20090312.ba v04_n253.bam.20090312 >From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 19:59:24 2009 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:58:37 CST From: Old Tube Radios To: Old Tube Radios Subject: BOATANCHORS digest 4253 Message-Id: <20090313005840.78149D52A8@srvr1.theporch.com> BOATANCHORS Digest 4253 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: variacs and 220v by ail0@att.net 2) Allen Bradley Type J Specifications by "B. Smith" 3) Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications by Al Klase 4) Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications by "Paul Kraemer" 5) Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications by "Paul Kraemer" 6) FA: LS-3 Speaker by Richard Dillman 7) FA: ME-87/U Test Set Multimeter by Richard Dillman 8) FA: Central Electronics Model B Sideband Slicer by Richard Dillman 9) Re: variacs and 220v by stuck in 50s 10) Re: UPS charges by stuck in 50s 11) Re: bringing up ps by stuck in 50s 12) RE: bringing up ps by RICHARD SOLOMON 13) No load VA? by "Herbert M. Rosenthal" 14) Re: No load VA? by spr@earthlink.net 15) Re: No load VA? by "Arden Allen" 16) Re: No load VA? by "Morris Odell" 17) Recapping SX-100 by Garey Barrell 18) Recapping SX-100 by Garey Barrell 19) Re: Recapping SX-100 by spr@earthlink.net 20) Re: Recapping SX-100 by "Paul Kraemer" 21) Re: Recapping SX-100 by "Arden Allen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ail0@att.net To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: variacs and 220v Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:35:57 +0000 Message-Id: <031020091835.17908.49B6B30D000613AB000045F422193122529B0A02D29B9B0EBFCF04070E@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17908_1236710157_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17908_1236710157_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You will live longer and so will your power suopply if you let an electrician install a separate 220 line and 220 socket into your shack. Under the present financial situation, you can go over to your local tech high school or tech community college and find someone recently laid off and well trained and licensed who will 'moonlight' for you. According to our local paper, the wait to get an electricians rating in the union is two or three years ( i.e., lots of laid off guys available.) Sad, but true. Look. at it as an act of charity that is putting food on someone's table. 73s, Art K3HBA --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17908_1236710157_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Mail Lists at theporch.com only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17908_1236710157_0-- ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000501c9a1b9$d97bca00$271cc847@BCXHTR8HVC4P> From: "B. Smith" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:53:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have the specs handy for the wattage rating of Allen-Bradley Type J pots? 73 breck k4che ------------------------------ Message-ID: <49B6BF24.2040309@ar88.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:27:32 -0400 From: Al Klase MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios CC: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two Watts - AB seems to have dropped out of sight. Trick is it's a mil. RV4 type. - Al B. Smith wrote: > Anyone have the specs handy for the wattage rating of > Allen-Bradley Type J pots? > > 73 > > breck k4che > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00 > > -- Al Klase - N3FRQ Jersey City, NJ http://www.skywaves.ar88.net/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <7E08BD5B0EB04BC48C8643EFA617646D@ENGR2> From: "Paul Kraemer" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:11:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to say 2 watt Give me a day and I'll find the book. Paul K0UYA ----- Original Message ----- From: "B. Smith" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications > Anyone have the specs handy for the wattage rating of > Allen-Bradley Type J pots? > > 73 > > breck k4che > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <84ADA0C537554B49B5B65680B4A181CC@ENGR2> From: "Paul Kraemer" To: Old Tube Radios Cc: "Old Tube Radios" Subject: Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:12:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit True AB components are no more Same pot still available from OHMITE now. Paul K0UYA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Klase" To: "Old Tube Radios" Cc: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Allen Bradley Type J Specifications > Two Watts - AB seems to have dropped out of sight. Trick is it's a mil. > RV4 type. - Al > > B. Smith wrote: >> Anyone have the specs handy for the wattage rating of Allen-Bradley Type >> J pots? >> >> 73 >> >> breck k4che >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: >> 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00 >> >> > > -- > Al Klase - N3FRQ > Jersey City, NJ > http://www.skywaves.ar88.net/ > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <18919864.1236730498334.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Dillman To: Old Tube Radios Subject: FA: LS-3 Speaker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted my LS-3 speaker for auction on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/cebu3c RD ================================= Richard Dillman, W6AWO Chief Operator, Coast Station KSM Maritime Radio Historical Society http://www.radiomarine.org ================================= ------------------------------ Message-ID: <27299974.1236730619332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:16:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Dillman To: Old Tube Radios Subject: FA: ME-87/U Test Set Multimeter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted my ME-87/U Test Set Multimeter for auction on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/d6u3r3 RD ================================= Richard Dillman, W6AWO Chief Operator, Coast Station KSM Maritime Radio Historical Society http://www.radiomarine.org ================================= ------------------------------ Message-ID: <15726961.1236730745920.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:19:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Dillman To: Old Tube Radios Subject: FA: Central Electronics Model B Sideband Slicer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted my Central Electronics Model B Sideband Slicer for auction on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/cg3487 RD ================================= Richard Dillman, W6AWO Chief Operator, Coast Station KSM Maritime Radio Historical Society http://www.radiomarine.org ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:24:20 -0400 (EDT) From: stuck in 50s Message-Id: <200903111324.n2BDOK1E019293@fracas.netboobie.org> To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: variacs and 220v I teenk the regular edition to this subject is a pair of ganged 115v items. The up-hookage places each on opposite sides of neutral in the usual split-phase in the home They look to be good RV wheel chocks too. So you've got equal hamfest chances on finding one in the flea market or in overnight parking Marty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: stuck in 50s Message-Id: <200903111332.n2BDWqOF019333@fracas.netboobie.org> To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: UPS charges Hey guys, my Unineruptible Power Supply battery bank stays @ full charge as long as the utility delivers the AC What's all this other stuff about UPS stores & unrelated minutia doing here? 'rm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:48:26 -0400 (EDT) From: stuck in 50s Message-Id: <200903111348.n2BDmQFN019380@fracas.netboobie.org> To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: bringing up ps Yo Bob Variac use for electrolytic reformation is kind goofy Only the electrolytics know how fast to rotate the thing Better way is just to limit current to the caps on a "revival run." For a doubler supply like ur Drake, I'd lift the transformer lead to the diode-pair & series a 30k 50w resistor. Each cap has p/o bleeder across it & if things right, prolly each cap shud be @ half usual V when in OK shape. How know? measure each w. voltmeter When that state achieved, take out 30K & just turn it on Marty ------------------------------ Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_742ea370-f689-4c40-80d8-d53a2aead731_" From: RICHARD SOLOMON To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: bringing up ps Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:47:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 --_742ea370-f689-4c40-80d8-d53a2aead731_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For low voltage caps (<500 vdc) I use a regulated DC Supply and slowly crank up the voltage while monitoring the current. This is with the DUT OFF of course. =20 73=2C Dick=2C W1KSZ =20 > Date: Wed=2C 11 Mar 2009 09:48:26 -0400 > From: polepeeg@aa4rm.ba-watch.org > To: boatanchors@theporch.com > Subject: Re: bringing up ps >=20 >=20 > Yo Bob >=20 > Variac use for electrolytic reformation is kind goofy >=20 > Only the electrolytics know how fast to rotate the=20 > thing >=20 > Better way is just to limit current to the caps > on a "revival run." >=20 > For a doubler supply like ur Drake=2C I'd lift the > transformer lead to the diode-pair & series a 30k > 50w resistor. Each cap has p/o bleeder across > it & if things right=2C prolly each cap shud be @ > half usual V when in OK shape.=20 >=20 > How know? measure each w. voltmeter >=20 > When that state achieved=2C take out 30K & just turn it on >=20 > Marty >=20 --_742ea370-f689-4c40-80d8-d53a2aead731_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Mail Lists at theporch.com only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --_742ea370-f689-4c40-80d8-d53a2aead731_-- ------------------------------ Message-ID: <49B80688.7040306@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:44:24 -0700 From: "Herbert M. Rosenthal" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios Subject: No load VA? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question: You have a 16 volt, 20 VA bell transformer with a 120 VAC primary, wired as power-on 24/7/365. This is a modern one, installed to power a doorbell only when the secondary circuit is completed by a push of the doorbell button. What would you guess or estimate the no-load transformer VA would be from the house power? Let's forget winding resistances and just go with the maker's full load of 20 VA when the bell rings. Reason for question: our Albuquerque paper has a local energy guru (retired PhD) whose column this morning says it will be about 200 KWH per year, and I think he's off by a bunch (read nuts). If you drew the 20 VA for a year with the bell ringing constantly, it would be about 175 KWH.... but who could stand a bell ringing for that long :-) ? Seems to me I read way back that this type of transformer has a gap in the core to lessen the standby VA, and perhaps even offer a percentage of rated VA with no load, but don't remember the details. Help? Herb W5AN Albuquerque ------------------------------ Message-ID: <28473967.1236794106031.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:55:05 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: spr@earthlink.net To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: No load VA? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Herb, Well, if the transformer wastes 10% of its power heating up the core and primary winding, you'd use 17.5 KHW/yr. IF I can find such a transformer in my pile, I can measure its real power consumption with gear I have at work. You could measure it, too, by measuring the amplitude and phase of the primary current with no load on the secondary. I strongly encourage the use of an isolation transformer if you are going to measure anything in the primary circuit. Regards, Scott -----Original Message----- >From: "Herbert M. Rosenthal" >Sent: Mar 11, 2009 11:44 AM >To: Old Tube Radios >Subject: No load VA? > >Question: You have a 16 volt, 20 VA bell transformer with a 120 VAC >primary, wired as power-on 24/7/365. This is a modern one, installed to >power a doorbell only when the secondary circuit is completed by a push >of the doorbell button. > >What would you guess or estimate the no-load transformer VA would be >from the house power? Let's forget winding resistances and just go with >the maker's full load of 20 VA when the bell rings. > >Reason for question: our Albuquerque paper has a local energy guru >(retired PhD) whose column this morning says it will be about 200 KWH >per year, and I think he's off by a bunch (read nuts). > >If you drew the 20 VA for a year with the bell ringing constantly, it >would be about 175 KWH.... but who could stand a bell ringing for that >long :-) ? > >Seems to me I read way back that this type of transformer has a gap in >the core to lessen the standby VA, and perhaps even offer a percentage >of rated VA with no load, but don't remember the details. > >Help? > >Herb W5AN >Albuquerque > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002f01c9a283$7ab38290$1e9f480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: No load VA? Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:56:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been said that PhD stands for "Piled higher and Deeper." Seems so in this case. The **standby current** for a doorbell transformer is about 40mA. At least that's what the bell transformer I have laying around here measures. It's winding resistance is 194 ohms. That makes apparent power consumption 31mW (I sq R = P). True power consumption is somewhat less because the unloaded transformer is almost pure reactance. Let's say for arguement purposes the transfomer's true standby power consumption is 25mW. That's damn generous. That comes to 0.219 KWH per year. Must be the PhD has problems with knowing where to put those pesky little decimal points. BTW, my tranformer is a whimpy little 10V 5VA unit. Enough to ring my bell ;-) Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever =:-) ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Morris Odell" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: No load VA? Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:16:47 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert M. Rosenthal" To: "Old Tube Radios" <> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:44 AM Subject: No load VA? > Question: You have a 16 volt, 20 VA bell transformer with a 120 VAC > primary, wired as power-on 24/7/365. This is a modern one, installed to > power a doorbell only when the secondary circuit is completed by a push > of the doorbell button. > > What would you guess or estimate the no-load transformer VA would be > from the house power? Let's forget winding resistances and just go with > the maker's full load of 20 VA when the bell rings. Transformers rank among the most efficient machines ever made, although having said that little ones might not be designed for optimum low losses. What we are talking about here is the iron loss which is made up of eddy curent and hysteresis loss in the core and also a (usually tiny) bit of I^2R loss in the primary from the no-load magnetising current. The no load primary current is mostly reactive with only a small in-phase component due to losses. I think 10% of full load VA is probably a bit on the high side but not impossible in a small tranny where the amount of iron has been cut to the absolute minimum. In bigger transformers such a high iron loss would not be feasible - imagine if your 1 KVA plate transformer dissipated 100 watts no-load - it would get pretty hot even on standby! If a bell transformer dissipated a watt that's 8.7 kWH per year. If all the transformers, pilot lights, wall warts, clocks, standby systems etc in your house dissipated 10 times that we get to 87 kWH per year which down here is about $10. That's probably a conservative estimate. Using the beer can equivalent system of expenditure that friend of mine has taught me, it's not much :-) BTW who pays for the iron loss in the magnetic circuit of your electricity meter? I doubt it's the power company. (That's probably another can of beer's worth over 100 years !!!) I agree with Arden - Piled High & Deep Morris ------------------------------ Message-ID: <49B97E12.8040102@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:26:42 -0400 From: Garey Barrell MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Recapping SX-100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything in the archives. Is there any reason to NOT use disc ceramic caps to replace paper caps in a receiver? Also, are there any sources of paper/mylar caps other than the radial Orange Drops or the brilliant yellow axials? Neither "look" right, and the radial leads are almost always a problem in a chassis laid out for axials.... -- 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <49B97ECB.7060402@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:29:47 -0400 From: Garey Barrell MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Recapping SX-100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops! I'm referring ONLY to bypass caps, obviously caps used for resonating filters or in timing functions need to be mylar, etc. Some say audio coupling as well, but... I believe this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything in the archives. Is there any reason to NOT use disc ceramic caps to replace paper caps in a receiver? Also, are there any sources of paper/mylar caps other than the radial Orange Drops or the brilliant yellow axials? Neither "look" right, and the radial leads are almost always a problem in a chassis laid out for axials.... -- 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <18842734.1236894182391.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:43:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: spr@earthlink.net To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Recapping SX-100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary, Well, all ceramic capacitors are not created equal. They are quite different, depending on the type of ceramic material used for the dielectric. COG tmperature stable types are actually quire good capacitors, but since they are physically larger, they are more commonly avaiabe at values below 0.01 uF. X7R and Z5U dielectrics pack a lot of farad sauce into a small bottle, but have large voltage coefficients (theymake measureable distortion) and temperature coefficients (promotes drift). There are dielectrics today that permit a 30 uF (that's microfarads, folks) 6V ceramic cap to be a cube about 0.2 inches on a side, but the capacitance is HALF as large at half the voltage! If all you want is energy storage and a low equivalent series resistance, they're great, but *only* in that situation. Sinc it's ahrd to find out what the dielectric is in the ceramics you have stashed here and there, I'd assume they are all X7R/Z5U and use them only for bypass, as you indicated you would. In my experience, they are very reliable, perfectly good parts if used with understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. However, if you think the yellow axial film caps look different from wax paper, disc cermaics look *really* different. Personally, I don't care; I preserve the above-chassis appearance and put nice, better than new parts beneath. I only re-stuffed the original caps once, on a radio built in Latvia with a beautiful "VEF" in script on each one...and it was a small, sinple radio, not an SX100 or SX28. Happy restoring! Scott -----Original Message----- >From: Garey Barrell >Sent: Mar 12, 2009 2:29 PM >To: Old Tube Radios >Subject: Recapping SX-100 > >Oops! I'm referring ONLY to bypass caps, obviously caps used for resonating filters or in timing >functions need to be mylar, etc. Some say audio coupling as well, but... > >I believe this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything in >the archives. > >Is there any reason to NOT use disc ceramic caps to replace paper caps >in a receiver? > >Also, are there any sources of paper/mylar caps other than the radial >Orange Drops or the brilliant yellow axials? Neither "look" right, and >the radial leads are almost always a problem in a chassis laid out for >axials.... > >-- >73, Garey - K4OAH >Glen Allen, VA > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Paul Kraemer" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Recapping SX-100 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:20:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary For looks you can order phenolic tubing in many sizes from Mc Master Carr. A few $$ buys a lot of feet. Put the yellow cap in the fibre tube, seal the end with wax, and print lables on your computer. You could even paint the tubing black and print color stripe labels making your own black beauties. Axial lead metal film caps in metal cases are available but they get pretty pricey. Me, I like the yellow jackets. At a previous time they implied a very high quality tubular capacitor of commercial or military grade. Paul K0UYA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garey Barrell" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Recapping SX-100 > Oops! I'm referring ONLY to bypass caps, obviously caps used for > resonating filters or in timing functions need to be mylar, etc. Some say > audio coupling as well, but... > > I believe this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything in > the archives. > > Is there any reason to NOT use disc ceramic caps to replace paper caps > in a receiver? > > Also, are there any sources of paper/mylar caps other than the radial > Orange Drops or the brilliant yellow axials? Neither "look" right, and > the radial leads are almost always a problem in a chassis laid out for > axials.... > > -- > 73, Garey - K4OAH > Glen Allen, VA > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <008c01c9a376$dbfc6730$759d480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: Recapping SX-100 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:32:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ......Is there any reason to NOT use disc ceramic caps to replace paper caps > in a receiver? ........ Not that I am aware of. Paper caps are not great performers notwithstanding what the audiophools contend. Ceramics make better bypass caps because being smaller lead length to chassis can be shorter which reduces series inductance. The somewhat higher dielectric absorption of general purpose ceramics has little effect on audio coupling because of the miniscule dynamic voltage gradient across the cap. Ceramics used in tone control circuits may display some dielectric "euphony" but only a problem in perfectionist grade audio gear. Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever =:-) ------------------------------ End of BOATANCHORS Digest 4253 ******************************