From: Steven Cox (scox@Mail.Sparkice.COM.CN)
Date: Tue Jul 14 1998 - 22:39:09 EDT
Hi Jim
>At 09:34 AM 7/15/98 +0800, you wrote:
>>rich-boy Paul had his own PAIDAGWGOS in Tarsus and felt no embarrassment
>>about flaunting this in front of the Galatians and Corinthians??
>I do not think this is the case at all.
No neither do I, I was just kicking a straw man around the kitchen to
hear the thud.
>Even if one did not have the
>financial resources, everyone knew what a pedagogue did.
Sure, especially in Galatians and Corinth, but isn't it implied that at
least some of the Galatians are Jews. We know what rich Greeks
did in Corinth (better fit) but do we know what Galatian Jews understood
by PAIDAGWGOS?
No doubt I'm guilty of being very 20th Century here and showing typical
British
class-fixation. But... just imagine if Paul had said "The law is our butler
to
lay out our clothes and iron our morning paper"
>Further, if we were to adopt your idea that only the rich could afford such
>a slave, then we must assume that Paul is implying that they are rich- for
>they too have a pedagogue! Which, now that I think of it, could be a
>possibility, no?
Certainly - that's why I raised it in the second paragraph ;-)
>>Is it possible that Paul has a different perhaps synagogal connection in
>>mind than the Greek PAIDAGWGOS? Is it conceivable that for example
>>the synagogue provided a PAIDAGWGOS to tutor all the boys in the
>>town (or lead them to the Synagogue school) for free - or at the shared
>>expense of all the parents?
>I am not sure of this. Strack-Billerbeck discuss the rabbinic parallels on
Are you refering to the German edition of Hermann Strack's Into to
Talmud and Midrash? Billerbeck is the Margarethe B. who writes on
Seneca? ISBN please!
>p. 557 of vol. 3. They list several places where the Rabbis too spoke of
>the law as a <gk>paideuths</gk>.
> One example-
>
>NuR 1 (135a): Gott sprach zu den Israeliten: Habe ich euch nicht drei <heb>
>pdgogyn</heb> erstehen lassen, Mose, Ahron, u. Mirjam?
Okay I'll translate this for any on the list that survive without German:
"God said to the Israelites have I not raised three PAIDAGWGOI, Moses
Aaron and Miriam to lead [you?] that the Israelites have Moses to thank
for the Manna, Aaron for the clouds of glory and Miriam for the springs in
the wilderness".
Excellent example - thankyou Jim. This makes much better sense of Gal 3:24
to me than the MM papyri.
>The problem with the Talmud is that it is so late that it is not really a
>good place to find 1st century usage demonstrated.
I'm not 100% convinced that Talmud is irrelevant. Seeing as both Saul of
Tarsus and early Rabbinic literature share common roots shouldn't we at
least be aware of Rabbinical "Greek" even if that means foraging among
the loanword crumbs?
Just asking - not a dogmatic opinion. Presumably R. Aqiba and the rest
inherited something in their spoken Greek from the Greek of Sepphoris
and Diaspora Pharisees?
Any bibliography apart from Krauss on Rabbinic Greek anyone???
Rgds
Steven
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