Article: 215646 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Terry O'Neill" References: <8ov7e1lhgg8scnvi1cu7klm8e80ttq0tc9@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Balanced vs. Unbalanced Tuner Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:26:07 GMT Just a note: With a link-coupled tuner you can use either a balanced line (ladder line, tv twin-lead) fed antenna or a coax fed antenna. It handles either equally well. Used Johnson Matchboxes are still fairly common on ebay in the $100 price range. I use mine for all bands 80-10. If you want to roll your own link coupled tuner see: http://www.amfone.net/ECSound/K1JJ13.htm Article: 215647 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <11eargq80o2fe96@corp.supernews.com> <11036-42E59190-180@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: UHF antenna for Sat ops Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:55:16 -0500 Message-ID: <42e63314_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Richard Harrison" >I understand. My strugle with TV reflections involved antennas atop the >corporate headquarters. We had to have a perfect color picture in the >executive lounge and there was no cable yet. The founder, chairmman and >CEO was proud of his luxury and toys. We had a lot of signal, but too >many signals due to other skyscrapers around ours. With sharp enough >antennas we were able to clean up the mess. Better a hero than a goat! _____________ Here's another war story. Many Chicago TV stations moved to the new Hancock Bldg to use one of the RCA antennas that were stacked there on two masts. When one of the big network O&O stations flipped the switch to start using this new site, the on-air picture at their studio turned to absolute garbage, right in front of all the executive staff gathered in a boardroom to celebrate. The studio was located about four blocks from the Hancock Bldg, and close to the null in the elevation pattern of the new 2-bay antenna they had switched to. Most of the RF they could pick up was from reflections. I think they finally installed a very high gain antenna skewed upward up at a large elevation angle focused at the top of the Hancock Bldg, but the best picture they got was never very good. RF (RCA field supervisor during the installation and commissioning of the TV antenna systems) Article: 215648 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:47:21 -0700 V2VsbCwgdGhhdCBpcyBqdXN0IGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IHN5c3RlbSB0aGFuIEkgYW0gdXNlZCB0by4N Cg0KVGFrZSBib29rcyBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgd2hlbiBnZXR0aW5nIGEgbmV3IG9uZXMsIGluIGEg c2VyaWVzLCBJIGhhcmRseSBldmVyIHJlLXJlYWQgdGhlIG9sZCBvbmUganVzdCB0byBnZXQgYSBz dGFydCBvbiB0aGUgbmV3IG9uZS4gIE1hZ2F6aW5lcyB3b3JrIHRoZSBzYW1lIGZvciBtZSwgSSBu ZXZlciByZS1yZWFkIHRoZSBqdW5lIGlzc3VlLCB3aGVuIGZpcnN0IGdldHRpbmcgdGhlIGp1bHkg aXNzdWUsIGp1c3QgdG8gZ2V0IGEgcHJvcGVyIHN0YXJ0IG9uIHRoaXMgbmV3IGlzc3VlLg0KDQpP ciwgdGFrZSBlbXB0eWluZyB0aGUgZ2FyYmFnZSBhcyBhbm90aGVyIGV4YW1wbGUuIEkgaGFyZGx5 IGV2ZXIgc2V0IHRoZSBvbGQgYmFnIGluIGZyb250IG9mIHRoZSBuZXcgb25lLCBzbyB0aGF0IG9u Y2UgYWdhaW4gSSB3aWxsIGJlIGZvcmNlZCB0byBkZWFsIHdpdGggdGhlIG9sZCBiYWcgYmVmb3Jl IEkgY2FuIGVtcHR5IHRoZSBuZXcuDQoNCkJ1dCBoZXksIHdoYXQgZG8gSSBrbm93Pw0KDQpBbGwg SSBkbyBrbm93IGlzIEkgYW0gTk9UIHJlc3BvbnNpYmxlIGZvciBmb3JtYXR0aW5nIG90aGVycyB0 ZXh0LCB0aGV5IGNhbiBkbyB0aGF0IHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMuLi4NCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiV2FsdCBEYXZp ZHNvbiIgPGczbnl5QGRlc3BhbW1lZC5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3czpwcHJiZTFo ZmFoZXN0NzZsb3U3MmVuaW9tdWk5aTRqNmRvQDRheC5jb20uLi4NCj4gT24gTW9uLCAyNSBKdWwg MjAwNSAwNDo1OToyNiBHTVQsIE51bllhIEJpZG5lc3MNCj4gPG51bnlhYmlkbmVzc0BudW55YWJp ZG5lc3Mub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+PiAgUGxhY2luZyB5b3VyIGFuc3dlciBpbiBmcm9udCBv ZiB0aGUgdGV4dCB5b3UgYXJlIHJlcGx5aW5nIHRvIElTDQo+PmJhY2t3YXJkcywgYXNzLg0KPiAN Cj4gTm90IG9ubHkgaXMgaXQgYmFja3dhcmRzIC4uLiBpdCBpcyBhbHNvIGJhY2t3YXJkIQ0KPiAN Cj4gLS0gDQo+IFdhbHQgRGF2aWRzb24gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgRW1h aWw6IGczbnl5IEBkZXNwYW1tZWQuY29t Article: 215649 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:02:30 -0700 TnVuWWEgTnVtTnV0czoNCg0KT2hoLCBJIGtub3cgaG93IElUIFVTRUQgVE8gQkUuLi4NCg0KU29t ZSBqdXN0IGRvbid0IHJlYWxpemUgSE9XIElUIElTIE5PVy4NCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiTnVuWWEgQmlk bmVzcyIgPG51bnlhYmlkbmVzc0BudW55YWJpZG5lc3Mub3JnPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5l d3M6cnVqY2UxNWlsMHZ2b3VxaDJubTZhanBmamYzcm1tdnNrdUA0YXguY29tLi4uDQo+IE9uIFR1 ZSwgMjYgSnVsIDIwMDUgMDc6NDc6MjEgLTA3MDAsICJKb2huIFNtaXRoIg0KPiA8YXNzZW1ibHl3 aXphcmRAZ21haWwuY29tPiBHYXZlIHVzOg0KPiANCj4+QnV0IGhleSwgd2hhdCBkbyBJIGtub3c/ DQo+IA0KPiBOb3QgYSBkYW1uZWQgdGhpbmcsIHdoZW4gaXQgY29tZXMgdG8gVXNlbmV0Lg== Article: 215650 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:14:44 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> Message-ID: <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Smith wrote: > Take books for example, when getting a new ones, in a series, I > hardly ever re-read the old one just to get a start on the new one. Yes, but do you read the last chapter of the book first? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215651 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Reflections Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:04:30 -0700 VzVEWFA6DQoNClJpY2hhcmQgaXMgY29uc3VsdGluZyB3aXRoIHNoYWtlc3BlYXJlIG9uIHRoZSBz dWJqZWN0IHJpZ2h0IG5vdywgaGUgd2lsbCBnZXQgYmFjayB0byB5b3UuLi4NCg0KSm9obg0KDQoi VzVEWFAiIDx3NWR4cEBob3RtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjExMjIzOTM1 MTEuMDEyMDY3LjIzMjg5MEBnMTRnMjAwMGN3YS5nb29nbGVncm91cHMuY29tLi4uDQo+IFJpY2hh cmQgQ2xhcmsgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBOb3cgd2UgdmVudHVyZSB0byBuZXcgbWF0ZXJpYWxzLCBhbmQg aW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlIGEgc29sYXIgY2VsbCwNCj4+IGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiB0ZXh0IGFzOg0KPj4N Cj4+ICAgICAxdyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB8ICAgICAxLzRXTCAgICAgfA0KPj4gICAgIGxhc2Vy LS0tLS1haXItLS0tLXwtLS10aGluLWZpbG0tLS18LS0tR2VybWFuaXVtLS0tLi4uDQo+PiAgICAg ICAgICAgIDFzdCBtZWRpdW0gfCAgIDJuZCBtZWRpdW0gIHwgM3JkIG1lZGl1bQ0KPj4gICAgICAg ICAgICAgbiA9IDEuMCAgIEEgICAgbiA9IDIgICAgICBCICAgbiA9IDQuMDQNCj4gDQo+IEkgaGF2 ZSBhZGRlZCBwb2ludHMgJ0EnIGFuZCAnQicgdG8gUmljaGFyZCdzIGRpYWdyYW0uDQo+IA0KPiBM ZXQncyBtYWtlIHRoZSBtYXRoIHNpbXBsZSBieSBoYXZpbmcgdGhlIGluZGV4IG9mIHJlZnJhY3Rp b24sDQo+IG4sIG9mIHRoZSAzcmQgbWVkaXVtIGJlIGVxdWFsIHRvIDQuMC4gVGhlIHBvd2VyIHJl ZmxlY3Rpb24NCj4gY29lZmZpY2llbnQgaXMgMC4xMTExIGFuZCB0aGUgcG93ZXIgdHJhbnNtaXNz aW9uIGNvZWZmaWNpZW50DQo+IGlzIDAuODg4OS4gQWxsIHBvd2VycyB3aWxsIGJlIHN0YXRlZCBp biBtVy4NCj4gDQo+IFNpbmNlIG4yID0gc3FydChuMSpuNCksIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gd2lsbCBiZSBy ZWZsZWN0aW9ubGVzcw0KPiBpbiB0aGUgMXN0IG1lZGl1bS4gUHJvb2Ygb2YgdGhhdCBhc3NlcnRp b24gd2lsbCBiZSBsZWZ0DQo+IHRvIHRoZSByZWFkZXIgYnV0IHRoYXQgaXMgYSBuZWNlc3Nhcnkg YW5kIHN1ZmZpY2llbnQNCj4gY29uZGl0aW9uIGZvciBhIGxvc3NsZXNzIHN5c3RlbS4NCj4gDQo+ IEhlcmUgaXMgdGhlIHRyYW5zaWVudCBzdGF0ZSBvZiB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIGFuIGluc3RhbnQNCj4g YWZ0ZXIgdGhlIGZpcnN0IGludGVybmFsIHJlZmxlY3Rpb24gZnJvbSBwb2ludCBCIGFycml2ZXMN Cj4gYmFjayBhdCBwb2ludCBBLg0KPiANCj4gMXN0IG1lZGl1bSAgICAybmQgbWVkaXVtICAgICAg ICAzcmQgbWVkaXVtDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgQSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgQg0KPiAxMDAwbVct LT4tLXwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHwNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICB8LS0+LS04ODguOW1XLS0+LS18 DQo+IDExMS4xbVctLTwtLXwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHwtLT4tLTc5MC4xbVcNCj4gICAgICAg ICAgICB8LS08LS05OC43Nm1XLS08LS18DQo+IDg3Ljc5bVctLTwtLXwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IHwNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICB8LS0+LS0xMC45N21XDQo+IA0KPiBTaW5jZSB0aGUgMm5kIG1lZGl1 bSBpcyAxLzRXTCwgaW4gdGhlIDFzdCBtZWRpdW0sIHRoZQ0KPiAxMTEuMW1XIGV4dGVybmFsIHJl ZmxlY3Rpb24gd2lsbCBiZSAxODAgZGVncmVlcyBvdXQNCj4gb2YgcGhhc2Ugd2l0aCB0aGUgODcu NzltVyBpbnRlcm5hbCB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gbGVhdmluZw0KPiB2ZXJ5IGxpdHRsZSBvZiB0aGUg ZXh0ZXJuYWwgcmVmbGVjdGlvbiB1bmNhbmNlbGVkLiBBDQo+IHF1aWNrIGNhbGN1bGF0aW9uIGlu ZGljYXRlcyAxLjM3bVcgbGVmdCB1bmNhbmNlbGVkLg0KPiANCj4gV2hlbiB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIGlu dGVybmFsIHJlZmxlY3Rpb24gZnJvbSBwb2ludCBCDQo+IGFycml2ZXMgYmFjayBhdCBwb2ludCBB LCBtb3JlIHdhdmUgY2FuY2VsbGF0aW9uDQo+IHdpbGwgb2NjdXIuIEFmdGVyIHZlcnkgZmV3IGl0 ZXJhdGlvbnMgb2YgcmVmbGVjdGlvbnMsDQo+IHRoZSAxMTEuMW1XIGV4dGVybmFsIHJlZmxlY3Rp b24gd2lsbCBiZSBjYW5jZWxlZC4NCj4gQXMgaW4gdGhlIGVhcmxpZXIgZXhhbXBsZSwgdGhlIHJl c3VsdCBpcyBmbGF0IGJsYWNrDQo+IGZvciByZWZsZWN0aW9ucyBpbiB0aGUgMXN0IG1lZGl1bS4N Cj4gDQo+IFJpY2hhcmQgQ2xhcmsgc2V6Og0KPj4gQXMgeW91IG1heSBndWVzcyBJIGFtIGdvaW5n IHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBCVw0KPj4gY29ycmVjdGlvbiB0byBmaW5kIHRoYXQgdGhlIHVuLWNh bmNlbGxlZCByZWZsZWN0aW9uIHByb2R1Y3RzIGhhdmUNCj4+ICAgICAgICAgMTgwMCBUSU1FUyBN T1JFIFBPV0VSIFRIQU4gVEhFIFNVTiENCj4gDQo+IDE4MDAgVElNRVMgTU9SRSBQT1dFUiBUSEFO IFRIRSBTVU4gZnJvbSBmbGF0IGJsYWNrPz8/Pw0KPiBRdWljaywgUmljaGFyZCwgZ2V0IGEgcGF0 ZW50IG9uIHRoYXQgcHJvY2Vzcy4NCj4gDQo+IFNvbWVvbmUgc2VudCBtZSBhbiBlbWFpbCB3b25k ZXJpbmcgaWYgUmljaGFyZCBDLiBoYXMgYSBkZWF0aA0KPiB3aXNoLiA6LSkNCj4gLS0NCj4gNzMs IENlY2lsICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnFzbC5uZXQvdzVkeHANCj4= Article: 215652 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:42:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Dear Cec, a long time ago I found a copy of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" in my hands. Translated from the French. I think I had to catch a train. At any rate I didn't have a lot of time to spare. So I read the last few sentences in the book. I was immediately fascinated. I then speed-read the last chapter which was all I had time for. I made a mental note to read the rest of it should the occasion arise. Some years later, by chance, in a strange town, with nothing better to do, I called in a cinema. The film was Charles Laughton as the Hunchback on the pillory pleading to the crowd for water. The gipsy girl gave him a flask I then obtained the book via my local Carneague public library and read the whole thing at a single sitting. They don't write beautiful books like that anymore. Books which read just as well either forwards of backwards. The Carneague library, a present to my home town from the generous USA before I was born, still stands and still much used, amidst the old Victorian, soot-darkened houses in the Black Country where it all began. By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. ---- Reg. Article: 215653 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <11eargq80o2fe96@corp.supernews.com> <11036-42E59190-180@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <1122372647.984318.318830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: UHF antenna for Sat ops Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:05:17 GMT "philnyc" wrote in message news:1122372647.984318.318830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > This is it ! http://members.aol.com/k5oe/ The Eggbeater2 guys, I > think ? > > . After reading Gerald's information on how to construct this antenna > I was left unclear about the dimensions table and all the digits shown > there. > > 1) What do they stand for, and how to apply them in the construcion of > the antenna ? > > And another thing: > > Is there any spacing between the loops when they cross eachother on > top and on the bottom ? > > How about the reflectors, they must be spaced out if they cross > eachother inside the boom ? How much is the space ? > > Thank you very much again. > > Phil Phil You might search on "Cebik". He shows very good information on how to build a Moxon Rectangle Turnstile. Jerry Article: 215654 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:20:05 -0700 SXQgaXMgYSB0ZXh0IGZvcnVtPw0KDQpXZWxsLCB5YSwgaWYgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgYXJlIE5PVCBh bGxvd2VkLCB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0byB1c2UgdXVlbmNvZGUgYW5kIHV1ZGVjb2RlIHRvIHNlbmQgYmlu YXJ5IGRhdGEhISEgKGFuZCBpbmNsdWRlIGl0IElOIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIHRleHQpDQoNCldlbGwg ZHVoIQ0KDQpJZiB5b3UgbmVlZCBhIHR1dG9yaWFsIG9uIGhvdyB0byB1c2UgdXVlbmNvZGUsIEkg Y2FuIGZ1cm5pc2ggeW91IHdpdGggb25lLS10aGUgb25seSByZWFzb24geW91IGRvIE5PVCBzZWUg aXQgaGVyZSBpcyB0aGF0LCBJIHN1c3BlY3QsIG1vc3QgYXJlIGlnbm9yYW50IHRvIGhvdyBpdCBp cyB1c2VkLg0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiJOdW5ZYSBCaWRuZXNzIiA8bnVueWFiaWRuZXNzQG51bnlhYmlk bmVzcy5vcmc+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3czpoMHJjZTFwczFlc3Q5YmZqcnVmcjlpdGJk MmhjNGJ0MTE4QDRheC5jb20uLi4NCj4gT24gVHVlLCAyNiBKdWwgMjAwNSAwODowMjozMCAtMDcw MCwgIkpvaG4gU21pdGgiDQo+IDxhc3NlbWJseXdpemFyZEBnbWFpbC5jb20+IEdhdmUgdXM6DQo+ IA0KPj5OdW5ZYSBOdW1OdXRzOg0KPj4NCj4+T2hoLCBJIGtub3cgaG93IElUIFVTRUQgVE8gQkUu Li4NCj4gDQo+ICBJIGtub3cgdGhhdCB5b3UncmUgYW4gaWRpb3QuDQo+Pg0KPj5Tb21lIGp1c3Qg ZG9uJ3QgcmVhbGl6ZSBIT1cgSVQgSVMgTk9XLg0KPiANCj4gIFRoYXQnZCBiZSB5b3UgYXMgd2Vs bC4gIE5vdGhpbmcgaGFzIGNoYW5nZWQuDQo+IA0KPiAgSXQgaXMgYSB0ZXh0IGJhc2VkIGZvcnVt LiBHZXQgdXNlZCB0byBpdC4NCj4gDQo+ICBMb29rIHVwIHRoZSB3b3JkIGNocm9ub2xvZ3ku Article: 215655 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: UHF antenna for Sat ops Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11eargq80o2fe96@corp.supernews.com> <11036-42E59190-180@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <1122372647.984318.318830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> > > . After reading Gerald's information on how to construct this antenna > > I was left unclear about the dimensions table and all the digits shown > > there. > > > > 1) What do they stand for, and how to apply them in the construcion of > > the antenna ? > > > > And another thing: > > > > Is there any spacing between the loops when they cross eachother on > > top and on the bottom ? > > > > How about the reflectors, they must be spaced out if they cross > > eachother inside the boom ? How much is the space ? > > > > Thank you very much again. > > ============================ Would you like him to come along and build it for you? Article: 215656 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:26:11 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Reg Edwards wrote: > By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about English food. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215657 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:37:59 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> Message-ID: <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Smith wrote: > If you need a tutorial on how to use uuencode, I can furnish > you with one-- Somehow, I don't think the authors of the usenet guidelines had a uuencoded file in mind when they said "text only". :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215658 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:42:16 -0400 Message-ID: At what point may we be sure the equine has assumed room temperature and the tenderizing process has ceased? "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > John Smith wrote: > > If you need a tutorial on how to use uuencode, I can furnish > > you with one-- > > Somehow, I don't think the authors of the usenet guidelines > had a uuencoded file in mind when they said "text only". :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215659 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:46:23 -0700 Q2VjaWw6DQoNCk9oIG5vLiAgVGhlIGFkdmVudCBvZiB0aGUgIlBzeWNoaWMgSGFtIiBhbmQgdGhl IGhhbXMgbm93IGNhbiB0ZWxsIHVzIHdoYXQgRVZFUllPTkUgaGFzL2hhZCBpbiBtaW5kISEhDQoo SSBoYXRlIHRob3NlIGRhbW4gbWluZCByZWFkZXJzISkgPGdyaW4+DQoNCk15IGdhd2QsIEkgY2Fu bm90IGtlZXAgdXAgd2l0aCBzdWNoIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kuLi4gSSBhbSBnb2luZyB0byBoYXZlIHRv IHR1cm4gaW50byBBcnQgQmVsbCBtb3JlIG9mdGVuISAgVGhhdCBpcyB3aGF0IEkgZ2V0IGZvciBt YWtpbmcgZnVuIG9mIHdheW5lIGdyZWVuZSA8ZnJvd24+DQoNCldhcm1lc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCkpv aG4NCg0KIkNlY2lsIE1vb3JlIiA8dzVkeHBAaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2Ug bmV3czo0MmU2NzYwMyQxXzJAc3Bvb2w5LXdlc3Quc3VwZXJmZWVkLm5ldC4uLg0KPiBKb2huIFNt aXRoIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gSWYgeW91IG5lZWQgYSB0dXRvcmlhbCBvbiBob3cgdG8gdXNlIHV1ZW5j b2RlLCBJIGNhbiBmdXJuaXNoIA0KPiA+IHlvdSB3aXRoIG9uZS0tDQo+IA0KPiBTb21laG93LCBJ IGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIG9mIHRoZSB1c2VuZXQgZ3VpZGVsaW5lcw0KPiBoYWQg YSB1dWVuY29kZWQgZmlsZSBpbiBtaW5kIHdoZW4gdGhleSBzYWlkICJ0ZXh0IG9ubHkiLiA6LSkN Cj4gLS0gDQo+IDczLCBDZWNpbCAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5xc2wubmV0L3c1ZHhwDQo+IA0KPiANCj4g LS0tLT09IFBvc3RlZCB2aWEgTmV3c2ZlZWRzLkNvbSAtIFVubGltaXRlZC1VbmNlbnNvcmVkLVNl Y3VyZSBVc2VuZXQgTmV3cz09LS0tLQ0KPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm5ld3NmZWVkcy5jb20gVGhlICMx IE5ld3Nncm91cCBTZXJ2aWNlIGluIHRoZSBXb3JsZCEgPjEwMCwwMDAgTmV3c2dyb3Vwcw0KPiAt LS09IEVhc3QvV2VzdC1Db2FzdCBTZXJ2ZXIgRmFybXMgLSBUb3RhbCBQcml2YWN5IHZpYSBFbmNy eXB0aW9uID0tLS0= Article: 215660 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> From: andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: 26 Jul 2005 17:57:48 GMT Message-ID: <42e6799b$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> In article <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, Cecil Moore writes: > Reg Edwards wrote: >> By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. > > Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about > English food. Was that before or after an English resturant won both the 2004 best resturant in Europe and best resturant in the World titles? ;-) -- Andrew Gabriel Article: 215661 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Reflections Date: 26 Jul 2005 13:08:53 -0500 Message-ID: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> >Here is the transient state of the system an instant >after the first internal reflection from point B arrives >back at point A. > > 1st medium 2nd medium 3rd medium > A B > 1000mW-->--| | > |-->--888.9mW-->--| >111.1mW--<--| |-->--790.1mW > |--<--98.76mW--<--| >87.79mW--<--| | > |-->--10.97mW You are correct that in this system (1/4-wave matching layer), the total reflectance goes to zero. However, your understanding of superposition is wrong. You CANNOT superimpose POWERS, or even talk about the "power" of various reflections in the same media. You can only add the wave amplitudes (electric fields). THEN you take the total amplitude and square that to get the power. Tor N4OGW Article: 215662 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: Warning - N9NLU (Dave Schmidt) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:22:49 -0400 Message-ID: References: <3htgd1laqd04dgnopn5nebtahe9lkjjsft@4ax.com> DOUGLAS SNOWDEN wrote: > He was on multiple out of town trips. The coax is on the way. He was just > busy... > > Doug N4IJ How about that? I wonder how many people are going to want to sell anything to you now? Something a bit awry, with the deal, and you defame them on the internet. You do get points for owning up to your mistake, though.... - Mike - > "Kingfish Stevens" wrote in message > news:3htgd1laqd04dgnopn5nebtahe9lkjjsft@4ax.com... > >>I have dealt with him before with no problems, so this surprises me. >>But, if you used a Postal money order, then he has committed mail >>fraud, something that can get you snatched back into reality damn >>fast. >>Kingfish >> >>On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:17:23 GMT, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN" >> wrote: >> >> >>>Just a warning to beware of dealing with N9NLU. He promised me 175 ft of >>>RG-11 coax and I sent him a money order for it. He acknowledged receiving >>>the money but has not sent the coax. This all occurred over a month and a >>>half ago. He does not respond to E-mail. >>> >>>I have not given up on him yet, but told him I would put out this warning. >>> >>>Doug, N4IJ >>> >> > > Article: 215663 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:38:55 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote > Reg Edwards wrote: > > By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. > > Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about > English food. > -- > 73, Cecil ============================= Cec, I am not aware of what Jacques might have said about English cod and chips. Everybody to his own tastes. But I do object to the USA tendency to confuse politics with diet, to mix up CIA invented non-existent weapons of mass destruction, and oil wells and pipelines with frogs legs and snails. French politicians have weighed up the present international situation very accurately and honestly. And acted, not always in accordance with their own interests, but everybody's. After all, in 1793, they were the first of the true revolutionaries. Vive La France! And, of course, their wine. ---- Reg. Article: 215664 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Eric Delongchamp Subject: Transmission Line Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Hi ! I want to put up a 40m dipole antenna and my question is what a transmission line to use, I have two defferent type of twin lead to choose from, one is 75 ohm and a TV 300 ohm line. I'm using Yeasu 747 GX and MFJ 949 E for equiment. Thanks Eric D. Article: 215665 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) 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cyBJIGFtIGdvaW5nIHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBCVw0KPiBjb3JyZWN0aW9uIHRvIGZpbmQgdGhh dCB0aGUgdW4tY2FuY2VsbGVkIHJlZmxlY3Rpb24gcHJvZHVjdHMgaGF2ZQ0KPiAxODAwIFRJTUVT IE1PUkUgUE9XRVIgVEhBTiBUSEUgU1VOIQ0KPiANCj4gNzMncw0KPiBSaWNoYXJkIENsYXJrLCBL QjdRSEM= Article: 215667 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Reflections Date: 26 Jul 2005 14:54:49 -0500 Message-ID: <87sly1737a.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> >Hi Tor, > >This is all taken care of in the equation for energy conservation that >I posted. The solution is valid barring a simple error of subtraction >that should read: > 110mW - 98mW Not sure which indices you are now referring to: n_3=4.0 or 4.04? With 4.0, there is zero reflected light. With 4.04 there is a small amount. Tor N4OGW Article: 215668 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:27:11 -0700 QmVuOg0KDQpHaXZlIHVzIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGV4YW1wbGVzIG9mIHdoYXQgeW91IHRoaW5rIGFy ZSBkaWZmaWN1bHQsIHJlbGV2YW50IGFuZCBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMsIGxldCB1cyBz ZWUgaG93IGRpZmZpY3VsdCB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyAicm9ja2V0IHNjaWVuY2UiIGlzLCBleGFj dGx5Pw0KDQpJbmRlZWQsIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB5b3UgYXJlIGhhdmluZyBhIHBy b2JsZW0gd2l0aCwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHRob3NlIGhlcmUgd2hpY2ggY2FuIGhlbHAgeW91Li4uDQoN CkpvaG4NCg0KIkJlbiBKYWNrc29uIiA8YmVuQGJlbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3 czpzbHJuZGVkNmozLjJ2bTUuYmVuQHNhdHVybi5ob21lLmJlbi5jb20uLi4NCj4gT24gMjAwNS0w Ny0yNSwgamdib3lsZXNAYW9sLmNvbSA8amdib3lsZXNAYW9sLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBKb2hu LCBXaHkgZGlkIHlvdSBnbyB0byBhbGwgdGhhdCB0cm91YmxlPyAgVGhlIHRlc3QgaXMgc28gZWFz eSBub3cgYQ0KPj4gIkNhdmUgTWFuIiBjb3VsZCBwYXNzIHRoZW0uDQo+IA0KPiBBY3R1YWxseSBJ IHRoaW5rIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBkdW1iZWQgZG93biBzbyBhIGNhdmUgbWFuIGNvdWxkIEdSQURFIHRo ZW0uDQo+IFRoYXQgZGljdGF0ZWQgbXVsdGlwbGUgY2hvaWNlLCBhbmQgaXQncyBoYXJkIHRvIG1h a2UgYSB0b3VnaCBtdWx0aXBsZQ0KPiBjaG9pY2UgdGVzdC4NCj4gDQo+IE9mIGNvdXJzZSB3aGF0 IGRvIEkga25vdz8gIEknbSBqdXN0IGEgY2F2ZSBtYW4gd2hvIHBhc3NlZCB0aGUgdGVzdHMhDQo+ IA0KPiAtLSANCj4gQmVuIEphY2tzb24NCj4gPGJlbkBiZW4uY29tPg0KPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmJl bi5jb20v Article: 215669 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:32:46 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <42e69efc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu wrote: >>Here is the transient state of the system an instant >>after the first internal reflection from point B arrives >>back at point A. >> >> 1st medium 2nd medium 3rd medium >> A B >> 1000mW-->--| | >> |-->--888.9mW-->--| >>111.1mW--<--| |-->--790.1mW >> |--<--98.76mW--<--| >>87.79mW--<--| | >> |-->--10.97mW > > > You are correct that in this system (1/4-wave matching layer), the > total reflectance goes to zero. > > However, your understanding of superposition is wrong. Powers obey the equation P1 + P2 + 2*(P1*P2)cos(theta) when the fields are superposed. 2*(P1*P2)cos(theta) is known as the "interference" term. That interference term automatically adjusts the power equation IN ORDER TO AVOID SUPERPOSITION OF POWERS. That's what I did. > You CANNOT superimpose POWERS, I would not even dream of superposing powers. Perhaps you don't understand the role of the interference term in the power equation which is to AVOID the superposition of powers. P1 + P2 would be superposing powers. I didn't do that. P1 + P2 + 2*sqrt(P1*P2)cos(theta) is NOT superposing powers. > or even talk about the "power" of various > reflections in the same media. You can only add the wave amplitudes > (electric fields). THEN you take the total amplitude and square that > to get the power. Eugene Hecht would be surprised to hear you say such since he talked about the powers (irradiance) of various reflections in the same media. I did not superpose powers. I used Hecht's equations for powers (irradiance). When E-field1 is superposed with E-field2, powers obey the equation: Ptotal = P1 + P2 + 2*sqrt(P1*P2)cos(theta) where (theta) is the angle between the E-fields, P1 is the power associated with E-field1, and P2 is the power associated with E-field2. Reference: _Optics_, by Hecht, equation 9.14 Since the above is a steady-state matched situation, the forward power in second medium involves total constructive interference: So Ptotal = P1 + P2 + 2*sqrt(P1*P2) where P1 = Pfor1*T and P2 = Pref2*R T is the Transmittance and R is the reflectance These are very similar to the S-parameter power equations. Reference "total constructive interference" in _Optics_, by Hecht equation 9.15. The only difference in irradiance and power is the unit-area which, for our example, is arbitrary. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215670 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:36:17 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Reg Edwards wrote: > Cec, I am not aware of what Jacques might have said about English cod > and chips. Everybody to his own tastes. Well Reg, Jacques said he couldn't believe that London got the olympic games contract because, compared to French food, English food is not even fit to eat, or something to that effect. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215671 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:04:05 -0700 Q2VjaWw6DQoNCk1vc3Qgam9raW5nIGFzaWRlLCB5b3Ugc2VlbiB1dWVuY29kZS91dWRlY29kZSBp biBoZWF2eSB1c2UgdXAgdW50aWwgMTk5NSB3aGVuIHRoZSBzdWRkZW4gZmxvb2Qgb2YgY2hlYXAg Y29tcHV0ZXJzIGJyb3VnaHQgYWxsIHRoZSAicmlmZi1yYWZmLWtub3ctaXQtYWxsLXJlZ3VsYXRv cnMiIGhlcmUsIHNpbmNlIHRoZW4gaXQgdGFwZXJlZCB1bnRpbCB5b3Ugb25seSBzZWUgaXQgaW4g dXNlIG9uICJiaW5hcnkgbW9zdGx5IiBjaGFucy4uLg0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiJDZWNpbCBNb29yZSIg PHc1ZHhwQGhvdG1haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6NDJlNjc2MDMkMV8yQHNw b29sOS13ZXN0LnN1cGVyZmVlZC5uZXQuLi4NCj4gSm9obiBTbWl0aCB3cm90ZToNCj4+IElmIHlv dSBuZWVkIGEgdHV0b3JpYWwgb24gaG93IHRvIHVzZSB1dWVuY29kZSwgSSBjYW4gZnVybmlzaCAN Cj4gPiB5b3Ugd2l0aCBvbmUtLQ0KPiANCj4gU29tZWhvdywgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGUgYXV0 aG9ycyBvZiB0aGUgdXNlbmV0IGd1aWRlbGluZXMNCj4gaGFkIGEgdXVlbmNvZGVkIGZpbGUgaW4g bWluZCB3aGVuIHRoZXkgc2FpZCAidGV4dCBvbmx5Ii4gOi0pDQo+IC0tIA0KPiA3MywgQ2VjaWwg IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucXNsLm5ldC93NWR4cA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IC0tLS09PSBQb3N0ZWQgdmlhIE5l d3NmZWVkcy5Db20gLSBVbmxpbWl0ZWQtVW5jZW5zb3JlZC1TZWN1cmUgVXNlbmV0IE5ld3M9PS0t LS0NCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzZmVlZHMuY29tIFRoZSAjMSBOZXdzZ3JvdXAgU2VydmljZSBp biB0aGUgV29ybGQhID4xMDAsMDAwIE5ld3Nncm91cHMNCj4gLS0tPSBFYXN0L1dlc3QtQ29hc3Qg U2VydmVyIEZhcm1zIC0gVG90YWwgUHJpdmFjeSB2aWEgRW5jcnlwdGlvbiA9LS0t Article: 215672 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:38:39 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <42e6a05c$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Richard Clark wrote: > tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu wrote: >>However, your understanding of superposition is wrong. You >>CANNOT superimpose POWERS, or even talk about the "power" of various >>reflections in the same media. You can only add the wave amplitudes >>(electric fields). THEN you take the total amplitude and square that >>to get the power. > > This is all taken care of in the equation for energy conservation that > I posted. Tor, by misunderstanding my posting, you have just fed the monster. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215673 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:41:00 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Transmission Line References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42e6a0e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Eric Delongchamp wrote: > I want to put up a 40m dipole antenna and my question is what a > transmission line to use, I have two defferent type of twin lead to > choose from, one is 75 ohm and a TV 300 ohm line. I'm using Yeasu 747 > GX and MFJ 949 E for equiment. Thanks Use the 300 ohm line and make it about 62 ft. long, i.e. 1/2WL. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215674 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Transmission Line Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> > I want to put up a 40m dipole antenna and my question is what a > transmission line to use, I have two defferent type of twin lead to > choose from, one is 75 ohm and a TV 300 ohm line. I'm using Yeasu 747 > GX and MFJ 949 E for equiment. Thanks > --------------------------------------------------------------- It depends on how you intend to use your antenna and how long will be the feedline to the shack. You will be concerned mainly with the inevitable loss in the line. I assume one of your equipments is a tuner. If you intend to use only the 40 meter band and the length of line is not very long then the best choice is the 75 ohm twin line. It makes a fairly good impedance match with both the antenna and the tuner/transmitter at that frequency. A choke balun can be fitted between the line and the tuner. But if your line is a long one, then the 300 ohm line will probably be better. It depends on how flimsy it is. Again use a choke balun and a tuner. If you intend to work on several bands then the 300 ohm line is a must. There will be fairly high standing waves on the line at whatever frequency you are on but losses may not be excessive due to the fairly high line impedance. With 300 ohms it could be higher. Ideally, for multiband working and a long line you should have a substantial 450 ohm ladderline or, best of all, a 600 ohm open wire line. But don't neglect the antenna. The best antenna is the highest possible. ---- Reg, G4FGQ Article: 215675 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:49:19 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e6a2dc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Smith wrote: > Most joking aside, you seen uuencode/uudecode in heavy use up > until 1995 when the sudden flood of cheap computers ... That "sudden flood of cheap computers" had WinZip available which transparently handles uuencode/uudecode. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215676 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:51:32 -0700 RGF2ZToNCg0KVGhlcmUgaXMgYSBiYWxhbmNlIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIHByYWN0aWNhbCBhbmQgdGhl IHRoZW9yeSB3aGljaCBtdXN0IGJlIHN0cnVjayB0byBnZXQgIm9uIHRoZSBhaXIiLCB5b3UgYXJl IGNvcnJlY3QuDQoNCkJ1dCBoYXZpbmcgYm90aCBhdmFpbGFibGUgaXMgYW4gYXNzZXQgcmF0aGVy IHRoYW4gYSBoaW5kcmFuY2UuDQoNClRoZXJlIGlzIHJvb20gZm9yIGJvdGggaGVyZSwgYW5kIEkg ZW5qb3kgdGhlIGd1eXMgc3BsaXR0aW5nIGhhaXJzLCB0aGVyZSBpcyByZWFsIGtub3dsZWRnZSBh bmQgd2lzZG9tIHRoZXJlLS1ldmVuIGlmIHdlIHRlYXNlICdlbSBhIGJpdC4NCjxhZ2dyYXZhdGlu Zy1ncmluPg0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiJEYXZlIiA8bm9vbmVAbm93aGVyZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1l c3NhZ2UgbmV3czpIWU9kblc2ZUg2ZlBBWHZmUlZuLWpRQGNyb2NrZXIuY29tLi4uDQo+IHVzZSB0 aGUgb25lIHRoYXQgcmVhY2hlcy4gIGRvbid0IHJlYWQgYW55IG1vcmUgcmVwbGllcywgZ28gZG8g dGhlIGpvYiwgcHV0IA0KPiB1cCB0aGUgYW50ZW5uYSBhbmQgZ2V0IG9uIHRoZSBhaXIuICBpZiB5 b3UgY29tZSBiYWNrIGhlcmUgYW5kIHJlYWQgYWxsIHRoZSANCj4gbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCB0aGlz IHF1ZXN0aW9uIHdpbGwgZ2VuZXJhdGUgeW91IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgZ2V0IG9uIHRoZSBhaXIhDQo+ IA0KPiAiRXJpYyBEZWxvbmdjaGFtcCIgPHJpY2RlbG9uQGN5YmVyYmVhY2gubmV0PiB3cm90ZSBp biBtZXNzYWdlIA0KPiBuZXdzOjdyM2RlMWRjbXEzaDMwY2RuODE0MDdoZTZncmNkMm9iNGpANGF4 LmNvbS4uLg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+IEhpICENCj4+DQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+IEkgd2FudCB0 byBwdXQgdXAgYSA0MG0gZGlwb2xlIGFudGVubmEgYW5kIG15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIHdoYXQgYQ0K Pj4gdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIGxpbmUgdG8gdXNlLCBJIGhhdmUgdHdvIGRlZmZlcmVudCB0eXBlIG9m IHR3aW4gbGVhZCB0bw0KPj4gY2hvb3NlIGZyb20sIG9uZSBpcyA3NSBvaG0gYW5kIGEgVFYgMzAw IG9obSBsaW5lLiBJJ20gdXNpbmcgWWVhc3UgNzQ3DQo+PiBHWCBhbmQgTUZKIDk0OSBFIGZvciBl cXVpbWVudC4gVGhhbmtzDQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+PiBFcmljIEQuIA0KPiANCj4= Article: 215677 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6a2dc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: <3wxFe.274$ls6.7855235@news.sisna.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:00:40 -0700 Q2VjaWw6DQoNCkkgYW0gYWZyYWlkIG15IGlnbm9yYW5jZSBvZiB3aW56aXAgcHJldmVudHMgbWUg ZnJvbSBldmVuIGEgeWVhIG9yIGEgbmVpZ2guLi4gIEkgaGF2ZSBhbHdheXMgdXNlZCB0aGUgY29t bWFuZGxpbmUgdmVyc2lvbnMuLi4gYnV0LCBmcm9tIG15IGNvbmZpZGVuY2UgaW4geW91ciBrbm93 bGVkZ2UtLUkgYW0gaW5jbGluZWQgdG8gYWNjZXB0IHRoYXQuLi4NCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiQ2VjaWwg TW9vcmUiIDx3NWR4cEBob3RtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjQyZTZhMmRj JDFfMUBzcG9vbDktd2VzdC5zdXBlcmZlZWQubmV0Li4uDQo+IEpvaG4gU21pdGggd3JvdGU6DQo+ PiBNb3N0IGpva2luZyBhc2lkZSwgeW91IHNlZW4gdXVlbmNvZGUvdXVkZWNvZGUgaW4gaGVhdnkg dXNlIHVwIA0KPj4gdW50aWwgMTk5NSB3aGVuIHRoZSBzdWRkZW4gZmxvb2Qgb2YgY2hlYXAgY29t cHV0ZXJzIC4uLg0KPiANCj4gVGhhdCAic3VkZGVuIGZsb29kIG9mIGNoZWFwIGNvbXB1dGVycyIg aGFkIFdpblppcCBhdmFpbGFibGUNCj4gd2hpY2ggdHJhbnNwYXJlbnRseSBoYW5kbGVzIHV1ZW5j b2RlL3V1ZGVjb2RlLg0KPiAtLSANCj4gNzMsIENlY2lsICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnFzbC5uZXQvdzVk eHANCj4gDQo+IC0tLS09PSBQb3N0ZWQgdmlhIE5ld3NmZWVkcy5Db20gLSBVbmxpbWl0ZWQtVW5j ZW5zb3JlZC1TZWN1cmUgVXNlbmV0IE5ld3M9PS0tLS0NCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzZmVlZHMu Y29tIFRoZSAjMSBOZXdzZ3JvdXAgU2VydmljZSBpbiB0aGUgV29ybGQhIDEyMCwwMDArIE5ld3Nn cm91cHMNCj4gLS0tLT0gRWFzdCBhbmQgV2VzdC1Db2FzdCBTZXJ2ZXIgRmFybXMgLSBUb3RhbCBQ cml2YWN5IHZpYSBFbmNyeXB0aW9uID0tLS0t Article: 215678 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:01:34 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <87sly1737a.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <6g7de1dhmud4qhj8ecf9g0edbcaf3qt1rn@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42e6a5bb$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Richard Clark wrote: > On 26 Jul 2005 14:54:49 -0500, tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu wrote: >>Not sure which indices you are now referring to: n_3=4.0 or 4.04? With >>4.0, there is zero reflected light. With 4.04 there is a small amount. > > It doesn't matter one iota. Of course it matters. The 1,2,4 combination meets the necessary and sufficient conditions for the elimination of reflections in medium 1 assuming a steady-state lossless system, i.e. perfectly matched. > The point of the matter is with such design characteristics fulfilled, > then each interface reflects/transmits in the same proportion. With > each reflecting/transmitting in the same proportion, the second > interface, by the actions of the first, must have less incident upon > it. That is simply not true, Richard. You obviously have not read my Melles-Griot web posting and/or simply don't understand it. The forward power in medium 2 is greater than the forward power in either medium 1 or medium 3. You keep making that same mistake over and over and over. Why don't you simply take time to understand the truth? > What is even more obvious is that following the second interface, you > have lost roughly 20% of that incident upon the first interface. But you have gained the energy involved in the wave cancellation in medium 1. The forward power in medium 2 is higher than it is in medium 1. You don't actually believe the BS by some gurus on this newsgroup that standing waves don't contain any energy, do you? > There is not enough energy at the second interface, reflected back, to > "Totally Cancel" the energy in the reflection of the first interface. > There can be no other outcome. Only in your mind, Richard, only in your mind. The outcome in reality is complete cancellation of the reflections in medium 1 assuming 1,2,4 indices of refraction. > That difference yields first interface reflection products that have: > 1200 TIMES MORE POWER THAN THE SUN! Somebody get the net! -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215679 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Reflections Date: 26 Jul 2005 15:57:28 -0500 Message-ID: <87d5p5cmkn.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <42e69efc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> >> A B >> 1000mW-->--| | >> |-->--888.9mW-->--| >>111.1mW--<--| |-->--790.1mW >> |--<--98.76mW--<--| >>87.79mW--<--| | >> |-->--10.97mW ^^^^^ >I would not even dream of superposing powers. Perhaps you >don't understand the role of the interference term in the Then don't draw diagrams like above labeled with powers of multiple reflections bouncing around in the same media :) >Eugene Hecht would be surprised to hear you say such since he >talked about the powers (irradiance) of various reflections in >the same media. Only when dealing with the interference of TWO waves. He works with electric field when discussing anti-reflection layers. See 9.7.1 I'm not saying the power equation you give is wrong, but it is correct for just two waves. With more than two waves, it obviously becomes more complicated Tor N4OGW Article: 215680 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: Trevor Day Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:09:47 GMT In message <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, Cecil Moore writes >Well Reg, Jacques said he couldn't believe that London got the >olympic games contract because, compared to French food, English >food is not even fit to eat, or something to that effect. I think you will find Cecil that Chirac's comments were made before the result was announced and probably did little to help his cause. Trev G3ZYY -- Trevor Day UKSMG #217 www.uksmg.org Article: 215681 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brian Reay" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: <3IxFe.4526$SO4.3205@newsfe4-win.ntli.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:13:35 GMT "Trevor Day" wrote in message news:frwsNJKxZq5CFw6o@secornwall.com... > In message <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, Cecil Moore > writes > >Well Reg, Jacques said he couldn't believe that London got the > >olympic games contract because, compared to French food, English > >food is not even fit to eat, or something to that effect. > > I think you will find Cecil that Chirac's comments were made before the > result was announced and probably did little to help his cause. > You are assuming the French actually wanted to host the games. I suspect they have spotted it wasn't going to make money and wanted out. I suspect our hosting the games is going to cost the UK big time. -- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 Article: 215682 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Reflections Date: 26 Jul 2005 16:03:24 -0500 Message-ID: <878xztcmar.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <42e6a05c$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> >Tor, by misunderstanding my posting, you have just fed the monster. :-) I see :O Well, I can't get everyone to understand basic physics. Tor N4OGW Article: 215683 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:20:36 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <42e69efc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Powers obey the equation P1 + P2 + 2*(P1*P2)cos(theta) I thought you said nature doesn't obey math models. :-) > P1 + P2 would be superposing powers. I didn't do that. > > P1 + P2 + 2*sqrt(P1*P2)cos(theta) is NOT superposing powers. You do understand that interference is the result of the superposition of waves traveling in the same direction, right? > Eugene Hecht would be surprised to hear you say such since he > talked about the powers (irradiance) of various reflections in > the same media. Again Cecil, you're really in no position to speak on his behalf. He might not think that highly of your doing so in fact. Perhaps you should obtain his permission first. > I did not superpose powers. I used Hecht's equations for powers > (irradiance). Actually, the fact that those equations appear in his book (as well as just about any other optics book) does not convey any rights of ownership or invention to the author. They were around a long time before Dr. Hecht. > The only difference in irradiance and power is > the unit-area which, for our example, is arbitrary. You should show him your equation with all the power terms (P1-P4) in it! You had some of the powers going one way, and the others going the other way. You needed them all to add up to some particular number, so you just added them. - or maybe subtracted some of them. I don't recall exactly. Article: 215684 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:30:59 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <42e69efc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <87d5p5cmkn.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <42e6ac9f$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu wrote: >W5DXP wrote: >>Eugene Hecht would be surprised to hear you say such since he >>talked about the powers (irradiance) of various reflections in >>the same media. > > Only when dealing with the interference of TWO waves. > He works with electric field when discussing anti-reflection > layers. See 9.7.1 > > I'm not saying the power equation you give is wrong, but it > is correct for just two waves. With more than two waves, it > obviously becomes more complicated medium 1 medium 2 medium 3 A B 1000mW-->--| | |-->--888.9mW-->--| 111.1mW--<--| |-->--790.1mW |--<--98.76mW--<--| 87.79mW--<--| | |-->--10.97mW I appologize if the diagram wasn't clear. It is extremely difficult to draw graphics in ASCII. But I only ever deal with TWO waves. Above in medium 1, the two waves are the 111.1 wave and the 87.79 wave. There are only TWO rearward-traveling waves there. Hecht's irradiance equation works for those TWO waves. The TWO waves in medium 2 are the 888.9 wave and the 10.97 wave. There are only TWO forward-traveling waves there. Hecht's irradiance equation works for those TWO waves. Since I am not trying to calculate the power in the standing waves, there are only ever TWO values of power to deal with. Sorry for the confusion. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215685 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Ken Bessler" Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:01:17 -0500 "Ken Bessler" wrote in message news:... > My current antenna is a modified Van Gordon "All Bander". > For reference, the stock antenna is 134' of 14g stranded > bare copper fed with 100' of 450 ohm ladder line. I cut off > half of the ladder line and replaced it with a 12 turn, 5-1/4" > rg58 coil. 20 feet of rg58 goes from the coil into the shack. > I then trimmed the antenna to 7.175 mhz. > > The antenna is a flat dipole up 20'. Seems to work OK but > I've got the itch to improve it. The feed point is 12" above > the peak of my roof. I was thinking about installing a 5' tripod > and 2 ten foot masts to elevate the antenna's feed point and > convert it into an inverted V. There will be no need to add to > the feedline. > Well, it's up guys! The apex is about 40' and the ends are 28'. Comparing it to my other antennas I'm seeing about a 1-1/2 to 2 S unit improvement on 40m and more on the higher bands. I did a SWR plot before and after changing it and here's the sticking point: Before, I had a 2:1 range from 6.900-7.280 and now I've got 7.000-7.300 but the minimum SWR went from 1.10:1 to 1.55:1. My Elecraft KAT2 autotuner handles that very easily but I'm wondering what would happen if I added 12 feet to my 50' of 450 ohm ladder line? Would the minimum SWR get better or just move? Or both? Does it really matter? (I don't think it matters based on what I've read here). Ken -- Just my 2¢... 73 es gd dx de Ken KGØWX Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #-1055 Proud builder & owner of Elecraft K2 #4913 Article: 215686 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:04:08 -0500 Message-ID: <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> I will post this at both the bottom and top, trying to please everybody at once. In the Great Scheme, is this subject really worth these multiple posts? Those who rage on about this subject consistently need to find something more useful to fill their time. Maybe volunteer work? "NunYa Bidness" wrote > How was it any easier to post that one line tripe at the top than > where it belongs? How easy, oh yeah... a couple of clicks. You are > one lazy bastard. I will post this at both the bottom and top, trying to please everybody at once. In the Great Scheme, is this subject really worth these multiple posts? Those who rage on about this subject consistently need to find something more useful to fill their time. Maybe volunteer work? Article: 215687 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:07:00 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122393511.012067.232890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <42e69efc$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e6b512$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Jim Kelley wrote: > You do understand that interference is the result of the superposition > of waves traveling in the same direction, right? Of course, there are two superposition terms in each direction represented by the two S-parameter equations. b1 = s11*a1 + s12*a2 toward the source b2 = s21*a1 + s22*a2 toward the load The two terms in the first equation interfere with each other toward the source. The two terms in the second equation interfere with each other toward the load. When b1=0, the system is matched, and total destructive interference exists toward the source. In that case, total constructive interference exists toward the load. > Actually, the fact that those equations appear in his book (as well as > just about any other optics book) does not convey any rights of > ownership or invention to the author. They were around a long time > before Dr. Hecht. Didn't mean to imply that he owns them. "Hecht's equations" simply means they appear in his book. They were around a long time before anyone on this newsgroup called them "gobblegook". The interference equations also appear in Chipman's 1968 "Transmission Lines". > You should show him your equation with all the power terms (P1-P4) in > it! You had some of the powers going one way, and the others going the > other way. Nope, you are confused. All powers are going the same direction for any individual equation in my article. Destructive interference energy in one direction equals constructive interference energy in the opposite direction. If you will wade through the transient buildup to steady-state of the recent examples, you won't be confused anymore by direction. During the transient buildup phase, when the first destructive interference occurs toward the source, an equal amount of constructive interference energy flows toward the load - same energy, just flowing in the opposite direction. If destructive interference energy in one direction equals P3+P4, constructive interference energy in the opposite direction equals P3+P4 to satisfy the conservation of energy principle. Perhaps you are remembering the equation (Pload = Pfor - Pref) where Pfor and Pref are flowing in different directions. But that equation doesn't appear in my article. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215688 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: <35zFe.292$kG1.12175514@news.sisna.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:48:29 -0700 UmljaGFyZCBGLjoNCg0KRG9uJ3QgY29tcGxhaW4gYWJvdXQgdGhhdCwgaG93IGFib3V0IHRoZSBj b250cm9sIGZyZWFrcyB3aGljaCBhcmUgYXJvdW5kIGFuZCBhYm91dCBhdHRlbXB0aW5nIHRvIGdl dCBldmVyeW9uZSBvcmdhbml6ZWQsIHN0b3BwZWQgYW5kIGRvaW5nIHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGUgY29u dHJvbCBmcmVhayB3YW50cy0tbm93IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBzb21lIHNpY2sgcHVwcGllcyEgIEdvIHRl bGwgdGhlbSB0byBnZXQgYSBsaWZlIGFuZCBxdWl0IGJhcmdpbmcgaW4gd2hlcmUgdGhleSBhcmUg bm90IHdhbnRlZC4uLg0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiJSaWNoYXJkIEZyeSIgPHJmcnlAYWRhbXMubmV0PiB3 cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6NDJlNmIzYjhfM0BuZXdzZmVlZC5zbHVycC5uZXQuLi4NCj5J IHdpbGwgcG9zdCB0aGlzIGF0IGJvdGggdGhlIGJvdHRvbSBhbmQgdG9wLCB0cnlpbmcgdG8gcGxl YXNlIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSBhdCANCj4gb25jZS4gIEluIHRoZSBHcmVhdCBTY2hlbWUsIGlzIHRoaXMg c3ViamVjdCByZWFsbHkgd29ydGggdGhlc2UgbXVsdGlwbGUgDQo+IHBvc3RzPyAgVGhvc2Ugd2hv IHJhZ2Ugb24gYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBzdWJqZWN0IGNvbnNpc3RlbnRseSBuZWVkIHRvIGZpbmQgDQo+ IHNvbWV0aGluZyBtb3JlIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBmaWxsIHRoZWlyIHRpbWUuICBNYXliZSB2b2x1bnRl ZXIgd29yaz8NCj4gDQo+ICJOdW5ZYSBCaWRuZXNzIiAgd3JvdGUNCj4+ICBIb3cgd2FzIGl0IGFu eSBlYXNpZXIgdG8gcG9zdCB0aGF0IG9uZSBsaW5lIHRyaXBlIGF0IHRoZSB0b3AgdGhhbg0KPj4g d2hlcmUgaXQgYmVsb25ncz8gIEhvdyBlYXN5LCBvaCB5ZWFoLi4uICBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBjbGlj a3MuICBZb3UgYXJlDQo+PiBvbmUgbGF6eSBiYXN0YXJkLg0KPiANCj4gSSB3aWxsIHBvc3QgdGhp cyBhdCBib3RoIHRoZSBib3R0b20gYW5kIHRvcCwgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHBsZWFzZSBldmVyeWJvZHkg YXQgDQo+IG9uY2UuICBJbiB0aGUgR3JlYXQgU2NoZW1lLCBpcyB0aGlzIHN1YmplY3QgcmVhbGx5 IHdvcnRoIHRoZXNlIG11bHRpcGxlIA0KPiBwb3N0cz8gIFRob3NlIHdobyByYWdlIG9uIGFib3V0 IHRoaXMgc3ViamVjdCBjb25zaXN0ZW50bHkgbmVlZCB0byBmaW5kIA0KPiBzb21ldGhpbmcgbW9y ZSB1c2VmdWwgdG8gZmlsbCB0aGVpciB0aW1lLiAgTWF5YmUgdm9sdW50ZWVyIHdvcms/IA0KPg== Article: 215689 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Steve Nosko" Subject: Re: APRS and voice - mobile configuration Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:02:35 -0500 Message-ID: References: <1122054980.698869.195170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Many do this and don't worry about it. I have not heard of anyone hurting a receiver. I would, however, keep the antennas as far apart as possible. One thing. The APRS transmitter should be kept as low as possible and still get the desired results. You can also sign up to the tapr list and query the Gurus. https://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo 73, Steve, K9DCI wrote in message news:1122054980.698869.195170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > There are times when Google search is great, and others where it fails > me. This is one of those situations. > > I'm trying to find out what people recommend for handling both APRS and > voice radios in the same vehicle. I want to have two separate rigs, > one dedicated to APRS, the other for normal voice comms. I'm concerned > about receiver overload and frying one of the rigs when the other is > transmitting at high power. > > The rigs are modern (Yeasu FT-2800 for APRS and Yeasu FT-8900 for > voice). Would the intermod rejection of these two rigs protect them? > I'd rather not set up a cavity or other expensive filters. > > How do others have this setup in place? > > 73, > patrick > Article: 215690 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:04:12 -0700 Q2VjaWw6DQoNCmFoaCwgYSBtYW4gd2hpY2gga25vd3MgZ29vZCBmb29kIQ0KDQpJJ3ZlIGdvdCBz b21lIGNoZWVzZSwgY3JhY2tlcnMgYW5kIGl0YWxpYW4gc2FsYW1pIGhlcmUsIHlvdSBzdGlsbCBn b3QgYSBib3R0bGUgb2YgdGhhdCB3aW5lIGxlZnQgKG5hcGEgdmFsbGV5LCBOT1QgZnJlbmNoLCBk b24ndCBicmluZyBhbnkgZnJ5J3MgZWl0aGVyISksIHdlIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSBsdW5jaCEgPGJ1cnAh Pg0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiJDZWNpbCBNb29yZSIgPHc1ZHhwQGhvdG1haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBt ZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6NDJlNjlmY2UkMV8xQHNwb29sOS13ZXN0LnN1cGVyZmVlZC5uZXQuLi4NCj4g UmVnIEVkd2FyZHMgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBDZWMsIEkgYW0gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIHdoYXQgSmFjcXVl cyBtaWdodCBoYXZlIHNhaWQgYWJvdXQgRW5nbGlzaCBjb2QNCj4+IGFuZCBjaGlwcy4gRXZlcnli b2R5IHRvIGhpcyBvd24gdGFzdGVzLg0KPiANCj4gV2VsbCBSZWcsIEphY3F1ZXMgc2FpZCBoZSBj b3VsZG4ndCBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgTG9uZG9uIGdvdCB0aGUNCj4gb2x5bXBpYyBnYW1lcyBjb250 cmFjdCBiZWNhdXNlLCBjb21wYXJlZCB0byBGcmVuY2ggZm9vZCwgRW5nbGlzaA0KPiBmb29kIGlz IG5vdCBldmVuIGZpdCB0byBlYXQsIG9yIHNvbWV0aGluZyB0byB0aGF0IGVmZmVjdC4NCj4gLS0g DQo+IDczLCBDZWNpbCAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5xc2wubmV0L3c1ZHhwDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tPT0gUG9z dGVkIHZpYSBOZXdzZmVlZHMuQ29tIC0gVW5saW1pdGVkLVVuY2Vuc29yZWQtU2VjdXJlIFVzZW5l dCBOZXdzPT0tLS0tDQo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubmV3c2ZlZWRzLmNvbSBUaGUgIzEgTmV3c2dyb3Vw IFNlcnZpY2UgaW4gdGhlIFdvcmxkISAxMjAsMDAwKyBOZXdzZ3JvdXBzDQo+IC0tLS09IEVhc3Qg YW5kIFdlc3QtQ29hc3QgU2VydmVyIEZhcm1zIC0gVG90YWwgUHJpdmFjeSB2aWEgRW5jcnlwdGlv biA9LS0tLQ== Article: 215691 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jock. Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:57:13 +0000 Message-ID: <2pfde1pgu5mv4jq1qcnk06tia700a5sil9@4ax.com> References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:26:11 -0500, Cecil Moore wrote: >Reg Edwards wrote: >> By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. I'm sure even you Reg can afford something a bit more up-market! >Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about >English food. What Chirac said about English food was spot on. (I'm glad he commented on ENGLISH food and made no comment on the cuisine of the other British nations!) 73 de Jock. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw Article: 215692 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jock. Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:59:20 +0000 Message-ID: <61gde1dbe7p3amvnafh9547t98bognceen@4ax.com> References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3IxFe.4526$SO4.3205@newsfe4-win.ntli.net> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:13:35 GMT, "Brian Reay" wrote: >"Trevor Day" wrote in message >news:frwsNJKxZq5CFw6o@secornwall.com... >> In message <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, Cecil Moore >> writes >> >Well Reg, Jacques said he couldn't believe that London got the >> >olympic games contract because, compared to French food, English >> >food is not even fit to eat, or something to that effect. >> >> I think you will find Cecil that Chirac's comments were made before the >> result was announced and probably did little to help his cause. >> > >You are assuming the French actually wanted to host the games. I suspect >they have spotted it wasn't going to make money and wanted out. > >I suspect our hosting the games is going to cost the UK big time. And how! It's also a long way to 2012. 73 de Jock. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw Article: 215693 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jock. Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:03:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6799b$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> On 26 Jul 2005 17:57:48 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: >In article <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, > Cecil Moore writes: >> Reg Edwards wrote: >>> By the way, I'm on "Vin de Table de France" this evening. >> >> Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about >> English food. > >Was that before or after an English resturant won both >the 2004 best resturant in Europe and best resturant in >the World titles? ;-) They were probably French or Italian restaurants. 73 de Jock. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw Article: 215694 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna References: From: andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: 26 Jul 2005 23:48:07 GMT Message-ID: <42e6cbb7$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> In article , Jock. writes: > On 26 Jul 2005 17:57:48 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: > >>In article <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, >> Cecil Moore writes: >>> Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about >>> English food. >> >>Was that before or after an English resturant won both >>the 2004 best resturant in Europe and best resturant in >>the World titles? ;-) > > They were probably French or Italian restaurants. No. There are some French and possibily other country's dishes on the menu, but it's most certainly not even the tinyest bit a French or Italian Resturant. http://www.fatduck.co.uk/ The tasting menu is unique to The Fat Duck/Heston Blumenthal AFAIK. -- Andrew Gabriel Article: 215695 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:49:48 -0500 Message-ID: <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Draw a Colpitts Oscillator Dave WD9BDZ John Smith wrote: > Ben: > > Give us a couple of examples of what you think are difficult, relevant and appropriate questions, let us see how difficult you think this "rocket science" is, exactly? > > Indeed, if there is something you are having a problem with, there are those here which can help you... > > John > > "Ben Jackson" wrote in message news:slrnded6j3.2vm5.ben@saturn.home.ben.com... > >>On 2005-07-25, jgboyles@aol.com wrote: >> >>>John, Why did you go to all that trouble? The test is so easy now a >>>"Cave Man" could pass them. >> >>Actually I think they were dumbed down so a cave man could GRADE them. >>That dictated multiple choice, and it's hard to make a tough multiple >>choice test. >> >>Of course what do I know? I'm just a cave man who passed the tests! >> >>-- >>Ben Jackson >> >>http://www.ben.com/ Article: 215696 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <2pfde1pgu5mv4jq1qcnk06tia700a5sil9@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:50:46 -0700 Sm9jazoNCg0KWW91IHJlbWluZCBtZSBvZiBhIGd1eSBJIGtuZXcgaW4gaGlnaCBzY2hvb2wgYW5k IHRob3VnaCBjb2xsZWdlLi4uDQoNCkpvaGNrIFN0cmFwcC4uLg0KDQpJIGd1ZXNzIHlvdSBhcmUg bm8gcmVsYXRpb24gdGhvdWdoLi4uDQoNCkpvaG4NCg0KIkpvY2suIiA8cmVhbF9jbGFzc19hMjAw M0B5YWhvby5mcj4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjJwZmRlMXBndTVtdjRqcTFxY25rMDZ0 aWE3MDBhNXNpbDlANGF4LmNvbS4uLg0KPiBPbiBUdWUsIDI2IEp1bCAyMDA1IDEyOjI2OjExIC0w NTAwLCBDZWNpbCBNb29yZSA8dzVkeHBAaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4+UmVnIEVk d2FyZHMgd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPj4+IEJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIEknbSBvbiAiVmluIGRlIFRhYmxlIGRl IEZyYW5jZSIgdGhpcyBldmVuaW5nLg0KPiANCj4gSSdtIHN1cmUgZXZlbiB5b3UgUmVnIGNhbiBh ZmZvcmQgc29tZXRoaW5nIGEgYml0IG1vcmUgdXAtbWFya2V0IQ0KPiANCj4+U2hhbWUgb24geW91 LCBSZWcsIGFmdGVyIHdoYXQgSmFjcXVlcyBDaGlyYWMgc2FpZCBhYm91dA0KPj5FbmdsaXNoIGZv b2QuDQo+IA0KPiBXaGF0IENoaXJhYyBzYWlkIGFib3V0IEVuZ2xpc2ggZm9vZCB3YXMgc3BvdCBv bi4NCj4gDQo+IChJJ20gZ2xhZCBoZSBjb21tZW50ZWQgb24gRU5HTElTSCBmb29kIGFuZCBtYWRl IG5vIGNvbW1lbnQgb24NCj4gdGhlIGN1aXNpbmUgb2YgdGhlIG90aGVyIEJyaXRpc2ggbmF0aW9u cyEpDQo+IA0KPiA3MyBkZSBKb2NrLg0KPiAtLSANCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBFbmdsaXNoIGFyZSBub3Qg dmVyeSBzcGlyaXR1YWwgcGVvcGxlLCBzbyB0aGV5DQo+IGludmVudGVkIGNyaWNrZXQgdG8gZ2l2 ZSB0aGVtIHNvbWUgaWRlYSBvZiBldGVybml0eS4gDQo+IC0gR2VvcmdlIEJlcm5hcmQgU2hhdw== Article: 215697 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Hal Rosser" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e6a0e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:51:36 -0400 but - what if the radio is more than 62 ft from the antenna? "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42e6a0e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > Eric Delongchamp wrote: > > I want to put up a 40m dipole antenna and my question is what a > > transmission line to use, I have two defferent type of twin lead to > > choose from, one is 75 ohm and a TV 300 ohm line. I'm using Yeasu 747 > > GX and MFJ 949 E for equiment. Thanks > > Use the 300 ohm line and make it about 62 ft. long, > i.e. 1/2WL. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215698 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:08:14 -0000 Message-ID: <11ednjuepoh2o18@corp.supernews.com> References: In article , Ham op wrote: >> I did a SWR plot before and after changing it and here's the >> sticking point: Before, I had a 2:1 range from 6.900-7.280 and >> now I've got 7.000-7.300 but the minimum SWR went from >> 1.10:1 to 1.55:1. My Elecraft KAT2 autotuner handles that very >> easily but I'm wondering what would happen if I added 12 feet >> to my 50' of 450 ohm ladder line? Would the minimum SWR >> get better or just move? Or both? Does it really matter? (I don't >> think it matters based on what I've read here). > >SWR has nothing to do with the length of line [assuming low loss line]. True in one respect, but not necessarily a complete answer in this case (I think). >SWR is determined solely by the antenna to transmission line impedance. >[e.g. an antenna input impedance of 70 ohms and a 50 ohm cable has a SWR >of 1.4:1 ALL the time]. True, but that's not the whole story here. If I understand the OP's setup properly, he's trimmed his antenna wire down to be a half-wave 40-meter dipole. He's then feeding it with a combination of ladder line, a coaxial balun, and coax to the shack. If that's a true picture of the situation, then I would expect the SWR at the shack end of the coax to vary quite a lot as the length of the ladder line is changed. Reasoning: the antenna's feedpoint impedance wouldn't be too far from the 50-to-70 ohm range, give its resonant length and its height above ground. This impedance will be transformed by the 450-ohm ladder line, and the impedance at the ladder-line/coax joining point will depend on the degree of transformation. If the ladder line is cut to be an integral number of electrical half-wavelengths, it would mirror the antenna feedpoint impedance to the coax. There's be a good match, the SWR on the coax would be somewhere between 1:1 and 1.5:1, and the rig would quite possibly be happy without even needing its internal ATU. This is Good. On the other hand, if the ladder line is an odd number of quarter-wavelengths, it would transform the antenna's feedpoint impedance up to a much higher value (in excess of 1000 ohms). This would result in a severe mismatch at the ladder-line/coax joining point, and a high SWR on the coax. I'd expect both high losses, and a significant amount of RF appearing on the coax braid (the coiled-coax choke balun wouldn't have enough choking reactance). The rig's ATU might not be able to match this load at all. This would be Bad. In these two extreme cases, the SWR on the ladder line would be high, and wouldn't change appreciably as the ladder-line length was changed. Losses in the ladder line should be minimal. The SWR on the coax section, and the impedance presented to the rig, would vary anywhere from "utterly benign" to "nasty and unacceptable" depending on the length of the ladder line. The same basic reasoning would seem to apply, I think, for any antenna feedpoint impedance other than one which matches that of the ladder line. Although changing the ladder-line length won't affect the SWR on the ladder line, it can affect the SWR on the coax section (possibly by a lot!) due to the varying transformation of the antenna's feedpoint impedance. This is, in a way, the converse of Cecil's "no tuner" matching arrangment, which uses a tuned ladder-line feeder to transform a dipole's feedpoint impedance down to 50 ohms on multiple bands by adjusting the feeder length. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 215699 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:11:37 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Transmission Line References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e6a0e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e6e058$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Hal Rosser wrote: > but - what if the radio is more than 62 ft from the antenna? Then naturally you use 124 ft. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215700 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:14:08 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Ham op wrote: > What is the purpose of a 'swinging choke'? To get it closer to the antenna feedpoint? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215701 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:20:01 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e6e24d$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Smith wrote: > ... you still got a bottle of that wine left (napa valley, NOT french, ... Franzia Merlot from Ripon, CA. Where is Ripon? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215702 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:16:29 -0700 RGF2aWQ6DQoNCkV2ZW4gbm93LCBJIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgdG8gbG9vayBhdCBhIGRpYWdyYW0uLi4g aG93ZXZlciwgb25jZSByZXZpZXdlZCBJIGNvdWxkIGRyYXcgeW91IG9uZSBmb3IgYSBtb250aCBv ciBzbywgYmVmb3JlIGFnYWluIEkgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBsb29rLi4uDQoNClRoYXQgaXMgZGlm ZmljdWx0PyAgWW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBhcyBlYXN5IGFzIGFueSBvbiB0aGF0IHRlc3QhDQoN Ck5vdyBpZiB5b3UgYXNrZWQgbWUgdG8gZHJhdyB5b3UgYSBwaWN0dXJlIG9mIEdlb3JnZSBCdXNo IGFuZCBtYWtlIGl0IHJlYWxpc3RpYy0tSSB3b3VsZCBmYWlsIGZvcmV2ZXItLWdhd2QsIGdldCBh IGNsdWUgbWFuIGlmIGFsbCB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBkbyBpcyBtYWtlIHRoZSB0ZXN0IGRpZmZpY3Vs dCBhbmQgYWxsb3cgYXJ0aXN0cyBsaWNlbnNlcyENCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiRGF2aWQgRy4gTmFnZWwi IDxuYWdlbEBjb3JlLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjExZWRqMHQxb3I4anE1YUBj b3JwLnN1cGVybmV3cy5jb20uLi4NCj4gRHJhdyBhIENvbHBpdHRzIE9zY2lsbGF0b3INCj4gDQo+ IERhdmUgV0Q5QkRaDQo+IA0KPiBKb2huIFNtaXRoIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gQmVuOg0KPj4gDQo+PiBH aXZlIHVzIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGV4YW1wbGVzIG9mIHdoYXQgeW91IHRoaW5rIGFyZSBkaWZmaWN1 bHQsIHJlbGV2YW50IGFuZCBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMsIGxldCB1cyBzZWUgaG93IGRp ZmZpY3VsdCB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyAicm9ja2V0IHNjaWVuY2UiIGlzLCBleGFjdGx5Pw0KPj4g DQo+PiBJbmRlZWQsIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB5b3UgYXJlIGhhdmluZyBhIHByb2Js ZW0gd2l0aCwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHRob3NlIGhlcmUgd2hpY2ggY2FuIGhlbHAgeW91Li4uDQo+PiAN Cj4+IEpvaG4NCj4+IA0KPj4gIkJlbiBKYWNrc29uIiA8YmVuQGJlbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1l c3NhZ2UgbmV3czpzbHJuZGVkNmozLjJ2bTUuYmVuQHNhdHVybi5ob21lLmJlbi5jb20uLi4NCj4+ IA0KPj4+T24gMjAwNS0wNy0yNSwgamdib3lsZXNAYW9sLmNvbSA8amdib3lsZXNAYW9sLmNvbT4g d3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4NCj4+Pj5Kb2huLCBXaHkgZGlkIHlvdSBnbyB0byBhbGwgdGhhdCB0cm91Ymxl PyAgVGhlIHRlc3QgaXMgc28gZWFzeSBub3cgYQ0KPj4+PiJDYXZlIE1hbiIgY291bGQgcGFzcyB0 aGVtLg0KPj4+DQo+Pj5BY3R1YWxseSBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBkdW1iZWQgZG93biBzbyBh IGNhdmUgbWFuIGNvdWxkIEdSQURFIHRoZW0uDQo+Pj5UaGF0IGRpY3RhdGVkIG11bHRpcGxlIGNo b2ljZSwgYW5kIGl0J3MgaGFyZCB0byBtYWtlIGEgdG91Z2ggbXVsdGlwbGUNCj4+PmNob2ljZSB0 ZXN0Lg0KPj4+DQo+Pj5PZiBjb3Vyc2Ugd2hhdCBkbyBJIGtub3c/ICBJJ20ganVzdCBhIGNhdmUg bWFuIHdobyBwYXNzZWQgdGhlIHRlc3RzIQ0KPj4+DQo+Pj4tLSANCj4+PkJlbiBKYWNrc29uDQo+ Pj48YmVuQGJlbi5jb20+DQo+Pj5odHRwOi8vd3d3LmJlbi5jb20v Article: 215703 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:19:45 -0700 Li4uIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgY29udHJvbCBmcmVha3MgbGl2ZSwgdGhpcyBzdWJqZWN0IHNoYWxsIGxp dmUgb24sIGl0IHdhcyBiZWZvcmUgbWUsIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgaGVyZSBsb25nIGFmdGVyIG1lLi4u DQoNCkpvaG4NCg0KIkRhdmlkLlNocmFkZXIiIDxXMU1DRUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldD4gd3JvdGUgaW4g bWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOlpvU2RuU0s0bV9XaFRYdmZSVm4tc0FAY29tY2FzdC5jb20uLi4NCj4gSW4g dGhlIHdvcmRzIG9mIHRoYXQgZ3JlYXRlc3QgYW1lcmljYW4gcGhpbG9zb3BoZXI6ICJEZSBKYSBW b3VzLCBhbGwgDQo+IG92ZXIgYWdhaW4iICAtLS0gWS4gQmVycmENCj4gDQo+IEl0J3MgdGltZSB0 byBsZXQgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSBkaWUuDQo+IA0KPiBSaWNoYXJkIEZyeSB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+PiBJ IHdpbGwgcG9zdCB0aGlzIGF0IGJvdGggdGhlIGJvdHRvbSBhbmQgdG9wLCB0cnlpbmcgdG8gcGxl YXNlIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSANCj4+IGF0IG9uY2UuICBJbiB0aGUgR3JlYXQgU2NoZW1lLCBpcyB0aGlz IHN1YmplY3QgcmVhbGx5IHdvcnRoIHRoZXNlIA0KPj4gbXVsdGlwbGUgcG9zdHM/ICBUaG9zZSB3 aG8gcmFnZSBvbiBhYm91dCB0aGlzIHN1YmplY3QgY29uc2lzdGVudGx5IG5lZWQgDQo+PiB0byBm aW5kIHNvbWV0aGluZyBtb3JlIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBmaWxsIHRoZWlyIHRpbWUuICBNYXliZSB2b2x1 bnRlZXIgd29yaz8NCj4+IA0KPj4gIk51bllhIEJpZG5lc3MiICB3cm90ZQ0KPj4gDQo+Pj4gIEhv dyB3YXMgaXQgYW55IGVhc2llciB0byBwb3N0IHRoYXQgb25lIGxpbmUgdHJpcGUgYXQgdGhlIHRv cCB0aGFuDQo+Pj4gd2hlcmUgaXQgYmVsb25ncz8gIEhvdyBlYXN5LCBvaCB5ZWFoLi4uICBhIGNv dXBsZSBvZiBjbGlja3MuICBZb3UgYXJlDQo+Pj4gb25lIGxhenkgYmFzdGFyZC4NCj4+IA0KPj4g DQo+PiBJIHdpbGwgcG9zdCB0aGlzIGF0IGJvdGggdGhlIGJvdHRvbSBhbmQgdG9wLCB0cnlpbmcg dG8gcGxlYXNlIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSANCj4+IGF0IG9uY2UuICBJbiB0aGUgR3JlYXQgU2NoZW1lLCBp cyB0aGlzIHN1YmplY3QgcmVhbGx5IHdvcnRoIHRoZXNlIA0KPj4gbXVsdGlwbGUgcG9zdHM/ICBU aG9zZSB3aG8gcmFnZSBvbiBhYm91dCB0aGlzIHN1YmplY3QgY29uc2lzdGVudGx5IG5lZWQgDQo+ PiB0byBmaW5kIHNvbWV0aGluZyBtb3JlIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBmaWxsIHRoZWlyIHRpbWUuICBNYXli ZSB2b2x1bnRlZXIgd29yaz8NCj4= Article: 215704 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:55:23 -0700 T2hoaCwgYXNrIGhpc3RvcmljYWwgcXVlc3Rpb25zLi4uDQoNCldlbGwsIHRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIGRp Z2l0YWwgYWdlLCBmYXQgY2hhbmNlIG9mIHRob3NlIHF1ZXN0aW9ucyBldmVyIGdldHRpbmcgdGhl cmUgYWdhaW4uLi4NCg0KSG93ZXZlciwgd2hlbiB0aGUgRE1WIHN0YXJ0cyBhc2tpbmcgcXVlc3Rp b25zIG9uIGhvdyB0byBwcm9wZXJseSBncm9vbSBhIGhvcnNlLS1hbmQgd2hhdCB0byBkbyBpZiB0 aGUgaG9yc2UgZXZlciBmYXJ0cyBpbiBwdWJsaWMtLXlvdSB3aWxsIGtub3cgdGhhdCB3b3JsZCBp cyByaXBlIGZvciBzdWNoLi4uDQoNCkpvaG4NCg0KIkhhbSBvcCIgPGhhbW9wQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 PiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6aElTZG5XZnRydWR0VG52ZlJWbi1yQUBjb21jYXN0LmNv bS4uLg0KPiBDb3B5IDYwIHNlY29uZHMgb2YgTW9yc2UgQ29kZSBieSBoYW5kIHdpdGggbm8gZXJy b3JzLCBjb3JyZWN0aW9ucyBvciANCj4gb21pc3Npb25zLg0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCdzIHRoZSBkaWZm ZXJlbmNlIGJldHdlZW4gYSBDb2xwaXR0cyBvc2NpbGxhdG9yIGFuZCBhIEhhcnRsZXkgDQo+IE9z Y2lsbGF0b3I/IERyYXcgc2NoZW1hdGljcyBvZiBib3RoIHNob3dpbmcgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2Vz Lg0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiBhICdzd2luZ2luZyBjaG9rZSc/DQo+IA0K PiBBaCEhICBUaG9zZSB3ZXJlIHRoZSBkYXlzIC4uLi5uICA6LSkNCj4gDQo+IERhdmlkIEcuIE5h Z2VsIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4+IERyYXcgYSBDb2xwaXR0cyBPc2NpbGxhdG9yDQo+PiANCj4+IERh dmUgV0Q5QkRaDQo+PiANCj4+IEpvaG4gU21pdGggd3JvdGU6DQo+PiANCj4+PiBCZW46DQo+Pj4N Cj4+PiBHaXZlIHVzIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGV4YW1wbGVzIG9mIHdoYXQgeW91IHRoaW5rIGFyZSBk aWZmaWN1bHQsIHJlbGV2YW50IA0KPj4+IGFuZCBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMsIGxldCB1 cyBzZWUgaG93IGRpZmZpY3VsdCB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyANCj4+PiAicm9ja2V0IHNjaWVuY2Ui IGlzLCBleGFjdGx5Pw0KPj4+DQo+Pj4gSW5kZWVkLCBpZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgeW91 IGFyZSBoYXZpbmcgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGgsIHRoZXJlIGFyZSANCj4+PiB0aG9zZSBoZXJlIHdo aWNoIGNhbiBoZWxwIHlvdS4uLg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4gSm9obg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4gIkJlbiBKYWNrc29u IiA8YmVuQGJlbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgDQo+Pj4gbmV3czpzbHJuZGVkNmozLjJ2 bTUuYmVuQHNhdHVybi5ob21lLmJlbi5jb20uLi4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+PiBPbiAyMDA1LTA3LTI1LCBq Z2JveWxlc0Bhb2wuY29tIDxqZ2JveWxlc0Bhb2wuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4+IEpv aG4sIFdoeSBkaWQgeW91IGdvIHRvIGFsbCB0aGF0IHRyb3VibGU/ICBUaGUgdGVzdCBpcyBzbyBl YXN5IG5vdyBhDQo+Pj4+PiAiQ2F2ZSBNYW4iIGNvdWxkIHBhc3MgdGhlbS4NCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4N Cj4+Pj4gQWN0dWFsbHkgSSB0aGluayB0aGV5IHdlcmUgZHVtYmVkIGRvd24gc28gYSBjYXZlIG1h biBjb3VsZCBHUkFERSB0aGVtLg0KPj4+PiBUaGF0IGRpY3RhdGVkIG11bHRpcGxlIGNob2ljZSwg YW5kIGl0J3MgaGFyZCB0byBtYWtlIGEgdG91Z2ggbXVsdGlwbGUNCj4+Pj4gY2hvaWNlIHRlc3Qu DQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IE9mIGNvdXJzZSB3aGF0IGRvIEkga25vdz8gIEknbSBqdXN0IGEgY2F2ZSBt YW4gd2hvIHBhc3NlZCB0aGUgdGVzdHMhDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IC0tIA0KPj4+PiBCZW4gSmFja3Nv bg0KPj4+PiA8YmVuQGJlbi5jb20+DQo+Pj4+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmVuLmNvbS8NCj4= Article: 215705 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e6a0e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:13:15 -0700 SGFsOg0KDQpHbyB0byBhIGxvd2VyIG9wZXJhdGluZyBmcmVxdWVuY3ksIHNpbGx5IQ0KDQpKb2hu DQoNCiJIYWwgUm9zc2VyIiA8aG1yb3NzZXJAYmVsbHNvdXRoLm5ldD4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2Fn ZSBuZXdzOlZfekZlLjIyNzckRzcxLjcxM0BiaWduZXdzMy5iZWxsc291dGgubmV0Li4uDQo+IGJ1 dCAtIHdoYXQgaWYgdGhlIHJhZGlvIGlzIG1vcmUgdGhhbiA2MiBmdCBmcm9tIHRoZSBhbnRlbm5h Pw0KPiANCj4gIkNlY2lsIE1vb3JlIiA8dzVkeHBAaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3Nh Z2UNCj4gbmV3czo0MmU2YTBlOCQxXzFAc3Bvb2w5LXdlc3Quc3VwZXJmZWVkLm5ldC4uLg0KPj4g RXJpYyBEZWxvbmdjaGFtcCB3cm90ZToNCj4+ID4gSSB3YW50IHRvIHB1dCB1cCBhIDQwbSBkaXBv bGUgYW50ZW5uYSBhbmQgbXkgcXVlc3Rpb24gaXMgd2hhdCBhDQo+PiA+IHRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBs aW5lIHRvIHVzZSwgSSBoYXZlIHR3byBkZWZmZXJlbnQgdHlwZSBvZiB0d2luIGxlYWQgdG8NCj4+ ID4gY2hvb3NlIGZyb20sIG9uZSBpcyA3NSBvaG0gYW5kIGEgVFYgMzAwIG9obSBsaW5lLiBJJ20g dXNpbmcgWWVhc3UgNzQ3DQo+PiA+ICBHWCBhbmQgTUZKIDk0OSBFIGZvciBlcXVpbWVudC4gVGhh bmtzDQo+Pg0KPj4gVXNlIHRoZSAzMDAgb2htIGxpbmUgYW5kIG1ha2UgaXQgYWJvdXQgNjIgZnQu IGxvbmcsDQo+PiBpLmUuIDEvMldMLg0KPj4gLS0gDQo+PiA3MywgQ2VjaWwgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu cXNsLm5ldC93NWR4cA0KPj4NCj4+IC0tLS09PSBQb3N0ZWQgdmlhIE5ld3NmZWVkcy5Db20gLSBV bmxpbWl0ZWQtVW5jZW5zb3JlZC1TZWN1cmUgVXNlbmV0DQo+IE5ld3M9PS0tLS0NCj4+IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubmV3c2ZlZWRzLmNvbSBUaGUgIzEgTmV3c2dyb3VwIFNlcnZpY2UgaW4gdGhlIFdvcmxk ISAxMjAsMDAwKw0KPiBOZXdzZ3JvdXBzDQo+PiAtLS0tPSBFYXN0IGFuZCBXZXN0LUNvYXN0IFNl cnZlciBGYXJtcyAtIFRvdGFsIFByaXZhY3kgdmlhIEVuY3J5cHRpb24NCj4gPS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+ Article: 215706 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:37:40 -0700 Q2VjaWw6DQoNCjxzdG9vcGlkLXB1enpsZWQtbG9vay1vbi1mYWNlPg0KDQpTb21lIGZvb2xzIHRy eSB0byB1c2UgdGhlIGRhbW4gdGhpbmdzIGluIHBvd2VyIHN1cHBsaWVzISAgDQoNCk1hY2hvIG1l biB3aGljaCB3YW50IGEgcmVhbCAidGFyemFuIiAodGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHN3aW5nZXIpIGluIHRo ZWlyIHJhZGlvISAoYXJub2xkIHByb2JhYmx5IGhhcyBvbmUgaW4gaGlzIGNvcmRsZXNzIHBob25l cyBwb3dlciBzdXBwbHkpDQoNCkpvaG4NCg0KIkNlY2lsIE1vb3JlIiA8dzVkeHBAaG90bWFpbC5j b20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3czo0MmU2ZTBlYyQxXzFAc3Bvb2w5LXdlc3Quc3VwZXJm ZWVkLm5ldC4uLg0KPiBIYW0gb3Agd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBwdXJwb3NlIG9mIGEg J3N3aW5naW5nIGNob2tlJz8NCj4gDQo+IFRvIGdldCBpdCBjbG9zZXIgdG8gdGhlIGFudGVubmEg ZmVlZHBvaW50Pw0KPiAtLSANCj4gNzMsIENlY2lsICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnFzbC5uZXQvdzVkeHAN Cj4gDQo+IC0tLS09PSBQb3N0ZWQgdmlhIE5ld3NmZWVkcy5Db20gLSBVbmxpbWl0ZWQtVW5jZW5z b3JlZC1TZWN1cmUgVXNlbmV0IE5ld3M9PS0tLS0NCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzZmVlZHMuY29t IFRoZSAjMSBOZXdzZ3JvdXAgU2VydmljZSBpbiB0aGUgV29ybGQhIDEyMCwwMDArIE5ld3Nncm91 cHMNCj4gLS0tLT0gRWFzdCBhbmQgV2VzdC1Db2FzdCBTZXJ2ZXIgRmFybXMgLSBUb3RhbCBQcml2 YWN5IHZpYSBFbmNyeXB0aW9uID0tLS0t Article: 215707 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6e24d$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:40:35 -0700 SSBoYXZlIGRyaXZlbiB0aHJvdWdoIFJpcG9uLCBidXQgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBkcmFnIG91dCBh IG1hcC4uLg0KDQpCZXN0IGNhbGlmIHdpbmVzIGFyZSBmcm9tIG5hcGEgdmFsbGV5IGhlcmUsIG9y LCB0aGF0IGlzIHdoYXQgdGhlIHdpbmUgZHJpbmtlcnMgdGVsbCBtZS0tcmVhbGx5IGNhbid0IHN0 YW5kIHRoZSBzdHVmZiBteXNlbGYgOigNCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiQ2VjaWwgTW9vcmUiIDx3NWR4cEBo b3RtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjQyZTZlMjRkJDFfMkBzcG9vbDktd2Vz dC5zdXBlcmZlZWQubmV0Li4uDQo+IEpvaG4gU21pdGggd3JvdGU6DQo+PiAuLi4geW91IHN0aWxs IGdvdCBhIGJvdHRsZSBvZiB0aGF0IHdpbmUgbGVmdCAobmFwYSB2YWxsZXksIE5PVCBmcmVuY2gs IC4uLg0KPiANCj4gRnJhbnppYSBNZXJsb3QgZnJvbSBSaXBvbiwgQ0EuIFdoZXJlIGlzIFJpcG9u Pw0KPiAtLSANCj4gNzMsIENlY2lsICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnFzbC5uZXQvdzVkeHANCj4gDQo+IC0t LS09PSBQb3N0ZWQgdmlhIE5ld3NmZWVkcy5Db20gLSBVbmxpbWl0ZWQtVW5jZW5zb3JlZC1TZWN1 cmUgVXNlbmV0IE5ld3M9PS0tLS0NCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzZmVlZHMuY29tIFRoZSAjMSBO ZXdzZ3JvdXAgU2VydmljZSBpbiB0aGUgV29ybGQhIDEyMCwwMDArIE5ld3Nncm91cHMNCj4gLS0t LT0gRWFzdCBhbmQgV2VzdC1Db2FzdCBTZXJ2ZXIgRmFybXMgLSBUb3RhbCBQcml2YWN5IHZpYSBF bmNyeXB0aW9uID0tLS0t Article: 215708 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:43:58 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: The Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Glare Reduction References: <42e215da_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <16854-42E26712-564@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <42e6e6df$0$22206$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Richard Harrison wrote: > Richard Fry wrote: > "Richard Clark might have allowed for systems operating above 30 MHz., > which include several ham bands, I believe." > > I believe so too. > > From page 810 of Terman`s 1955 edition: > "Space-wave Propagation. At frequencies above about 30 MHz, the > ionosphere is not able to refract energy to earth, It is comforting to note that the ancient ones were wrong about some things. It may not happen daily, but it happens a lot at 6 meters, often at 2 meters, and sometimes even higher. tom K0TAR Article: 215709 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:25:15 -0400 Message-ID: and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I remember it... "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... > Draw a Colpitts Oscillator > > Dave WD9BDZ Article: 215710 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:53:29 -0700 bGFiZWwgdGhlIGZyZXF1ZW5jeSBkZXRlcm1pbmluZyBlbGVtZW50cz8NCg0KV2h5IHRoZSB4dGFs IGFuZCBhbnkgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCBjb2lsIG9yIGNhcCB1c2VkIHRvICJwdWxsIiB0aGUgZnJlcSBp biB0aGUgY21vcyBvc2NpbGxhdG9yLi4uIG9yIHRoZSBwaW4geW91IHRha2UgdGhlIHNpZ25hbCBv dXQgb2Ygb24gb2YgdGhlIGRlY2FkZS9oZXgvb2N0YWwgZnJlcSBkaXZpZGVyLi4uDQoNCmVycnIs IG9oIHdhaXQsIHlvdSBhcmUgc3BlYWtpbmcgb2YgdGhlIGFuY2llbnQgc3R1ZmYgZnJvbSBtdXNl dW1zIQ0KVGhhdCBpcyBzaW1wbGUsIHRoZSBjcnlzdGFsIChpZiBwcmVzZW50KSBhbmQvb3IgY29p bCBhbmQgY2FwLi4uDQoNCmhleSwgeW91IGRpZG4ndCBzbmVhayBhIGZyZXEgZG91YmxlciBpbiBi ZWhpbmQgdGhhdCBvc2MsIGRpZCB5YT8NCg0KZ2Vlc2guLi4gYW55IGNiZXIgd291bGQga25vdyB0 aGF0LCB3ZWxsLCBhZnRlciBoZSByZWFkIGl0Li4uDQoNCmFuZCB5b3UgYWluJ3Qgc25lYWt5IGFu ZCB0cnlpbicgdG8gcnVuIG9mZiBhIGhhcm1vbmljIG9mIHRoYXQgb3NjLCBhcmUgeWE/DQoNClJP RkxPTCEhISENCg0KSm9obg0KDQoNCg0KIkZyZWQgVzRKTEUiIDx3NGpsZUB3NGpsZS5jb20+IHdy b3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3czpiOWU5YyQ0MmU2ZTI3ZiQ0NzFjNjM2YSQxMzgzNkBBTExURUwu TkVULi4uDQo+IGFuZCBsYWJlbCB0aGUgZnJlcXVlbmN5IGRldGVybWluaW5nIGVsZW1lbnRzLiBB dCBsZWFzdCB0aGF0IGlzIGhvdyBJDQo+IHJlbWVtYmVyIGl0Li4uDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gIkRhdmlk IEcuIE5hZ2VsIiA8bmFnZWxAY29yZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UNCj4gbmV3czoxMWVk ajB0MW9yOGpxNWFAY29ycC5zdXBlcm5ld3MuY29tLi4uDQo+PiBEcmF3IGEgQ29scGl0dHMgT3Nj aWxsYXRvcg0KPj4NCj4+IERhdmUgV0Q5QkRaDQo+IA0KPg== Article: 215711 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:09:20 -0500 Message-ID: <11edun23e7qg087@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> John; Just what in the hell does your asinine comment on the President of the United States have to do with questions on an Amateur Radio Test? For what it's worth I would make the above statement if you were to reference Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter. Dave Nagel WD9BD John Smith wrote: > David: > > Even now, I would have to look at a diagram... however, once reviewed I could draw you one for a month or so, before again I would have to look... > > That is difficult? Your question is as easy as any on that test! > > Now if you asked me to draw you a picture of George Bush and make it realistic--I would fail forever--gawd, get a clue man if all you want to do is make the test difficult and allow artists licenses! > > John > > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... > >>Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >> >>Dave WD9BDZ >> >>John Smith wrote: >> >>>Ben: >>> >>>Give us a couple of examples of what you think are difficult, relevant and appropriate questions, let us see how difficult you think this "rocket science" is, exactly? >>> >>>Indeed, if there is something you are having a problem with, there are those here which can help you... >>> >>>John >>> >>>"Ben Jackson" wrote in message news:slrnded6j3.2vm5.ben@saturn.home.ben.com... >>> >>> >>>>On 2005-07-25, jgboyles@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>John, Why did you go to all that trouble? The test is so easy now a >>>>>"Cave Man" could pass them. >>>> >>>>Actually I think they were dumbed down so a cave man could GRADE them. >>>>That dictated multiple choice, and it's hard to make a tough multiple >>>>choice test. >>>> >>>>Of course what do I know? I'm just a cave man who passed the tests! >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Ben Jackson >>>> >>>>http://www.ben.com/ Article: 215712 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:11:04 -0500 Message-ID: <11eduq9mig8cr02@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> John; The Colpitts and Hartley Oscillators are still current technology. Dave WD9BDZ John Smith wrote: > Ohhh, ask historical questions... > > Well, this is the digital age, fat chance of those questions ever getting there again... > > However, when the DMV starts asking questions on how to properly groom a horse--and what to do if the horse ever farts in public--you will know that world is ripe for such... > > John > > "Ham op" wrote in message news:hISdnWftrudtTnvfRVn-rA@comcast.com... > >>Copy 60 seconds of Morse Code by hand with no errors, corrections or >>omissions. >> >>What's the difference between a Colpitts oscillator and a Hartley >>Oscillator? Draw schematics of both showing the differences. >> >>What is the purpose of a 'swinging choke'? >> >>Ah!! Those were the days ....n :-) >> >>David G. Nagel wrote: >> >> >>>Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >>> >>>Dave WD9BDZ >>> >>>John Smith wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Ben: >>>> >>>>Give us a couple of examples of what you think are difficult, relevant >>>>and appropriate questions, let us see how difficult you think this >>>>"rocket science" is, exactly? >>>> >>>>Indeed, if there is something you are having a problem with, there are >>>>those here which can help you... >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>>"Ben Jackson" wrote in message >>>>news:slrnded6j3.2vm5.ben@saturn.home.ben.com... >>>> >>>> >>>>>On 2005-07-25, jgboyles@aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>John, Why did you go to all that trouble? The test is so easy now a >>>>>>"Cave Man" could pass them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Actually I think they were dumbed down so a cave man could GRADE them. >>>>>That dictated multiple choice, and it's hard to make a tough multiple >>>>>choice test. >>>>> >>>>>Of course what do I know? I'm just a cave man who passed the tests! >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Ben Jackson >>>>> >>>>>http://www.ben.com/ > >> Article: 215713 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:12:04 -0500 Message-ID: <11edus4st4lgq4c@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John; I'm starting to see a trend in your replies. Dave WD9BDZ John Smith wrote: > Cecil: > > > > Some fools try to use the damn things in power supplies! > > Macho men which want a real "tarzan" (the original swinger) in their radio! (arnold probably has one in his cordless phones power supply) > > John > > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > >>Ham op wrote: >> >>>What is the purpose of a 'swinging choke'? >> >>To get it closer to the antenna feedpoint? >>-- >>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp >> >>----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- >>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215714 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:14:04 -0500 Message-ID: <11eduvt1o56p8e3@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> John; No more comments from me. Dave WD9BDZ John Smith wrote: > label the frequency determining elements? > > Why the xtal and any associated coil or cap used to "pull" the freq in the cmos oscillator... or the pin you take the signal out of on of the decade/hex/octal freq divider... > > errr, oh wait, you are speaking of the ancient stuff from museums! > That is simple, the crystal (if present) and/or coil and cap... > > hey, you didn't sneak a freq doubler in behind that osc, did ya? > > geesh... any cber would know that, well, after he read it... > > and you ain't sneaky and tryin' to run off a harmonic of that osc, are ya? > > ROFLOL!!!! > > John > > > > "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:b9e9c$42e6e27f$471c636a$13836@ALLTEL.NET... > >>and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I >>remember it... >> >> >>"David G. Nagel" wrote in message >>news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... >> >>>Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >>> >>>Dave WD9BDZ >> >> Article: 215715 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:12:49 -0500 Message-ID: <11eduths99mgv85@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Fred; Worked for me.... Dave WD9BDZ Fred W4JLE wrote: > and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I > remember it... > > > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message > news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... > >>Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >> >>Dave WD9BDZ > > > Article: 215716 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <11edun23e7qg087@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:45:44 -0700 RGF2aWQ6DQoNCkkgdHJpZWQgZHJhd2luZyBhIHBpY3R1cmUgb2YgY2xpbnRvbiBiZWZvcmUsIHN0 cmFuZ2UsIGl0IGVuZGVkIHVwIGxvb2tpbmcgbGlrZSBhIGJsdWUgZHJlc3Mgd2l0aCBhIHN0YWlu IG9uIGl0LS10aGF0IGlzIGFsbCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgdG8gaXQhISENCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiRGF2aWQg Ry4gTmFnZWwiIDxuYWdlbEBjb3JlLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBuZXdzOjExZWR1bjIz ZTdxZzA4N0Bjb3JwLnN1cGVybmV3cy5jb20uLi4NCj4gSm9objsNCj4gDQo+IEp1c3Qgd2hhdCBp biB0aGUgIGhlbGwgZG9lcyB5b3VyIGFzaW5pbmUgY29tbWVudCBvbiB0aGUgUHJlc2lkZW50IG9m IHRoZSANCj4gVW5pdGVkIFN0YXRlcyBoYXZlIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggcXVlc3Rpb25zIG9uIGFuIEFt YXRldXIgUmFkaW8gVGVzdD8NCj4gDQo+IEZvciB3aGF0IGl0J3Mgd29ydGggSSB3b3VsZCBtYWtl IHRoZSBhYm92ZSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgaWYgeW91IHdlcmUgdG8gDQo+IHJlZmVyZW5jZSBCaWxsIENs aW50b24gb3IgSmltbXkgQ2FydGVyLg0KPiANCj4gRGF2ZSBOYWdlbCBXRDlCRA0KPiANCj4gSm9o biBTbWl0aCB3cm90ZToNCj4+IERhdmlkOg0KPj4gDQo+PiBFdmVuIG5vdywgSSB3b3VsZCBoYXZl IHRvIGxvb2sgYXQgYSBkaWFncmFtLi4uIGhvd2V2ZXIsIG9uY2UgcmV2aWV3ZWQgSSBjb3VsZCBk cmF3IHlvdSBvbmUgZm9yIGEgbW9udGggb3Igc28sIGJlZm9yZSBhZ2FpbiBJIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUg dG8gbG9vay4uLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaGF0IGlzIGRpZmZpY3VsdD8gIFlvdXIgcXVlc3Rpb24gaXMg YXMgZWFzeSBhcyBhbnkgb24gdGhhdCB0ZXN0IQ0KPj4gDQo+PiBOb3cgaWYgeW91IGFza2VkIG1l IHRvIGRyYXcgeW91IGEgcGljdHVyZSBvZiBHZW9yZ2UgQnVzaCBhbmQgbWFrZSBpdCByZWFsaXN0 aWMtLUkgd291bGQgZmFpbCBmb3JldmVyLS1nYXdkLCBnZXQgYSBjbHVlIG1hbiBpZiBhbGwgeW91 IHdhbnQgdG8gZG8gaXMgbWFrZSB0aGUgdGVzdCBkaWZmaWN1bHQgYW5kIGFsbG93IGFydGlzdHMg bGljZW5zZXMhDQo+PiANCj4+IEpvaG4NCj4+IA0KPj4gIkRhdmlkIEcuIE5hZ2VsIiA8bmFnZWxA Y29yZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgbmV3czoxMWVkajB0MW9yOGpxNWFAY29ycC5zdXBl cm5ld3MuY29tLi4uDQo+PiANCj4+PkRyYXcgYSBDb2xwaXR0cyBPc2NpbGxhdG9yDQo+Pj4NCj4+ PkRhdmUgV0Q5QkRaDQo+Pj4NCj4+PkpvaG4gU21pdGggd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4NCj4+Pj5CZW46DQo+ Pj4+DQo+Pj4+R2l2ZSB1cyBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBleGFtcGxlcyBvZiB3aGF0IHlvdSB0aGluayBh cmUgZGlmZmljdWx0LCByZWxldmFudCBhbmQgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgcXVlc3Rpb25zLCBsZXQgdXMg c2VlIGhvdyBkaWZmaWN1bHQgeW91IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgInJvY2tldCBzY2llbmNlIiBpcywgZXhh Y3RseT8NCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj5JbmRlZWQsIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB5b3UgYXJlIGhh dmluZyBhIHByb2JsZW0gd2l0aCwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHRob3NlIGhlcmUgd2hpY2ggY2FuIGhlbHAg eW91Li4uDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+Sm9obg0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiJCZW4gSmFja3NvbiIgPGJlbkBiZW4u Y29tPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6c2xybmRlZDZqMy4ydm01LmJlbkBzYXR1cm4uaG9t ZS5iZW4uY29tLi4uDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+Pk9uIDIwMDUtMDctMjUsIGpnYm95bGVzQGFv bC5jb20gPGpnYm95bGVzQGFvbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+Pj5Kb2hu LCBXaHkgZGlkIHlvdSBnbyB0byBhbGwgdGhhdCB0cm91YmxlPyAgVGhlIHRlc3QgaXMgc28gZWFz eSBub3cgYQ0KPj4+Pj4+IkNhdmUgTWFuIiBjb3VsZCBwYXNzIHRoZW0uDQo+Pj4+Pg0KPj4+Pj5B Y3R1YWxseSBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBkdW1iZWQgZG93biBzbyBhIGNhdmUgbWFuIGNvdWxk IEdSQURFIHRoZW0uDQo+Pj4+PlRoYXQgZGljdGF0ZWQgbXVsdGlwbGUgY2hvaWNlLCBhbmQgaXQn cyBoYXJkIHRvIG1ha2UgYSB0b3VnaCBtdWx0aXBsZQ0KPj4+Pj5jaG9pY2UgdGVzdC4NCj4+Pj4+ DQo+Pj4+Pk9mIGNvdXJzZSB3aGF0IGRvIEkga25vdz8gIEknbSBqdXN0IGEgY2F2ZSBtYW4gd2hv IHBhc3NlZCB0aGUgdGVzdHMhDQo+Pj4+Pg0KPj4+Pj4tLSANCj4+Pj4+QmVuIEphY2tzb24NCj4+ Pj4+PGJlbkBiZW4uY29tPg0KPj4+Pj5odHRwOi8vd3d3LmJlbi5jb20v Article: 215717 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <11edus4st4lgq4c@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:46:53 -0700 RGF2aWQ6DQoNCkludGVyZXN0aW5nLCBkbyB5b3UgcmVhZCB0ZWEgbGVhdmVzIHRvbz8NCg0KSm9o bg0KDQoiRGF2aWQgRy4gTmFnZWwiIDxuYWdlbEBjb3JlLmNvbT4gd3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZSBu ZXdzOjExZWR1czRzdDRsZ3E0Y0Bjb3JwLnN1cGVybmV3cy5jb20uLi4NCj4gSm9objsNCj4gDQo+ IEknbSBzdGFydGluZyB0byBzZWUgYSB0cmVuZCBpbiB5b3VyIHJlcGxpZXMuDQo+IA0KPiANCj4g RGF2ZSBXRDlCRFoNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBKb2huIFNtaXRoIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4+IENlY2lsOg0K Pj4gDQo+PiA8c3Rvb3BpZC1wdXp6bGVkLWxvb2stb24tZmFjZT4NCj4+IA0KPj4gU29tZSBmb29s cyB0cnkgdG8gdXNlIHRoZSBkYW1uIHRoaW5ncyBpbiBwb3dlciBzdXBwbGllcyEgIA0KPj4gDQo+ PiBNYWNobyBtZW4gd2hpY2ggd2FudCBhIHJlYWwgInRhcnphbiIgKHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBzd2lu Z2VyKSBpbiB0aGVpciByYWRpbyEgKGFybm9sZCBwcm9iYWJseSBoYXMgb25lIGluIGhpcyBjb3Jk bGVzcyBwaG9uZXMgcG93ZXIgc3VwcGx5KQ0KPj4gDQo+PiBKb2huDQo+PiANCj4+ICJDZWNpbCBN b29yZSIgPHc1ZHhwQGhvdG1haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6NDJlNmUwZWMk MV8xQHNwb29sOS13ZXN0LnN1cGVyZmVlZC5uZXQuLi4NCj4+IA0KPj4+SGFtIG9wIHdyb3RlOg0K Pj4+DQo+Pj4+V2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiBhICdzd2luZ2luZyBjaG9rZSc/DQo+Pj4N Cj4+PlRvIGdldCBpdCBjbG9zZXIgdG8gdGhlIGFudGVubmEgZmVlZHBvaW50Pw0KPj4+LS0gDQo+ Pj43MywgQ2VjaWwgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucXNsLm5ldC93NWR4cA0KPj4+DQo+Pj4tLS0tPT0gUG9z dGVkIHZpYSBOZXdzZmVlZHMuQ29tIC0gVW5saW1pdGVkLVVuY2Vuc29yZWQtU2VjdXJlIFVzZW5l dCBOZXdzPT0tLS0tDQo+Pj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm5ld3NmZWVkcy5jb20gVGhlICMxIE5ld3Nncm91 cCBTZXJ2aWNlIGluIHRoZSBXb3JsZCEgMTIwLDAwMCsgTmV3c2dyb3Vwcw0KPj4+LS0tLT0gRWFz dCBhbmQgV2VzdC1Db2FzdCBTZXJ2ZXIgRmFybXMgLSBUb3RhbCBQcml2YWN5IHZpYSBFbmNyeXB0 aW9uID0tLS0t From You don't get to reply Thu Jul 28 09:42:02 EDT 2005 Article: 215718 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: NunYa Bidness Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Sender: NunYaBidness Organization: Worldwide Privacy Reply-To: You don't get to reply Message-ID: References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.232.65.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com 1122445876 ST000 69.232.65.248 (Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:31:16 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:31:16 EDT X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AO@TOVULY\BHFOQD@USXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:31:16 GMT Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wns14feed!worldnet.att.net!24.30.200.11!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!10c73d3e!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:237950 alt.engineering.electrical:112279 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215718 On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:04:05 -0700, "John Smith" Gave us: >Cecil: > >Most joking aside, you seen uuencode/uudecode in heavy use up until 1995 when the sudden flood of cheap computers brought all the "riff-raff-know-it-all-regulators" here, since then it tapered until you only see it in use on "binary mostly" chans... > Even with uuencode, Usenet had line length limits, and was and is all text. Any encoded post shows it and proves it. If you want your file to pass correctly, you limit line length, plain and simple. Otherwise your uuencode shit is just as lame as your poorly formatted shit is. Catching up yet? It was the same back then, and hasn't changed. That makes YOU the one that is talking out of your ass. There are other reasons as well, but this "Smiff" dolt doesn't even understand the order of things, he doesn't play well with others. He thinks everyone else should do as he does, when he is the dolt that is outside the box. I don't care how fucking long you claim to have been reading and using NNTP networks. You're an abject idiot. From You don't get to reply Thu Jul 28 09:42:02 EDT 2005 Article: 215719 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: NunYa Bidness Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Sender: NunYaBidness Organization: Worldwide Privacy Reply-To: You don't get to reply Message-ID: References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.232.65.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com 1122446054 ST000 69.232.65.248 (Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:34:14 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:34:14 EDT X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AO@TOVULY\BHFOQD@USXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:34:14 GMT Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!207.115.63.142!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!10c73d3e!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:237951 alt.engineering.electrical:112280 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215719 On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:04:12 -0700, "John Smith" Gave us: >Cecil: > >ahh, a man which knows good food! > >I've got some cheese, crackers and italian salami here, you still got a bottle of that wine left (napa valley, NOT french, don't bring any fry's either!), we will have lunch! > Even a frenchman knows more about Usenet than a twit like you does. Sorry to all you frenchys out there, I just happen to know what my lines are. Article: 215720 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e67603$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:35:49 -0700 TnVuWWEgTnVtTnV0czoNCg0KQmVjYXVzZSBvdXIgaW5jb21pbmcgcG9zdCBzY2FubmVyIGhhcyBk ZXRlY3RlZCB0aGF0IHlvdSBoYXZlIGZpbGVkIGEgcHJldmlvdXMgcG9zdCBjb250YWluIG11Y2gg b2YgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWF0ZXJpYWwsIG9waW5pb25zLCBjcml0aXF1ZSBvciBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucywg d2UgaGF2ZSBjaG9vc2UgdG8gcmVzcG9uZCB3aXRoIGFuIGF1dG9tYXRpYyByZXNwb25zZS4NCg0K UGxlYXNlIGhhdmUgYSBuaWNlIGRheS4NCg0KSm9obg0KDQoiTnVuWWEgQmlkbmVzcyIgPG51bnlh YmlkbmVzc0BudW55YWJpZG5lc3Mub3JnPiB3cm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIG5ld3M6bDlhZWUxZGpm Y2tqb2dva210cGgzMXN2ZnQ4cDFkcTJsY0A0YXguY29tLi4uDQo+IE9uIFR1ZSwgMjYgSnVsIDIw MDUgMTE6MDQ6MDUgLTA3MDAsICJKb2huIFNtaXRoIg0KPiA8YXNzZW1ibHl3aXphcmRAZ21haWwu Y29tPiBHYXZlIHVzOg0KPiANCj4+Q2VjaWw6DQo+Pg0KPj5Nb3N0IGpva2luZyBhc2lkZSwgeW91 IHNlZW4gdXVlbmNvZGUvdXVkZWNvZGUgaW4gaGVhdnkgdXNlIHVwIHVudGlsIDE5OTUgd2hlbiB0 aGUgc3VkZGVuIGZsb29kIG9mIGNoZWFwIGNvbXB1dGVycyBicm91Z2h0IGFsbCB0aGUgInJpZmYt cmFmZi1rbm93LWl0LWFsbC1yZWd1bGF0b3JzIiBoZXJlLCBzaW5jZSB0aGVuIGl0IHRhcGVyZWQg dW50aWwgeW91IG9ubHkgc2VlIGl0IGluIHVzZSBvbiAiYmluYXJ5IG1vc3RseSIgY2hhbnMuLi4N Cj4+DQo+IA0KPiAgRXZlbiB3aXRoIHV1ZW5jb2RlLCAgVXNlbmV0IGhhZCBsaW5lIGxlbmd0aCBs aW1pdHMsIGFuZCB3YXMgYW5kIGlzDQo+IGFsbCB0ZXh0LiAgQW55IGVuY29kZWQgcG9zdCBzaG93 cyBpdCBhbmQgcHJvdmVzIGl0LiAgSWYgeW91IHdhbnQgeW91cg0KPiBmaWxlIHRvIHBhc3MgY29y cmVjdGx5LCB5b3UgbGltaXQgbGluZSBsZW5ndGgsIHBsYWluIGFuZCBzaW1wbGUuDQo+IE90aGVy d2lzZSB5b3VyIHV1ZW5jb2RlIHNoaXQgaXMganVzdCBhcyBsYW1lIGFzIHlvdXIgcG9vcmx5IGZv cm1hdHRlZA0KPiBzaGl0IGlzLiAgQ2F0Y2hpbmcgdXAgeWV0PyBJdCB3YXMgdGhlIHNhbWUgYmFj ayB0aGVuLCBhbmQgaGFzbid0DQo+IGNoYW5nZWQuICBUaGF0IG1ha2VzIFlPVSB0aGUgb25lIHRo YXQgaXMgdGFsa2luZyBvdXQgb2YgeW91ciBhc3MuDQo+IA0KPiAgVGhlcmUgYXJlIG90aGVyIHJl YXNvbnMgYXMgd2VsbCwgYnV0IHRoaXMgIlNtaWZmIiBkb2x0IGRvZXNuJ3QgZXZlbg0KPiB1bmRl cnN0YW5kIHRoZSBvcmRlciBvZiB0aGluZ3MsIGhlIGRvZXNuJ3QgcGxheSB3ZWxsIHdpdGggb3Ro ZXJzLiAgSGUNCj4gdGhpbmtzIGV2ZXJ5b25lIGVsc2Ugc2hvdWxkIGRvIGFzIGhlIGRvZXMsIHdo ZW4gaGUgaXMgdGhlIGRvbHQgdGhhdCBpcw0KPiBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBib3guIEkgZG9uJ3QgY2Fy ZSBob3cgZnVja2luZyBsb25nIHlvdSBjbGFpbSB0byBoYXZlIGJlZW4NCj4gcmVhZGluZyBhbmQg dXNpbmcgTk5UUCBuZXR3b3Jrcy4gIFlvdSdyZSBhbiBhYmplY3QgaWRpb3Qu From You don't get to reply Thu Jul 28 09:42:03 EDT 2005 Article: 215721 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: NunYa Bidness Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Sender: NunYaBidness Organization: Worldwide Privacy Reply-To: You don't get to reply Message-ID: <3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com> References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.232.65.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com 1122446222 ST000 69.232.65.248 (Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:37:02 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:37:02 EDT X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AO@TOVULY\BHFOQD@USXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:37:02 GMT Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.218.7.141!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!10c73d3e!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:237953 alt.engineering.electrical:112282 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215721 On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:06:46 -0400, "David.Shrader" Gave us: >In the words of that greatest american philosopher: "De Ja Vous, all >over again" --- Y. Berra > >It's time to let this issue die. > Top posting idiots BOTH of you! From You don't get to reply Thu Jul 28 09:42:03 EDT 2005 Article: 215722 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: NunYa Bidness Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Sender: NunYaBidness Organization: Worldwide Privacy Reply-To: You don't get to reply Message-ID: <11bee1lfce2qapkedhb95bnhdrd2dbpp90@4ax.com> References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6e24d$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.232.65.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com 1122446493 ST000 69.232.65.248 (Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:41:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:41:33 EDT X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AO@TOVULY\BHFOQD@USXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:41:33 GMT Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!24.30.200.11!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!10c73d3e!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:237954 alt.engineering.electrical:112283 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215722 On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:20:01 -0500, Cecil Moore Gave us: >John Smith wrote: >> ... you still got a bottle of that wine left (napa valley, NOT french, ... > >Franzia Merlot from Ripon, CA. Where is Ripon? Beringer (napa) has a nice winery. Looks like a big castle and is one door down from a superior culinary school. Article: 215723 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:45:36 -0700 NunYa NimWit: You don't really mean that, do you? John "NunYa Bidness" wrote in message news:3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com... > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:06:46 -0400, "David.Shrader" > Gave us: > >>In the words of that greatest american philosopher: "De Ja Vous, all >>over again" --- Y. Berra >> >>It's time to let this issue die. >> > > Top posting idiots BOTH of you! Article: 215724 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e69fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:58:19 -0700 NunYa Redundant: You repeated requests are rewarded... this post has been wrapped at 79 chars per line, is that in line with the specs you have presented in your request? 79 is the max which usenet claims to accept, is this appearing upon your screen correctly, after processing by your ancient newsreader? John "NunYa Bidness" wrote in message news:hnaee1lahsbhk4b2n3nud33mn7ti1n1ecq@4ax.com... > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:04:12 -0700, "John Smith" > Gave us: > >>Cecil: >> >>ahh, a man which knows good food! >> >>I've got some cheese, crackers and italian salami here, you still got a >>bottle of that wine left (napa valley, NOT french, don't bring any fry's >>either!), we will have lunch! >> > > Even a frenchman knows more about Usenet than a twit like you does. > > Sorry to all you frenchys out there, I just happen to know what my > lines are. Article: 215726 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <42e215da_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <16854-42E26712-564@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net> <42e6e6df$0$22206$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Subject: Re: The Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Glare Reduction Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:26:01 -0500 Message-ID: <42e76fad_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Tom Ring" wrote > From page 810 of Terman`s 1955 edition: > "Space-wave Propagation. At frequencies above about 30 MHz, the > ionosphere is not able to refract energy to earth, " > It is comforting to note that the ancient ones were wrong about some > things. It may not happen daily, but it happens a lot at 6 meters, often > at 2 meters, and sometimes even higher. ____________ The term "space wave propagation" does not necessarily mean that the wave has to be reflected from the ionosphere (or anything else) to be useful. Microwave systems, FM and TV broadcasting, aeronautical communications, satellites, and many other point-to-point systems at VHF and above all use a space wave. Reflection/refraction of it whether from the ground, structures, or (occasionally) the ionosphere are not always beneficial to those systems. RF Article: 215727 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jock. Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:21:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <52sFe.203$d32.6073449@news.sisna.com> <42e65470$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e6799b$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> <42e6cbb7$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> On 26 Jul 2005 23:48:07 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: >In article , > Jock. writes: >> On 26 Jul 2005 17:57:48 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: >> >>>In article <42e6733f$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, >>> Cecil Moore writes: >>>> Shame on you, Reg, after what Jacques Chirac said about >>>> English food. >>> >>>Was that before or after an English resturant won both >>>the 2004 best resturant in Europe and best resturant in >>>the World titles? ;-) >> >> They were probably French or Italian restaurants. > >No. There are some French and possibily other country's dishes on >the menu, but it's most certainly not even the tinyest bit a French >or Italian Resturant. > >http://www.fatduck.co.uk/ > >The tasting menu is unique to The Fat Duck/Heston Blumenthal AFAIK. What an awful website! Strange that most of their fare is French. 73 de Jock. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw Article: 215728 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:50:05 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Message-ID: <42e7921a$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Ham op wrote: > Question to the younger crowd ... Why did I have TVI? > > Cecil, you should not answer. But, I suspect you had the same > experience. Note: Cecil and I both have formal technical training. Back around 1954, I put 600 feet of copperweld in the air, fed by a modified ART-13 running 500 watts. The lights in my room would dim during key down. The closest TV transmitter was 90 miles away in Houston. Madisonville, TX had no TV cable system at the time. When I fired up, I wiped out TV reception for a good 100 square miles. My parents took the ART-13 away from me, made me take down the 600 ft. random wire, and go back to my 40w Globe Scout and 40m dipole. :-( I also came through rather distorted on a local church's sound system. Some of the congregation thought that God was speaking to them in an unknown tongue. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215729 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Ferrell Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:44:35 GMT I like the 75 ohm because it is a good match to the dipole. If you do the 300 ohm line and make the driven element a folded dipole out of the same twin lead, it will also be a good match. Usually I have found it works well even without a good match on a dipole because the twin lead is generally a low loss line and the radiation from the feed line does not really reduce the usability of the antenna. A poor match will be inclined to generate TVI and sometime get RF back into the shack. Also, some of the newer radios will not drive anything other than 50 ohms. Most likely you have a tuner or you would not be considering a balanced line anyway. If you go with the 75 ohm scheme and feed it directly from a "modern" transceiver it will probably still work pretty well but it will be likely to generate TVI. If luck is on your side, the 300 ohm feed MIGHT work too, but not as you intended. Whatever you choose, start at low power & work your way up. I cannot figure out what you said that generated so many juvenile responses. It sounds like a reasonable question to me. On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:40:38 -0400, Eric Delongchamp wrote: > > > > >Hi ! > > > >I want to put up a 40m dipole antenna and my question is what a >transmission line to use, I have two defferent type of twin lead to >choose from, one is 75 ohm and a TV 300 ohm line. I'm using Yeasu 747 > GX and MFJ 949 E for equiment. Thanks > > > >Eric D. Article: 215730 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: Subject: Re: MAKE LOADS OF MONEY FOR FREE Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: <7f878$42e7a6dc$471c636a$25277@ALLTEL.NET> I have forwarded your income claims to the IRS so you may be properly taxed on your windfall. "Thomas Hendric" wrote in message news:GgIFe.231386$Vo6.14430@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > MAKE THOUSANDS!!! > > I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it: I don't care Article: 215731 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:33:44 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Transmission Line References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42e7aa65$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Ferrell wrote: > If luck is on your side, the 300 ohm feed MIGHT work too, but not as > you intended. Ever noticed that luck favors the knowledgeable? Multiples of 1/2WL length will work for any characteristic impedance. The 300 ohm twinlead is less lossy than 72 ohm twinlead. If 64 ft. is a convenient length for his feedline, 300 ohm twinlead is a good choice for a 1/2WL dipole probably not requiring a tuner. An added advantage is that it may also work well with a tuner on some of the higher frequencies. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215732 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:52:58 -0500 Message-ID: <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> "John Ferrell" wrote: > A poor match will be inclined to generate TVI... _________________ Could somebody please explain why feedline SWR should produce any more general TVI in the neighborhood than if the match is perfect? If the match is perfect, the antenna radiates all the power from the tx (less line loss). If anything else radiates part of that tx power (the feedline, you say), the total radiated power still can be no more than when the antenna radiates all of it. So if tx harmonic levels are the same in both cases, why should "feedline radiation" have much affect on TV receivers in the neighborhood? Are you talking about some very localized effects (tx feedline running next to your own TV set or TV antenna, etc)? RF Article: 215733 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Ken Bessler" References: <11ednjuepoh2o18@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:59:59 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Platt" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? > > > If the ladder line is cut to be an integral number of electrical > half-wavelengths, it would mirror the antenna feedpoint impedance to > the coax. There's be a good match, the SWR on the coax would be > somewhere between 1:1 and 1.5:1, and the rig would quite possibly be > happy without even needing its internal ATU. This is Good. > > On the other hand, if the ladder line is an odd number of > quarter-wavelengths, it would transform the antenna's feedpoint > impedance up to a much higher value (in excess of 1000 ohms). This > would result in a severe mismatch at the ladder-line/coax joining > point, and a high SWR on the coax. I'd expect both high losses, and a > significant amount of RF appearing on the coax braid (the coiled-coax > choke balun wouldn't have enough choking reactance). The rig's ATU > might not be able to match this load at all. This would be Bad. > Would that explain why my tuner can only get a 2.6:1 match on 12m with a 50 foot section of ladder line? Here's my (probably wrong) math: ((246/24.940)(0.92)5)= 45'4.5" That's 246 / Freq x Velocity Factor x 5 (odd quarter wavelength) On a related issue, my lowest SWR went from a broad 1.6:1 to a narrow 1.1:1 after it stopped raining. Was that the wet asphault shingles effecting the ladder line or just the wet ladder line? If it's the shingles, I could elevate the line but either way, my tuner handles it. Should I care? I've now plotted the SWR and (dry), the curve is nearly the same as it was before I raised the antenna - it's just centered about 45 khz higher and a bit narrower. This is with the tuner in bypass mode. Thanks for all the help, guys! Ken -- Just my 2¢... 73 es gd dx de Ken KGØWX Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #-1055 Proud builder & owner of Elecraft K2 #4913 Article: 215734 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:18:10 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? References: <11ednjuepoh2o18@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: <42e7c2de$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Ken Bessler wrote: > ((246/24.940)(0.92)5)= 45'4.5" > > That's 246 / Freq x Velocity Factor x 5 (odd quarter wavelength) Calculated values rarely ever take all the variables into account. Virtually all calculated values have to be adjusted, i.e. cut and tried, to achieve the desired results. What SWR do you get when you increase the length by one foot? What SWR do you get when you decrease the length by one foot? > On a related issue, my lowest SWR went from a broad 1.6:1 to a > narrow 1.1:1 after it stopped raining. Was that the wet asphault shingles > effecting the ladder line or just the wet ladder line? If it's the shingles, > I could elevate the line but either way, my tuner handles it. Should I care? Do you care? :-) It is a good idea to keep ladder-line a few inches away from anything that might adversely affect it. That includes wet asphalt shingles. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215735 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e7921a$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:53:25 -0700 Cecil: Ahhh, the "control freak" parents, I remember that generation of parents well--I had a fully functional set of them myself (frown.) With me it was tesla coils. But same result, constant complaining from citizens I share this ether with--about interference with tv, radios, guitar amps, etc... Made me wonder how Nicola Tesla got his start? It was when I started winding them of heavy gauge wire on carpet tubes (massive varnished cardboard tubes used to roll up large rugs) and using banks of 15KV neon sign transformers with humongous caps wound from yards of aluminum foil and visqueen plastic sheet with spark gaps constructed from tungsten alloy to withstand the punishment--that the real trouble began, fuses began blowing and corona discharges yards long... that kind of "light show" and "booming/snapping" of the sparkgap was difficult to cloak from sight. I became addicted to the smell of ozone, more addictive than heroin to a "rf nut!" You and I are kindred spirits in our natural gift to be annoying without trying... :( John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42e7921a$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > Ham op wrote: >> Question to the younger crowd ... Why did I have TVI? >> >> Cecil, you should not answer. But, I suspect you had the same experience. >> Note: Cecil and I both have formal technical training. > > Back around 1954, I put 600 feet of copperweld in the air, > fed by a modified ART-13 running 500 watts. The lights > in my room would dim during key down. > > The closest TV transmitter was 90 miles away in Houston. > Madisonville, TX had no TV cable system at the time. When > I fired up, I wiped out TV reception for a good 100 square > miles. My parents took the ART-13 away from me, made me take > down the 600 ft. random wire, and go back to my 40w Globe > Scout and 40m dipole. :-( > > I also came through rather distorted on a local church's > sound system. Some of the congregation thought that God > was speaking to them in an unknown tongue. :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 > Newsgroups > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215736 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> <11efka9qbrmu0fb@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:30:55 -0700 Roy: Even if you have me bit-bucketed, thanks for that info. I am one who was ignorant to what you present in your text--I always expected increased line radiation with a mismatch. Now that you have stated it in text, it is plain a balun would prevent most if not all of this... I will re-evaluate and brush up on what I have certainly missed before. Warmest regards, John "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message news:11efka9qbrmu0fb@corp.supernews.com... > Richard Fry wrote: >> "John Ferrell" wrote: >> >>> A poor match will be inclined to generate TVI... >> >> _________________ >> >> Could somebody please explain why feedline SWR should produce any more >> general TVI in the neighborhood than if the match is perfect? >> >> If the match is perfect, the antenna radiates all the power from the tx >> (less line loss). If anything else radiates part of that tx power (the >> feedline, you say), the total radiated power still can be no more than when >> the antenna radiates all of it. So if tx harmonic levels are the same in >> both cases, why should "feedline radiation" have much affect on TV receivers >> in the neighborhood? >> >> Are you talking about some very localized effects (tx feedline running next >> to your own TV set or TV antenna, etc)? >> >> RF > > It sounds like you've confused feedline SWR with feedline radiation. Those > are two different effects. A line can have 1:1 SWR and radiate, or 10:1 and > not radiate. SWR is determined solely by the differential load impedance and > the line Z0. Feedline radiation is determined only by the amount and > distribution of common mode current on the transmission line and of course > its length. > > The line SWR can be altered only by impedance matching at the load or > changing the line's Z0. Feedline radiation is reduced by using one or more > current baluns (common mode chokes) or a tuner with an inherently balanced > output such as link coupling. While changing the feedline radiation can > change the SWR (by changing the radiating part of the antenna), changing the > SWR by altering the differential load impedance has no effect on the common > mode current and hence the line radiation. (Anything which alters the common > mode impedance of the antenna, which depending on its design a differential > matching circuit might do, can change the line radiation. But it's not > because of the change in SWR; it's because of how the matching circuit alters > the common mode impedance.) > > Only feedline radiation is associated with TVI; SWR isn't. > > Feedline radiation can cause increased TVI and other RFI if the transmission > line is routed in a way that it can couple to power lines, telephone lines, > TV cable, and other conductors which take RF into homes and close to TV sets > and other electronic devices. (I've had more trouble with modern telephones > than anything else.) Radiating antennas can, of course, do the same thing and > to an even greater degree -- an attic transmitting antenna can often cause > problems, for example. But feedline radiation can increase the RFI potential > of an antenna that's otherwise far away from other conductors. The problem is > simply one of effectively bringing part of the antenna into the house. It is, > as you say, a localized effect, although it can affect a neighborhood by > conduction and radiation from the conductors into which the feedline > radiation is coupling. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 215737 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:34:31 GMT NunYa Bidness wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:06:46 -0400, "David.Shrader" > Gave us: > > >>In the words of that greatest american philosopher: "De Ja Vous, all >>over again" --- Y. Berra >> >>It's time to let this issue die. >> > > > Top posting idiots BOTH of you! One, and possibly the only good thing about top posting is that it pisses you off. -- ;-) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. http://turner-smith.co.uk Article: 215738 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:36:21 -0400 Message-ID: <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> John, the digital age can come to an end in a heartbeat. An EMP pulse may well wipe out the computers. CW which requires nothing but the human mind to get data through will be with us to the end of humanity. As hams we need to be able to provide communications under the worst imaginable scenario. I, and many of the hams on here could in short order build a simple transmitter and receiver capable of CW operation and get a message through. What if no one on the other end is capable of receiving the message? I guess you can ride like Paul Revere as your car will no longer run unless you drive an old pre-computer model. The DMV may indeed be asking questions as to what to do when your horse takes a dump in public. I don't care if the FCC and the rest of the world makes stupid decisions, I have no problems with anyone who enters amateur radio via slow/no code. My objection is with sacrificing a skill that may be required to save lives and property for the sake of increasing numbers. Too bad a neat skill set was viewed as a determent... "John Smith" wrote in message news:1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com... > Ohhh, ask historical questions... > > Well, this is the digital age, fat chance of those questions ever getting there again... > > However, when the DMV starts asking questions on how to properly groom a horse--and what to do if the horse ever farts in public--you will know that world is ripe for such... > > John Article: 215739 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:39:06 -0400 Message-ID: <68379$42e7e31c$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> In a colpitts oscillator? It works the same if you use solid state or hollow state. "John Smith" wrote in message news:vOBFe.339$nY4.18923666@news.sisna.com... > label the frequency determining elements? > > Why the xtal and any associated coil or cap used to "pull" the freq in the cmos oscillator... or the pin you take the signal out of on of the decade/hex/octal freq divider... > > errr, oh wait, you are speaking of the ancient stuff from museums! > That is simple, the crystal (if present) and/or coil and cap... > > hey, you didn't sneak a freq doubler in behind that osc, did ya? > > geesh... any cber would know that, well, after he read it... > > and you ain't sneaky and tryin' to run off a harmonic of that osc, are ya? > > ROFLOL!!!! > > John > > > > "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:b9e9c$42e6e27f$471c636a$13836@ALLTEL.NET... > > and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I > > remember it... > > > > > > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message > > news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... > >> Draw a Colpitts Oscillator > >> > >> Dave WD9BDZ > > > > Article: 215740 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <42e6e0ec$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42e7921a$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:52:49 -0400 Message-ID: <963d0$42e7e61f$471c636a$3244@ALLTEL.NET> A buddy of mine and I had some buzzers that were used as signaling devices on the city busses. We discovered that when we activated them they played hell with an AM radio. We decided that if we hooked a bunch of wire to each terminal of the buzzer contacts we might be able to send messages between our houses. He lived four doors down. Armed with the buzzers and a couple of Philco radios we were in business. Seems we had rediscovered spark gap transmitters much to the consternation of the neighbors. All went well until our neighbor six doors down, John Cummings W8DSL, took umbrage to our mode of transmission. Seems he could read code even better then we could and soon ferreted us out. For a couple of ten year olds it was a lot of fun messing up Stella Dallas et al that our moms listened to. "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42e7921a$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > Ham op wrote: > > Question to the younger crowd ... Why did I have TVI? > > > > Cecil, you should not answer. But, I suspect you had the same > > experience. Note: Cecil and I both have formal technical training. > > Back around 1954, I put 600 feet of copperweld in the air, > fed by a modified ART-13 running 500 watts. The lights > in my room would dim during key down. > > The closest TV transmitter was 90 miles away in Houston. > Madisonville, TX had no TV cable system at the time. When > I fired up, I wiped out TV reception for a good 100 square > miles. My parents took the ART-13 away from me, made me take > down the 600 ft. random wire, and go back to my 40w Globe > Scout and 40m dipole. :-( > > I also came through rather distorted on a local church's > sound system. Some of the congregation thought that God > was speaking to them in an unknown tongue. :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Article: 215741 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Transmission Line Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:01:23 -0000 Message-ID: <11efq0jlporii87@corp.supernews.com> References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> In article <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net>, Richard Fry wrote: >Could somebody please explain why feedline SWR should produce any more >general TVI in the neighborhood than if the match is perfect? My guess is that this belief is true in some cases... specifically the following: - You have a dipole, or other balanced antenna - You're feeding it with coax - The dipole has a feedpoint impedance which is high (resistive and/or reactive) at the frequency of interest - You don't have a balun at the feedpoint, or your balun has only a modest amount of choking reactance - Your coax is somewhere near a half-wavelength long (or a multiple thereof) from the antenna to the point at which its first ground occurs. In this situation, you're likely to have a lot of RF on the outside of the coax, as its braid will present a path for the ground-side current which is significantly less than that of the antenna. You could end up with "RF in the shack" problems, or the various other problems which can result from having high levels of RF flowing near other consumer-electronics devices. If your feedline happens to be parallel to a cable-TV line, its radiation may tend to induce a significant RF current on the outside of the cable-TV coax, and might bleed to the inside. This could result in fundamental-overload problems in the TV or distribution amplifier. If your feedline runs near a metal gutter or downspout, or near a stucco wall with chicken-wire mesh in it, it might induce strong enough RF currents to cause rectification noise in the joints, and the generation of undesired harmonics of your transmit frequency which might fall into the TV frequency band. Similar generation of harmonics can occur, I gather, if you push a ferrite-core balun too hard, and saturate the ferrite. If I recall correctly, 6-meter operation is notorious for causing RFI due to both fundamental overload (Channel 2 is often affected due to its proximity to the 6-meter band) and to second-harmonic spurs falling in the FM band. If you've got RF coming back down into the shack, you might have some of the RF-ground current getting into your household AC power ground, and bleeding into the TV sets via their line cords. All of these are things which can occur with any antenna, of course... they're just exaggerated (to whatever extent) by RF-on-the-coax due to the RF's greater proximity to the affected TVs. In all of these cases, I'd expect problems to be more apparent for nearby TV sets (same building) than those far away. In urban areas, with people living in apartments or condos, the "neighborhood" can consist of quite a few people living in individual households within 100 feet of the transmitter and antenna. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 215742 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Transmission Line Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:15:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> <11efka9qbrmu0fb@corp.supernews.com> John, this business about problems caused by radiation from feedlines is very much exaggerated. It occurs far less frequently than it is mentioned on this newsgroups. It's just something to waffle about. It's perfectly obvious far more near-field interference occurs due to radiation from the ANTENNA. Especially when the beam is pointing towards the house. The antenna is designed and intended to radiate. Whereas the feedline only does it because of occasional imperfections and by accident. Most of the time it is not detectable as interference from either antenna or the line. {Actually, it is nonsense to discuss things in terms of separate radiation from line and antenna. I am obliged to do so here to make myself understood and avoid accusations of trolling.} ---- Reg Article: 215743 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:59:49 -0700 Fred: I have nothing against those who wish to maintain ancient technology for when the "madmax age" (I think I even look a bit like Mel Gibson--too bad the women can't see the similarity!) arrives we will be prepared, I am just against FORCING people to do this. I am against requiring them in being proficient in sending smoke signals, shoot arrows with messages attached, using carrier pidgeon or being able to pass messages between villages by "african message drum" also, if we get there, we will pick it up fast enough... John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET... > John, the digital age can come to an end in a heartbeat. An EMP pulse may > well wipe out the computers. > > CW which requires nothing but the human mind to get data through will be > with us to the end of humanity. > > As hams we need to be able to provide communications under the worst > imaginable scenario. I, and many of the hams on here could in short order > build a simple transmitter and receiver capable of CW operation and get a > message through. What if no one on the other end is capable of receiving the > message? > > I guess you can ride like Paul Revere as your car will no longer run unless > you drive an old pre-computer model. The DMV may indeed be asking questions > as to what to do when your horse takes a dump in public. > > I don't care if the FCC and the rest of the world makes stupid decisions, I > have no problems with anyone who enters amateur radio via slow/no code. My > objection is with sacrificing a skill that may be required to save lives and > property for the sake of increasing numbers. > > Too bad a neat skill set was viewed as a determent... > > "John Smith" wrote in message > news:1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com... >> Ohhh, ask historical questions... >> >> Well, this is the digital age, fat chance of those questions ever getting > there again... >> >> However, when the DMV starts asking questions on how to properly groom a > horse--and what to do if the horse ever farts in public--you will know that > world is ripe for such... >> >> John > > Article: 215744 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <68379$42e7e31c$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:03:43 -0700 actually, it takes a bit of wave shaping to get that square, saw tooth or ramp into a decent sinewave out of most of the digital signal sources osc's... you don't need to start with a perfect sine being produced at the osc level... John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:68379$42e7e31c$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET... > In a colpitts oscillator? It works the same if you use solid state or hollow > state. > > "John Smith" wrote in message > news:vOBFe.339$nY4.18923666@news.sisna.com... >> label the frequency determining elements? >> >> Why the xtal and any associated coil or cap used to "pull" the freq in the > cmos oscillator... or the pin you take the signal out of on of the > decade/hex/octal freq divider... >> >> errr, oh wait, you are speaking of the ancient stuff from museums! >> That is simple, the crystal (if present) and/or coil and cap... >> >> hey, you didn't sneak a freq doubler in behind that osc, did ya? >> >> geesh... any cber would know that, well, after he read it... >> >> and you ain't sneaky and tryin' to run off a harmonic of that osc, are ya? >> >> ROFLOL!!!! >> >> John >> >> >> >> "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message > news:b9e9c$42e6e27f$471c636a$13836@ALLTEL.NET... >> > and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I >> > remember it... >> > >> > >> > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message >> > news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... >> >> Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >> >> >> >> Dave WD9BDZ >> > >> > > > Article: 215745 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <7r3de1dcmq3h30cdn81407he6grcd2ob4j@4ax.com> <42e7ae39_5@newsfeed.slurp.net> <11efka9qbrmu0fb@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Transmission Line Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:27:43 -0700 Reg: I think I got you on this point, my observations have indicated that some times the antenna is REALLY the antenna, however there are other times when the "antenna" can consist of BOTH the feedline and the antenna... Long time ago I did some experiments with a fsm which could only "see" the coax and not the antenna--I introduced mismatches at the point between antenna and coax--perhaps by accident there was a correlation noted?, each time a mismatch was seen to introduce increased line radiation on the fsm, I just thought this would always be the case, now I am placed back in doubt... ... thanks reg, but don't let them give you that "TROLL LICENSE" though, you don't deserve it! Besides, there is element 1 which has to passed first, the ability to send "TROLL MORSE" at "twenty-troll-words-a-minute." You'd never succeed reg :( John "Reg Edwards" wrote in message news:dc8q12$o9$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com... > > John, this business about problems caused by radiation from feedlines > is very much exaggerated. It occurs far less frequently than it is > mentioned on this newsgroups. It's just something to waffle about. > > It's perfectly obvious far more near-field interference occurs due to > radiation from the ANTENNA. Especially when the beam is pointing > towards the house. > > The antenna is designed and intended to radiate. Whereas the feedline > only does it because of occasional imperfections and by accident. > Most of the time it is not detectable as interference from either > antenna or the line. > > {Actually, it is nonsense to discuss things in terms of separate > radiation from line and antenna. I am obliged to do so here to make > myself understood and avoid accusations of trolling.} > ---- > Reg > > Article: 215746 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:50:11 -0500 Message-ID: <11eg0cm98q0qt89@corp.supernews.com> References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> If you think back to the first Star Trek movie it took good old fashioned Morse Code to communicate with "V'ger" (Voyager) Dave N Fred W4JLE wrote: > John, the digital age can come to an end in a heartbeat. An EMP pulse may > well wipe out the computers. > > CW which requires nothing but the human mind to get data through will be > with us to the end of humanity. > > As hams we need to be able to provide communications under the worst > imaginable scenario. I, and many of the hams on here could in short order > build a simple transmitter and receiver capable of CW operation and get a > message through. What if no one on the other end is capable of receiving the > message? > > I guess you can ride like Paul Revere as your car will no longer run unless > you drive an old pre-computer model. The DMV may indeed be asking questions > as to what to do when your horse takes a dump in public. > > I don't care if the FCC and the rest of the world makes stupid decisions, I > have no problems with anyone who enters amateur radio via slow/no code. My > objection is with sacrificing a skill that may be required to save lives and > property for the sake of increasing numbers. > > Too bad a neat skill set was viewed as a determent... > > "John Smith" wrote in message > news:1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com... > >>Ohhh, ask historical questions... >> >>Well, this is the digital age, fat chance of those questions ever getting > > there again... > >>However, when the DMV starts asking questions on how to properly groom a > > horse--and what to do if the horse ever farts in public--you will know that > world is ripe for such... > >>John > > > Article: 215747 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? Message-ID: <1f2ge1pgrveelvgbslnrc4fu7ldkvp9qbj@4ax.com> References: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:43:34 GMT On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:01:17 -0500, "Ken Bessler" wrote: >"Ken Bessler" wrote in message news:... > >> My current antenna is a modified Van Gordon "All Bander". >> For reference, the stock antenna is 134' of 14g stranded >> bare copper fed with 100' of 450 ohm ladder line. I cut off >> half of the ladder line and replaced it with a 12 turn, 5-1/4" >> rg58 coil. 20 feet of rg58 goes from the coil into the shack. >> I then trimmed the antenna to 7.175 mhz. >> >> The antenna is a flat dipole up 20'. Seems to work OK but >> I've got the itch to improve it. The feed point is 12" above >> the peak of my roof. I was thinking about installing a 5' tripod >> and 2 ten foot masts to elevate the antenna's feed point and >> convert it into an inverted V. There will be no need to add to >> the feedline. >> > > > > >Well, it's up guys! The apex is about 40' and the ends are 28'. >Comparing it to my other antennas I'm seeing about a 1-1/2 to >2 S unit improvement on 40m and more on the higher bands. > >I did a SWR plot before and after changing it and here's the >sticking point: Before, I had a 2:1 range from 6.900-7.280 and >now I've got 7.000-7.300 but the minimum SWR went from >1.10:1 to 1.55:1. My Elecraft KAT2 autotuner handles that very >easily but I'm wondering what would happen if I added 12 feet >to my 50' of 450 ohm ladder line? Would the minimum SWR >get better or just move? Or both? Does it really matter? (I don't >think it matters based on what I've read here). Ken, this is all a bit scant on detail, and can't be interpreted with certainty, so i am probably wasting my time running the numbers. All the following in premised on my interpretation of your rather loose description, and is only applicable to your situation if what you have done is *very* close to my interpretation. I think you have said you have cut a 135' dipole down to 7Mhz, so if that means it is a half wave long at 7MHz, the feedpoint impedance at resonance mounted low as you have described is probably somewhere about 60+j0 ohms. If you transform that with 50' of ladder line (I have modelled Wireman 554), the Zin to the ladder is around 110-j310 and the ladder line has about 0.25dB of loss. You describe a coil of RG58 that seems to be 15' in length and a further 20' of the same. That will transform 110-j310 ohms to 5+j14 at the ATU end with about 2.5dB of loss. The RG58 operates at high VSWR (~12), and although relatively short, the loss is IMHO unacceptable. There will be a little tuner loss, but it will be insignificant relative to the 2.7dB of feedline loss. If you want to improve the configuration, the RG58 has to be a prime target of your attention. Most of the real power you deliver to the feedpoint will be radiated (ie conductor losses in the dipole are relatively insignificant), the challenge is to get the power to the feedpoint. In your case you are probably getting around 50% of the transmitter power to the feedpoint. The closer the dipole is to ground, the more radiation is concentrated upwards, so if you want low angle radiation, raising the dipole height helps. Owen -- Article: 215748 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Subject: Re: Raising a 40m dipole.....It's up! Now what? Message-ID: References: <1f2ge1pgrveelvgbslnrc4fu7ldkvp9qbj@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:50:25 GMT On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:43:34 GMT, Owen wrote: >ohms to 5+j14 at the ATU end with about 2.5dB of loss. The RG58 >operates at high VSWR (~12), and although relatively short, the loss >is IMHO unacceptable. I should have added that the VSWR at the ATU end is as low as around 12, and is closer to 20 at the far end. (Knowing VSWR doesn't provide the solution to this problem.) Owen -- Article: 215749 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:08:57 -0700 Fred: There is no "price of admission" which needs be paid, the tests should reflect a logical, necessary "instruction" for what a guy/gal will need to get a radio and enter the hobby on level which is inline with his/her interests... Morse has no place in this age, few will ever be interested in a key... if they are, no one will stop them from picking one up. Long live amateur radio, and long stay dead the key... John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:a4131$42e8039d$471c636a$6788@ALLTEL.NET... > John, no one has ever been "forced" to learn CW to become a ham. Everything > in life has a price of admission. You may choose to pay the price or not. > > I have never heard of "press gangs" capturing people and forcing them to > learn CW. > > Neither have I seen a movie titled "Two Years Before The Key" > > Like I say, I don't have a dog in the code/nocode fight. I personally feel > that it is a necessary tool. YMMV > > > "John Smith" wrote in message > news:2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com... >> Fred: >> >> I have nothing against those who wish to maintain ancient technology for > when >> the "madmax age" (I think I even look a bit like Mel Gibson--too bad the > women >> can't see the similarity!) arrives we will be prepared, I am just against >> FORCING people to do this. >> >> I am against requiring them in being proficient in sending smoke signals, > shoot >> arrows with messages attached, using carrier pidgeon or being able to pass >> messages between villages by "african message drum" also, if we get there, > we >> will pick it up fast enough... >> >> John >> >> "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message >> news:423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET... >> > John, the digital age can come to an end in a heartbeat. An EMP pulse > may >> > well wipe out the computers. >> > >> > CW which requires nothing but the human mind to get data through will be >> > with us to the end of humanity. >> > >> > As hams we need to be able to provide communications under the worst >> > imaginable scenario. I, and many of the hams on here could in short > order >> > build a simple transmitter and receiver capable of CW operation and get > a >> > message through. What if no one on the other end is capable of receiving > the >> > message? >> > >> > I guess you can ride like Paul Revere as your car will no longer run > unless >> > you drive an old pre-computer model. The DMV may indeed be asking > questions >> > as to what to do when your horse takes a dump in public. >> > >> > I don't care if the FCC and the rest of the world makes stupid > decisions, I >> > have no problems with anyone who enters amateur radio via slow/no code. > My >> > objection is with sacrificing a skill that may be required to save lives > and >> > property for the sake of increasing numbers. >> > >> > Too bad a neat skill set was viewed as a determent... >> > >> > "John Smith" wrote in message >> > news:1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com... >> >> Ohhh, ask historical questions... >> >> >> >> Well, this is the digital age, fat chance of those questions ever > getting >> > there again... >> >> >> >> However, when the DMV starts asking questions on how to properly groom > a >> > horse--and what to do if the horse ever farts in public--you will know > that >> > world is ripe for such... >> >> >> >> John >> > >> > >> >> > > Article: 215750 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:35:06 -0700 Ham op: I don't even enjoy chat with male ops! I like a nice female voice, either am/ssb/fm with an aussie or british accent... Contacts for the sake of contacts? List of countries I "want" to chat with? Number of contacts? Naaa, none of the above interest me, they did when I first got my license--but soon (over a year or two) tired of that... Hey, what can I say.... Perhaps I am not your "normal" ham... ya think? John "Ham op" wrote in message news:n9WdnV77uJV1inXfRVn-3w@comcast.com... > John Smith wrote: > > SNIPPED >> >> Long live amateur radio, and long stay dead the key... >> >> John >> > > John, I don't know if you do serious DX. But, I will witness that DX on CW is > a heck of a lot easier and faster than on SSB. > > As long as there is 'exotic DX' CW will live. > Article: 215751 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Ham op wrote: > John Smith wrote: > > SNIPPED > >> >> Long live amateur radio, and long stay dead the key... >> >> John >> > > John, I don't know if you do serious DX. I suspect that "John" is not supposed to use his station to transmit more than 150 miles. ac6xg Article: 215752 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron in NY) Subject: How does your Butternut Vertical work ??? Message-ID: <42e8249e.4254591@news.optonline.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:21:14 GMT I posted this in the wrong group--Let's try it here. =============================================================== Hi again all, It looks like I'm going to get a Butternut HF9VX vertical to replace my 25 year old Hustler 5BTV. I looked at Gap verticals, but in all the pictures I've seen, they seem to have some kind of horizontal array at the bottom. I plan on ground mounting this thing, and I'm afraid someone will trip on the array and destroy it or themself. My old Hustler had no horizontal elements at ground level, and in all the pics I've seen of the Butternut verticals, it looks like there is nothing sticking out at the bottom either. Is there anything at the bottom of the Butternuts, and what's your experience with them ??? RON KA2IIA ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 215753 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:25:34 -0700 Jim: Interesting. Do you do psychic consultations also? If so, life must be tough trying to be an accurate psychic! A twelve year old could mount a better attempt on my anonymity. Even sharpened insults are thwarted by this old elephants hide... ROFLOL... John "Jim Kelley" wrote in message news:dc95q9$l8q$1@news.service.uci.edu... > > > Ham op wrote: > >> John Smith wrote: >> >> SNIPPED >> >>> >>> Long live amateur radio, and long stay dead the key... >>> >>> John >>> >> >> John, I don't know if you do serious DX. > > I suspect that "John" is not supposed to use his station to transmit more > than 150 miles. > > ac6xg > > > > > > > > > Article: 215754 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:33:38 -0700 ... I maintain dual citizenship (cb/amateur) If you ask who are the most fun? CB'ers! If you ask who is the most helpful on the highway? Truckers! If you ask the most interesting evening chat? Local CB'ers! If you ask, who there are the most of in my city? CB'ers! Now, if you ask what is the best method of communications? THE INTERNET and MSN chat, yahoo chat, IRC chat, webcam chat, newsgroups, etc, etc.... Hey, you know all of this, look where you are! ... some of this is a real no-brainer yanno... John "John Smith" wrote in message news:hCVFe.109$Mq6.927898@news.sisna.com... > Jim: > > Interesting. > > Do you do psychic consultations also? > > If so, life must be tough trying to be an accurate psychic! > > A twelve year old could mount a better attempt on my anonymity. Even > sharpened insults are thwarted by this old elephants hide... > > ROFLOL... > > John > > "Jim Kelley" wrote in message > news:dc95q9$l8q$1@news.service.uci.edu... >> >> >> Ham op wrote: >> >>> John Smith wrote: >>> >>> SNIPPED >>> >>>> >>>> Long live amateur radio, and long stay dead the key... >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>> >>> John, I don't know if you do serious DX. >> >> I suspect that "John" is not supposed to use his station to transmit more >> than 150 miles. >> >> ac6xg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Article: 215755 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <4e187$42e8343f$471c636a$8867@ALLTEL.NET> I don't remember ever seeing anyone acuse you of being normal. "John Smith" wrote in message news:QSUFe.100$4c.1091687@news.sisna.com... ************* Snipped **************** => Hey, what can I say.... > > Perhaps I am not your "normal" ham... ya think? > > John > Article: 215756 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Nielsen Subject: Re: Vertical (Butternut, Titan) vs Carolina Windom Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:49:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:00:25 -0400, Joe Guthart wrote: > I'm starting to explore getting a new antenna for HF ... thus far the options that I've looked at are a vertical ground mount with a counterpoise kit (can't really do radials in my yard). The models that have come up often are the Butternut HF9V and the Gap Titan. Both seem similar. The Butternut's are more expensive and the Gap Titan seems to have good reviews and then has a few folks who say it's worthless. Alternatively, I've looked at a horizontal such as a Carolina Windom. The problem I have with this is that I only have one large tree to tie off to. To do a horizontal right, I would have to have to use a mast for the other end. I've also heard and seen several people that have used some of the break apart masts to do this and they have ended up with a broken mast. > > Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > > > > > > > >
I'm starting to explore getting a new antenna for > HF ... thus far the options that I've looked at are a vertical ground mount with > a counterpoise kit (can't really do radials in my yard).  The models that > have come up often are the Butternut HF9V and the Gap Titan.  Both seem > similar.  The Butternut's are more expensive and the Gap Titan seems to > have good reviews and then has a few folks who say it's worthless.  > Alternatively, I've looked at a horizontal such as a Carolina Windom.  The > problem I have with this is that I only have one large tree to tie off to.  > To do a horizontal right, I would have to have to use a mast for the other > end.  I've also heard and seen several people that have used some of the > break apart masts to do this and they have ended up with a broken > mast.  
>
 
>
Any advice is greatly appreciated.  > Thanks.
>
 
>
 
> > ------=_NextPart_000_014E_01C592BB.EB6A0260-- Two points of advice: 1. Don't post in HTML! 2. Take a look at the Cushcraft R8 and the Hy-Gain AV-640 (which is similar, but has no traps). You also might want to study the K7LXC/N0AX report on verticals at . This report compares measurements of several popular verticals. 73, Bob N7XY Article: 215757 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <1YAFe.330$hW4.18857004@news.sisna.com> <423a6$42e7e31a$471c636a$12707@ALLTEL.NET> <2JRFe.75$dP4.692355@news.sisna.com> <8CTFe.90$y96.882728@news.sisna.com> <4e187$42e8343f$471c636a$8867@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:39:29 -0700 Fred: Thanks. Well, I am just paranoid, in constant fear of being accused... :| John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:4e187$42e8343f$471c636a$8867@ALLTEL.NET... >I don't remember ever seeing anyone acuse you of being normal. > > "John Smith" wrote in message > news:QSUFe.100$4c.1091687@news.sisna.com... > > ************* Snipped **************** > => Hey, what can I say.... >> >> Perhaps I am not your "normal" ham... ya think? >> >> John >> > > Article: 215758 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <8O9Fe.58$9V2.508040@news.sisna.com> <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <11eduvt1o56p8e3@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: <0OWFe.132$n62.1858597@news.sisna.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:46:34 -0700 David: Actually, I miss ya bud... ... come back! John "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:11eduvt1o56p8e3@corp.supernews.com... > John; > > No more comments from me. > > Dave WD9BDZ > > > John Smith wrote: > >> label the frequency determining elements? >> >> Why the xtal and any associated coil or cap used to "pull" the freq in the >> cmos oscillator... or the pin you take the signal out of on of the >> decade/hex/octal freq divider... >> >> errr, oh wait, you are speaking of the ancient stuff from museums! >> That is simple, the crystal (if present) and/or coil and cap... >> >> hey, you didn't sneak a freq doubler in behind that osc, did ya? >> >> geesh... any cber would know that, well, after he read it... >> >> and you ain't sneaky and tryin' to run off a harmonic of that osc, are ya? >> >> ROFLOL!!!! >> >> John >> >> >> >> "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message >> news:b9e9c$42e6e27f$471c636a$13836@ALLTEL.NET... >> >>>and label the frequency determining elements. At least that is how I >>>remember it... >>> >>> >>>"David G. Nagel" wrote in message >>>news:11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com... >>> >>>>Draw a Colpitts Oscillator >>>> >>>>Dave WD9BDZ >>> >>> Article: 215759 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Big Mac. Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:39:55 +0100 Message-ID: References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <4le4d1pn0mnp42553fkftehhk8flglk6as@4ax.com> <35CAe.8796$184.2063@newsfe2-win.ntli.net> <75s5d1pubap3gfufv3o5k1ei55v3thnbil@4ax.com> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:48:25 , "Tom Donaly" wrote: >> We "funded" the IRA? > >The British have always been under the impression that >we Americans saved our pennies for the sole purpose of >sending them to the IRA to finance the IRA's terrorist practices. >This is news to those of us who lived through the whole >era without giving anyone anything, or even taking sides >on the issue. There may have been a few Irish expatriots on >the East Coast who contributed to the IRA during that time, >but, for most Americans, it was a struggle that just didn't >register. >73, >Tom Donaly, KA6RUH "Irish expatriots" ? That'd be another euphemism for "financers of terrorism" as Dubbya refers to those backing Bin Laden & Co. Huh? Do I detect the first nauseating whiff of history being rewritten, to expunge all traces of Stateside involvement with funding Irish terrorism? It's just a shame that Martin McGuinness is (according to US news networks) in the US telling American financial backers, before announcing to everybody else, that the "armed struggle" aka terrorism, is being called off. This is how it works. First you tell your bank, then you tell the rest. That way it keeps your bank sweet for the next time you want more bucks. Big Mac. From - Thu Jul 28 09:42:11 EDT 2005 Article: 215760 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Reply-To: "Thierry" <-> From: "Thierry" <-> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx Subject: ARRL 20 july, FCC Proposes to Drop Morse Code Requirement for All License Classes Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:37:24 +0200 Lines: 100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 NNTP-Posting-Host: tvsurf-habscht1-134.pt.lu Message-ID: <42e88b37$1@news.vo.lu> X-Trace: news.vo.lu 1122536247 213.166.42.134 (28 Jul 2005 09:37:27 +0200) Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.vo.lu!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215760 rec.radio.amateur.dx:29241 FYI - FCC Proposes to Drop Morse Code Requirement for All License Classes Thierry, ON4SKY http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry Text found on ARRL at http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/07/20/100/?nc=1 NEWINGTON, CT, July 20, 2005--The FCC has proposed dropping the 5 WPM Morse code element as a requirement to obtain an Amateur Radio license of any class. The Commission recommended the change to its Part 97 Amateur Service rules in a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) in WT Docket 05-235. Any rule changes proposed in the NPRM would not become final until the FCC gathers additional public comments, formally adopts any changes to its rules and concludes the proceeding by issuing a Report and Order (R&O) spelling out the changes and specifying an effective date. That's not likely to happen for several months. The FCC declined in its NPRM to go forward with any other suggested changes to Amateur Service licensing rules or operating privileges beyond elimination of the Morse requirement. "Based upon the petitions and comments, we propose to amend our amateur service rules to eliminate the requirement that individuals pass a telegraphy examination in order to qualify for any amateur radio operator license," the FCC said in its NPRM, released July 19. This week's NPRM consolidated 18 petitions for rule making from the amateur community--including one from the ARRL--that proposed a wide range of additional changes to the amateur rules. The FCC said the various petitions had attracted 6200 comments from the amateur community, which soon will have the opportunity to comment again--this time on the FCC's proposals in response to those petitions. The Commission said it believes dropping Element 1--the 5 WPM Morse examination--would "encourage individuals who are interested in communications technology, or who are able to contribute to the advancement of the radio art, to become amateur radio operators." The FCC said it also would eliminate a requirement it believes "is now unnecessary and that may discourage" current licensees from advancing their skills, and that it would "promote more efficient use" of current Amateur Radio spectrum. The FCC cited changes in Article 25 of the international Radio Regulations adopted at World Radiocommunication Conference 2003 as the primary reason to go forward with eliminating Morse code as an Amateur Radio licensing requirement in the future. Among other changes, WRC-03 deleted the Morse testing requirement for amateur applicants seeking HF privileges, leaving it up to individual countries to determine whether or not they want to mandate Morse testing. Several countries already have dropped their Morse requirements. ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, said he was not surprised that the FCC proposed altogether scrapping the Morse code requirement. The League and others had called for retaining the 5 WPM requirement only for Amateur Extra class applicants. Sumner expressed dismay, however, that the FCC turned away proposals from the League and other petitioners to create a new entry-level Amateur Radio license class. "We're disappointed that the Commission prefers to deny an opportunity to give Amateur Radio the restructuring it needs for the 21st century," he said. "It appears that the Commission is taking the easy road, but the easy road is seldom the right road." Sumner said ARRL officials and the Board of Directors would closely study the 30-page NPRM and plan to comment further after they've had the opportunity to consider the Commission's stated rationales for its proposals. In 2004, the ARRL filed a Petition for Rule Making asking the FCC to amend Part 97 to complete the Amateur Service restructuring begun in 1999 but "left unfinished." The League called on the FCC to create a new entry-level license, reduce the number of actual license classes to three and drop the Morse code testing requirement for all classes except for Amateur Extra. Among other recommendations, the League asked the FCC to automatically upgrade Technician licensees to General and Advanced licensees to Amateur Extra. In this week's NPRM, the FCC said it was not persuaded such automatic upgrades were in the public interest. The FCC said it did not believe a new entry-level license class was warranted because current Novice and Tech Plus licensees already can easily upgrade to General. "We also note that, if our proposal to eliminate telegraphy testing in the amateur service is adopted," the FCC continued, "a person who is not a licensee will be able to qualify for a General Class operator license by passing two written examinations, and that a person who is a Technician Class licensee will be able to qualify for a General Class operator license by passing one written examination." The FCC said it does not believe either path to be unreasonable. The FCC also said that it's already addressed some of the other issues petitioners raised in its "Phone Band Expansion" (or "Omnibus") NPRM in WT Docket 04-140. In that proceeding, the Commission proposed to go along with the ARRL's Novice refarming proposal aimed at reallocating the current Novice/Tech Plus subbands to provide additional phone spectrum. Under the plan, Novice/Tech Plus licensees would be granted CW privileges in the current General CW subbands. A 60-day period for members of the public to comment on the FCC's NPRM in WT 05-235 will begin once the NPRM appears in the Federal Register. Reply comments will be due within 75 days of the NPRM's publication in the Federal Register. From - Thu Jul 28 09:42:11 EDT 2005 Article: 215761 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Reply-To: "Thierry" <-> From: "Thierry" <-> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna References: Subject: Re: Vertical (Butternut, Titan) vs Carolina Windom Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:10:35 +0200 Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 NNTP-Posting-Host: tvsurf-habscht1-134.pt.lu Message-ID: <42e8bd2e$1@news.vo.lu> X-Trace: news.vo.lu 1122549038 213.166.42.134 (28 Jul 2005 13:10:38 +0200) Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.vo.lu!not-for-mail Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215761 "Joe Guthart" wrote in message news:iuGdneiScZRXRHrfRVn-3A@comcast.com... I'm starting to explore getting a new antenna for HF ... thus far the options that I've looked at are a vertical ground mount with a counterpoise kit (can't really do radials in my yard). The models that have come up often are the Butternut HF9V and the Gap Titan. Both seem similar. The Butternut's are more expensive and the Gap Titan seems to have good reviews and then has a few folks who say it's worthless. Alternatively, I've looked at a horizontal such as a Carolina Windom. The problem I have with this is that I only have one large tree to tie off to. To do a horizontal right, I would have to have to use a mast for the other end. I've also heard and seen several people that have used some of the break apart masts to do this and they have ended up with a broken mast. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks. --- Hi Joe, I worked with a Hi-Gain vertical placed 10m high for Dxing and a G5RV and carolina windom (30-40m long) at 100W SSB. Based on my exprience, as it, the advantage goes definetly to the vertical due to its omnidirectional pattern (even placed at ground level with radials). Dipoles display a leaf radiation pattern which is a plus vs. the vertical but there are set in specific directions and elevations which is not always interesting if you want to reach a specific DX zone. In my case for example the windom was tied NE-SW in ON so I had difficulties to work USA over the eastern coast, even canada, middle east, africa and farer. Of course, from time to time I reached XE, PY, YB at eve and even VK on mornings but it was sometimes hard (mainly due to kW-users !!). The vertical segment of the OCF is a plus vs. e.g. a G5RV as it emits at 360°, adding some lobes in troughs of the OCF radiation pattern. Thus gobally, I have found the OCF offering almost an omnidirectional pattern http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/Radio/ant-carolina-windom-radiation-pattern. gif and working better than my multiband dipole but not as good as the 1/4L vertical. Now if you can rotate your dipole or OCF, I would use it instead of the vertical. 73 Thierry, ON4SKY http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm Article: 215896 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42ea9f5f_1@x-privat.org> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:12:41 GMT NunYa Bidness wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:13:59 +0100, "Polymath" > Gave us: > > >>sdrawkcab is backwards spelt backwards! > > > A complete idiot, you are. No he's not, there's LOADS of bits missing. -- ;-) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. http://turner-smith.co.uk Article: 215897 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42ea9f5e$1_1@x-privat.org> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:15:08 GMT Spike wrote: > > Truly it can be said that of this week's outbursts > 'Les sanglots longs Des violons Du Grand Poseur > Blessent mon coeur D'une langueur Monotone' > > from > Aero Spike Wot? That's foreign innit? Bleedin' Frogs! -- ;-) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. http://turner-smith.co.uk Article: 215898 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Polymath" References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42ea9f5e$1_1@x-privat.org> <6011e$42eabe74$97d55eb8$10677@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:07:48 +0100 Message-ID: <42eb5368$3_1@x-privat.org> Mrs.Nugatory has used the pseudonym, "Zolaist" in the past. Perhaps that is an indicator of her attention-seeking behaviour in this NG? "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:6011e$42eabe74$97d55eb8$10677@ALLTEL.NET... > Sounds like some kind of Emile Zola nonsense... >> >> "Spike" wrote in message >> news:j2ele19c9pj4q90m79givgf70qa8tvhkt7@4ax.com... >> > Truly it can be said that of this week's outbursts >> > 'Les sanglots longs Des violons Du Grand Poseur >> > Blessent mon coeur D'une langueur Monotone' Article: 215899 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Polymath" References: <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com> <15sie19i74stkcrnn82q2hebi00knro9a3@4ax.com> <11eitaaov49tnbc@corp.supernews.com> <2vgGe.352$226.6590609@news.sisna.com> <1cb$42eaad49$97d55eb8$5804@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:17:34 +0100 Message-ID: <42eb5369$1_1@x-privat.org> You sent me scurrying to my dictionary! A very "profande" observation of yours, if I may be so bold? "Walt Davidson" wrote in message news:o0ime19ephs88grtosb5eoar33saon9nfo@4ax.com... > > "Profanities" are only profane if you are religious, anyway ... and a > lot of people nowadays are not. Article: 215900 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 06:54:17 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... References: <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <9ZGdnVSjCrEI4HffRVn-1A@comcast.com> <7qdle19oqbkdc6d3q0uf9v11n468o638od@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42eb6b78$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> John Smith wrote: > I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to > "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that > someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can > tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! How many oscillators are there if you include quantum oscillators? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215901 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 06:57:57 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <1122691711.436529.138360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8747-42EB047A-585@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <42eb6c54$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Richard Harrison wrote: > Jim Kelley wrote: > "That`s because power doesn`t propagate, and hasten to add - neither do > Poynting vectors." > > Words are not objects. They merely represent objects. We use > abstractions for brevity and clarity. Even the best say: "--the Poynting > vector or power density (watts per square meter)." See Kraus` 3rd > edition of "Antennas" page 73, under "Power Patterns". If we send a pulse of energy down a transmission line, one wonders where the power in the pulse is if not in the pulse. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215902 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:18:29 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <945le1l5286t8gbvltf2p3sqkla99ecjeh@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42eb7124$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Richard Clark wrote: > And true for ALL accumulated reflections there after. Reflections do > not add any energy to the cup when the first interface is draining it > more quickly. If the first interface is a Z0-match, it is not "draining it" at all. That's what you are missing. The examples have been for matched systems. If you change your medium 3 to an index of refraction of 4.0 instead of 4.04, your example is *perfectly matched* and the first interface is NOT draining the system because all reflections are canceled. 100% of the source power is being delivered through the first interface because of that wave cancellation. At that point it is being joined by the reflected power so the forward power in the second medium is greater than the source power. In the second medium, forward power equals source power plus reflected power. In your example, source power is one watt, forward power in the second medium is 1.125 watt, and reflected power in the second medium is 0.125 watt. > My analysis allowed ALL of the energy in the reflection from the > second interface ( 0.098X) to combine with the first reflection > (0.11X). This total superposition ... Power cannot be superposed. If you are going to deal with power, you need to use the interference equations for power calculations. Or alternately, convert the powers to voltages, superpose the voltages, and then calculate the power from the superposed voltage. That's what most RF engineers do and it works well. > As an optical engineer, I've dealt with the harsh reality of this myth > of total reflection cancellation. Since you don't understand the physics, it is no wonder that you failed to accomplish total reflection cancellation. And total reflection cancellation is easier to accomplish in a transmission line than it is with light in air. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215903 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Ferrell Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Message-ID: <6nume1tmd4kt669nnc097c8qmqe0hc4t47@4ax.com> References: <11el26tijlkv7e9@corp.supernews.com> <11elvvom9qac3b5@corp.supernews.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:10:26 GMT He may have used a pseudonym. He did prefer to write for CQ, they paid a little bit where QST did (does?) not. I have been out of touch with Bill since leaving the Central Ohio area. As I recall, after he had one such artical published he received quite a few letters from people who took it seriously. de W8CCW On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:20:08 -0700, Roy Lewallen wrote: >John Ferrell wrote: >> I agree that it was an April issue and I think my old friend W8DMR >> (Bill) may have written it. However, I was thinking it more in the mid >> 60's. >> >> de W8CCW > >My guess as to the date could easily be that far off. But if your friend >wrote it for QST or HR, he used a pseudonym -- I don't see his call or >name in the inclusive indexes of either magazine. > >It must have been in CQ or 73. I can still recall the diagram, showing >the buried antenna and the dotted "image" above ground. > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 215904 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Ferrell Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Message-ID: References: <2DwGe.90$Va1.2301981@news.sisna.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:13:08 GMT That is great! I will use that at the next Lios Club meeting and aso in my church newsletter... de W8CCW On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:01:11 -0400, "Hal Rosser" wrote: >My brother quit the power company when they were switching to "underground >utilities" - he got tired of burying those telephone poles so deep! And I >had to give up chicken farming because the county extension agent said I was >planting them too deep - I think I must have been planting them too near the >underground power lines. > > >"John Smith" wrote in message >news:2DwGe.90$Va1.2301981@news.sisna.com... >> Reg: >> >> I can't even dream of burying a perfectly good, working, beautiful, sleek >> antenna! >> >> ... I shall refrain from burying any antenna, before its' time ... >> >> John > Article: 215905 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <11el91mco1a7u6c@corp.supernews.com> <11elmqalhrhfl32@corp.supernews.com> <82715$42eae110$97d55eb8$1590@ALLTEL.NET> <11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:44:53 -0400 Message-ID: <9ac$42eb929b$97d55eb8$31586@ALLTEL.NET> Back in the day, we received traffic from the station in Jim Creek while submerged. They used a 13 mile array strung between 2 mountains. IIRC it was on 18KC. CW only as any frequency shift would have put the finals out of resonance. Much better methods today that remain classified. I know we could receive it when submerged in the Red Sea. "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message news:11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com... > I believe this method is still being used for communications to > submarines. It depends heavily on the very great skin depth and > relatively low attenuation in sea water at the VLF wavelengths used. > > The buried antennas I was referring to operate, as far as I know, with > normal field propagation through the air, not through the ground. > > So communication through the ground or even salt water is practical at > low frequencies. High frequency is another matter, though. But that > doesn't preclude using buried antennas for sky wave propagation. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 215906 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <1122330238.454905.75640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <9ZGdnVSjCrEI4HffRVn-1A@comcast.com> <7qdle19oqbkdc6d3q0uf9v11n468o638od@4ax.com> <42eb6b78$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:57:56 -0700 Cecil: Good point, it is going on in there... I think of 'em more as "quantum white noise generators." John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:42eb6b78$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > John Smith wrote: >> I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to >> "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that >> someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can >> tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! > > How many oscillators are there if you include quantum oscillators? :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215907 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: <7KNGe.217$QC4.5984354@news.sisna.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:16:59 -0700 Spike: We construct our messages on machines which were built to do anything. If you have the correct hardware/software/knowledge you can have a "virtual world" where all is exactly as you would like. Still the computer illiterate scream for others to do it for them, clip the messages, format, etc... Get a newsreader which does it the way you would like. Or, write a plug-in to the current newsreader you are using which will do it the way you like (others, if the problem is a real one, may have already written one for you--search the net.) No, there are no mothers here to take care of you, this in not like CW, it is not required you read these posts.... ... get a clue, the format of newsgroups has changed, adapt or die ... John "Spike" wrote in message news:s08me15iree48sp1m0p3uhbjtiicanbub9@4ax.com... > kashe@sonic.net wrote: > >>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:28:46 +0100, Spike >> wrote: >> >>>Ed Price wrote: >>> >>>>Obviously, if you don't take the >>>>time to distill the OP's comments, then you bury your reply under his >>>>verbiage. Perhaps one of the best arguments for editing is that you have to >>>>think about what's important in the previous post. That allows you to focus >>>>your reply. >>> >>>What an excellent philosophy. >>> >>>Perhaps the top-posters and non-editors are merely guilty of lack of >>>focus and an ability to think. >>> >> >>Or are just unwilling to trace over ground already many-times plowed. > > Or ploughed. > > One thing that top-posters fail to recognise is that not all ng users > set their readers to order posts by thread. It is quite possible, with > a suitable newsreader, to order posts by time and date, rather than > subject. > > Unfortunately, those who merely bang the Reply key to top-post their > answer frequently have the point to which they are replying way off > the bottom of the screen, which it is not immediately obvious without > scrolling down. > > Top-posting also encorages the lazy or incompetent to avoid properly > trimming their posts. > > There are even those who used to trim and bottom-post who now top-post > exclusively, but who quote the RFC as if it is some religious mantra > in some form of self-justification. > > from > Aero Spike Article: 215908 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Ed Price" References: <11el91mco1a7u6c@corp.supernews.com> <11elmqalhrhfl32@corp.supernews.com> <82715$42eae110$97d55eb8$1590@ALLTEL.NET> <11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com> <9ac$42eb929b$97d55eb8$31586@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:38:31 -0700 "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message news:9ac$42eb929b$97d55eb8$31586@ALLTEL.NET... > Back in the day, we received traffic from the station in Jim Creek while > submerged. They used a 13 mile array strung between 2 mountains. IIRC it > was > on 18KC. CW only as any frequency shift would have put the finals out of > resonance. Much better methods today that remain classified. > > I know we could receive it when submerged in the Red Sea. > > "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message > news:11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com... >> I believe this method is still being used for communications to >> submarines. It depends heavily on the very great skin depth and >> relatively low attenuation in sea water at the VLF wavelengths used. >> >> The buried antennas I was referring to operate, as far as I know, with >> normal field propagation through the air, not through the ground. >> >> So communication through the ground or even salt water is practical at >> low frequencies. High frequency is another matter, though. But that >> doesn't preclude using buried antennas for sky wave propagation. >> >> Roy Lewallen, W7EL > > Did the Navy ever deploy the Long-Range Autonomous Homing Bottle? -- Ed WB6WSN El Cajon, CA USA Article: 215909 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:00:46 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1122691711.436529.138360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8747-42EB047A-585@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Richard Harrison wrote: > Jim Kelley wrote: > "That`s because power doesn`t propagate, and hasten to add - neither do > Poynting vectors." > > Words are not objects. They merely represent objects. We use > abstractions for brevity and clarity. Even the best say: "--the Poynting > vector or power density (watts per square meter)." See Kraus` 3rd > edition of "Antennas" page 73, under "Power Patterns". So I guess that must be where he talks about power and Poynting vectors that pretend to be electromagnetic fields and propagate along waveguides? 73, ac6xg Article: 215910 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:08:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <945le1l5286t8gbvltf2p3sqkla99ecjeh@4ax.com> Richard Clark wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:58:29 -0700, Jim Kelley > wrote: > >>>It is quite evident that through the actions of the first interface, >>>that there is less energy incident upon the second interface. >>>Further, given that both interfaces operate with identical reflective >>>and transmissive properties, it follows the second interface could not >>>reflect enough to totally negate the reflections of the first. >> >>True for any one reflection. > > > Hi Jim, > > And true for ALL accumulated reflections there after. Reflections do > not add any energy to the cup when the first interface is draining it > more quickly. > Yes, that was my point. You seemed to have momentarily overlooked that detail. > My analysis allowed ALL of the energy in the reflection from the > second interface ( 0.098X) to combine with the first reflection > (0.11X). Single (first) reflection only. > This total superposition was both more than generous, and at > the same time very unlikely; and yet with this generous allowance > there is still excess reflection from the first interface. Your generosity is hardly the issue. Previously reflections are more to the point. > Hence for > something less than total superposition of ALL energies, it hardly > bodes a better yield in total cancellation - the energy just isn't > there in the first place. 0.098X <> 0.11X is the simple economics of > the balance. Sounds good. It's wrong, but the sound of it is good nevertheless. > As an optical engineer, I've dealt with the harsh reality of this myth > of total reflection cancellation. Failure can tend to make some people bitter. ;-) > Basically these claims are for first year students where demanding too > much inquiry would push them into switching majors to Business school. > Simple optics with simple, ordinary glasses exhibit quite useful > results, but they do not embody a proof. To anyone following the math > of my presentation, it is quite obvious what WOULD tend towards a more > complete cancellation - and such a subtle shift in the formula > diverges only slightly from the choir book hymn. It's not that hard > when the interface ratios drive the answer. Another good sounding thing. 73, ac6xg Article: 215911 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:11:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <11el36bd8foq6e2@corp.supernews.com> <42eada64$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Roy Lewallen wrote: > >> Since you say that power superposes, we should expect power waves to >> add and cancel just like voltage waves. > > > Strawman Alert!!! Richard H. did NOT say power superposes. > It is obvious that what he was disagreeing with was the > statement: "You CANNOT ... even talk about the "power" > of various reflections in the same media." I think you should be allowed to talk about whatever you want, Cecil. That sort of thing can be highly therapeutic. ;-) 73, ac6xg Article: 215912 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <1122691711.436529.138360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> W5DXP wrote: > Why don't you visit your local power company, call a meeting of their > engineers, and inform them that there is no power flowing in their > transmission lines? :-) Are you talking about the guys with the clipboards, or the guys with the hard hats? 73, ac6xg Article: 215913 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sonny Hood Subject: Rohn 25G & Stuff FS Message-ID: <8p0oe1hgvml61igimp6rltsdqb1q134hmk@4ax.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:51:33 -0400 1. Rohn 25G tower, 89 feet consisting of one (1) top section with the two inch tube, seven (7) each ten (10) foot sections plus a nine (9) foot section where it was cut out of the roof pitch box. The tower is sound, no freeze cracks or blow outs. There is rust on about 30% of the tower. For PICK UP in Chesapeake, Virginia, along Rt. 17 just below Portsmouth. $180.00 2. One Rohn 25G Anti Twist Guy Clamp, has the three 18 inch solid pieces that the guy wire attaches to. Also for PICK UP in Chesapeake, Va. $10.00 ALL OF THE ABOVE can be picked up for $185.00 3. Commercial Made Heavy Duty 8 element Vertical Beam converted to 440 MHz, average SWR across 70 centimeter band is below 1.3: 1 $75 or Best Offer 4. Ninety nine (99) feet of Belden 9913 Coax w/ PL-259s (USED) $25.00 5. Three (3) each eight (8) foot Heavy Duty Screw Anchors(USED) $30.00 Some of these Items will be brought to the Berryville Virginia Hamfest, for a slight increase in the going price. I will sell items for quoted price if money sent before Berryville trip. Gas ain't Cheap! Article: 215914 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:58:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11el91mco1a7u6c@corp.supernews.com> <11elmqalhrhfl32@corp.supernews.com> <82715$42eae110$97d55eb8$1590@ALLTEL.NET> <11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com> Roy. as you know, radio propagation through the ground follows exactly the same laws as propagation through anything else. All is governed by the resistivity, permeability and permittivity of the medium, at a partcular frequency, and the geometry of the interfaces between different mediums. The problem of finding solutions to paricular problems lies only in entering input data into a general purpose, number crunching computer program, which I'm sure versions of it already exist. Article: 215915 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <11edj0t1or8jq5a@corp.supernews.com> <9ZGdnVSjCrEI4HffRVn-1A@comcast.com> <7qdle19oqbkdc6d3q0uf9v11n468o638od@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Amateur question pools and answers... Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:45:40 -0700 Wes: All of that exists on just a single chip these days, it is possible to have an osc chip which is usable from 1Mhz-to-1Ghz and puts out an acceptable sine... ... or so my son informs me. I took his word for it... the world has began to pass me by :( John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message news:g51oe1hamen55m6keupsd9t0b0arubkv6m@4ax.com... > On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:04:13 -0700, "John Smith" > wrote: > >>Wes: >> >>I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to >>"millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that >>someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can >>tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! >> >>Here is a mess of stuff on clocks, osc's which are generally used in >>digital equip these days (and this is stuff I am used to, >>a decade old or better technology, probably two decades!): > > A mess indeed. > >>... it should be apparent mr. pierce is not >>here in (at least most) of this material: > > > Well, he's here: > > http://www.mtron.com/pdf/eng_notes.pdf > > (See Figure 8 and associated text.) > > http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn30.pdf > > http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn31.pdf > > > >>Simple logic gate oscillator: >>http://www.it.lth.se/digp/PDF_files/oscillators.pdf > > Thanks for making my point! "A better oscillator using inverter gates > is given in Figure 2." (This is a Pierce.) > >> >>Design of op amp oscillators: >>http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt164/slyt164.pdf > > Does not apply. Earlier I said, "All sine wave oscillators, LC or > crystal, are basically the same circuit with the only variable being > the location of the rf common point." > > These are not LC or crystal oscillators. The only place you might > find one of these in a modern radio is in the sidetone oscillator. > >> >>CMOS oscillator: >>http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/circuits/F_ASCII_Schem.html#ASCIISCHEM_004 > > Tinker Toy >> >>Clock divider: >>http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/circuits/clockdiv.txt > > Not an oscillator. You too busy writing to actually look at your > references? >> >>clock doubler: >>http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/circuits/clockdoubler.html > > Op cit. >> >>square wave to sine converter: >>http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/circuits/square2sine.txt > > Op cit. >> >>pdf on digital oscillators: >>http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/courses/phys405/fall04/P405_Labs/Lab2_TTL_Logic/Lab2_TTL_Logic.pdf > > This is a college course? >> >>Computer project, using 7404 as a clock: >>https://www.cs.tcd.ie/Jeremy.Jones/3d2/3d2project.htm > > Clearly, you didn't read this one. > Article: 215916 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Underground Antenna Experiments on 160 meters. Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:26:11 -0700 Message-ID: <11eo6l7rr3mab93@corp.supernews.com> References: <11el91mco1a7u6c@corp.supernews.com> <11elmqalhrhfl32@corp.supernews.com> <82715$42eae110$97d55eb8$1590@ALLTEL.NET> <11elvqvgjrhpk5c@corp.supernews.com> Reg Edwards wrote: > Roy. as you know, radio propagation through the ground follows exactly > the same laws as propagation through anything else. Sure. The only real differences among salt water, dirt, and air are the loss -- which is a big difference -- and propagation velocity. > All is governed by the resistivity, permeability and permittivity of > the medium, at a partcular frequency, and the geometry of the > interfaces between different mediums. > > The problem of finding solutions to paricular problems lies only in > entering input data into a general purpose, number crunching computer > program, which I'm sure versions of it already exist. NEC-4 can handle antennas and propagation in two media of infinite extent separated by an infinite plane boundary. Neither one has to be air. While this doesn't imitate some real situations very well, it can produce some good insights into propagation and the performance of antennas embedded in a medium other than air. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 215917 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:20:05 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <1122691711.436529.138360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <42ec3664$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> Jim Kelley wrote: > W5DXP wrote: >> Why don't you visit your local power company, call a meeting of their >> engineers, and inform them that there is no power flowing in their >> transmission lines? :-) > > Are you talking about the guys with the clipboards, or the guys with the > hard hats? I've seen power engineers with clipboards and hardhats. Their title is "Power Engineer". What will they think when you tell them that power generators don't generate power, power transmission lines don't transfer power, and power meters don't meter power? They may all end up in a white coat because of you. The rest of the world simply does not share your definition of "power". Did you see my question? If the power associated with an EM pulse is not in the pulse, where is it? A power meter registers power during the pulse but nothing before and after the pulse. The power was there during the pulse. Where was it before the pulse arrived? Where did it go after the pulse left? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215918 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:42:28 -0500 From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer References: <87wtnd783u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> <18310-42EA78A9-409@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <945le1l5286t8gbvltf2p3sqkla99ecjeh@4ax.com> <39pne1d7a5c8nvl41udc7866snbbicsib3@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42ec3ba3$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> > As the total energy returning from the second interface is 0.098X, not > 0.11X, ... The total energy returning from the second interface is 0.125 watts. Your solution is incorrect. Why don't you take a poll to see who agrees with you? > Even if an infinite summation of ALL reflections kept any energy from > transiting the second interface (a generous allowance not likely to be > observed anywhere), then it cannot exceed what energy was initially > introduced into the system. It cannot exceed the energy. It can certainly exceed the steady-state source power (joules/sec) and it does. Some energy is sourced during the transient stage that does not reach the load. It is stored in the second medium as standing waves. The forward power in the first medium is one watt with no reflections. The forward power in the second medium is 1.125 watts. The reflected power in the second medium is 0.125 watts. The forward power in the third medium is one watt with no reflections. Have you never seen the forward power in a transmission line exceed the source power? If the system is Z0-matched and the SWR on a 1/4WL transformer is 5.83:1, the steady-state forward power on the 1/4WL transformer is *double* the steady-state source power. > Either way, "total cancellation" is not total. In your n=1,2,4 example, reflected wave cancellation is total in medium 1 (assuming a lossless system). If n2=sqrt(n1*n3), the reflected wave cancellation is total. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Article: 215919 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John Smith" References: <3605e1l2erm97mr4qckcvqu1rt7u6ki253@4ax.com> <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e3a212$1_2@x-privat.org> <%oQEe.45$iJ4.693284@news.sisna.com> <1lydofhge3h1x.9zkca52e5x26.dlg@40tude.net> Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:30:17 -0700 RA: It starts out: First they want bottom posting... Next they want editing... Next NO typos... Next you have to agree with them... Next you have to read it for them... ... At some point, Nancy Regan pops in and restores sanity, by recommending, "Just say NO!" John "Radio Active" wrote in message news:1lydofhge3h1x.9zkca52e5x26.dlg@40tude.net... > On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:28:09 GMT, NunYa Bidness wrote: > >> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:41:09 -0700, "John Smith" >> Gave us: >> >>>Some people have been sold the line that there is something leet about >>>bottom posting--obviously they haven't a clue... but even think they >>>fool others! >> >> Your an utter idiot. > > His utter idiot what? Article: 215920 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: The Extreme Failure of Poor Concepts in Discussing Thin Layer Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:52:19 -0500 Message-ID: <11772-42ED3A03-245@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net> References: <8747-42EB047A-585@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Jim Kelley wrote: "That`s because power doesn`t propagate, I hasten to add - neither do Poynting vectors.: Some world-class experts disagree with Jim. Here is a sample quotation using the words "power flow". >From E.M. Purcell writing about "Antenna Gain and Receiving Cross Section" on page 19 of "Radar System Engineering" edited by Louis M. Ridenour: "If the transmitting antenna were to radiate energy isotropically-that is, uniformly in all directions-the power flow through unit area at a distance R, from the antenna could be found by dividing P, the total radiated power, by 4piRsquared." Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 215921 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:31:32 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!) References: <9szEe.519$S73.6624348@news.sisna.com> <42e6b3b8_3@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3uaee1ppc02vjeljq8ldk2qd2uil63l6ps@4ax.com> <15sie19i74stkcrnn82q2hebi00knro9a3@4ax.com> Message-ID: <42ed5f54$0$32198$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Well, since we're being blunt, you can stick it where the sun don't shine. I've been on the internet since before it was the commonly available, and I think bottom posting is foolish, and wastes time. And I am man enough to admit who I am. Wimp. tom K0TAR NunYa Bidness wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:34:31 GMT, Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI > Gave us: > > >>NunYa Bidness wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:06:46 -0400, "David.Shrader" >>> Gave us: >>> >>> >>> >>>>In the words of that greatest american philosopher: "De Ja Vous, all >>>>over again" --- Y. Berra >>>> >>>>It's time to let this issue die. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Top posting idiots BOTH of you! >> >>One, and possibly the only good thing about top posting is that it >>pisses you off. > > > Who said that I was pissed? I am merely declaring those retards > that do top post what exactly they are... fucking abject idiots. > Try again. Article: 215922 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" References: <1122867299.665025.44850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Pi network question Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:55:08 -0400 Message-ID: <4e728$42edab6f$438df2d2$23603@ALLTEL.NET> Arn't you going around your hindparts to get to your elbow? Connect an MFJ259B or similar and measure at the coax. Once these valuses are measured at the frequency of interest, you can determine from the tuners specs if you will be able to achieve a match. If you can already achieve a match isn't determining the value simply a neat mental exercise? wrote in message news:1122867299.665025.44850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Hi Group, > > I have a pi-network, or at least I believe it is a pi-network in my > antenna tuner. It has two caps to ground and one in series inductor. > > If I tune my SWR for 1:1 and go back and measure each value of the > capacitors and inductor, is there a equation or computer program I can > use these measured values to obtain my complex impedance at the input > of the coax cable? > > de KJ4UO >