[Prev][Next][Index][Thread]
b-greek-digest V1 #73
b-greek-digest Thursday, 11 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 073
In this issue:
Humor: St. Paul's Chain Letter
Re: L. William Countryman's beginning Greek text
Peter/Cephas
Re: Peter/Cephas
[none]
Messengers bearing Greeks
Re: Messengers bearing Greeks
Re: Peter/Cephas
Back to the mystery square
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Carlson <scc@reston.icl.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Humor: St. Paul's Chain Letter
>Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny
>From: Johlt@aol.com
>Subject: The Chain Letter of St. Paul
>
>Received this as a mailing from the Old Catholic mailing list:
>
>THE CHAIN LETTER OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE CORINTHIANS
>_________________________________________________________________
>
> The Chain Letter of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians WITH CHARITY
> ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE This epistle comes to you from Philippi. Grace
> be to you and peace. Spiritual gifts will be delivered unto you within
> four days of receiving this letter--providing you in turn send it on.
>
> 2. This is no joke. Send copies to whomsoever among the gentiles or
> superstituous peoples of other denominations you would comfort in all
> their tribulation. Do not send material things. Charity vaunteth not
> itself, is not puffed up.
>
> 3. While visiting the Household of Stephanas, a Macedonian proconsul
> received the epistle and was greeted by his brethren by a holy kiss.
> But he broke the chain, and now he is become as sounding brass or a
> tinkling cymbal.
>
> 4. Gaius bestowed all his goods to feed the poor, and gave his body to
> be burned, but it profited him nothing. He failed to circulate the
> letter. However, before his death, he received the unleavened bread of
> sincerity and truth.
>
> 5. Do note the following: Crispius had the gift of prophecy, and
> understood all mysteries, and all knowledge, and had all faith, so
> that he could remove mountains. But he forgot that the epistle had to
> leave his hands within 96 hours, and now he is nothing.
>
> 6. In A.D. 37, the epistle was received by a young Galatian woman who
> put it aside to copy and send out later. She was plagued by various
> problems: thrice she was beaten with rods, once she was stoned, and
> thrice suffered shipwreck. On the last day of these occasions, she
> spent a night and day in the deep. Finally, she copied the letter. A
> trumpet sounded, and she was raised incorruptible.
>
> 7. Remember: Believeth all things, hopeth all things. The chain never
> faileth.
>
> St. Paul
>
>--
>Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to funny@clari.net.
>Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply.
>
>Send comments meant for the moderator to funny-request@clari.net. Jokes sent
>to this address will be ignored.
- --
Stephen Carlson : Poetry speaks of aspirations, : ICL, Inc.
scc@reston.icl.com : and songs chant the words. : 11490 Commerce Park Dr.
(703) 648-3330 : Shujing 2:35 : Reston, VA 22091 USA
------------------------------
From: David Housholder <73423.2015@compuserve.com>
Date: 10 Jan 96 13:38:47 EST
Subject: Re: L. William Countryman's beginning Greek text
>>The book is THE NEW TESTAMENT IS IN GREEK (Eerdmans 1993).
. . . .
>>It looks like a good approach, but I have not taught it and so can't be
>>sure. Anyone out there who has tried it, so we may benefit from your
>>experience?
Tom,
I have not used the book directly, but included it in the materials used in New
Testament Greek at Union Biblical Seminary, India. The students there were doing
a one-semester course (based on an abridged Wehnam) and were then going
immediately into the exegesis of the Synoptic Gospels. Because I taught the
exegesis in the final 10 weeks of the second semester, leaving the first 6 to 7
weeks open, we introduced an "Introduction to Exegesis" during those weeks. We
used Countryman and another resource (the name eludes me: It's an 8.5 X 11"
workbook taking the student through 1 John and introducing the use of various
library resources in the process. Anyone recognize that? I think its out of
print).
Countryman is an excellent followup to a basic course. It reviews the
introductory materials and presents them in context of an actual study of text.
It is intended as an introductory course. I think it could be used effectively
in that way. Keep in mind that it proceeds on an inductive basis. And it will
work effectively only if the instructor allows it to be approached on that
basis. The temptation to an instructor is to say, "Your book has introduced the
use of the third person plural of this verb; here are all the other possible
forms."
- --Dave--
1:35 PM EDT on Wednesday, January 10, 1996
------------------------------
From: Eric Weiss <eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 14:17:30 EST
Subject: Peter/Cephas
I came across Greg Doudna's (gdoudna@ednet1.osl.or.gov)
December 1994 posting on "Cephas" on the B-Greek archives but
could not find the postings he responded to or any further
comments on this subject. Did any further developments or
conversations occur? (This apparently is no longer a valid
e-mail address for Greg, so I can't write him direct.)
As I was reading through Galatians I noticed this striking shift
of Paul's between "Cephas" and "Peter" and began to have similar
(heretical? disturbing?) thoughts, but I haven't been able to
find any good answers.
While reading Eusebius' HISTORY OF THE CHURCH I found (I can't
remember the reference) that in their efforts to determine who
some of the other apostles were (the 70, etc.), at least one
person or church father Eusebius references said the "Cephas"
Paul mentions in Galatians was one of these other apostles. This
could support the idea that the early church did not equate Peter
with Cephas.
Again, were there any further developments or background
information on this issue?
Thanks for any response you can give me. (I'm not currently on
the b-greek list, so please cc: any responses to me directly.)
Eric Weiss
eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov
------------------------------
From: Carlton Winbery <winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:29:29 +0400
Subject: Re: Peter/Cephas
>I came across Greg Doudna's (gdoudna@ednet1.osl.or.gov)
>December 1994 posting on "Cephas" on the B-Greek archives but
>could not find the postings he responded to or any further
>comments on this subject. Did any further developments or
>conversations occur? (This apparently is no longer a valid
>e-mail address for Greg, so I can't write him direct.)
>
>As I was reading through Galatians I noticed this striking shift
>of Paul's between "Cephas" and "Peter" and began to have similar
>(heretical? disturbing?) thoughts, but I haven't been able to
>find any good answers.
>
>While reading Eusebius' HISTORY OF THE CHURCH I found (I can't
>remember the reference) that in their efforts to determine who
>some of the other apostles were (the 70, etc.), at least one
>person or church father Eusebius references said the "Cephas"
>Paul mentions in Galatians was one of these other apostles. This
>could support the idea that the early church did not equate Peter
>with Cephas.
>
Bart Ehrman wrote an article recently concerning this question specifically
the identity of Cephas in Galatians. I can't at the moment where or when
it was published. I am not in my office so that I can check it. Bart, I
think, is still on this list.
Carlton L. Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College, Pineville, La
winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net
------------------------------
From: "Dr. Kenneth Johnson" <kjohnson@tfs.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:38:08 -0600
Subject: [none]
>Received this as a mailing from the Old Catholic mailing list:
>
>THE CHAIN LETTER OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE CORINTHIANS
>_________________________________________________________________
>
> The Chain Letter of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians WITH CHARITY
> ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE This epistle comes to you from Philippi. Grace
> be to you and peace. Spiritual gifts will be delivered unto you within
> four days of receiving this letter--providing you in turn send it on.
>
> 2. This is no joke. Send copies to whomsoever among the gentiles or
> superstituous peoples of other denominations you would comfort in all
> their tribulation. Do not send material things. Charity vaunteth not
> itself, is not puffed up.
>
> 3. While visiting the Household of Stephanas, a Macedonian proconsul
> received the epistle and was greeted by his brethren by a holy kiss.
> But he broke the chain, and now he is become as sounding brass or a
> tinkling cymbal.
>
> 4. Gaius bestowed all his goods to feed the poor, and gave his body to
> be burned, but it profited him nothing. He failed to circulate the
> letter. However, before his death, he received the unleavened bread of
> sincerity and truth.
>
> 5. Do note the following: Crispius had the gift of prophecy, and
> understood all mysteries, and all knowledge, and had all faith, so
> that he could remove mountains. But he forgot that the epistle had to
> leave his hands within 96 hours, and now he is nothing.
>
> 6. In A.D. 37, the epistle was received by a young Galatian woman who
> put it aside to copy and send out later. She was plagued by various
> problems: thrice she was beaten with rods, once she was stoned, and
> thrice suffered shipwreck. On the last day of these occasions, she
> spent a night and day in the deep. Finally, she copied the letter. A
> trumpet sounded, and she was raised incorruptible.
>
> 7. Remember: Believeth all things, hopeth all things. The chain never
> faileth.
>
> St. Paul
>
------------------------------
From: Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:25:18 -0600
Subject: Messengers bearing Greeks
Things seem a little slow on the list, so perhaps I can slip in some
elementary questions.
1. What is the reason/justification for not translating "angelos" as
messenger ?
2. What is the reason/justification for translating "angel of Satan" as
"messenger of Satan" (C2 12:7) ?
Regards,
Will
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:26:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Messengers bearing Greeks
On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Will Wagers wrote:
> Things seem a little slow on the list, so perhaps I can slip in some
> elementary questions.
>
> 1. What is the reason/justification for not translating "angelos" as
> messenger ?
>
> 2. What is the reason/justification for translating "angel of Satan" as
> "messenger of Satan" (C2 12:7) ?
The answer to both questions probably has to do with the semantic
range of the term AGGELOS had in NT Greek. It also relates to the way we
express in English different concepts that were covered by that Greek
term. We normally don't use the word "angel" to refer to Satan's
messengers, because, for us, "angel" has the default meaning "(holy)
angel."
For the Greek speaker of NT times, on the other hand, AGGELOS was
a broad term that could be used in referring to practically any kind of
general messenger, either human or spiritual. New Testament Greek may
also have been influenced by the Hebrew usage of a similar term. (I
think the word is MAL'AK.) The latter has a similar semantic range as
does AGGELOS. The TDNT would be the place to look for references in this
regard.
David L. Moore Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida of the Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Department of Education
http://members.aol.com/dvdmoore
------------------------------
From: Bart Ehrman <behrman@email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:34:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Peter/Cephas
As Carlton Winberry has pointed out, I have a (fairly full) article
devoted to this question, in which I deal not only with the Galatians
passage but with all the other NT evidence, and every reference to the
matter that I could dig out of ecclesiastical writers from the first
eight centuries or so (the latter authors, of course, can't be construed
as *evidence* for either the identification of or distinction between
Cephas and Peter). I end up concluding, on the basis of Paul, the only
ancient author of whom we can say with some certainty that he actually
*knew* Cephas (in contrast, e.g., to the author of the Fourth Gospel, who
was writing decades after all the principal parties were dead), that
Cephas and Peter were probably different persons. It's a bit crazy, but
I still think it's probably right.
The article is "Cephas and Peter," _Journal of Biblical Literature_
109 (1990) 463-74.
- -- Bart D. Ehrman, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Eric Weiss wrote:
> I came across Greg Doudna's (gdoudna@ednet1.osl.or.gov)
> December 1994 posting on "Cephas" on the B-Greek archives but
> could not find the postings he responded to or any further
> comments on this subject. Did any further developments or
> conversations occur? (This apparently is no longer a valid
> e-mail address for Greg, so I can't write him direct.)
>
> As I was reading through Galatians I noticed this striking shift
> of Paul's between "Cephas" and "Peter" and began to have similar
> (heretical? disturbing?) thoughts, but I haven't been able to
> find any good answers.
>
> While reading Eusebius' HISTORY OF THE CHURCH I found (I can't
> remember the reference) that in their efforts to determine who
> some of the other apostles were (the 70, etc.), at least one
> person or church father Eusebius references said the "Cephas"
> Paul mentions in Galatians was one of these other apostles. This
> could support the idea that the early church did not equate Peter
> with Cephas.
>
> Again, were there any further developments or background
> information on this issue?
>
> Thanks for any response you can give me. (I'm not currently on
> the b-greek list, so please cc: any responses to me directly.)
>
> Eric Weiss
> eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov
>
------------------------------
From: "Clifford M. Kuehne" <ckuehne@sawdust.cvfn.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:43:18 -0600
Subject: Back to the mystery square
When I subscribed to B-Greek, several messages about the "mystery square"
had already appeared. I hope that I am not repeating what someone else has
already said.
A colleague of mine is quite sure that there is no real mystery about this
word square:
SATOR
AREPO
TENET
OPERA
ROTAS
The Latin word "SATOR" has the basic meaning "seeder" or "planter." In
theological parlance, the term refers to the "Creator." The second word must
be read backwards: OPERA--which means "works" or "the works." The third, and
final, word is TENET, wnich can be rendered "has" or "possesses." These
three words are assembled in an acrostic, with two of them spelled both
forwards and backwards, so as to achieve the interesting symmetry found in
the square.
The meaning of the words would be something to this effect: "The Creator
has/possesses the works," that is, the works spoken of are those of the
Creator Himself. This motto, in the form of the word square, would serve as
an appropriate inscription on something like a cornerstone of a
building--giving all glory to the Creator for the works which have been
accomplished.
Clifford M. Kuehne
Immanuel Lutheran College
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #73
****************************
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
To unsubscribe from this list write
majordomo@virginia.edu
with "unsubscribe b-greek-digest" as your message content. For other
automated services write to the above address with the message content
"help".
For further information, you can write the owner of the list at
owner-b-greek@virginia.edu
You can send mail to the entire list via the address:
b-greek@virginia.edu