Article: 216968 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Walter Maxwell <walt@w2du.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Message-ID: <306uh1d2qjepk6eqt17mts5scoirb0e7sv@4ax.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <ok5uh19f3kpjl75ne83johikoo26pffu3u@4ax.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:41:00 -0400

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:39:28 -0700, Dan Richardson <> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:41:33 -0400, Walter Maxwell <walt@w2du.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Sorry to disagree, Reg, but it appears you're overlooking an important
>>point--the difference between the efficiency of the radiating system
>>itself, versus the efficiency of the ground area external to the
>>radiating system.
>
>Walter, my friend, you're beating a dead horse. It would appear that
>Reg's mind is made up and no amount factual proof is going to change
>it.
>
>Had BL&E been Englishmen I sure things would be different.<G>
>
>73,
>Danny, K6MHE
>
Good point, Danny, how true.

Walt


Article: 216969 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Dummy Load experience?
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
From: dougmc@frenzy.com (Doug McLaren)
Message-ID: <HYETe.229316$0f.192109@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:56:07 GMT

In article <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
CD <mr.whatever@gmail.com> wrote:

| My friend tried using a dummy load on a 300W transmitter. He was only
| running it for a few mins at the VHF range, but he was picking up a
| signal 100 ft away. Is that typical?

Probably

| I don't know much about dummy loads, but I think that 100ft is just a
| tad bit too far, no?

There is the guy who got a Worked all Continents using only a light
bulb as his antenna.  (And basically it's just a dummy load, though
the resistance varies and so it doesn't make a very good dummy load,
though it shouldn't make a better antenna than a good dummy load.  Was
that sentence long enough?)

The leakage of your rig and the feed lines is signifigant.  And of
course, the dummy load itself will radiate a little bit too.  You may
have a hard time getting a WAC, but certainly the signal is there and
can be picked up by those close.  It's also why it's a good idea to ID
yourself and such even when transmitting into a dummy load.

-- 
Doug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com, AD5RH
In the valley of the blind, the Venetian is king.


Article: 216970 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Ron Murray" <rmurray32@cox.net>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Message-ID: <%_ETe.5719$rj.4059@lakeread07>
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:58:25 -0400

| Sorry to disagree, Reg, but it appears you're overlooking an 
important
| point--the difference between the efficiency of the radiating system
| itself, versus the efficiency of the ground area external to the
| radiating system.
|
| BL&E shows that when 90 - 120 (actually 113) radials of 0,4 w/l form
| the ground system for a 1/4 wl radiator, the efficiency is 98.7%
| efficient, REGARDLESS OF THE SOIL RESISTIVITY UNDER THE RADIALS. 
This
| is shown by obtaining the field strength of 192 mv/meter at 1 mile 
for
| 1000 watts delivered to the antenna under the conditions described
| above, compared to 194.5 mv/meter with a perfect ground having an
| efficiency of 100%
|
| It is only the soil resistivity of the ground external to the radial
| system that determines the field stength external to the radial
| system. Consequently, the soil resistivity (or conductivity, if you
| like) is significant only in the areas external to the radial 
system.
|
| Walt, W2DU

Walt,

What if the ground outside the radial system was comprised of 30-1000 
feet of sand and rock overlying any conductive soil below? Would we 
then be able to measure 192 mv/meter at one mile with our 113 radials 
of 0.4 w/l?

Ron, WA4IWN 




Article: 216971 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on building a 6 meter vertical antenna
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:26:34 -0500
Message-ID: <11hu8mj63a5e11c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126100684.670634.172990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

pinpassion wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> 
> I'm building my first 6 meter vertical antenna
> for repeater use. I already have a 6 meter beam
> for SSB DX use. (Cushcraft 5 element)
> 
> I'm using the plans from G3JVL for a 5/8 wave
> aluminum antenna. I have the tubing from Texas
> Towers (extruded aluminum) designed to fit in
> to each other, so this should make a perfect
> antenna when I get it cut to size. For those
> not familiar with the G3JVL antenna, here is
> a link:
> 
> http://www.hamuniverse.com/6metervertical.html
> 
> The advice I need is how should I protect the
> antenna prior to putting it on the roof? Is there
> a spray I should use to resist rust, or something
> I should use when I connect the sections to help
> maintain a good connection and prevent oxidation?
> I suppose this might have the added benefit of making
> the antenna easier to disassemble.
> 
> I was planning on using stainless hardware to assemble
> the sections. I was initially thinking of using a
> stainless hose clamp, but I was advised to drill a hole
> through the sections and use a bolt and nut as that is
> more reliable.
> 
> This is my fist shot at a homebrew, so any advice is
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike N2QAC
> 
Mike;

The first advice to protect your new antenna prior to mounting it is to 
insure that nothing is allowed to fall on or against it while it is in 
your shop. This is very detrimental to the final look of the antenna. 
;^).  Seriously though being made of aluminum it will not rust. It will 
lightly oxidize but this is a natural action as aluminum is very 
reactive with oxygen. If you are in a salty environment you might 
lightly spay paint the aluminum with either a color paint or a clear 
finish otherwise you really do not have to worry about the metal. Just 
be sure that your paint does not have any metal in it.
One thing you might want to consider is coating the joints between two 
pieces of metal with a conductive grease. You should be able to find 
that at a Radio Shack or other electrical supply house. Using a nut and 
bolt to hold sections of tubing together is a very good idea, just be 
careful when tightening the nut not to crush the tubing.

Good luck;

Dave WD9BDZ


Article: 216972 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com>
Subject: Re: Dummy Load experience?
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:36:17 -0500
Message-ID: <11hu98m3q79vr61@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <HYETe.229316$0f.192109@tornado.texas.rr.com>

Doug McLaren wrote:

> In article <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> CD <mr.whatever@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> | My friend tried using a dummy load on a 300W transmitter. He was only
> | running it for a few mins at the VHF range, but he was picking up a
> | signal 100 ft away. Is that typical?
> 
> Probably
> 
> | I don't know much about dummy loads, but I think that 100ft is just a
> | tad bit too far, no?
> 
> There is the guy who got a Worked all Continents using only a light
> bulb as his antenna.  (And basically it's just a dummy load, though
> the resistance varies and so it doesn't make a very good dummy load,
> though it shouldn't make a better antenna than a good dummy load.  Was
> that sentence long enough?)
> 
> The leakage of your rig and the feed lines is signifigant.  And of
> course, the dummy load itself will radiate a little bit too.  You may
> have a hard time getting a WAC, but certainly the signal is there and
> can be picked up by those close.  It's also why it's a good idea to ID
> yourself and such even when transmitting into a dummy load.
> 

If I might insert my comments. I whole heartedly agree with the other 
responses. A dummy load will radiate and using light bulbs as a dummy 
load will work.

However, they will radiate emf as well as light. One of my mother's 
cousins, Arnold W2OVP SK, received his first ham license on something 
like 8DEC1941, if you are a student of history you know what happened 
next. Radio Silence until after August 1945. Anyway one night he was 
practicing his CW into a bank of light bulbs at his home in Buffalo, NY. 
He received a phone call from one of his friends on the other side of 
town that his code sounded good.  Suffice it to say that he shutdown and 
  did not do that again. So yes a dummy load will radiate, just not very 
efficiently.

Dave WD9BDZ


Article: 216973 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:13:44 -0700
Message-ID: <11huevcqtndtr30@corp.supernews.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <431E4F4A.2050804@comcast.net>

dansawyeror wrote:
> All,
> 
> A fundamental basic question, which is the primary purpose of radials:
> 
> 1. is it to create a ground, that is a as close as possible to zero ohm 
> virtual reference for the 'real' vertical half of the dipole?

There is no such thing as "creating a ground". As for a "virtual 
reference", you can declare any point on any conductor a "reference" and 
for that matter "ground" that you wish.

> 2. Or are they to create a real resonant half of a dipole?

There's no need to try to make a dipole. If the radials are on or very 
near the ground, their sole purpose is to reduce the amount of loss due 
to current returning to the base of the antenna. The current entering 
the antenna at the base equals the current flowing into the source 
through the ground. This ground current results in I^2 * R loss; radials 
reduce the R and therefore the loss.

In the case of a "ground plane" antenna with highly elevated radials, 
the radials provide a path for the base current to flow (again, current 
out of the source -- into the antenna -- has to equal the current into 
it -- from the radials). Because of the physical configuration, it's 
sometimes more convenient to build an antenna this way instead of making 
a dipole. The radials radiate very little, and the vertical section 
radiates twice as much per unit length as a dipole, resulting in the 
same overall gain and pattern.

> If it is the first then what does the 'efficiency' curve look like for a 
> shortened, loaded, vertical? That is if the vertical element is loaded 
> to resonate at 1/5 of a half wave length what does the ground resistance 
> profile look like for 120 radials at various lengths of 1/20 wave, 1/10 
> wave and 1/5 wave?

The answer to this depends on the ground conductivity and frequency. But 
the radiation resistance of the shortened antenna will be less than that 
of a full-height one. Therefore, if the ground resistance is fixed and 
determined by the ground system (not completely true -- it does depend 
some on the antenna height -- but close enough for discussion), the 
efficiency of the short antenna will be less than for a full-height one. 
I recommend finding and reading "The W2FMI Ground-Mounted Short 
Vertical", by Jerry Sevick, W2FMI in March 1973 QST. He built several 
antennas very much like you describe and made extensive measurements.

> 
> The question I am really driving at is if mesh is layed down at 100% 
> coverage about what fraction of a wave length needs to be covered to 
> create a 2.5, 5, and 10 ohm equivalent ground for the vertical above?

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that one right off the bat. It could 
be determined with NEC-4 modeling, but I don't have time to do that. I 
suggest that you locate a copy of Brown, Lewis, and Epstein's paper 
"Ground Systems as a Factor in Antenna Efficiency", now posted on the 
web. You should be able to get a fairly good idea from their 
measurements of 113-radial systems.

> 
> In the paragraph above is the mesh simulating a ground or is it fact 
> operating as a ground.

I really don't know what "simulating a ground" and "operating as a 
ground" means. But the radial field doesn't act like either real Earth 
or a perfect infinite plane, if that's what you mean. If sufficiently 
fine, a mesh will act like a solid conductor the size of the mesh.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 216974 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allodoxaphobia <bit-bucket@config.com>
Subject: Re: Dummy Load experience?
Date: 7 Sep 2005 19:44:29 GMT
Message-ID: <slrndhugot.t10.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <JO6dncCddOOyaIPeRVn-vQ@web-ster.com>

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 07:12:12 -0700, Tim Wescott wrote:
> CD wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm curious about dummy loads. I read that ideally dummy loads convert
>> RF energy into heat, but I'm sure in the real world, there will still
>> be a small amount RF energy transmitted.
>> 
>> My friend tried using a dummy load on a 300W transmitter. He was only
>> running it for a few mins at the VHF range, but he was picking up a
>> signal 100 ft away. Is that typical?
>> 
>> What's your experience on dummy loads? Were you able to pick up a
>> signal, as well, with this type of distance?
>> 
>> I don't know much about dummy loads, but I think that 100ft is just a
>> tad bit too far, no?
>> 
> Even with a perfect dummy load you'd still get some leakage from your 
> transmitter and cabling -- I generally expect that if I run into a dummy 
> load I'm going to peg the S meter of any receivers that are on-frequency 
> and in the room.
>
> So picking up the signal 100ft away doesn't surprise me.

A friend of mine and I used to do 'code practice' on 40M with our rigs
cranked down to approx 20 watts each -- using Heathkit Cantennas at both
ends.  S-9 sigs both ways.  We were 5 blocks apart.

As well, once a week we used to (attempt to) check into a distant (180 
miles) 2M SSB.  While waiting for net control (and the rest of the net)
to point in our compass direction (220 degrees - approx 35 past the hour),
we'd chat back and forth - again switched into the Cantennas.  And, again,
S-9+ sigs both ways.

It's more a testament to the quality of good receivers now-a-days -- than
the leakiness of a dummy load.  Look over what the QRP and QRPp folks are
doing - with their "Millions of Miles Per Watt" records, and you'll
realize (if you haven't already) than you can happily 'do' amateur radio
with Not Much Watts.

73
Jonesy
-- 
  Marvin L Jones     | jonz         | W3DHJ  |  linux
   Pueblo, Colorado  |  @           | Jonesy |   OS/2     __
    38.24N  104.55W  |   config.com | DM78rf |            SK


Article: 216975 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Richard Fry" <rfry@adams.net>
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Dummy Load experience?
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:52:55 -0500
Message-ID: <431f453f_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>

"CD"  wrote
> My friend tried using a dummy load on a 300W transmitter. He was only
> running it for a few mins at the VHF range, but he was picking up a
> signal 100 ft away. Is that typical?
______________

If that 300 W was all radiated from a matched 1/2-wave dipole, it would 
generate a free-space, maximum field of about 4 volts per meter at a 
distance of 100 feet.

If the sum of cabinet, cable and dummy load radiation was 80 dB below that, 
the maximum free-space field at 100 feet would be about 400 microvolts per 
meter -- a very healthy signal.

RF 



Article: 216976 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:08:22 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfnhbm$h7c$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com>


"Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com> wrote in message
news:qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:07:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
> <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >MK,
> >
> >How satisfying it is to read your message, written in plain, easy
to
> >understand, well-punctuated English, without any undeciferable
coded
> >abbreviations.
> >
> >I agree with what you say although I am unfamiliar with exactly how
> >the FCC fits into the scheme of things.
> >
> >Amateurs and commercial broadcasters have a common fundamental
> >requirement. There is a service area to be covered with a given
field
> >strength. Depending on frequency, requirements then diverge.  But
the
> >design methods used to satisfy requirements are all confined (or
> >should be) to the principles of engineering economics. Inevitably,
the
> >Dollar, Pound, Frank, Mark, Rouble and the Yen rule the roost.
> >
> >Both commercial broadcasters and amateurs do a cost-befit analysis.
> >The broadcaster takes into account the revenue acruing from selling
> >the service. The amateur, whether he likes it or not, has to ask
> >himself what the satisfaction of using the station is worth.
> >
> >Amateurs' bank accounts are not unlimited.
> >
> >Field strength at the limits of the service area depends on the
power
> >efficiency of the radiating system. If engineering economics
dictate
> >use of a set of buried ground radials then the peformance of the
> >ground radials must be included.  Considering the system as a
whole,
> >it may be economical NOT to achieve the maximum possible radiating
> >efficiency.  Indeed, the maximum is seldom the target.
> >
> >If there is an economical choice in the matter, once the location
of
> >the station is decided, everybody agrees that efficiency depends on
> >soil resistivity at the site.  To estimate efficiency it is
necessary,
> >at the very least, to make a guess at soil resistivity. Perhaps
just
> >by looking at the type of weeds growing in it.  Or it can be
measured.
> >
> >Depending on how far it enters into station economics, it is
possible
> >to numerically estimate efficiency from the number and length of
> >radials AND FROM SOIL RESISTIVITY.
> >
> >B.L & E and the FCC don't enter into it.
> >----
> >Reg.
>
> Sorry to disagree, Reg, but it appears you're overlooking an
important
> point--the difference between the efficiency of the radiating system
> itself, versus the efficiency of the ground area external to the
> radiating system.
>
> BL&E shows that when 90 - 120 (actually 113) radials of 0,4 w/l form
> the ground system for a 1/4 wl radiator, the efficiency is 98.7%
> efficient, REGARDLESS OF THE SOIL RESISTIVITY UNDER THE RADIALS.
This
> is shown by obtaining the field strength of 192 mv/meter at 1 mile
for
> 1000 watts delivered to the antenna under the conditions described
> above, compared to 194.5 mv/meter with a perfect ground having an
> efficiency of 100%
>
> It is only the soil resistivity of the ground external to the radial
> system that determines the field stength external to the radial
> system. Consequently, the soil resistivity (or conductivity, if you
> like) is significant only in the areas external to the radial
system.
>
> Walt, W2DU
>
=======================================

Walt, just what is it you cannot agree with? You appear to be making
an argument where none exists.

It is obvious there must be a distant point beyond which a large
number of radials will approach 100% efficiency regardless of ground
resistivity.  B.L & E and the FCC arbitraliry decided on
1/2-wavelength and 120.  Both nice round figures.

I'm sorrry to say you appear unable to agree that for the remaining
99.9% of all possible cases,  ie., for cases less than 1/2-wavelength
and fewer than 120 radials, that GROUND RESISTIVITY in the immediate
vicinity of the antenna DOES HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON EFFICIENCY
and it cannot be disregarded.

My only criticism of B.L & E is that they forgot to measure soil
resistivity before leaving the site. And apparently, nobody has ever
bothered to go back and do it for them.

The only mention of their work occurs on this newsgroup. When laying
radials, 99% of amateurs forget B.L & E (if they have ever heard of
them) and the magic number of 120.

Hasan Schiers has recently given a blow-by-blow account of a sensible
way to lay a set of radials with the reasoning behind it.
----
Reg.




Article: 216977 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:17:13 -0500
Message-ID: <3649-431F4AC9-92@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
References: <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Reg, G4FGQ wrote:
"The broadcaster takes into account the revenue accruing from selling
the service."

Yes, and he takes into account the ease of compliance with FCC Riles in
the USA.

Although 90 radials is a minimum requirement for the U.S. AM
broadcaster, here is the rule quoted by John Edward Cunningham in his
1977 "The Complete Broadcast Antenna Handbook", from page 311:

"The current FCC Rules specify that the radials should be at least 1/4
wavelength long and that there should be as many as practicable, but in
no case less than 90. The Rules add that a system of 120 radials spaced
every 3-degrees and extending 0.35-0.4 wavelength from the tower is
considered an excellent ground system. In addition, a square ground
screen 24 or 48 on a side is often provided at the base of the tower,
particularly when the tower height is such as to cause a high voltage.

Whenever a less than optimum ground system is used, the FCC requires a
complete field-intensity survey to establish that the effective field at
one mile meets minimum requirements."

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 216978 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:08:25 -0700
Message-ID: <11hulmh3t2s1t5b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <dfnhbm$h7c$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Reg Edwards wrote:
> . . .
> My only criticism of B.L & E is that they forgot to measure soil
> resistivity before leaving the site. And apparently, nobody has ever
> bothered to go back and do it for them.

What would you suggest as a method of measuring the RF ground 
resistivity to a depth of 17 - 100 feet (3 skin depths at 3 MHz for the 
range of likely resistivities)? Assuming it's very likely that the 
resistivity would be quite different at different depths within that 
range, how should they have used that information? How would you use 
that information if someone "bothered to go back and do it for them"?

Reg, all signs point to your being seriously in need of a holiday. How 
about a little trip to New Jersey to show us Yanks how it should have 
been done? For less than the price of a couple of bottles of decent 
wine, you can buy everything you'll need -- bucket, pocket DVM, trowel 
-- right there, so you won't even have to carry any equipment with you.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 216979 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:16:12 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfnorb$o6u$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <dfnhbm$h7c$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <11hulmh3t2s1t5b@corp.supernews.com>

Dear Roy,

I'm sorry to say your worthless comments constitute an abject
admission of defeat in an argument which exists only in your
imagination.

By the way, are you still using your S-meter as the North American
Standard of signal strength?
----
Reg.




Article: 216980 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "God" <nunya@myhouse.com>
References: <1116948846.845758.269720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1116950811.722761.163430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <wlJke.4282$c4.2494@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>   <1116956452.889209.81740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <4293acf2$0$298$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>   <4293be22$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <1117690429.916477.190610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <429f04f7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <43148C75.606@library.berkeley.edu> <9_1Te.71845$2Q3.57303@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com> <Pine.GSO.4.58.0509052317440.6886@alumni.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: I wonder...
Message-ID: <llKTe.27373$mb4.12609@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:03:45 GMT

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0509052317440.6886@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:
>
>
> Well, me, I'm reading this from RAMC, and so I wonder if God and Allah and
> Jesus and that lot use K&N or Fram filters.


Yes, I do use Fram filters. 




Article: 216981 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: <munsch@attglobal.net>
References: <1126100684.670634.172990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on building a 6 meter vertical antenna
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:02:12 -0500
Message-ID: <431fad26_3@news1.prserv.net>

Mike:

One thing that no one will tell you is why manufacturers use plated hardware
which rusts instead of stainless.  Cost? No.  Stainless will not stay tight,
while plated hardware will rust up and then never loosen.  So, if you use
stainless, it is highly desirable to use Nylon insert locknuts or else
carefully double nut everything, and add Loctite before assembly.  It is no
fun finding another piece of the antenna at the bottom of the tower every
day after the wind blows a while.

--
Crazy George




Article: 216982 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Owen Duffy <owen@no.where>
Subject: Re: Advice on building a 6 meter vertical antenna
Message-ID: <7hcvh1tv86rpkssj1kugu5fg4f1hhrecl4@4ax.com>
References: <1126100684.670634.172990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <431fad26_3@news1.prserv.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:47:16 GMT

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:02:12 -0500, <munsch@attglobal.net> wrote:

>Mike:
>
>One thing that no one will tell you is why manufacturers use plated hardware
>which rusts instead of stainless.  Cost? No.  Stainless will not stay tight,
>while plated hardware will rust up and then never loosen.  So, if you use
>stainless, it is highly desirable to use Nylon insert locknuts or else
>carefully double nut everything, and add Loctite before assembly.  It is no
>fun finding another piece of the antenna at the bottom of the tower every
>day after the wind blows a while.

George, I wonder if you tried lubricating the ss parts before
assembly.

Stainess threaded parts are well known for galling, and can bind
before properly tensioning the fastener. It is a widely debated topic,
but common advice is to lubricate the parts. Google for debate on what
to use (wax, WD40, grease, moly etc)

My experience is that stainless threads should be lubricated whenever
used with nyloc nuts to reduce heat damage and galling of the nyloc
insert. Marine grease seems to work fine, and it doesn't seem to
unduly upset the prevailing torgue characteristics.

Mike, ss hoseclamps on telescoping tubes with split ends seems to work
fine. Put a bit of marine grease on the worm in the hoseclamp. I think
you are less likely to crush the tube than through-bolting it.
Remember that the joint is going to flex to some extent. A little bit
of corrosion inhibitor in the slip joint will help maintain a good
connnection through life... depends on the environment as to the
necessity to to this.

FWIW.

Owen
--


Article: 216983 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: passive antenna
References: <ELtTe.10099$bC3.3658@bignews1.bellsouth.net> <18566-431EFC60-34@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <02m5v2-72n.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:05:51 -0500

Further to Richards comments

You can also model a passive repeater reasonably easily. With a 
propagation modelling pgm (eg Radio Mobile, UKWTools etc) find out what 
the receive signal level will be at the "repeater", then do a coverage 
study with that signal from the repeater site.

In my experience the signals are very low and not often worth it. I was 
however involved in a setup to get signal on 400MHz into a railway 
cutting from a TX site only 1800 metres away. The measured signal in the 
cutting was about -107dBm but with the passive setup that came up to 
about -87dBm. In this case the cutting was on the side of a mountain (ie 
no other usable reflections) and the useful distance from the passive 
repeater was only about 200 metres. The repeater was a 14dBi yagi 
pointed at the distant TX site coax connected to a 8dBi yagi pointed 
down the cutting.

Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA

Richard Harrison wrote:
> 
> Ian wrote:
> "Can a passive repeater work on my cell phone?"


Article: 216984 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: 80m Inverted L Initial measurements
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:38:22 -0500
Message-ID: <21133-43203ECE-123@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
References: <dfg8d5$hpr$1@news.netins.net>

Hassan Schiers wrote:
"--and 16 radials on 80m are quite sufficient over my type of soil."

Glancing at Fig. 2.17 on page 119 of Laport`s "Radio Antenna
Engineering" shows that BL&E would agree.

1000 watts into a 90-degree vertical with 16 radials will produce about
160 mv/m at one mile. Perfection is only about 190 mv/m. 85% should be
close enough to perfection, unless you are a broadcaster or the FCC
enforcing its rules on a broadcaster.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 216985 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:40:00 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfpevg$53m$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <ok5uh19f3kpjl75ne83johikoo26pffu3u@4ax.com>


<Dan Richardson wrote -
 > Had BL&E been Englishmen I sure things would be different.<G>
====================================

They sure would!

They would have been instructed to go back and finish the job.
----
Reg.




Article: 216986 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Caveat Lector" <UALLBeware@9984reader.com>
Subject: Ham Antennas At Work During Katrina Aftermath
Message-ID: <X9YTe.6064$mH.5570@fed1read07>
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:47:20 -0700

http://easylink.playstream.com/katu/050831ham_operator_530pm.wvx

-- 
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !









Article: 216987 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:09:23 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfpnnj$sij$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <ok5uh19f3kpjl75ne83johikoo26pffu3u@4ax.com> <dfpevg$53m$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

> Dan Richardson wrote -
>  > Had BL&E been Englishmen I sure things would be different.<G>
> ====================================
>
> They sure would!
>
> They would have been instructed (by their employers) to go back and
finish the job.
> ----
> Reg.

=====================================

I am reminded of the military engineer who was dispatched by Napolion,
an engineer himself, in connection with standardisation of the Metre,
to measure the distance between the Earth's Equator and the North
Pole.

Measurements began, but the further the engineer departed from his
beautiful lady friend in Paris the more difficult it became to make
progress along the route. Eventually, he couldn't withstand the mental
and physical stress. He returned to her Parisian boudoir and resorted
to cooking the books in what time he had to spare.

So, the International Standard of Length, The Metre, held in Paris,
France, carefully guarded by the German occupying forces during WW2,
may or may not be equal to 39.37 English inches.

Actually, the most fundamental physical measurement standard is the
Mass of the Standard Kilogram on which everything else depends. But it
is quite an arbitrary quantity.

I have just finished a bottle of Blossom Hill, Californian, white
wine. Makes a pleasant change to arguing about what 'amateurs' BL&E
might, or might not have done before leaving the site.
----
Reg.




Article: 216988 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on building a 6 meter vertical antenna
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:19:13 -0500
Message-ID: <11i0p42gsqjjj6c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126100684.670634.172990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <431fad26_3@news1.prserv.net>   <7hcvh1tv86rpkssj1kugu5fg4f1hhrecl4@4ax.com> <1126179531.846744.320350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

pinpassion wrote:
> Dave, Ralph, George, and Owen
> 
> Thank you for your help and suggestions.
> 
> Mike
> 
Thank You Mike. That's what we are here for.

Dave WD9BDZ


Article: 216989 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:22:00 -0500
Message-ID: <11i0p99q0dvpncc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <k2joh1pfjq49nh5qcttqv2jtimlraak596@4ax.com>   <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <ok5uh19f3kpjl75ne83johikoo26pffu3u@4ax.com> <dfpevg$53m$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dfpnnj$sij$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Reg Edwards wrote:

>>Dan Richardson wrote -
>> > Had BL&E been Englishmen I sure things would be different.<G>
>>====================================
>>
>>They sure would!
>>
>>They would have been instructed (by their employers) to go back and
> 
> finish the job.
> 
>>----
>>Reg.
> 
> 
> =====================================
> 
> I am reminded of the military engineer who was dispatched by Napolion,
> an engineer himself, in connection with standardisation of the Metre,
> to measure the distance between the Earth's Equator and the North
> Pole.
> 
> Measurements began, but the further the engineer departed from his
> beautiful lady friend in Paris the more difficult it became to make
> progress along the route. Eventually, he couldn't withstand the mental
> and physical stress. He returned to her Parisian boudoir and resorted
> to cooking the books in what time he had to spare.
> 
> So, the International Standard of Length, The Metre, held in Paris,
> France, carefully guarded by the German occupying forces during WW2,
> may or may not be equal to 39.37 English inches.
> 
> Actually, the most fundamental physical measurement standard is the
> Mass of the Standard Kilogram on which everything else depends. But it
> is quite an arbitrary quantity.
> 
> I have just finished a bottle of Blossom Hill, Californian, white
> wine. Makes a pleasant change to arguing about what 'amateurs' BL&E
> might, or might not have done before leaving the site.
> ----
> Reg.
> 
> 
All the above is/maybe true but remember that all the formule work using 
the values represented in the METRE and the KILOGRAM. Something must be 
correct here....

Dave WD9BDZ


Article: 216990 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Walter Maxwell <walt@w2du.com>
Subject: Re: Ground rods.at HF
Message-ID: <eaq0i11umq6se8bncjql655d3omvtb4mj1@4ax.com>
References: <911-431CAB16-222@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>   <gkdph1929c6kiq0i8fngf058mtnjvh0g8t@4ax.com>   <dfkc5v$c4o$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <1126055532.489260.114130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <dfms7b$pbi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <qn1uh1dln013betj933p8fv9irsccpb3sb@4ax.com> <ok5uh19f3kpjl75ne83johikoo26pffu3u@4ax.com> <dfpevg$53m$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dfpnnj$sij$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:51:30 -0400

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:09:23 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:


>I have just finished a bottle of Blossom Hill, Californian, white
>wine. Makes a pleasant change to arguing about what 'amateurs' BL&E
>might, or might not have done before leaving the site.
>----
>Reg.
>
I hate to say this, Reg, but calling BL&E 'amateurs' is insulting to
me. I knew them well, and worked with B and E in the RCA Laboratories
antenna lab, and they are anything but 'amateurs'. I think you
finished off the Blossom Hill to rapidly.

Perhaps you should take a look at the long list of IRE articles
published by Dr. G.H. Brown, reporting his work  that shaped the
present design of all AM BC antennas. Did you ever  wonder what
happened to the diamond-shaped AM towers? And why the AM towers
constructed since 1940 have a uniform cross section?

And did you know that Dr. Brown gave John Kraus, W8JK, the idea of
close spaced elements that culminated in the 'W8JK Beam' antenna?

L, (Bob Lewis) is also a fine engineer, although he is also a ham,
W2EBS. 

Walt


Article: 216991 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim - NN7K <nn7kexk7zfg@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Best wire for FM reception (car antenna)
References: <v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com> <h9k1i15btvjje5soc3lgp64429f8d7jmas@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ap4Ue.2814$I7.2658@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:09:42 GMT

Or "Brazeing Rod" might be more acceptable, as most welding rod have 
seen is coated with flux -- Jim NN7K


Richard Clark wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:51:11 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> 
>>What is the best type of "wire" for making a homemade car antenna 
>>to pick up FM radio. Is it copper? Aluminium? What thickness or 
>>size. Lenght?
> 
> 
> Hi Frank,
> 
> Try welding rod.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Article: 216992 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Greg" <not_here@nospam.com>
References: <v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com> <h9k1i15btvjje5soc3lgp64429f8d7jmas@4ax.com> <ap4Ue.2814$I7.2658@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Best wire for FM reception (car antenna)
Message-ID: <ew4Ue.9987$iM2.925358@news.xtra.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:15:12 +1200

"Jim - NN7K" <nn7kexk7zfg@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:ap4Ue.2814$I7.2658@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> Or "Brazeing Rod" might be more acceptable, as most welding rod have seen 
> is coated with flux -- Jim NN7K
>
>
> Richard Clark wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:51:11 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What is the best type of "wire" for making a homemade car antenna to pick 
>>>up FM radio. Is it copper? Aluminium? What thickness or size. Lenght?
>>
>>
>> Hi Frank,
>>
>> Try welding rod.
>>
>> 73's
>> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Arc welding rods are usually coated. Gas welding rods are not, and could be 
brass, steel etc. 




Article: 216993 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Mac" <vk2evb@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue  After Katrina"  MSNBC News Article
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:43:22 +1000
Message-ID: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>
References: <11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>

Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac

"Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
> 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>
> -- 
>
> Charlie - AD5TH
> www.ad5th.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 




Article: 216994 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Reflector on a quad - Capacitor use?
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:32:58 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfqooa$5ks$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <1126073227.540139.163720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


"Blue Dawg" wrote
> http://www.cebik.com/quad/quad2.html
>
> why is a reflector using a capacitor a tad bit better on
gain/rejection
> on a quad?

==================================
Because the loading capacitor requires a tad bit greater length of the
loaded element which, for the same frequency, slightly changes the
radiation pattern.

When a loading coil is used the element is a tad bit shorter and,
combined with the small loss in the loading coil, it has the opposite
effect.
----
Reg.




Article: 216995 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: <munsch@attglobal.net>
References: <1126100684.670634.172990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <431fad26_3@news1.prserv.net> <7hcvh1tv86rpkssj1kugu5fg4f1hhrecl4@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on building a 6 meter vertical antenna
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:53:05 -0500
Message-ID: <4320eea7_3@news1.prserv.net>

Owen:

We've had this discussion before, and I must be using better quality
stainless hardware than you have used.  In the dozens of pounds of stainless
>from 0-80 up to 5/8" I have installed in the last 40 years, I could not
specify when the last one galled if I had to.  And I take lots of them
apart, in addition to those which I expect to last forever.  OTOH, somewhere
around 40 years ago when I first started using stainless, I found plenty of
it on the ground under a month old installation until I wised up about the
fact that lock washers, even split ring style, were not enough to hold under
constant vibration.  And especially so on tubing where the tubing collapses
before the lockwasher will bite into the nut.

--
Crazy George
"Owen Duffy" <owen@no.where> wrote in message
news:7hcvh1tv86rpkssj1kugu5fg4f1hhrecl4@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:02:12 -0500, <munsch@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >Mike:
> >
> >One thing that no one will tell you is why manufacturers use plated
hardware
> >which rusts instead of stainless.  Cost? No.  Stainless will not stay
tight,
> >while plated hardware will rust up and then never loosen.  So, if you use
> >stainless, it is highly desirable to use Nylon insert locknuts or else
> >carefully double nut everything, and add Loctite before assembly.  It is
no
> >fun finding another piece of the antenna at the bottom of the tower every
> >day after the wind blows a while.
>
> George, I wonder if you tried lubricating the ss parts before
> assembly.
>
> Stainess threaded parts are well known for galling, and can bind
> before properly tensioning the fastener. It is a widely debated topic,
> but common advice is to lubricate the parts. Google for debate on what
> to use (wax, WD40, grease, moly etc)
>
> My experience is that stainless threads should be lubricated whenever
> used with nyloc nuts to reduce heat damage and galling of the nyloc
> insert. Marine grease seems to work fine, and it doesn't seem to
> unduly upset the prevailing torgue characteristics.
>
> Mike, ss hoseclamps on telescoping tubes with split ends seems to work
> fine. Put a bit of marine grease on the worm in the hoseclamp. I think
> you are less likely to crush the tube than through-bolting it.
> Remember that the joint is going to flex to some extent. A little bit
> of corrosion inhibitor in the slip joint will help maintain a good
> connnection through life... depends on the environment as to the
> necessity to to this.
>
> FWIW.
>
> Owen
> --





Article: 216996 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: passive antenna
References: <ELtTe.10099$bC3.3658@bignews1.bellsouth.net>   <18566-431EFC60-34@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net>   <02m5v2-72n.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <1126222544.059326.240040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga97v2-5lo.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:40:46 -0500

Hi Ian

The "back to back" antennas of the passive repeater are simply joined by 
  a transmission cable that suits the antennas. ie If they are 50 ohm 
antennas use 50 ohm coax. Think of one of the antennas as a source of 
signal and the other as a load (although they work in both directions) 
hence the connection is simple.

So the system is;

- The passive repeater consisting of two antennas. One (yagi?) pointed 
at the cell tower the other (whatever it is) pointing at the place where 
you will be using the cellphone. If you are moving around a bit with the 
phone you may wish to use a reasonably wide beamwidth antenna rather 
than something too directive.

- If there still isnt enough signal you could mount another external 
antenna on the cellphone itself pointed at the passive repeayter antenna.

- Design of the antennas will also include selction of coax etc 
connection. You could equally as well built antenas with 300 ohm 
impedence and join with them 300m ohm ribbon. Are you building your own 
or buying antennas off the shelf? I'd actually suggest some corner 
reflectors as they are not as critical as long yagi's and have a more 
useful/wider bandwidth coverage. mr Cebik (http://www.cebik.com)has some 
corner reflector designs you may be able to scale to 900Mhz.

Cheers Bob

yhan wrote:
> 
> how about the connection? can you direct me on how to establish
> connection b/w two antennas. say, coax cable.How to connect this to the
> two antennas?
> 
> thanks & regards,
> 
> ian
> 


Article: 216997 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xpr7t.net>
Subject: Re: Best wire for FM reception (car antenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:37:55 -0700
Message-ID: <11i20skhrp0t34a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com> <h9k1i15btvjje5soc3lgp64429f8d7jmas@4ax.com>

"Frank" wrote:
> What is the best type of "wire" for making a homemade
> car antenna to pick up FM radio. Is it copper? Aluminium? 

Traditional is steel (i.e. coat-hanger wire  :-)

In reality, it makes no difference except mechanically.

> What thickness or size. 

It is a mechanical issue. What makes it self-supporting?
Electrically it is of no significance.

> Lenght?

Well, the middle of the FM broadcast band is ~98MHz
and 1/4 wavelength is ~28.5 inches.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagenericfreqlencalc.html



Article: 216998 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE>
Subject: Help Identify Tower manufacturer
Message-ID: <v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:19:39 GMT

Gentlemen,

I am attempting to identify the tower manufacture of the tower pictured at:
http://www.ppinyot.com/antenna.htm.    I would like to properly design a 
base for it given  the manufacturers specs plus perhaps pick up additional 
sections.

The tower seems to be of a stamped steel design (not tubular) with stamped 
steel cross members.  It has been well maintained by the silent key's son. 
I gather it is about 10 to 15 years old.  There is an unpainted ladder 
chained to one side for storage. Please do not confuse this as part of the 
tower.

Also if you happen to recognize the beam please Identify it too.

Unfortunately some one discarded all the paper work not knowing it's value.

Thanks Paul

paul at ppinyot dot com

KB3LZP 




Article: 216999 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry" <joxendi@bellsouth.net>
References: <11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com><dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au> <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <tjhUe.31$z73.22@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:52:46 -0400


"K4YZ" <k4yz@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mac wrote:
>> Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>>
>> "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
>> > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Charlie - AD5TH
>> > www.ad5th.com
>
>     I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
> Amateur Radio.
>
>     Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
> laid waste.
>
> 73
>
> Steve, K4YZ

Yeah!  Where's all those fellers "a-standin' by to pass that 'ere 
'eee-mer-gen-cee' traffic thar". We down, we off the key, we gone (thar)" 
:)

J
> 




Article: 217000 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:13:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

The latest QEX has an article by k9la: "The Impact of Load SWR
on the Efficiency of Power Amplifiers". The amplifier is designed
to drive a 50 ohm load and simulated measurements were made for
8 reflection coefficients of 0.333 with phase angles in 45 degree
increments.

One thing I don't understand. When driving a 100 ohm load, the
drain current is 33 amps and the efficiency is 62%. When driving
a 25 ohm load, the drain current is 12 amps and the efficiency
is 83%.

The amp is a Class E/F design from Jan/Feb 2004 QEX. Why would
the drain current fall when the load is decreased from 100 ohms
to 25 ohms?
-- 
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217001 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:52:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com>

Tim Wescott wrote:

> Cecil Moore wrote:
>> The amp is a Class E/F design from Jan/Feb 2004 QEX. Why would
>> the drain current fall when the load is decreased from 100 ohms
>> to 25 ohms?
> 
> The output filter of an amplifier can act like a 1/4 wave (or 3/4 wave) 
> transmission line, ...

I should have described the output circuitry. It's a push-pull
LC tank circuit with DC supplied by the coil center-tap. The
output is just a link coupler. The low-pass filter is a single
series L and single C to ground.
-- 
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217002 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best wire for FM reception (car antenna)
From: Mike <no@email.no>
References: <v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <7TjUe.7961$Ix4.2646@okepread03>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:45:39 GMT

This site has some interesting antennas and info:

http://www.ccrane.com/ 


Article: 217003 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7zzt@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: BBB Complaint # 414840 against Bozak Antenna
References: <4315e07b$1@tbbs.net>
Message-ID: <_FkUe.389$GK2.384@lakeread07>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:40:08 -0700

anon wrote:

> 
> http://members.tripod.com/~Bozak/HOMEPAGE.HTM
> 
>  
> 
heh. he's go 2 dozen popups on that site as well. oh well, he wants my biz,
he'll have to do better (and since he appears to be a moron, I won't do biz
with him).

-- 
DE N7ZZT
Eric Oyen
Phoenix, Arizona
e-mail: n7zzt(at)hotmail(dot)com
the difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence 
has its limits.


Article: 217004 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7zzt@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Lightning Question
References: <1125443164.355999.136830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rJkUe.390$GK2.111@lakeread07>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:43:49 -0700

wizard12342002@yahoo.com wrote:

> Suppose I have an antenna some distance from the house.  I run the
> transmission line down from the antenna, bury the line, run it
> underground to the house, place a lightning arrestor and ground just
> outside the house, then run the transmission line up the side of the
> house to the operating position on the second floor. Does anyone see a
> problem with this arrangement?  I can't imagine that a lightning would
> "want" to travel back up toward the operating position when it has a
> good ground (at the arrestor) closer to the antenna.
> 
> -JJ
you would be better to place a lightning arrestor at the tower (and ground
the tower as well) and perhaps 1 or 2 along the coax to your house (all
ground rodded). This method is referred to as "defense in depth".

its how I did it with an old CB setup on a large lot 20 years ago. saved a
lot of heartache (though I did have to replace coax a bit more often).

-- 
DE N7ZZT
Eric Oyen
Phoenix, Arizona
e-mail: n7zzt(at)hotmail(dot)com
the difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence 
has its limits.


Article: 217005 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7zzt@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Amateur Radio Assistance to Katrina Disaster!
References: <JyiRe.2664$xw1.1794@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <fPkUe.391$GK2.24@lakeread07>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:50:00 -0700

laborkei wrote:

> I have been watching wwltv.com and wdsutv.com on the Internet.
> I keep hearing about the lack of emergency services to communicate.
> Does anyone know if any Amateur Operators are being engaged to assist?
> 
> 
> --
lots of them.
even showed up on fox news and nbc.

unfortunately, the DHS/FEMA are trying very hard to keep everything on their
plate (thus even hams with the American red cross are being told to pound
sand in some cases).

-- 
DE N7ZZT
Eric Oyen
Phoenix, Arizona
e-mail: n7zzt(at)hotmail(dot)com
the difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence 
has its limits.


Article: 217006 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy@nospam.hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:33:34 +0200
Message-ID: <dfso2g$b7h$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com><dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au> <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


"K4YZ" <k4yz@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mac wrote:
>> Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>>
>> "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
>> > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Charlie - AD5TH
>> > www.ad5th.com
>
>     I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
> Amateur Radio.
>
>     Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
> laid waste.
>
> 73
>
> Steve, K4YZ
>

Methinks a very strongly worded letter from ARRL to the head honcho at 
Motorola might be a good idea.

73
and special kudos to all those volunteers.
ZR3RC








Article: 217007 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:36:12 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> K4YZ wrote:
>> Mac wrote:
>> > Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>> >
>> > "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
>> > > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > Charlie - AD5TH
>> > > www.ad5th.com
>>
>>      I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
>> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
>> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
>> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
>> Amateur Radio.
>
> No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
> H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>
> It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
> keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>
> the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
> lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
>>
>>      Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
>> laid waste.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Steve, K4YZ
>

As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about.  Here 
in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red 
Cross on the Gulf Coast.  They have, and ARE providing the ONLY 
communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.

The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 217008 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve Nosko" <suteuve.nosukowicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: assymetrical antenna
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:59:11 -0500
Message-ID: <dfspif$44i$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>
References: <fJZSe.7175$FO3.4183@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <X9_Se.7289$L86.95@bignews6.bellsouth.net> <AH_Se.9378$VU6.3783@bignews5.bellsouth.net>

The original Windom *was* an intentionally off center fed multi-band
antenna.  Anybody have info on the Windom from the 40's 40's.   Dad used
one, but I don't know what he did.


Steve K,9'D;C.I
"RB" <rbig@bellsouth.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:AH_Se.9378$VU6.3783@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Thanks.
>
> I think it's one of those deals that goes:  yes, there is an imbalance
> situation created.  But, it's not significant in the big picture.
>
> I can live with that!
>
>




Article: 217009 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve Nosko" <suteuve.nosukowicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:16:55 -0500
Message-ID: <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com> <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

I shouldn't, but will.    You don't say, but I think you are puzzled by a
decreasing load impedance causing a decrease in collector current.  I'd have
to think about it, but I'd first Try modeling that LC filter at resonance to
see if it gives an inverse function like the 1/4 wave line.
A "gut" reaction tells me that a decreasing collector current for *either*
an increased or decreased load Z would not be a surprise...

Steve K9DCI


"Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
> Tim Wescott wrote:
>
> > Cecil Moore wrote:
> >> The amp is a Class E/F design from Jan/Feb 2004 QEX. Why would
> >> the drain current fall when the load is decreased from 100 ohms
> >> to 25 ohms?
> >
> > The output filter of an amplifier can act like a 1/4 wave (or 3/4 wave)
> > transmission line, ...
>
> I should have described the output circuitry. It's a push-pull
> LC tank circuit with DC supplied by the coil center-tap. The
> output is just a link coupler. The low-pass filter is a single
> series L and single C to ground.
> -- 
> 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---




Article: 217010 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve Nosko" <suteuve.nosukowicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: Dummy Load experience?
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:09:11 -0500
Message-ID: <dfsq57$49m$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <M7GdnSM_N5cs1oLeRVn-1Q@comcast.com>


"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:M7GdnSM_N5cs1oLeRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
> My dummy load is 100% enclosed in oil AND a 1 gallon can. This is pretty
> tight. I estimate leakage at around -120 to - 130 dB.
>
> I run about 10 to 11 feet of coax from my transmitter to the low pass
> filter to the tuner to the antenna switch to the dummy load. The coax is
> good quality 9913. BUT, it uses a woven copper braid as the overbraid.
> The braid has a leakage impedance of typically 0.020 + jw10^-8 ohms. The
> inductive term means that the little holes in the braid 'LEAK' rf. At
> VHF the coax isolation could be -60 to -80 dB.

Ahhh!  You stole' my thunder.  Coax typically only has 60-80 dB isolation at
best and that is if it is made well and connectors are on well.  Before it
even gets to the coax connector of the radio, there'll be some radiation.
73, Steve, K9DCI




Article: 217011 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve Nosko" <suteuve.nosukowicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: I wonder...
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:01:52 -0500
Message-ID: <dfspng$49k$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>
References: <1116948846.845758.269720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1116950811.722761.163430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <wlJke.4282$c4.2494@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>   <1116956452.889209.81740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <4293acf2$0$298$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>   <4293be22$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <1117690429.916477.190610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <429f04f7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <43148C75.606@library.berkeley.edu> <9_1Te.71845$2Q3.57303@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com> <Pine.GS <6oWdnQUlhN8CH73eRVn-ug@comcast.com>

...  Filters?    Filters?  We don't need no stinkin' filters...

Bah dum dum...  Tshhhhhhh

Steve N.

"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6oWdnQUlhN8CH73eRVn-ug@comcast.com...
>
>
> God wrote:
>
> > "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0509052317440.6886@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> >
> >>On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Well, me, I'm reading this from RAMC, and so I wonder if God and Allah
and
> >>Jesus and that lot use K&N or Fram filters.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I do use Fram filters.
>
> God has spoken!  So, end the thread!
> >
> >
>




Article: 217012 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry Martes" <j.jmartes@verizon.net>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Message-ID: <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:12:53 GMT


<petercc@care2.com> wrote in message 
news:1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am looking to set up a laptop on a boat that will receive wifi
> signals. I need to install a twenty foot cable from the antenna to a
> Proxim orinoco 8011b/g gold wireless card. I have found the cable but
> don't know what antenna to attach to it as I want to minimize loss of
> signal and I believe I have to get a certain length antenna to
> synchronize with the cable length to do this. Does anyone know what the
>
> right size antenna should be? Also, any suggestions on where to pick
> one
> up?
> I found the cable here
> http://sharperconcepts.zoovy.com/product/YSC-CA-RSPNMAXXX
>

  Hi Petercc

  I have some interest in a similar project with WiFi.  Forgive me if I'm 
not understanding what you want to do.

  Are you sure that card will fit in your lap top?  All the lap top PCMCIA 
WiFi cards I've seen, that have a coax connector, use a much smaller 
connector.
  You didnt indicate if you know from which direction the WiFi signal is 
coming from.  does the marine antenna need to be omniazimuth?
  Are you willing to accept the signal loss associated with the 20 feet of 
coax?

  My weather conditions are not as extreme as your marine environment.   I 
have installed a wireless Ethernet bridge at the antenna and connected that 
to the computer with CAT 5 to alleviate the line loss problem at 2.4 GHz.

  E-mail me if you want any info and/or pictures of what I'm messing with.

                  Jerry




Article: 217013 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96CCC4F23BF9Cspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:21:02 GMT



> I am looking to set up a laptop on a boat that will receive wifi
> signals. I need to install a twenty foot cable from the antenna to a
> Proxim orinoco 8011b/g gold wireless card. I have found the cable but
> don't know what antenna to attach to it as I want to minimize loss of
> signal and I believe I have to get a certain length antenna to
> synchronize with the cable length to do this. Does anyone know what the
> 
> right size antenna should be? Also, any suggestions on where to pick
> one up?


   I'd suggest you post your question to some of the Internet wireless or 
networking newsgroups.  I've seen questions similar to yours posted on some 
of them recently, such as,  comp.os.linux.networking .   I've also seen 
some good antenna sources given in posted responses there.


   Ed   


Article: 217014 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Paul Keinanen <keinanen@sci.fi>
Subject: Re: lf to HF preselector design needed
Message-ID: <8k35i11lmh2sdrn8re7g69gh6d3j8mkqo6@4ax.com>
References: <9df4i1546l564jt5uc22lp8gva22v9qdgi@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:16:44 +0300

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:01:27 -0400, TRABEM <> wrote:

>I need an LF to 30 Khz preselector (passive) for a homebrewed receiver
>I'm building. I have most of the details worked out, but I am stuck on
>the preselector design.
>
>I want one band to cover 50 Khz to 500 Khz (or 1 Mhz). 

That would be 1:10 (or 1:20) frequency range.

>The second band would be 1 Mhz to 30 Mhz. 

That would be 1:30 frequency range and would require a 1:900 reactance
range, if only one element (inductance or capacitance) is tuned, which
would be completely unrealistic. The alternative would be to tune both
the inductance _and_ capacitance in the 1:30 range. However, with a
300 pF variable capacitor, the minimum capacitor would be 10 pF
_including_ all stray capacitances, not very realistic. I have no idea
what a realistic tuning range would be for a permeability tuned
inductor. I have only seen those in FM receivers (87..108 MHz), which
only about 20 % tuning range.

>50 ohm input with moderate Q (don't want to
>have to retune it every 100 Khz. The LF unit can be very high Q,
>peaking it every few Khz is ok as most of the signals in that range
>are narrowband signals anyway. Input impedance is standard 50 ohms.

Maintaining the constant impedance if both inductance and capacitance
is tuned would be a challenge.

While maintaining the power match makes some sense in HF receivers
(and also if you are using some small magnetic loops on LF/MF), but
otherwise, I would question the idea to maintain the 50 ohm resistive
input impedance on LF (and possibly also MF).

On LF, any practical random wire antenna would have a high capacitive
reactance. On LF I have simply used a parallel tuned circuit and
connected the antenna to the hot end of the circuit with a small
(10-100 pF) capacitor. Of course, the tuning scale will not be
accurate if you change the antenna, since the antenna stray
capacitances will detune the resonant circuit. Use a secondary winding
or a source/emitter follower to get the impedance down to feed a 50
ohm receiver input or feed a coaxial cable (if the preselector is just
under the antenna).

If you intend to use magnetic loop antennas on LF/MF, which have a low
efficiency, I would suggest using a (remotely)tunable loop as the
preselector, with possibly a preamplifier at the antenna.

I would strongly suggest splitting the HF bands and switching in
various inductors for various bands and use an ordinary variable
capacitor. 

The situation is quite problematic on LF, since you would need a
variable capacitor with a tuning range int several nF to keep the
resonant circuit impedances at manageable levels (otherwise, it would
be quite  "touchy" due to stray capacitances). With practical variable
capacitors, you would have to add parallel padding capacitors, with
would further reduce the tuning range. 

Permeability tuning might be an option. You could try making a coil
and slide a ferrite bar (from a medium wave antenna) into it, however,
I have no experience with this.  

Paul OH3LWR



Article: 217015 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Howard K0ACF" <howardk0acf@cox.net>
References: <v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Help Identify Tower manufacturer
Message-ID: <jRyUe.74612$DW1.35802@fed1read06>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:47:46 -0700

Looks like a Rohn HDX series. I had the HDX 48(48ft. tall) The HDX series 
went to 64 ft. if I remember right.
"Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE> wrote in 
message news:v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I am attempting to identify the tower manufacture of the tower pictured 
> at:
> http://www.ppinyot.com/antenna.htm.    I would like to properly design a 
> base for it given  the manufacturers specs plus perhaps pick up additional 
> sections.
>
> The tower seems to be of a stamped steel design (not tubular) with stamped 
> steel cross members.  It has been well maintained by the silent key's son. 
> I gather it is about 10 to 15 years old.  There is an unpainted ladder 
> chained to one side for storage. Please do not confuse this as part of the 
> tower.
>
> Also if you happen to recognize the beam please Identify it too.
>
> Unfortunately some one discarded all the paper work not knowing it's 
> value.
>
> Thanks Paul
>
> paul at ppinyot dot com
>
> KB3LZP
> 




Article: 217016 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Robert Lay (W9DMK)" <nobody@crosslink.net>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:23:50 -0400
Message-ID: <acn5i19a1frimvdadln0v2kt77aoptn4kq@4ax.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com>

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:46:24 -0400, "larry" <larya@rogers.com> wrote:

>greetings...
>
>I have been a ham since the mid 60's and the main antenna of choice appears
>to be dipole... However, over the past few months, or so, I have been
>reading more and more about this loop antenna.....
>
>I am reasonable sure I can get more information about it so I won't bore you
>with how to build one, etc, .. my question is more of why or how...  Why has
>this antenna become so popular over the past little while and how did it get
>this popularity....What charateristics, besides seemingly not needing as
>much geography to need to put up, does this antenna have that make is so
>appealing?
>
>I might consider it...for 80 or 40...
>
>Larry ve3fxq
>


Depending upon the size of the loop in wavelengths and depending upon
where in the geometry it is fed and depending upon its height, it
might very well be a good cloud warmer - in which case it would
probably give excellent performance in the immediate area (as opposed
to DX).

People that I QSO with on 75 seem to do very, very well with loop
antennas in the evening over a range of up to 500 - 700 mi.



Article: 217017 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:33:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com> <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>

Steve Nosko wrote:
> I shouldn't, but will.    You don't say, but I think you are puzzled by a
> decreasing load impedance causing a decrease in collector current.  I'd have
> to think about it, but I'd first Try modeling that LC filter at resonance to
> see if it gives an inverse function like the 1/4 wave line.
> A "gut" reaction tells me that a decreasing collector current for *either*
> an increased or decreased load Z would not be a surprise...

The output is link coupled through a series 216 nH coil and a 2.1 nF cap
to ground. The load is connected from the coil/cap junction to ground.
It's a Class E/F 40m amp.

Load     Drain Current     Drain Efficiency     Load Power
25 ohms     12.2 amps        82.6%              129 watts
50 ohms     20.1 amps        77.7%              200 watts
100 ohms    33.1 amps        62.3%              264 watts

Can these be thought of as load-pulling data points? Maximum load
power appears to occur when the load is greater than 100 ohms.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217018 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:44:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com>

larry wrote:
> I might consider it...for 80 or 40...

How long is the loop in wavelengths?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217019 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:59:35 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfuos7$96a$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> How long is the loop in wavelengths?
> -- 
============================

. . . . .  and is it in the horizontal of vertical plane?




Article: 217020 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: lf to HF preselector design needed
References: <9df4i1546l564jt5uc22lp8gva22v9qdgi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kf3bv2-f8s.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:25:39 -0500

I realise that you are after a passive solution but I wonder if an 
op-amp or two in a Q multiplier configuration *for the first band) might 
be a better idea? You could then tune the feedback/gain of the device 
with a R/C combination rather than large values of L. You could of 
course set the gain to 1 if you wanted.

Just an idle thought.

Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA

TRABEM wrote:
> 
> I need an LF to 30 Khz preselector (passive) for a homebrewed receiver
> I'm building. I have most of the details worked out, but I am stuck on
> the preselector design.
> 


Article: 217021 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <074bv2-39s.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:38:08 -0500

Hi Larry

You are talking about a shielded magloop rather than a full wave length 
single quad loop...

They exhibit reasonable performance for their size and are very quiet. 
ie the signal to noise is often better on the magloop than a larger 
antenna. I have seen claims that the signal strength is maybe 2 S points 
lower but the noise is 5 S points lower.

I have heard of configurations where a dipole is used for TX and a 
magloop for RX.

The at antenna tuning makes for less chance of a strong nearby signal 
desensitizing your RX. The downside of that is that you have to have 
some method of doing this remote tuning. Bandwidths in the order of 
20-30khz on 80m are not uncommon.

They can be built for 2:1 or 3:1 frequency coverage range. I have no 
idea how the performance changes at the far end.

I actually havent built one <weak grin>

Hope this helps.

Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA

larry wrote:
> this popularity....What charateristics, besides seemingly not needing as
> much geography to need to put up, does this antenna have that make is so
> appealing?


Article: 217022 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jack <texasjack1NOSPAM@NOSPAM.sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Question on car antenna (in-glass, rear windshield)
Message-ID: <mqs5i1dslpceh1rl6evdab58r2deq2ktpm@4ax.com>
References: <25ydndntds9xcoHeRVn-ow@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:00:01 GMT

I have a new 2005 Buick with a rear window heater/antenna. The heater
works and the FM reception is fine but the AM reception is terrible to
almost nil.. The dealer is working on the problem with the AM radio
reception and has ordered a new cable which they are going to install
when it arrives later this month. I doubt that this is the problem but
they think it is so we'll see after they install a new one. I'll post
a follow up when they figure out the problem with the AM radio. My
guess is that it is the radio but that is just my guess. 


On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:24:30 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>Hi all
>
>Let me preamble this by saying I am new at this, and need your 
>help. But I am a quick learner!
>
>I have a few specific questions and perhaps you can help. I am 
>trying to troubleshoot a Fm static problem
>
>1) Is the car coax cable lead one or two wires? I am quite sure 
>it is two (one outer (the ground) and one inner wire) but I'll 
>ask to confirm
>
>2) Should a "in-glass" rear winshield antenna be grounded to the 
>car's body? If so, from which end of the coax cable? (see Q 3)
>
>3) Does the expression "grounding the antena" (in the case of a 
>glass mounted antenna) be as simple as soldering a grounding wire 
>from the outside coax lead end that plugs into the HU to a metal 
>ground of the car? Or should it be done closer to the actual 
>antena? SUch as at the junction of the end of the coax and where 
>the antenna starts...
>
>Here is more detail on my problem if this helps: inconsistent FM 
>reception (re: static) with in-glass antenna where I use to get 
>crystal clear reception with old car. However, there is a twist 
>to my problem: I noticed that the coax cable (inner cable) from 
>the HU is not truly connected to the antenna even if it looks 
>like it is. I tested it with a continuity tester and it is not. 
>When I try to connect the inner coax wire directly to the antenna 
>(using a wire and soldering), then I can test it and it is well 
>connected. In other words, the inner wire of the coax makes a 
>continuous circuit from the HU's to the end of the antenna. Yet, 
>I still get some static on some FM station (which is not induced 
>by the engine or the car's electrical systems).
>
>Any suggestion? It is an RSX 2004 (Acura). I changed the HU twice 
>(two models) and the problem persists (same issue with the OEM)
>
>TIA 
>



Article: 217023 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@earthlink.net>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <YGDUe.506$LS5.315@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:18:00 GMT

"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
>> "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > K4YZ wrote:
>> >> Mac wrote:
>> >> > Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>> >> >
>> >> > "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
>> >> > > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Charlie - AD5TH
>> >> > > www.ad5th.com
>> >>
>> >>      I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
>> >> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the 
>> >> patriarch
>> >> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face 
>> >> of
>> >> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
>> >> Amateur Radio.
>> >
>> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
>> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>> >
>> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
>> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>> >
>> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
>> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
>> >>
>> >>      Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
>> >> laid waste.
>> >>
>> >> 73
>> >>
>> >> Steve, K4YZ
>> >
>>
>> As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. 
>> Here
>> in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
>> Cross on the Gulf Coast.  They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
>> communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
>
> did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> thrower?
>
> But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> I.
>
> as to your other points.
>
> One am unable judge for myself directly of course because of rules you
> personaly have supported for years.
>
> Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
> of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
> syaing they should but couldn't they.

That is incorrect. All the traffic I personally relayed was
emergency requests for rescue. All the traffic handled by
the net I helped was emergency traffic, and resulted in many
many rescues. Lots of folks are alive today because of ham radio.

> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal

Your ignorance is amazing. Did you actually LISTEN?

>
>>
>> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the 
>> line.
>
> and what are they passing?
>
> what vital message are they conveying?

Listen and learn.

-- 

  ... Hank

http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli




Article: 217024 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry Martes" <j.jmartes@verizon.net>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Message-ID: <aEFUe.1717$vQ3.940@trnddc08>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:31:34 GMT


<petercc@care2.com> wrote in message 
news:1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yes I would like an email address so I can see what you are talking
> about.
>
> I have the cable connector which connects to the main cable from  the
> proxim card fine. I am picking up the 20 foot cable and want an antenna
> that will minimize loss of the signal. I tried an existing omni antenna
> that is aboout 30" long and a long cable and the signal was
> nonexistant. With the short cable and that same antenna I was using, I
> got some hotspots tuned in.
>

  Hi Peter

  I sent you an E-mail.  Let me know here if it doesnt get to you.

  Do you have any specs on the "existing antenna"?    I havent seen any 
omniazimuth WiFi antennas that long.   It is likely that the 30 inch long 
antenna is *not* designed for 2.4 GHz use.

  Try to get some specs on the loss of the cable you are "picking up". 
Since I am not willing to accept the loss associated with coax at this 
frequency, I have resorted to either USB or CAT 5 rather than use coax from 
the antenna to the computer.

                      Jerry

 




Article: 217025 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:15:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com>

larry wrote:
> A lot of work.... I just hope this loop antenna system can be used in both
> transmit and receiver... (just my initial opinion)....

Full wave loops are quite different from small loops but both
can be used for both transmit and receive. As usual, transmit
is the challenge. A one-turn small loop works best if resonated
by a vacuum cap.

> Any further thinking on this subject... you have my attention...

The ARRL Antenna Book has some good information on the subject.
Single turn loops work well for transmitting. Multiple turn
transmitting loops have a nasty habit of disappointing the user.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217026 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Percival P. Cassidy" <Nobody@NotMyISP.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1QGUe.29145$ih4.20237@fe02.lga>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:52:30 -0400

On 09/09/05 05:30 pm an_old_friend tossed the following ingredients into 
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

> Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
> of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
> syaing they should but couldn't they.
> 
> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal

>>The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.

> and what are they passing?
> 
> what vital message are they conveying?

Several days ago I heard a message being relayed to police/hwy 
patrol/whomever about people trapped in an attic somewhere that needed 
to be rescued.

The latest ARRL eLetter reports that in some places hams were lending 
their equipment to "official" agencies because the latters' equipment 
did not work.

Remember that, in this "land of the 'We'll do it our own way, thank you 
very much'", many govt. agencies cannot communicate with each other by 
radio even when the equipment does work: every county and municipality, 
every fire dept. and ambulance service is free to decide what equipment 
to use regardless of what anybody else is using. I understand that 
Michigan is one of the few states with an integrated (or at least 
coordinated) radio system. Where multiple agencies are trying to work 
together, putting ham radio operators with each agency may be one of the 
few ways they have of keeping in touch.

"Perce"
(aka Alan NV8A)


Article: 217027 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfvg2g$nlg$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com>


It should be borne in mind the best form of radiator is just an
isolated straight length of wire. But curved or bent wires do almost
as good.

Loop antennas are nearly always single turn conductors and provide a
means of getting as much wire into space as possible with the largest
possible linear dimension being dependent on the size of your back
yard.  Or your attic.  Loops are space savers.

Subject to the space available, for a given perimeter, the larger the
area enclosed by a loop the better are its radiating properties and
its power efficiency.  However, when an antenna is already 80 or 90
percent efficient, there is seldom any point in attempting to improve
it.  100 percent is impossible. And to improve it to 95 percent
results only in an entirely imperceptible 0.2dB or 1/20th of an
S-unit.

Again considering space requirements, the physically smallest loops
are descibed as Magloops.  Magloops, not difficult to design, are the
most efficient of all small antennas of any type.

When the perimeter of a Magloop is only 1/3rd of a wavelength at the
operating frequency, efficiency can approach that of a full size
1/2-wave dipole.  The disadvantage of a small magloop lies in its
restricted range of operating frequencies. Three adjacent HF bands at
most. The cost of a vaccuum variable capacitor cannot be neglected.

But even at frequencies as low as 1.9 and 3.6 MHz, magloops with
perimeters as small as 1/15 wavelengths, diameters as small as 1/50
wavelengths, are quite usable in small backyards and attics. Expect
signal strengths 2 or 2.5 S-units worse than a full size half-wave
dipole. There are reports of improved signal to noise ratio on receive
although I have not experienced this myself.

For design of magloops at any HF frequency and any reasonable size of
loop, download program MAGLOOP4 from website below.

For performance of much larger horizontal loops, for use in your
backyard, download program RJELOOP4
----
Reg, G4FGQ.




Article: 217028 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <af44i11v0c7ctk7i01dt8622vg1u8uibc2@4ax.com> <1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <TLHUe.10445$FW1.3243@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:56:19 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Richard Clark wrote:
>> On 9 Sep 2005 14:30:13 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in 
>> >> > keeping
>> >> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>>
>> Mostly?  This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
>
> I have seencoverage of H&W traffic on the news
>>
>> >> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness 
>> >> > the
>> >> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>>
>> In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
>> abound.
>
> Cops dispatched by Ham radio? I don't think so
>>
>> >> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp 
>> >> > people
>> >> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
>>
>> Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely unaware
>> of what you have been saying all along.  That aside, and more to the
>> point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
>> half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after they
>> were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
>
> well that is news
>>
>> >But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
>> >thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
>> >CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
>> >I.
>>
>> From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
>> would be quite cosmopolitan.  Going beyond that however, such
>> suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
>> communications.
>
> Virgina? I don't live in Virgina
>
> but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being linked
> by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
>

Now the goof calls me a liar.  I have been sitting on HF for the last WEEK 
helping the shelters talk with each other.  Montgomery needs commo into 
places like the Gulf Coast,  Biloxi, Gulfport, and of course New Orleans. 
Get a flippin map and tell me how VHF/UHF is going to make those distances?

Montgomery is the capital city of Alabama.  Not what I would call a small 
town.

>>
>> >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
>> >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
>> >the level of critcal
>>
>> You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
>
> Auf Anglish Bitte?
>
>>
>> To Others,
>>
>> I've rummaged up at least a couple of dozen references to the Ham
>> activities from a variety of news outlets (and not just the bobbing
>> heads of salacious cable TV).  It would do us all well to stockpile
>> such commendations to "remind" authorities who so quickly forget in
>> the face of those who can stuff their pockets with money-for-airspace.
>
> Indeed we should, we should also make sure they are accurate
>>
>> 73's
>> Richard Clark, KB7QHC
> 




Article: 217029 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <qUHUe.9896$9i4.1896@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:05:26 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
>> "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > K4YZ wrote:
>> >> Mac wrote:
>> >> > Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>> >> >
>> >> > "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com...
>> >> > > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Charlie - AD5TH
>> >> > > www.ad5th.com
>> >>
>> >>      I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
>> >> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the 
>> >> patriarch
>> >> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face 
>> >> of
>> >> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
>> >> Amateur Radio.
>> >
>> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
>> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>> >
>> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
>> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>> >
>> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
>> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
>> >>
>> >>      Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
>> >> laid waste.
>> >>
>> >> 73
>> >>
>> >> Steve, K4YZ
>> >
>>
>> As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. 
>> Here
>> in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
>> Cross on the Gulf Coast.  They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
>> communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
>
> did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> thrower?
>
> But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> I.
>
> as to your other points.
>
> One am unable judge for myself directly of course because of rules you
> personaly have supported for years.
>
> Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
> of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
> syaing they should but couldn't they.
>

Sure they could.  And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be 
used also.  Or perhaps they could mail a letter.

> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal
>
Then I suggest you listen in and find out what is being passed.  I will be 
posting on rec.radio.amateur. policy the statements from the ARRL on this 
subject.  Perhaps that will help you to understand.

>
>>
>> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the 
>> line.
>
> and what are they passing?
>

Everything from relaying between shelters (because of poor conditions, or 
poor antennas or both),  helping various operators with finding links to 
other nets, Health and Welfare such as passing messages (at our expense) 
>from the disaster area to families of those in the area.  I personally 
participated in passing Emergency traffic from Huntsville AL to New Orleans 
Coast Guard about a family trapped in a house and needing their help. 
Additionally I relayed between a very weak HF station in New Orleans to 
Tallahassee Hospital to "tell the aircraft to come up on VHF".  I have no 
idea what that meant.  But I have no doubt it was important to someone.

I am just ONE operator doing what I can.  How about stop criticizing those 
that are.....you may learn something.

> what vital message are they conveying?
>>
>> Dan/W4NTI
> 




Article: 217030 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <af44i11v0c7ctk7i01dt8622vg1u8uibc2@4ax.com>   <1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126358707.445082.283000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <kWHUe.9897$9i4.9616@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:07:28 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> K4YZ wrote:
>> nobodys_old_friend wrote:
>> > Richard Clark wrote:
>> > > On 9 Sep 2005 14:30:13 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in 
>> > > >> > keeping
>> > > >> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>> > >
>> > > Mostly?  This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
>> >
>> > I have seencoverage of H&W traffic on the news
>> > >
>> > > >> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as 
>> > > >> > witness the
>> > > >> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>> > >
>> > > In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
>> > > abound.
>> >
>> > Cops dispatched by Ham radio? I don't think so
>>
>>      Then get your "believer" fixed, boyo.
>>
>>      It's happened before, it's happening now.
>>
>> > > >> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp 
>> > > >> > people
>> > > >> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all 
>> > > >> > along
>> > >
>> > > Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely unaware
>> > > of what you have been saying all along.  That aside, and more to the
>> > > point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
>> > > half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after they
>> > > were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
>> >
>> > well that is news
>> > >
>> > > >But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
>> > > >thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or 
>> > > >even
>> > > >CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better 
>> > > >than
>> > > >I.
>> > >
>> > > From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
>> > > would be quite cosmopolitan.  Going beyond that however, such
>> > > suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
>> > > communications.
>> >
>> > Virgina? I don't live in Virgina
>>
>>      Good thing, too.
> cuting you sex ramrks again
>> > but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being linked
>> > by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
>>
>>      "response"
>>
>>      Why?
>>
>>      You think that they only need to talk across town?
>
> that was the stated report
>>
>> > > >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
>> > > >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises 
>> > > >to
>> > > >the level of critcal
>> > >
>> > > You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
>> >
>> > Auf Anglish Bitte?
>>
>>      Cowardly avoidance.
>
> then you are a bigger coward stilll pretending you don't understand
> when it is convientant
>>
>>      Typical Mark Morgan.
>>
>> Steve, K4YZ
>
Just where did you get the notion that Montgomery only needed to talk across 
town?

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 217031 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:17:21 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dfvih1$ev$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <dfvg2g$nlg$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

A follow-on from the previous message -

As usual, I forgot to mention the website from which the programs
could be downloaded. It may be something to do with a bottle of fine
vintage Port I have recently opened.

Download MAGLOOP4 and RJELOOP4 from website below and make what sense
you can out of them.

Incidentally, the number 4 in each name is an indication of previous
programs of similar names through which programs have been improved or
diverted.
----
...........................................................
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
...........................................................




Article: 217032 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <af44i11v0c7ctk7i01dt8622vg1u8uibc2@4ax.com>   <1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126358707.445082.283000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <kWHUe.9897$9i4.9616@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126386571.077673.154380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <1aIUe.9902$9i4.6598@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:24:13 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126386571.077673.154380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
>> "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > K4YZ wrote:
>> >> nobodys_old_friend wrote:
>> >> > Richard Clark wrote:
>> >> > > On 9 Sep 2005 14:30:13 -0700, "an_old_friend" 
>> >> > > <konstans@hotmail.com>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > >> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in
>> >> > > >> > keeping
>> >> > > >> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mostly?  This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have seencoverage of H&W traffic on the news
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as
>> >> > > >> > witness the
>> >> > > >> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
>> >> > > abound.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cops dispatched by Ham radio? I don't think so
>> >>
>> >>      Then get your "believer" fixed, boyo.
>> >>
>> >>      It's happened before, it's happening now.
>> >>
>> >> > > >> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is 
>> >> > > >> > hellp
>> >> > > >> > people
>> >> > > >> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying 
>> >> > > >> > all
>> >> > > >> > along
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely 
>> >> > > unaware
>> >> > > of what you have been saying all along.  That aside, and more to 
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
>> >> > > half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after 
>> >> > > they
>> >> > > were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
>> >> >
>> >> > well that is news
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, 
>> >> > > >and
>> >> > > >thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS 
>> >> > > >or
>> >> > > >even
>> >> > > >CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better
>> >> > > >than
>> >> > > >I.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
>> >> > > would be quite cosmopolitan.  Going beyond that however, such
>> >> > > suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
>> >> > > communications.
>> >> >
>> >> > Virgina? I don't live in Virgina
>> >>
>> >>      Good thing, too.
>> > cuting you sex ramrks again
>> >> > but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being 
>> >> > linked
>> >> > by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
>> >>
>> >>      "response"
>> >>
>> >>      Why?
>> >>
>> >>      You think that they only need to talk across town?
>> >
>> > that was the stated report
>> >>
>> >> > > >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see 
>> >> > > >no
>> >> > > >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that 
>> >> > > >rises
>> >> > > >to
>> >> > > >the level of critcal
>> >> > >
>> >> > > You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
>> >> >
>> >> > Auf Anglish Bitte?
>> >>
>> >>      Cowardly avoidance.
>> >
>> > then you are a bigger coward stilll pretending you don't understand
>> > when it is convientant
>> >>
>> >>      Typical Mark Morgan.
>> >>
>> >> Steve, K4YZ
>> >
>> Just where did you get the notion that Montgomery only needed to talk 
>> across
>> town?
>
> from your statement obviously
>>
I never said any such thing.  I was talking about comms in/out of shelters. 
You think ALL the shelters are in one town?

Are you seriously this out of step with the rest of ham radio?  Seek mental 
health help.  You have been fixed,  right?   Please say yes.

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 217033 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <432365BC.26298500@tower_dude.com>
From: markus <tower_dude@tower_dude.com>
Subject: Re: Help Identify Tower manufacturer
References: <v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <jRyUe.74612$DW1.35802@fed1read06>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:01:17 GMT

Anyone know if the tower mfg. put any
data plates or other identifying markings
on these towers and sections ?





Article: 217034 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:01:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1126393478_8223@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>  <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>  <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  <1126361293.168132.184530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  <1126364471.656311.316620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126384472.396083.263930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

K4YZ wrote:
>      So...Amateurs created KATRINA just so we could "posture" in a
> newsgroup...?!?!

Someone interviewed on network news said today that it was
an "Act of God by George Bush's God". A couple of days ago
some followers of Allah were taking credit for it.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


Article: 217035 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <43236BFF.F90C9FB9@earthlink.net>
From: "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <qUHUe.9896$9i4.1896@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:29:54 GMT

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> 
> Sure they could.  And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be
> used also.  Or perhaps they could mail a letter.


   Sure they could mail a letter.  After the US postal service reopens
mail service to the affected areas.  There were notices on the USPS
website telling that next day, and some other mail services were not
available for the time being. 


-- 
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


Article: 217036 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <432372A7.100DD50A@earthlink.net>
From: "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: lf to HF preselector design needed
References: <9df4i1546l564jt5uc22lp8gva22v9qdgi@4ax.com> <8k35i11lmh2sdrn8re7g69gh6d3j8mkqo6@4ax.com> <8mu5i1tmjbj7ukge3ukij7pks785mp222r@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:58:21 GMT

TRABEM wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul,
> 
> My old Drake C line had a multiple ganged permeability tuned inductor
> mechanically coupled to a variable cap.
> 
> One of the assemblies tuned the front end, one peaked the driver
> stage, etc.
> 
> It covered from 1 Mhz to 30 Mhz with a half turn on the front panel
> preselector control. Most likely the variable C and L tuned together
> maintained a desirable Q across all the bands.
> 
> I was hoping for something similar, but have no idea where to get
> permeability tuned inductors today.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T


   Fair Radio used to have some in their catalog, and they were used in
all of the old Delco (and some other brands) car radios of the '60s and
'70s.


-- 
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


Article: 217037 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:29:27 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2005 10:42:15 -0700, petercc@care2.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>I tried an existing omni antenna
>>that is aboout 30" long and a long cable and the signal was
>>nonexistant. With the short cable and that same antenna I was using, I
>>got some hotspots tuned in.
> 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> This 30" antenna is easily ten times too long.  It will be very
> directional, and only if you point it (like a rapier) towards the
> transmitter.  As it stands, your favored direction is straight up.
> This, of course, is strictly counter to your stated desire for "omni."
> 
> Take a cue from the products offered for this class of communication.
> Their antennas are short for reasons that go beyond aesthetics.  Take
> heart that you are on the right path.  Antenna height (distance above
> you, not length) is always an advantage.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Which means it was a colinear.  It is long for a reason.

Similar antennas are vailable at CompoUSA and most other computer stores.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 217038 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:39:16 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126361293.168132.184530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126364471.656311.316620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126384472.396083.263930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1126385863.388711.272520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43237cb4$0$32199$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

an_old_friend wrote:

> 
> sure there are facts but it also a fact that i think you are an idoit
> but this sate of being a fact does not make it relavant
> 
> nothing your rant saying why the neds Dan was identifing culd not be
> met though other means


> 
> 250,00 is relitive small but the issue was never number but land area
> 

> more of you absurdity

You might be more credible if you could spell a bit better.  At least 
use a spell checker so you appear to be less of an idiot.

Of course, your arguments would still be suspect even if you did that.

tom
K0TAR



Article: 217039 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:10:00 -0700
Message-ID: <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Tom Ring wrote:
> 
> Which means it was a colinear.  It is long for a reason.
> 
> Similar antennas are vailable at CompoUSA and most other computer stores.
> 
> tom
> K0TAR

What you should look for is small plasic-encased bumps (each enclosing a 
coil) or obvious coiled sections spaced every few inches along the 
antenna's length. If it has those, it's probably a collinear like Tom 
says, and will be omnidirectional broadside to the antenna. If it 
doesn't, and is just a straight piece of wire or rod, it's directional 
nearly in the direction of the wire like Richard said.

Any reasonable sized coax will have a lot of loss per unit length at 
that frequency, so do everything you can to keep it as short as 
possible. Depending on the situation, putting the antenna might or might 
not help, if putting it higher necessitates making the feedline longer.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 217040 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: lf to HF preselector design needed
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:13:12 -0700
Message-ID: <11i715a1qscrc36@corp.supernews.com>
References: <9df4i1546l564jt5uc22lp8gva22v9qdgi@4ax.com> <8k35i11lmh2sdrn8re7g69gh6d3j8mkqo6@4ax.com> <8mu5i1tmjbj7ukge3ukij7pks785mp222r@4ax.com> <432372A7.100DD50A@earthlink.net>

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> 
>    Fair Radio used to have some in their catalog, and they were used in
> all of the old Delco (and some other brands) car radios of the '60s and
> '70s.

Just about all the radios I've seen with mechanical pushbuttons for 
station presets used permeability tuned inductors -- the pushbuttons 
each just positioned a ferrite core to a preset depth in a coil. It 
wouldn't be difficult to construct one, unless you're mechanically 
declined like I am.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 217041 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry Martes" <j.jmartes@verizon.net>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Message-ID: <aFLUe.1753$b37.122@trnddc04>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:22:14 GMT


"Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
news:43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> Richard Clark wrote:
>> On 10 Sep 2005 10:42:15 -0700, petercc@care2.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I tried an existing omni antenna
>>>that is aboout 30" long and a long cable and the signal was
>>>nonexistant. With the short cable and that same antenna I was using, I
>>>got some hotspots tuned in.
>>
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> This 30" antenna is easily ten times too long.  It will be very
>> directional, and only if you point it (like a rapier) towards the
>> transmitter.  As it stands, your favored direction is straight up.
>> This, of course, is strictly counter to your stated desire for "omni."
>>
>> Take a cue from the products offered for this class of communication.
>> Their antennas are short for reasons that go beyond aesthetics.  Take
>> heart that you are on the right path.  Antenna height (distance above
>> you, not length) is always an advantage.
>>
>> 73's
>> Richard Clark, KB7QHC
>
> Which means it was a colinear.  It is long for a reason.
>
> Similar antennas are vailable at CompoUSA and most other computer stores.
>
> tom
> K0TAR

  Hi Tom

  Isnt 30 inches a little too long for a colinear at 2.4 GHz?   I'd guess 
that the antenna that Peter has hooked up is a marine radio whip.   I'll be 
interested in reading more about what he is doing, and where the 30 inch 
long antenna came from.

                  Jerry





Article: 217042 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:46:54 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <43238c8e$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Roy Lewallen wrote:

> What you should look for is small plasic-encased bumps (each enclosing a 
> coil) or obvious coiled sections spaced every few inches along the 
> antenna's length. If it has those, it's probably a collinear like Tom 
> says, and will be omnidirectional broadside to the antenna. If it 
> doesn't, and is just a straight piece of wire or rod, it's directional 
> nearly in the direction of the wire like Richard said.
> 

You won't see that on these colinears, the radome surrounding them 
covers it up.  I am thinking they may be the coax style colinears, which 
would not have the coils.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 217043 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:50:09 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <aFLUe.1753$b37.122@trnddc04>
Message-ID: <43238d51$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Jerry Martes wrote:

>   Hi Tom
> 
>   Isnt 30 inches a little too long for a colinear at 2.4 GHz?   I'd guess 
> that the antenna that Peter has hooked up is a marine radio whip.   I'll be 
> interested in reading more about what he is doing, and where the 30 inch 
> long antenna came from.
> 
>                   Jerry

Well, he did specifically state WiFi, so I went with that.

And a colinear can be as long as you'd like, they just don't keep 
gaining gain very well after a certain point.

tom
K0TAR




Article: 217044 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:14:40 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126361293.168132.184530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126364471.656311.316620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126384472.396083.263930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126385863.388711.272520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <43237cb4$0$32199$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1126402494.029517.184900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43239310$0$22197$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

an_old_friend wrote:

> 
> and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
> already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
> many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
> 

Stupid is as stupid does.

tom
K0TAR




Article: 217045 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:16:15 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126361293.168132.184530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126364471.656311.316620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126384472.396083.263930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126385863.388711.272520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <43237cb4$0$32199$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1126402494.029517.184900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4323936f$0$22197$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

an_old_friend wrote:
> and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
> already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
> many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
>

And I have the balls to admit who I am.

tom
K0TAR



Article: 217046 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:16:18 -0700
Message-ID: <11i74rl9t428kcc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com> <43238c8e$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Tom Ring wrote:
> Roy Lewallen wrote:
> 
>> What you should look for is small plasic-encased bumps (each enclosing 
>> a coil) or obvious coiled sections spaced every few inches along the 
>> antenna's length. If it has those, it's probably a collinear like Tom 
>> says, and will be omnidirectional broadside to the antenna. If it 
>> doesn't, and is just a straight piece of wire or rod, it's directional 
>> nearly in the direction of the wire like Richard said.
>>
> 
> You won't see that on these colinears, the radome surrounding them 
> covers it up.  I am thinking they may be the coax style colinears, which 
> would not have the coils.
> 
> tom
> K0TAR

Ah, good points. I hadn't considered either a coaxial (Franklin) 
collinear or a radome. In that case, I can't think of an easy way to 
tell except by pointing the antenna in the direction of a known signal 
and seeing if it gets better (not a collinear) or worse (collinear). 
Unless, of course, the manufacturer and model number are known or visible.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 217047 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:52:49 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com> <43238c8e$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i74rl9t428kcc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <43239c01$0$32195$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Roy Lewallen wrote:

> Ah, good points. I hadn't considered either a coaxial (Franklin) 
> collinear or a radome. In that case, I can't think of an easy way to 

And why does the world spell colinear collinear?  It's not col-linear 
it's co-linear.  Makes no sense to me.

tom
K0TAR




Article: 217048 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:58:19 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com> <43238c8e$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i74rl9t428kcc@corp.supernews.com> <43239c01$0$32195$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <43239d4b$0$22202$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Tom Ring wrote:

> Roy Lewallen wrote:
> 
>> Ah, good points. I hadn't considered either a coaxial (Franklin) 
>> collinear or a radome. In that case, I can't think of an easy way to 
> 
> 
> And why does the world spell colinear collinear?  It's not col-linear 
> it's co-linear.  Makes no sense to me.
> 

For instance, we don't say colaxial cable.

tom
K0TAR



Article: 217049 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Mr Fed UP" <mrfedup@bellsouth.net>
References: <v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <jRyUe.74612$DW1.35802@fed1read06>
Subject: Re: Help Identify Tower manufacturer
Message-ID: <ubPUe.3326$zG5.1315@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:25:19 -0500

I don't know myself, but a couple of sources you might try would be
any local club or buddies that might have been told.  Or also check out
any QSL cards that might be around if any.  Often that info was/is
things to brag about ones station.  Wish I had one.  LOL
Might even have made some notes in a log book if that is still around.

Good luck. K4TWO  Gary


"Howard K0ACF" <howardk0acf@cox.net> wrote in message 
news:jRyUe.74612$DW1.35802@fed1read06...
> Looks like a Rohn HDX series. I had the HDX 48(48ft. tall) The HDX series 
> went to 64 ft. if I remember right.
> "Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE> wrote in 
> message news:v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I am attempting to identify the tower manufacture of the tower pictured 
>> at:
>> http://www.ppinyot.com/antenna.htm.    I would like to properly design a 
>> base for it given  the manufacturers specs plus perhaps pick up 
>> additional sections.
>>
>> The tower seems to be of a stamped steel design (not tubular) with 
>> stamped steel cross members.  It has been well maintained by the silent 
>> key's son. I gather it is about 10 to 15 years old.  There is an 
>> unpainted ladder chained to one side for storage. Please do not confuse 
>> this as part of the tower.
>>
>> Also if you happen to recognize the beam please Identify it too.
>>
>> Unfortunately some one discarded all the paper work not knowing it's 
>> value.
>>
>> Thanks Paul
>>
>> paul at ppinyot dot com
>>
>> KB3LZP
>>
>
> 




Article: 217050 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:39:19 -0700
Message-ID: <11i7np9ndnr9i5f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i70v9s8amrb94@corp.supernews.com> <43238c8e$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <11i74rl9t428kcc@corp.supernews.com> <43239c01$0$32195$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Tom Ring wrote:
> 
> And why does the world spell colinear collinear?  It's not col-linear 
> it's co-linear.  Makes no sense to me.
> 
> tom
> K0TAR

C'mon now, since when was English logical, in spelling, punctuation, 
grammer, or usage? You can't be too hard on a language in which slim 
chance and fat chance mean the same thing, and wise man and wise guy are 
nearly opposites.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
-- often rightly accused of being one of the latter of the latter


Article: 217051 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: how to model a loaded vertical ??
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:49:14 -0700
Message-ID: <11i7obsivh8u3c1@corp.supernews.com>
References: <NdOdnTG2y65pK77eRVn-vw@comcast.com>

To add to Tom's excellent explanation, let me add that you only need one 
wire to model the vertical. I suggest beginning with the Vert1.ez 
example antenna to get an idea of how it works. Look at the model with 
the View Antenna display. Then specify a load in wire 1, 50% of the way 
>from end 1. The load will appear in the View Antenna display as a little 
square. The Loads Window (where you specified the load) will show that 
the actual position is 55% of the way from end 1, which is the closest 
EZNEC could place it with the specified number of wire segments. If you 
change the number of segments to an odd number, EZNEC will be able to 
place the load exactly at the middle. You can specify other positions in 
the same fashion, but it might require more segments to get it really 
close to where you want.

Source and load positions are specified in exactly the same way.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

dansawyeror wrote:
> All,
> 
> I am trying to model a loaded vertical using EZNEC. It is fairly easy to 
> start with the vertical model and extend or shorten it. I also think I 
> created a load correctly. However I seem unable to connect the load to 
> the vertical segment. How can that connection be verified?
> 
> Also, what type of also load supports a second connection to a second 
> wire to simulate a mid load?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan


Article: 217052 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:54:41 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> Single turn loops work well for transmitting. Multiple turn
> transmitting loops have a nasty habit of disappointing the user.
> -- 
> 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
>
===================================

The reason a multi-turn maggloop of the same diameter would be
disappointing is because of increased loss in the loop conductor.

The ability to collect or radiate signals is a function only of the
diameter, ie., the longest linear dimension. Alternatively stated, a
function of the area enclosed.

With a single turn loop, conductor loss is due simply to skin effect.

With a multi-turn loop and the same amount of copper, proximity effect
comes into play and loss resistance increases faster than radiation
resistance.

Also, with a transmitting magloop, for the same power input, the
voltage across the tuning capacitor increases proportional to the
number of turns. Ridiculously high voltages appear.  Although, the
value of the capacitor in pF is very much smaller, the physical size
of the capacitor remains the same.
----
Reg.




Article: 217053 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 08:34:48 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <aFLUe.1753$b37.122@trnddc04> <43238d51$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <qs97i1dqnfkvvbtir925d6v9m7p8ge8481@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43243278$0$22208$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> And 30 inches (more than 6 wavelengths long?) would seem to have long
> met diminishing returns.  Given the prospects of it bobbing on the
> ocean, with a successively dipping and rising critical elevation gain
> - well that sounds like no kind of solution to a problem.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Well, you might think they would be, but the industry doesn't.  Here's a 
70 incher.

http://www.firstmilewireless.com/prod_ant2ov15-dt.html

And I agree, you'd need one of those fancy auto-leveling systems that 
Carnival Cruise Line uses to make it work on the water.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 217054 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 08:45:56 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: help with a marine antenna
References: <1126302613.449867.275680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9ypUe.138$R9.55@trnddc02> <1126374135.512629.189440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <m976i1tu0781jb7dtlmgjf97ou6u2mvrpi@4ax.com> <43237a67$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <aFLUe.1753$b37.122@trnddc04> <43238d51$0$32204$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <qs97i1dqnfkvvbtir925d6v9m7p8ge8481@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43243515$0$32194$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> And 30 inches (more than 6 wavelengths long?) would seem to have long
> met diminishing returns.  Given the prospects of it bobbing on the
> ocean, with a successively dipping and rising critical elevation gain
> - well that sounds like no kind of solution to a problem.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

And before anyone mentions the downtilt or polarization, here's a 
horizontally polarized one with no downtilt.  Unfortunately no pattern 
shown for this one, though.

http://www.firstmilewireless.com/prod_ant2oh13.html

tom
K0TAR


Article: 217055 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:06:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1126447773_9859@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com>  <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>  <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <1126415955.073587.239550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote:
> Can I drive a class E amp with an SSB signal?

You can but you won't like the results. :-)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


Article: 217056 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Harold E. Johnson" <w4zcb@mchsi.com>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com>  <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>  <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <1126415955.073587.239550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126447773_9859@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
Message-ID: <HsXUe.343816$xm3.223174@attbi_s21>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:48:07 GMT


"Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net> wrote in message 
news:1126447773_9859@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
> eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote:
>> Can I drive a class E amp with an SSB signal?
>
> You can but you won't like the results. :-)
> -- 
> 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Funny, Nate Sokal, who owned the patent thinks you can.

W4ZCB 




Article: 217057 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:48:48 -0500
Message-ID: <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

You seem to be exceedingly knowledgeable about loop antennas. I have limited 
space available for a 160 meters antenna. What advice do you have about a 
loop antenna for 160 meters constructed out of 3/4" copper pipe with an 
octagon shape, and a perimeter of 100 feet. The plane of the loop would be 
vertical with the bottom of the loop about one foot high. The loop would be 
fed at the bottom, and the remotely tuned series capacitor would be centered 
in the top side of the loop. Does this project seem doable and does it make 
sense?
John, N9JG

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> The reason a multi-turn maggloop of the same diameter would be
> disappointing is because of increased loss in the loop conductor.
>
> The ability to collect or radiate signals is a function only of the
> diameter, ie., the longest linear dimension. Alternatively stated, a
> function of the area enclosed.
>
> With a single turn loop, conductor loss is due simply to skin effect.
>
> With a multi-turn loop and the same amount of copper, proximity effect
> comes into play and loss resistance increases faster than radiation
> resistance.
>
> Also, with a transmitting magloop, for the same power input, the
> voltage across the tuning capacitor increases proportional to the
> number of turns. Ridiculously high voltages appear.  Although, the
> value of the capacitor in pF is very much smaller, the physical size
> of the capacitor remains the same.
> ----
> Reg.
>
> 




Article: 217058 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:17:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1126466410_10755@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com>  <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>  <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <1126415955.073587.239550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126447773_9859@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <HsXUe.343816$xm3.223174@attbi_s21>

Harold E. Johnson wrote:
> "Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net> wrote:
> 
>>eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote:
>>>Can I drive a class E amp with an SSB signal?
>>
>>You can but you won't like the results. :-)
> 
> Funny, Nate Sokal, who owned the patent thinks you can.

I'm assuming that "drive a class E amp with an SSB signal"
means an SSB signal on the input, i.e. linear amplification
is required. How does Mr. Sokal linearize the non-linear
characteristics of the Class-E amp? I'm not saying it can't
be done - but I don't know how to do it and there's no claim
of linear operation on any of the Class-E Amp web pages.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217059 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: how to model a loaded vertical ??
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:29:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1126467122_10775@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <NdOdnTG2y65pK77eRVn-vw@comcast.com> <11i7obsivh8u3c1@corp.supernews.com> <4324780B.9010904@comcast.net>

dansawyeror wrote:
> Thank you. I actually tried that as one experiment. The loads window 
> showed the connection as you described.

There's one point of caution. The lumped load function will
not accurately predict the phase shift through a real-world
coil. Many antenna designs use phasing coils. The lumped load
feature of EZNEC will not accurately model those antennas.
If phasing coils are used, the EZNEC helix option should
be used which does seem to model the phase shift through the
coil.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217060 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:33:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1126467397_10785@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com>  <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net>  <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com>  <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <1126415955.073587.239550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126447773_9859@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <HsXUe.343816$xm3.223174@attbi_s21> <1126466410_10755@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <_J6dnYLePZSyGLneRVn-iQ@crocker.com>

Dave wrote:

> "Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net> wrote:
>>I'm assuming that "drive a class E amp with an SSB signal"
>>means an SSB signal on the input, i.e. linear amplification
>>is required.
> 
> its only required if you want the output to sound like the input.  there are 
> lots of amplifiers on 27mhz and other bands where this is not a requirement. 

Well, maybe I presumed too much. I certainly wouldn't like it but
of course, I wouldn't force my likes and dislikes on everyone. :-)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 217061 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126361293.168132.184530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126364471.656311.316620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126384472.396083.263930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126385863.388711.272520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <43237cb4$0$32199$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1126402494.029517.184900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <43239310$0$22197$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <Nf0Ve.10359$9i4.10170@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:15:41 GMT


"Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
news:43239310$0$22197$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> an_old_friend wrote:
>
>>
>> and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
>> already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
>> many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
>>
>
> Stupid is as stupid does.
>
> tom
> K0TAR
>


And one thing about it....Ya just cain't fix stupid!!

Dan/W4NTI 




Article: 217062 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <qUHUe.9896$9i4.1896@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <43236BFF.F90C9FB9@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <Kg0Ve.10360$9i4.4123@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:16:42 GMT


"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:43236BFF.F90C9FB9@earthlink.net...
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
>>
>> Sure they could.  And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be
>> used also.  Or perhaps they could mail a letter.
>
>
>   Sure they could mail a letter.  After the US postal service reopens
> mail service to the affected areas.  There were notices on the USPS
> website telling that next day, and some other mail services were not
> available for the time being.
>
>
> -- 
> ?
>
> Michael A. Terrell
> Central Florida\

That was my point,  sir.

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 217063 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <af44i11v0c7ctk7i01dt8622vg1u8uibc2@4ax.com>   <1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126358707.445082.283000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <kWHUe.9897$9i4.9616@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126386571.077673.154380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1aIUe.9902$9i4.6598@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <zaOdnTs7KpKuCrneRVn-jw@gbronline.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <a21Ve.10383$9i4.5343@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:09:26 GMT

This is to 'an old friend' in particular and his dingaling buddies.

Perhaps this E-Mail I just received from the Alabama Section Emergency 
Coordinator will "HELP" 'an old friend' to understand.  Anyone want to bet?

Please notice the comments about using tactical and formal message handling. 
FYI tactical would be to dispense with the formal headings.  Just use the 
basic address/phone number.  Then the operator that received the message 
makes a phone call to deliver anywhere in the world that allowed 3rd Party 
traffic.

Formal should be self explainatory,  but knowing the abilities of Mr. 'an 
old friend'  I'll translate....It is using standard ARRL Formatted messages 
as in;

Number 139 W (Welfare) W4NTI CHECK 12 ANNISTON AL SEPT 10
TO  MR JAMES KIRK
       STARSHIP ENTERPRISE
       ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE  ZIP CODE
       PHONE NR
       BT
       ALL IS WELL HERE MR. SPOCK X HOPE
       TO SEE YOU SOON BT JAMES T. KIRK

   BT

NNNN  (MEANS NOTHING FURTHER) (USUALLY SENT IN CW OR DIGITAL MODES AND NOT 
USED IN PHONE)

You do notice the word 'sites' right?  That is plural for many locations.

I especially want your response to the paragraph concerning the highly 
vaunted 800 mhz system.  That FAILED immediatly.  Then please comment about 
the use of Hams to DISPATCH Police and Fire.  Not to mention the comment of 
how these same hams helped FIX these sites to attempt getting the Police and 
other Emergency agencies back on line.

Please also note that these Ham teams VOLUNTARILY PUT THEMSELVES into the 
middle of one of worst, if not THEY worst ecological disaster in this 
countries history.  Providing their own equipment, their own supplies, their 
own gas,  etc.   Note how much that is appreciated and does not ADD to the 
problem.

No bragging, no looking for headlines,  in fact NO NAMES AT ALL.  So tell me 
'an old friend'  where is all the bragging????????

I doubt this will do a bit of good with you and your 1/3 of the newsgroup 
that support you.  But these are the facts.  Believe it if you want.

OR.....just remove the egg off you face and drop the subject.

Dan/W4NTI

> Good morning Folks,
>
> I can't begin to tell you how awesome your response to Hurricane Katrina
> and the aftermath has been. The Tactical and Formal traffic handling as
> well as the overall professionalism, has truly been impressive.
>
> Those of you that have packed up and gone to the needed sites to operate
> in dismal conditions deserve all of our gratitude. You have made our state
> proud, and me too.
> For those who went but were turned around because of mis-communication,
> please accept my sincere apologies. With a half million people homeless,
> and hundreds of thousands without power, water and basic services, all of
> us in Emergency Services were simply overwhelmed. We're trying to get it
> right, and using the experience to make sure of a good plan should this
> magnatude of event ever happen again.
>
> This is what we have learned:
>
> The 800mhz and other trunked systems commonly used by local and state
> agencies, were the first to go in the hard hit areas. In many cases, we
> found Police and Fire units were dispatching from a car or HT. Even after
> two weeks, we still have hams handling All of the EOC and Public Service
> communications in a number of counties and Parishes on the coast. This is
> really hot gristly work. Many of the hams were able to repair the
> commercial antenna systems and bring some public services back online.
> Cell phones were out initally, but began to come up after a week, but many
> areas are still overloaded or spotty.
> The most valuable asset by far has been the totally self contained ham or
> team who went in with radios, generators, antennas, food, water, and
> sleeping bags. This is what everyone onsite began to ask for, and what we
> are running short of. Keep this in mind for a club or group project in the
> future.
>
> ARRL has set up a Clearing House for needed hams at
> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/agencies/.
> Also Greg W4OZK has beed working as Amateur Radio liaison at the American
> Red Cross Disaster Operation Center that has been set up in Montgomery.
> You can contact him at DR871-06RTT-RCO3@usa.redcross.org for placement.
>
> We are still looking at at least 60 days of operations that will require
> our assistance. Anything that you or your clubs can do will mean a great
> deal to those folks who still can't communicate with the needed agencies.
>
> 73's and God Bless, Jay Isbell KA4KUN ARRL Alabama Section Emergency 
> Coordinator
> ARES - ARES Mutual Assistance Team - ARES Rapid Response Team - "It's Not
> Just A Hobby Anymore"
>
>



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Article: 217064 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   <1126301413.743957.191760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <af44i11v0c7ctk7i01dt8622vg1u8uibc2@4ax.com>   <1126315066.262040.67480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <1126358707.445082.283000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <1126363970.820311.161670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <kWHUe.9897$9i4.9616@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1126386571.077673.154380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1aIUe.9902$9i4.6598@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <zaOdnTs7KpKuCrneRVn-jw@gbronline.com> <a21Ve.10383$9i4.5343@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Subject: What ham radio is doing with Katrina communications
Message-ID: <bl1Ve.10397$9i4.1433@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:29:43 GMT

For those of you that want to know what ham radio is doing with Katrina 
communications,  enjoy the read.

Dan/W4NTI





=================
The ARES E-Letter
Special Edition
September 11, 2005
 =================

Edited by Rick Palm, K1CE

===============================================================
ARES reports, other related contributions, editorial questions or
comments: Rick Palm, K1CE, k1ce@arrl.net
===============================================================

SPECIAL EDITION TWO: HURRICANE KATRINA FOLLOW-UP

It's been quite a week of studying the ARES response to Hurricane
Katrina while keeping a wary eye on storm Ophelia, just off shore
here in Flagler County, on the Florida central east coast. Local ARES
was on alert. We had winds and driving rain as Ophelia tried to
decide which way to turn. Yesterday, it marched to the northeast and
today we have an uneasy, almost surreal calm. But, the sky is clear.

Back to Katrina: I can't remember a more comprehensive ARES response,
especially in terms of inter-county and interstate mutual assistance,
plus the concomitant, unprecedented activity by ARRL HQ staff in
support of that response, ever. Even the Chief Operating Officer
Harold Kramer, WJ1B, worked over the Labor Day holiday weekend. And
word arrived yesterday that the "Hurricane Katrina Amateur Radio
Volunteers Needed Clearing House" now is live on the ARRL Web site
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/agencies/>. The ARRL Letter: "This
database will be the primary means for relief organizations requiring
Amateur Radio volunteers for communication support to list their
needs. Additionally, volunteers looking to help may search the
listings to match up their capabilities with the various
requirements." That is a first, as far as I know. Credit Joe
Tomasone, AB2M, for the Hurricane Katrina Disaster Communications
Volunteer Registration and Message Traffic Database he developed.

On the Northern Florida ARES Net this morning, a report was made that
"renegade" hams were turned away from an affected area and were to be
adorned with "metal bracelets" if they did not leave. Message:
Coordinate your volunteer efforts with your own home ARRL Section
Emergency Coordinator (SEC), or his/her designees. Also, be prepared
to be self-sufficient: "If you need it, you bring it," advised
Alabama SEC Jay Isbell, KA4KUN. - K1CE

"All of us know this will be a months-long effort. Just because we
are unable to immediately send those of you who have registered, that
does not mean we will not need you in the future. Your patience in
awaiting an assignment that may never come is appreciated. The
requirements are likely to change in the future; we are unable to
give any idea of when that will be." - Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, STX SEC

=====================================

IN THIS ISSUE:

+ Northern Texas Response
+ Louisiana
+ Mississippi
+ Alabama
+ South Texas
+ New Orleans
+ Northwest Harris County (Texas) ARES
+ Hillsborough (Florida) Ops Deployment
+ Interoperability Tip
+ On Responder Fatigue
+ Digital Outlets
+ Briefs
+ Response and Recovery HF Frequencies
+ Resource Links
+ Final Note and Prediction

======================================


+ NORTHERN TEXAS SECTION RESPONSE

The NTX Section had been on alert since Monday, August 29.  NTX SEC
Harris Swan, K5MWC, and STX SEC Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, had agreed early
on a plan to make effective use of NTX ARES members in response to
requests from the affected area. That plan was to prepare a list of
people volunteering to go if requested; Reimer would coordinate all
requests for assistance.

NTX ARES has primarily been supporting the West Gulf ARES Emergency
Net, dealing with H/W traffic, and supporting Red Cross, Salvation
Army, and FEMA. Several of the county EOCs requested support as they
anticipated operations with the large number of evacuees expected.

NTX will supplement resources in the affected area, provide support
to local shelter operations and support relief agencies in response
to their requests. The tempo will certainly pick up as time goes by;
NTX ARES is planning for long-term needs. -- NTX SEC Harris Swan,
K5MWC
______________________


The following is culled from a status report by the indefatigable
Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, South Texas SEC: Hurricane Katrina ARES
operations continue in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, North and
South Texas sections, using operators recruited from Louisiana,
Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Tennessee, Florida and other nearby
states and sections.

+ LOUISIANA

ARES continues to support Red Cross shelter and Southern Baptist
Convention debris-clearing operations in St. Tammany parish, where
disaster relief workers are housed and fed at the First Baptist
Church in Covington. In Washington Parish, ARES operators are
arriving to provide critical communication among hospitals and the
parish EOC. Over a dozen operators from Texas alone have traveled to
Louisiana.  Victoria County (Texas) ARES EC John Wagner, WA5VBP, flew
into the New Orleans airport where it was determined that his
assignment was unsafe; he was sent on to serve in Baton Rouge.

Communications among the field teams and the state EOC in Baton Rouge
continues using HF voice on 75 meters and 40 meters.  Surprisingly,
many VHF and UHF repeaters remained operational after the storm's
passing.  Louisiana SEC Gary Stratton, K5GLS, temporarily delegated
his authority to former SM Al Oubre, K5DPG.  Stratton will be working
on restoring the communications infrastructure.

In yesterday's ARRL Letter, Stratton was cited as saying Amateur
Radio was the only means for state officials at the state EOC in
Baton Rouge to communicate earlier this week with parishes above Lake
Pontchartrain. Also, there was a communication to the EOC from FEMA
that said, "Ham radio is our prime communications with you, and they
should get anything they need."

Reports also have ARES ops even loaning government agencies their
equipment.


+ MISSISSIPPI

The hardest hit areas are perhaps the counties closest to the Gulf
coast, especially Hancock and Harrison Counties.  ARES DEC Tom
Hammack, W4WLF, requested 25 ARES operators for critical
communication among EOCs, hospitals, and shelters.  ARRL Northern
Florida, West Central Florida and Southern Florida Sections are
sending self-sufficient teams to meet this urgent need, and a few
operators are coming from Arkansas.  Hammack said his operators are
sleeping on the floor where they are assigned. State RACES Officer
and ARES DEC Ron Brown, AB5WF, is working on a staging area for
Amateur Radio responders near the Mississippi Emergency Management
Agency (MEMA) in Jackson. Mississippi SM/SEC Malcolm Keown, W5XX,
received a replacement generator and now has telephone and Internet
service.

[In correspondence with Malcolm, he gave me an appreciation for their
mental status and what they are going through on the ground in
Mississippi: "At this point nobody has much time to document
activities.  Nobody at this point really has a clear enough mind to
put together a coherent story." -- K1CE]


+ ALABAMA

The state capitol of Montgomery was the scene of processing and
orienting Amateur Radio volunteers for Red Cross and other duty in
Louisiana and Mississippi.  Some volunteers will help support
communication at Red Cross shelters set up for evacuees, while others
will provide tactical communication for feeding stations or for
emergency management.  Alabama SM Greg Sarratt, W4OZK, has been
coordinating ham radio volunteers at the Montgomery site. - ARRL
Letter

+ SOUTH TEXAS

The Red Cross reports housing more than 142,000 people in 485
shelters in 18 states. Texas has over 230,000 people who fled.
Orange County ARES EC Rocky Wilson, N5MTX, has ARES operators
supporting seven Red Cross facilities that include distribution
centers and shelters.  Since being activated on August 27, 35 ARES
operators have provided over 1,200 person-hours, as operations
continue.  ARES groups from adjacent Jefferson and Polk Counties are
providing much-needed mutual aid.

ARES District 14 (Harris County) DEC Ken Mitchell, KD2KW, was
requested by the county emergency management office (HCOEM) to
provide four operators 24 hours per day, on-site at the Houston
Astrodome, and two at the county EOC, beginning September 1.  Since
then, more than 90 operators have provided over 720 person-hours of
direct communications support. All four county ARES ECs are
providing operators at both sites.

Managing the incoming health and welfare inquiry messages is
overwhelming nearly all NTS resources, especially at the local level.
 To mitigate this, Amateur Radio clubs have been asked to contact
nearby shelters as often as possible to pick up outgoing messages and
process them into the NTS by any available means.

At the request of the state Adjutant General's office, Travis County
ARES EC Don Dudley, AC5YK, facilitated National Guard in Waco with
communication with Guard elements at the Louisiana Superdome.

+ NEW ORLEANS

STX SEC Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, reports: "Amateur Radio operators are
beginning to be sent into areas around New Orleans to support command
and control operations for Red Cross and other disaster relief
operations.  The equipment requirement is VHF and UHF FM.  Portable,
hand-held and mobile stations are needed.  Conditions remain
primitive.  A pass is required from the Louisiana State Police for
access beyond roadblocks.  Similar requirements exist in Mississippi,
where the state EOC is located in Jackson."


+ NORTHWEST HARRIS COUNTY (TEXAS) ARES

>From Hal Merritt, KD5HWW, EC, Northwest Harris County (Texas) ARES:
"I have a few moments to breathe and share some notes. We have three
running missions: a deployment near Slidell, an operator in New
Orleans, and the local event.

The local mission consists of serving the mass shelters in Houston.
We saw rapid escalation, much more misinformation than information,
and a dynamic situation.  The core problem was one we've never seen
before: We had trained and drilled on mass evacuations, but not the
reverse (mass incoming evacuees). Our local resources were quickly
overwhelmed, and I pulled the trigger on our MOU with surrounding
county ARES groups.  I am now tasking hams from several counties, but
may be expanding my plea for operators statewide.  The problem is
that there is no lodging of any kind to be had.  Every hotel and
motel is completely full with evacuees.

There is ample local infrastructure, except housing.  The event is
running along the FEMA ICS (Incident Command System) and UC (Unified
Command) scripts. It may seem like chaos to the untrained eye, but it
is a thing of beauty to see it working so well.

Normally, an ARES response team would report to, and be tasked by,
the Liaison person of the FEMA Command Staff.  There, it might be
used as an ICS resource or tasked to Logistics for assignment to Task
Forces or Strike Teams.  Amateur Radio is not yet an official FEMA
Resource Type, but that is being worked on. In this event, the Harris
County OEM called us.  The EOC is attached to ICS under Logistics,
and that is how we fit into this event.  The ICS is on site at the
Astrodome complex.

The ARES response has two locations.  The first team is situated with
the EOC, providing communication for logistics (resource scheduling
and support of the Dome team). They are making entries into a master
event log, also.

The main effort is in the field, however.  We have teams of four to
six operators. There is a Team Leader who is in charge.  He/she is
responsible for on-site task assignments and for getting the relief
team quickly up to speed.  The Team Leaders are ARES AECs, or other
amateurs with large public service event experience.

We are running six-hour shifts.  No one is scheduled for more than
six hours, and they have only one shift per day.  Having seen what
happens when someone gets too tired, we would rather do without, than
have someone get hurt; or worse, get other people hurt.  Superheroes
need not apply.

The ARES leadership is focused on coordination.  Every possible task
is being delegated.  Although we are working 12-hour days, the real
action is with the Team Leaders and Net Controls.  No, things are not
being done exactly like we would have done it, but it is getting
done; and generally, with the highest degree of professionalism.
Every time I screw up, there seems to be a number of folks there to
beat me up and get the job done right.

Please relay my deepest gratitude to all that have stepped up to the
plate. - Contact Hal Merritt, KD5HWW, at
<hal.merritt@worldnet.att.net>


+ HILLSBOROUGH (FLORIDA) OPS DEPLOYED TO MISSISSIPPI MAKING A
DIFFERENCE FOR KATRINA SURVIVORS

Six trained communication volunteers from the Tampa Bay, Florida,
area (sponsored by the Hillsborough County EOC) have been in
Mississippi.  Using ham radio while awaiting their deployment with
state of Florida communications assets, they became one of the few
outlets for "I'm Alive" messages out of the area.  With local
operators in the affected area providing communications to local
police, fire, and search teams, there has been limited means of
transmitting H/W messages from the victims to their families outside
the disaster zone.

Members of the Hillsborough team have been visiting shelters and
feeding stations collecting messages from victims.  More than 100
messages have been transmitted from Gulfport to Tampa via the Tampa
Amateur Radio Club, and local hams in Tampa have been making
heart-breaking phone calls to loved ones across the country who had
no word for a week on the fate of their family members in
Mississippi.

The official mission of the Hillsborough team is to set up and
operate EDICs (Emergency Deployable Interoperable Communications
System), a fly-away computer-controlled communications system that
interconnects radios and cell phones of different frequencies and
types so that public service communication can be restored in a
disaster area. It allows the radios that survived to be put to use so
that police officers and firefighters can better coordinate recovery
operations.

The EDICs unit may be tasked to Stennis Space Center in Hancock
County, or to Keesler Air Force Base, Mississippi.  The team is to
deploy with Florida law enforcement teams staged in Gulfport. -- Pete
Kemp, KZ1Z, West Central Florida Section PIO

Gary Sessums, KC5QCN, member of the Hillsborough team writes: "Thanks
for the mention in the ARES newsletter about the Hillsborough County
ARES/RACES deployment. We are on site in Biloxi and Gulfport,
Mississippi.  We have passed over 100 H/W messages in addition to our
public safety tasking. We are on the MARS, CAP, and SHARES nets, in
addition to Amateur Radio.  I am trying to arrange relief for the
local ARES/RACES operators at the Harrison County EOC, as those guys
have been running non-stop since before the storm hit."


+ INTEROPERABILITY TIP

Watching in frustration at the breakdown of communications in the
Gulf coast response, I was made acutely aware of the viability of
Amateur Radio in terms of interoperability.  We have the ability to
change frequencies in our radios to serve the location and needs of
the area.

Mobile HF, VHF and UHF radios can be re-programmed on the fly. With
that in mind, one of the necessary contents of anyone's "grab and go"
equipment should be the manuals, or copies of specific pages, for any
radio they carry with them.

I also write down the necessary steps -- and only the necessary steps
-- to program and use the radio away from the manual.  I word process
the steps small enough so that I can laminate them as part of my
credentials lanyard.  As a backup, I put another credit-card-size
laminated copy in a wallet that I keep separate in a coat pocket or
in the cargo pocket of my trousers. -- Chuck Heron, KD7BWG, DEC, Gila
County ARES, Arizona, Executive Officer, Gila County EMCOMM
(ARES/RACES), <kd7bwg@arrl.net>


+ ON RESPONDER FATIGUE

>From Fred Leif, W6WTI: Thank you for putting out the special edition
ARES E-Letter. It is important that hams outside the impact and
support areas have a sense of the service that is being provided so
that we can help explain to our neighbors and the public the vital
role that Amateur Radio is playing.

Amateur Radio serves best while the communications emergency exists.
The full response and recovery from Katrina will take a very long
time, but when the response agencies and recovery teams have
established networks that meet their communications needs, the hams
should be allowed to stand down.  It will be difficult to determine
when this occurs, but the ARES leaders should keep an eye on this
ball.  We don't want "responder fatigue" to the extent that we can't
get operators for the next event.  Bringing our service to bear on
the communications emergency, and recognizing when it is time to step
aside is a vital management function.


+ DIGITAL OUTLETS

Louisiana SEC Gary Stratton, K5GLS, reports "We now have digital
(Pactor/Internet/WL2K) outlets for H/W traffic into the areas noted
below in Louisiana and Mississippi.  National Traffic System (NTS)
traffic can be sent to <ae5v@winlink.org>.  At the point that
destination traffic handlers feel they can take on all comers, the
directions to reach them will be shared. Louisiana towns and
parishes: St. Tammany, Abita Spring, Covington, Folsom, Lacombe,
Madisonville, Mandeville, Pearl River, Son, Slidell, Tangipahoa,
Amite, Hammond, Independence, Kentwood, Ponchatoula, Roseland,
Tangipahoa, Ticfaw, Terrebonne, Houma, Washington, Angie, Bogalusa,
Franklinton, Varnado. Mississippi Towns: Gautier, Ocean Springs,
Pascagoula. - Relayed by Benson Scott, AE5V


+ BRIEFS:

The Ohio Single Side Band Net (OSSBN) was to announce that H/W
traffic will be accepted.  OSSBN Net Manager Connie Hamilton, N8IO,
who is also an Assistant Section Manager, said conditions have
changed, allowing for a reasonable chance of traffic getting
delivered. -- Joe Phillips, K8QOE, Ohio Section Manager


+ HURRICANE KATRINA HF RESPONSE AND RECOVERY FREQUENCIES

The following frequencies and links are the courtesy of John Mayger,
W4DJ.  As far as net activity is concerned, I've been listening
primarily to the Gulf Coast ARES Net on 7285 kHz, and the SATERN Net
on 14.265 MHz, although I'm sure there are many other active nets.
Good propagation to the Florida east coast from those two nets have
allowed me to monitor their excellent, professional work. - K1CE

2802.4   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
3171.4   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
5136.4   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
5141.4   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
5211.0   USB  FEMA
5236.0   USB  SHARES Coordination Network
6859.5   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
7507.0   USB  USN/USCG hurricane net
7550.5   USB  American Red Cross Disaster (primary)
7698.5   USB  American Red Cross Disaster
9380.0   USB  USN/USCG hurricane net
10493.0   USB  FEMA
14396.5   USB  SHARES Coordination Network

AMATEUR HF GULF COAST HURRICANE NETS

3845.0 LSB  Gulf Coast West Hurricane
3862.5 LSB  Mississippi Section Traffic
3873.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3873.0 LSB  Louisiana ARES Emergency (night)
3873.0 LSB  Texas ARES Emergency (night)
3873.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES Emergency
3910.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES
3910.0 LSB  Louisiana Traffic
3923.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES
3925.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3925.0 LSB  Louisiana Emergency (altn)
3935.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3935.0 LSB  Louisiana ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB  Texas ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB  Alabama Emergency
3940.0 LSB  Southern Florida Emergency
3950.0 LSB  Northern Florida Emergency
3955.0 LSB  South Texas Emergency
3965.0 LSB  Alabama Emergency (altn)
3967.0 LSB  Gulf Coast (outgoing traffic)
3975.0 LSB  Texas RACES
3993.5 LSB  Gulf Coast (health & welfare)
3995.0 LSB  Gulf Coast Wx

7225.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7235.0 LSB  Louisiana Emergency
7235.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7235.0 LSB  Louisiana Emergency
7240.0 LSB  American Red Cross US Gulf Coast Disaster
7240.0 LSB  Texas Emergency
7243.0 LSB  Alabama Emergency
7245.0 LSB  Southern Louisiana
7248.0 LSB  Texas RACES
7250.0 LSB  Texas Emergency
7260.0 LSB  Gulf Coast West Hurricane
7264.0 LSB  Gulf Coast (health and welfare)
7265.0 LSB  Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN) (altn)
7273.0 LSB  Texas ARES (altn)
7280.0 LSB  NTS Region 5
7280.0 LSB  Louisiana Emergency (altn)
7283.0 LSB  Gulf Coast (outgoing only)
7285.0 LSB  West Gulf ARES Emergency (day)
7285.0 LSB  Louisiana ARES Emergency (day)
7285.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES Emergency
7285.0 LSB  Texas ARES Emergency (day)
7290.0 LSB  Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7290.0 LSB  Gulf Coast Weather
7290.0 LSB  Texas ARES (health and welfare)
7290.0 LSB  Louisiana ARES (health and welfare) (day)
7290.0 LSB  Texas ARES (health and welfare)
7290.0 LSB  Mississippi ARES (health and welfare)

14265.0  USB  Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN)
14300.0  USB  Intercontinental Traffic
14300.0  USB  Maritime Mobile Service
14303.0  USB  International Assistance and Traffic
14313.0  USB  Intercontinental Traffic (altn)
14313.0  USB  Maritime Mobile Service (altn)
14316.0  USB  Health and Welfare
14320.0  USB  Health and Welfare
14325.0  USB  Hurricane Watch (Amateur-to-National Hurricane Center)
14340.0  USB  Louisiana (1900)


+ RESOURCE LINKS

CAUTION: The links presented below are listed as possible resources
for ARES deployment teams.  THEY HAVE NOT BEEN VETTED BY ARRL. USE
AT YOUR OWN RISK.
-K1CE


Health and Welfare Inquiries can be submitted to:

Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network (SATERN)
<http://www.satern.org/>; for Health and Welfare inquiries after
hurricanes and other disasters <http://qso.com/satern/emailfrm.htm>.

American Red Cross (H/W Inquiries): 866-GET-INFO (866-438-4636)
American Red Cross donations and volunteering: 800-HELP-NOW
(800-435-7669)
<http://www.redcross.org>

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
(Individual Disaster Assistance): 800-621-FEMA (800-621-3362)
<http://www.fema.gov/>


Hurricane Katrina Survivor Lists and Information:

National Next of Kin Registration <http://www.nokr.org/>

Hurricane Katrina Survivors Online Forum and Survivor List
<http://www.hurricanekatrinasurvivors.com/main/>

CNN Hurricane Katrina Survivor List  <http://www.cnn.com/safe>

Globe Coast News Katrina Survivor List
<http://kenburtonne.web116.discountasp.net/Katrina/Status.aspx>

New Orleans <http://www.neworleans.craigslist.org>

WDSU-TV6 New Orleans TV Station <http://www.wdsu.com/news>

New Orleans Newspaper <http://www.nola.com>

Hurricane Housing Information for Victims
<http://www.hurricanehousing.org>


Links to Emergency Management and Related Sites:

<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutlinkem.html>

See also:

Florida Division of Emergency Management
<http://www.floridadisaster.org/>

Alabama Emergency Management <http://www.disaster.ema.alabama.gov/>

Alabama Homeland Security <http://www.homelandsecurity.alabama.gov/>

Louisiana State Emergency Information
<http://www.lsp.org/emergency.html>

Louisiana Homeland Security <http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/>

Louisiana Governor's Office <http://www.gov.state.la.us/>

City of New Orleans <http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx>

Mississippi Emergency Management <http://www.msema.org/>

Mississippi Emergency Management Emergency Line: 1-800-222-MEMA(6362)

Mississippi Homeland Security <http://www.homelandsecurity.ms.gov/>


Disaster Relief Organizations:

American Red Cross <http://www.redcross.org>

Salvation Army <http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/>

United Way <http://national.unitedway.org/>

Catholic Charities <http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/>

Operation Blessing (800) 436-6348 <http://www.ob.org/>

United Jewish Communities <http://www.ujc.org>

United Methodists Relief Committee
<http://gbgm-umc.org/umcor/emergency/hurricanes/2005/>

Episcopal Relief <http://www.er-d.org/>

America's Second Harvest (800) 344-8070
<http://www.secondharvest.org/>


+ FINAL NOTE AND PREDICTION

This special edition is released on the anniversary of the September
11 bombings that changed all of our lives.  As with the humanitarian
ARES response, then, it has been a privilege to monitor the
incredible ARES response to the current catastrophe.  Bravo to you,
the ARES field activists.

It was also inspiring to see Newington and other staff give up their
holiday and other time to support the ARES effort.  Bravo to them --
they are members of the HQ staff for all of the right reasons.

And now, the prediction: When the curtain is finally drawn on this
calamity, you will see Amateur Radio and ARES written -- or
re-written -- into a host of more governmental and non-governmental
organization plans for the future. Guaranteed. Mark my words on that
one.  Get your pens ready. - K1CE

======================================================================
The ARES E-Letter is published on the third Wednesday of each month
by the American Radio Relay League--The National Association For
Amateur Radio--225 Main St, Newington, CT 06111; tel 860-594-0200;
fax 860-594-0259; <http://www.arrl.org/>. Jim Haynie, W5JBP,
President.

The ARES E-Letter is an e-mail digest of news and information of
interest to active members of the ARRL Amateur Radio Emergency
Service (ARES).

Material from The ARES E-Letter may be republished or reproduced in
whole or in part in any form without additional permission. Credit
must be given to The ARES E-Letter and The American Radio Relay
League.

Editorial questions or comments: Rick Palm, K1CE, k1ce@arrl.net
Delivery problems (ARRL direct delivery only!): ares-el-dlvy@arrl.org

To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your address for e-mail delivery:
ARRL members first must register on the Members Only Web Site,
http://www.arrl.org/members/. You'll have an opportunity during
registration to sign up for e-mail delivery of the The ARES E-Letter,
W1AW bulletins, and other material. ARRL members may subscribe to The
ARES E-Letter by going to the Member Data Page at:
http://www.arrl.org/members-only/memdata.html?modify=1

Note that you must be logged in to the site to access this page.
Scroll down to the section "Which of the following would you like
to receive automatically via email from ARRL?" Check the box for
"ARES E-Letter (monthly public service and emergency communications
news)" and you're all set.

Past issues of The ARES E-Letter are available at
http://www.arrl.org/ares-el/. Issues are posted to this page after
publication.
======================================================================







Article: 217065 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:21:39 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>


"John N9JG"  wrote
> You seem to be exceedingly knowledgeable about loop antennas.
===================================
It's just the way I write it.
===================================
> I have limited
> space available for a 160 meters antenna. What advice do you have
about a
> loop antenna for 160 meters constructed out of 3/4" copper pipe with
an
> octagon shape, and a perimeter of 100 feet. The plane of the loop
would be
> vertical with the bottom of the loop about one foot high. The loop
would be
> fed at the bottom, and the remotely tuned series capacitor would be
centered
> in the top side of the loop. Does this project seem doable and does
it make
> sense?
> John, N9JG
=======================================

It makes good sense. Depending on your resources there will be
mechanical problems to solve. The weight of the large value,
motor-driven tuning capacitor, plus that of copper pipe will need
supporting.  Plastic guy ropes may be needed. And ideally the whole
thing should be manually rotateable through 90 degrees.

Electrical comment :  Do NOT cut the copper pipe to feed it at the
bottom of the loop. The balanced feedpoint  input impedance will be
extremely small and impossible to match efficiently.

The best method of feeding is via a small loop of wire inside the main
loop in the same plane. The small loop is approx 1/5th of the diameter
of the main loop and is insulated from the main loop.  The small
coupling loop is just a self-supporting wire between the inner and
outer conductors of a 50-ohm coaxial feedline and can be located at
the bottom of the main loop.

Compared with main loop diameter, the 1-foot height of loop above
ground is very low.  Loss in the ground will be rather high. Try to
obtain a height of 6 feet for a not very great improvement.

With a perimeter of 100 feet, on 160 meters performance will be about
1 S-unit worse than a 1/2-wave dipole. On 80 meters performance will
be about the same as a full-size 1/2-wave dipole at the same height.
The perimeter is too long to work on 40m.

Further performance details can be obtained from program MAGLOOP4 from
website below.
---- 
...........................................................
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
...........................................................




Article: 217066 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Wayne P. Muckleroy" <wmuckleroy2@neo.rr.com>
References: <v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com>
Subject: Replacement Antenna $10
Message-ID: <ML2Ve.8432$ib1.863@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:06:20 GMT

Here is the link for a site offering replacement antennae for about $10. For 
the price, you may just decide this will make your job a lot simpler.

http://www.weisd.com/store2/12301.html

Wayne-
(KC8UIO)

"Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message 
news:v-GdnY0p_OgYU73eRVn-1w@rogers.com...
> Hi there
>
> What is the best type of "wire" for making a homemade car antenna to pick 
> up FM radio. Is it copper? Aluminium? What thickness or size. Lenght?
>
> Thanks!
> 




Article: 217067 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Wayne P. Muckleroy" <wmuckleroy2@neo.rr.com>
References: <1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Typical Leakage Calculation
Message-ID: <EI3Ve.8446$ib1.6720@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:11:16 GMT

The RF power at 2W is about +33 dBm. The cable's connector ends are the most 
likely place for RF leakage to occur, as it is with the termination's 
connector. Suppose the leakage is 80dB. That would make the radiated power:

P = +33dBm - 80dB = -47dBm
(This is right at the connector site.)

The field intensity goes as the reciprocal of the radius squared. Since -47 
dBm is about 20 nW and power in Watts implies MKS units,

P (at 100 feet) = 20 nW divided by (30)squared,

since 100 feet equals approximately 30 meters.

This is about 20 pW or -77dBm.

A good receiver can detect down to -120 dBm (I think).

The field strength of -77 dBm is well within the sensitivity of a good 
receiver of -120 dBm.

The short answer is that to detect signals 100 feet away is a likely event 
with a typical termination load.

"CD" <mr.whatever@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1126098596.599662.122930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm curious about dummy loads. I read that ideally dummy loads convert
> RF energy into heat, but I'm sure in the real world, there will still
> be a small amount RF energy transmitted.
>
> My friend tried using a dummy load on a 300W transmitter. He was only
> running it for a few mins at the VHF range, but he was picking up a
> signal 100 ft away. Is that typical?
>
> What's your experience on dummy loads? Were you able to pick up a
> signal, as well, with this type of distance?
>
> I don't know much about dummy loads, but I think that 100ft is just a
> tad bit too far, no?
> 




Article: 217068 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:52:28 -0500
Message-ID: <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Thanks a lot for your advice. I would like to use the loop on 80 meters 
also, but I thought that the self-resonant frequency of a 100 feet perimeter 
loop would be too low for the loop to be resonated on 80 meters with a 
series capacitor.

Also, from reading some material in the ARRL 20th edition Antenna Book, I 
noticed that Ted Hart, W5QJR, used a gamma-matching arrangement to feed his 
loop. If a small interior loop is used to feed the main loop, are capacitors 
needed to couple the coax feed line to the small loop? Hopefully, these 
capacitors would not need to be changed after the initial setup procedures 
have taken place.

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
[additional text]
>The best method of feeding is via a small loop of wire inside the main
>loop in the same plane. The small loop is approx 1/5th of the diameter
>of the main loop and is insulated from the main loop.  The small
>coupling loop is just a self-supporting wire between the inner and
>outer conductors of a 50-ohm coaxial feedline and can be located at
>the bottom of the main loop.
[additional text]
> With a perimeter of 100 feet, on 160 meters performance will be about
> 1 S-unit worse than a 1/2-wave dipole. On 80 meters performance will
> be about the same as a full-size 1/2-wave dipole at the same height.
> The perimeter is too long to work on 40m.
>




Article: 217069 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <4324E0BD.A033E1A@earthlink.net>
From: "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:57:46 GMT

"LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote:
> 
>    The disaster of hurricane Katrina is of unparalleled proportions
>    and ALL humane-thinking citizens can do their part, however big,
>    however small.


   And then, there are the morons and bigots:
<http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>


-- 
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


Article: 217070 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:32:31 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>

John,

The highest operating frequency of a magloop occurs when the tuning
capacitor is set to minimum or zero and the circumference of the loop
is approximately 1/2-wavelength. That's rather obvious.

100 feet circumference = 30 metres. So greatest working frequency is
150 / 30 = 5 MHz.

A small coupling loop is far and away the best method of feeding a
magloop. Nothing could be mechanically more simple. There are no
additional components and the loop is isolated from the main loop.
Furthermore its diameter for a good impedance match to 50 ohms tends
to be independent of operating frequency. The wire diameter of the
coupling loop need be no larger than that of the inner conductor of
the coaxial feedline to which it is connected.

I've never heard of Ted Hart.  But, of course, a gamma match will
work. However the direct connection to the main loop unbalances it and
encourages radiation from the feedline. In comparison with a small
coupling loop it is also mechanically complicated.
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 217071 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <313030303837383543232DCF97@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:02:39 +0100
From: Dave Piggin <d.piggin@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Corrosion on aluminum antenna
References: <24snh19iu141gghh6iamqv9peh8q7649gd@4ax.com> <0v-dnX_XAvtEJoLeRVn-rA@comcast.com>


I just bought a very old, vertical antenna.  The ant. is aluminium
andvery corroded.
 Is this just a cosmetic problem, or will the corrosion affect the
radiation/reception of RF?
Since the insulation on wire antennas doesn't affect their
effectiveness, I'm thinking the corrosion wouldn't be a problem; but my
working-class logic has gotten me in trouble before. <G> Will painting
an aluminium antenna decrease it's effectiveness, or not
matter? Thanks

> Bob -

> If you wish to clean the aluminium - lye (NaOH) is often used -
> however this 
> is a caustic agent - and usual precautions should be used if you use this 
> approach.  There are also aluminium cleaners available at your local auto 
> supply stores.

> Although some amateur use steel wool pads -- this can leave steel
> slivers on 
> the aluminium tubing that can oxidize (rust) - I refer non metallic
> scrubbing 
> pads if you need some elbow grease.

Hmm. Grey matter being a bit thin now, and about 40 years since I was at
school, but doesn't caustics on aluminium cause dangerous gases? Better
to use a scotch bright pad and an agent like Brasso (English name for
Brass cleaner compound) Once you've tin worm it's hard to stop the
oxydization. Your main priority is making sure the antenna has no
weaknesses in the wall thickness so that it's safe and will not bend.
Painting should have no detrimental electrical effects providing the
paint has no metalic compounds in it, but surly painting is just hiding
defects!! A previous posting asked about using stainless steel fixings
on aluminium, this causes an electrolitic conversion between the two
metals, not quite a good combination especially if you've shelled out
mega bucks for a decent antenna. After a few years in the air without
inspection you's be in for a big surprise.
Cheers from England. Dave

-- 
Amateur Radio Call Sign M1BTI, Located in Manchester England. 
Locator square IO83TK
Chairman Of Trafford Radio Club. Club Call Signs G0TRG & M1BBP
Located at Umist, University Of Manchester Institute For Science And
Technology
Share What You Know, Learn What You Don't.


Article: 217072 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:59:17 -0500
Message-ID: <dg3u33$rp7$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Thanks again, Reg. You can be sure I am printing out your comments and 
storing them in my loop project folder. I will also be perusing your web 
site http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/
I will need some info on size and placement of the coupling loop.

Regarding Ted Hart, W5QJR, there is some information about him at 
http://www.nab.org/conventions/radioshow/2003/participantbio.asp?id=10459
A Google search on Ted-Hart Loop-Antenna finds about 100 hits.

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> John,
>
> The highest operating frequency of a magloop occurs when the tuning
> capacitor is set to minimum or zero and the circumference of the loop
> is approximately 1/2-wavelength. That's rather obvious.
>
> 100 feet circumference = 30 metres. So greatest working frequency is
> 150 / 30 = 5 MHz.
>
> A small coupling loop is far and away the best method of feeding a
> magloop. Nothing could be mechanically more simple. There are no
> additional components and the loop is isolated from the main loop.
> Furthermore its diameter for a good impedance match to 50 ohms tends
> to be independent of operating frequency. The wire diameter of the
> coupling loop need be no larger than that of the inner conductor of
> the coaxial feedline to which it is connected.
>
> I've never heard of Ted Hart.  But, of course, a gamma match will
> work. However the direct connection to the main loop unbalances it and
> encourages radiation from the feedline. In comparison with a small
> coupling loop it is also mechanically complicated.
> ----
> Reg, G4FGQ
>
> 




Article: 217073 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Wayne P. Muckleroy" <wmuckleroy2@neo.rr.com>
References: <1126515298.630189.25210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Attention Lloyd!
Message-ID: <hzfVe.8704$ib1.8214@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:40:29 GMT

Here's your chance, man...don't blow it.

"Allen" <sythugh232@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1126515298.630189.25210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> We may set something up! I saw you by accident and I'm interested in
> you!!!!
> http://h-otlonely-girls.tripod.com
> 




Article: 217074 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:10:41 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg4cqh$e4l$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg3u33$rp7$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>

John,

In principle, the coupling loop can be located in the same plane and
anywhere within the main loop. So it is most convenient to locate it
at the bottom of the main loop within an inch or two of the main loop.

But make no direct connection between the two loops or between the
coax and the main loop. There has to be some sort of support for the
coax and coupling loop. So you can make use of the insulating jacket
of the coax feedline and sticky insulating tape. If any other
supporting insulating materials are needed any plastics will do.

You can, of course, make a beautiful engineering job out of it which
you can be proud of.  But, radio-wise, the antenna will not work the
slightest bit better. ;o)

A comment about a motor-driven variable capacitor at the top of the
main loop. To allow the main loop to maintain self-balance about
ground, insert a multi-wire choke in the control wires and any other
wires feeding the motor. Or whatever form the motor may take.

Remember, the main loop should be allowed to take up its own natural
balance about ground to reduce "radiation from the feedline."

In the case of magloops, radiation from the feedline is a matter of
loss of radiation from the antenna.  Waste not, want not!
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 217075 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:02:54 -0500
Message-ID: <dg4fsc$6j9$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg3u33$rp7$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg4cqh$e4l$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

This information will same me a lot of effort and mental anguish as I 
proceed with my loop project. Thank you for your help.
-- John, N9JG

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:dg4cqh$e4l$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> John,
>
> In principle, the coupling loop can be located in the same plane and
> anywhere within the main loop. So it is most convenient to locate it
> at the bottom of the main loop within an inch or two of the main loop.
>
> But make no direct connection between the two loops or between the
> coax and the main loop. There has to be some sort of support for the
> coax and coupling loop. So you can make use of the insulating jacket
> of the coax feedline and sticky insulating tape. If any other
> supporting insulating materials are needed any plastics will do.
>
> You can, of course, make a beautiful engineering job out of it which
> you can be proud of.  But, radio-wise, the antenna will not work the
> slightest bit better. ;o)
>
> A comment about a motor-driven variable capacitor at the top of the
> main loop. To allow the main loop to maintain self-balance about
> ground, insert a multi-wire choke in the control wires and any other
> wires feeding the motor. Or whatever form the motor may take.
>
> Remember, the main loop should be allowed to take up its own natural
> balance about ground to reduce "radiation from the feedline."
>
> In the case of magloops, radiation from the feedline is a matter of
> loss of radiation from the antenna.  Waste not, want not!
> ----
> Reg, G4FGQ
>
> 




Article: 217076 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Carl / W6VDC <carl.hixon@cox.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>	   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126296865.329405.72430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4324E0BD.A033E1A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:10:08 -0700


>    And then, there are the morons and bigots:
> <http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>

I looked at the link and read a couple of the articles.  I didn't see 
anything that warranted labelling them bigots.  I don't think that the 
HOA took the proper position, but that doesn't make them bigots.


Article: 217077 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Steven Fritts <w4sef@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Full Wave Loop Question
Message-ID: <jalbi19nerau89mih6i17311b4svb5n963@4ax.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:45:45 -0400

Hi all,

I am thinking of building a full wave loop for 17 meter ham band. What
I plan to do is to build a cross shaped form...then run wire approx
12.7 ft on each side....then hang the antenna vertically from a tree
or mount it on a support 30-40 ft up with the V point of the antenna
straight up with the other "V" point straight down. In other words the
antenna will look like a diamond hanging vertically in the air. If I
feed the antenna at the bottom V with ladder line, one lead on each
leg, how will this antenna perform? The antenna wire wil be seperated
at the bottom point-not tied together. Will it have any gain? I am
sure there will be directivity broadside to the antenna.Thanks for any
help.

Steve W4SEF


Article: 217078 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: SGC model SG-230 SmartTuner - Automatic Antenna Tuner on ebay
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:25:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1126556863_26291@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126546479.518719.264230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

wmtell@gmail.com wrote:
> I have listed a NEW SGC SG-230 SmartTuner on ebay.  As you most likely
> know, this is the ultimate automatic antenna tuner.

Ultimate? The SG-230 has known software problems that the
SGC people refuse to correct. I have one of them.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 217079 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Power Amplifiers
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:26:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1126556955_26293@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126279011_1471@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <wJednTmBu-OxN7zeRVn-qQ@web-ster.com> <1126281356_1525@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dfsqjn$4fd$1@engnntp2.cig.mot.com> <1126359392_6087@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <Er-dnQwu5NI8WrjeRVn-vQ@comcast.com>

Tam/WB2TT wrote:
> Have you considered the possibility that he might have the data for 25 Ohms 
> and 100 Ohms interchanged?

Nope, I accepted his data at face value and am looking
for an explanation.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 217080 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Full Wave Loop Question
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:29:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1126557099_26295@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <jalbi19nerau89mih6i17311b4svb5n963@4ax.com>

Steven Fritts wrote:
> Will it have any gain?

Not over a dipole at the same maximum height.
Lots of gain over a 1/4WL vertical. :-)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 217081 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
Message-ID: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:39:23 -0500

Hi all.

Throwing together a 20m single quad loop (triangular) antenna. In the 
past I have fed these with a 75r Q section. Nothing strange here.. I use 
to coil up most of it in a 5" coil to help reduce the line radiation 
problem - if any... No tuner in use..

This time however I am going to use two pieces of 50 ohm coax in 
parallel giving a 100r balanced Q section feeder. This more closely 
matches the loop Z. The shields are joined together at each end of the 
section and the coax centre conductors become the two antenna connection 
points.

Question;

Should I be worried about inbalance in the 50 ohm cable from the radio 
to the Q section. ie does the Q section reduce any of that problem? If 
that isnt the case I can make up the usual coil of coax before it meets 
the Q section.. or can I coil up the Q section instead.

I also wonder about Q section shield grounding as I hadnt intended 
grounding either end. Will this be an issue?

Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA


Article: 217082 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Anchor <anchorelectronics@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: SGC model SG-230 SmartTuner - Automatic Antenna Tuner on ebay
Message-ID: <pan.2005.09.12.21.32.44.558485@sympatico.ca>
References: <1126546479.518719.264230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126556863_26291@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:32:45 -0400

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:25:04 -0500, Cecil Moore wrote:

> wmtell@gmail.com wrote:
>> I have listed a NEW SGC SG-230 SmartTuner on ebay.  As you most likely
>> know, this is the ultimate automatic antenna tuner.
> 
> Ultimate? The SG-230 has known software problems that the
> SGC people refuse to correct. I have one of them.

Mine packed up.  Four years of pactor email did it.

Apply RF power and the relays chatter never settling down to a tuned
configuration.  It does this regardless of whether I am trying to load up
an antenna or a dummy load.

We have been playing with PIC's lately.  I wonder if it is worth while to
use a PIC and the relay switched inductors and capacitors to make a make a
home brewed automatic tuner. PIC frequency counter software is all over
the net.  Something like a 16F870 has five 10-bit A2D's.  That's about all
one would need to make an automatic tuner from a broken SG-230.


Article: 217083 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Roger Leone" <raleoneTAKEOUT@sbcglobal.net>
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
Message-ID: <tKnVe.3877$6e1.2237@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:58:33 GMT

> This time however I am going to use two pieces of 50 ohm coax in
> parallel giving a 100r balanced Q section feeder. This more closely
> matches the loop Z. The shields are joined together at each end of the
> section and the coax centre conductors become the two antenna connection
> points.

Bob:

My math says that 2 sections of 50 ohm coax in parallel makes a 25 ohm
feeder, not a 100 ohm feeder.  Also, if your intention is to use the 2 coax
center conductors to connect to the loop feedpoint, where will the
differential mode currents which are necessary at the feedpoint come from?
And if you don't connect the coax shields to something at the feedpoint,
where does the current flowing in the shield go?

Your idea sounds something like the DK7ZB match for yagi antennas:
http://www.qsl.net/dk7zb/dk7zb-match.htm  It allows matching the
approximately 12.5 ohm feedpoint of a yagi to be matched to a 50 ohm
feedline.  Note that the coax shields at both ends of the Q section are
connected to something.

Roger K6XQ








Article: 217084 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <tKnVe.3877$6e1.2237@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <olghv2-js4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:47:35 -0500

Hi Roger

Okay bad choice of words. Try series... With the centre conductor of 
both coaxes joined at each end you do indeed get 25 ohms.. "Parallel" 
was more a case of describing the physical rather than electrical layout.

When you connect just the shields you effectively have a 100 ohm 
balanced but shielded feeder with the two centre conductors being the 
"real" transmission line. Also apparently good for placing inside a 
metal pipe without it affecting the transmission system - but I am not 
doing that.

And where the 50 ohm coax from the radio joins the bottom of the Q 
section its shield goes to one wire and the centre conductor to the other.

Okay?

Roger Leone wrote:

> 
> My math says that 2 sections of 50 ohm coax in parallel makes a 25 ohm
> feeder, not a 100 ohm feeder.  Also, if your intention is to use the 2 coax
> center conductors to connect to the loop feedpoint, where will the
> differential mode currents which are necessary at the feedpoint come from?
> And if you don't connect the coax shields to something at the feedpoint,
> where does the current flowing in the shield go?


Article: 217085 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <5uubi157qdbqjc5dhgjc5u1aa49mg7mnqs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <q4ghv2-tr4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:38:34 -0500

The modelled Z is around 140 ohms. The "top" element of the loop is 
about 20% longer than the other two. It is starting to approach a folded 
dipole.

Bob

Wes Stewart wrote:
> I have a question, Why?
> 
> The loop Z is going to be in the neighborhood of 120 ohm. A 75 ohm Q
> section is a better deal than 100 ohm.


Article: 217086 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net>
References: <jalbi19nerau89mih6i17311b4svb5n963@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Full Wave Loop Question
Message-ID: <rLoVe.123$Nw6.80@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:09:31 -0400

Hang a closed loop 5% longer in back of it and one 5% shorter in front, and
you'll hava a quad.

"Steven Fritts" <w4sef@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jalbi19nerau89mih6i17311b4svb5n963@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I am thinking of building a full wave loop for 17 meter ham band. What
> I plan to do is to build a cross shaped form...then run wire approx
> 12.7 ft on each side....then hang the antenna vertically from a tree
> or mount it on a support 30-40 ft up with the V point of the antenna
> straight up with the other "V" point straight down. In other words the
> antenna will look like a diamond hanging vertically in the air. If I
> feed the antenna at the bottom V with ladder line, one lead on each
> leg, how will this antenna perform? The antenna wire wil be seperated
> at the bottom point-not tied together. Will it have any gain? I am
> sure there will be directivity broadside to the antenna.Thanks for any
> help.
>
> Steve W4SEF




Article: 217087 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:40:14 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: SGC model SG-230 SmartTuner - Automatic Antenna Tuner on ebay
References: <1126546479.518719.264230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126556863_26291@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <pan.2005.09.12.21.32.44.558485@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <43261fee$0$32207$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Anchor wrote:

> Mine packed up.  Four years of pactor email did it.
> 
> Apply RF power and the relays chatter never settling down to a tuned
> configuration.  It does this regardless of whether I am trying to load up
> an antenna or a dummy load.
> 
> We have been playing with PIC's lately.  I wonder if it is worth while to
> use a PIC and the relay switched inductors and capacitors to make a make a
> home brewed automatic tuner. PIC frequency counter software is all over
> the net.  Something like a 16F870 has five 10-bit A2D's.  That's about all
> one would need to make an automatic tuner from a broken SG-230.

My experience with an LDG Z11 has been very much unlike that.  They make 
  several models, including one that will handle a kilowatt.  The Z11 I 
have was intended for QRP with a maximum of 60 watts.  I can't tell you 
how the other models will work, but they are all based on the same 
microcontroller (I think) and base software, so my guess is that they 
will perform equally well.

I bought my Z11 as a kit, and it was a well done one.  As good as any 
Heathkit.  Doesn't look like they sell kits any longer.

The web site is www.ldgelectronics.com.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 217088 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jack" <Jack@home.net>
References: <1126268474.457608.134880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: K!MAN Has a Case ...
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:21:59 -0400
Message-ID: <78c58$432629bb$8b3702ec$30383@ALLTEL.NET>

Has a case?  Of Hemoroids maybe?

Otherwise the feds are gonna fry him nowdays!
"Morris" <Sherins@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1126268474.457608.134880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> He's crossed the line numerous times: doing foreign policy, defaming
> Riley Hollingsworth, going commercial.  But he has a case.
>
> When Ervin Duggan was FCC Chief Commissioner in the 80s, Baxter
> received two NALs similar to the present.  Dutifully, he spent a great
> deal of time on his response, serving same on the FCC by regular mail.
> When the mail was "lost," Baxter resorted to Federal Express with no
> better result.
>
> So, here was an agency, pre-Hollingsworth, that had issed two NALs and
> had purposely sandbagged K1MAN's answer -- with good reason.
>
> In his answer, Baxter cited two documents of probative value.  One was
> a letter to Kenneth Black of Ulmerton, UK, responding to his complaint,
> that gave K1MAN's operation a clean bill of health, equating it to W1AW
> bulletins.  It was signed by Robert McNamara, Chief of the FCC,
> then-Private Radio Bureau.
>
> The other was a declaratory order on the subject of the length of
> Information Bulletins with a footnote that referred to W1AW published
> schedules.  The essence of the order was, information bulletins cannot
> be proscribed by time limits since they are so varied.  Rightly or
> wrongly, Baxter has drawn his authority to come on when he does from
> that Order's footnote.
>
> Small wonder the FCC disregarded K1MAN's answer, which essentially held
> that the issue of the NALs had already been settled in his favor.  In
> legal argot, res judicata.
>
> Though most hams, including myself, want to march Baxter right out of
> this service, justice dictates something else.  The FCC, it seems to
> this commentator, has the burden of first addressing its previous NALs
> of the 80s which were never resolved.
>
> An agency of government simply cannot throw a flurry of similar charges
> at a citizen, selectively unresponsive to those that can be defended,
> while arbitrarily limiting its attention to subsequent charges.
> Certainly, to the extent the previous NALs are similar, the legal
> principle of collaterol estoppel comes into play in Baxter's behalf.
>
> I don't like what Baxter does any more than you.  Indeed, I think he
> lost his way years ago.  But if we're to have justice for all in these
> United States, then we must afford K1MAN justice.  Let's not throw out
> the baby with the bath water.
>
> Bob Sherin, W4ASX
>




Article: 217089 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Roger Leone" <raleoneTAKEOUT@sbcglobal.net>
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <tKnVe.3877$6e1.2237@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <olghv2-js4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
Message-ID: <hVpVe.329$7x4.4@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:26:37 GMT


"Bob Bob" <bob3bob3@cox.net> wrote in message
news:olghv2-js4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net...
> Okay?


Bob:

Okay, I see what you are planning to do.  Seems reasonable, but there is
still a strangeness to the coax shields of the Q section being connected
only to each other.  Let us know how it works.

Roger




Article: 217090 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: rubber neck <NOSPAMssaltines@gmail.com>
Subject: FS: Shortwave Radio
Message-ID: <8abci1hpbn6veslaj8krr38djnif0u6bc8@4ax.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:37:21 -0400

FS: shortwave radio dx-394


this is a radioshack all digital shortwave reciever.
covers 150 khz to 29999 khz
am,usb,lsb,cw bands

digital green backlit display.
programable stations, s-meter

this is a well cared for reciever that i have used
and owned for many years. it will operate on 12 volts
or 120 volt ac power source.

has a telescopic antenna (factory)
or you can thread on a pl-259 coax connector 
(c.b. radio type) and use an outdoor antenna.

has a tape recorder rca connector on the back
for recording broadcast. or you may use this
to link to your computer with the right software
to decode morse code and weatherfax's in real time.

I would like to get $75.00 CA
for this reciever, not including shipping..

remove NOSPAM from my email address to reply.



Article: 217091 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE>
References: <v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Help Identify Tower manufacturer
Message-ID: <nttVe.237297$5N3.13240@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:29:55 GMT

Thank you everyone for contributing.  I think we have it identified.  Lots 
of good information was received and it will help prepare to move and 
re-erect the tower.  Several hams that have look at it commented on its good 
condition.  It should be an easy move thanks to the guys at my club 
http://www.skyviewradio.net/

Any information that was send to me can be found at the page below.

Thanks again,
Paul.


"Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE> wrote in 
message news:v5fUe.214720$5N3.62635@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I am attempting to identify the tower manufacture of the tower pictured 
> at:
> http://www.ppinyot.com/antenna.htm.    I would like to properly design a 
> base for it given  the manufacturers specs plus perhaps pick up additional 
> sections.
>
> The tower seems to be of a stamped steel design (not tubular) with stamped 
> steel cross members.  It has been well maintained by the silent key's son. 
> I gather it is about 10 to 15 years old.  There is an unpainted ladder 
> chained to one side for storage. Please do not confuse this as part of the 
> tower.
>
> Also if you happen to recognize the beam please Identify it too.
>
> Unfortunately some one discarded all the paper work not knowing it's 
> value.
>
> Thanks Paul
>
> paul at ppinyot dot com
>
> KB3LZP
> 




Article: 217092 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: David <groups@orbitcoms.com>
Subject: Help required to identify antenna type
Message-ID: <v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:54:03 GMT

Hi,

I have a Whip antenna that is supposed to give 3dB "gain" at 915MHz.
After pulling the unit apart and studying the construction, I am not 
sure what style of antenna this is.

The antenna consists of an SMA plug that has RF178 cable soldered to 
centre pin and
it appears earth braid is connected to ground side of plug.

The cable goes up the inside of 1 6mm Nylon tube for 40mm and then
exits the tube and winds around 4.5T. It then enters the tube
again and runs another 80mm. At this point the earth braid is stripped
leaving only the centre conductor and dielectric to continue another 70mm
to the top of the Radome (Nylon tube).

I understand the construction of 5/8 antenna but I would not expect the 
braid to be earthed.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

David


Article: 217093 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Paul P" <p.pinyotREMOVE@REMOVEworldnet.attREMOVE.netREMOVE>
References: <v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Help required to identify antenna type
Message-ID: <a7AVe.239071$5N3.9942@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:04:06 GMT

Could you post pictures on the binaries or email them to me please?  I would 
like to see this.

Thanks in advance,
Paul.

p.pinyot [at] worldnet [dot] att [dot] net


"David" <groups@orbitcoms.com> wrote in message 
news:v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hi,
>
> I have a Whip antenna that is supposed to give 3dB "gain" at 915MHz.
> After pulling the unit apart and studying the construction, I am not sure 
> what style of antenna this is.
>
> The antenna consists of an SMA plug that has RF178 cable soldered to 
> centre pin and
> it appears earth braid is connected to ground side of plug.
>
> The cable goes up the inside of 1 6mm Nylon tube for 40mm and then
> exits the tube and winds around 4.5T. It then enters the tube
> again and runs another 80mm. At this point the earth braid is stripped
> leaving only the centre conductor and dielectric to continue another 70mm
> to the top of the Radome (Nylon tube).
>
> I understand the construction of 5/8 antenna but I would not expect the 
> braid to be earthed.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Regards
>
> David 




Article: 217094 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: impedance: how to
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:34:03 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg6kga$mn2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <1126596424.893256.276410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

There are more formulas than there are types of antenna.
Please describe in little detail the type of antenna you are
interested in.

But in general, you will be unable to use a formula because you will
not know the basic data to put into it.

However, given more information, somebody may be able to provide you
with a sufficiently accurate numerical value.
----
Reg.




Article: 217095 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:40:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1126619005_27655@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <tKnVe.3877$6e1.2237@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Roger Leone wrote:
> My math says that 2 sections of 50 ohm coax in parallel makes a 25 ohm
> feeder, not a 100 ohm feeder.

The two sections are not electrically paralleled but instead
are used as balanced feeders. They are physically parallel
but electrically in series, thus Z0 = 100 ohms.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217096 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: impedance: how to
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:59:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1126620145_27679@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126596424.893256.276410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

yhan wrote:
> I built my antenna with the help of this newsgroup and other articles
> from the net. thanks to all. Now, the only problem is i am a little bit
> confuse about impedance. (but still studying for it). how will i know
> the impedance of my antenna so that i can buy a transformer or balun
> that will match the ... feedline(is it the right term?). Is there a
> standard formula for calculating impedance of a home-made antenna?

If you describe it, some kind soul may be able to tell you.
Is it single frequency or multi-band? Sometimes a 1:1 choke
is the logical choice for a "balun".

What a lot of us do is model our antennas to get an estimate
of the feedpoint impedance. A free version of EZNEC can be
downloaded from http://www.eznec.com.

Other free software available from:
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217097 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Full Wave Loop Question
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:04:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1126620425_27685@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <jalbi19nerau89mih6i17311b4svb5n963@4ax.com> <op.sw1fc4x2cdad2j@elbc-crz2m9noal>

KC1DI wrote:
> The clssic Quad loop is a good single band antenna , you could feed it  
> with coax as well. (75 ohm) The impeadence is about 125 ohoms.  It will  
> have on the order of about 1 to 3 db of gain over a dipole  
> bi-directional.

Hi Dave, I'm interested in knowing how you get the gain of a
quad loop to equal the gain of an Extended Double Zepp dipole?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217098 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help required to identify antenna type
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:07:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1126620636_27687@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <iLCdnXlQm_v-VLvenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@crocker.com>

Dave wrote:
> the 4.5 turns is a choke that cuts off the bottom part of the braid from the 
> top.  the top 80mm and 70mm parts are then just a vertical dipole with the 
> feedpoint at the spot where the braid stops.
> 
>>I have a Whip antenna that is supposed to give 3dB "gain" at 915MHz.

Which makes one wonder "3dB 'gain'" over what?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217099 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: impedance: how to
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:10:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1126620760_27689@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1126596424.893256.276410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <gbOdnawJ5eMJUbveRVn-qg@comcast.com>

Ham op wrote:
> Impedance is very complex.

:-) sometimes yes, sometimes no. :-)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217100 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: David <groups@orbitcoms.com>
Subject: Re: Help required to identify antenna type
References: <v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <iLCdnXlQm_v-VLvenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@crocker.com> <1126620636_27687@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <jjBVe.42256$FA3.5838@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:25:19 GMT

Cecil Moore wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> 
>> the 4.5 turns is a choke that cuts off the bottom part of the braid 
>> from the top.  the top 80mm and 70mm parts are then just a vertical 
>> dipole with the feedpoint at the spot where the braid stops.
>>
>>> I have a Whip antenna that is supposed to give 3dB "gain" at 915MHz.
> 
> 
> Which makes one wonder "3dB 'gain'" over what?

I purchased these a while ago and pulled them apart to see if there was
much involved in making similar units. They stated 3dB but did not 
indicate whether it was dBi or dBd.


What are your recommendations for 915MHz omni-directional antenna ?
I want to see what kind of range I can get from a pair of 1 Watt,
spread spectrum data transceivers with oni-directional antenna.


Thanks


Article: 217101 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <tKnVe.3877$6e1.2237@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <olghv2-js4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <hVpVe.329$7x4.4@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <g46jv2-ib6.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:59:58 -0500

Hi Roger

Might get around to it today! (Being unemployed is sometimes fun..)

Also looking at the possibility of harmonic operation w/out adjustment. 
Not useful for a 20M quad as the next usable freq is about 38Mhz. I 
found though that if I (modelled) cut for 10.1Mhz it is also usable 
28.4-29.0. This is also a good reason for using the high side impedence 
transformation (ie 50r to 100r = 122r vs 50r to 75r = 90r) as the Z on 
10M is higher. Radiation pattern isnt much good for long DX though..

Cheers Bob

Roger Leone wrote:

> 
> Okay, I see what you are planning to do.  Seems reasonable, but there is
> still a strangeness to the coax shields of the Q section being connected
> only to each other.  Let us know how it works.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 


Article: 217102 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <5uubi157qdbqjc5dhgjc5u1aa49mg7mnqs@4ax.com> <q4ghv2-tr4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <ahsci1l8fkh8n1cmlvjfrc8jckik3oo48k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <od6jv2-ib6.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:04:56 -0500

Err why?

50r to 100r = 122r
50r to 75r = 90r

Do I have the calcs right?

Wes Stewart wrote:

> Okay.  75 ohm is -still- better than 100.
> 


Article: 217103 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help required to identify antenna type
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:08:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1126624242_27741@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <v5zVe.42161$FA3.13896@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <iLCdnXlQm_v-VLvenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@crocker.com> <1126620636_27687@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <jjBVe.42256$FA3.5838@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

David wrote:
> I purchased these a while ago and pulled them apart to see if there was
> much involved in making similar units. They stated 3dB but did not 
> indicate whether it was dBi or dBd.

No phasing coils anywhere?

> What are your recommendations for 915MHz omni-directional antenna ?

I'm not the person to ask. All I would do is access the
web pages of the antenna manufacturers, like Diamond.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217104 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Carl / W6VDC <carl.hixon@cox.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>	   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126296865.329405.72430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4324E0BD.A033E1A@earthlink.net> <bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07> <6qudnRtjVJhVpLveRVn-tQ@comcast.com> <432647A7.FF531A57@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <vYBVe.9651$mH.7595@fed1read07>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:10:29 -0700

>    BTW, the same HOA tried to evict a resident after 9/11 for having the
> nerve to display the American flag in one of their windows.  The local
> paper had printed a full page American flag on heavy paper stock and
> asked people to display them in their homes.

It is exactly that type of over zealous HOA that made me tell my 
Realtor, "Do not shot me a house with any HOA!"  On our first trip out 
, the first house she showed me had an HOA.  I told her, "If you do 
that again, you are fired"  She looked shocked and said, "It's only 
$50/month."  And I replied, "It has nothing at all to do with money..."

Of course, now I have a house across the street with no less than 8 
cars in the driveway and street.  So much for single-family-home. But, 
we all get along.

Carl


Article: 217105 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:16:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1126624733_27751@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <5uubi157qdbqjc5dhgjc5u1aa49mg7mnqs@4ax.com> <q4ghv2-tr4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <ahsci1l8fkh8n1cmlvjfrc8jckik3oo48k@4ax.com> <od6jv2-ib6.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>

Bob Bob wrote:

> Err why?
> 50r to 100r = 122r

SQRT(50*200) = 100

> 50r to 75r = 90r

SQRT(50*100) = 70.7

> Do I have the calcs right?
> 
> Wes Stewart wrote:
>> Okay.  75 ohm is -still- better than 100.

SQRT(50*140) = 84 ohms. Z0=75 ohms is closer to
84 ohms than is Z0=100 ohms. If you had a 200 ohm
feedpoint, Z0=100 ohms would be perfect.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 217106 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: best HF antenna system next to a trailer?
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:22:13 -0500
Message-ID: <9175-4326EEA5-1@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
References: <1126505259.234971.15970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Eternal Squire wrote:
"I`d like some advice for determining the best antenna to put up in my
situation.

I am getting set to move to a trailer park in northeast Arizona."

Phil Rand, W1DBM distilled 35 years of trailering experience in QST and
it was reprinted in the 1978 ARRL Antenna Anthology.

As Richard Clark wrote, there is no miracle antenna.

Phil found a simple dipole only a few feet above ground would outperform
a mobile whip on 40 or 75 meters.

Here is Phil`s Table 3:

Hustler 75-meter Mobile whip mounted vertically on top rear corner of
trailer-------S7

Same as above with 60-foot counterpoise connected to
trailer-----------------------------S9

Two Hustler mobile whips back to nack
as a horizontal loaded dipole-------------S9+5dB

60-foot horizontal wire 8 feet high using     trailer (30-ft. Airstream)
as ground------S9+10dB

Hustler 4BTV trap vertical with
75 meter resonator-------------------------S9+10dB 
120 foot dipole, 15 feet high at 
center------------------------------------------S9+20dB

Airstream Loop antenna------------------S9+20dB

Home station dipole 50 feet high------S9+30dB

Feet = 0.3048 m

There is a lot more in the article which may interest operators from
trailers, but I`m not a typist. Check the Airstream Loop antenna.
Nothing extends laterally from the trailer to trip anyone up. 

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 217107 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: loop antenna question...
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg6t1l$qht$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <zdSdncQzuYW5S7_eRVn-hA@rogers.com> <1126360020_6099@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <DoKdnc13dr1ljb7eRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <1126379911_7763@spool6-east.superfeed.net> <dg19eh$3h1$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg1n5e$nh3$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg2alj$cmc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg2jg9$6nc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg33tf$p7b$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <dg3u33$rp7$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <dg4cqh$e4l$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

John,

I once had a magloop for 160 and 80 meters almost as big as the one
you propose. It worked fine. According to predictions.  Eventually,
needing the garden space for other projects, I swapped it for a bottle
of New Zealand white wine.

But to reduce the weight of a 1.5-inch diameter copper-pipe conductor
plus the tuning capacitor, the conductor was made of thin-wall, hard
aluminium alloy known as Duralumin in these parts.  (Pure aluminium is
far too soft and is useless.)

The loop was formed from three sections of tube which fitted into each
other to make a complete circle. The curvature of the sections had to
be formed in an engineering workshop.

It needed three guy ropes and could be rotated about an angle of 90
degrees, five feet above ground level, inside a 2-inch diameter, cast
iron tube sunk into the soil.

There was an aluminium alloy vertical supporting tube which extended
>from below ground level almost to the highest point of the main loop
and the motor-driven tuning capacitor. A vertical conductor, running
diametrically across the main loop, has no effect on electrical
performance.

I had very good neighbours. Never had a single compaint about the
wierd contraption which soared well above the skyline from my side of
the 6-foot high bushes and trees which constituted the boundary
between my property and theirs. It never occurred to me to request
planning permission from the local authorities.  With the assistance
of a local Black Country radio friend, G3VFF, a born mechanical
engineer, handicapped by an industrial accident, we just erected it!

It helped, to my satisfaction, to prove the veracity of some of my
radio software programs.

John, I wish you all the very best with your project.
---- 
Cheers, Reg, G4FGQ.




Article: 217108 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry" <joxendi@bellsouth.net>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>	   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126296865.329405.72430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4324E0BD.A033E1A@earthlink.net> <bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07> <6qudnRtjVJhVpLveRVn-tQ@comcast.com> <432647A7.FF531A57@earthlink.net> <vYBVe.9651$mH.7595@fed1read07>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <EXCVe.1521$Nw6.738@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:18:19 -0400


"Carl / W6VDC" <carl.hixon@cox.net> wrote in message 
news:vYBVe.9651$mH.7595@fed1read07...
>>    BTW, the same HOA tried to evict a resident after 9/11 for having the
>> nerve to display the American flag in one of their windows.  The local
>> paper had printed a full page American flag on heavy paper stock and
>> asked people to display them in their homes.
>
> It is exactly that type of over zealous HOA that made me tell my Realtor, 
> "Do not shot me a house with any HOA!"  On our first trip out , the first 
> house she showed me had an HOA.  I told her, "If you do that again, you 
> are fired"  She looked shocked and said, "It's only $50/month."  And I 
> replied, "It has nothing at all to do with money..."
>
> Of course, now I have a house across the street with no less than 8 cars 
> in the driveway and street.  So much for single-family-home. But, we all 
> get along.
>
> Carl

I chose an older neighborhood, and, like you, I refused to accept any HOA 
bullcrap. I simply will NOT tolerate any old blue-haired busybody telling 
what I can or cannot do on my own property! IOW, yer rights end at that 
property line, and if you don't like what I do then come over here and 
*make* me do something about it--all 6 feet, 230 lbs of me!!! :)  Now to 
clarify something, all my neighbors are nice people who keep their homes and 
property looking decent. If there are 2-3-4--or 7 cars over there, it ain't 
none of my business! So we have no problems. (and I get to put up as many 
ham antennas I want to!)

Jerry 




Article: 217109 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry" <joxendi@bellsouth.net>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>	   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126296865.329405.72430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4324E0BD.A033E1A@earthlink.net> <bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07> <6qudnRtjVJhVpLveRVn-tQ@comcast.com> <0ICdncTJkPKeVrveRVn-vA@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <30DVe.1556$Nw6.692@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:23:07 -0400


"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:0ICdncTJkPKeVrveRVn-vA@comcast.com...
> Dee Flint wrote:
>> "Carl / W6VDC" <carl.hixon@cox.net> wrote in message 
>> news:bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07...
>>
>>>>   And then, there are the morons and bigots:
>>>><http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>
>>>
>>>I looked at the link and read a couple of the articles.  I didn't see 
>>>anything that warranted labelling them bigots.  I don't think that the 
>>>HOA took the proper position, but that doesn't make them bigots.
>>
>>
>> However it would seem to indicate that they lack humanitarianism.
>>
>>
> Judgments!!! Would it not be better to read the exact terms of the CC&R, 
> AKA CONTRACT, before judgments are made??
>
> The exact wording of the HOA/CC&R may restrict certain activities [such as 
> external antennas, or temporary housing, etc]. The restriction can only be 
> waived by consent of the members of the HOA.


That's just it!  There ain't gonna BE any HOA's ,covenants, or busybody 
neighbors telling me to do a durned thing unless they got enough rear end on 
'em to MAKE me! If today, somebody wanted to start an  HOA in my 
neighborhood, I'd tell them to kiss my (censored).

I feel VERY strongly about property rights, and if I want to put up an 
American flag, then I'll put up an American flag and I dare some schweinhund 
to come over here and touch it! I DESPISE and detest HOA's! :(

Jerry
>
>>
> 




Article: 217110 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Bill Turner" <noway@nohow.com>
Subject: Re: best HF antenna system next to a trailer?
Date: 13 Sep 2005 16:15:08 GMT
Message-ID: <xn0e76wo02tyc9000@cnews.newsguy.com>
References: <1126505259.234971.15970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <9175-4326EEA5-1@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>

Richard Harrison wrote:

> Phil found a simple dipole only a few feet above ground would
> outperform a mobile whip on 40 or 75 meters.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Without more information, this comparison is flawed. A mobile whip has
a lower angle of radiation than a horizontal dipole. On 40 or 75, the
vertical component of radiation can be quite significant for close-in
stations (100 miles or so). At night, working long distances, the whip
may outperform the dipole. During the day, the dipole will probably
outperform the whip.

It all depends.

73, Bill W6WRT


Article: 217111 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Bill Turner" <noway@nohow.com>
Subject: Re: 73 Ohms, How do you get it?
Date: 13 Sep 2005 16:20:39 GMT
Message-ID: <xn0e76wsz3182d001@cnews.newsguy.com>
References: <1126625499.680151.37850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Harry wrote:

> I know that a half-wave dipole in free space has
> a feed-point impedance of approximately 73 ohms.
> 
> Can anyone tell me exactly how this number is calculated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Simple Ohm's law: If you apply 73 volts of RF, 1 amp of current will
flow.

To calculate the effects of nearby ground a program like EZNEC is
useful, although you almost never know the exact parameters of the
ground, so the results should not be taken as precise.

73, Bill W6WRT


Article: 217112 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Balanced from unbalanced via a 100 ohm Q section
References: <rk5hv2-2i4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <5uubi157qdbqjc5dhgjc5u1aa49mg7mnqs@4ax.com> <q4ghv2-tr4.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <ahsci1l8fkh8n1cmlvjfrc8jckik3oo48k@4ax.com> <od6jv2-ib6.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <1126624733_27751@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <r3cjv2-dh6.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:42:03 -0500

Aghaa, Okay tnxs Cec... Too much sun and weird drugs.. (prescription of 
course!)

Cheers Bob

Cecil Moore wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob Bob wrote:
> 
>> Err why?
>> 50r to 100r = 122r
> 
> 
> SQRT(50*200) = 100
> 
>> 50r to 75r = 90r
> 
> 
> SQRT(50*100) = 70.7
> 
>> Do I have the calcs right?
>>
>> Wes Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> Okay.  75 ohm is -still- better than 100.
> 
> 
> SQRT(50*140) = 84 ohms. Z0=75 ohms is closer to
> 84 ohms than is Z0=100 ohms. If you had a 200 ohm
> feedpoint, Z0=100 ohms would be perfect.


Article: 217113 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "KØHB" <groupk0hb@earthlink.net>
References: <dfql5l$oq$1@nnrp.waia.asn.au><11htogetcauugb1@news.supernews.com>   <1126247960.516709.218910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1126284201.468452.155920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0nmUe.9902$FW1.9234@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Message-ID: <EdEVe.711$Gy3.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:44:04 GMT


"Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com> wrote
>
> As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about.  Here in 
> Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red Cross 
> on the Gulf Coast.  They have, and ARE providing the ONLY communications 
> between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
>

Often at considerable personal risk....

A guy who is a radio-tower contractor (like cell sites, microwave towers, 
commercial radio stations, etc.) sent this.

--------------------------------

We got the call on Sunday afternoon. I expected
it, of course. After 18 years of doing this I can always sense when
the call is about to come. We gathered supplies on Monday and got
out the tents, Coleman fuel, cook stove, lanterns and bedrolls. Becky
graciously went to the store for our provisions, then to the bank for
cash, and by dark we had all in order.

We went by to see the customer on Tuesday morning to equip ourselves
with radios, site maps, and lists of those that we would be reporting
to. As we departed on Tuesday mid day I knew that this would be
another great adventure. All was good through Pine Bluff and Lake
Village, Arkansas. Greenville, Mississippi was even tolerable. By the
time we got to Yazoo City, however, things had changed. No ATM's, no
gas, no ice. I knew we were in trouble when the lines at the check
cashing places were longer than those at the banks. We had half a
tank. I had stopped in Dumas and bought 12 half pints of whiskey
knowing that with such legal tender a full tank could be mine
whenever I wished. We pressed on.

We arrived in Jackson to the sight of long lines at the gas stations
and grocery stores with crowds gathered outside. How wonderful it
felt to have the secure gates of the Entergy compound locked behind
us. There was little electricity and no hotel rooms. We readied the
camping supplies and checked the map for a good state park. A little
fuel from the Gods at Entergy and we were on our way. We found a
decent park (no electricity, of course) and pitched camp. Dinner was
chicken helper, mashed potatoes and tea. It began to rain but
thankfully we had brought a huge roll of Visqueen. A large tent was
erected above our sleeping bags and in no time Wednesday morning
found us nursing our mosquito bites and eating oatmeal. After that it
was off for a day in the air.

I should mention at this point that I brought my stellar lead man,
Paul Fitler. Paul spends too much time in jail, too much time in the
sauce, and too much time attending to women that can't take care of
themselves. He is constantly deep in debt and out of a place to live,
and good transportation. He is also the best, and highest paid
towerdog in the state. An average week for him is $1000.00 gross.
He'll easily double that during his tenure here. In fact, I'd imagine
that he may have a $2500.00 week before it's all over. He has worked
for me over eight years. He can't last working for anyone else more
than ten days.

We take off Wednesday in a search for fuel, ice, and towers on our
maps and find all of them. It is another long hard, hot day. We are
constantly greeted with bewildered folks looking at trees impaled in
their roofs, cars mangled and electric lines in their yards. We have
Entergy signs on the side of the van at this point and when they see
those signs their looks are heart wrenching and desperate. We look
back with sympathy. They do not understand. They want us to have the
answer. They want us to make it all better. They want relief which we
cannot give. We give 100% that day and many communications tower
sites come back to life. We see the line trucks begin to roll as we
leave town. We are glad to have played a part in this process.

Thursday finds us in the office. The telecom crew is going ballistic.
There are people everywhere barking out orders. So and so needs 19
phones installed at the office in Hattiesburg , the computers are
down at thus and so, the radio system has died at Tylertown and the
line crews can't work. The locals see the trucks sitting idle and
they are getting angry. The locals don't understand that the line
crews can't work unless they know for sure that lines are not
energized.

The line crews can't be assured of that unless they have good
communications. They can't have good communications unless the
telecom guys do their jobs and in turn, unless we get the antennae
fixed. So the locals are mad. Mad as Hell.

We listen to all of the banter going back and fourth and suddenly
someone is shoving a piece of paper in my face and screaming
loudly... Generating station (power plant) South of New Orleans .
it's off line... no output... city is dark enough as it is...
something has to be done. they need a 20 KW generator ASAP in order
to have lights so they can get the plant back in service. Someone has
to go. It is a war zone down there. The plant must come back to
life... And then the inevitable question: "Will you go?" It echoes in
my mind... Will I go? Will I? Can we take that chance? I smile.
Actually, I grin. Yeah. I'll go. I give them the inevitable response
to their inevitable question. "You bet your sweet ass I'll go...
Press hard pal, Five copies"!!!

We top off the tank, load the shotgun, holster the pistols and hit
the road. This is going to be a trip to remember. As we head out
there are few cars on the road. No gas. The traffic is minimal and we
set the cruise on 60 so as to conserve gas. Getting there will be
easy. Getting back will not be as assured. I know, however, that we
have enough gas to get to the plant and at least back to the
Mississippi/Louisiana state line. I've got food, ammo, tents and lots
of water. If I get stranded I'll be ok. We drive along saying little.
We know that one wrong turn or wrong word at the wrong time to the
wrong person could change things real quick.

With the Entergy signs on the truck we glide through every roadblock
with ease. Cops don't ask for our ID or license. They don't search
us. They really don't even look at us. We are riding on a magic
carpet. No one will mess with us. They can see what we have in tow.
Ah yes. The generator. The magic elixir that everyone wants.
Generators make oxygen systems work; they bring food refrigeration
units back to life; they bring light to the darkness, life to the
newborns at the hospital. We have the generator. We are the stewards
of all that the citizens hold sacred at the moment. We are the golden
boys. They smile us and we smile back.

We get onto I-310 and then onto US 90 headed for the plant and
suddenly our swollen heads and large egos begin to shrink. We are
greeted by bands of wandering blacks about 15 to 20 in number. Every
store front is destroyed. Some buildings are burned. All of the glass
is gone from every window. We do a quick mental calculation as to
wind direction during the storm. We realize quickly that many of the
broken windows are on the downwind side. We see the crowds... it all
makes sense then.

We get to the end of US 90 and make our turn towards the plant. We
are confronted by a policeman in full riot gear. The intersection is
desolate save for him. An industrial wasteland with this one shred of
order standing in the road. He reminds me of some cavalryman in
Oklahoma in the early 1800's or some sheriff in a town of lawless
criminals. He looks over our cargo curiously and gives us a halting
look, letting us know that "Entergy trucks have been taking fire in
this area. I suggest you remove or cover your decals".
We see the plant up ahead. The sign of the guard lowering his shotgun
is a welcome one. We make our delivery and point our truck for
Jackson.

The men at the plant we visit with are worried. They don't want to
risk the ride home. Some have wives and kids they must attend to.
They have no choice. The others opt to sleep in their trucks to avoid
venturing from the perceived safety of the 12 gauge in the hands of
the guard.

I envy neither of them. Either choice is dangerous. The gangs in the
streets are hungry, thirsty and angry. Neither the guard nor the men
on the way home are any match for them. The gangs know it and the men
know it. For the first time I understand the delicate balance between
prison guards and their charges. The criminals really do have the
upper hand at some moments. Everyone just allows the perceptions to
be different than that.

As we head home among fallen timbers, power lines and buildings we
come across a group of cops with side arms drawn and pointed at a
group of men. On the ground are 15 or 20 individuals cuffed and
laying on their faces. There are 9 or 10 cops and only 5 or 6 in the
crowd, save those on the ground, so we figure the cops are winning
and we punch it and move on. Every store has the front doors kicked
in. One shopkeeper had the brilliant idea of putting his coke
machines in front of the doors to prevent entry. The thugs were
offended and responded by putting a truck through the windows. After
they finished their shopping they left their calling card by way of a
Molotov cocktail. How quaint.

I thought we were going to burn a hole in the gas gauge on the way
home with our eyes. We calculated and recalculated. Every road sign
showing mileage to the next map point was checked and rechecked. We
were always cognizant of the five gallon can in the back. The fumes
it emanated were like sweet perfume to our olfactories. That was the
sweet smell of a soft landing. We knew that we could make it back. We
felt good about that.

I thought of the B-29 pilots flying missions over Japan in 1944.
Their calculations were much harder and there was much more at stake.
I wondered what it was like for them when they ran the numbers and
the result was death. What were those last hours like? What did they
say to one another? I said a prayer for their souls and paid my
respects. Real men. Let me never forget that.

My air mattress coupled with the floor of the Entergy Radio shop at
Jackson, MS was a welcome relief. I looked forward to a good night's
sleep only to be haunted by the looks of those on the streets. Why
them and not me? I guess I'll always ask that. I always have. Why am
I even here? What drives me to do these crazy things? Why would I put
my best lead man along with the father of my children in harm's way?
I don't know the answers to those questions. Frankly, I don't really
care about the answers. I'm just glad to be safe and alive tonight.
I feel bad for those that are without homes and families tonight and
wish I could do something to take away their pain.

I think when it is all over I may go back down to that stretch of
Highway 90 where the shops were burned. I think I may go back there
and meet with the owners. Yeah. That's what I'll do. I'll meet with
them. All that they have worked for was taken away from them by one
violent act of nature and many lewd acts of men. I'll go meet with
those men and women and engage in commerce with them as I can. And
when I do. I'll tell them that I understand. Because I do. And they
will know that I do. And in the end. I will know that everything will
be OK. And they will know that too.




Article: 217114 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: 73 Ohms,  How do you get it?
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:22:36 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dg75db$9df$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <1126625499.680151.37850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


"Harry" wrote
> I know that a half-wave dipole in free space has
> a feed-point impedance of approximately 73 ohms.
>
> Can anyone tell me **exactly** how this number is calculated.
>
=======================================
There's no such value as 'exact'.

All you have to do is integrate the power flowing outwards from a
dipole at the centre of an arbitrary sphere with a surface area of x
square metres and equate it to the current flowing in the dipole,
taking into account the distribution of current along the dipole, and
you will obtain the radiation resistance referred to its feedpont.
OK?

But in your case, all you can do is just accept the hearsay value of
73 ohms as being good enough.

Actually it depends on the diameter of the dipole relative to its
length and at HF it is a few percent less. Not that anybody ever
notices such minor discrepancies.
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 217115 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Henry <wa0goz@arrl.net>
Subject: Visiting
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:51:56 -0500
Message-ID: <dg7762015vg@enews3.newsguy.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000905080409030608070203
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,
I have a small favor to ask. I have friends from Pakistan who are
camping their way around the States and Canada. They have asked me if
I know where they might be able to go without spending large amounts
of money. I said I  would try my friends and family for
accommodations. They travel light and bring all their own camping
gear, and only require a small place to set up.

I have given them your name and address anyway in anticipation that
you won't mind. I have enclosed a picture to help identification if
they turn up. They may bring the green Mercedes or the white one -
sometimes they use both. Thanks in advance.

Henry

--------------000905080409030608070203
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