From: Domenico LEMBO (lembodo@ds.cised.unina.it)
Date: Sat Feb 17 1996 - 09:35:02 EST
On 02/15/96 Michael Holmes wrote:
>Yesterday I was messing around with Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 1.8.1 [= ref in
>AnteNicene Fathers; TLG ref = 1.1.15], and am curious to see what you
>might make of a few phrases. To phrase things in terms of Carl Conrad's
>excellent recent comments, I think (hope?) I get the gist of the Greek,
>but coming up with a satisfactory ET is another matter.
"They attempt to adapt [PROSARMOZEIN] things (either parables of the Lord,
or sayings of the prophets, or words of the apostles) to their own sayings,
in order that their scheme might not seem to be lacking in support: THN MEN
TACIN KAI TON hEIRMON TWN GRAFWN hUPERBAINONTES, KAI, hOSON EF' hEAUTOIS,
LUONTES TA MELH THS ALHQEIAS. METAFEROUSI DE KAI METAPLATTOUSI, KAI ALLO EC
ALLOU POIOUNTES ECAPATWSI POLLOUS THi TWN EFARMOZOMENWN KURIAKWN LOGIWN
KAKOSUNQETWi SOFIAi. ... [several lines of text] ... EPEITA RhHMATA KAI
LECEIS KAI PARABOLAS hOQEN KAI POQEN APOSPWNTES, EFARMOZEIN BOULONTAI TOIS
MUQOIS AUTWN (v.l., hEAUTWN) TA LOGIA TOU QEOU.
Key phrases I'm interested in (which I'll number for ease of reference):
1) how much difference in meaning is there between TACIN ("order") and
hEIRMON ("sequence"? "connection"?)
2) LUONTES TA MELH THS ALHQEIAS: "destroying the integrity of the truth"?
3) METAFEROUSI DE KAI METAPLATTOUSI: roughly "they change and they
counterfeit;" would it be appropriate to take METAFEROUSI as "interpret
metaphorically" in this context?
4) THi TWN EFARMOZOMENWN KURIAKWN LOGIWN KAKOSUNQETWi SOFIAi: KAKOSUNQETWi,
acc. to LSJ (p. 863), is a rhetorical term, "ill-composed," "ill put
together," neither of which seems to fit too well as a modifier of SOFIAi,
which in this context =? For the phrase, perhaps something like "their
poorly-organized understanding of the adapted sayings of the Lord"?
5) hOQEN KAI POQEN a) what does the combo mean; I didn't notice an example
of the combo in LSJ, which makes them sound like synonyms; b) does the
combo modify what precedes or follows it? (APOSPAW here = "take out of
context"?)
Thanks,
Mike Holmes
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I do not have Irenaeus in front of me. However, since You quote a large
sequence, maybe there is enough material for some comments.
>1) how much difference in meaning is there between TACIN ("order") and
>hEIRMON ("sequence"? "connection"?)
HEIRMOS only says that in a certain discourse those given words (sentences,
textual units...) follow each other, TAXIS says that there is a plan. But,
what is more, this is a hendyadis. Irenaeus' point is that those words
(sentences, textual units...) are not to be regarded as a mere sequence:
they are a well-planned sequence, they are a whole discourse. Hence they
may not be taken out of contextx. N.B. The Greek for "composition" is
SYNTAXIS.
======================================
>2) LUONTES TA MELH THS ALHQEIAS: "destroying the integrity of the truth"?
Yes. Or rather: "upsetting and destroying the arrangement (hence the
meaning) of the (Holy, True) Discourse as a whole". The "disiecta membra"
are not the whole "corpus". This applies to a discourse as much as to a
biological whole.
======================================
>3) METAFEROUSI DE KAI METAPLATTOUSI: roughly "they change and they
>counterfeit;" would it be appropriate to take METAFEROUSI as "interpret
>metaphorically" in this context?
In *both* verbs there is a strongly negative point. "They make an
alteration and a counterfeit (of the real meaning)"
======================================
>4) THi TWN EFARMOZOMENWN KURIAKWN LOGIWN KAKOSUNQETWi SOFIAi:
>KAKOSUNQETWi, acc. to LSJ (p. 863), is a rhetorical term, "ill-composed,"
>"ill put together," neither of which seems to fit too well as a modifier
>of SOFIAi, which in this context =? For the phrase, perhaps something like
>"their poorly-organized understanding of the adapted sayings of the Lord"?
>
Here SOPHIA means, more or less, "skill". The KAKOSUNQETOS SOPHIA is the
"ill-conceived (damned cunning) rhetorical skill", that one that enables to
misuse the sayings of the Lord, violating their original arrangement and
spirit and transforming them into a new (inappropriate) discourse. N.B
Qualifying the very rhetorical skill as KAKOSUNQETOS, i.e. "ill-conceived",
is a hypallage. Properly speaking, KAKOSUNQETOS is the discourse itself.
On the other hand, this is not the rhetorical skill as such, i.e. a mere
faculty. It is rather the skill that shows and is embedded in the discourse
of Scripture as badly re-arranged and re-interpreted: i.e. in the
EPHARMOZOMENOI KURIAKOI LOGIOI. So KAKOSUNQETOS is not altogether a
hypallage. Being so is a property of te new (abominable) discourse.
======================================
>5) hOQEN KAI POQEN a) what does the combo mean; I didn't notice an example
>of the combo in LSJ, which makes them sound like synonyms; b) does the
>combo modify what precedes or follows it? (APOSPAW here = "take out of
>context"?)
Well, hOQEN is relative, POQEN is indefinite and modifyies hOQEN: "wherever
they come from".
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My two cents
D. Lembo
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Domenico LEMBO Universita' di Napoli
lembodo@ds.cised.unina.it
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