From: Wayne Leman (wleman@mcn.net)
Date: Tue Jan 30 2001 - 11:58:55 EST
Virgil graciously persisted:
<snip>
> It was at this point in your message of response Wayne, that you only
> quoted part of my message when you responded with....Virgil, you raise an
> excellent question, one which others have asked also.
> Unfortunately, it goes beyond the focus on the b-greek list. It would be
> most welcome on the Bible translation list
>
> I think it is important for the objection I am going to raise to this
> suggestion, that the rest of what I said be posted here. Which is...
>
> If sometimes we don't bring over into our language "the
> form" something was stated in....don't we run the risk of losing
reference,
> impact or emphasis?
No. Every aspect of language which can be done in one language can also be
done in another language. Translation, by definition, needs to ensure that
only the forms of the target language are used to do those things
(referential designation, impact, emphasis, figurative language, etc.). The
only exception to this translation principle I can think of would be for
speciality translations for certain audiences, such as interlinear
translations, or highly literal translations that can serve as a kind of
"crib" to assist Little Greeks or Little Hebrews in reading the biblical
texts in the original.
> Now I am not suggesting this for every instance.
> However, sometimes, as you stated clearly in the above mentioned
> reference....there is syntactical...lexical..and idiomatic borrowing
brought
> directly into another language.
This was done by the original authors of the text we are translating. I, as
a translator, cannot question what they have done. Theologically,
especially. But as a translator I do not have the same freedom to change
meaning in the target language by using foreign forms from the source
language. Besides, for the NT authors, when they used Semiticisms, they were
writing naturally for themselves. They thought in Semiticisms. These authors
were bilingual and wrote in diglossia. We don't have the situation in our
translation contexts today.
> It would seem to me this would be an
> important freedom we should sometimes have permission for, as we attempt
to
> put into our language what we ascertain to be what the Greek text actually
> "says." What think and say Ye?
>
> Having said this...I believe it is an important question to be
answered
> here on B-Greek since many here, as they are attempting to ascertain what
> the Greek says...restrict themselves on certain occasions according to
> different "rules" of grammar, syntax....and sometimes the rule of..." well
> it's not something acceptable or correct to bring form into another
> language. Yet, as I believe you pointed out Wayne, our writers of the New
> Testament did just that for what I presume to be...emphasis...impact, or
> perhaps...maybe to grab the attention with something ( as form ) out of
the
> ordinary.
Exactly, and we can do exactly the same thing with English. We just need to
be sure we don't use Greek or Hebrew syntax to try to do so, because it will
not be understood by fluent English speakers of English translations, unless
they are seminary graduates or otherwise trained in the non-English forms
imported to our translations. We can do everything rhetorically that was
done in Greek or Hebrew just fine using only natural English syntax and
vocabulary. And the result will be greater accuracy in translation, that is,
that the original message will be communicated more accurately to the users
of our English translations. Preserving the forms of a source language in
translation *always* distorts meaning in the target language translation,
*unless* the two languages happen to have the same forms *and* use them to
express the same meaning.
If there is chiasmus in the source text, one of its primary meanings is to
create a focal point in the middle of the chiasmus. The English language is
just as capable of indicating focal points as were Hebrew or Greek. English
just uses different syntax to do so. Different syntax, same meaning.
Accuracy is always the highest goal in translation, not preservation of form
(since the latter usually creates actual inaccuracy).
> My question is...can the bringing of the form of the Greek into
> say..English, be an acceptable "exception to the rule" of not bringing
> another language's form into the target language. Sometimes, that is.
No, not for translation. It was OK for the original authors, because they
were writing using their own thought forms, and they were naturally
bilingual and mixed elements of the two languages, and even more so, mixed
elements of the two cultural contexts in which they lived.
>
> How we word something even just to ourselves...is affected by what we
> give ourselves permission to do. I believe it is valuable information in
our
> quest of determining what the Greek text may legitimately be understood to
> mean....valuable information indeed that you have offered, stating that
some
> of the New Testament writers used the principle of borrowing form,
lexicon,
> and even idioms from another language, to express whatever it was they
were
> trying "to say."
Yes, it is valuable and important, but not for translation, rather for any
reference works which accompany translations for those people who want to go
beyond translations to learn what the forms were in the biblical languages.
I hope this makes sense, Virgil, whether it strikes a resonant chord or not.
I am speaking from years of immersion in the translation textbooks,
translation training, and translation experience, so I have a biased
perspective, but all of my observations are that following the techniques
taught by translation professionals result in translations which have the
highest degree of accuracy for the users of translations. That is my goal,
as well.
Sincerely,
Wayne
---
Wayne Leman
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Bible translation site: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/
---
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