From: Paul Schmehl (p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Tue Mar 27 2001 - 13:16:26 EST
According to LSJ, the word only appears in the Bible and in Poll. 6. 126
(which I assume is Pollux.) There are no other occurences of it in the
Greek texts that they house.
According to BAG ( I don't have BAGD ), the word occurs in Poll. 6, 30,
Test. Dan 5.5, LXX and Jude 7. I don't have access to Pollux or Dan, so I
can't check those out. Perhaps someone with access to the TLG could do a
more intensive search.
Also, according to LSJ (and Robertson's Word Studies), the word appears in
Genesis 38:24 in the LXX and is used metaphorically, of idolatry, in Ex
34:15 in the LXX.
I wonder why you think the *only* sin that was committed was inhospitality.
Do the relevant texts preclude the possibility that more than one sin was
involved? Also, if inhospitality *was* the only sin, why did God destroy
Sodom and Gomorrah? It's hard for me to imagine destroying thoses cities
simply (and only) because they were inhospitable.
Paul Schmehl
p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Leman" <wleman@mcn.net>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Cc: <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: [b-greek] ude 7
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim West" <jwest@Highland.Net>
>
>
> > At 09:06 AM 3/27/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >That sounds like a statement of fact, Jim, whereas I would think it
would
> be
> > >more accurate to phrase it as a statement of scholarly conclusion
> (perhaps,
> > >even, hypothesis). It seems to me a more scientific approach to the
> lexical
> > >semantics of EKPORNEUSASAI would be to look for all occurrences of the
> word
> > >and its morphological alternates in biblical as well as extra-biblical
> > >contexts and attempt to induce from all those occurrences what the
> meaning
> > >of the word was. I am *not* suggesting a meaning for the word, only
> > >addressing the issue of scientific methodology here.
> >
> > well it is a statement of fact that the sin of sodom was inhospitality.
>
> When did this sin take place? Before Genesis 19? If so, where is this sin
> described?
>
> Who was inhospitable, Lot (the righteous one who was saved from
destruction)
> for not welcoming the men who wanted to enter his house? The towns people
> for not welcoming the guests to their homes?
>
> > thats why i make it as a statement. it is also a fact that the rest of
> the
>
> > verse describes the sexual immorality of sodom and gomorrah. hence, in
> the
> > mind of jude, the two are NOT the same or he is being totally redundant.
> > now, that accusation can hardly be made of jude, who is so fond of
economy
> > of words that he scarcely (never) repeats himself in the text at all.
> > hence, the common understanding of ekporneuw is inadequate at best and
> > misleading at worst.
>
> I think that your logic here is reasonable, Jim, but it doesn't preclude
> some redundancy on Jude's part. Redundancy is a normal part of human
> language, even in the language of a writer like Jude who wrote
economically.
>
> The scientific tension here, then, would be between a small amount of
> redundancy versus a rather large leap in terms of lexical semantics in
your
> original question (see my closing comment).
>
> > therefore, and heres where my post became a question,
> > i wondered if anyone knew of any text where the word is used in the
sense
> of
> > ihospitible.
> > i truly appreciate your concern with my methodology but i can assure
you,
> i
> > have it well in hand.
> > so, do you know of any text where the word is used in this sense? (i
mean
> > besides here in jude of course)
>
> No, and I doubt that we will ever find one. In terms of statistical
> probability, there is so much lexical distance between the core meanings
of
> EKPORNEUW and AFILOFRONWS (and related forms) that it is highly unlikely
> (scientifically, that is) that we will ever find any relationship between
> them, even metaphorically. But we've been up against slim odds before and
> have found new language insights, so your original question is still
> appropriate to ask.
>
> Wayne
> ---
> Wayne Leman
> Bible translation site: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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