From: David A Bielby (dbielby@juno.com)
Date: Thu Dec 02 1999 - 13:25:30 EST
Thanks for the clarity. I'm enjoying this and it is helpful.
On 12/02/99, "Steven Craig Miller <scmiller@www.plantnet.com>" wrote:
> To: David A Bielby,
>
> << The other day my inlaws pulled up in front of the house and my kids
> called out..."they're here!".......but they were still in the street in
> their car....still 'coming near'. Much like the sense of the perfect in
> Matt 24:46. With EGGIZW it seems like the Perfect tense overlaps with
> commonly used phrases like the illustration above. >>
>
> It seems to me that you are suggesting that (a) because "here" can be
> stretched to refer to something "near," (b) thus "near" can be stretched to
> refer to something "here." Logically, it is not clear to me that "a"
> necessarily implies "b."
>
> Of course, "here" (like "there") and "near" (like "far") are relative
> terms. The same distance can be deemed by one person to be "near" and by
> another to be "far." For example, if the Pope flies into New York City,
> someone on the west coast could say, "The Pope is here" (i.e., in the
> USofA). While a person at the convention center where the Pope is scheduled
> to speak might wonder why the Pope, who is at the airport, or on his way,
> is not yet "here" (at the convention center).
>
> As for the perfect verb at Mt 24:46, I wonder if this was a typo? Perhaps
> for Mt 26:46?
>
Yes, I meant Mt 26. Thx
> The verb EGGIZW seems to be used with the perfect tense 14 times in the NT
> (at: Mt 3:2; 4:17; 10:7; 26:45,46; Mk 1:15; 14:42; Lk 10:9,11; 21:8,20; Rom
> 13:12; Jam 5:8; & 1Pet 4:7).
>
> In a number of these examples, it is absolutely clear that the perfect
> tense of EGGIZW does not mean that the subject of the verb is "present."
> For example: "The end of all things is near" (1Pet 4:7 NRSV) & "When you
> see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come
> near" (Lk 21:20 NRSV).
>
> As for Mt 26:46, Matthew writes: << "Get up, let us be going. See, my
> betrayer is at hand." While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the
> twelve, arrived ... >> (Mt 26:46-47a NRSV; cf. Mk 14:42-43a). The Matthean
> Jesus says that his betrayer is "near" (or "at hand") right as Judas
> himself "arrived." But I would suggest that what we have here is simply
> part of the storyteller's art. In fact, to translate this passage as "my
> betrayer has come" would spoil (part of) the story. The point of the story
> IMO is that Jesus' betrayer arrives just as Jesus tells his disciples that
> his betrayer is on his way here. In my opinion, this passage does not
> suggest that the prefect tense of EGGIZW was being used so as to imply that
> the subject of the verb is present. Does this make sense to you, or no?
Yes, I understand what you are saying....and coupled with Joe's message I'm
getting the point. So, what I'm not seeing clearly is the distinction
between the tenses when applied to this word. Is it blurred?
BTW-Can someone email me instructions on how to pull archives that touch on
subjects that are related. I'm not able to figure out the system online by
myself.
>
> -Steven Craig Miller
> Alton, Illinois (USA)
> scmiller@www.plantnet.com
>
> "Words are like people. To know them well one must meet them on their own
> level, in their own environment. In different circumstances they react
> differently. Like a face they take on varying expressions. Some of them
> move from place to place; some never return to their earlier familiar
> surroundings. But to know their past is to know a little better what makes
> them act as they do in the present" (Frederick W. Danker, "Multipurpose
> Tools for Bible Study," 1993:135).
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