From: Ted Mann (theomann@earthlink.net)
Date: Sun Jun 03 2001 - 15:01:09 EDT
You know, I had no sooner posted the following message than it occurred to
me that this question is probably a good example of how translation often
requires a theological perspective, even though we correctly try to avoid
such discussions on the list. The placement of the comma in Luke 23:24 is a
translation-related issue, I think; but because its placement apparently
can't be determined on a strictly grammatical basis (so far as I know), the
translation of the passage becomes somewhat a matter of one's doctrinal
viewpoint. I know this is old stuff to veterans of biblical languages, but
I think there are many of us novices who too often think the rules of
grammar will usually solve our theological questions, when in fact
theological viewpoints are often needed to determine translation.
Ted
Dr. Theodore H. Mann
theomann@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Mann" <theomann@earthlink.net>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:12 PM
Subject: [b-greek] Re: Luke 23:43 .Was the thief with Jesus in pardise the
same day?
> I gather from other responses to Harry's question that the comma can
> grammatically be placed in either spot. (Maybe it should be left out
> altogether?) The significance of its placement seems to be entirely
> theological. Besides what others have said, I know a few people who like
to
> associate SHEMERON with the first clause because they believe that upon
> death people enter a non-communicative sleep until the resurrection. To
> have them in Paradise with Christ immediately following death implies that
> they are mistaken. I'm not at all suggesting that the theological issues
be
> debated on b-Greek; only that the placement of the comma does make a big
> difference to many individuals, and a definitive resolution to the
question
> would be helpful. If an answer to Harry's question can in fact be
> determined, it apparently lies beyond the realm of grammar.
>
> Ted
> Dr. Theodore H. Mann
> theomann@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim West" <jwest@highland.net>
> To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:22 AM
> Subject: [b-greek] Re: Luke 23:43 .Was the thief with Jesus in pardise the
> same day?
>
>
> > At 07:32 PM 6/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > >To all B-Greekers,
> > >
> > >Since in the original manuscripts there where no punctuation marks,the
> > >question is why not,
> > > "...AMHN SOI LEGW SHMERON, MET' EMOU ESH EN TW PARADEISW"
> > >INSTEAD OF, "...AMHN SOI LEGW, SHMERON MET' EMOU ESH EN TW PARADEISW"?
> > >
> > >Harry W. Jones
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > well you are correct. however, whichever reading you adopt- the meaning
> is
> > essentially the same..
> >
> > today i tell you, you will be with me in paradise
> > is the same as
> > i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.
> >
> > either way the thief is going to go where jesus goes.
> >
> >
> > best
> >
> > jim
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Jim West, ThD
> >
> > Home Page:
> > Biblical Studies Resources
> > http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> >
> >
>
>
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