From: virgil newkirk (virgilsalvage1@email.msn.com)
Date: Thu Feb 08 2001 - 02:59:36 EST
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 at 15:25...Cassian DelCogliano wrote...
In Luke, after Jesus predicts the passion to the twelve, the narrator
says:
KAI AUTOI OUDEN TOUTWN SUNHKAN KAI HN TO RHMA TOUTO KEKPUMMENON AP' AUTWN
KAI OUK EGINWSKON TA LEGOMENA (18:34)
Could EGINWSKON be a conative imperfect?
I would also think that the KAIs are used in such a way that co-ordination
is semantically subordination (I can't think of the technical name for that
at the moment). Does this seem correct?
If my two hunches are plausbile, I would tentatively translate this passage
as follows: "But none of these things made any sense to them, for [the
meaning of] his statement was being kept hidden from them--and yet they
were not even bothering to try to understand what was being said."
Any thoughts?
Cassian...
In view of what is at the first of verse 34..." KAI AUTOI " I think it
would be helpful to re-state the first thing you said....if I may? That
is...in Luke...after Jesus said among other things....I am going to be
handed over to all those other people that are not of us...they're going to
own me...they are going to use me as the ball in a game of kickball...they
are going to be cruel to me...they are going to spit on me....they are going
to beat me within an inch of my life..and then they are going to kill me...I
will be dead....and on the day..the one that is the third from all this
having happened, I will stand up!
This Cassian....I think puts into clear perspective what ...the emphatic
personal pronoun, AUTOI, means...." They themselves " and then the
genitive phrase AP' AUTWN...that which was characterized by being from
them, and from what was characterized by having come through them. Then
EGINWSKON....They had not been being able to come to know what was meant by
all this and were at that moment not being able to come to know what was
meant by all this.
Your question was...Could EGINWSKON be a conative imperfect?
I would say no...it isn't. It could not find representation here, as you
premised in your tentative translation. This was not a matter of any lack of
attitude...it was not from any particular kind of volitional failure on
their part. This is clearly shown by AUTOI...AP' ATUWM...and the imperfect
aspect of EGINWSKON. They simply were" not the man " that told them of all
that was going to happen.
May I say though...there is something about them that should be
emulated by any who read of these things....." they were willing to be with
Him....He was willing to do the dying and able to do the standing "
As for the KAI'S...they serve as common links between three similar
descriptions...here's one...here's another, and another.
And they, themselves...."none of what was characterized by having come
through these previously mentioned things" were they able to put together so
as to make any sense...and I had been being and was being the
saying...this...that had absolutely reached the point of being completely
hid....from...what was characterized by what had passed through them and
left it's distinction in them...so as to result in their being what they
are....no, never had they been understanding, and they were not
understanding the things being repeatedly received and repeatedly spoken....
Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah
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