From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Tue Feb 26 2002 - 07:45:29 EST
I believe that Carlton meant this message to go to the list rather than to
myself only.
>From: Clwinbery@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:13:09 EST
>Subject: Re: [b-greek] Re: pluperfect in Mt12.46
>To: cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
>
>In a message dated 2/25/02 7:58:04 AM Central Standard Time,
>cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu writes:
>
>> At 8:18 AM -0500 2/25/02, Rbsads@aol.com wrote:
>> >Now that Carl has gently guided me to recognition of the pluperfect form,
>I
>> >see it everywhere.
>> >
>> >12.46-47 ETI AUTOU LALOUNTOS TOIS OCLOIS IDOU hH MHTHR KAI hOI ADELFOI
>> AUTOU
>> >hEISTHKEISAN EXW ZHTOUNTES AUTW LALHSAI. (47) EIPEN DE TIS AUTW, IDOU hH
>> >MHTHR SOU KAI hOI ADELFOI SOU EXW hESTHKASIN ZHTOUNTES SOI LALHSAI.
>> >
>> >Does the use of the pluperfect in Mt 12.46 mean that Jesus' mother and
>> >brothers had stood outside, but are not now standing outside? The
>> different
>> >translations do not seem to render any significance to the tense.
>> >
>> >If the pluperfect means that they are no longer outside, then does the
>use
>> of
>> >the perfect in verse 47 imply that that verse has an earlier time
>reference?
>>
>>
>> No; one thing important to understand about perfect and pluperfect is that
>> they are correlative with present and imperfect: they indicate a condition
>> or status that holds currently (present perfect) or that was holding at
>> some time previously (pluperfect). Moreover there are a few verbs that
>> require a perfect tense to indicate present status, and one of these is
>> hISTHMI/hISTAMAI. The present tense hISTAMAI means "I am in the process of
>> rising to a standing position" or else "I am coming to a standstill from a
>> moving position." In order to say "I am standing," one must in Greek use
>> the present perfect, hESTHKA (lit. "I have reached a standing position");
>> to put that into the past and say "I was standing," one must in Greek use
>> the pluperfect hEISTHKH or hEISTHKEIN (lit., "I had reached a standing
>> position--and was remaining in it").
>>
>> Another verb operating the same was is OIDA: although technically a perfect
>> tense, this has the force of a present: "I know" = "I have a fully-formed
>> mental vision") and to say "I knew" using this verb-stem, one must
>> write/say HiDEIN.
>>
>> So one must be aware of the distinctive, almost idiomatic usage of these
>> two verbs, OIDA and hISTAMAI: they are very common verbs (and there are
>> many compounds of hISTAMAI as well) and their perfect and pluperfect forms
>> refer to states/conditions in the present or the past respectively rather
>> than to completed actions as such. So above: hEISTHKEISAN is equivalent to
>> imperfect "were standing" and hESTHKASIN is equivalent to a present, "are
>> standing."
>
>A well known example of the use of the perfect this way in combination with a
>present verb (which is often used in Johannine writings) is Rev. 3:20 IDOU
>hESTHKA EPI THN QURAN KAI KROUW. "Behold I stand (perfect) at the door and
>knock" (present). Its almost as if he is saying "I have taken up my stand and
>am knocking." In 1 John the combination of perfect of knowing, experiencing,
>etc. is combined with the present as the language of witness.
>
>Carlton Winbery
>Louisiana College
>
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