From: Lemuel G. Abarte (lemuel@bcd.weblinq.com)
Date: Fri Sep 04 1998 - 20:00:05 EDT
Dear Greg,
It looks like John's intent was to emphasize the pre-existence of Jesus Christ based on his discourses. I think the prolegomena (John 1) starts with this premise. John sought to show that in the succeeding chapters from the statements of Jesus Himself.
What I do consider unique in this Gospel is the use of the stative verb EIMI. The previous discussions in B-Greek about this verb is really a goldmine.
It seems also that the intent of the evangelists was to present profiles of the Person of Jesus Christ in various contexts.
The uniqueness of EIMI as a favorite verb of John does bear out something significant (John 1:1,2,4,9,10). It seems that the Johanine vocabulary also contrasts EIMI and GINOMAI. DOZA is another prominent word (John 2:11; 5:41; 17:5).
It does look like EGW EIMI in the context where Jesus used this statement in Mark 14:60-64 is an assertion of His Messiahship. John's use does show a significance not covered in the other writings (John 8). There the soteriological issue was emphasized (John 8:24, 28) and based on the 'other worldness' of Jesus Christ (John 8:23). The allusion to the account in Numbers 21:7-9 of the word hUPSOW (John 8:28) may be a graphic description to a predominantly religious Jewish crowd.
I don't think there was a misunderstanding in the minds of the audience concerning what Jesus said when He emphasized EGW EIMI in John 8. Only when He said PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI EGW EIMI that what He was declaring hit home (John 8:23,24,58). It does look like EGW EIMI is a title He took for Himself from Exodus 3:14 (John 8:24) and applied to Abraham's case (John 8:58).
Regards.
Lemuel
-----Original Message-----
From: GregStffrd@aol.com [SMTP:GregStffrd@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 12:36 AM
To: Biblical Greek
Cc: b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Re: A SUMMARY OF THE ISSUES SURROUNDING EGW EIMI IN JOHN 8:58
In a message dated 9/3/98 5:26:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lemuel@bcd.weblinq.com writes:
<< Dear Wes,
It looks like the evidence of John 8:24 has to be included in the analysis of
verse 58 since the chapter indicates one discourse.
Pardon if I somewhat overlooked John 8:24 in the archives. It seems it was
not treated in that thread.
Lemuel
>>
Dear Lemuel:
I think Wes is referring to my Summary post, wherein I reference the different
uses of EGW EIMI in the Fourth Gospel, and in the Synoptics.
I agree with you. If a predicate is to be added to EGW EIMI in 8:58, it should
be consistent with John 8:24 and 8:28. But 8:58 is functioning as part of a
Greek idiom that highlights his past and present existence. The question you
are interested in at this point is whether or not Jesus' words involve his
pre- and present existence *as someone*.
I believe he did, and that the predicate relates to his existence as the
Messiah. This is consistent with the context of 8:58, including 8:24, 28. We
have discussed this in previous posts, and it was pointed out that the
reaction of the Jews in 8:58 is consistent with their reaction in Mark
14:60-64, where Jesus also used EGW EIMI as a means of identifying himself as
the Messiah.
Hope this helps!
Greg Stafford
--- B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu--- B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:39:59 EDT