From: Paul S. Dixon (dixonps@juno.com)
Date: Sun Jul 27 1997 - 00:02:51 EDT
Jonathan and Carl only:
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 06:49:08 -0400 Jonathan Robie
<jwrobie@mindspring.com> writes:
>At 04:39 AM 7/26/97 EDT, Paul S. Dixon wrote:
>
>>You asked about verses 19-20 and how they fit in. Is there a problem
>>with taking them as a reiteration (PALIN LEGW hUMIN) of His
>instruction
>>regarding the disciplinary process of verses 15-18? The similarities
>are
>>striking (compare PARALABE META SOU ETI hENA H DUO [v. 16] and DUO
>[v.
>>19] and DUO H TREIS [ v. 20]. If so, then the purpose of verses
>19-20
>>seem to be a further encouragement to carry through with the
>restorative
>>discipline of the sinning brother, since the Father will certainly do
>His
>>part and they can be assured Christ will be with them.
>
>There is definitely a continuation of the discussion of thought with
>the
>"one or two", "two" and "two or three" , and your interpretation makes
>sense
>to me in general. I tend to be leaning that way myself right now, but
>I'm
>having difficulties reconciling the certainty of verses 18 - 19, which
>would
>seem to indicate that we have the authority to bring every single
>person to
>repentence, with verse 17, which is clear about what to do if someone
>does
>not repent.
>
>
>PALIN GRAFEI Paul S. Dixon [regarding the overall context in chapter
>18]:
>
>>A perfectly cogent argument could be raised along these lines: the
>main
>>thought Christ wanted to communicate in this chapter is the necessity
>of
>>exercising loving and restorative discipline of the wayward brother.
>The
>>Parable of the Lost Sheep illustrates that it is not the desire of
>the
>>Father that any of His sheep (true sons) should perish. Every effort
>>should be taken to that end. Thus, we must be diligent in rebuking a
>>brother when he sins against us (vv. 15-18). This is the God
>appointed
>>means by which we are used in the restorative process.
>
>I agree that this is the overall view of the chapter, and I think this
>is a
>good summary, though I disagree with the introduction of the concept
>of
>"true sons", as I will discuss below.
>
>hOUTOS GEGRAPTAI DIA TOU Paul Dixon:
>
>>Of course, it is possible that a so-called brother is not really a
>>brother at all. This then would be the process by which such
>hypocrites
>>can be identified by the church. The result is a purification
>process
>>for the church (cf 1 Cor 5).
>
>I am uncomfortable with the introduction of terms like "true sons" and
>"so-called brother", which do not occur in the original text, and
>which seem
>to contradict verses 2-8 of the chapter, which imply that these little
>children who have humbled themselves and entered the kingdom can still
>stumble:
Jonathan:
The so-called brother concept is biblical (1 Cor 5:11). In the Gospel of
Matthew Christ repeatedly addresses the phenomenon of those who consider
themselves to be children or sons of God, but who give away their
hypocrisy by their unrepentant and disobedient lifestyle (cf. esp. Mt
7:15-23; 5:20ff; 12:30ff, etc.). Not everyone who says unto Him, "Lord,
Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of God
and does not practice lawlessness (Mt 7:15ff). 1 Jn 3:9 says that no one
who is born of God practices sin and that he cannot practice sin because
God's seed abides in him. This does not say he cannot ever sin, but that
he cannot be characterized by sin (present tense Greek). It necessarily
follows from this that if a man is characterized by sin, then he is not
born of God. The natural question then is, what is meant by habitual
sin?
It is in this context that Mt 18:15-18 takes on new light (hopefully).
If a sinning brother, or one who professes to be a brother, refuses to
repent of his sin after three levels of warning and rebuke, then he
should be considered to be persisting in sin and so gives away his true
nature. The church, then, is to regard him as an unregenerate. But,
this does not mean he can never be saved. After all, this was the very
reason why Paul gave up the sinning "brother" to Satan, in order that
his spirit might be saved, though his body be destroyed (1 Cor 5).
Paul Dixon
>
>18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, 3
>and
>said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children,
>you
>will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself
>like
>this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 "Whoever
>receives one such child in my name receives me; 6 but whoever causes
>one
>of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for
>him to
>have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in
>the
>depth of the sea. 7 "Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it
>is
>necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the
>temptation
>comes! 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off
>and
>throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than
>with
>two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
>
>Look at verse 6 - this specifically talks about the little ones who
>believe
>in him, with no indication that the ones who stumble or sin were not
>true
>sons in the first place, and we're talking about the kinds of sin that
>can
>lead to being thrown into the eternal fire (verse 8).
>
>>It is in this context where the parable of the unforgiving servant
>>crystallizes the importance of having a forgiving spirit toward the
>>sinning brother who repents. I think a beautiful balance of: 1) love
>for
>>the sinning brother and 2) zeal for the holiness of God and His
>church
>>are brought together profoundly. Both must be practiced because both
>are
>>biblical and neither one contradicts the other.
>
>I think this is a great summary of the part of the chapter that I
>understand. I'm still not sure where verses 19-20 fit in...
>
>Jonathan
>
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>Jonathan Robie jwrobie@mindspring.com
>http://www.mindspring.com/~jwrobie
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