>I almost hesitate to claim to be a grammarian at this point, but "rash
>intruding fool" that I am, here goes:
I love Carl's modesty. It befits me but not him.
Carl,
>(a) Is it really certain that IATAI in 5:29 is perfect tense? Granted that
>UBS4 accents it as I)/ATAI, I see no reason (if the original UNCIAL MSS
>were in fact unaccented) why it couldn't be the present tense I)A=TAI.
>Quite frankly I doubt this is a perfect tense and I really wonder whether
>the perfect tense of IAOMAI is attested. I don't find any perfect tense
>indicated in the older LS that I have here with me in North Carolina, but
>I'll check the more recent LSJ at the Perseus site later--I'm really very
>curious about this; I think it's present tense. Okay, I've checked the
>Perseus site: the older LSJ there cites Mk 5:29 I)/ATAI as pf. passive. So
>does BDF #311. Nevertheless, I'd like to see another instance of this
>before I'm convinced that this isn't a present tense. Also, it is normally
>"deponent": one doesn't find a form IA/W, although the aorist passive form
>IAQHNAI is well enough attested. Very curious. Now I wish I had access to
>the TLG disk: I would really like to know if I)/AMAI is attested anywhere
>else apart from Mk 5:29 as a perfect passive.
and Edwards Hobbs affirmed,
>I have to agree 100% on both major points Carl makes.
>
>(1) There is no such thing as a perfect passive of IAOMAI. The only
>instance of it cited by anyone is Mark 5:29, period. That N-A and GNT
>accent it as though it were perfect passive means nothing--they have no
>evidence from the early MSS. backing them up. (Is this another instance of
>imaginary forms created by modern editors, like our imaginary male name
>Junias?)
And that's why I prayed all night that someone else would answer these two
posts.
I checked through some Greek Testaments I have and found that the following
accent this as a perf. ind.
1.Souter, Nov. Test. 1910
2.Eberhard Nestle 1904
3.Tischendorf 1877
4.Westcott & Hort 1903
5.A. Merk 1964 printing
6.Hodges, Majority Text (which means that most of the Byz Minuscules that
have accents probably have the perf ind. I have checked copies that I have
of mss 33, 227, 1007, 1346 and they all have the accent for the perf ind.)
7.British & For. Bib Soc. 1916
8.Nestle's 21 ed. 1952 (My college NT)
9.Textus Receptus (see note by Hodges)
10. Modern Greek NT Bible Society of Athens hOTI IATREUQH APO THS MASTIGOS
(The Aorist here would be translated into English "Because she had been
healed from her malady." i.e. culminative aorist)
11. Modern Greek NT from UBS 1967 hOTI EQERAPEUQHKE APO THS MASTIGOS (This
is the alternative form in modern Greek for the perf. pass.)
I have checked several Latin editions
1.Merk, Latin "quia sanata esset a plaga" (The perfect in Latin)
2.Beza Latin 1949 printing "sanatum esse exeo flagello" (Perf Inf.)
3.Vulgate 1969 edition "sanata esset a plaga"
4.Wordsworth White 1982 BFBS ditto
5.Nestle's 1921 edutuib ditto
To an extent I would agree with Edward that the N-A and UBS accentuation
means nothing and also all the others that I have listed above. They are
all secondary, along with the following which opt for the perf. pass.;
1.Zerwick-Grosvenor,
2.Pierre Guillemette (Gk. NT Analyzed),
3.Rienecker & Rogers (Ling. Key),
4.A. Schmoller (Handkonkordanz),
5.Mounce, Analytical Lex, and
6.Band I of Vollstaendige Konkordanz which gives the accented forms whereas
the Computer Concordance does not and thus Band II of VK mistakenly gives
the figure of IATAI (2) when it should give I)/TAI (1) and I)A=TAI (1). A
paragraph in the introduction reads,
Akzente wurden nur gesetzt, wenn Woerter mit gleichem Buckstabenbestand
verschiedene morphologische Formen oder Wortarten bilden; Beispiel . . .
DRI/NOUSIN und KRINOU=SIN. . . .
7.Brooks & Winbery (Morphology of NT Gk) Appenix 1 [least & last]
While these are all secondary, there must be a reason for the near
unanimous verdict from these secondary sources. The only reason I can find
is that the context of Mark 5:29 demands it. How would you translate the
present middle in that verse? I can't come up with a translation that
makes sense except the perf. It fits like a glove. Perhaps the best
translation into a modern language I have seen is in Die Bibel, Die Gute
Nachricht in heutigem Deutsch, ". . . und sie spuerte, dass sie ihre
Plage los war." "and she sensed that she was free from her sickness."
Clearly the writer is thinking of an existing result.
Carl,
>(b) Why understand ISQI hUGIHS as if it were a passive imperative, "Be
>healed"? Isn't this a present imperative of EIMI with a predicate
>adjective? And if a PRESENT imperative, could it not be understood simply
>to mean "Continue (henceforth) being healthy"? And aren't you really trying
>to give it the force of an AORIST imperative, such as GENOU hUGIHS (which
>might more properly have the sense "Become healthy (right now)!"
Edward,
>(2) hUGIHS certainly does not mean "healed"; the closest English would
>be "whole" or "healthy." "Stay healthy!" would be my first choice for
>translation.
I agree here happily and wholeheartedly!
Carlton Winbery
LA College