Re: EIMI and Time (for the second year)
Apokrisis1@aol.com
Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT)
Greetings, Pete:
I said:
<<
That is the assumption. First we must define the "beginning" spoken of in
John 1:1. I believe it quite clearly refers to Genesis 1:1, which speaks of
the _physical_ creation. This is _after_ the creation immaterial beings,
such
as angels. So, time had begun prior to John's point of reference in 1:1, in
my view.>>
To which you replied:
[ But where do we get the idea from in Genesis 1:1 that anything has
happened
before this?]
We don't. But unless you believe the angels are eternal, then you would have
to say that they preexisted the creation referred to in Genesis 1:1, in a
temporal sense. Also, I believe that "beginning" is a time frame that is
either a reference strictly to all _physical_ creations, or it is a time
frame wherein creative activity took place prior to (notice God and the Logos
are "in" the beginning) and beyond the creation of the physical universe, but
ended with the creation of humankind. (cf. Matt. 19:4; Mr 10:6; 2Pe 3:4)
[ I agree that EN ARXHI is a reference to the BRSHT of Gen 1.1
but once again that simply says that it was in (the) beginning and that God
was there. It is an atemporal reference.]
True. But since it only says God was there, and also the Logos, and by
inference from Job 38:7 the angels, then that is all _we_ should say. Nothing
in the texts of Genesis 1:1 or John 1:1 indicate pretemporal existence. They
simply state that God and the Logos were in the "beginning," which in the
context of Genesis 1:1 and elsewhere, in my opinion, refers to the creation
of _physical_ things, and thus implies that the creation of spirit beings
took place prior to John's point of reference in 1:1.
Greg Stafford
University of Wisconsin