From: Moon-Ryul Jung (moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr)
Date: Mon Jun 21 1999 - 23:23:50 EDT
On 06/19/99, ""Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>" wrote:
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> At 1:56 PM -0400 6/19/99, Bill Barton wrote:
> >Carl Conrad wrote:
> >
> >CC>No, EK in this instance [Rev 18:20] must mean (oddly) "with reference
> >to", an extraordinary extension of "arising from", i.e., it really does
> >start out as an ablatival genitive, but passes over into a semantic realm
> >close to what one expects with an accusative of respect or dative of
> >respect.>
> >
> >
> >Some other examples of the idiom "avenge from":
> >
> >
> >Rev 6:10 God is entreated to judge the martyrs "from (ek) the inhabitants
> >of the earth."
> >
> >Rev 19:2 God avenged the blood of his servants "from (ek) her hand."
> >
> >Luke 18:3 The widow entreated the judge to avenge her "from (apo) my
> >adversary."
> >
> >Deut 18:19 in LXX God said of those who ignored the Prophet "I will avenge
> >myself from (ek) him."
> >
> >1 Sam 24:13 in LXX David said to Saul "may the Lord avenge me from (ek)
> >you."
> >
> >
> >Could it be that the sense of the idiom is that the judgment removes
> >something from the one judged, so that the use of EK with the genitive is
> >in the sense of separation?
> (
> I suppose it could be a Semitism; on the other hand, what leaped
> immediately to my mind when I saw this was a Latin idiom, SUPPLICIUM SUMERE
> DE ALIQUO, "to exact punishment from someone": Here is the section from the
> Lewis & Short Latin dictionary at the Perseus site, s.v. SUMO.
>
Carl,
The hypothesis that MIN + adversary in revenge formula became
( EX (Greek) + adversary seems to make sense for me. Thanks
for this observation. Now my question is: Is there such a thing
"genitive of respect"? Or is it posed to make examples like Rev 18:20
make sense?
Thanks
Moon-Ryul Jung
Soongsil University
Seoul, Korea
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