From: DBWILLIS@aol.com
Date: Thu Aug 17 1995 - 23:25:05 EDT
David Willis here responding to Rod Decker,
RD<<. (There would have to be some
>other indication in the context to make them temporal, not just the pres.
>tense,
...
DW>I think you have that "other indication" in the use of the adverb "once"
in
>6:4.
RD<<I'm not sure how you think that "once" (= hapax) in v. 4 affects the
temporal nature of the ptcp. in v.6. Could you be more explicit?>>
I simply was pointing out (as you requested) something else in the context
that would indicate that a a juxtaposition of the time (in relation to the
leading verb, ~adunaton~"it is impossible") of the participles was what was
intended rather than a causal relationship. To show a temporal adverb is
used in the series of aorist participles which are followed by present
participles would be further evidence (besides the shift to the present
participle) that there was intended a temporal significance by this shift.
Although I did not (and do not) choose to dispute this point in our language
forum (as opposed to a doctrinal forum), I do not accept your
"non-soteriological" explanation for "falling away." I take the words to
mean (as they seem to mean when understood in their most natural
interpretation) that a person who is once spiritually saved, can indeed
become spiritually lost.
<<To make it
temporal would be like saying that you can't stop pouring water while
you're pouring water. I.e., 'you can't stop falling away while you're
falling away.' A temporal explanation sounds good at first glance, but it
is tautological. If I'm missing something as to how 'once' in v. 4 changes
this, please clue me in.>>
While it is true that many of these participles are only different terms to
express the same concept of "falling away", I don't accept that this temporal
understanding is a mere tautology. I would say that it is not a tautology to
say of someone, "once you have fallen into the water, it is impossible to dry
off, so long as you are remaining in the water." This seems quite similar
to what is expressed here. At least in my opinion. Thanks for the reply.
David Willis
DBWILLIS@aol.com
6728 Silver Tree Dr.
Indianapolis, IN 46236
(317) 823-4858
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