From: Iver Larsen (alice-iver_larsen@wycliffe.org)
Date: Mon Jan 22 2001 - 06:22:07 EST
Dear Carl,
Thanks for your helpful comments. For now, I'll just comment on a couple of
things and delete most of the message as having been read, noted and
appreciated.
>
> In fact the instances in Acts of forms of PAS positioned within the article
> are not anomalous, after all; rather all are instances of collective usage:
What do you mean by "positioned within the article"?
>
> 17:25 ... AUTOS DIDOUS PASI ZWHN KAI PNOHN KAI TA PANTA
Does this not mean: he gives life and breath and all things to ALL (people)? How
is this construction relevant to our point? PASI is a fronted NP because of
emphasis.
> 19:7 HSAN DE hOI PANTES ANDRES hWSEI DWDEKA
They were the whole-group-of men about 12 - right?
> 20:18 ... hUMEIS EPISTASQE, APO PRWTHS hHMERAS AF' hHS EPEBHN EIS THN
> ASIAN, PWS MEQ' hUMWN TON PANTA CRONON EGENOMHN.
The whole time - right? In English almost equivalent to all the time.
> 27:37 HMEQA DE hAI PASAI YUCAI EN TWi PLOIWi DIAKOSIAI hEBDOMHKONTA hEX.
The whole-group-of souls - right?
>
>
> ====================================
> PECULIARITIES OF POSITION WITH THE ARTICLE
> 1174. pa=s (and in the strengthened forms a(/pa_s, su/mpa_s all together).
> a. In the attributive position pa=s denotes the whole regarded as the sum
> of all its parts (the sum total, the collective body): oi( pa/ntes poli=tai
> the whole body of citizens, h( pa=sa *sikeli/a_ the whole of Sicily,
> a)poktei=nai tou\s a(/pantas *mutilhnai/ous to put to death the entire
> Mitylenean population Thuc. 3.36.
It is simpler to me to turn the argument around and say that the Greek word PAS
has two different meanings and usages. It can be used as a quantifier (or
collective pronoun, although I am wary of the confusing term pronoun, because it
has been used with too many distinctive meanings) or as a descriptive adjective.
If it used as a quantifier it corresponds to "all" in English and is positioned
in what is traditionally called the predicate position. Even in English (and
Danish :)) the word "all" occurs before the article. If it used as an adjective,
it corresponds to English "whole" and since it functions as a regular
descriptive adjective, it is positioned where such adjectives are placed, in the
traditional attributive position. Just like "whole" in English is positioned
after the article in the place where adjectives belong. But I would not say that
all/whole means "all" because or when it occurs before the article and "whole"
because or when it occurs after the article. It just so happens that all/whole
can be expressed by the same lexical term in Greek. (The Greek hOLOS only
functions as a quantifier/collective pronoun and never as a regular adjective.)
I know it is hard to rock the boat, and the bigger and older the boat is, the
harder it is. I certainly don't want to overturn any boat for the sake of being
rebellious, but I am concerned that the terminology used is most helpful to the
students and also if possible in agreement with general linguistic terminology.
(I am student of Greek, not a teacher of it, so I don't normally think along the
same lines as a Greek teacher. I do sympathise with students of Greek, though.)
Thanks again,
Iver Larsen
Kolding, Denmark
alice-iver_larsen@wycliffe.org
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