From: Joe Crane (JoeCrane@NavigatorServices.com)
Date: Sat Aug 11 2001 - 20:03:19 EDT
> How do Bailey, Boswell & Scroggs reach their conclusions? (It seems to me
> that this should be considered a legitimate b-Greek issue until evidence
of
> antagonism appears.)
>
> Ted
>
> Dr. Theodore H. Mann
The following are direct quotes from:
Young, James B. De. "The Source and NT Meaning of ARSENKOITOS, with
implications for Christian
Ethics and Ministry." The Master's Seminary Journal. Volume 3, #2, Fall
1992.
".Bailey limits the term's reference in Paul's works to acts alone and
laments the modern translations of the term as 'homosexuals.' Bailey wants
to distinguish between 'the homosexual condition (which is morally neutral)
and homosexual practices.'" (2)
"His [Boswell] argument is that the arseno- part of the word is adjectival,
not the object of the koitai which refers to base sexual activity. Hence
the term, according to Boswell, designates a male sexual person or male
prostitute." (3)
"Both on the basis of the meaning of the terms and of the literary
phenomenon of a 'catalogue of vices,' Scroggs argues that the Scriptures are
'irrelevant and provide no help in the heated debate today.' The 'model in
today's Christian homosexual community is so different from the model
attacked by the New Testament' that 'Biblical judgments against
homosexuality are not relevant to today's debate. They should no longer be
used in denominational discussions." (6)
Scroggs translates 1:10 as "male-prostitutes, males who lie [with them], and
slave dealers [who procure them]". (5)
Joe Crane
CEO, Navigator Business Services
The Write Tools for Your Business
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Mann" <theomann@earthlink.net>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: [b-greek] Re: ARSENKOITOS
> Joe:
>
> How do Bailey, Boswell & Scroggs reach their conclusions? (It seems to me
> that this should be considered a legitimate b-Greek issue until evidence
of
> antagonism appears.)
>
> Ted
>
> Dr. Theodore H. Mann
> theomann@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Crane" <JoeCrane@NavigatorServices.com>
> To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 9:57 AM
> Subject: [b-greek] Re: ARSENKOITOS
>
>
> > > [I respond]
> > > What BAGD are you getting this from? My BAG (4th edition) defines it
"a
> > > male homosexual, pederast, sodomite".
> > I apologize about the poor definition I gave. I was simply trying to
note
> > that all of my research lead to the ARSENKOITOS being translated as
"male
> > homosexual, pederast, sodomite;" however, their is a group of scholars
> > (mainly DS Bailey, J Boswell, & R Scroggs) who translate/have translated
> > this word as "abusive homosexual partners, the effeminate call-boy,
> > male-prostitutes, pederasty" or other such "non-standard" reditions. I
> was
> > only able to find works about them or about what they believed
ARSENKOITOS
> > to be, and never what they actually wrote or believed. That's what I
> meant
> > from the other side.
> >
> >
> > >>(And at this point, I think we've strayed so far from the Greek that
> it's
> > not profitable or even permissable to discuss it any >>further on the
> list.)
> >
> > Let me reiterate what I said in the original posting. I am not trying
to
> > get into the theology of whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I am
> > simply trying to open up the reasons for the alternative definitions.
> >
> > Joe Crane
> > CEO, Navigator Business Services
> > The Write Tools for Your Business
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> >
> >
>
>
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