From: Moon-Ryul Jung (moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr)
Date: Sat Jan 20 2001 - 01:54:46 EST
[Moon]
At 7:53 PM -0500 1/19/01, Moon-Ryul Jung wrote:
> >Dear Carl,
> >
> >When you say that PANTES in PANTES hOI MAQHTAI and hOI MAQHTAI PANTES
> >is in a predicate position, do you mean that PANTES is predicate
> >to hOI MAQHTAI?
> >
> >Then, the sense of PANTES hOI MAQATAI would be
> >"being all, the disciples", and the sense of
> >"hOI MAQATAI PANTES" would be "the disciples, being all".
> >If this is right, PANTES here is not a MODIFIER in the sense of
> >Iver.
>
[Carl]
> Actually PAS, hAPAS (seems to me there's another one like this) function as
> demonstratives: one puts the demonstratives in the predicative position:
> hOUTOS hO ANHR or hO ANHR hOUTOS but not hO hOUTOS ANHR. And no, it is not
> a modifier in the same way any normal adjective is.
>
[Moon]
This comment reveals a great insight to the problem in question.
I have two questions.
1)
Suppose that PAS is a demonstrative like hOUTOS.
Then PANTES hOI MAQHTAI (hOI MAQHTAI PANTES) can be rendered
"all, the disciples" ("the disciples, all"). That is, hOI MAQHTAI is
an apposition to PANTES in "PANTES hOI MAQHTAI". PANTES is an apposition
to hOI MAQHTAI in "hOI MAQHTAI PANTES". Wouldn't this explanation
reasonable?
2) If PANTES is an apposition to hOI MAQHTAI in
"hOI MAQHTAI PANTES", we can say that PANTES is in a predicate position
relative to hOI MAQHTAI because PANTES further describes hOI MAQHTAI
whose referent is already determined.
But when we say that Y is in a predicate position in
an expression "X Y", we would assume that "X Y" is a clause.
But when " X Y " is a nominal phrase referring to an object,
it seems confusing to call Y to be in a predicate position.
It seems confusing to say that Y is in a predicate POSITION to X
when Y is not a predicate to X.
If PANTES acts as an apposition to hOI MAQHTAI in "hOI MAQHTAI PANTES",
it would be best to call its position "an appositional position".
Any comments?
Moon
Moon-Ryul Jung
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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