This is straying beyond b-greek, I know; I claim my "right of reply".
No, not forgetful, Jim. The beloved Apostle was nearer the cross than any of
the others. He picked up what the others missed. He wrote the fourth gospel
after the others, not to duplicate their efforts, but to fill in some gaps.
> But, given Ben's conflation of sources:
"At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established"
(2 Corinthians 13:1). We have four gospellers.
> 2- That Jesus would quote the beginning of the Psalm in Aramaic (which
> is of course perfectly possible) and then at death decided to quote in
> Greek the last of the Psalm.
I won't say "Jim forgets", just that Jim did not mention that the quotation
of Psalm 22:1 is more of an allusion than a quotation. As reported in the
accounts of Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34, this Saying from the Cross is
neither directly from the Hebrew MT, nor from the Aramaic Targum. It's as
if Jesus deliberately disguised his quotation, so as not to "cast pearls
before swine". The faithful recognised the allusion afterwards, even if not
immediately at the time. They were in a state of trauma, to say the least.
Likewise the TETELESTAI was not a "cry of capitulation", but a disguised
further allusion to Psalm 22, this time to its last verse, verse 31. It was
a victory cry, as in Psalm 22:31. "A seed" HAS "come", and HAS declared
"His righteousness to a people that shall be [are now] born, that *He has
done* [this]". KiY `aSaH, TETELESTAI indeed!
> Now, to the question, why would Jesus quote a Psalm (which is not taken as
> a psalm by the crowd) in Aramaic and switch to Greek if he wished to make
> a point? Further, if ANY of the Gospels had wished to put these words in
> combination into Jesus mouth, they could have. But the Synoptics do not
> have any form of the verb telew; and John has no cry of dereliction! The
> combination of these two, then, exists only in Ben's imagination and perhaps
> the Diatessaron.
The "cry of dereliction" is the quotation of/allusion to Psalm 22 we are
discussing. Theologians call it the "cry of dereliction", not the Gospel
writers. The "combination of the two" exists in the Seven Last Words.
The Diatessaron? that only exists in Zahn's imagination, unless I am missing
something. TETELESTAI is fairly obviously a Greek *translation* of Christ's
utterance, almost certainly in Aramaic/Hebrew.
The Synoptists do record Jesus crying with a loud voice (Matthew 27:50, Mark
15:37, Luke 23:46); they omit to quote the actual cry, which John supplies.
After the TETELESTAI cry of victory, Jesus quietly prays the words of Psalm
31:5a (the Jewish bedtime prayer) and expires.
Some affect not to believe in miracles, because they are against science,
and therefore impossible. Some affect not to believe in the possiblity of
future prophecy, and that "prophecies" are either coincidental, or vaticinia
post eventum. David wrote Psalm 22 about a millennium before it happened,
and was literally fulfilled in great detail at Calvary. As Jesus said to
the walkers to Emmaus, "O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the
prophets have spoken..." (Luke 24:25). How could they have missed something
so obvious? Jesus quite often went seemingly out of his way, "that the
Scripture might be fulfilled, which said....".
> What this suggests is that the whole complex is a literary construct, in
> greek, by the author of the Gospel, without any trace of historical support.
> Or, to put it simply, the final cry (in John, remember), is a literary
> device, not an ipsissima verba Jesu.
It is evident from John 20:30-31 and 21:25 that the writer used the scissors
as well as the quill when recording his Gospel for posterity. Like the
speeches of Henry in Shakespeare's /Henry V/, these words are not ipsissima
verba Jesu, EXCEPT where the Aramaic is elaborately transcribed instead of
translated: e.g. "TALIQA KOUM" (Mark 5:41). Peter was Mark's source; Peter
was so impressed that he repeated the formula "TABITHA, ANASTHQI" with
Tabitha/Dorcas (Acts 9:40). I would insist that the Seven Words from the
Cross, like "dying declarations" and "famous last words" generally, ARE
ipsissima verba Jesu.
Thsnk you, Jim. I rest my case.
Ben
-- Revd Ben Crick, BA CF <ben.crick@argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm