From: CEP7@aol.com
Date: Fri Jan 26 2001 - 12:27:00 EST
In a message dated 1/25/01 8:08:18 PM, GregStffrd writes:
GREG:
<< ARCH is not a verbal noun in the sense of beginner. It may be in terms of
a process, as the start of a series, for this is clearly how we see it used
elsewhere. (cf. John 2:11). But this does not open it up to any and all
verbal ideas. One must show that a verbal idea that is suggested is likely or
at least possible, and this is best done by showing how the suggested verbal
idea is found in other texts. I had asked for some references that might
support this view, but none have been given.
CHARLES:
<< The same would be true of ARCWN, ERGON, AGAPH, etc. >>
GREG:
These are nouns that implicitly suggest a particular verbal idea. ARCH does
not, in spite of its cognate relations, suggest the idea of "beginner," but
of a beginning process of some kind, if at all.
CHARLES:
This still suggests a verbal idea.
<< Nouns with verbal cognates are essentially verbal nouns. >>
GREG:
Then it should be a rather simple thing to find other verses where ARCH has
verbal associations such as those suggested, when it is the head term of a
genitive expression.
>>
CHARLES
The following list is contains passages with ARCH followed by a genitive.
Matt. 24:8 “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
objective gen "begins the birth pangs"
Matt. 24:21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not
occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.
subjective gen. "since the world began"
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
objective gen "begins the gospel" or subjective gen "the gospel begins"
Mark 10:6 “But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and
female.
subjective gen. "since creation began"
Mark 13:8 “For nation will arise against nation, and kingdom against
kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be
famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
objective gen "begins the birth pangs"
Mark 13:19 “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not
occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created, until now,
and never shall.
subjective gen. "since creation began"
John 2:11 This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and
manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.
objective gen. "began His signs"
Phil. 4:15 And you yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the beginning
of the gospel, after I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me in
the matter of giving and receiving but you alone;
subjective gen. "when the gospel began"
Heb. 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the
beginning of our assurance firm until the end;
attributive gen. assured beginning; attributed gen. beginning assurance;
possibly objective gen. "began our assurance"
Heb. 7:3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither
beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides a
priest perpetually.
objective gen. "begin life"
2Pet. 3:4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since
the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of
creation.”
subjective gen. "since creation began"
Rev. 3:14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the
faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
objective gen. "begins creation"
As you can see in all of the passages above, ARCH is a verbal noun and thus
takes a verbal genitive, i.e., a genitve that is either subjective or
objective.
GREG:
In what sense is the genitive here (THS KTISEWS) verbal?
CHARLES:
It is verbal in the sense that it acts as the object of the verbal head noun,
i.e., an objective gen.
As far as the illustration goes, I admit it was a bad one. The following one
is a bit better.
In the creation of a building, who is the creator? The architect, the
contractor, or the construction crew. Each one will say. "I made this
building." The architect designs the building. He commissions the contractor
to build the building. The contractor hires and supervises the crew who
actually built the building. But all three are causal agents. All three would
say, "I built this building." All three were necessary to the construction of
the building.
This is somewhat analogous to the roles of God, Christ, and the Spirit in
creation, whether you look at it from a Trinitarian standpoint or not.
Charles E. Powell, Ph.D.
(h) cep7@aol.com
(w) cpowell@dts.edu
(h) 972-231-4166
(w) 214-841-3763
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