From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 09 1998 - 06:39:52 EDT
I am inclined to think personally that "witness" here is being understood
overmuch in the more contemporary English sense of the word--even an
evangelical (lower-case C) sense of telling one's own
faith-history--whereas there is always, I think,in the classical and
especially in the NT usage a powerful overtone of the original
judicial/forensic setting of the word: a MARTUS is a witness in a trial,
not a spectator at an event--and the distinctive NT usage is of one who is
brought to trial and faces execution for the "testimony" that one offers
before the court. So I think that the context of Heb 12:1-2 suggests only
secondarily some notion of an arena of spectators watching a race being
performed (that is much more the suggestion of Phil 2) and more the notion
of a Roman CORONA of onlookers at our own trial: our 'race' is our own
performance before both an earthly and an eschatological forensic judge.
Here's L&N (from Accordance):
20.67 MARTUS , MARTUROS, dat. pl. MARTUSIN m: a person who has been
deprived of life as the result of bearing witness to his beliefs -
'martyr.' KAI EK TOU hAIMATOS TWN MARTURWN IHSOU 'and the blood of those
who were killed because they had been loyal to Jesus' Re 17:6. A strictly
literal translation of the Greek expression in Re 17:6 (EK TOU hAIMATOS TWN
MARTURWN IHSOU 'of the blood of the martyrs of Jesus') is likely to result
in considerable misunderstanding, for it could mean that these were
individuals who had been martyred by Jesus rather than those who had been
deprived of their lives because of their relationship to Jesus. It would be
possible to render tw×n martu/rwn ÆIhsouv as 'those who had been killed
because they belonged to Jesus,' but one should avoid any expression which
would suggest slave ownership.
33.270 MARTUS , ROS, dat. pl. SIN m: (derivative of MARTUREW 'to witness,'
33.262) a person who witnesses - 'witness, one who testifies.' hINA EPI
STOMATOS DUO MARTURWN H TRIWN STAQHi PAN hRHMA 'in order that everything
may be confirmed on the basis of what two or three witnesses say' Mt 18:16.
At 5:58 PM -0500 7/08/98, Eric Weiss wrote:
>A certain author claims that the "great cloud of witnsesses" in Hebrews
>12:1 are in a sense "spectators" of what the present-day church is
>doing, as though they are in a stadium, watching us run the race and
>cheering us on, since apart from us they can't be made perfect (11:40).
>My two commentaries on Hebrews suggest the same, so it's not an uncommon
>idea.
>
>I note that the verbal form (MARTUREW) of the word translated as
>"witness(es)" (MARTUS) occurs in the immediately-preceding chapter 11
>five times (the noun MARTUS only occurs in 12:1 and 10:28): at 11:2
>("for by it the elders received a witness/testimony"), 4(2x) ("through
>which he was testified as being righteous"; "God testifying/bearing
>witness to his gifts"), 5 ("for before he was translated/taken up it was
>testified that he was pleasing to God"), and 39 ("and these all having
>received the witness/testimony through their faith did not receive the
>promise"). It is to the persons in chapter 11 that the author is
>referring when he writes about "the great cloud of witnesses."
>
>Is it possible that from the usage of MARTUREW in chapter 11, it is
>because God bore witness (MARTUREW) to their faith that they are called
>MARTUS - witnesses - i.e., those who have obtained a witness/testimony
>from God because of their faith, and that they surround us in the sense
>that the testimony of their faith always "surrounds" us as we strive to
>show the same perseverance? This, as opposed to the usual idea that they
>are "witnesses" because they are watching us run our race?
>
>In the next verse, 12:2, the author states: "turning away from all else
>and looking to Jesus, the author/pioneer and perfector/finisher of our
>faith." If we "down here" are to keep our eyes on Jesus, would not those
>who are around the throne or in Paradise or wherever they are do the
>same thing? He (Jesus), not we, is the one that is going to complete
>this thing. For the "witnesses" to be cheering us on would mean that
>they are fixing their eyes on us, trusting in us and our perseverance to
>make them perfect (11:40).
>
>I know this borders on theology and not exclusively Greek language
>understanding, but my question/interpretation hinges on how one would
>translate MARTUS (plural genitive MARTURWN) in 12:1 - and whether the
>usage of MARTUREW in 11 has any bearing on this. Does the fact that it's
>a "cloud of witnesses" help the interpretation, i.e., is that a
>technical or idiomatic Hellenistic term for spectators at an arena?
>
>--
>"Eric S. Weiss"
>http://home1.gte.net/eweiss/index.htm
>eweiss@gte.net
>S.D.G.
>
>
>
>---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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