From: Joel D Kalvesmaki (jdkalv@u.washington.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 15 1999 - 22:56:55 EDT
>the latin liturgy makes use of a legitimately latin phrase. that phrase
was
>taken into a song. those are the facts. There is nothing at all un-latin
>about the phrase "kyrie eleison" any more than there is anything un-english
>about the word "kindergarten" (a german loan word!)
There is a disanalogy here, since "kyrie eleison," a sentence, should not be
compared to "kindergarten," a word, but another common loan sentence or
phrase such as "caveat emptor," "id est," or "que sera sera." Although quite
common in English, no one, I suppose, would think these were English, even
*if* used for centuries, as they have.
Another way to put it, "kyrie eleison" would be Latin if and only if "kyrie"
and "eleison" were Latin. But "Kurie" is not used in Latin. And "eleison" is
not used (unlike, say, the loan word "eleemosyna" -- Polycarp ad Ph. 10:2,
Latin text). They show up nowhere but in a liturgical context, always
together, like the three loan phrases in English I mentioned above. Thus
"kyrie eleison" is a phrase used only in certain contexts. Such phrases are
generally considered to be part of the other language whence they were
derived.
Sorry, Jim, I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this, or else using a taxonomy
that the rest of us don't understand.
jk
Joel D Kalvesmaki SignatureJoel D Kalvesmaki
Alumnus, Classics and Philosophy
University of Washington
Seattle, Washington
Matriculated, Catholic University of America
Early Christian Studies
Washington, D.C.
>
>Best,
>
>Jim
>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Jim West, ThD
>email- jwest@highland.net
>web page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
>
>
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