Article: 224143 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Korbin Dallas <korbindallas@dogeit.com>
Subject: Re: FCC regulation on max. antenna tower height @ 2.4GHz ???
References: <1146737737.626050.144830@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <88m7g.54592$Eh4.42118@trnddc01>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 12:56:36 GMT

On Thu, 04 May 2006 03:15:37 -0700, electro wrote:

> what is the maximum limit for antenna tower @ 2.4ghz ISM band?any link
> you know that leads to this regulation? or only the FAA authorizes such
> height regulations?
> 
> thanks

In the USA there is no limit on antenna hight related to the 2.4ghz band.
Just remember you DO have limits on ERP. 

There are restrictions on antenna heights based on building codes where
ever that tower may be located as well a Over all FAA Restrictions but
those have nothing to do with the radio bands being used on the tower.

KD.



Article: 224144 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <8sqr52l6eo49mvss3gdvoqlmu9amheub5j@4ax.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <1146008591.641742.237030@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4tjt42lg6k5ustfmiljfkpiqdle084d0iq@4ax.com> <96N4g.77517$dW3.54166@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <jtf5g.8087$QP4.6867@fed1read12> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <ppfq52te7vu2ra4kgc37onhgpkh0lest1h@4ax.com> <3miq52hug1lh7enkv2e4u0o0q0k18hl9ij@4ax.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 12:57:12 GMT

On Sat, 06 May 2006 18:19:24 -0700, Dan Richardson <> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:39:24 GMT, Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
>wrote:
>
>>Measurements are required.  A suitable SWR meter of some form
>>is needed or your just guessing.
>
>Judging an antenna's performance based upon SWR is a very poor
>indicator of how it will radiate.
>
>Danny, K6MHE

It would appear correct on face value and the old adage that even a
dummy load is 1:1 appears to confirm it.    Even my Yasu rubber duck
has a decent SWR but it doen't take much of an antenna to out perform
it.

If the match and resonance of the antenna arent even within reason 
we can assume that the transceiver will not efficiently transfer power
to it or recieve power from it.   While a rubber duck radiates it's
efficientcy is poor.  So goes it for badly tuned antennas.   One
cannot expect a poorly tuned and mismatched antenna to work as 
well as it should even if it is better than a rubber duck.

At VHF cable loss is far greater than HF so SWR if high enough on a
25ft of RG58 can be a significant loss.   This is also true for
recieve.  IF the antenna is not tuned in band or matched the 
coupled power is wasted and that is also a factor to poor recieve.

So in the end while SWR is not a direct indicator of antenna
performance it is a fairly usable indicator of antenna/feedline
perfomance and far better than "I can hit a repeater xx miles
away" statements where we don't know if thats an easy path
or with high power  or not.


Allison

>
>
>In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one
>useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three
>or more is a congress. - John Adams
>
>email: k6mhe<at>arrl<dot>net
>http://www.k6mhe.com/



Article: 224145 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Korbin Dallas <korbindallas@dogeit.com>
Subject: Re: Gain of 2.4GHz WiFi vertical
References: <1146576950.559148.53790@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <_cm7g.54593$Eh4.25788@trnddc01>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 13:01:46 GMT

On Tue, 02 May 2006 06:35:50 -0700, pdrunen@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Group,
> 
> D-link has a vertical antenna for WiFi applications which is about a
> foot long and operates at 2.4 GHz with a stated 7dbi gain.
> 
> Since the antenna is a vertical, I thought that the best low-angle
> radiation is 5/8 wave for verticals, anything longer would put the
> lobes higher and would result in a lower low angle gain.
> 
> If this is the case then the antenna should only be about 3.5 inches
> long.  ?
> 
> I am going to check, but I bet the true antenna is only about this
> lenght and the rest of the lenght is the plastic, so the appeal is
> bigger is better.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?

I suspect that antenna is a collinear antenna with elevated Feed. 
Probably 1/2 of the of the antenna or more is simply transmission line.
They want the active elements be to in "Free Space" above any surrounding
equipment.
Its amazing what people will do with electronics and wonder why it does
not perform as advertised.

KD



Article: 224146 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Korbin Dallas <korbindallas@dogeit.com>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos>
Message-ID: <Uem7g.54594$Eh4.50096@trnddc01>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 13:03:48 GMT

On Sun, 07 May 2006 10:33:51 +0930, OZUser wrote:

> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
> 
> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????

Switching to a Dipole antenna suspended from the trees would be a Major
step upward in performance.

Mobile antennas have very low efficiency, grounding them will not improve
that significantly relative to the dipole. 

KD


Article: 224147 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <tgsr52pou5k8ocue29r37ltd1b0fi01666@4ax.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <445d778d$0$1017$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 13:11:34 GMT

On Sat, 06 May 2006 23:29:01 -0500, Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
wrote:

>jimbo wrote:
>
>> I have been trying to get an acceptable 2 meter antenna installed in my 
>> attic. A J-Pole seemed to me the best solution for my attic space. You 
><snip>
>> jimbo - AJ7IM
>
>Here is a link to one I have had good luck with.  Works quite well out 
>of the box.  I use two chaokes, one at the base, and one 19 inches below 
>that.  You may need to trim the length of the half wave section, so cut 
>it a smidge long.

If anything with the close confines of the attic the antenna will have
to be shorter.  Tuning it in place due to close confines was not
possible.  That was the original problem and what has emerged 
since.  Last report he installed an Arrow OSJ and was happy.

>
>http://www.hamuniverse.com/2mladjpole.html
>
>tom
>K0TAR



Article: 224148 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bill Turner <dezrat@copper.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is the only way we can make it fair
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 06:20:02 -0700
Message-ID: <ilsr52pnia16k680t009n2i160jrerfmo6@4ax.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <2006050617232064440%Down@gagnet> <telamon_spamshield-1B2945.20344106052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <Y%k7g.74024$gE.7086@dukeread06>

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Sun, 7 May 2006 06:39:32 -0500, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote:


>I used to be a staunch defender of CW.  We lost the 20, we lost the 13, we 
>are going to lose the 5.
>
>In today's age of materialism, self created rights and the liberal ideals of 
>fairness, I'm just waiting for the removal of all testing requirments.
>
>Just show up, mark A, B, C or D on 10 questions (no grading, just turn it 
>in) and then get a certificate of attendance, a blue ribbon that says 1st 
>place and a 1x2 vanity call sign.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Complete nonsense. CW testing is being phased out because CW is
becoming obsolete, period. Don't try to read anything more into it
than that. 

With all the great new digital modes available - most of which are far
superior to CW - forcing people to waste valuable hours learning an
obsolete mode is sheer folly. There are so many great things to do
with Amateur Radio. Do them!

73, Bill W6WRT



Article: 224149 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: HFguy <HFguy@connifer.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <2uA6g.8331$QP4.4556@fed1read12> <_I2dnfwDCNN4bcbZRVn-jg@comcast.com> <z9g7g.8473$QP4.5902@fed1read12> <csWdnbwoz-tYb8DZ4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3Br7g.1489$NB6.591@trndny03>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 19:08:47 GMT

Dee Flint wrote:>
> 
> For someone like yourself, it is absolutely essential that you eliminate any 
> and all extra translation steps.  The burst of sound should register 
> directly as a letter.  In other words, hear it as a letter and reflexively 
> write a letter.  Then it doesn't matter if you happen to know the actual 
> number of dots and dashes.  No counting, no "dog did it", no "helpful" 
> memory devices at all.  They will only hinder someone like yourself.

I have the same problem with the code. My brain wants to identify or 
count the dit/dahs and then translate them into the character. Learning 
each character as a quick burst of sound, as if it were sent at an 
equivalent speed of perhaps 20-wpm, is probably the best method.
I never got beyond about 10-wpm after practicing on and off for many 
years, sometimes for months at a time. I used to listen to the code 
practice transmissions on W1AW every night. If the 'General' code 
requirement had been 3-wpm less, I might have been a ham' decades ago 
but I wanted HF phone privileges or nothing (stubborn me). I didn't have 
any interest in getting a Technician license or being a Novice until it 
expired because of my code limitations. I don't think learning the code 
has much to do with intelligence or even motivation to a certain extent. 
Some folks are just not wired for code. I could have passed the Extra 
exam' in the days before the questions were available to be memorized 
but that 20-wpm was the problem. I tell myself it was amateur radio's 
loss. :-)


Article: 224150 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Me <Me@shadow.orgs>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos>
Message-ID: <Me-7665B8.11184007052006@netnews.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 19:18:27 GMT

In article <1146965914.944527@teuthos>, "OZUser" <ozuser@ozuser.com.au> 
wrote:

> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
> 
> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????
> 
> 
> 

Ever thought about using a Ballon or Kite Antenna?  Very Good for open
areas, and excellent for MF and HF Portable operations.

Me


Article: 224151 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be>
Subject: Re: added 10 nF to my 1500-700Khz ant loop: -->>  Result: i'm into LW 216khz !
References: <no-B97E6F.23530705052006@news.stben.net> <no-CBB461.09163406052006@news.stben.net> <E66dne-YasjfK8HZRVn-ug@adelphia.com> <no-E0F667.22260806052006@news.stben.net> <U7KdnfN8l8sxu8DZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@adelphia.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 21:54:47 +0200
Message-ID: <no-779BBD.21544707052006@news.stben.net>

In article <U7KdnfN8l8sxu8DZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
 John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:

> switcher wrote:
> > In article <E66dne-YasjfK8HZRVn-ug@adelphia.com>,
> >  John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:
> (snip)
> >>What kind of insulation is on the wire in the big loop?  Its thickness 
> >>and dielectric constant have a big effect on the total stray 
> >>capacitance each turn will add.
> > 
> > 
> > I guess copper 0.7 mm, insulation soft plastic .25 mm
> 
> Sounds like ordinary PVC insulated hook up wire.  The PVC is a little 
> lossy, but not too bad at this low frequency.  You would have a lot 
> more trouble with high capacitance if you were using enameled (magnet) 
> wire.  My favorite for such things is Teflon or Tefzel insulated wire 
> (low loss and low dielectric constant), but it is expensive and hard 
> to find.  Another good, but hard to find insulation is polyethylene. 
> It is sometimes used in low capacitance, data grade cables, but 
> stripping out enough for this project would be a career.
> 
> Do you think it is practical to pull 6 more turns through your pipe?

It is possible ....  I'll look for some time ...
I have the right tools ..

-- 
een appeltje te schillen met http://applefaulty.be
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/bwnl.htm
Breng je iMac G5 terug (ik wil binnen 2 jaar geen defecte 2de hands Apple kopen)
http://www.apple.com/nl/support/imac/repairextensionprogram/


Article: 224152 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be>
Subject: Re: If Amloop is LC circuit, what about RLC circuit ??
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 21:56:56 +0200
Message-ID: <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net>

In article 
<telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
 Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:

> It depends on what you want. Maybe the bandwidth is to narrow or the 
> tuning action is so sharp it is hard to peak it. You add resistance and 
> the peak does go down but the bandwidth also widens.

I was already thinking: if DRM is 12khz wide (am I right ?), then it 
might be a tuned loop is too narrow ??

So an R might help  ???

-- 
een appeltje te schillen met http://applefaulty.be
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/bwnl.htm
Breng je iMac G5 terug (ik wil binnen 2 jaar geen defecte 2de hands Apple kopen)
http://www.apple.com/nl/support/imac/repairextensionprogram/


Article: 224153 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: matt weber <matthew50@ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: If Amloop is LC circuit, what about RLC circuit ??
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 12:43:49 -0700
Message-ID: <jbjs52d7nspv5k1umfa1pkgpiv0di790po@4ax.com>
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <1146948111.366387.176910@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

On 6 May 2006 13:41:51 -0700, miso@sushi.com wrote:

>The lower Q makes the LC less selective. For a tuned loop, it is not a
>good idea to introduce resistance.
>
>
>switcher wrote:
>> a damped LC ???
>> Does it make sense to introduce a R in the LC circuit and use it as
>> antenna ??
>> Does it change eg the Q ???  etc ...
It certainly does.  One of the ways to calculate Q is
Resistance/Reactance. By definition, increasing resistance will lower
Q.

Q is also the bandwidth/frequency at the point the signal is down to
half peak.
>>
>> I have tried to put formula's here
>> (look if they are right !
>> freq_low=Math.sqrt(1/(inductance*cap_high) - (resistance * resistance )
>> / (4 *inductance *inductance))/(2*Math.PI)
>> freq_high=Math.sqrt(1/(inductance*cap_low) - (resistance * resistance )
>> / (4 *inductance *inductance))/(2*Math.PI)
>>
>> OK ???
>> )
>> http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/amlooprlc.htm
>>
>>
>> A high R seems to lower the low freq, that's interesting ...
>>
>>
>>
>> original formula for LC circuits: (put R = 0 in previous, and you should
>> get the same ....)
>>
>> http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/amloop.htm
>>
>> --
>> een appeltje te schillen met http://applefaulty.be
>> http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/bwnl.htm
>> Breng je iMac G5 terug (ik wil binnen 2 jaar geen defecte 2de hands Apple kopen)
>> http://www.apple.com/nl/support/imac/repairextensionprogram/



Article: 224154 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dick, AA5VU" <aa5vuNOSPAM@arrl.net>
Subject: Looking for UHF only TV Antenna
Message-ID: <aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 20:18:34 GMT

I have been looking for a UHF only outside TV antenna or plans on
how to construct a double bow tie like antenna.  Right now I have a 50 
foot short run of RG-59 to an upstairs patio post.  At the end of the 
coax run I user an old TV antenna transformer to interface to the 300 
ohm lead from a single bow tie (that came with old  TV).  This setup 
works but surely there is something better.   We are not that far from 
the transmission sites but an inside antenna will not work.  

Dick AA5VU


Article: 224155 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "F4DRH" <F4DRH@wanadoo.fr>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 22:32:45 +0200
Message-ID: <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C67226.2911E480
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Harbin

The bottom of the J-Pole antenna is a 1/4 wave length to transform the =
high impedance of the 1/2 wave length above into a lower impedance =
(close to 50 ohms). The impedance of that 1/4WL sould be Z =3D SQUARE ( =
Z coax X Z antenna)  .... in that case Z antenna is the impedance of the =
1/2 WL (usually several hundreds ohms)
That's why the space between elements as well as there diameter is =
important.

You certainly know the Topfkreis ... which is the same antenna ... 1/2 =
WL + 1/4 WL ... but with another technical realisation.

Hoping it helps.

Regards

Jean-Marc
F4DRH
www.barbaxoops.com
=20



  "Harbin" <harbinjr@adelphia.net> a =E9crit dans le message de news: =
d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
  Howdy:
      In a j-pole the 1/4 wave element,  and the bottom 1/4 of the 3/4
  element should act as a transmission line, right? So... shouldn't =
these
  elements be as very close to each other to cancel one another out, =
closer
  than what I see on most j-poles? Or is this space have something to do
  with the impedance of the antenna?

  --=20
  SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen KG6URO

  This is YOUR future:
  http://halturnershow.com/aztlan_caps.wmv
  http://media.putfile.com/La-Gran-Marcha
  The Mexican Solution:
  =
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=3Dpapers&code=3D=
06-D_18

  -
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C67226.2911E480
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Harbin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bottom of the J-Pole antenna is a =
1/4 wave=20
length to transform the high impedance of the 1/2 wave length above into =
a lower=20
impedance (close to 50 ohms). The impedance of that 1/4WL sould be Z =3D =
SQUARE (=20
Z coax X Z antenna)&nbsp; .... in that case Z antenna is the impedance =
of the=20
1/2 WL (usually several hundreds ohms)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That's why the space between elements =
as well as=20
there diameter is important.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You certainly know the Topfkreis ... =
which is the=20
same antenna ... 1/2 WL + 1/4 WL ... but with another technical=20
realisation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hoping it helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jean-Marc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>F4DRH</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.barbaxoops.com">www.barbaxoops.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Harbin" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:harbinjr@adelphia.net">harbinjr@adelphia.net</A>&gt; a =
=E9crit dans=20
  le message de news: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com">d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-h=
A@adelphia.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV>Howdy:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In a j-pole the 1/4 wave element,&nbsp; and =
the bottom=20
  1/4 of the 3/4</DIV>
  <DIV>element should act as a transmission line, right? So... shouldn't =

  these</DIV>
  <DIV>elements be as very close&nbsp;to each other&nbsp;to cancel one =
another=20
  out, closer</DIV>
  <DIV>than what I see on most j-poles? Or is this space have something =
to=20
  do</DIV>
  <DIV>with the impedance of the antenna?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>-- <BR>SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen KG6URO</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>This is YOUR future:<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://halturnershow.com/aztlan_caps.wmv">http://halturnershow.co=
m/aztlan_caps.wmv</A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://media.putfile.com/La-Gran-Marcha">http://media.putfile.com=
/La-Gran-Marcha</A><BR>The=20
  Mexican Solution:<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=3Dpapers=
&amp;code=3D06-D_18">http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?sec=
tion=3Dpapers&amp;code=3D06-D_18</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>-</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C67226.2911E480--



Article: 224156 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for UHF only TV Antenna
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns97BC929699A1spectrumhogstarbandn@198.186.192.196>
Date: 07 May 2006 21:23:07 GMT


> I have been looking for a UHF only outside TV antenna or plans on
> how to construct a double bow tie like antenna. 


       	Our True Value hardware store has them.... then again,  we 
only have UHF TV translators here in where I'm located so maybe that is 
why they stock them.  

            I believe Radio shack has a model available, too, but the 
double stacked bow-tie antenna I bought for $24 at the hardware store was 
superior.


   Ed   K7AAT



Article: 224157 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: aRKay <REMOVEarkay@qsl.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for UHF only TV Antenna
References: <aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <ruOdneHpY99UxcPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <REMOVEarkay-2A27F1.18103907052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 23:10:39 GMT

In article <ruOdneHpY99UxcPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com>,
 "g. beat" <@<spam protected>> wrote:

> "Dick, AA5VU" <aa5vuNOSPAM@arrl.net> wrote in message 
> news:aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> >I have been looking for a UHF only outside TV antenna or plans on
> > how to construct a double bow tie like antenna.  Right now I have a 50
> > foot short run of RG-59 to an upstairs patio post.  At the end of the
> > coax run I user an old TV antenna transformer to interface to the 300
> > ohm lead from a single bow tie (that came with old  TV).  This setup
> > works but surely there is something better.   We are not that far from
> > the transmission sites but an inside antenna will not work.
> >
> > Dick AA5VU
> 
> Most Radio Shacks still sell the Antenna Craft OEM - UHF product.
> Top of the line (mfg) is Weingard product (BTW both made in Burlington, IA)
> 
> gb 

I order a Radio Shack inside antenna that was junk and sent it back.   
May have to  find a Weingard dealer.


Article: 224158 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: Looking for UHF only TV Antenna
Message-ID: <kl0t525pvkgrjlbr6128dgcj332bbvjuf1@4ax.com>
References: <aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 19:31:01 -0400

On Sun, 07 May 2006 20:18:34 GMT, "Dick, AA5VU" <aa5vuNOSPAM@arrl.net>
wrote:

>I have been looking for a UHF only outside TV antenna or plans on
>how to construct a double bow tie like antenna.  Right now I have a 50 
>foot short run of RG-59 to an upstairs patio post.  At the end of the 
>coax run I user an old TV antenna transformer to interface to the 300 
>ohm lead from a single bow tie (that came with old  TV).  This setup 
>works but surely there is something better.   We are not that far from 
>the transmission sites but an inside antenna will not work.  
>
>Dick AA5VU


home depot has "HDTV" antennas.  They are primarily UHF with a couple
of VHF elements scattered in them.  They, or Lowes may have what you
are looking for.  

Also 300 ohm twin-lead, if properly installed, will bring in a
stronger signal than the coax will.  

hope this helps

-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224159 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:23:33 +0900
Message-ID: <e3m2uj$d0g$1@news2.kornet.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com>


"Dave" <W1MCE@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Silent Key wrote:
>
>> What's the purpose of ham radio, To have fun talking about rigs and
>> weather, or to be able to communicate?  SNIPPED
>
> In the olden days, the purpose was well understood. It was, and still is, 
> to become proficient in one or more aspects of radio communication, to 
> provide a skilled base of technically proficient people who pursue an 
> interest in some aspect of radio communication technology and art for 
> personal gain without any financial interest, reward or compensation from 
> the activity.
>
> It is NOT to open a box, plug it in, connect a wire, and, when it doesn't 
> work, get on the internet and ask for help.
>
> I advocate for a code test for the following reason. I value what I have 
> to plan for, work for, sacrifice for, and invest my time for.
>
> I value the reward for 18 months of practicing Morse Code every night for 
> one hour a night. That's an investment.
>
> I value the reward of studying, really studying, to understand the 
> electronics for my Technician License. That's an investment.
>
> I value the reward of studying, really studying, to understand the 
> electronics for my General License. That's an investment.
>
> I value the reward of studying, really studying, to understand the 
> electronics for my Advanced License. That's an investment.
>
> I value the reward of studying, really studying, to understand the 
> electronics for my Extra License. That's an investment.
>
> It took me 45 years to progress from Novice to Extra. [Note: I was 25 wpm 
> CW proficient in the 1960s. Marriage, Family, Profession took priority 
> over Ham Radio.]
>
> I teach Ham Radio classes. I'm a registered ARRL instructor. I'm not 
> invited to teach too often in these days. I DO NOT teach Q&A. I WILL NOT 
> teach Q&A. I teach understanding of what's behind the Q&A.
>
> My Technician classes begin with ELEMENT 1. It takes 3 to 4 weeks at two 
> hours a week for classes to pass Element 1. It takes 10 to 12 additional 
> weeks of a two hour class one night a week plus homework to pass the 
> Technician exam.
>
> Those who choose this path have made an investment of their time and 
> effort. I hope they value that investment.
>
> I WILL NOT support a 4 hour session on a Saturday morning and hooray! You 
> are now a ham!!!
>
> BTW, FWIW, I'm still learning from the skills and experiences of Roy, 
> Cecil, Rick, et al on the antenna n.g.
>
>

Bravo! BRA-VO!!

(really, it's good to see someone else that appreciates the value of earning 
what you get, instead of insisting it be handed to you)





Article: 224160 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim - NN7K <nn7kexk7zfg@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <PCT6g.66838$_S7.66325@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>   <1147048473.395078.29380@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1147048870.192257.166140@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <OLw7g.73914$H71.5343@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 01:01:34 GMT

Showing that : Now days, this is nothing much more than a
Glorified Citizens Band?  10-4 good buddy! , and now on to the
Sspectrum Auctioneer!  SOMEONE has to have a better use for it!
All those good numbers, see u on the flip-flop!  (formerly) NN7K

an_old_friend wrote:
> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
> 


Article: 224161 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 20:05:28 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: J pole question
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

F4DRH wrote:
> Hello Harbin
>  
> The bottom of the J-Pole antenna is a 1/4 wave length to transform the 
> high impedance of the 1/2 wave length above into a lower impedance 
> (close to 50 ohms). The impedance of that 1/4WL sould be Z = SQUARE ( Z 
> coax X Z antenna)  .... in that case Z antenna is the impedance of the 
> 1/2 WL (usually several hundreds ohms)
> That's why the space between elements as well as there diameter is 
> important.
>  
> You certainly know the Topfkreis ... which is the same antenna ... 1/2 
> WL + 1/4 WL ... but with another technical realisation.
>  
> Hoping it helps.
>  
> Regards
>  
> Jean-Marc
> F4DRH

Jean-Marc

Thanks for mentioning the Topfkreis.  It seems like it should work much 
better, and is so obvious once you see it.  I will have to make one.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 224162 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Butch Magee <lynyrd@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 20:45:38 -0500
Message-ID: <125t8q0opiuqsb4@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos>

OZUser wrote:
> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
> 
> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????
> 
> 
> 
I do not believe anything will improve the receive on the antenna you 
are using, what ever it may be.  If you are going to be parked, put up 
"stick dipole" just as high as you can.  That will help recieve and 
transmit.

Butch Magee KF5DE


Article: 224163 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Message-ID: <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 22:07:15 -0400

On Sun, 07 May 2006 20:05:28 -0500, Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
wrote:


>
>Thanks for mentioning the Topfkreis.  It seems like it should work much 
>better, and is so obvious once you see it.  I will have to make one.
>
>tom
>K0TAR


OK, I did a search, unsuccessfully, on Topfkreis.  What is it and
where do I find it?

thanks
Buck

-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224164 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: J pole question
Message-ID: <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 02:55:04 GMT

On Sun, 07 May 2006 22:07:15 -0400, Buck <not@this.time> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 20:05:28 -0500, Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Thanks for mentioning the Topfkreis.  It seems like it should work much 
>>better, and is so obvious once you see it.  I will have to make one.
>>
>>tom
>>K0TAR
>
>
>OK, I did a search, unsuccessfully, on Topfkreis.  What is it and
>where do I find it?
>
>thanks
>Buck

If it's what I think it is the design is a coaxial feed section with 
a 1/2wl radiator.    The difference being a coax fed rather than a 
balanced line feed.  In either case it relies on an unterminated 1/4wl
section reflecting a high impedence to match the end impedence of
a 1/2wl section.    That being something in the range of 3000-5000
ohms (at resonance).

There is also a third way to implement.  use a lumped tuned circuit
and tap the coax up from the bottom for match.  The tuned circuit is 
parallel resonant with the 1/2wl section attached to the top.   I've
built this for use with my VHF HT and is about 38" for the radiator
and the coil at the bottom looks like a baseloading coil.  Works
way better than a rubber duck but at 40" long overall it's big.


Allison



Article: 224165 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 22:00:34 -0700
Message-ID: <qtdg5216b5leq7tsm25n48u1vphlrk0i73@4ax.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3ermq$550$1@news2.kornet.net> <TGR6g.4151$Vn.1949@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <IBT6g.66837$_S7.28808@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <61370$445cbc13$453d9423$2432@FUSE.NET> <tb77g.11986$Lm5.649@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <brWdnQ3vJ8DFicDZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <sn4d52dkqguacv21l23qb93eplhhab5feo@4ax.com> <rMSdnVfW6I0PcMDZRVn-qQ@comcast.com>

"Dee Flint" <deeflint01@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>> You are claiming that there are circumstances under which CW can be
>> understood but none of the newer digital modes can?   Assuming, of
>> course, a skilled operator for CW and appropriate equipment for digital
>> modes.  Or even software for both.
>>
>>
>
>That is correct.  Let's just take a very simple example.  PSK is one of our 
>newest digital modes.  When there are auroral disturbances, PSK cannot be 
>used.  The phase shifts induced by the auroral activity make it impossible 
>for the computer to read.  These phase shifts effect all the modes.  Modes 
>that depend on phase shifts (such as PSK) are affected the most severely and 
>quickly become unusable.  On the other hand, CW takes on a buzzy, raspy 
>sound but a human operator can still decipher it although a computer will 
>fail.  I have personally experienced these conditions.  If the auroral 
>induced phase shifts aren't too severe even SSB will get through when PSK 
>has failed.  I have also personally experienced this.

OK.  I wqas thinking of weak but undistorted signals - there seems to be
evidence that digital modes can get through when CW can't even be heard.
Audible but distorted signals, as you mention, are a different problem,
one that I wasn't thinking of.  Sort of like those distorted letters you
have to decypher to gain access to restricted Yahoo groups, GoDaddy
domain information, and various other web sites - a machine can
certainly see them, but OCR isn't good enough to read them (neither am
I, sometimes).



Jack Hamilton
jfh@acm.org

-----
Though in a state of society some must have greater 
luxuries and comforts than others, yet all should have
the necessities of life; and if the poor cannot exist,
in vain may the rich look for happiness or prosperity.
The legistlature is never so well employed as when they
look to the interests of those who are at a distance 
>from them in the ranks of society.  It is their duty 
to do so; religion calls for it; humanity calls for it;
and if there are hearts who are not awake to either of 
those feelings, their own interests would dictate it.

      Sir Lloyd Kenyon, Rex vs. Rusby, 1800


Article: 224166 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid>
Subject: Re: If Amloop is LC circuit, what about RLC circuit ??
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net>
Message-ID: <telamon_spamshield-5A0BF8.23173507052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 06:17:35 GMT

In article <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net>,
 switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be> wrote:

> In article 
> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com
> >,
>  Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > It depends on what you want. Maybe the bandwidth is to narrow or 
> > the tuning action is so sharp it is hard to peak it. You add 
> > resistance and the peak does go down but the bandwidth also widens.
> 
> I was already thinking: if DRM is 12khz wide (am I right ?), then it 
> might be a tuned loop is too narrow ??
> 
> So an R might help  ???

If the tuned loop bandwidth is to narrow then you can deliberately 
spoil the Q of the loop by adding resistance and broaden the bandwidth. 

I have not calculated it but I expect a LC loop operating in the MHz 
range would have a bandwidth greater than 12 KHz so I do not expect you 
will have a problem.

-- 
Telamon
Ventura, California


Article: 224167 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: If Amloop is LC circuit, what about RLC circuit ??
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 00:01:17 -0700
Message-ID: <125tr64j09u0le7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-5A0BF8.23173507052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>

Telamon wrote:
> In article <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net>,
>  switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be> wrote:
> 
>> In article 
>> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com
>>> ,
>>  Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> It depends on what you want. Maybe the bandwidth is to narrow or 
>>> the tuning action is so sharp it is hard to peak it. You add 
>>> resistance and the peak does go down but the bandwidth also widens.
>> I was already thinking: if DRM is 12khz wide (am I right ?), then it 
>> might be a tuned loop is too narrow ??
>>
>> So an R might help  ???
> 
> If the tuned loop bandwidth is to narrow then you can deliberately 
> spoil the Q of the loop by adding resistance and broaden the bandwidth. 
> . . .

A really quick back-of-the envelope look at the problem indicates that 
adding a resistance won't make the signal any stronger when the loop is 
tuned away from the peak. It'll just make the signal weaker when it is 
tuned to the peak. So it's "wider", but no better at any tuning setting 
but worse at and near the peak. To check on my calculation, try it: 
connect and disconnect the resistor at various tuning settings, on and 
off peak. Does it make the signal any stronger at any setting?

The only time there would be any advantage to adding an R to widen the 
bandwidth is if it's so narrow that it distorts a modulated signal due 
to uneven response across the audio bandwidth. This would mean at least 
several dB variation over a couple of kHz for voice SSB or over 10 kHz 
for broadcast quality AM.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 224168 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid>
Subject: Re: If Amloop is LC circuit, what about RLC circuit ??
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net> <telamon_spamshield-5A0BF8.23173507052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <125tr64j09u0le7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <telamon_spamshield-D72616.00270408052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 07:27:05 GMT

In article <125tr64j09u0le7@corp.supernews.com>,
 Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com> wrote:

> Telamon wrote:
> > In article <no-28ED16.21565607052006@news.stben.net>,
> >  switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be> wrote:
> > 
> >> In article 
> >> <telamon_spamshield-2D7154.20170506052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com
> >>> ,
> >>  Telamon <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It depends on what you want. Maybe the bandwidth is to narrow or 
> >>> the tuning action is so sharp it is hard to peak it. You add 
> >>> resistance and the peak does go down but the bandwidth also widens.
> >> I was already thinking: if DRM is 12khz wide (am I right ?), then it 
> >> might be a tuned loop is too narrow ??
> >>
> >> So an R might help  ???
> > 
> > If the tuned loop bandwidth is to narrow then you can deliberately 
> > spoil the Q of the loop by adding resistance and broaden the bandwidth. 
> > . . .
> 
> A really quick back-of-the envelope look at the problem indicates that 
> adding a resistance won't make the signal any stronger when the loop is 
> tuned away from the peak. It'll just make the signal weaker when it is 
> tuned to the peak. So it's "wider", but no better at any tuning setting 
> but worse at and near the peak. To check on my calculation, try it: 
> connect and disconnect the resistor at various tuning settings, on and 
> off peak. Does it make the signal any stronger at any setting?
> 
> The only time there would be any advantage to adding an R to widen the 
> bandwidth is if it's so narrow that it distorts a modulated signal due 
> to uneven response across the audio bandwidth. This would mean at least 
> several dB variation over a couple of kHz for voice SSB or over 10 kHz 
> for broadcast quality AM.

I read his post correctly his concern is a 12 KHz wide DRM signal and 
that the tuned loop response will be to sharp and narrow. Firstly he 
needs to build the loop and sweep it to see if has a problem to begin 
with. Parasitics may cause the loop response to be wide enough that 12 
KHz will not be a problem. If it turns out it does he can add 
resistance, which will decrease the peak response and broaden it. Adding 
resistance will cause the loop to not work as well but that is the price 
you pay for greater bandwidth.

-- 
Telamon
Ventura, California


Article: 224170 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dick, AA5VU" <aa5vuNOSPAM@arrl.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for UHF only TV Antenna
References: <aa5vuNOSPAM-AC3BB9.15183307052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <ah0t52t08o0bj6q6v2vq0a39jq8vncak3g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aa5vuNOSPAM-C0D6A8.06445808052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 11:44:59 GMT

Wes,

Thanks..... the half-size (4-bay) shown on at 
http://www.starkelectronic.com/wing5.htm for $21.23 (+$9 shipping) is 
just what I need. 

Dick


In article <ah0t52t08o0bj6q6v2vq0a39jq8vncak3g@4ax.com>,
 Wes Stewart <n7ws*@*yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 May 2006 20:18:34 GMT, "Dick, AA5VU" <aa5vuNOSPAM@arrl.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >I have been looking for a UHF only outside TV antenna or plans on
> >how to construct a double bow tie like antenna.  Right now I have a 50 
> >foot short run of RG-59 to an upstairs patio post.  At the end of the 
> >coax run I user an old TV antenna transformer to interface to the 300 
> >ohm lead from a single bow tie (that came with old  TV).  This setup 
> >works but surely there is something better.   We are not that far from 
> >the transmission sites but an inside antenna will not work.  
> 
> I've got one of these.
> 
> http://www.starkelectronic.com/wnpr8800.htm
> 
> The half-size (4-bay) would probably do it for you.
> 
> With a Channel Master 7778 pre-amp I'm receiving all of the Phoenix
> hi-def channels from 100+ miles away.
> 
> Probably just the pre-amp would fix your problem.


Article: 224171 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be>
Subject: Re: added 10 nF to my 1500-700Khz ant loop: -->> Result: i'm into LW 216khz !
References: <no-B97E6F.23530705052006@news.stben.net> <no-CBB461.09163406052006@news.stben.net> <E66dne-YasjfK8HZRVn-ug@adelphia.com> <no-E0F667.22260806052006@news.stben.net> <U7KdnfN8l8sxu8DZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@adelphia.com> <no-779BBD.21544707052006@news.stben.net> <1147042625.171198.49090@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 14:08:15 +0200
Message-ID: <no-A910C8.14081508052006@ns.stben.net>

NIce.

Three grey boxes stacked like this one

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/amloop/loopbottom2.jpg

would allow to make a spiral with 8 turns ... etc ...
should be the best solution ...

I bought 2 of these at a sell out for 4 euro/$/piece, now they are at 17 
;-( ..   !




In article <1147042625.171198.49090@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "K7ITM" <k7itm@msn.com> wrote:

> If you search the archives of this group (for example with Google), you
> wil find some good info about loops for low frequency reception.  One
> way to keep the loop's effective self capacitance down is to wind it
> with the wires spaces apart some.  It is common to use at least one
> wire diameter spacing between wires, so it would be at least two times
> the wire diameter, center to center.  You can also put, say, 11 pieces
> of wooden dowel or PVC pipe in a circle.  Number them in sequence.
> Then wind the wire outside 1, inside 2, outside 3, ... outside 11,
> inside 1, outside 2, ... so that each successive turn is on the
> opposite side of each particular pipe.  (The axis of each pipe is
> perpendicular to the plane of the circle.)  As you can see, you must
> use an odd number of posts in this construction.
> 
> There is benefit to making the loop very symmetrical about a vertical
> plane, because local sources of noise are likely to be electric field
> which is perpendicular to the earth, and will be rejected by such a
> symmetrical antenna.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
>

-- 
een appeltje te schillen met http://applefaulty.be
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/bwnl.htm
Breng je iMac G5 terug (ik wil binnen 2 jaar geen defecte 2de hands Apple kopen)
http://www.apple.com/nl/support/imac/repairextensionprogram/


Article: 224172 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <PCT6g.66838$_S7.66325@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1147048473.395078.29380@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <uc-dnbQrpbvxisLZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ZSG7g.12336$Lm5.11461@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 12:31:53 GMT

Noon-Air wrote:
> The only problem with the EEs that I run across, is they know just enough to 
> get themselves hurt and/or burn their homes down when they try to work with 
> *ELECTRICITY* instead of electronics. It seems that at 240vac, all their 
> common sense goes out the window.

EE stands for Electrical Engineer. Power company engineers
are usually EEs.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Article: 224173 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: switcher <no@KijkenZeHierOokAlNaar.be>
Subject: Re: AM/MW Loop Antenna - Inductive Coupling -vice- Resistor Spoiler
References: <no-E5E544.22384306052006@news.stben.net> <1146948111.366387.176910@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1147039039.586791.79380@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 14:33:45 +0200
Message-ID: <no-CA3679.14334508052006@ns.stben.net>

In article <1147039039.586791.79380@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
 "RHF" <rhf-newsgroups@pacbell.net> wrote:

> AM/MW LOOP ANTENNA COUPLING  :
> *  The Coil of the external AM/MW Loop Antenna
> is an Inductor {RF Transformer Coil}
> *  The Coil of the Radio's internal AM/MW Antenna
> is an Inductor {RF Transformer Coil}
> *  Together the Two Coils form an RF Transformer
> Moving the Two Coils and changing their relationship
> to each other varies the "Coupling" between them.

Nice reasoning, but:

When coil A - ant has 5 turns, and coil B - radio has 5 turns, the 
voltage (or so) is the same.

When we now double A / or B, the voltage should vary for the same 
amount, I learned....  so you can make the sig higher ???

In my physics book (Halliday/Resnick  Fundamentals of Physics), p 445 - 
transformers it says:
N1 / V1  =  N2 / V2


would it be possible to double the number of turns on B (which is 
sometimes easier ... space requirements) ???  That would lead to double 
V2 and higher sig ...  ???

Of course, problem remains ... resonance.  You can't add tunrs to A, or 
you loose resonance ...  Adding turns to A means .. making it smaller 
... to have the same resonance properties ...

-- 
een appeltje te schillen met http://applefaulty.be
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/bwnl.htm
Breng je iMac G5 terug (ik wil binnen 2 jaar geen defecte 2de hands Apple kopen)
http://www.apple.com/nl/support/imac/repairextensionprogram/


Article: 224174 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: =?utf-8?b?Sm9uIEvDpXJlIEhlbGxhbg==?= <dev@null.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: 08 May 2006 14:56:19 +0200
Message-ID: <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com>

Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net writes:
> If it's what I think it is the design is a coaxial feed section with 
> a 1/2wl radiator.    The difference being a coax fed rather than a 
> balanced line feed.  In either case it relies on an unterminated 1/4wl
> section reflecting a high impedence to match the end impedence of
> a 1/2wl section.    That being something in the range of 3000-5000
> ohms (at resonance).

Here's a very simple end fed vertical dipole:

http://www.la2t.org/otfgallery/albums/Teknisk_plukk/1002.jpg

http://f3wm.free.fr/radio/pocket.html

It's simply a piece of coax. The braid is stripped off the last 1/4
wavelength. Another 1/4 wavelength from the end, there is a choke to isolate
a 1/4 wavelength of braid from the rest of the cable. Presto, dipole!

Support it with a fishing rod, hang it from a tree, whatever.

73 de LA4RT Jon


Article: 224175 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: szekeres@pitt.edu (GregS)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 16:27:21 GMT
Message-ID: <e3nrht$s1j$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <2uA6g.8331$QP4.4556@fed1read12> <ZGR6g.4155$Vn.1246@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <DET6g.66840$_S7.52842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <445c2f80$0$1005$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

In article <445c2f80$0$1005$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>, Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org> wrote:
>Cecil Moore wrote:
>
>> Silent Keys wrote:
>> 
>>> What if in an emergency your microphone broke, and the only thing you had
>>> to save a life was CW?
>> 
>> 
>> What if the aliens invaded and all they couldn't understand
>> was CW?
>
>Which is most likely, actually.  We broadcast a lot more voice than CW, 
>  Ever noticed how many watts of television, FM radio and AM radio are 
>out there versus CW?
>
>CW is effectivly dead except for those that wish to keep it alive. 
>Similar to the old car collectors.  Nothing wrong with it. beautiful 
>collector items, but not really part of the current world.

CW is and might be around forever for identifiers in different things.
It can be transmitted along with voice and doesn't get in the way
of other things. Any loss would be the best fun I had during
my Amateur Radio Service and learning Radiotelegraph Second class
training. I even found a code chart at the RF desks at a NASA MSFN tracking
station when I worked there. Just in case!

greg


Article: 224176 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "J Tabor" <denews@taborsoft.com>
Subject: Re: New program  - SKYTRIG
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 12:57:13 -0500
Message-ID: <125v1k48ulgbuec@corp.supernews.com>
References: <I8KdnSx2msqRP8vZRVny2Q@bt.com>

Hi,

Indeed a worthy offering. <G>

Also feel free to download and use the default QSL-ware (freeware) WinCAP 
Wizard.

WinCAP Wizard is an enhanced, amateur radio directed, HF prop app making use 
of the VOACAP prediction engine.

Many, many charts and reports are provided in the QSL-ware mode.
www.taborsoft.com

Cheers,
Jim
-- 
email sent to: denews@taborsoft.com
is discarded without being seen.
Sorry for any inconvenience. 




Article: 224177 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 14:41:51 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: J pole question
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <445f9eff$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Buck wrote:

> On Sun, 07 May 2006 20:05:28 -0500, Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Thanks for mentioning the Topfkreis.  It seems like it should work much 
>>better, and is so obvious once you see it.  I will have to make one.
>>
>>tom
>>K0TAR
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I did a search, unsuccessfully, on Topfkreis.  What is it and
> where do I find it?
> 
> thanks
> Buck
> 

I found these.  Not in english, but it hardly matters.

http://membres.lycos.fr/arrad38/bidouilles/topfkreis/topfkreis.htm
http://f5jtz.club.fr/pjacquet/topkreis.htm

tom
K0TAR


Article: 224178 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:58:56 -0000
Message-ID: <125v8o0jmoufu5b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <445f9eff$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

In article <445f9eff$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>,
Tom Ring  <news0002@taring.org> wrote:

>> OK, I did a search, unsuccessfully, on Topfkreis.  What is it and
>> where do I find it?

>I found these.  Not in english, but it hardly matters.
>
>http://membres.lycos.fr/arrad38/bidouilles/topfkreis/topfkreis.htm
>http://f5jtz.club.fr/pjacquet/topkreis.htm

Also try Googling for "sperrtopf" or "sperrtof".  Same basic idea...
a J-pole-like extended Zepp in which the matching section is a coaxial
sleeve.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224179 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: cw trolling
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:44:02 -0500
Message-ID: <e3oaij$bjo$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <e3fvnh$97m$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Steve N. wrote:

> > Should stay that way...

                 Silent, I meant.    (in case you missed that one)


> > "Silent Key" <cw.h@m.bands> wrote in message
> > news:NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > What's the purpose of ham radio, ...
> > > SC
> > Well, "SC"  a.k.a. troll,
> > Cw, when it came along, was frowned uopn and was predicted to be the
death
> > of ham radio as well.  Did you know that?

> hmm   I knew that about AM and SSB but not CW do you happen to have a
> reference for that? (might be useful)

Whoever you are,
I believe you will find this in the book about the early days of amateur
radio.  It is called something like "200 Meters and Down", or is it "Below".
ARRL has it and many ham stores do.  I have a copy and have difficulty
remembering the exact title.  A really nice read.  I also have a 1932 ARRL
handbook and I think there are references to the "doom of the advent of CW"
in there also.

.  You, of course, know about spark.   The sparkies didn't like CW and, at
that time, the FCC  __DID__ out law it (spark, that is).
I admit that it was a loaded question because CW stands for Continuous Wave
and what differentiates it from" Spark".  Probably not what the troll wanted
and I know he/she/it wouldn't respond, but did it anyway.


> > Your fingers and eyes (or ears) aren't broke....
> are you sure? his brain seem to be

  A given and my point exactly.

> >.. so why aren't you out mentoring new hams?  ... Why am *I* wasting my
time with this...pfffvt

> maybe becuase you are tired of this divisve pissing contest or something
like that

    Yea.  A vent is in order every once-in-a-while, I guess.  I figured the
CW doom thing would get a comment, so thanks - whomever you may be..

 73, Steve, K9DCI




Article: 224180 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:53:47 -0500
Message-ID: <e3ob4s$blg$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos> <oPednY9NV8TQ0sDZRVn-iA@comcast.com>


"Dave" <W1MCE@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oPednY9NV8TQ0sDZRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> OZUser wrote:
>
> > As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> > Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950
HFradio
> > &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
> >
> > Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> > "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????


> NOPE!!
> But changing to a larger antenna will certainly help.


Even if you went to the trouble of pounding in a 3 meter (8 ft) ground rod,
or laid out somewhere between five and 40 radials, the answer would still be
NOPE.   As stated in other posts, the loaded mobile antenna is in-efficient
to begin with.

73, Steve, K9DCI

Well, knowing RF, it 'might' make a measurable difference (small amount),
but probably not a practical difference (many dB).




Article: 224181 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:04:52 -0500
Message-ID: <e3obpl$bo9$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C672B9.24A49580
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



 Harbin,
    You seem to understand the "J-Antenna".  What you really seem to be =
asking is how far apart is "too far" for a balanced transmission line.  =
That's a question I can't answer and I'm sure others can, but , in the =
common custom of adding obtuse references which sort of seem to be =
relevant... what about that old one wire transmission  like the =
"G-Line"?  [no joke]

73, Steve, K9DCI


  "Harbin" <harbinjr@adelphia.net> wrote in message =
news:d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
  Howdy:
      In a j-pole the 1/4 wave element,  and the bottom 1/4 of the 3/4
  element should act as a transmission line, right? So... shouldn't =
these
  elements be as very close to each other to cancel one another out, =
closer
  than what I see on most j-poles? Or is this space have something to do
  with the impedance of the antenna?

  --=20
  SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen KG6URO

  This is YOUR future:
  http://halturnershow.com/aztlan_caps.wmv
  http://media.putfile.com/La-Gran-Marcha
  The Mexican Solution:
  =
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=3Dpapers&code=3D=
06-D_18

  -
------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C672B9.24A49580
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1543" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Harbin,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You seem to =
understand the=20
"J-Antenna".&nbsp; What you really seem to be asking is how far apart is =
"too=20
far" for a balanced transmission line.&nbsp; That's a question I can't =
answer=20
and I'm sure others can, but , in the common custom of adding obtuse =
references=20
which sort of seem to be relevant... what about that old one wire=20
transmission&nbsp; like the "G-Line"?&nbsp; [no joke]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73, Steve, K9DCI</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Harbin" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:harbinjr@adelphia.net">harbinjr@adelphia.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
  message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com">news:d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRV=
n-hA@adelphia.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV>Howdy:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In a j-pole the 1/4 wave element,&nbsp; and =
the bottom=20
  1/4 of the 3/4</DIV>
  <DIV>element should act as a transmission line, right? So... shouldn't =

  these</DIV>
  <DIV>elements be as very close&nbsp;to each other&nbsp;to cancel one =
another=20
  out, closer</DIV>
  <DIV>than what I see on most j-poles? Or is this space have something =
to=20
  do</DIV>
  <DIV>with the impedance of the antenna?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>-- <BR>SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen KG6URO</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>This is YOUR future:<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://halturnershow.com/aztlan_caps.wmv">http://halturnershow.co=
m/aztlan_caps.wmv</A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://media.putfile.com/La-Gran-Marcha">http://media.putfile.com=
/La-Gran-Marcha</A><BR>The=20
  Mexican Solution:<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=3Dpapers=
&amp;code=3D06-D_18">http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?sec=
tion=3Dpapers&amp;code=3D06-D_18</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>-</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C672B9.24A49580--



Article: 224182 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: "interesting" antenna design
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:57:13 -0500
Message-ID: <e3obba$bln$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <69488$4450c795$453d9423$12820@FUSE.NET> <12525ve803tkr07@corp.supernews.com> <3hd2525iugq7fnnabcpsqk32okj0ncklt7@4ax.com> <vM-dnV9tXLgW8czZRVn-gg@adelphia.com> <4454C4B7.4060503@fuse.net> <wR35g.21983$tN3.5401@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <e3itbh$eb5@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>


<mcalhoun@ksu.edu> wrote in message news:e3itbh$eb5@unix1.cc.ksu.edu...
> >> I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
> >> etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
> >> the heart of ham radio.  Maybe not the brain, but the heart.
>
> >You must love Kurt N. Sterba's tales of using bedsprings,
> >ladders, and garbage cans for antennas.
>
> And don't forget the (QST?) pictures of "car antennas" several years
> ago:  two cars sitting almost bumper-to-bumper and fed with coax as a
> very-low dipole at the almost-touching bumpers.  Truly a "car antenna"
> (but not very mobile)!

> --Myron A. Calhoun.


Now THAT one I haven't seen.

HOWEVER,  I DO have a picture (Dad's) of two hams and their cars side by
side.   W9SH  and W9IT

Of course they had call plates!  What'd you expect!  Ya think QST'd print it
????

73, Steve, K9DCI




Article: 224183 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:07:20 -0500
Message-ID: <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>

OOPS! Jon,
   IF it is "end-fed" is isn't a "di-pole".  It is just a half wave.  I
guess it is technically a monopole.
73, Steve, K9DCI

"Jon KÃ¥re Hellan" <dev@null.com> wrote in message
news:1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no...
>
> Here's a very simple end fed vertical dipole:
>
> http://www.la2t.org/otfgallery/albums/Teknisk_plukk/1002.jpg
>
> http://f3wm.free.fr/radio/pocket.html
>
> It's simply a piece of coax. The braid is stripped off the last 1/4
> wavelength. Another 1/4 wavelength from the end, there is a choke to
isolate
> a 1/4 wavelength of braid from the rest of the cable. Presto, dipole!
>
> Support it with a fishing rod, hang it from a tree, whatever.
>
> 73 de LA4RT Jon




Article: 224184 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: J pole question
Message-ID: <pugv529nij1shrjhhkeajrpcrjdop99nog@4ax.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 22:19:58 GMT

On Thu, 4 May 2006 17:20:24 -0700, "Harbin" <harbinjr@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>Howdy:
>    In a j-pole the 1/4 wave element,  and the bottom 1/4 of the 3/4
>element should act as a transmission line, right? So... shouldn't these
>elements be as very close to each other to cancel one another out, closer
>than what I see on most j-poles? Or is this space have something to do
>with the impedance of the antenna?

The spacing of the two parallel sections form a transmission line and
the spacing for a given impedence is in proportion to the diameter of
the wires.  For 300ohms a pair of #18 wires space around 3/8th of an
inch and for 1/2" CUpipe it's around 3".  At those distances they tend
to cancle for the most part.  However if the distances are increased 
it can cause interactions as at some point the two wires(pipes) 
cease to be  a reasonable transmission line.


Allison


Article: 224185 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
From: Silent Keys <no.em@il.here>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com> <w9y7g.4969$Vn.3291@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <P-KdnU-7qf_az8LZRVn-qA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <rvP7g.1623$u4.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 22:21:11 GMT

Dave <W1MCE@comcast.net> wrote in news:P-KdnU-7qf_az8LZRVn-qA@comcast.com:

> CW wrote:
> 
>> You could have shortened that up considerably. Short version: "I did it
>> so everyone else should have to". See how easy that was? Not an
>> original idea though.
>> 
> 
> CW, you are incorrect. I VALUE my license because it took effort over 
> many years. The issue is valuing your license because you invested time,
> talent and energy into obtaining it. The more you invest, the more you 
> value.
> 
> If you read the full message you would conclude that the message is 
> about investing and reward of investing. It is not about a 4 hour cram 
> short term memory program that yields a Technician License without the 
> KNOWLEDGE of how to build a 1/2 wavelength dipole with coax to connect 
> to the new out of the box toy.
> 
> When I read posts regarding 'how to ...' on some basic aspect of Ham 
> Radio I wonder about the training, education, understanding, that went 
> into 'studying' for that license. IMO, the license should indicate a 
> level of proficiency that, in many cases, is missing. When I hear an 
> EXTRA CLASS ham on twenty meters asking someone what the difference is 
> between USB and LSB, we have a problem in training and education.
> 
> I don't know if Ham Radio will degenerate into glorified CBers. But, for
> many it has become a hobby of appliance operators.
> 
> - - -



I'm going to drop this agrument because it looks like I lost and people
really don't care anymore one way or the other, but I'll end it with just
couple questions to all; 

What is one behavior on our ham bands that might or could make you loose
interest in ham radio and leave if you heard it or if it became previlent? 

And does it seem like it's going that direction?

SC


Article: 224186 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:18:47 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Radio Buff wrote:

> I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
> 
> 
> SC

GOAT



Article: 224187 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "CW" <s@earthlink.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com> <w9y7g.4969$Vn.3291@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <P-KdnU-7qf_az8LZRVn-qA@comcast.com> <rvP7g.1623$u4.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <17S7g.342$Jf.36@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 01:19:57 GMT

So, are you asking if people are getting rude, using foul language and don't
seem to give a crap about each other? If so, yes, they are. The sure cure
for that would be to increase the code requirement to 30 words per minute
for general. Faster for extra.  Along with that, NO license of any kind
without an engineering degree. This all wouldn't do anything about lousy
operators. What it would do is reduce the number of new hams. After a while,
we would be down to 100 or so nationwide. The bands would get much better
because there would be virtually no one using them. Something that you seem
to have failed to consider is that society in general is adopting these
traits you find objectionable. New hams tend to be more objectionable (under
this criteria) than old. Is it because they didn't spend hours studying
code? No, it's because they are products of the society they live in.
Americans are known worldwide as pushy, arrogant, self centered bastards.
There is a reason for that, they are.



"Silent Keys" <no.em@il.here> wrote in message
news:rvP7g.1623$u4.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> And does it seem like it's going that direction?
>
> SC




Article: 224188 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Brian Murrey" <brian@iquest.net>
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
Message-ID: <PvS7g.1713$u4.354@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 01:46:23 GMT

Ozzie,

What the hell...give it a try.  Your only investment is a little time, a
little work pounding the ground rod in, and it'll work or it won't.  Then,
have a beer, sit back and enjoy the night.

Personally...I think if you are just interested in listening...try tossing a
long wire in the bush, and maybe wrapping the other end, a dozen times
maybe, around that 2m steel whip.

Gud luck mate

73

-- 
=========================================
Radio Amateurs - Fill your junk box, from my junkbox!
http://www.hamradparts.com
73 de KB9BVN
=========================================


"OZUser" <ozuser@ozuser.com.au> wrote in message
news:1146965914.944527@teuthos...
> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
>
> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????
>
>
>




Article: 224189 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 20:54:40 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <445c1b4a$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>   <445c3238$0$6144$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>   <125oqbpg9m4d261@corp.supernews.com> <1147134360.265243.219960@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <445ff660$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

almostcutmyhairtoday@yahoo.com wrote:

> Roy Lewallen wrote:
> 
>>Tom Ring wrote:
>>
>>>Bet no one from the antenna newsgroup even bothers to respond with
>>>anything worthwhile.  This is, after all, a group of people that thinks
>>>the world ends at 10 meters. (Except for a very very few, and you know
>>>I'm not speaking of you).
>>
>>I bet no one from the antenna newsgroup bothers to respond because the
>>topic doesn't have anything to do with antennas. There are plenty of
>>other newsgroups for those who favor the endless CW/no CW arguments.
>>
>>Roy Lewallen, W7EL
> 
> 
> Roy, don't antennas radiate CW better than they radiate SSB?  8^))
> 
> Anyway, rraa has it's fair share of jerks.
> 

My point was that few people here think beyond the dipole, quarter wave 
vertical, or shortened mobile vertical.  And all of those for HF.  The 
group is broad minded in many ways, but very narrow in others.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 224190 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 21:05:38 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com> <w9y7g.4969$Vn.3291@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <P-KdnU-7qf_az8LZRVn-qA@comcast.com> <rvP7g.1623$u4.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <17S7g.342$Jf.36@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <445ff8f2$0$1009$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

CW wrote:

> So, are you asking if people are getting rude, using foul language and don't
> seem to give a crap about each other? If so, yes, they are. The sure cure
> for that would be to increase the code requirement to 30 words per minute
> for general. Faster for extra.  Along with that, NO license of any kind
> without an engineering degree. This all wouldn't do anything about lousy
> operators. What it would do is reduce the number of new hams. After a while,
> we would be down to 100 or so nationwide. The bands would get much better
> because there would be virtually no one using them. Something that you seem
> to have failed to consider is that society in general is adopting these
> traits you find objectionable. New hams tend to be more objectionable (under
> this criteria) than old. Is it because they didn't spend hours studying
> code? No, it's because they are products of the society they live in.
> Americans are known worldwide as pushy, arrogant, self centered bastards.
> There is a reason for that, they are.
> 
> 
> 
> "Silent Keys" <no.em@il.here> wrote in message
> news:rvP7g.1623$u4.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> 
>>And does it seem like it's going that direction?
>>
>>SC
> 
> 
> 

No license without an engineering degree would be fine by me.  And 
follow it by one that requires complete knowledge of the National 
Traffic System.  Which would be more inportant by far if you want to 
keep the traditions up.

How many here know how to pass traffic properly?  Bet I can draw a line 
in time.  And it had nothing to do with license class.  I was a tech at 
the time.  But I learned how to pass traffic, and how to be net control 
as part of the NTS.  Because I had people on our local nets that 
enforced the rules.  On checking in, out, and passing traffic.  Traffic 
up into the system, and down to the final recipient.

That, my friends, was the difference.  Not CW.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 224191 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: "interesting" antenna design
Message-ID: <241062psj9m00dcbo0k2f4fkolv45q55n2@4ax.com>
References: <69488$4450c795$453d9423$12820@FUSE.NET> <12525ve803tkr07@corp.supernews.com> <3hd2525iugq7fnnabcpsqk32okj0ncklt7@4ax.com> <vM-dnV9tXLgW8czZRVn-gg@adelphia.com> <4454C4B7.4060503@fuse.net> <wR35g.21983$tN3.5401@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <e3itbh$eb5@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <e3obba$bln$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 22:58:25 -0400

On Mon, 8 May 2006 15:57:13 -0500, "Steve N."
<stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> wrote:

>
><mcalhoun@ksu.edu> wrote in message news:e3itbh$eb5@unix1.cc.ksu.edu...
>> >> I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
>> >> etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
>> >> the heart of ham radio.  Maybe not the brain, but the heart.
>>
>> >You must love Kurt N. Sterba's tales of using bedsprings,
>> >ladders, and garbage cans for antennas.
>>
>> And don't forget the (QST?) pictures of "car antennas" several years
>> ago:  two cars sitting almost bumper-to-bumper and fed with coax as a
>> very-low dipole at the almost-touching bumpers.  Truly a "car antenna"
>> (but not very mobile)!
>
>> --Myron A. Calhoun.
>
>
>Now THAT one I haven't seen.
>
>HOWEVER,  I DO have a picture (Dad's) of two hams and their cars side by
>side.   W9SH  and W9IT
>
>Of course they had call plates!  What'd you expect!  Ya think QST'd print it
>????
>
>73, Steve, K9DCI
>


I don't know if it is the same article, but I read about someone who
connected two cars  and added a little wire to make up a 20 meter
dipole.  


-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224192 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
Message-ID: <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 03:01:23 GMT


"Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
news:445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> Radio Buff wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
>>
>>
>> SC
>
> GOAT
>

It's actually a good thing when folks come over from "the Dark Side". When 
new to Hamdom it's almost certain they'll slip up and occasionally use their 
old "jargon". When they correct themselves it's also a good thing, since it 
means they are aware of their faux pas and are working at improving their 
operating procedure and language.

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 224193 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: =?utf-8?b?Sm9uIEvDpXJlIEhlbGxhbg==?= <dev@null.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: 09 May 2006 14:05:57 +0200
Message-ID: <1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>

"Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> writes:

> OOPS! Jon,
>    IF it is "end-fed" is isn't a "di-pole".  It is just a half wave.  I
> guess it is technically a monopole.

Sort of, sort of. The feed point is actually in the middle of the half
wave. Traditionally, it's called coaxial sleeve antenna. Except
originally, the sleeve was outside the coax braid. In this variation,
due to LA1IC Rolf Brevig, the sleeve is the outside of the coax, and
the end of the sleeve is a choke. He's written about it in English in
CQ, 1999, Aug pg 22. The version in Norwegian is on the web at
http://www.la2t.org/teknikk/vertikal2m.html. 

I found an article from Microwave Journal about a very similar
concept: http://www.ansoft.com/news/articles/04.05_MWJ.pdf. They use
different kinds of choke, since they're at much higher
frequencies. They report performance very similar to a dipole.

73 de LA4RT Jon


Article: 224194 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Michael Coslo <mjc5@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 09:20:33 -0400
Message-ID: <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

kd5sak wrote:
> "Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
> news:445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>> Radio Buff wrote:
>>
>>> I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
>>>
>>>
>>> SC
>> GOAT
>>
> 
> It's actually a good thing when folks come over from "the Dark Side". When 
> new to Hamdom it's almost certain they'll slip up and occasionally use their 
> old "jargon". When they correct themselves it's also a good thing, since it 
> means they are aware of their faux pas and are working at improving their 
> operating procedure and language.

newsgroups trimmed...	

	I don't care how people talk, as long as it is in civil fashion. (with 
one exception)

	But it strikes me odd that people who would *speak* such terms as 
"73's", "QSL", and others, not to mention my all time favorite,  "HI 
HI", do not have much of an argument when they complain about a person 
referring to S-units as "pounds".......


	For cryin out loud, if its funny , LAUGH, don't say HI HI!


	- 73 de Mike KB3EIA - ;^)


Article: 224195 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
Message-ID: <0i28g.70098$F_3.9084@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:10:52 GMT


"Michael Coslo" <mjc5@psu.edu> wrote in message 
news:e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...
> kd5sak wrote:
>> "Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
>> news:445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> Radio Buff wrote:
>>>
> For cryin out loud, if its funny , LAUGH, don't say HI HI!
>
>
> - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - ;^)


Newbie that I am(Tech, early 2003 and General, mid 2005) , I agree. And as 
far as Hi Hi goes, I always figured the early first users of the term 
probably meant for it to be read Hee Hee rather than High High. Again, as a 
newbie, I profess no great insight, I just express an opinon. I don't use 
either the 73 or the Hi Hi in QSOs or EMails, it strikes me as an 
affectation, but that may just be my newbie insecurity speaking.(g)

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 224196 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bill Turner <dezrat@copper.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 08:33:37 -0700
Message-ID: <5bd162l54g4id7pouog2pt4ocavgl82pso@4ax.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <PCT6g.66838$_S7.66325@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1147048473.395078.29380@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On 7 May 2006 17:34:33 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:


>> Let's require a EE degree instead of Morse Code.
>> --
>> 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
>
>Probably easier to get for some people, and could actually lead to a
>good paying career in electronics.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Speaking of leading to a good paying career, if you're going to learn
a skill, how about learning typing instead of Morse? Get on RTTY or
PSK31 or one of the other digital modes and develop a useful, saleable
skill. There isn't an employer in the world today (except possibly the
ARRL) who would be impressed that you know Morse, but lots would like
it if you could type.

Bill, W6WRT



Article: 224197 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bill Turner <dezrat@copper.net>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 08:38:23 -0700
Message-ID: <bqd162lu2c83cgfljvpv01llepb85reare@4ax.com>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Tue, 09 May 2006 09:20:33 -0400, Michael Coslo <mjc5@psu.edu>
 wrote:

>do not have much of an argument when they complain about a person 
>referring to S-units as "pounds".......
>

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Couldn't agree more. Everybody knows S-units are metric. :-)

Bill, W6WRT



Article: 224198 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: szekeres@pitt.edu (GregS)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 16:19:38 GMT
Message-ID: <e3qffj$h55$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <PCT6g.66838$_S7.66325@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1147048473.395078.29380@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5bd162l54g4id7pouog2pt4ocavgl82pso@4ax.com>

In article <5bd162l54g4id7pouog2pt4ocavgl82pso@4ax.com>, noway@nohow.com wrote:
>ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
>On 7 May 2006 17:34:33 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>> Let's require a EE degree instead of Morse Code.
>>> --
>>> 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
>>
>>Probably easier to get for some people, and could actually lead to a
>>good paying career in electronics.
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>Speaking of leading to a good paying career, if you're going to learn
>a skill, how about learning typing instead of Morse? Get on RTTY or
>PSK31 or one of the other digital modes and develop a useful, saleable
>skill. There isn't an employer in the world today (except possibly the
>ARRL) who would be impressed that you know Morse, but lots would like
>it if you could type.
>
>Bill, W6WRT

How about typing while decoding CW?
Did anybody learn RTTY ?

greg
N6GS


Article: 224199 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1146827830.022860.277130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <WGR6g.4153$Vn.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <PCT6g.66838$_S7.66325@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1147048473.395078.29380@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5bd162l54g4id7pouog2pt4ocavgl82pso@4ax.com> <e3qffj$h55$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <F948g.70137$F_3.11799@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 17:18:29 GMT

GregS wrote:
> Did anybody learn RTTY ?

Now there's a real challenge. What baud rate would be required
for a human being to copy RTTY by ear?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Article: 224200 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Bob <bob3bob3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos>
Message-ID: <9s07j3-dlp.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 12:41:59 -0500

Some interesting responses you have received. I think however something 
important has been missed.

On HF frequencies the received signal level is unimportant. What is 
important is the "largest difference" possible between the signal level 
and the noise level. In many cases improving an antenna tends to 
increase both noise and signal received by equal amounts amounts. (I 
should point out that this improvement does help transmitting though as 
at the other end you become a stronger signal relative to noise) A 
ground improvement in your case may reduce some losses but wont affect 
the S/N.

So ask yourself what you would do to increase the S/N ratio. A directive 
  antenna may help, reducing local noise (like from generators etc) will 
too. I would guess that given you are mobile your options are limited. 
There have also been suggestions already about other antenna systems to 
try. If however RX S/N is the most important to you I would try a 
magloop for receive and a dipole or 1/4 wave GP for transmit!

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

OZUser wrote:
> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
> 
> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????
> 
> 
> 


Article: 224201 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allodoxaphobia <bit-bucket@config.com>
Subject: Re: HF Mobile - Grounding Antenna when stationary
Date: 9 May 2006 18:37:11 GMT
Message-ID: <slrne61oe3.29i6.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>
References: <1146965914.944527@teuthos> <9s07j3-dlp.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net>

On Tue, 09 May 2006 12:41:59 -0500, Bob Bob wrote:
> OZUser wrote:
>> As an avid 4WD SUV owner I do a lot of outback travelling (Austrlian
>> Deserts, Cape York, Kimberly Coast) and as such have a Barrett 950 HFradio
>> &Barrett 910 Autotune antenna installed for comms.
>> 
>> Would it be preferable when camped / stationary to earth the vehile to a
>> "ground" ground = what I am looking for is a better receive signal ?????
>
> Some interesting responses you have received. I think however something 
> important has been missed.

Yes, indeed.  Some good fashioned old amateur radio experimenting.

[Top Posting corrected]
Jonesy W3DHJ


Article: 224202 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:58:16 -0500
Message-ID: <20718-4460F458-17@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>
References: <F948g.70137$F_3.11799@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"What Baud rate would be required for a human to copy RTTY by ear?"

 The Baud rate is about twice the bandwidth according to Bell Labs`
Nyquist. Then Shannon, also of Bell Labs came along saying information
could be transferred much faster if the signal to noise were 30 dB or
better.

Using the standard Baudot or Teletypewriter code, about 8.000 words per
minute can be transmitted.

Operators who can copy Teletype by ear are likely to be rare indeed.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 224203 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 21:14:22 -0000
Message-ID: <12621henlh05ga4@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>

In article <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Paladin <kb1ghh@hotmail.com> wrote:

>    Recently....NO MATTER where I position the mag. on the cover, I GET
>a small signal that
>"CAN'T" be squalched away !!!  It's just white noise/static !!!   IF I
>move my handie-talike to around the same area(with-in 10-12 ft.) IT
>ALSO reacts the same way !!     WHAT COULD BE causing this PHENOM ???

I've seen 2-meter spectrum noise from:

-  Cable-TV leakage - worst is around 145.250, apparently due to the
   video carrier leakage on Cable Channel 18.
   
-  Multiple spurs generated by a switching power-supply regulator in
   a Netgear wireless access point / IP router.  The spurs were
   apparently being radiated directly from the PC board, out through
   the case - the power supply lead was adequately choked but this
   didn't stop direct radiation.  Other models of router (including
   one from the same manufacturer) did not exhibit the problem.
   
-  Noise radiated from telephone lines which have DSL networking
   service enabled.  Although the DSL signal is supposed to fall
   entirely within the HF range, I believe that it has significant
   harmonics up into the VHF which are not filtered out by the DSL
   modems.
   
-  Harmonic noise generated by a defective oscillator in an Ethernet
   hub.  This one was a doozie - it drifted through the 2-meter band
   as temperature changed, and it caused horrendous squelch-tail
   buzzing on several repeaters miles away when it drifted through
   their input frequencies.  Apparently it was radiating out through
   the owner's Ethernet cables, and also getting back into the
   building wiring through the power cord.

A device doesn't have to be complex to cause VHF QRM!  Although it
didn't actually cause QRM, I did find another source of possible
interference recently when I tested and repaired a little two-tone
audio oscillator another ham had given me.  It was a simple
battery-powered two-transistor oscillator based on a 1970s article in
QST.  Due to its design (two simple twin-T oscillators using 2N2222
transistors) it was prone to break into a parasitic oscillation at one
point in the audio curve... it was putting out a nice 1 kHz audio
sinewave, with a VHF parasitic around 20 dB lower in amplitude,
wandering around from 130 to 160 MHz.  One ferrite bead on the base
lead of each of the two transistors completely cured the problem.
   
Other people have reported nasty-noisy signals from oscillations in
TV-antenna preamplifiers... these have caused interference to 2-meter
ham operators, aviation band, and even to GPS (see the page at
http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=43404
for a summary).
   
>                                            Can't figure this one
>out.....any ideas what to do ??? please...

Do the "turn off and unplug" bit again, but go even further.  For
starters, try turning off the main breaker for your whole
house/apartment.  This will be a very clear way of telling you whether
the noise source is internal or external.

If it's internal to your home, turn the breaker back on and then start
unplugging every single device in the house (no matter how apparently
harmless) one at a time until the QRM goes away.

If it's external, go hunting.  Get yourself a 2-meter directional beam
antenna (or make one - Google for "tape measure Yagi") and start
DF'ing.

If you track it to a neighbor's house, introduce yourself politely and
explain the problem and try to enlist their cooperation in finding the
source of the emission.

See if you can find someone in your area who has an RF spectrum
analyzer good up to 150 MHz or so.  It can be very instructive to look
at the whole 2-meter band, and see whether you're seeing a single
carrier, broadband noise, or multiple narrowband spurs.  A spectrum
analyzer, hooked to a portable Yagi via a 20' coax, makes a *very*
nice "characterize and locate" tool.

When I helped my city's RACES EC locate the source of some nasty
2-meter RFI which was desquelching his radios and interfering with his
ability to receive simplex, it took about 10 minutes with an
analyzer-and-Yagi combination for me to be able to say "Well, it's
your next-door neighbor's condo, upstairs, in the back, polarized at
around 45 degrees from the vertical. and is multiple spurs at about
50 kHz separation."

The bad news is that on many 2-meter frequencies, there's so much hash
and garbage in urban areas that it's necessary in practice to turn on
a receiver's tone-squelch, and force the receiver to remain muted
until it hear's a repeaters output CTCSS tone.  If your repeater
doesn't put tone on its output, then this won't work, alas.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224204 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <44610792.8010201@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 17:20:18 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu> <0i28g.70098$F_3.9084@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <_86dnQp_25JGLv3ZRVn-tQ@comcast.com>

Dave wrote:
> kd5sak wrote:
> 
> SNIPPED
> 
>>
>> Newbie that I am(Tech, early 2003 and General, mid 2005) , I agree. 
>> And as far as Hi Hi goes, I always figured the early first users of 
>> the term probably meant for it to be read Hee Hee rather than High 
>> High. Again, as a newbie, I profess no great insight, I just express 
>> an opinon. I don't use either the 73 or the Hi Hi in QSOs or EMails, 
>> it strikes me as an affectation, but that may just be my newbie 
>> insecurity speaking.(g)
>>
>> Harold
>> KD5SAK
>>
> 
> HI HI  .... .. .... .. is, please forgive the reference to a hot topic, 
> laughter when operating MORSE CODE [there I said it!!].
> 
> 73, ---.. ...--, is BEST REGARDS in the same ridiculed transmission.
>  mode.
> 
> If we are going to drop the talent for MORSE CODE we should be 100% 
> logical and stop using acronyms that have meaning that are rooted in 
> MORSE CODE such as:
> 
> QRL, QSO, CQ, QRM, QRN, QSB, QSY, QLF, QRS, 73, 88, HI, GD, GE, GM, TNX, 
> DX, etc.
> 
> We should delete reference to RST on our confirmation cards [NOT QSL 
> card]. We should delete GS and use DOLLARS.
> 
> Would someone start a petition to the ARRL that advocates that we should 
> clean up our act?
> 
> 
I suppose there are many "affectations" like OM, or Old Man and FB, or 
Fine Business.  Just to add to the list.

All appear to be derived from CW operations.

I think they're great.

Nothing, especially jargon, is unchanging.  I suspect some CB jargon 
could bleed over.  I must say that "nine pounds" won't be used by me, 
however.

John
AB8WH


Article: 224205 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
From: Signal Chaser <em@il.here>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:15:25 GMT

"an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com: 

> 
> Sinpo Code wrote:
>> Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>> news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>
> 
>>
>> I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>> soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>> slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him a
>> poke.  Disgusting.
>>
> how is any that the ARRL's fault


ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands of
the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me indeed when
I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages were photos of
queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no less.  The ARRL
wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be one big happy
family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death of a once proud
organization, and it turned liberal. 


SC


Article: 224206 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
From: Radio Buff <em@il.here>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3w88g.2090$u4.219@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:15:27 GMT

"kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com: 

> 
> "Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message 
> news:445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>> Radio Buff wrote:
>>
>>> I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
>>>
>>>
>>> SC
>>
>> GOAT
>>
> 
> It's actually a good thing when folks come over from "the Dark Side".
> When new to Hamdom it's almost certain they'll slip up and occasionally
> use their old "jargon". When they correct themselves it's also a good
> thing, since it means they are aware of their faux pas and are working
> at improving their operating procedure and language.
> 
> Harold
> KD5SAK 


I chalked it up to a new op happy about working a new state.  I remember
having the same feelings he had when I was first licensed.  I worked all
states on CW before I ever made a voice contact because Novices weren't
allowed phone priviledges when I got licensed. It was a blast and helped
my code speed so I could upgrade to general with little effort. 

My problem, a lot of new ops aren't leaving old CB operating practices
behind.  That is what will destroy ham radio, The CB like behavior.  

It must be human nature, when you get something for nothing, you don't
appreciate it as much, or try to take care of it the same as something you
had to work for. That's why dumbing down ham tests is bad.  Having a
license doesn't mean anything. 




Article: 224207 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
From: Slow Code <em@il.here>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5w88g.2091$u4.1862@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:15:29 GMT

"Paladin" <kb1ghh@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com: 

> Dear fellow antenna lovers,
>         I have an extra 2m radio(IcomV-8000) in my living room. I use a
> magnet-mount 5/8 wave
> antenna on the radiator cover. I never had any problems reaching the
> local club repeater about
> 15miles away. I only use it to keep "watch" over the repeater so to
> speak,while downstairs
> cooking,cleaning,etc. It always worked very well in that use.
>     Recently....NO MATTER where I position the mag. on the cover, I GET
> a small signal that
> "CAN'T" be squalched away !!!  It's just white noise/static !!!   IF I
> move my handie-talike to around the same area(with-in 10-12 ft.) IT
> ALSO reacts the same way !!     WHAT COULD BE causing this PHENOM ???
> I have changed the power supply.....nothing changes the problem.  I
> shut off the computor......the cable unit.....the T.V.,nothing seems to
> STOP that
> small signal,ONLY on 146.970mhz that it happens.  ONLY that
> signal...and on both 2m radios.  Can't squalch it out....this is
> driving me co-co !!!  The antenna is right next to a picture
> window....but that really doesn't matter 'cause it does it on the
> Handie-talkie,same frequency,day or night.  Can't figure this one
> out.....any ideas what to do ??? please...
> 
> 
>                    73's,  Paladin




You might see if you can get them to change the frequency of the repeater.

SC


Article: 224208 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: cw trolling
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 17:10:15 -0500
Message-ID: <e3r409$k7d$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <e3fvnh$97m$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>   <1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   <e3oaij$bjo$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>


"RHF" <rhf-newsgroups@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> The FCC Outlawed 'Spark' for very valid technical reasons
> at that time and they are still valid today.   The very same
> logic could be used to still justify the continued use of CW
> as an Amateur Operating Mode; even though the requirement
> for proficiency in CW is not used for an Amateur License.
>
> jm2cw ~ RHF


RHF,
  My point was ...this time the FCC is NOT *eliminating* nor *Outlawing CW.
(as far as we know)
Spark *did* suck, but even so there were those that hated CW.

73, Steve, K9DCI




Article: 224209 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:35:32 -0700
Message-ID: <126269t8n8f5da4@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <12621henlh05ga4@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Platt wrote:
> 
> I've seen 2-meter spectrum noise from:
> . . . .

I'll add GPS receivers to that list. I've seen some pretty big spurs on 
2 meters from a couple of units I've owned. But it's not the sort of 
thing that's usually on constantly in a residential area.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 224210 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu> <0i28g.70098$F_3.9084@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <_86dnQp_25JGLv3ZRVn-tQ@comcast.com> <44610792.8010201@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then  the Op corrected himself.
Message-ID: <N198g.68644$_S7.49503@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:51:25 GMT


"jawod" <jawod@fuse.net> wrote in message news:44610792.8010201@fuse.net...
> Dave wrote:
>> kd5sak wrote:
>
> Nothing, especially jargon, is unchanging.  I suspect some CB jargon could 
> bleed over.  I must say that "nine pounds" won't be used by me, however.
>
> John
> AB8WH

Yes, again I agree. I never used such terms when I was a CBer, all those 
years ago. I also didn't attempt the "L'il Abner" language distortions that 
became prevalent on that "band". Even in those days communication was the 
goal for me and my main hobby efforts involved antenna building. Even today, 
though Ham transceiver technology has far outstripped any possible homebrew 
efforts I might wish to try, I can still fiddle about with antennas and do. 
Aside from mobile antennas, the only "storebought" antenna I have is a 
Hustler 5BTV vertical. They're very popular among my local Ham club members, 
probably because we have such good local soil condutivity and they serve 
well ground mounted without radials.

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 224211 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <44613917.7090602@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:51:35 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Signal Chaser wrote:
> "an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com: 
> 
> 
>>Sinpo Code wrote:
>>
>>>Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>>>news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>>
>>
>>>I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>>soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>>slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him a
>>>poke.  Disgusting.
>>>
>>
>>how is any that the ARRL's fault
> 
> 
> 
> ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands of
> the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me indeed when
> I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages were photos of
> queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no less.  The ARRL
> wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be one big happy
> family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death of a once proud
> organization, and it turned liberal. 
> 
> 
> SC
what bullshit

Isn't EVERYONE tired of this thread by now?


Article: 224212 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: mcalhoun@ksu.edu
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Date: 9 May 2006 20:43:50 -0500
Message-ID: <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <1146008591.641742.237030@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4tjt42lg6k5ustfmiljfkpiqdle084d0iq@4ax.com> <96N4g.77517$dW3.54166@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <jtf5g.8087$QP4.6867@fed1read12> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

<< I once made a J-pole from 300-ohm twinlead and tweaked it until it worked
<< OK while hanging from the ceiling, but when I moved it over next to a
<< wood-framed picture window (hung it from the window casing), the SWR went
<< to pot.  Did I do something wrong?

<What kind of metal was behind the window frame?

The house was old enuf that I'm sure it was made of wood, and
since it was a PICTURE window, there were no sash weights, either.

So the question remains:  are J-poles sensitive to nearby materials?

-- 
--Myron A. Calhoun.
Five boxes preserve our freedoms:  soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge
PhD EE (retired).   "Barbershop" tenor.   CDL(PTXS).  W0PBV.   (785) 539-4448
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol)


Article: 224213 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: mcalhoun@ksu.edu
Subject: Re: 3 Wired Antenna Build.
Date: 9 May 2006 20:50:46 -0500
Message-ID: <e3rgtm$bni@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>
References: <1146994748.542651@ftpsrv1>

>The design I have seen is a 3 wired type each side, where the 3 wires join 
>together at each end.
>....[snip]....

Someone mentioned a bowtie, but with just a bit of not-looking-carefully-
enuf, it might be a three-wire folded dipole?

IIRC, put a one-wire (each side) dipole high enuf and its impedance is
about 72 ohms.

Use two wires and get 2x2x72 => 288 ohms (which everyone says matches
300-ohm line).

Use three wires and get 3x3x72 => about 650 ohms, which might be well fed
with open-wire feeders?

I also recall folded dipoles are somewhat more broad-band than single-wire
dipoles.  (Because they are effectively "thicker"?)

Brings up another question:  can folded-dipoles be good multi-band antennas?

-- 
--Myron A. Calhoun.
Five boxes preserve our freedoms:  soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge
PhD EE (retired).   "Barbershop" tenor.   CDL(PTXS).  W0PBV.   (785) 539-4448
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol)


Article: 224214 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Sal M. Onella" <salmonella@food.poisoning.org>
References: <F948g.70137$F_3.11799@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <20718-4460F458-17@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we cancommun...
Message-ID: <e2c8g.8607$QP4.974@fed1read12>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:16:42 -0700


"Richard Harrison" <richardharrison@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20718-4460F458-17@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...
> Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
> "What Baud rate would be required for a human to copy RTTY by ear?"
>
>  The Baud rate is about twice the bandwidth according to Bell Labs`
> Nyquist. Then Shannon, also of Bell Labs came along saying information
> could be transferred much faster if the signal to noise were 30 dB or
> better.
>
> Using the standard Baudot or Teletypewriter code, about 8.000 words per
> minute can be transmitted.

In the heyday of RTTY as I remember it, you could put two 8-channel muxes
(85 Hz AFSK per channel) into one SSB transmitter.  One of the muxes was
at baseband and the other was heterodyned up by about 1800 KHz and
"stacked" on top.  Nyquist might predict 8,000 wpm capability but I never
saw hardware that approached that number.  With QPSK, I dunno ...

>
> Operators who can copy Teletype by ear are likely to be rare indeed.
>

I can recognize a test tape of RY's and I can hear the periodic <CR> <CR>
<LF>
but I can't recognize any of the alphabet, even at 60 WPM (45 baud)




Article: 224215 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Sal M. Onella" <salmonella@food.poisoning.org>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
Message-ID: <U9c8g.8608$QP4.4220@fed1read12>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:24:52 -0700


"Paladin" <kb1ghh@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Dear fellow antenna lovers,
>         I have an extra 2m radio(IcomV-8000) in my living room. I use a
> magnet-mount 5/8 wave
> antenna on the radiator cover. I never had any problems reaching the
> local club repeater about
> 15miles away. I only use it to keep "watch" over the repeater so to
> speak,while downstairs
> cooking,cleaning,etc. It always worked very well in that use.
>     Recently....NO MATTER where I position the mag. on the cover, I GET
> a small signal that
> "CAN'T" be squalched away !!!  It's just white noise/static !!!   IF I
> move my handie-talike to around the same area(with-in 10-12 ft.) IT
> ALSO reacts the same way !!     WHAT COULD BE causing this PHENOM ???
> I have changed the power supply.....nothing changes the problem.  I
> shut off the computor......the cable unit.....the T.V.,nothing seems to
> STOP that
> small signal,ONLY on 146.970mhz that it happens.  ONLY that
> signal...and on both 2m radios.  Can't squalch it out....this is
> driving me co-co !!!  The antenna is right next to a picture
> window....but that really doesn't matter 'cause it does it on the
> Handie-talkie,same frequency,day or night.  Can't figure this one
> out.....any ideas what to do ??? please...
>
>
>                    73's,  Paladin
>

I have it a little bit here and (can't recall) it might be the one I chased
last year.  I went out for a one-on-one T-hunt and ended up back home,
pointing at my own garage door opener.  It's proably LO radiation.

I picked it up in multiple locations, which was a puzzle at first.  But now
I know which houses have a Genie Garage Door Opener  ;-)




Article: 224216 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
Message-ID: <89k2629hh4esd707hon5jn5lrhko22lkji@4ax.com>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:36:15 -0400

On 9 May 2006 13:32:54 -0700, "Paladin" <kb1ghh@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Dear fellow antenna lovers,
>        I have an extra 2m radio(IcomV-8000) in my living room. I use a
>magnet-mount 5/8 wave
>antenna on the radiator cover. I never had any problems reaching the
>local club repeater about
>15miles away. I only use it to keep "watch" over the repeater so to
>speak,while downstairs
>cooking,cleaning,etc. It always worked very well in that use.
>    Recently....NO MATTER where I position the mag. on the cover, I GET
>a small signal that
>"CAN'T" be squalched away !!!  It's just white noise/static !!!   IF I
>move my handie-talike to around the same area(with-in 10-12 ft.) IT
>ALSO reacts the same way !!     WHAT COULD BE causing this PHENOM ???
>I have changed the power supply.....nothing changes the problem.  I
>shut off the computor......the cable unit.....the T.V.,nothing seems to
>STOP that
>small signal,ONLY on 146.970mhz that it happens.  ONLY that
>signal...and on both 2m radios.  Can't squalch it out....this is
>driving me co-co !!!  The antenna is right next to a picture
>window....but that really doesn't matter 'cause it does it on the
>Handie-talkie,same frequency,day or night.  Can't figure this one
>out.....any ideas what to do ??? please...
>
>
>                   73's,  Paladin

I had a similar problem.  I don't remember the frequency it covered,
but it was one of the local repeaters, I think it was 145.41.  It came
up slowly stronger for a few days, and then I found it.  it was a
signal being transmitted by dad's cordless phone base through the
power line so it covered the half of the house that circuit was on.
Once I found it, I had the phone replaced.  


-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224217 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dr.Death" <drdeath555usb@nospam.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:12:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Signal Chaser" <em@il.here> wrote in message 
news:1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> Sinpo Code wrote:
>>> Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>>> news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>> soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>> slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him a
>>> poke.  Disgusting.
>>>
>> how is any that the ARRL's fault
>
>
> ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands of
> the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me indeed when
> I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages were photos of
> queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no less.  The ARRL
> wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be one big happy
> family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death of a once proud
> organization, and it turned liberal.
>
>
> SC

What I don't get is why we are forced to see
homosexuality in areas that have nothing to do with sex, such as the example 
you mentioned. 




Article: 224218 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dr.Death" <drdeath555usb@nospam.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:14:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1262mkq6bjmk8df@corp.supernews.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <zsednQItNOzyhPzZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com>

"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:zsednQItNOzyhPzZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>>>> I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>>> soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>>> slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him a
>>>> poke.  Disgusting.
>>>>
>>> how is any that the ARRL's fault
>>
>>
>> ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands of
>> the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me indeed 
>> when
>> I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages were photos of
>> queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no less.  The ARRL
>> wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be one big happy
>> family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death of a once proud
>> organization, and it turned liberal.
>
> I'll bet you try to pass yourself off as a Christian.... I guess you never 
> really learned some of the most important lessons.
> The first lesson is to treat *EVERYBODY* with the same courtisy and 
> respect that you expect from them.
>
> Welcome to my killfile.
>
> *PLONK*
>
>
I guess you missed the part of the bible dealing with Sodom and Gomorra 
being leveled because of deviant sex. 




Article: 224219 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <nmo262dopas9jd55go8e6j4uid69gsp4ls@4ax.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <1146008591.641742.237030@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4tjt42lg6k5ustfmiljfkpiqdle084d0iq@4ax.com> <96N4g.77517$dW3.54166@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <jtf5g.8087$QP4.6867@fed1read12> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 23:56:31 -0400

On 9 May 2006 20:43:50 -0500, mcalhoun@ksu.edu wrote:

>So the question remains:  are J-poles sensitive to nearby materials?

yes, and also, RF doesn't always saturate an area.

The wire in the j-pole is affected by the insulating material the twin
lead is made from.  Different types have different dimensions for the
j-pole lengths.  

Though it doesn't make sense sometimes, moving an antenna near a wall
may cause a negative effect.  I have that problem at my kids house.
They are hams and I setup a hook in the ceiling to hang a pole.  It
worked, but their mom didn't want it hanging so far from the wall and
moved it against the wall.  It doesn't work.  So we found a compromise
spot near another wall, a corner actually. It works but it is leaning
at about 20 degrees coming from the corner.  

There is also a problem of RF holes.  Mobile operators and HT or
portable operators experience them the most.  It is the cause of
picket-fencing.  The mobile moves from a hot spot to a not-so-hot
spot.  A portable rig can usually find the hot spot or the dead spot
easily.  I can hit the local repeater from inside my room with low
power on my ht.  outside about three feet away, I can't hit it on high
power.  It is further from the wall there.

Good luck
Buck

-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224220 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:58:23 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147227029.330426.301290@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <446164df$0$1016$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:

> Radio Buff wrote:
> 
>>I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
>>
>>
>>SC
> 
> 
> "I got me???"
> 
> And you complain about other Ops?
> 
> Indeed.
> 

Oh come now, it doesn't count, because he was already a ham!  The other 
guy was just a CBer that managed to pass a test!

--------------------------

Let's get a grip on reality here folks.

tom
K0TAR



Article: 224221 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 04:39:07 -0000
Message-ID: <1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>

In article <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu>,  <mcalhoun@ksu.edu> wrote:

><What kind of metal was behind the window frame?
>
>The house was old enuf that I'm sure it was made of wood, and
>since it was a PICTURE window, there were no sash weights, either.
>
>So the question remains:  are J-poles sensitive to nearby materials?

That depends on the materials.  Conductive, or lossy-dielectric
materials seem to have a significant effect especially when located
near the high-impedance points.

When I built a ladder-line J-pole and hung it next to my house's
outside wall, it de-tuned quite badly.  Its performance stank so badly
that I could barely reach a nearby repeater.

When I hung it by an inside wall, it was not de-tuned enough to affect
the radio's performance appreciably (I didn't have an MFJ meter at the
time and so don't know the actual degree of de-tuning).  I was able to
hit the repeater quite well even though the antenna was further inside
the house.

The first (outside) wall was stucco... with embedded chicken wire.
The second (inner) wall was drywall and lumber.

I suspect that exterior brick, or stone, or wet wood, would fall
somewhere in between the two in terms of de-tuning potential.

My guess is that the classic J-pole may be somewhat more vulnerable to
being de-tuned by nearby materials than a center-fed half-wave
radiator.  The quarter-wave matching section is often fairly critical
of adjustment - I've read reports that even small changes in the
configuration of the upper potion of the matching section (e.g.
material near the open end of the stub, or changes in the spacing) can
cause some fairly large changes in the J-pole's feedpoint impedance.
Standard J-pole antennas seem to work most stably when built of rigid
materials and mounted "in the clear".

I haven't read any reports of actual experiments which attempted to
quantify the tuning stability of the classic J-pole, compared with
variants like the Arrow (a.k.a. Cebik's nontypical design), the
open-sleeve, and the sperrtopf coaxial design, or compared with a
center-fed dipole or other varieties of halfwave radiator.  It'd be an
interesting study to try to put together.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224222 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Buck <not@this.time>
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <apu2625sflkql3nfec8dagkb22r6d7f4g4@4ax.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 01:37:23 -0400

On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:39:07 -0000, dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
wrote:

>My guess is that the classic J-pole may be somewhat more vulnerable to
>being de-tuned by nearby materials than a center-fed half-wave
>radiator.  

My experience at my kids' place is that it has the same effect on the
vertical dipole as it does with the jpole.  I have a dipole I created
by using wire inside a cpvc pipe.  The coax was rolled up to form the
choke balun.  The dipole antenna has the same problem with hitting the
local repeaters as the jpole did.  In the same places, the two
antennas had such similar effects that I could literally not tell a
difference either in audio or signal strength as displayed by the
radio.  SUper J-Poles, on the other hand, perform much better than
either the j-pole or the vertical dipole.  


-- 
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW


Article: 224223 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Fred <freddyr1928@ll.net>
Subject: Re: balme the posters
Message-ID: <nf2362530i4op7sj0a9ihfiedo90csmlnu@4ax.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 06:37:51 GMT

On 9 May 2006 17:58:39 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>jawod wrote:
>> Signal Chaser wrote:
>> > "an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> > news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>> >
>
>
>> >
>> > SC
>> what bullshit
>>
>> Isn't EVERYONE tired of this thread by now?
>not the gay bashers they never gettired

How do you balme a poster? Is that some sort of sick fag voodoo?


Article: 224224 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 07:37:04 -0500
Message-ID: <17534-4461DE70-41@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net>
References: <e2c8g.8607$QP4.974@fed1read12>

Sal M. Onella wrote:
"I can recognize a test tape of <CR> <CR> <LF> but I can`t recognize any
of the alphabet, even at 60 WPM (45 Baud)"

Back when AT&T was the American Telephone and Telegraph Company, they
leased 30-Baud battery powered circuits suitable for manual telegraphy
or low-speed data. Biggest customers were the military and FAA.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 224225 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "J-P. Scherrer" <jpscherrer@infomaniak.ch>
Subject: HV7CX HF mobile antenna ?
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 15:44:28 +0200
Message-ID: <4461ee3d$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>

Hi ! Does anybody ever tried (or uses) this antenna ?

TNX in advance for any tips !

73's de F4JOC /Jean-Pierre 




Article: 224226 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <ubn8g.8765$k%2.4642@trnddc03>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:57:30 GMT


"Mike Speed" <mike8s2@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
>> What's the purpose of ham radio, To have fun talking about rigs and
>> weather, or to be able to communicate?
>>
>> To be able to communicate when no one else can communicate and to advance
>> radio knowledge & theory?
>>
>> What does part 97 say about this?   Why does the ARRL ignore it?
>>
>> When CW is lost, new hams will be just like CB'ers and SWL's, or some
>> other lower life form of radio hobbiest. You name it.
>
> You stupid Fucks - don't you kow a troll when you see one!  Jesus
> Christ!
>
Troll, or no troll.....it is not unreasonable to expect those of all ages to 
read this newsgroup.  Accordingly, my expectation of this group is to limit 
the language in your posts to the type of language you would use on the air.
--Wayne
W5GIE 




Article: 224227 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Fred <freddyr1928@ll.net>
Subject: Re: balme the posters
Message-ID: <hg94625e6c15g7pc658of0p2bup0uohf0r@4ax.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <nf2362530i4op7sj0a9ihfiedo90csmlnu@4ax.com> <1147277737.679511.166140@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:43:40 GMT

On 10 May 2006 09:15:37 -0700, "an old freind"
<kb9rqz_ars@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Fred wrote:
>> On 9 May 2006 17:58:39 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >jawod wrote:
>> >> Signal Chaser wrote:
>> >> > "an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> > news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > SC
>> >> what bullshit
>> >>
>> >> Isn't EVERYONE tired of this thread by now?
>> >not the gay bashers they never gettired
>>
>> How do you balme a poster? Is that some sort of sick fag voodoo?
>
>you don't know my god you aredumber than I thought

If I am aredumber then please tell me what that means in
cock-in-the-mouth-speak. I don't understand the voodoo fag language
that you are using.


Article: 224228 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Allisonnospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <pce462d20i08009o02h9ipg1navtchpufi@4ax.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <1146008591.641742.237030@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4tjt42lg6k5ustfmiljfkpiqdle084d0iq@4ax.com> <96N4g.77517$dW3.54166@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <jtf5g.8087$QP4.6867@fed1read12> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <T9KdnSWZtrQgb_zZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 19:06:31 GMT

On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:03:43 -0600, jimbo <jimbo62@spamex.com> wrote:

>mcalhoun@ksu.edu wrote:
>> << I once made a J-pole from 300-ohm twinlead and tweaked it until it worked
>> << OK while hanging from the ceiling, but when I moved it over next to a
>> << wood-framed picture window (hung it from the window casing), the SWR went
>> << to pot.  Did I do something wrong?
>> 
>> <What kind of metal was behind the window frame?
>> 
>> The house was old enuf that I'm sure it was made of wood, and
>> since it was a PICTURE window, there were no sash weights, either.
>> 
>> So the question remains:  are J-poles sensitive to nearby materials?
>> 
>
>My limited experience with three J-Poles indicates that they are very 
>sensitive to nearby materials. I tried tuning in my shop which is 
>fairly cluttered and in the basement of a stucco finished townhouse. I 
>used thin rope to hang the J-Poles from an overhead floor joist. 

Here in the east the underlay for stucco is often wire lathe.  Imagine
what a wall of sheetmetal will do to any antenna.

>Changing the location by only several inches changed the SWR. I found 
>a spot about four feet from the nearest object which gave the lowest 
>SWR. A ladder line J-pole was still very difficult to tune and it 
>changed significantly when it was moved to the attic. A copper J-Pole 
>was easier to tune but it also changed when it was moved to the attic. 
>The Arrow end fed was "store bought" so I didn't make any adjustments 
>in the basement. It had a reasonable SWR in the basement and it didn't 
>change when it was moved to the attic.

The majik distance at 2m for most antennas is not less than 4 ft (half
wavelength approx) or 80in (full wavelength) or more.

>
>I did some more tuning of the copper J-Pole on my deck. SWR changed 
>with location, even though the deck is fairly open. The best SWR was 
>with the J-Pole in a 5 gallon pickle crock sitting near the center of 
>the deck.

Often there is more metal or west wood than many think and also
interaction with earth if very near the ground.

Allison


Article: 224229 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Michael Coslo <mjc5@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:28:13 -0400
Message-ID: <e3tict$1m4c$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3q4v1$1bvu$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu> <bqd162lu2c83cgfljvpv01llepb85reare@4ax.com>

Bill Turner wrote:
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
> 
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 09:20:33 -0400, Michael Coslo <mjc5@psu.edu>
>  wrote:
> 
>> do not have much of an argument when they complain about a person 
>> referring to S-units as "pounds".......
>>
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> 
> Couldn't agree more. Everybody knows S-units are metric. :-)


	Snort!

	- 73 de Mike KB3EIA - ;^)


Article: 224230 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:46:38 -0500
Message-ID: <e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>


"Jon KÃ¥re Hellan" <dev@null.com> wrote in message
news:1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no...
> "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> writes:
>
> > OOPS! Jon,
> >    IF it is "end-fed" is isn't a "di-pole".  It is just a half wave.  I
> > guess it is technically a monopole.
>
> Sort of, sort of. The feed point is actually in the middle of the half
> wave. Traditionally, it's called coaxial sleeve antenna.

    OK, perhaps I missed the full reference.  I read "end fed dipole" and
went from that.  The sleeve dipole is still a dipole (I have one for 2M) and
is still center fed.  The lower half (lower, hollow,  quarter wave with the
t-line passing through it) is viewed as a "choke" by some as well.  You can
do some mental games with your models and take the sleve and spread it out
into a cone, then a plane and say that the sleeve dipole is sort of a
configuration of a 1/4 wave ground plane of a different color.  Various
analogies are possible depending on your particular way of understanding the
basics.  This is what I call "mental models".

That Microwave article is showing different concepts, but along the same
line of the "non-sleve" antenna.  you can take a coax, strip off 1/4 wave of
outer to leave 1/4 wave on inner projecting out the end, then do various
things with gaps in the the shield (whthout adding a classical sleeve) and
get radiation and minimize coax radiation  ( except were you want it, or
perhaps more correctly, where it helps it to be a better antenna (for
whatever charasteristic you want in the first place).).

Rolf Brevig's choke is something I don't think I've seen before, but I
understand the concept.  I can't tell, but I suspect it is common "1/4 wave
stub", no?

73, Steve, K9DCI



Except
> originally, the sleeve was outside the coax braid. In this variation,
> due to LA1IC Rolf Brevig, the sleeve is the outside of the coax, and
> the end of the sleeve is a choke. He's written about it in English in
> CQ, 1999, Aug pg 22. The version in Norwegian is on the web at
> http://www.la2t.org/teknikk/vertikal2m.html.
>
> I found an article from Microwave Journal about a very similar
> concept: http://www.ansoft.com/news/articles/04.05_MWJ.pdf. They use
> different kinds of choke, since they're at much higher
> frequencies. They report performance very similar to a dipole.
>
> 73 de LA4RT Jon




Article: 224231 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:49:08 -0500
Message-ID: <e3tn4l$s3b$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>

"Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> wrote in message
news:e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com...
>
> "Jon KÃ¥re Hellan" <dev@null.com> wrote in message
> news:1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no...
> > "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> writes:
> >
> > > OOPS! Jon,
> > >    IF it is "end-fed" is isn't a "di-pole".  It is just a half wave.
I
> > > guess it is technically a monopole.
> >
> > Sort of, sort of. The feed point is actually in the middle of the half
> > wave. Traditionally, it's called coaxial sleeve antenna.
>
>     OK, perhaps I missed the full reference.  I read "end fed dipole" and
> went from that.  The sleeve dipole is still a dipole (I have one for 2M)
and
> is still center fed.  The lower half (lower, hollow,  quarter wave with
the
> t-line passing through it) is viewed as a "choke" by some as well.  You
can
> do some mental games with your models and take the sleve and spread it out
> into a cone, then a plane and say that the sleeve dipole is sort of a
> configuration of a 1/4 wave ground plane of a different color.  Various
> analogies are possible depending on your particular way of understanding
the
> basics.  This is what I call "mental models".
>
> That Microwave article is showing different concepts, but along the same
> line of the "non-sleve" antenna.  you can take a coax, strip off 1/4 wave
of
> outer to leave 1/4 wave on inner projecting out the end, then do various
> things with gaps in the the shield (whthout adding a classical sleeve) and
> get radiation and minimize coax radiation  ( except were you want it, or
> perhaps more correctly, where it helps it to be a better antenna (for
> whatever charasteristic you want in the first place).).
>
> Rolf Brevig's choke is something I don't think I've seen before, but I
> understand the concept.  I can't tell, but I suspect it is common "1/4
wave
> stub", no?
>
> 73, Steve, K9DCI

Jon,
I also just realized that the choke is very similar to the Microwave
article's concept of simply opening the shield.  I think that was your
point.
73, Steve, K9DCI

>
>
>
> Except
> > originally, the sleeve was outside the coax braid. In this variation,
> > due to LA1IC Rolf Brevig, the sleeve is the outside of the coax, and
> > the end of the sleeve is a choke. He's written about it in English in
> > CQ, 1999, Aug pg 22. The version in Norwegian is on the web at
> > http://www.la2t.org/teknikk/vertikal2m.html.
> >
> > I found an article from Microwave Journal about a very similar
> > concept: http://www.ansoft.com/news/articles/04.05_MWJ.pdf. They use
> > different kinds of choke, since they're at much higher
> > frequencies. They report performance very similar to a dipole.
> >
> > 73 de LA4RT Jon
>
>




Article: 224232 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Q <Q@nowhere.com>
Subject: Re: cw trolling
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 22:14:39 -0000
Message-ID: <1264pefav054pa7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3fvnh$97m$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <e3oaij$bjo$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <e3r409$k7d$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>

"Steve N." wrote:
> 
> "RHF" <rhf-newsgroups@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > The FCC Outlawed 'Spark' for very valid technical reasons
> > at that time and they are still valid today.   The very same
> > logic could be used to still justify the continued use of CW
> > as an Amateur Operating Mode; even though the requirement
> > for proficiency in CW is not used for an Amateur License.
> >
> > jm2cw ~ RHF
> 
> RHF,
>   My point was ...this time the FCC is NOT *eliminating* nor *Outlawing CW.
> (as far as we know)
> Spark *did* suck, but even so there were those that hated CW.
> 
> 73, Steve, K9DCI

I just passed my tech exam and am looking 
forward to the CW test. It certainly exercises 
a part of my brain that seems to need that 
kind of excercise. I'm glad it's still a requirement.
It all seems to balance out.

73




Article: 224233 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
From: Kristal Klear <kk@klear.mail>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147227029.330426.301290@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <446164df$0$1016$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1147301232.062904.118380@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6Fu8g.980$x4.725@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:26:58 GMT

hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1147301232.062904.118380@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: 

> 
> Tom Ring wrote:
>> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > Radio Buff wrote:
>> >
>> >>I'm afraid we can expect more and more of this as time goes on.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>SC
>> >
>> >
>> > "I got me???"
>> >
>> > And you complain about other Ops?
>> >
>> > Indeed.
>> >
>>
>> Oh come now, it doesn't count, because he was already a ham!  The other
>> guy was just a CBer that managed to pass a test!
>>
>> --------------------------
>>
>> Let's get a grip on reality here folks.
>> 
>> tom
>> K0TAR
> 
> Good point.  My mistake.


Welcome to reality.

SC



Article: 224234 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
From: Radio Buff <em@il.here>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:26:49 GMT

"Mike Speed" <mike8s2@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com: 

> 
>> What's the purpose of ham radio, To have fun talking about rigs and
>> weather, or to be able to communicate?
>>
>> To be able to communicate when no one else can communicate and to
>> advance radio knowledge & theory?
>>
>> What does part 97 say about this?   Why does the ARRL ignore it?
>>
>> When CW is lost, new hams will be just like CB'ers and SWL's, or some
>> other lower life form of radio hobbiest. You name it.
> 
> You stupid Fucks - don't you kow a troll when you see one!  Jesus
> Christ!



Tnx for the reminder, I almost forgot.

As ham radio test standards have lowered over the years, I've noted a
marked increase in the amount of obscenity, profanity, and indecency.  

RB


Article: 224235 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
From: Short Circuit <em@il.here>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:26:55 GMT

"Dr.Death" <drdeath555usb@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com: 

> "Signal Chaser" <em@il.here> wrote in message 
> news:1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> "an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>
>>> Sinpo Code wrote:
>>>> Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>>>> news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>>> soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>>> slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him
>>>> a poke.  Disgusting.
>>>>
>>> how is any that the ARRL's fault
>>
>>
>> ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands
>> of the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me
>> indeed when I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages
>> were photos of queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no
>> less.  The ARRL wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be
>> one big happy family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death
>> of a once proud organization, and it turned liberal.
>>
>>
>> SC
> 
> What I don't get is why we are forced to see
> homosexuality in areas that have nothing to do with sex, such as the
> example you mentioned. 


Radical militant homosexuality coupled with uncontroled liberalism. 

sc


Article: 224236 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then the Op corrected himself.
From: Radio Buff <no.em@il.box>
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <3w88g.2090$u4.219@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <M998g.84789$dW3.76743@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <4Fu8g.979$x4.338@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:26:56 GMT

Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:M998g.84789$dW3.76743@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com: 

> Radio Buff wrote:
>> It must be human nature, when you get something for nothing, you don't
>> appreciate it as much, or try to take care of it the same as something
>> you had to work for. That's why dumbing down ham tests is bad.  Having
>> a license doesn't mean anything. 
> 
> If we made getting a driver's license more difficult, would
> people appreciate it more?


Easier EE exams will produce better engineers? 

SC


Article: 224237 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Galen, W8LNA" <w8lna@arrl.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 00:10:00 GMT

Radio Buff wrote:
> 
> As ham radio test standards have lowered over the years, I've noted a
> marked increase in the amount of obscenity, profanity, and indecency.  
> 
> RB

At the same time the price of gasoline has gone up, the minimum wage has 
gone up, the stock market has gone up but in just about all areas of 
society mutual respect and courtesy have gone down.

I think it has very little if anything at all to do with Morse code.

W8LNA


Article: 224238 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <oTv8g.3672$fb2.2188@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 00:50:28 GMT


"Galen, W8LNA" <w8lna@arrl.net> wrote in message 
news:shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny...
> Radio Buff wrote:
>>
>> As ham radio test standards have lowered over the years, I've noted a
>> marked increase in the amount of obscenity, profanity, and indecency.  RB
>
> At the same time the price of gasoline has gone up, the minimum wage has 
> gone up, the stock market has gone up but in just about all areas of 
> society mutual respect and courtesy have gone down.
>
> I think it has very little if anything at all to do with Morse code.
>
> W8LNA

When I was born (1-10-33) there were approximately 130,000,000 Americans. I 
think we are approaching 300,000,000 now. I'm still relatively polite, I 
think that may be why I get so many funny looks when I speak
to folks. Poor as we were, I think I liked the 30s and early 40s a whole lot 
better. Main thing I've noticed about the more recent citizens Is that there 
have never been so many with such high self esteem and so little reason
for it. (G) I'm a relatively recently licensed Ham (Tech-2002, Gen'l-2005) 
Had no real interest in CW but realized I had to pass the test to advance 
beyond the no-code Tech level (Besides, I figgered actually having passed 
even the elementary 5 WPM CW test would eventually be a prideful thing.)

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 224239 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: strange squelch acting.....
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 00:51:31 -0000
Message-ID: <12652kjaqqu1id7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <12621henlh05ga4@corp.supernews.com> <1147270054.009561.144550@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>

In article <1147270054.009561.144550@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
Paladin <kb1ghh@hotmail.com> wrote:

>David............Thank you for your "leads".  I will follow them,one by
>one to understand "WHY" this is happening.  OF ALL the frequencies, why
>did it have to be "this one"????  Any other,I could live with it...no
>problem.  

I suspect it's probably a derivative of Murphy's Law ;-)

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224240 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 10:05:16 +0900
Message-ID: <e3u2if$1j2$1@news2.kornet.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny> <oTv8g.3672$fb2.2188@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>


"kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:oTv8g.3672$fb2.2188@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Galen, W8LNA" <w8lna@arrl.net> wrote in message 
> news:shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny...
>> Radio Buff wrote:
>>>
>>> As ham radio test standards have lowered over the years, I've noted a
>>> marked increase in the amount of obscenity, profanity, and indecency. 
>>> RB
>>
>> At the same time the price of gasoline has gone up, the minimum wage has 
>> gone up, the stock market has gone up but in just about all areas of 
>> society mutual respect and courtesy have gone down.
>>
>> I think it has very little if anything at all to do with Morse code.
>>
>> W8LNA
>
> When I was born (1-10-33) there were approximately 130,000,000 Americans. 
> I think we are approaching 300,000,000 now. I'm still relatively polite, I 
> think that may be why I get so many funny looks when I speak
> to folks. Poor as we were, I think I liked the 30s and early 40s a whole 
> lot better. Main thing I've noticed about the more recent citizens Is that 
> there have never been so many with such high self esteem and so little 
> reason
> for it. (G) I'm a relatively recently licensed Ham (Tech-2002, Gen'l-2005) 
> Had no real interest in CW but realized I had to pass the test to advance 
> beyond the no-code Tech level (Besides, I figgered actually having passed 
> even the elementary 5 WPM CW test would eventually be a prideful thing.)
>
> Harold
> KD5SAK

I'm a couple decades younger than you (my mother was born in '33), but I 
have sure seen a massive change in societal attitudes since I was young. 
Used to be that people understood the concept of earning what they get out 
of life, now everyone seems to think they're entitled to anything they want 
for free. Kind of sad, really.





Article: 224241 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "kd5sak" <kd5sak@sbcglobal.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny> <oTv8g.3672$fb2.2188@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <e3u2if$1j2$1@news2.kornet.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <jww8g.3691$fb2.2393@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 01:34:07 GMT


"Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com> wrote in message 
news:e3u2if$1j2$1@news2.kornet.net...
>
> I'm a couple decades younger than you (my mother was born in '33), but I 
> have sure seen a massive change in societal attitudes since I was young. 
> Used to be that people understood the concept of earning what they get out 
> of life, now everyone seems to think they're entitled to anything they 
> want for free. Kind of sad, really.
>
>

Yessum, I agree. I always hated to work, but I always understood that it was 
something I had to do.
I was a high school dropout, but after I got out of the Army I picked up two 
college degrees. I never really amounted to much, but did pretty well for a 
dropout, even taught Industrial Arts in a Dallas Junior High
School for eleven years. Finished my working years as a Design Drafter (CAD) 
for Halliburton.

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 224242 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Owen Duffy <owen@no.where>
Subject: Re: New thread, LMR400 resistance in a loop
Message-ID: <g9b562hedd50vltjc7gpnmdfjv1rlpjnib@4ax.com>
References: <1147206774.753662.313250@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <12621henlh05ga4@corp.supernews.com> <126269t8n8f5da4@corp.supernews.com> <Xns97BF15587A596doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159> <1147282453.462947.145900@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 03:32:26 GMT

On 10 May 2006 10:34:13 -0700, "K7ITM" <k7itm@msn.com> wrote:

>LMR400 outer conductor should be a bit less than 10 milliohms per foot
>at 4MHz.

So... close to 0.140 ohms loss restance for the loop conductor, and if
the loop is resonated by the o/c stub which presents an impedance of
around 0.14+j116, and taking Richard's estimate of Rr at 0.002, the
the efficiency of the main loop (ignoring coupling loop / circuits) is
about 0.002/(0.14+0.14+0.002), less than 1%, or about 21dB of loss.

It seems that the convenience of the TL loop / capacitor comes at a
significance expense.

Owen

>
>Rule of thumb:  for copper, assuming thickness at least a couple of
>skin depths, RF resistance in ohms per thousand feet is about
>sqrt(freq(MHz))/(diameter(inches)).  Aluminum will run 25% more or so.
>I've assumed the aluminum foil shield of the LMR400 is at least 3 mils
>thick, and I've neglected the overbraid.
>
>Cheers,
>Tom
--


Article: 224243 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Sal M. Onella" <salmonella@food.poisoning.org>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Message-ID: <kCy8g.12623$QP4.5329@fed1read12>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 20:57:04 -0700


"Dave Platt" <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote in message
news:1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com...


< snip >

> I haven't read any reports of actual experiments which attempted to
> quantify the tuning stability of the classic J-pole ...

< snip >

That, sir is about to change:

I wondered about the effect of mast material, so I took a freshly built
j-pole and mounted it in the clear.  I noted the XMIT reflected power (low)
and moved a ten-foot piece of galvanized steel mast around the antenna,  I
found I had to get within about an inch to see the reflected power increase.

Next, I found a repeater with nearly continuous chatter and connected the
j-pole through an attenuator to my radio.  I set the attenuator so the
received audio was very noisy -- another dB or two and the conversation was
unreadable.  That same piece of mast material had essentially the same
effect:  had to get really close to louse up the antenna's performance.

That said, if I take a j-pole and walk around with it, periodically
measuring the reflected power,  I will see physical locations where it bumps
up.  That's probably not detuning;  it's probably reflected power off a wall
or fence, which could be what's happening in the OP's attic.  (Navy ship
radars' reflected power monitors will "bump up" every time the antenna
rotates past the mast or some other bit of ship's structure.)

Is this great science?  No.  Is it worth noting?  I hope so.




Article: 224244 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Fred <freddyr1928@ll.net>
Subject: Re: balme the posters
Message-ID: <r1n562hpmbp8f4pn1tmabavq5jdj3eme91@4ax.com>
References: <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <nf2362530i4op7sj0a9ihfiedo90csmlnu@4ax.com> <1147277737.679511.166140@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <hg94625e6c15g7pc658of0p2bup0uohf0r@4ax.com> <1147290608.422762.49480@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 06:42:17 GMT

On 10 May 2006 12:50:08 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Fred wrote:
>> On 10 May 2006 09:15:37 -0700, "an old freind"
>> <kb9rqz_ars@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>
>> >> How do you balme a poster? Is that some sort of sick fag voodoo?
>> >
>> >you don't know my god you aredumber than I thought
>>
>> If I am aredumber then please tell me what that means in
>> cock-in-the-mouth-speak. I don't understand the voodoo fag language
>> that you are using.
>
>like i said you aredumber than I thought

Now that you have admitted that you are infatuated with me, I'll
forgive you for your shy, pathetic attempts at flirting with me.
Still, I have no idea what you are saying. Learn to spell and please
learn to type. Otherwise you are almost too pathetic to mock.


Article: 224245 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <44631A84.9030802@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 07:05:40 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com> <3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Short Circuit wrote:
> "Dr.Death" <drdeath555usb@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com: 
> 
> 
>>"Signal Chaser" <em@il.here> wrote in message 
>>news:1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>"an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sinpo Code wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>>>>soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>>>>slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him
>>>>>a poke.  Disgusting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>how is any that the ARRL's fault
>>>
>>>
>>>ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands
>>>of the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me
>>>indeed when I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages
>>>were photos of queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no
>>>less.  The ARRL wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be
>>>one big happy family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death
>>>of a once proud organization, and it turned liberal.
>>>
>>>
>>>SC
>>
>>What I don't get is why we are forced to see
>>homosexuality in areas that have nothing to do with sex, such as the
>>example you mentioned. 
> 
> 
> 
> Radical militant homosexuality coupled with uncontroled liberalism. 
> 
> sc
It's enough to make a Nazi cry


Article: 224246 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 07:10:36 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com> <3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1265cea4sqoqe7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <671c8$44631bd7$453d9423$7173@FUSE.NET>

Dr.Death wrote:
> "Short Circuit" <em@il.here> wrote in message 
> news:3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> 
>>"Dr.Death" <drdeath555usb@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>
>>>"Signal Chaser" <em@il.here> wrote in message
>>>news:1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>>"an old friend" <kb9rqz@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>news:1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sinpo Code wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Lancer <lancer@rock.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't remember who was all in it, but one guy kept dropping the
>>>>>>soldering iron on the ground in front of people, then he'd bend over
>>>>>>slowly to pick it up again like he was hoping someone might give him
>>>>>>a poke.  Disgusting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>how is any that the ARRL's fault
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>ARRL threw principle out the window when they caved in to the demands
>>>>of the Lambda Amateur Radio Club (LARC).  It was a sad day for me
>>>>indeed when I opened my beloved QST magazine and there on the pages
>>>>were photos of queers on a Tropical DXpedition, and in living color no
>>>>less.  The ARRL wanted us to embrace a sick perverted lifestyle and be
>>>>one big happy family.  To me, it was the spark that signaled the death
>>>>of a once proud organization, and it turned liberal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>SC
>>>
>>>What I don't get is why we are forced to see
>>>homosexuality in areas that have nothing to do with sex, such as the
>>>example you mentioned.
>>
>>
>>Radical militant homosexuality coupled with uncontroled liberalism.
>>
>>sc
> 
> 
> What is sad is that in California they deny the Boy Scouts public park 
> access, but it is OK for gays to have public sex in the same parks without 
> fear of being arrested. 
> 
> 
I hear tell that, in Massachusetts, they let CATHOLICS vote!


Article: 224247 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Q <Q@nowhere.com>
Subject: Re: cw trolling
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 12:23:19 -0000
Message-ID: <1266b5n4lup0ob6@corp.supernews.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3fvnh$97m$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <e3oaij$bjo$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <e3r409$k7d$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1264pefav054pa7@corp.supernews.com> <VEu8g.972$x4.456@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

slow Code wrote:
> 
> Q <Q@nowhere.com> wrote in news:1264pefav054pa7@corp.supernews.com:
> 
> > "Steve N." wrote:
> >>
> >> "RHF" <rhf-newsgroups@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >> > The FCC Outlawed 'Spark' for very valid technical reasons
> >> > at that time and they are still valid today.   The very same
> >> > logic could be used to still justify the continued use of CW
> >> > as an Amateur Operating Mode; even though the requirement
> >> > for proficiency in CW is not used for an Amateur License.
> >> >
> >> > jm2cw ~ RHF
> >>
> >> RHF,
> >>   My point was ...this time the FCC is NOT *eliminating* nor *Outlawing
> >>   CW.
> >> (as far as we know)
> >> Spark *did* suck, but even so there were those that hated CW.
> >>
> >> 73, Steve, K9DCI
> >
> > I just passed my tech exam and am looking
> > forward to the CW test. It certainly exercises
> > a part of my brain that seems to need that
> > kind of excercise. I'm glad it's still a requirement.
> > It all seems to balance out.
> >
> > 73
> 
> Good luck to you my friend.  It will be a pleasure to work you on HF.
> 
> Congrats on getting your Tech too.
> 

Thanks. 

I'm trying out the shareware program "nucode" 
right now. Is this a recommeded way to learn CW?

My long term plan is also to pass the General exam,
then build my own HF CW receiver, and then later 
try transmitting low power to see how far I can 
go on an empty tank. 










Article: 224248 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: =?utf-8?b?Sm9uIEvDpXJlIEhlbGxhbg==?= <dev@null.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: 11 May 2006 14:53:57 +0200
Message-ID: <1m7j4sd8nu.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <e3tn4l$s3b$1@avnika.corp.mot.com>

"Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> writes:

> "Steve N." <stuevue.nouskuowuicuz@moutouroula.com> wrote in message
> news:e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com...
> >
> > Rolf Brevig's choke is something I don't think I've seen before, but I
> > understand the concept.  I can't tell, but I suspect it is common "1/4
> wave
> > stub", no?

A 1/4 wave stub would work better, but be less simple to
fabricate. This design is trivial. It's just a coiled length of coax.

> I also just realized that the choke is very similar to the Microwave
> article's concept of simply opening the shield.  I think that was your
> point.

That was my point. But I now see that we're putting it at a high
impedence point, so the isolation is going to be far from perfect.

Anyway, my *real* point was that this was a useful antenna. Carry one
rolled up in your pocket and hang it from a tree to extend the range
of your HT. Cut one for 156.8 MHz and keep on your sailboat in case
you're dismasted. Etc.

73
LA4RT Jon


Article: 224249 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Frank" <ve6cb@nospam.telus.net>
References: <1146933351.476896.129780@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   <Kxd7g.1668$Qq.511@clgrps12>   <1147113726.994153.85150@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1147333417.610903.220470@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: question: NEC2 w/ ground parms.
Message-ID: <x8H8g.6217$zn1.5161@clgrps13>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 13:39:41 GMT

"Arie" <4nec2@gmx.net> wrote in message 
news:1147333417.610903.220470@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> rjtucke wrote:
>
>> Per emailed request, here is my deck:
>
> etc...
>
> Took a short look at your data. Did not have any (GN) difficulties
> running it. (btw the negative GN value is used when running the model
> using a freq-loop/sweep). However it showed up you model is largely
> unreliable due to the large segment length differences at the end of
> you 'dipole'. When running an average-gain test you will also notice a
> value of 0.35, indicating a largely unreliable model.
>
> Arie.

SIG < zero is new to me, but I see it is mentioned in the NEC users
manual.  Segmenting tags 1, 2, & 3 at 201 fixes the Average
gain test.  Not sure if you can apply segment length tapering to speed up
the program.

Interesting design: VSWR < 2.5:1 over 1 MHz, Zin nominal 600 ohms,
fr ~ 6.8 MHz.

Frank 




Article: 224250 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   <ubn8g.8765$k%2.4642@trnddc03> <1147279181.692670.292110@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <DgI8g.10097$k%2.5837@trnddc03>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 14:56:35 GMT


"an old freind" <kb9rqz_ars@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1147279181.692670.292110@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wayne wrote:
>> "Mike Speed" <mike8s2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>
>> > You stupid Fucks - don't you kow a troll when you see one!  Jesus
>> > Christ!
>> >
>> Troll, or no troll.....it is not unreasonable to expect those of all ages 
>> to
>> read this newsgroup.  Accordingly, my expectation of this group is to 
>> limit
>> the language in your posts to the type of language you would use on the 
>> air.
>
> thenyou are foolish
>
> this is not on the air and indeed you can see worse on comercail tv
>
> grow up
>> --Wayne
>> W5GIE
>
Grow up?  OK, even I am amused by that one.

Nevertheless, it is reasonable to expect that a technical forum representing 
an amateur radio subject, have higher standards than cable TV language.
Wayne
W5GIE




Article: 224251 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 15:38:04 GMT
Message-ID: <e3vl4m$pdn$1@eskinews.eskimo.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <5bd162l54g4id7pouog2pt4ocavgl82pso@4ax.com> <e3qffj$h55$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <F948g.70137$F_3.11799@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

In article <F948g.70137$F_3.11799@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
Cecil Moore  <mycall@hotmail.com> wrote:
>GregS wrote: 
>> Did anybody learn RTTY ?
>
>Now there's a real challenge. What baud rate would be required
>for a human being to copy RTTY by ear?

For isolated characters, a good ear could probably differentiate them
with 22 millisecond and 20 millisecond bit times (45.5? and 50 Baud).
I had a friend who said his uncle could do that.

But if the characters ran together, especially with a 1 or 2 bit stop
time, your brain would have no way to seperate them.  Neither can some
simple hardware decoders.

Mark Zenier  mzenier@eskimo.com  
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)



Article: 224252 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Vito" <vito@crosslink.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 12:51:21 -0400
Message-ID: <44636b98$0$22188@dingus.crosslink.net>

"Silent Key" <cw.h@m.bands>
> When CW is lost, new hams will be just like CB'ers and SWL's, or some
> other lower life form of radio hobbiest. You name it.
>
Let's use proper nomenclature.  There is little danger of CW going away.  What
is going away is Morse Code - replaced by more efficient ways of comunication.
We're always asked "What would you do is the only way you could communicate was
to turn your transmitter on and off?".  Simple!  I'd use Tap Code - you know the
"CW" with only dots, no dashes - the one used by banging on pipes, the one
anybody can use without tons of practice.  Arrange the alphabet in a 5 x 5
matrix leaving out K (use 'c' instead).  Each letter is addressed by its
position in the matrix: a = 1,1; b = 1,2 .... f = 2,1 and so on. These become
your "dits" or bangs or flashes or blinks as appropriate.  I'm amazed at how few
know this.




Article: 224253 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Fred <freddyr1928@ll.net>
Subject: Re: balme the posters
Message-ID: <u4t662pbdfhkfvlgagfs785dsap3f28095@4ax.com>
References: <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <nf2362530i4op7sj0a9ihfiedo90csmlnu@4ax.com> <1147277737.679511.166140@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <hg94625e6c15g7pc658of0p2bup0uohf0r@4ax.com> <1147290608.422762.49480@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <r1n562hpmbp8f4pn1tmabavq5jdj3eme91@4ax.com> <1147367182.413003.124020@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:31:54 GMT

On 11 May 2006 10:06:22 -0700, "an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>obviously i can type you might have tried saying typ better but you are
>so imprcise while demaning it ofothers

Please communicate in English.


>Id tell you to go to hell but i can se you are already there
>> Otherwise you are almost too pathetic to mock.
>
>no is making you mock me

Who or what is no and how is it commanding me to mock you?


>indeed it makes you look petty but then it seesm you are petty so I
>supose you need to kepp on to maintian apearences

Please communicate in English.


Article: 224254 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: J pole question
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 10:52:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1266ugd5lluk3b3@corp.supernews.com>
References: <d92dnVBi_rDdB8fZRVn-hA@adelphia.com> <445e596a$0$21305$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> <445e9958$0$1014$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <ct9t52h8cqn7lem8m9jrbajdfklug8p9ii@4ax.com> <5cct52letc09j29gegh3mrilbemu8cike2@4ax.com> <1mbqu8k74c.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3obu9$boe$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1mfyjjcsii.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no> <e3tmvv$s36$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <e3tn4l$s3b$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1m7j4sd8nu.fsf@persaunet.uninett.no>

Jon Kåre Hellan wrote:
> . . .
> Anyway, my *real* point was that this was a useful antenna. Carry one
> rolled up in your pocket and hang it from a tree to extend the range
> of your HT. . .

I did a bit of experimenting along this line and found that any fixed 
antenna hung from a tree was a poor way to extend range. As you probably 
know, multipath propagation causes dead spots every few cm -- the cause 
of "picket fencing" when mobile -- when you're in a marginal area where 
a better antenna would help. Any fixed antenna is fairly likely to end 
up in one of those dead spots. And additional gain due to height is 
likely to be largely canceled by feedline loss unless you carry along 
some large diameter coax.

What I've found to be the best VHF antenna for portable use in marginal 
conditions is a telescoping half wave antenna like the AEA "Hot Rod" or 
various imitators like the MFJ. They radiate as well as a J Pole, but 
have the advantage that you can move them around to find a "sweet spot".

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 224255 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 10:59:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1266us51nf8u8e0@corp.supernews.com>
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com> <kCy8g.12623$QP4.5329@fed1read12> <K_CdnZIhB6FW0v7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com> <kpl662p0gu1fq90a14a1l40j6mburlem5n@4ax.com> <KN-dnSi89KJmwv7ZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com>

jimbo wrote:
> Dan Richardson wrote:
>>
>> I'm wondering if you are using a common mode choke? Also what type of
>> mast are you using to support the antenna?
>>
> 
> I have tried with and without a coax loop, 5 turns about 6 inches in 
> diameter. I couldn't see any difference. I use a 1/8 inch diameter rope 
> to hang the J-Pole from a joist in the basement or from a roof rafter in 
> the attic.

A single choke blocks conducted common mode current. But a J pole (and 
ground plane, for that matter) can also have considerable common mode 
current due to coupling between the antenna and feedline, which can 
distort the pattern and reduce the gain at the horizon. This can 
actually be made worse by a choke in some cases. Two chokes, about a 
quarter wave apart, are necessary to reliably reduce the coupled 
current. The amount of conducted and coupled current you have without 
chokes depend on the feedline length and orientation, so it can be small 
in some installations and large in others. I suspect that's one reason 
why people report such widely varying degrees of success with this antenna.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 224256 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: ricknj10@hotmail.com (Rick)
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <446384bf.58910828@news.optonline.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:44:11 GMT

All you guys posting to this thread do not know anything about Usenet.

All this crap is being cross posted to newsgroups where there should
be no interest in this bickering, childish behavior.

Before you do any follow ups to this message, right before you hit
your send button, look at what newsgroups you are posting to.  Delete
(do you know how to use your delete key?) all the newsgroups except
rec.radio.amateur.misc.  then the antenna newsgroup and the equipment
newsgroup etc. will not be seeing the posts which are IRRELEVANT.
So if you like this bullshit bickering stuff go on over to
rec.radio.amateur.misc and you will see there are lots and lots of
them to entertain you all night long.  You can call all of the posters
there names to your hearts content.  

Rick   K2XT




Article: 224257 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: ricknj10@hotmail.com (Rick)
Subject: Re: cw trolling
Message-ID: <4463876d.59597312@news.optonline.net>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3fvnh$97m$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1146857107.822936.121660@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <e3oaij$bjo$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1147122594.900336.272650@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <e3r409$k7d$1@avnika.corp.mot.com> <1264pefav054pa7@corp.supernews.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:53:22 GMT

On Wed, 10 May 2006 22:14:39 -0000, Q <Q@nowhere.com> wrote:
If you are thinking of writing a follow up message on this subject, do
this -
up at the top of your message delete all of the newsgroup names (like
rec.radio.amateur.antenna) EXCEPT rec.radio.amateur.misc because this
subject belongs there only.  It does not relate to antennas, equipment
etc.

Thank you very much.

Rick


Article: 224258 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: ricknj10@hotmail.com (Rick)
Subject: Re: I blame the ARRL for all the homosexual posts. Please Read.
Message-ID: <44638837.59799140@news.optonline.net>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com> <3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:56:12 GMT

If you are considering posting a floowup to this message do this:

Up on the top of your message delete all of the newsgroup names EXCEPT
rec.raio.amateur.policy because the antenna guys and the equipment
guys do not really care about this subject.

Thank you very much.  The whole world will think you are much more
intelligent now that you know how to use Usenet.

Rick



Article: 224259 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: ricknj10@hotmail.com (Rick)
Subject: Re: I blame the posters
Message-ID: <446388db.59963312@news.optonline.net>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1262mh57s1pubbf@corp.supernews.com> <3Fu8g.978$x4.372@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147319848.869325.29870@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:58:14 GMT

If you are considering a follow up to this messsage do this:

Up on top of the message delete all newsgroup name except
rec.radio.amateur.policy

then go over to rec.radio.amateur.policy and check to make sure your
message got posted there.
And while you are there I am sure you will find lots of similar
messages to read that will entertain you all night.

Rick


Article: 224260 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net>
References: <1147379321.629323.9340@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: TX to Antenna cable length?
Message-ID: <xqN8g.4060$fb2.3444@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 20:48:29 GMT

"MRW" <mr.whatever@gmail.com> wrote:
> My current setup includes a 100w low power fm transmitter being fed by
> a computer running some school audio programs.

What call letters did the FCC issue to that FM station?
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP





Article: 224261 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: TX to Antenna cable length?
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 21:01:15 -0000
Message-ID: <12679gr9ej6sl2b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147379321.629323.9340@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>Hi everybody!  I want to mount a dipole FM antenna on top of a three
>story building. My transmitter will be located in a room in the bottom
>floor. Has anyone have experience in this?

Many people do, I'm sure.

>I know that I will get some signal attenuation with that long of a
>coaxial cable (100 meters). If my cable has a characteristic impedance
>of 50 ohms (matching the output impedance of the transmitter), will it
>adversely affect my transmission?

It may, depending on the type of cable you use.  Thin-gauge coax cable
(e.g. RG-58) will cause significant attenuation over that long a
run, at those frequencies.  Heavier-gauge cable would have lower loss.
I wouldn't use anything less than a high-quality RG-8-type cable (e.g.
LMR400), and would seriously consider using a hardline (e.g. cable-TV
aluminum-jacket).

>I was reading my electromagnetics book and it mentions that depending
>on transmission line length the cable might look like an inductor or
>capacitor.
>
>What other factors should I take into account

Umm, the possiblity that you might end up having your equipment seized,
and/or be hit with a really heavy fine, if you don't do all of the
paperwork properly?

>                                              my calculations for the
>effect of the cable length on the system?
>
>My current setup includes a 100w low power fm transmitter being fed by
>a computer running some school audio programs. Thnx!

Are you intending to operate a legitimately-licensed educational LPFM
(low-power FM) station on behalf of your school?  If so, whomever
filed your LPFM application to get an FCC construction permit ought to
have done a lot of the necessary design work and calculations at that
time.

If you haven't received an LPFM license from the FCC (new applications
haven't been accepted since 2003, apparently, and such licenses aren't
available to private individuals), I'd advise against attempting this
sort of installation.   The FCC occasionally raids "pirate" FM
stations (those operating unlicensed), seizing the equipment and
citing the owners/operators.  The financial penalties for operating an
unlicensed FM station could be really severe.

I don't think there's any chance at all that a "100w low power" FM
transmitter could reasonably be used in a way which would qualify it
under the FCC Part 15 limits for field strength (250 microvolts per
meter, measured at a distance of 3 meters from the antenna) if you
feed that much power into a dipole antenna.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224262 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:17:27 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: J_Pole Trials and Tribulations
References: <cq2dnXJUtOYYCtPZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> <e3it1m$e00@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <af77g.11987$Lm5.840@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <e3rggm$b8h@unix1.cc.ksu.edu> <1262rjbni0pn39c@corp.supernews.com> <kCy8g.12623$QP4.5329@fed1read12> <K_CdnZIhB6FW0v7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com> <kpl662p0gu1fq90a14a1l40j6mburlem5n@4ax.com> <KN-dnSi89KJmwv7ZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com> <1266us51nf8u8e0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4463a9e7$0$6151$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Roy Lewallen wrote:

> jimbo wrote:
>>
>> I have tried with and without a coax loop, 5 turns about 6 inches in 
>> diameter. I couldn't see any difference. I use a 1/8 inch diameter 
>> rope to hang the J-Pole from a joist in the basement or from a roof 
>> rafter in the attic.
> 
> 
> A single choke blocks conducted common mode current. But a J pole (and 
> ground plane, for that matter) can also have considerable common mode 
> current due to coupling between the antenna and feedline, which can 
> distort the pattern and reduce the gain at the horizon. This can 
> actually be made worse by a choke in some cases. Two chokes, about a 
> quarter wave apart, are necessary to reliably reduce the coupled 
> current. The amount of conducted and coupled current you have without 
> chokes depend on the feedline length and orientation, so it can be small 
> in some installations and large in others. I suspect that's one reason 
> why people report such widely varying degrees of success with this antenna.
> 
> Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Isn't 6 inch diameter a little large for 2 meters?

tom
K0TAR


Article: 224263 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: balme the posters
From: Steveo <moparholic@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060511173236.371$IB@newsreader.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <1147370600.313187.187500@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Date: 11 May 2006 21:15:01 GMT

"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote:
> I could blame Stefan Balme for opening the jar of balm so quickly that
> it went blam after he landed at El Bamel airport, but Mr. Balme would
> probably not want someone to balme (or embalme) him.
>
> (try spel chek)
>
>
With a Pair of heavy-duty
Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
Every other wrangler would say
I was mighty grand

By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss

But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss ($1 F Zappa)


Article: 224264 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: TX to Antenna cable length?
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 22:03:36 -0000
Message-ID: <1267d5oj2f4ea05@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147379321.629323.9340@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <12679gr9ej6sl2b@corp.supernews.com> <1147383712.361968.233170@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

In article <1147383712.361968.233170@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
MRW <mr.whatever@gmail.com> wrote:

>I forgot to mention that the radio station is not based under FCC
>jurisdictions. It is used for a none government / non-profit
>organization in another country.

Ah, OK.  That clarifies things quite a bit.  Just make sure that you
cover your bases with the other government's authorities... some of
them may be as humorless as the FCC.

First thing I'd do is suggest that you take a look at coaxial-cable
attenuation figures.  http://users.erols.com/rfc/attenrat.htm has a nice
table which shows the attenuation in dB per 100' of cable, at various
frequencies.  For a first approximation I'd suggest using the "100
MHz" column.

As you'll see, 100 feet of RG-58 coax has an attenuation of 4.5 - 5 dB
at 100 MHz.  That means that almost 3/4 of the power is lost as heat
in the cable - only about a third of the power makes it up to the
antenna.  If you *really* need a 100-meter run of cable, triple that
loss... only a single-digit percentage of your power will reach the
antenna.

Good RG-8-size cable is better.  LMR-400 loses 1.2 dB per 100', which
means that you'd get almost half of your transmitter power up to an
antenna 100 meters away.  LMR-600 is even better, at 0.8 dB per 100' -
you'd have more than half of your power left.  Some of the really
fancy/thick/expensive hardline cables are even better - LDF5-50A
would have just a hair more than 1 dB of total loss in 100 meters,
which would really be negligible.

This suggests two things:

-  It'd pay big rewards to see if you can route the cable as directly as
   possible.  I can't see any good reason to run 100 meters of cable
   to go up a "three story" building!
   
-  Don't use cheap, thin cable... don't use anything less than RG-8.

As I mentioned before, aluminum-jacketed cable-TV "hardline" may be a
choice to consider.  It's often available in useful lengths, either
for free or for scrap value, from cable-TV operators - they buy and
install it in large quantities and often don't have a use for the
"cut-off" pieces at the end of the spool (and such "cut-off" remnants
may be 100' or more in length).

This sort of cable has a 75-ohm characteristic impedance.  It might
actually provide a better match to a dipole antenna than 50-ohm cable
would (depending on the antenna type and mounting arrangement).  The
modest SWR at the transmitter might or might not be an issue... if it
is, a simple two-component (one-inductor, one-capacitor) "L" matching
network can allow the transmitter to "see" a 50-ohm load even though
the antenna and coax are both 75-ohm.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 224265 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 20:24:04 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: Bob Grant Tribute, Part 3
References: <1147395914.590832.291790@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4463e3b4$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

NewsGuy wrote:

> The collection of phone calls made by The Right Perspective's Frank and

GOAT


Article: 224266 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <4463FCBC.4090005@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 23:10:52 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44636b98$0$22188@dingus.crosslink.net>

Vito wrote:
> "Silent Key" <cw.h@m.bands>
> 
>>When CW is lost, new hams will be just like CB'ers and SWL's, or some
>>other lower life form of radio hobbiest. You name it.
>>
> 
> Let's use proper nomenclature.  There is little danger of CW going away.  What
> is going away is Morse Code - replaced by more efficient ways of comunication.
> We're always asked "What would you do is the only way you could communicate was
> to turn your transmitter on and off?".  Simple!  I'd use Tap Code - you know the
> "CW" with only dots, no dashes - the one used by banging on pipes, the one
> anybody can use without tons of practice.  Arrange the alphabet in a 5 x 5
> matrix leaving out K (use 'c' instead).  Each letter is addressed by its
> position in the matrix: a = 1,1; b = 1,2 .... f = 2,1 and so on. These become
> your "dits" or bangs or flashes or blinks as appropriate.  I'm amazed at how few
> know this.
> 
> 
I don't see how this is any more efficient (indeed, it appears to be 
less efficient) than CW-Morse code.  My understanding is that Morse 
wisely used the least complicated sequences for the most commonly used 
letters.  I think this is also true of PSK31, but I could be wrong.

Consider the letter "E": a single "dit" in Morse, but it becomes
one "tap" followed by 5 "taps" in the above scheme.  None too efficient, 
it seems to me.


Article: 224267 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <4463FE87.8090706@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 23:18:31 -0400
From: jawod <jawod@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: balme the posters
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <1147370600.313187.187500@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <20060511173236.371$IB@newsreader.com>

Steveo wrote:
> "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote:
> 
>>I could blame Stefan Balme for opening the jar of balm so quickly that
>>it went blam after he landed at El Bamel airport, but Mr. Balme would
>>probably not want someone to balme (or embalme) him.
>>
>>(try spel chek)
>>
>>
> 
> With a Pair of heavy-duty
> Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
> Every other wrangler would say
> I was mighty grand
> 
> By myself I wouldn't
> Have no boss
> 
> But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss ($1 F Zappa)
Yippie-ay-yo-ti-yaaaa


Article: 224268 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Lee" <lo012a4519@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Magloop Height?
Message-ID: <naX8g.272123$8Q3.113664@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 07:53:55 GMT

Is there any optimum height for a 3ft dia magloop, or is it dependent on
frequency??.

I have mine planted in the lawn with the top about 6ft from the ground (on a
rotator!)
and was curious whether to work it against ground or put it at the top of
the tower,
or have i completely lost the plot???, Heh heh........

Surprising how cheaply a magloop can be built for and after 12 months it
still works well!!.

Thanks.....

Lee.......G6ZSG.....




Article: 224269 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Cecil Moore" <mycall@arrl.net>
References: <1147382432.043333.249780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Choke Baluns
Message-ID: <cM09g.25322$4L1.9785@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:15:36 GMT

"Darrell Bellerive" <va7to@rac.ca> wrote:
> There seems to be considerable variation in the design of coiled coax
> baluns, with most designers advocating a few turns of coax with a
> diameter of 3 to 8 inches.

Well, one sure wouldn't want the circumference to be one wavelength. :-)
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP




Article: 224270 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: JJ <jamesevns75@hotmail.com>
Subject: SEEMS LIKE SOME FOLKS DON'T LIKE HAM RADIO TOWERS..........
Message-ID: <th69g.153$KQ3.9@fe11.lga>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 16:33:03 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000003060108090509020107
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,  click on the link below or copy and paste it in your browsers
"go to" area.
Seems some Seems some folks don't like ham radio towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII

73








--------------000003060108090509020107
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Hi all,&nbsp; click on the link below or copy and paste it in your browsers
<br>
"go to" area.
<br>
Seems some Seems some folks don't like ham radio towers.
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII</a>
<br>
<br>
73
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="+1"><font face="Arial"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></font>
</body>
</html>

--------------000003060108090509020107--


Article: 224271 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
From: Radio Buff <em@il.here>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147256694.983492.263500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <ZEu8g.975$x4.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny>
Message-ID: <us69g.1632$y4.1107@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 20:44:10 GMT

"Galen, W8LNA" <w8lna@arrl.net> wrote in
news:shv8g.488$oa1.132@news02.roc.ny: 

> Radio Buff wrote:
>> 
>> As ham radio test standards have lowered over the years, I've noted a
>> marked increase in the amount of obscenity, profanity, and indecency.  
>> 
>> RB
> 
> At the same time the price of gasoline has gone up, the minimum wage has
> gone up, the stock market has gone up but in just about all areas of 
> society mutual respect and courtesy have gone down.
> 
> I think it has very little if anything at all to do with Morse code.
> 
> W8LNA



And I've never heard a couple ops insult or cuss each other out in CW
either.  

sc


Article: 224272 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: I got me a signal report of nine pounds on 20 meters, but then
References: <uvP7g.1626$u4.1133@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <445fdfe7$0$6149$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <7CT7g.12612$Lm5.6984@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <3w88g.2090$u4.219@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <M998g.84789$dW3.76743@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <4Fu8g.979$x4.338@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <As69g.1636$y4.973@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9k79g.25356$4L1.20921@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 21:43:33 GMT

Slow Code wrote:
> Radio Buff <no.em@il.box> wrote

>>Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>If we made getting a driver's license more difficult, would
>>>people appreciate it more?
>>
>>Easier EE exams will produce better engineers? 
> 
> Hee Hee Heeeeeee,  I knew Cecil wouldn't answer.

I didn't answer because he: 1. chose to change the subject and
2. refused to answer my question. So he didn't deserve an answer.

I wouldn't appreciate my EE degree any more if it had been harder
to obtain. I just might not have obtained it. But that is an
irrelevant diversion thus no answer from me.

If the goal is "better" amateur radio operators, let's make
obtaining a license so difficult that only two people can
obtain it.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Article: 224273 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Choke Baluns
References: <1147382432.043333.249780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   <cM09g.25322$4L1.9785@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>   <gwr$ApOBlNZEFAk7@ifwtech.co.uk> <1147467896.099797.301130@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rl79g.25357$4L1.9390@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 21:44:55 GMT

n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote:

> And for more impedance, put one every odd 1/4 wavelength... it's the
> macrame choke!

Is that anything like macrame headaches?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Article: 224274 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <2006050617232064440%Down@gagnet> <telamon_spamshield-1B2945.20344106052006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com> <Y%k7g.74024$gE.7086@dukeread06> <ilsr52pnia16k680t009n2i160jrerfmo6@4ax.com> <o50s521r1ne35hendphsijoa8fjcaf7l5b@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is the only way we can make it fair
Message-ID: <aO79g.3677$u4.1277@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 22:15:34 GMT


<Dan Richardson> wrote in message 
news:o50s521r1ne35hendphsijoa8fjcaf7l5b@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 07 May 2006 06:20:02 -0700, Bill Turner <dezrat@copper.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Complete nonsense. CW testing is being phased out because CW is
>>becoming obsolete, period. Don't try to read anything more into it
>>than that.
>>
>>With all the great new digital modes available - most of which are far
>>superior to CW - forcing people to waste valuable hours learning an
>>obsolete mode is sheer folly. There are so many great things to do
>>with Amateur Radio. Do them!
>
> Quite correct Bill. Commercial and military have dropped Morse code
> for the very reasons you stated.
>
> In this day and age, requiring proficiency in Morse code for a radio
> license would be as requiring proficiency in horse husbandry in order
> to get a driver's license.
>
> Danny, K6MHE
>
>
>
>
>
> In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one
> useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three
> or more is a congress. - John Adams
>
> email: k6mhe<at>arrl<dot>net
> http://www.k6mhe.com/

I'll keep that in mind while I'm enjoying a CW contest at 40 plus a minute.

Dan/W4NTI 




Article: 224275 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3ermq$550$1@news2.kornet.net> <TGR6g.4151$Vn.1949@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <IBT6g.66837$_S7.28808@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <61370$445cbc13$453d9423$2432@FUSE.NET> <tb77g.11986$Lm5.649@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <brWdnQ3vJ8DFicDZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <kP79g.3678$u4.2445@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 22:16:48 GMT


"Dee Flint" <deeflint01@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:brWdnQ3vJ8DFicDZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Cecil Moore" <mycall@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:tb77g.11986$Lm5.649@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>> jawod wrote:
>>> I don't think it is as effectice on SSB.  Of course, you can use the 
>>> symbols that were derived from CW (like QTH) but I think morse code is a 
>>> more direct communication in these circumstances because it doesn't 
>>> involve voice/pronunciation differences between languages.  The symbols 
>>> are universal and immediately understood.
>>
>> Well then use PACTOR II with those symbols. PACTOR II will
>> get through when CW fails.
>> -- 
>
> Any rational evaluation of the modes available will show that there is a 
> combination of circumstances that make a specific mode the one that will 
> "get through".  One can "prove" that their favorite mode is the one that 
> will get through under certain conditions.
>
> Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
>

As my old timer buddy used to say " It takes two things to communicate,  an 
OPERATOR at both ends"

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 224276 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <e3ermq$550$1@news2.kornet.net> <TGR6g.4151$Vn.1949@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <IBT6g.66837$_S7.28808@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <61370$445cbc13$453d9423$2432@FUSE.NET> <tb77g.11986$Lm5.649@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <brWdnQ3vJ8DFicDZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <Rga7g.73552$H71.45000@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <zQ79g.3680$u4.2038@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 22:18:07 GMT


"Cecil Moore" <mycall@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:Rga7g.73552$H71.45000@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Dee Flint wrote:
>> Any rational evaluation of the modes available will show that there is a 
>> combination of circumstances that make a specific mode the one that will 
>> "get through".  One can "prove" that their favorite mode is the one that 
>> will get through under certain conditions.
>
> I have seen PACTOR II get through from Europe with 10 watts
> when there was no humanly detectable signal. All I did was
> choose the correct frequency and time based on a schedule.
> I detected absolutely no carrier on the S-meter or with
> my ears in CW mode. The PACTOR II signal was literally
> down in the noise but my SCS PTC-IIe somehow managed
> to dig it out.
> -- 
> 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Lots of operator skill there,  eh Cecil?

Let them thar machines do it.  Gives us more time to watch TV and improve 
our watching techniques.

Yeah buddy.

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 224277 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Dan/W4NTI" <w4nti@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com>
References: <NOw6g.6936$An2.3601@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   <deydnaGXqffhEcPZRVn-tw@comcast.com> <1147047627.949564.83230@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate with other.
Message-ID: <sW79g.3681$u4.3229@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 22:24:24 GMT


"an_old_friend" <konstans@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1147047627.949564.83230@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave wrote:
>> Silent Key wrote:
>>
>> > What's the purpose of ham radio, To have fun talking about rigs and
>> > weather, or to be able to communicate?
>> >
>> >SNIPPED
> the activity.
>>
>> It is NOT to open a box, plug it in, connect a wire, and, when it
>> doesn't work, get on the internet and ask for help.
>>
>> I advocate for a code test for the following reason. I value what I have
>> to plan for, work for, sacrifice for, and invest my time for.
>>
>> I value the reward for 18 months of practicing Morse Code every night
>> for one hour a night. That's an investment.
> i just wanta  return on my 5 years investment I have nothing to show
> for it
>

Now that does not surprise me one bit.

Have a good life loser.

Dan/W4NTI




Article: 224278 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "J. Mc Laughlin" <jcm@power-net.net>
Subject: Re: TX to Antenna cable length?
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 21:55:29 -0400
Message-ID: <126af3kibhk17eb@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1147379321.629323.9340@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <12679gr9ej6sl2b@corp.supernews.com> <1147383712.361968.233170@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1267d5oj2f4ea05@corp.supernews.com>

Dear MRW:

The university where I teach licensed a 100 watt FM station last year.  The
transmitter was placed near the base of the tower that supported the
transmitter's antenna.

    The studio was some 1000 feet away from the transmitter.  A cable
containing multiple shielded pairs was run from the transmitter to the
studio.  Every low power FM broadcast transmitter that I looked at had
provisions to make easy remote control.

    My suggestion is to mount the transmitter near the antenna and run
control cables down to the studio.  A short run of coax is likely to have
acceptably low loss.

    Good luck.  73   Mac

--
J.  Mc Laughlin;   Michigan  U.S.A.
Home:  JCM@Power-Net.Net




Article: 224279 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Sal M. Onella" <salmonella@food.poisoning.org>
References: <C_6dncm4SIpDYfnZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@crocker.com>
Subject: Re: FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Message-ID: <Zlb9g.14874$QP4.12792@fed1read12>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 19:18:33 -0700


"Dave" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:C_6dncm4SIpDYfnZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@crocker.com...
> its raining, its going to rain all weekend, i already caught up my qsl
card
> replies, what can i do for fun this weekend... I know, troll a fight on
> r.r.a.a!  How about it you guys, you up for a return bout of lumps vs
> distributions?  how about adding powers, that one hasn't come up
recently??
> maybe a quick argument over why kirchoff's current equation doesn't work
> with distributed systems??  Or could we drum up a good fight about
> fractal-quad-yagi efficiency, or how cfa's can't work the way they are
> claimed to?  Come on, there must be a good one in there somewhere to get
you
> guys stirred up for a weekend!  Who wants to be the first one to tell me i
> can't use 75 ohm hardline without some fancy matching system??  Or why my
> SWR meter is no good when i do?  Come on, just a little fight???
>
>

Weekend fight promotion follows:

If a chicken-and-a-half can lay and egg-and-a-half in a day-and-a-half, how
long
would it take one regular chicken to lay a dozen eggs?

Most-favorable consideration will be given to answers submitted with a valid
Paypal account number and password.  It need not be your own.

Email answers to samuel.wachsal@webmail.imclone.com


(There, that should about do it.)




Article: 224280 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Sal M. Onella" <salmonella@food.poisoning.org>
References: <1147329919.236111.251560@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: electromagnetic compatibility trainings/workshops
Message-ID: <Btb9g.14875$QP4.9035@fed1read12>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 19:26:40 -0700


"electro" <electromagnetic377@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147329919.236111.251560@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> anyone who knows of a company that accepts emc training in design and
> test measurement in their lab houses?
>

Say it again more clearly, pls.

"Sal"
NARTE Certified EMC Engineer (retired)




Article: 224281 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Cecil Moore <mycall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
References: <C_6dncm4SIpDYfnZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@crocker.com> <1147469728.147827.281590@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <GJidnXXBUI5JnfjZRVn-qg@crocker.com> <go-dnchy9tj-rvjZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <ndc9g.5234$fb2.3156@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 03:17:39 GMT

Mike Coslo wrote:
>     How about a loss of de-Corum...... ;^)
>     Sorry Cecil, I'm a sucker for a bad pun!

I'm not sure K1AON and KB1EUD would appreciate
your pun.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Article: 224282 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: balme the posters
From: Steveo <moparholic@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060513005318.407$ON@newsreader.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <1147370600.313187.187500@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <20060511173236.371$IB@newsreader.com> <4463FE87.8090706@fuse.net>
Date: 13 May 2006 04:35:28 GMT

jawod <jawod@fuse.net> wrote:
> Steveo wrote:
> > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I could blame Stefan Balme for opening the jar of balm so quickly that
> >>it went blam after he landed at El Bamel airport, but Mr. Balme would
> >>probably not want someone to balme (or embalme) him.
> >>
> >>(try spel chek)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > With a Pair of heavy-duty
> > Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
> > Every other wrangler would say
> > I was mighty grand
> >
> > By myself I wouldn't
> > Have no boss
> >
> > But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss ($1 F Zappa)
>
> Yippie-ay-yo-ti-yaaaa
>
Goin' to Montana!


Article: 224283 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Owen Duffy <owen@no.where>
Subject: Re: Magloop Height?
Message-ID: <i7qa62hmdfms3dm7ci4mu3dr57u0m2u7ta@4ax.com>
References: <naX8g.272123$8Q3.113664@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk> <Xns97C118FCD5DAAdoldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159> <WKSdnXeTJ8mGAfnZRVnygg@bt.com> <Xns97C1A731DD9B4doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159> <trna62hc0c8qe20ob0pctjott8s542fkt1@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 05:16:42 GMT

On Fri, 12 May 2006 21:27:35 -0700, Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 12 May 2006 23:26:10 GMT, Dave Oldridge
><doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>I did some modelling and the difference between 1/2 inch and 2 inch pipe 
>>is really only 6db and I can get nice flexible 1/2 inch pipe.
>
>Hi Dave,
>
>Only 6dB, hmmm?  Considering the following:
>
>>I'm thinking more on the lines of switching capacitors in and out. 
>
>the switch contact resistance will probably swamp out any perceived
>efficiency gain achieved by added pipe diameter.  You may be lucky and
>have them fuse themselves closed - luck could run the other way and
>they fuse open.

Even if they don't fuse (gee Richard, its only ~100A RMS loop current
at 10W EIRP (assuming Rr of about 0.001 ohms)... but it will be hard
to achieve such high EIRP), it is some more loss resistance to drive
efficiency even lower.

I wondered about the effectiveness of the switching arrangement given
the very narrow bandwidth of the antenna, it might take a hundred
discrete tuning combinations to effectively cover the 80m / 75m band.

Owen
--


Article: 224284 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: balme the posters
From: Steveo <moparholic@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060513020218.084$WN@newsreader.com>
References: <jsx1g.131$Vn.21@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <08ed42plsgq488ftdvblgr0hv6eqikboph@news.easynews.com> <tvP7g.1625$u4.320@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1147190746.045447.54120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1w88g.2089$u4.1888@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <44613917.7090602@fuse.net> <1147222719.534150.40150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <1147370600.313187.187500@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <20060511173236.371$IB@newsreader.com> <4463FE87.8090706@fuse.net> <20060513005318.407$ON@newsreader.com> <e43s63$e9p$0@pita.alt.net>
Date: 13 May 2006 05:44:27 GMT

"Dudley" <Shooter@nowhere.up> wrote:
> "Steveo" <moparholic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:20060513005318.407$ON@newsreader.com...
> jawod <jawod@fuse.net> wrote:
> > Steveo wrote:
> > > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>I could blame Stefan Balme for opening the jar of balm so quickly
> > >>that it went blam after he landed at El Bamel airport, but Mr. Balme
> > >>would probably not want someone to balme (or embalme) him.
> > >>
> > >>(try spel chek)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > With a Pair of heavy-duty
> > > Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
> > > Every other wrangler would say
> > > I was mighty grand
> > >
> > > By myself I wouldn't
> > > Have no boss
> > >
> > > But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss ($1 F Zappa)
> >
> > Yippie-ay-yo-ti-yaaaa
> >
> Goin' to Montana!
>
> Gonna raise me up some dental floss...
>
And then I'd Get a cuppa cawfee

N' give my foot a push...

Just me 'n the pymgy pony
Over the Dennil Floss Bush