From: Bill Rodgers (billfred@erols.com)
Date: Tue Jan 04 2000 - 13:02:36 EST
Bart: I am taking hOPER (I see I slipped in the transliteration) as "indeed" and reading
it with the KAI ESTIN. A more literal reading of the three words would be "and
which he indeed is..." I think the hOPER is used to intensify the ESTIN.
Bill
Bart Ehrman wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion! So are you taking hOPER to mean "since"?
>
> -- Bart Ehrman
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Bill Rodgers wrote:
>
> > Bart and Carl: I would like to make two points:
> >
> > l. You may well be right about hINATI. This is certainly what has happened with
> > GIATI in modern Greek.
> >
> > 2. But I think I might still read it another way. The full sentence reads: PANTA
> > OUN POIWMEN WS AUTOU EN hMIN KATOIKOUNTOS, hINA WMEN AUTOU NAOI KAI AUTOS EN hMIN
> > QEOS hMWN, OPER KAI ESTIN KAI FANHSETAI PRO PROSWPOU hMWN, EX hWN DIKAIWS AGAPWMEN
> > AUTON.
> >
> > I would translate: "Since he dwells within us, let us do all things so
> > that we may be his temples and he may be our God within us, and since
> > he is and will be present before us, by these means let us rightly
> > love him."
> >
> > I see "PANTA" as the antecedent to "EX hWN," and read both POIWMEN AND AGAPWMEN as
> > hortatory.
> >
> > Bill Rodgers
> >
> >
> > "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> >
> > > I should add here, for what it's worth, that when I saw James Ernest's note
> > > on this I felt instinctively that he was right. Of course, as Bart says,
> > > one would like to know something is right by something stronger than
> > > instinct. What occurred to me is that DI' hWN is probably one of those
> > > phrases comparable to Latin QUAPROPTER or QUAMOBREM or DE QUA CAUSA which
> > > tend to become single words or phrases with a single sense, all synonymous
> > > in the sense of "therefore." There are so many such compounds; I recall an
> > > interesting thread a couple years back on hINATI = hINA TI.
> > >
> > > At 8:37 AM -0500 1/4/00, Bart Ehrman wrote:
> > > > It appears to be taken this way by other translators, but the
> > > >commentators pass over it without a note (making me think that there's
> > > >something obvious here that I'm missing), and I haven't been able to find
> > > >anything quite like it anywhere (which probably means it's all over the
> > > >map). If you do run across a clear parallel, let me know. (There's
> > > >something kind of *similar* in the preceding chapter, btw: "Thus who claim
> > > >to belong to Christ will be seen through the things they do" DI hWN
> > > >PRASSOUSIN OFQHSONTiAI).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >-- Bart
> > > >
> > > >Bart D. Ehrman
> > > >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, James Ernest wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Don't koine texts commonly use phrase with hWN (? ex hwn, di hwn) as
> > > >> rough equivalents for "therefore" without any concern for the historical
> > > >> identify of hWN as a relative pronoun that should have an antecedent? I
> > > >> don't have time to look this up properly, so don't skewer me too badly
> > > >> if I'm just being dumb here.... I would try checking BDF and maybe some
> > > >> searches in electronic texts.
> > >
> > > Carl W. Conrad
> > > Department of Classics/Washington University
> > > One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> > > Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> > > cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> > > WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
> > >
> > > ---
> > > B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek
> > > You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: billfred@erols.com
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> >
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