From: Ward Powers (bwpowers@eagles.bbs.net.au)
Date: Fri Jul 03 1998 - 22:09:08 EDT
At 15:20 98/07/03, Larry Swain wrote:
>It is with some dismay that I read the responses to my attempt to clarify
>issues. So let me again attempt to set things straight.
>
>First, as to context: my original remarks were addressed to a line where
>someone was apologizing for making a request about the meaning of a passage
>and was concerned that it was "theological". My remarks were intended to
>let that person and any others know that almost every question we ask and
>address on this list in some way touches "theology" and interpretation, and
>that there was no need to apologize or be wary of asking such questions.
>Rather as long as the discussion centered on the Greek text, we were fine.
>That was my intent, it seems to have the opposite affect.
Yes, I think it rather did. Thank you now for this reply, which does
significantly aid clarity.
>Second, Ward, to you directly, I envy you. If you have had such positive
>experiences then sir, my hat is off to you. It is what I would want this
>list to be (and by and large is).
Good. Let us have this as our goal and our expectation for participation in
this list.
>However, I have been on the Internet
>before there was an Internet, 13 years now, and I have seen a lot of
>wounds. I have seen lists and newsgroups in the early days fall apart over
>discussion of a theological issue. I have seen people doubt their faith
>and their church and end up giving up both sparked by an online discussion.
> I have seen people not contribute to lists in fear of being flamed.
I am very sad indeed to learn this. It is disgraceful that this should
happen, and it points up the need to have those in control of a list (such
as b-greek) to supervise list etiquette and the general tone of our
interactions.
>And as Carl may recall about 3 years ago I was guilty of borderline
>behavior on this list as well. Gracefully, he called me on it.
I do not recall this. But it shows the system working as it should -
someone is graciously reminded of how things should be done, and that
person graciously accepts this and adjusts his approach accordingly. But
this does not mean that the original discussion was necessarily out of
order or that it should have been censored or curtailed in advance because
of a possibility about what MIGHT happen.
>So my concern is that
>in the discussion of items such as the role of women in the church (our
>Timothy passage) that once we stop discussing whether ANHR and GUNH can or
>should be translated as husband/wife rather than generic man/woman and
>begin discussing instead historical-critical models of the church, the role
>of women in the early or modern church and so on, when those issues are
>broached we have strayed away from the meaning of the Greek text to the
>application of the text and open the way for hammer and tongs debate.
>Because the major discussants on that issue are gracious, mature, academic
>kind of folk, the Scylla and Charibdis danger was avoided and my fears
>allaid.
My comments were of course meant to be taken much more generally than just
in relation to this one thread.
>Third, what does it mean to discuss the Greek text and its meaning? At
>what point does that discussion become the doing of theology? That's a
>gray area that can only be defined on a case by case basis and is going to
>be difficult.
This is where my concern really focusses. The reason for my involvement in
Greek these many years is primarily because I want to access the GNT in
order to improve my understanding of theology. The reason for my
involvement in b-greek is primarily that through interaction with others of
like interest but frequently different perspective, I can have my awareness
of other views broadened and my thinking stimulated. This can - and should
- involve looking at the theological significance of this or that passage
in the Greek. I have reason to believe that a great many others on b-greek
have a similar outlook.
Those in control of this list should not exercise that control too tightly.
To say that theology is banned on this list because someone may flame
someone else is unacceptable to me. It is like saying we should not travel
by ship because ships sometimes sink; or we would best avoid getting into a
car because motor vehicles sometimes have accidents. By all means recognize
the potential danger, and take steps to minimize it; and when something
unacceptable occurs, then by all means take steps to put it right. But do
not cut short a desirable journey because of something that just might
happen down the track.
>As I reread this, I debate whether to post it. I hope to clarify, perhaps
>by way of discussion, the issue we face
I am glad you posted it. It does serve to clarify what is at stake.
>-it is very grey at times and
>perhaps the staff needs to discuss this online to try and get a sense for
>when lines should be drawn. But I fear that just as my last post on this
>list, my remarks will result in further obfuscation rather than
>enlightenment.
Be very slow to draw those lines too tightly. Give list members a bit of
slack.
This list is good hearted and often highly entertaining, as well as very
instructive and stimulating to one's thinking. And do not be too embracing
in the definition of "flaming". When one list member expresses disagreement
with another, this (provided it is done with due courtesy, as it usually
is) is not flaming, but legitimate academic interaction. In my
recollection, the number of times a list member has "flamed" another is
very small, and in most cases a quiet word to the offender was all that was
needed.
I do not see that we have a major problem on our hands requiring drastic
action.
Steady as she goes.
Regards,
Ward
>Larry Swain
>
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Rev Dr B. Ward Powers Phone (International): 61-2-9799-7501
10 Grosvenor Crescent Phone (Australia): (02) 9799-7501
SUMMER HILL NSW 2130 email: bwpowers@eagles.bbs.net.au
AUSTRALIA.
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