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b-greek-digest V1 #139
b-greek-digest Friday, 8 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 139
In this issue:
Re: dynamic words
funk's beginning grammar
Re: dynamic words
Re: funk's beginning grammar
Re: funk's beginning grammar
RE: MIAS GUNAIKOS ANDRA
Re: dynamic words
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:15:59 -0600
Subject: Re: dynamic words
On 3/6/96, Gary S. Shogren wrote:
> If I understand your criteria rightly, KATALAMBANW is a prime example - does
> it mean "comprehendeth it not (KJV)" in John 1:5 or "did not overcome it"?
> What I find interesting is that both make very good sense in the immediate
> context, and fairly decent sense in the context of Johannine theological
> vocab. I seem to recall that Carson lists the verse in Exegetical
> Fallacies, reminding us not to try to work BOTH meanings into a single
> context unless there's evidence of a play on words. By the way - Exegetical
> Fallacies is shortly to be re-released in an updated form.
I was going to mention KATALAMBANW also, but I believe that in the KJV
"comprehendeth" doesn't mean "understands" but "overcomes"--Elizabethan
sense of the word.Nevertheless, "understands" is possible because
KATALAMBANW is the Stoic word for "grasp, understand."
I believe that "comprehend" in our sense is a relatively recent usage of
the verb.
Incidentally,Carlton, isn't the noun from hAIREW that you're referring to
hAIRESIS with an Epsilon rather than hAIRHSIS with an Eta?
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: perry.stepp@chrysalis.org
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 10:50:57 -0600
Subject: funk's beginning grammar
Hello, all.
Has anyone on the list used Funk's *Beginning/Intermediate Grammar of
Hellenistic Greek*? For a Ph.D. seminar, I recently compared several grammars.
I concluded that, among the grammars I reviewed, Machen's was the best of
"traditional" grammars, whatever that means. But I was really at a loss when
perusing Funk's grammar. Many of the things Funk does make a great deal of
sense to me. So I'm wondering:
If you have taught students using Funk's grammar: how was it? how many
semesters have you used it? were students able to learn to read Greek using the
material *as* *Funk* *presents* *it*, or did you have to juggle the order,
supplement in any way, etc.? and how did the students do in more advanced Greek
studies?
If you were taught using Funk's grammar, besides the above: did you have much
trouble using more traditional materials (Robertson's big grammar, Moule's
*Idiom Book*, etc.)? do you feel that you have a greater facility with NT Greek
than you would have if taught with traditional methods? would you use Funk's
grammar to teach your own students?
Thanks for the help. Grace and peace,
Perry L. Stepp, Baylor University
**************************************************************************
I'm addicted to placebos. I can quit any time I want to,
but why?
--Steven Wright
**************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Carlton L. Winbery" <winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:06:27 +0400
Subject: Re: dynamic words
Carl, you are right, the epsilon is not lengthened.
>Incidentally,Carlton, isn't the noun from hAIREW that you're referring to
>hAIRESIS with an Epsilon rather than hAIRHSIS with an Eta?
>
Carlton
END
Carlton L. Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College, Pineville, La
winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net
winbery@andria.lacollege.edu
------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:14:36 -0600
Subject: Re: funk's beginning grammar
On 3/7/96, perry.stepp@chrysalis.org wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> Has anyone on the list used Funk's *Beginning/Intermediate Grammar of
> Hellenistic Greek*? For a Ph.D. seminar, I recently compared several
>grammars.
> I concluded that, among the grammars I reviewed, Machen's was the best of
> "traditional" grammars, whatever that means. But I was really at a loss when
> perusing Funk's grammar. Many of the things Funk does make a great deal of
> sense to me. So I'm wondering:
>
> If you have taught students using Funk's grammar: how was it? how many
> semesters have you used it? were students able to learn to read Greek
>using the
> material *as* *Funk* *presents* *it*, or did you have to juggle the order,
> supplement in any way, etc.? and how did the students do in more advanced
>Greek
> studies?
>
> If you were taught using Funk's grammar, besides the above: did you have much
> trouble using more traditional materials (Robertson's big grammar, Moule's
> *Idiom Book*, etc.)? do you feel that you have a greater facility with NT
>Greek
> than you would have if taught with traditional methods? would you use Funk's
> grammar to teach your own students?
I am glad to see this question being addressed; I have mentioned this work
previously but heard nothing more about it on the list. I WOULD use this
book if it were in print and I were teaching Koine' more generally (here we
ask our undergraduates who want Koine' normally to do a year of Attic after
which I give them a tutorial in Koine'); I like its organization very much
indeed and I would be delighted if the replacement for BDF should be
organized with as rational an approach to the language's structure. There
may well be many who wish Funk were giving his attention to revising this
book rather than to the Jesus Seminar.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: "Carlton L. Winbery" <winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:08:37 +0400
Subject: Re: funk's beginning grammar
Perry Stepp wrote;
>Has anyone on the list used Funk's *Beginning/Intermediate Grammar of
>Hellenistic Greek*? For a Ph.D. seminar, I recently compared several grammars.
> I concluded that, among the grammars I reviewed, Machen's was the best of
>"traditional" grammars, whatever that means. But I was really at a loss when
>perusing Funk's grammar. Many of the things Funk does make a great deal of
>sense to me. So I'm wondering:
>
>If you have taught students using Funk's grammar: how was it? how many
>semesters have you used it? were students able to learn to read Greek using the
>material *as* *Funk* *presents* *it*, or did you have to juggle the order,
>supplement in any way, etc.? and how did the students do in more advanced Greek
>studies?
>
>If you were taught using Funk's grammar, besides the above: did you have much
>trouble using more traditional materials (Robertson's big grammar, Moule's
>*Idiom Book*, etc.)? do you feel that you have a greater facility with NT Greek
>than you would have if taught with traditional methods? would you use Funk's
>grammar to teach your own students?
>
Perry, when I was at NO Baptist Seminary, one of my colleagues used vol I
of Funk for beginner students. He used the work book that goes with it. I
did not teach beginner students at the time but I would take students from
other classes for the 2nd semester for a quick review of grammar and the
latter half syntax. We had students in the 2nd semester who had at least a
year of Greek in college and put them together with students who had a
semester at Seminary. That's where James Brooks and I developed the
outline for our Morphology. As I recall the students who had started with
Funk did very well. I cannot how many were lost in that first semester,
but the students who made it to me performed very well in the review and in
syntax.
Carlton L. Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College, Pineville, La
winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net
winbery@andria.lacollege.edu
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:16:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: MIAS GUNAIKOS ANDRA
"A. Brent Hudson" <abhudson@wchat.on.ca> wrote:
>> In considering the expression MIAS GUNAIKOS ANDRA (Tim. 3:2) and
>>trying to figure just what it means, I did a search for hEIS with a
>>genitive noun and an additional noun. The only other examples that were
>>similar in construction to the expression above were in the Pastorals
>>(i.e. I Tim. 3:2, 12; 5:9 and Titus 1:6). All are in reference to
>>candidates for posts of special responsibility or special consideration in
>>the church, and all apparently have reference to the person's matrimonial
>>relationships.
[material omitted]
>> It would be interesting to know if any of the list members is
>>aware of constructions similar to this phrase with the number hEIS in
>>writings outside of the NT, as their context might shed additional light
>>on the meaning here in the Pastorals.
>There is hENOS ARTOU GUNH in Prov. 6:26.
>A. Brent Hudson
Thanks for your answer, Brent; but both the Greek and the Hebrew
seem to indicate that GUNH in Prov. 6:26 goes with the second foot of the
verse rather than the first, so the example isn't really a similar
construction.
David L. Moore Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida of the Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Department of Education
http://members.aol.com/dvdmoore
------------------------------
From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:52:53 -0500
Subject: Re: dynamic words
>
> I was wondering if I could solicit submittals of everyone's favorite
>Greek words which meet the criteria of having a notoriously context
>sensitive definition. As an example I will present my own weak example.
> The RSV translates the Greek word HNTHY(KS)HIS (I used 'KS' in place of
>xsi, not knowing which latin to use...) in 1st Timothy 2:1 as
>"intercessions" but it translates the same word in 1st Timothy 4:4 as
>"thanksgiving." Clearly "intercessions" is not equal to "thanksgiving."
> Now I know that you folks out there can think of better examples than
>the one I have just presented, so if you offer them I will be much
>appreciative. (yes, there is a point to this excersize - I'm not doing
>this to waste everyone's time).
>
>Brent Arias
>University of New Mexico
Let me suggest one or two more. 1. NOMOS In classical Greek it means
custom, law, and pasture. In the NT it usually means Torah, or more
generically, law [see for example Rom 3:27. the NOMOS PISTEWS]. NOMOS in
the sense of pasture does not occur in the NT, but the related feminine
NOMH does [2 Tim 2:17]. The term derives from the stem *NEM-, fouind in the
verb NEMW, which means "to distribute." You can work out how it comes to
such varied meanings from the fundamental sense of the root.
Another such word where context determines meaning is LOGOS: Argument,
account (in financial matters), report, explanation, etc. It never means
"word" in the sense of a discrete term, e.g. a dictionary entry. The term
in ancient philosophy comes to be a power in history [LOGOS DIA PANTWM
FOITWN in Stoicism, for example]. Related to this is the verb LEGW, which
means both to speak and to choose in clasical Greek. Cf. EKLEGEIN, to
select, EKLOGH, etc.
When you get the lost list, post if for all of us to peruse.
Peace, Ed Krentz
Edgar Krentz, New Testament
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
1100 East 55th Street
Chicago, IL 60615
Tel.: 312-256-0752; (H) 312-947-8105
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #139
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