From: Iver Larsen (alice-iver_larsen@wycliffe.org)
Date: Tue Dec 05 2000 - 04:17:38 EST
Dear Harold,
>
> Dear Dan,
>
> First, Iver's idea (that "this generation" in Matt 24:34 refers to the
> disciples of Christ in all generations) seems unbelievable to me, out of
> line with the use of the phrase "this generation" elsewhere in the Gospels
What I said was a very brief summary of the conclusions from an article "Who is this
generation?" published in 1985 in Notes on Translation 108 (SIL). A non-traditional
statement always sounds unbelievable at first, and I don't expect everyone to agree
with such ideas, at least not the first time they hear them. Especially the use in
Matt 24:34 is difficult, but my approach is to look at the usage of GENEA throughout
the NT without prejudice and then apply this knowledge to difficult passages like the
Olivet Discourse.
I would encourage those who have an interest in new ideas to look up the references
and look at the Greek text afresh, rather than from the standpoint of English
traditional translations. Maybe one should start with Luke 16:8, which NIV translates
as follows: "For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own
kind than are the people of the light." The Greek word GENEA is translated by NIV as
"kind (of people)".
I would prefer to refer to the full article, but let me extract here a summary of the
various senses of GENEA I found from context:
The primary sense is 'descendants, family, clan, that is, a group of people with a
common ancestor' (see for instance: New International Dictionary of New Testament
Theology, 2.35).
This primary sense occurs rarely in the New Testament. (Acts 8:33) The word occurs in
plural in MATT 1:17 with a closely related sense of 'succeeding sets of descendants,
stages in a genealogy'.
The secondary sense is a natural extension of the first sense and can be stated thus:
'a group of people with a common bond or characteristic; a certain class or type of
people'. This sense is common in the New Testament. The TEV (and other idiomatic,
meaning-based translations) often translates it simply as "people." The
characteristic feature of the people referred to is in all cases drawn out from the
context. (Luke 16:8, Acts 2:40, Phil 2:15, Matt 17:17 (Mark 9:19, Luke 9:41), Matt
12:39 (Mark 8:12, Matt 16:4, Luke 11:29), Matt 23:36 (Luke 11:50), Luke 17:25, Matt
11:16 (Luke 7:31), Heb 3:10, Matt 24:34 (Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32).
The third sense of GENEA is closely related to "generation." It occurs in contexts
which supply a time aspect to the basic meaning of genera. I shall divide this sense
into two, where - although time and people are included in both - the first has the
time reference in focus and the second has the people reference in focus.
1. "An age, a generation"-time in focus (Luke 1.5, Acts 14:1, Acts 15:21, Eph 3:5,21,
Col. 1:26, Acts 13:36)
2. "A generation of people living at a certain time"-people in focus (Luke 1.48)
End of summary.
>
> You ask:
>
> >I would be interested in hearing thoughts on the use of this expression in
> >the author of Hebrews modification of Ps 94 LXX in Heb 3:10, where he
> >substitutes hOUTOS for the reading EKEINOS from the LXX. Is this merely
> >stylistic conformity to a stock phrase in the NT culture, or is the author
> >(note the non-use of a personal pronoun, hedging) making a theological
> >statement akin to the usage in the gospels.
Thanks, Dan, for pointing this out. I had not noticed that Hebrews 3:10 uses a
different demonstrative from the LXX. Maybe the author of Hebrews is quoting from a
different version of the LXX or he may be doing his own translation from the Hebrew
text, since there are other differences. It is hard to tell why a different
demonstrative is used. I am not very familiar with Hebrew, but as far as I can tell
the Hebrew text of Ps 95:10 has neither "this" nor "that", but simply "I am angry
with DOR (generation/people)".
One really ought to make a thorough study of the use of DOR in Hebrew also, since
this would be in all likelihood be the word Jesus actually used. My point is that DOR
and GENEA does not have the same semantic range of meanings as does "generation" in
English. My primary interest and profession is in linguistics and Bible translation,
not in classical languages, and this obviously influences my viewpoint. Modern Bible
translations tend to go away from a tradition of always using the word "generation"
to translate DOR/GENEA, regardless of context. Compare, for instance, the very
literal RSV with the less-but-still-fairly literal NIV of the following verse:
Ps 12:7-8 RSV: "Do thou, O LORD, protect us, guard us ever from this generation. On
every side the wicked prowl, as vileness is exalted among the sons of men." NIV: "O
LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever. The wicked
freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men."
As a translator who is focused on communicating the original meaning in context, I
believe an English phrase like "such people" often in many contexts is closer to the
intended meaning than "this generation."
Sincerely,
Iver Larsen
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