In Rom. 4, 12, do the two articles 'tois', coordinated by 'alla kai' refer to the same group/persons (i.e. the Jews who are circumcised and who have the faith that Abraham had...), or to two different groups, according to most grammars? Working on that passage with my students, I saw that the understanding of the passage remained difficult. Many thanks for comments. Bernard Coulie Universite catholique de Louvain Oriental Institute