From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Tue Jan 02 2001 - 10:19:30 EST
I am somewhat hesitant to come back to this question when I'm not sure that
what I want to say goes beyond what I said about it before; nevertheless ...
At 5:51 AM -0500 1/2/01, Moon-Ryul Jung wrote:
>In the present case, we have:
>
>an argument arose among them, that (TO) which of them is greatest. (3)
>
>That which of them is greatest clearly explains "an argument". But I am
>not sure if the clause refers back or is anaphoric to "an argument"
>in the same way as in (1). I am not sure if the referent of the clause in
>(2) is based on or derived from "an argument". "Which of them is greatest"
>is
>too specific to infer from "an argument". I think the usage of TO in (3)
>is more like that of "the" in (2).
>
>I am inclined to think that the question of "which of them is
>greatest" is introduced somewhat unexpectedly. i.e. without any support of
>the previous text. But because the question is not an uncommon topic among
>people, the reader would be ready to accept it as "known" (thereby
>accepting the use of TO) even if it is introduced somewhat unexpectedly.
>Let me consider an example where the definite expression is anaphoric (by
>my definition).
Without raising or looking for any response to the source-critical question
I simply note the parallel in Mark 9:33-34 KAI EN THi OIKIAi GENOMENOS
EPHRWTA AUTOUS: TI EN THi hODWi DIELOGIZESQE? hOI DE ESIWPWN; PROS ALLHLOUS
GAR DIELECQHSAN EN THi hODWi TIS MEIZWN. I personally think that this is an
earlier formulation of the same tradition; here TIS MEIZWN is perhaps the
weakest possible form of the indirect question; it omits a copulative verb
and it is not introduced by anything, although I think it's clear enough
that TIS MEIZWN functions as a noun clause of indirect question and that it
is the object of the verb DIELECQHSAN: "they'd been discussing which one is
the greatest." Now compare this with Luke's formulation: Luke 9:46 reads
EISHLQE DE DIALOGISMOS EN AUTOIS, TO TIS AN EIH MEIZWN AUTWN. I have to say
here what I've said before: I think Luke formulates the narrative assertion
far more elegantly without telling us anything at all different from what
Mark tells us. I think that use of the TO serves no function further than
to MARK what is already a noun clause of indirect question AS a noun clause
of indirect question. That's precisely the function of the article here: to
mark TIS (AN EIH) MEIZWN (AUTWN) as a noun functioning in apposition to
DIALOGISMOS. I'd say that there's a very precise parallel with contemporary
Latin's usage of ILLUD to refer to a phrase, particularly a common phrase
(what Moon's referring to above as "not an uncommon topic among people").
Thus the Oxford Latin Dictionary cites Pliny Epist. 1.20.21: AUDIS
FREQUENTER UT ILLUD 'IMMODICE ET REDUNDANTER' ITA HOC 'IEIUNE ET INFIRME.'
("Just as you often hear that phrase, 'endlessly and repeatedly, so do you
also hear the phrase, 'poorly and sickly.'"
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
cwconrad@ioa.com
http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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