20090111.ba v04_n238.bam.20090111 >From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 09:00:52 2009 -0600 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:00:06 CST From: Old Tube Radios To: Old Tube Radios Subject: BOATANCHORS digest 4238 Message-Id: <20090111150009.2866DD52E6@srvr1.theporch.com> BOATANCHORS Digest 4238 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Taylor Tube Cross Reference by David Hollander 2) Submarine Message Handling Procedures by Jerry Proc 3) Re: Taylor Tube Cross Reference by w7qho 4) Wiring up a spark coil? by "Ed Sieb" 5) Re: Wiring up a spark coil? by Ed White WA3BZT 6) Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester by "Sandy" 7) Re: Wiring up a spark coil? by w8au@sssnet.com 8) RE: Wiring up a spark coil? by "Ed Sieb" 9) Re: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester by Deane McIntyre 10) RE: Wiring up a spark coil? by "Ed Sieb" 11) Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? by "Sandy" 12) Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? by "Sandy" 13) RE electro by "phil" 14) GB> Wiring up a spark coil? by "David Stinson" 15) Re: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester by "Sandy" 16) Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils by Charles 17) Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils by "Arden Allen" 18) Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils by "David Stinson" 19) Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? by "Ken" 20) Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils by "Arden Allen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <4967C334.6060806@cox.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:35:48 -0700 From: David Hollander MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Taylor Tube Cross Reference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a number of Taylor tubes that I would like to test. Looks like they used their own numbering system with their "TZ" prefixes. This used to drive us crazy when I worked in the semiconductor industry!!! Does a cross reference exist from Taylor tubes to industry standard numbers and does anybody have one? Or a chart with settings for a TV-7 or Hickok tester? Tnx and 73, Dave N7RK -- *********************************************************** Dave N7RK Boatanchors Home Page: http://members.cox.net/n7rk Phoenix, Arizona *DXCC Honor Roll* *WAZ#22 - 75 Meter SSB* ex-XE2/N7RK, N7RK/ZB2, VK2ERK, ZM0AJN, WB6NRK, WN6IWX Boatanchor and Antique Radio Collector ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jerry Proc Subject: Submarine Message Handling Procedures To: Old Tube Radios MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <722908.85909.qm@web90608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, As I continue to develop the document on the radio fit of Canada=E2=80=99s = Oberon class submarines, along comes this interesting submission on message= handling during the 60=E2=80=99s-70=E2=80=99s era and especially the Check= Report procedure. http://jproc.ca/rrp/rrp2/oberon_msg_procedure.html -- Regards, Jerry Proc E-mail: jerry7proc@yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A ________________________________= __________________________________=0ALooking for the perfect gift? Give the= gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:08:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Taylor Tube Cross Reference Message-ID: <3636730E.1E1D.49F0.9B97.9A1ACE18FD34@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Pantomime 1.2.0) From: w7qho To: Old Tube Radios Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_21A33E11.D14F.43D2.9278.4A0E4F3A81FD@aol.com" --=_21A33E11.D14F.43D2.9278.4A0E4F3A81FD@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dave, Going through my modest collection of 1930's handbooks, QSTs and other liter= ature, found the following Taylor tubes types carrying the T or TZ prefix, t= he latter being zero-bias types. =A0The 1938 Radio Handbook (ex.) =A0lists a= nd gives data on the T20, TZ20, T40, TZ40, T55, T125, T155, and T200. =A0For= these types the numeric part is the maximum plate dissipation value. =A0Als= o listed are the Taylor 825, 756, 841A, 203B, 203Z, HD-203A, HD-203C, HD-211= C, 814 and 822. All Taylor tubes listed above are triodes and not apparent that any of these= were direct equivalents to such "industry standards" as may have existed du= ring that period. Would suspect Taylor manufactured "standard" tube types during the War. Dennis D. =A0W7QHO Glendale, CA ********** On Jan 9, 2009, at 1:35:48 PM, "David Hollander" wrote: I have a number of Taylor tubes that I would like to test. Looks like=A0 they used their own numbering system with their "TZ" prefixes. This used=A0 to drive us crazy when I worked in the semiconductor industry!!! Does a cross reference exist from Taylor tubes to industry standard=A0 numbers and does anybody have one? Or a chart with settings for a TV-7=A0 or Hickok tester? -- --=_21A33E11.D14F.43D2.9278.4A0E4F3A81FD@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Mail Lists at theporch.com only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --=_21A33E11.D14F.43D2.9278.4A0E4F3A81FD@aol.com-- ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Ed Sieb" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:06:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All! I have an old spark coil, rather large, (10"X5"X5" approx), in a large wooden box. Research shows that this coil was probably made by the Electro Importing Company. (I can send pics to those that are interested.) I'd love to know how this coil was hooked up to make a spark transmitter. 73, Ed, VA3ES ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:10:08 -0500 From: Ed White WA3BZT Subject: Re: Wiring up a spark coil? To: Old Tube Radios Cc: Old Tube Radios Message-id: <4968F290.5010506@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Ed: I beleave the primary was wired to the battery and key (you key the primary line) The secondary had a spark gap usually two wires with a space just enough to cause a arc/spark The one end of the spark gap went to ground the other to a coil assembly that fed the antenna. Ed WA3BZT Ed Sieb wrote: > Hi All! > > I have an old spark coil, rather large, (10"X5"X5" approx), in a large wooden box. > Research shows that this coil was probably made by the Electro Importing Company. > (I can send pics to those that are interested.) > > I'd love to know how this coil was hooked up to make a spark transmitter. > > 73, > > Ed, VA3ES > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <642D52B6DFE14C57892C97CB794BDC34@gateway> From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:14:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody have settings for the Hickok 539C for '01A tubes? I can't find my supplement manual in this mess! 73, Sandy W5TVW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:20:20 -0500 To: Old Tube Radios From: w8au@sssnet.com Subject: Re: Wiring up a spark coil? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20090110192117.D643D10AF9D@srvr1.theporch.com> At 02:10 PM 1/10/2009, Ed White WA3BZT wrote: >I beleave the primary was wired to the battery and key (you key the >primary line) The secondary had a spark gap usually two wires with a >space just enough to cause a arc/spark The one end of the spark gap >went to ground the other to a coil assembly that fed the antenna. Don't forget the "interrupter" in the primary keying line. (buzzer?) If you use AC you can run without it. Perry w8au ------------------------------------------ >Ed Sieb wrote: >>Hi All! >> >>I have an old spark coil, rather large, (10"X5"X5" approx), in a >>large wooden box. >>Research shows that this coil was probably made by the Electro >>Importing Company. (I can send pics to those that are interested.) >> >>I'd love to know how this coil was hooked up to make a spark transmitter. >>73, >>Ed, VA3ES >> >> >> > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Ed Sieb" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:26:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, I've gotten a few responses which describe it as you have. One nice chap even sent a schematic of a "spark station". I'm going to wind a "helix" for 80M with a suitable condenser, add a spark gap, and try it. ;-) Ed, VA3ES --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed White WA3BZT: Hi Ed: I beleave the primary was wired to the battery and key (you key the primary line) The secondary had a spark gap usually two wires with a space just enough to cause a arc/spark The one end of the spark gap went to ground the other to a coil assembly that fed the antenna. Ed WA3BZT ------------------------------ Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2198A13A-D1CD-43AF-A521-B540C4302257@ucalgary.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Deane McIntyre Subject: Re: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:26:07 -0700 To: Old Tube Radios On 10-Jan-09, at 12:14 PM, Sandy wrote: > Anybody have settings for the Hickok 539C for '01A tubes? I can't > find my supplement manual in this mess! > > I did find my supplement manual (1968 Ed) in my mess only to find that the '01A was not listed, neither is it on the tester roll chart. I seem to recall that I asked the same question on one of the lists several years ago, and was given the suggestion to test it as if it was a 30 with the filament at 5 volts of course vs the 2 volts of the 30. I tried this and it seems to work fine: 30 Fil 2.0 Selectors ER-3200-0 Bias 10.2 Press P4 Range E Min Mut Cond 570 A short on position A of the shorts switch is normal 73, Deane McIntyre VE6BPO ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Ed Sieb" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:41:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yup, Perry, the device already has the "interrupter". I put the key and battery in series with the primary, a spark gap across the secondary, with the helix coming off one end, and ground on the opposite post. Ed, VA3ES ------------------------------------------------------------- Perry w8au wrote: Don't forget the "interrupter" in the primary keying line. (buzzer?) If you use AC you can run without it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:44:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, You'd need a spark gap (open gap or a rotary gap) The rotary gap will give more power into the antenna. An "oscillation transformer" and some high voltage capacitors or lyden jars. The only band that would be "practical" would be 160 meters. Higher ones would "work" but not as efficiently. The rotary gap wuld give more "sparks per second" than a fixed gap. The vibrator contact on the spark coil needs to be adjusted for a fairly high frequency or the most rapid rate of operation. The "Oscillation transformer" consistes of two inductors which can be spiral or "pancake" wound with enough inductance to tune the band desired. The output coil should be hinged to allow adjustment of coupling between the two coils. Coil on input side is tune with the high voltage fixed capacitor and the coil on output side is resonated by tapping same. One end of the output coil goes to external ground, the other end goes to the antenna. on the input side of the "oscillation transformer" setup, the high voltage capacitor, primary of "oscillation transformer" and spark gap are wired in series. The secondary of the spark coil is connected across the high voltage capacitor. I can send you a schematic out of Bucher's "Practical wireless telegraphy" circa 1921 if you want. There is also some formulas for calculating the size of the high voltage capacitor. Most of the capacitors were home made from glass sheets and foil. 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sieb" To: "Old Tube Radios" ; "Glowbugs" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? > Hi All! > > I have an old spark coil, rather large, (10"X5"X5" approx), in a large > wooden box. > Research shows that this coil was probably made by the Electro Importing > Company. > (I can send pics to those that are interested.) > > I'd love to know how this coil was hooked up to make a spark transmitter. > > 73, > > Ed, VA3ES > > > ************ The Glowbugs E-mail List Website is: *************** > *********** http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/~glowbugs/ ************** > *** Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to this address: **** > ************** majordomo@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu ************** > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM ------------------------------ Message-ID: <9650AD7220164494859975AC9D898749@gateway> From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Cc: "Old Tube Radios" , "Glowbugs" Subject: Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EA_01C97329.D6782060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01C97329.D6782060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nahh! Nowadays....you need one with: "Long Live Morse Code" on it! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kf6 pqt=20 To: Ed Sieb=20 Cc: Old Tube Radios ; Glowbugs=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? Speaking of T- shirts, I want one that says "Long Live Spark!" ;) 73, Jason kf6pqt On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Ed Sieb wrote: Hi All! I have an old spark coil, rather large, (10"X5"X5" approx), in a = large wooden box. Research shows that this coil was probably made by the Electro = Importing Company. (I can send pics to those that are interested.) I'd love to know how this coil was hooked up to make a spark = transmitter. 73, Ed, VA3ES ************ The Glowbugs E-mail List Website is: *************** *********** http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/~glowbugs/ ************** *** Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to this address: **** ************** majordomo@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu ************** --=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_box AMI #1625 SKCC #3768 FISTS #14233 GQRP #12446 http://kf6pqt.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: = 1/9/2009 7:59 PM ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01C97329.D6782060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Mail Lists at theporch.com only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01C97329.D6782060-- ------------------------------ Message-ID: <621AC9A0997D4DBFBE3B4692444C2753@philipPC> From: "phil" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE electro Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:08:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Electro importing co was Hugo Gernsback's store. You have got a piece of history. Phil ____________________________________________________________ Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Ktn8489WOcfACOex7rokTVEsmD1ibsJccgvLtU7X1xuL3A/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <74BCCB12C2744F109FCFF137AE98A09B@boudreaux> From: "David Stinson" To: Old Tube Radios Cc: "Glowbugs" Subject: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:19:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have ya'll looked me up on QRZ.com ? :-) 73 Dave AB5S ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:01:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to e-mails from everyone!. The settings for the old '30 tube work find with filament set for 5 volts. Most of mine are checking around 1000 Micromhos with that. Will try the other variations and see what I get. Thanks again and 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deane McIntyre" To: ; "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Settings for a Hickok 539 tube tester > > On 10-Jan-09, at 12:14 PM, Sandy wrote: > >> Anybody have settings for the Hickok 539C for '01A tubes? I can't >> find my supplement manual in this mess! >> >> > > I did find my supplement manual (1968 Ed) in my mess only to find > that the > '01A was not listed, neither is it on the tester roll chart. > > I seem to recall that I asked the same question on one of the lists > several years ago, and was given the suggestion to test it as if it > was a 30 with the filament at 5 volts of course vs the 2 volts of the > 30. > I tried this and it seems to work fine: > > 30 Fil 2.0 Selectors ER-3200-0 Bias 10.2 Press P4 Range E Min Mut > Cond 570 > A short on position A of the shorts switch is normal > > 73, > > Deane McIntyre VE6BPO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM ------------------------------ From: Charles To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:53:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last year I picked up a tubeless "very restorable" Hallicrafters SX-110 at a hamfest for $5. Naturally I have a lot more in it by now! After replacing some of the mouse-eaten cloth wiring, the many "bumblebee"/black beauty caps and a few other failed parts, it's now working. More or less :) Today I aligned it but it seems rather deaf on Band 1, and won't receive at all on Band 2. Starting from the antenna terminal, the problem was easy to find since on those bands signal was not getting to the grid of the 1st RF amp. It seems as though those !@#$% mice did more damage than I thought. They snacked on the wires coming off two of the pie-wound coils that comprise the first tuned circuits (on the 1st RF stage grid) for bands 1 and 2. It's not just broken, a short length is completely missing! Naturally the missing end on at least one is at the bottom of the pie, where I can't get to it to reconnect. Looks very difficult to reproduce a pie winding even if I had the Litz wire. It's almost there! Anyone got a junker that has L2 and L3 (the coils closest to the rear corner of the chassis)? They have "051-201937" and "051-201938" printed on them. Or a source for them? Nothing coming up on Google. Re-engineering would be a last resort...=20 thanks Charles ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001001c973be$25042960$ee9d480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:28:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ......Naturally the missing end on at least one is at the bottom of the pie, where I can't get to it to reconnect. ....... Don't give up yet, Charles. Clean away wax, varnish, etc. with a moderately soft brush and acetone. You may have to remove the entire coil to get at the location of the wire. All you need is to find just the bitter end of the wire, tease it out further if possible and then tin the tip of the wire. That's all you need to successfully splice a wire to. Solder a fine wire to the terminal the winding is attached to, tin the end that will splice to the remaining end from the coil, align the two wires to just touching, apply fresh solder to a clean solder iron tip and just briefly touch the junction of the two wires. Clean flux from the junction with acetone and coat with wax or varnish, depending on what the coil is coated with. If varnish clear finger nail polish is my first choice. If you aren't sure you can do the delicate operation the first time, practice splicing the ends of two fine wire together taped to your work bench. When you get the "hang" of the operation you are good to go. Use magnified vision and a small tip iron. Good luck! Arden Allen KB6NAX ------------------------------ Message-ID: <9025E0753C1E437E9F215A8D60719B5A@boudreaux> From: "David Stinson" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:58:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let me second what Arden was saying. I've also repaired similar coils (IFs in this case) that were open a the bottom of the "pie." Getting the coil off without destroying it is certainly a challenge, but you have nothing to lose at this point so go for it. 73 Dave S. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002a01c973f4$ecdeab00$020fa8c0@ken> From: "Ken" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: GB> Wiring up a spark coil? Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:00:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi spark gap submitters, I am suprised that none of the message I've read even mention that Spark Transmissions are ILLEGAL! Spark transmissions are allowed to be used in an actual "life threatening emergency", but definitely not otherwise! FWIW Ken N5CM ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001c01c973fd$5abbd870$039f480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Looking for Hallicrafters SX-110 coils Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:00:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've also repaired similar coils (IFs in this case) that were > open a the bottom of the "pie." Getting the coil off > without destroying it is certainly a challenge, but you > have nothing to lose at this point so go for it. > 73 Dave S. To clarify what I meant by "removing the coil" was not to remove the pie, as Dave suggests, but to remove the entire coil assembly so that it can be turned on the bench to get at the point where the wire emerges from the bottom of the pie. Removing a pie almost certainly causes too much damage unless it is barely adhering to the coil form. But as David said, you have nothing to lose by trying whatver you try. Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever :-) ------------------------------ End of BOATANCHORS Digest 4238 ******************************