From: Antonio Eduardo Costa Pereira (costa@ufu.br)
Date: Sun Mar 28 1999 - 14:06:15 EST
George Blaisdell wrote:
> We had a couple of Athenian students in my Greek 101
> class some 25 years ago, and for the first couple of weeks
> they cruised while we struggled with the alphabet etc. But
> as I am recalling, once the rest of the class caught up on
> mundane looking at the Greek, the two Athenians
> struggled just the same as the rest of us to learn the
> forms, and by their own words they said the Attic was very
> much a foreign language to them.
KURIWi GEWRGWi KOSTAS XAIRE.
POLUS XRONOS EGENETO MOI PRIN hEURISKEIN
hERMHNEUTHN hOS EBOHQEI ME METAFRAZEIN TAUTHN
THN HLEKTRONIKHN EPISTOLHN EIS THN THS
BRETANNIAS DIALEKTON. DIA TOUTO OUK EGRAPSA
SOI hWS EUQUS hWS EBOULOMHN. hH MEN METAFRASIS
ESTI KATW, META TO PRWTOTUPON AUTOGRAFON.
SAFWS OIDA hOTI POLLOI ANQRWPOI DEINOI LEGEIN
TO ERWTHMA SOU APEKRINANTO hOLWS KAI SAFA,
ALLA KAI EGW BOULOMAI DEIKNUNAI THN AXRHSTON
GNWMHN MOU. EI GAR XRH TALHQH LEGEIN, OU MELHTAW THN TWN
hELLHNWN DIALEKTON, OUDE MEMAQHKA AUTHN EN
PANEPISTHMEIWi H AKADHMIAi, ALLA OIKWi hUPO
PATROS AGROIKOU MEN, FILOMAQOUS DE.
OUK OLIGOI TWN hELLHNIZONTWN XRWNTAI PALAIAIS
DIALEKTOIS hWN ONOMATA KOINH KAQAREOUSA TE
KAI hAPLH KAQAREOUSA TUGXANEI WN. hH MEN
KOINH KATHAREOUSA OU FAINEI THN DOTIKHN,
OUDE THN APAREMFATON EGKLISIN. PARADEIGMATOS XARIN,
BLEPE TODE KEIMENON:
"ANQRWPOS TIS EISHLQE EIS TO DASOS DIA NA KOPTHi
XULA. DIPSASAS AFHKE TON PELEKUN AUTOU KAI
APHLQE EIS THN PARAKEIMENHN PHGHN DIA NA PIHi
hUDWR..." KAI TA LOIPA.
ALLA OU hOMOIWS EXEI TOUTO TO KEIMENON THi ATTIKHi ;
NAI. EXEI MEN hOMOIWS TA PLEISTA, DIAFEREI DE MONON TOIS
APAREMFATOIS TE KAI TAIS DOTIKAIS. LEGETAI GAR
"NA PIHi HUDWR", ANTI THS ATTIKHS "hWSTE PINEIN hUDWR".
OLIGAI DE DOTIKAI FAINONTAI EN THi KOINHi KATHAREOUSHi.
hH MEN hAPLH KATHAREOUSA ENEXEI APAREMFATOUS MEN
EGKLISEIS, DOTIKAS DE POLLAS. TON DE AUTON LOGON
TADE DIDWMI SOI, PARADEIGMATOS XARIN THi hAPLHi
KAQAREUSHi.
"ANQRWPOS TIS HLQE EIS THN hULHN hWSTE KOPTEIN
XULA. DIPSASAS AFHKE TON PELEKUN AUTOU KAI
APHLQE EIS THN PARAKEIMENHN PHGHN PIOMENOS
hUDWR..." KAI TA LOIPA.
OU DOKEI MOI THN KAQAREOUSAN EXEIN TI PROS
THN PAIDEIAN. APHNTHSA GAR PEPAIDEUMENOIS
MEN ANTHROPOIS MISOUMENOIS THN KATHAREOUSAN,
APAIDEUTOIS DE KALWS hIHMENOIS. EPIXWRIAZWN DE
AQHNAZE POLLAKIS, HiSQANOMHN AQUMOS APOSTASIN
SFODRAN EK THS KAQAREOUSHS GLWSSHS. hH DE
KAQAREOUSA OUK ESTI HDH EPISHMON GLWSSAN,
OLIGOI DE ANQRWPOI hOMILOUSI ALLHLOIS DIALEGOMENOI
THi KAQAREOUSHi GLWSSHi. LUPH DE TOUTO ESTI.
APERXONTAI hOI hELLHNES EK THS MEGALHS KLHRONUMIAS
AUTWN, THS AXIOLOGOU. ALLA POLLOI ETI DIALEGONTAI
THi hAPLHi KAQAREOUSHi EN THi DIASPORHi THi MEN TOU
BRASIL THi DE ISWS KAI TWN ALLWN XWRWN.
DIDASKW DE PAIDAS TA GRAMMATA. OhUTOI DE PAIDES
DIALEGOMENOI OIKOI THi hAPLHi KAQAREOUSHi, hRADIWS
SUNLAMBANOUSI THN TOU PLATWNOS DIAQHKHN,
LOUKIANON KAI DE KAI hOMHRON, ANAGNWSKONTOS
TINOS AUTOIS. OU GAR KALWS ANAGIGNWSKOUSI ETI.
OLEQRION KINDUNON PASXEI hH KAQAREOUSA.
TA THS KAQAREUOSHS ESTI ONTWS FAULOTERA H
TA TWN ALLWN GLWSSWN hAIS OLIGOI hOMILOUSI.
ANQRWPOI GAR EN GALIAi PEIRWSI SWZEIN THN
THS Provencas DIALEKTON, H KAI THN TWN KELTWN.
KAQAREOUSA DE OUK FAINETAI EN TWi TWN hHNWMENWN
EQNWN KATALOGWi TWi TWN FQINOUMENWN GLWSSWN.
hOI GAR MEN SOFOI hOI SPOUDAZOUSI PERI GLWSSWN
KRINOUSI THN KAQAREOUSAN PSEUTIKHN KAI AXRHSTON.
EGW DE LEGW hOTI ESTI GEFURA EIS KLEINON XRONON
ENDOXON.
DIDASKETE KAI hUMEIS TA GRAMMATA THS
KAQAREOUSHS GLWSSHS TOIS PAISI TOIS
THS DIASPORAS. EI THN ATTIKHN GIGNWSKEIS,
EUXEIRWS hOMILHSEIS AUTOIS. TO ARQRON OUK
ESTI hOMOION TWi THS ATTIKHS, ALLA TAXEWS
MAQHSEAI (LEGOUSI MEN hWS TAXEWS
TOXA MHXANIKA, ALLA DE EQIZESQE PROS TOUTO).
Costas
Translation
Dear George.
I generally take a long time to comment interesting postings. The fact
is that I do not know English well, and I need help to write in your
language. I tried to use Attic Greek to communicate with B-Greek
people, but I guess that they didn't like the idea :)
I know that a lot of people answered your question, but I will give
my opinion any way. There are a lot of people in Greek speaking
community who use an archaic brand of Greek, called Katharevousa.
There are more than one form of Katharevousa. The normal
Katharevousa don't have dative, or even infinitive. Here is a small
text in normal Katharevousa:
ANQRWPOS TIS EISHLQE EIS TO DASOS DIA NA KOPTHi
XULA. DIPSASAS AFHKE TON PELEKUN AUTOU KAI
APHLQE EIS THN PARAKEIMENHN PHGHN DIA NA PIHi
hUDWR... KAI TA LOIPA.
As you can see, even this weak form of Katharevousa is quite close
to Attic Greek. The main differences are the lack of infinitives (they
say NA PIHi HUDWR, instead of hWSTE PINEIN hUDWR), and
the presence of very few datives. The so called hAPLH
KATHAREVOUSA is even more archaic. There, you will find lots
of infinitives and the dative is still widely used (although the speakers
often substitute EIS+accusative for datives). Here is the begining of
the tale in hAPLH Katharevousa:
ANQRWPOS TIS HLQE EIS THN hULHN hWSTE KOPTEIN
XULA. DIPSASAS AFHKE TON PELEKUN AUTOU KAI
APHLQE EIS THN PARAKEIMENHN PHGHN PIOMENOS
hUDWR... KAI TA LOIPA.
My experience is that the use of Katharevousa has nothing to do
with education. I have found highly educated Greeks who loath
Katharevousa. I have also found uneducated persons who speaks
only Katharevousa at home. During my visites to Greece, I discovered
(to my dismay) that there is a strong movement against
KATHAREVOUSA there. That language is not official any more,
and few people can speak it. That is a pity: The Greeks are loosing
the most important part of their culture (Dr. Papayotis said that
they are loosing the only part of their culture that matters :)
However, hAPLH KATHAREVOUSA is still widely used among
traditional Greek families in Brazil and (that is a wide guess) possibly
in other countries. Among immigrants, the Orthodox Church is the
only contact with Greek culture. It is in the Church that they learn
to read and to write. Since the Church uses the Bible (Septuagint and
Greek New Testment) and Greek Christian authors as reading material,
it is normal that hAPLH KATHAREVOUSA became a language
widely used at the diaspora. I am teaching a few children to read and
write. Their mother language is a form of KATHAREVOUSA so
archaic that they don't have any difficulty in understanding Plato,
Lucian or even Homer, if you read these authors aloud for them.
The hAPLH KATHAREVOUSA is definitely an endangered language.
Its situation is even worse than other languages with a small
number of speakers. People try to keep Provencal alive, or
even Gaelic. hHAPLH KATHAREVOUSA doesn't appear in
UNESCO's list of endangered languages, because linguists think
that it is an artificial contrivance... My own opinion is that it
is a bridge to a glorious past, that Greeks should keep with as much
care as Israelis cultivate spoken Hebrew.
I would like to suggest you and other people from B-Greek to teach
speakers of hAPLH KATHAREVOUSA in your country to love and
practice their language. If you speak Attic Greek, you won't have
any difficulty in communicate with them. The pronuntiation is slightly
different, but you will become used to it in a short time (it is true that
they speak as fast as a machine gun, but you will get used to it too)
Offer these speakers to teach their children how to read and write.
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