From: Iver Larsen (iver_larsen@sil.org)
Date: Wed Apr 17 2002 - 04:15:54 EDT
>
> in John 8:58 the following well known phrase appears:
>
> prin Abraam genesthai egw eimi
>
> Does the following statement by Burton apply to this phrase?
>
> "The Present of Past Action still in Progress. The Present Indicative,
> accompanied by an adverbial expression denoting duration and referring to
> past time, is sometimes used in Greek ... to describe an action which,
> beginning in past time, is still in progress at the time of speaking.
> English idiom requires the use of the Perfect in such cases."
> (e.a.)-Ernest
> De Witt Burton, Syntax of the Moods And Tenses in New Testament Greek, p.
> 10, section 17."
>
> If Burton's comments do apply to this passage, what is your opinion on his
> accuracy? Hence, can it be said that "ego eimi" (present tense)
> linked with
> the adverbial past-tense phrase "prin Abraam genesthai" implies that ego
> "was" in the past "prin Abraam genesthai" and has continued to "be" until
> the time of speaking?
> ______________________
>
> Rather than comment myself, I append Wallace's discussion from
> _Greek Grammar
> Beyond the Basics_.
>
> III. Special Uses of the Present Tense
>
> Five uses of the present tense do not easily fit into the above
> categories.
> These include the historical present, perfective present,
> conative present,
It is clear that Jn 8:58 is not a historical present, but does Wallace mention the possibility of perfective present here? Are there other examples of an adverbial temporal expression combined with a present tense?
It is part of the picture that the verb EIMI does not have a perfect tense, and hardly any aspect. It is simply a present, imperfective=past, future verb. It has no aorist form. Using the past tense in 8:58 would only communicate that Jesus was in existence before Abraham and nothing about him still being in existence. It would suggest that the person who existed before Abraham might be a different person from the one now standing before them.
Does Wallace deal with a "timeless" present? A present tense that focuses on general existence without any particular beginning or end? Is that one of the "above categories"?
GINOMAI is used to supplement EIMI in some of the aspectual tenses, but if Jesus had said "I came into being before Abraham did" this would conflict with Jesus always having existed and never "coming into being".
A search of the archives, should unearth several past postings on this question, but not necessarily any clear or definite answers.
It would be interesting to hear what Jesus would probably have said in Hebrew/Aramaic and whether this throws light on the issue. The normal Greek rendering of the special title of YHWH seems to be hO WN.
Iver Larsen
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