20090319.ba v04_n256.bam.20090319 >From ???@??? Thu Mar 19 11:40:08 2009 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:39:17 CST From: Old Tube Radios To: Old Tube Radios Subject: BOATANCHORS digest 4256 Message-Id: <20090319163920.236BA10B0E8@srvr1.theporch.com> BOATANCHORS Digest 4256 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 1L4 Tube by "B. Smith" 2) 0B2 function by John Sehring 3) Re: 0B2 function by "Arden Allen" 4) Re: 0B2 function by "Morris Odell" 5) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Sandy" 6) 0B2 function- "light problems" by Rhett George 7) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Arden Allen" 8) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Paul Kraemer" 9) RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Ed Zeranski" 10) Wanted - Eico GDO by Art Lebermann 11) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by Gary Woods 12) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Arden Allen" 13) RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Ed Zeranski" 14) RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Ed Zeranski" 15) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Sandy" 16) Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Don Davis" 17) RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" by "Ed Zeranski" 18) Inside a 6L6. by Garey Barrell 19) Old callbook lookup please by "JAMES HANLON" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <005501c9a64b$b90faca0$271cc847@BCXHTR8HVC4P> From: "B. Smith" To: Old Tube Radios Cc: Subject: Re: 1L4 Tube Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:27:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wilson Give me an address and I will mail them ASAP. 73 breck k4che ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilson Lamb" To: "Old Tube Radios" Cc: Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:28 AM Subject: 1L4 Tube Does anyone have an extra, or two?? Wilson W4BOH ------------------------------ Message-ID: <742440.66911.qm@web45614.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:59:36 -0700 (PDT) From: John Sehring Subject: 0B2 function To: Old Tube Radios MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Question was asked about NE-2's or like as regulators. Decades ago, worked on DuMont 304 o'scopes which used some NE-2's as voltage regulators in the focus voltage & other areas. Had a set of symptoms. Took it out of the case, different set of symptoms. What gives?! Turns out the neon's are sensitive to light, alters their striking voltage & probably regulating voltage, too. (Don't recall which way the light altered their behavior.) Some neon's were more flaky with light on 'em than others. Put dab of dark paint on 'em, put some NOS neons in, settled things down. BTW, darn nice 'scopes, but bulky/heavy, but never had a failure in my two after decades of use. --John WB0EQ/VE6 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002501c9a6c2$4ea0ff50$529f480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:29:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > .....(Don't recall which way the light altered their behavior.)...... Well, light is energy, so light will help to improve the ignition sensitivity. You may have noticed that in equipment that has neon pilot lamps the lamps sometimes take up to many seconds to light after power is applied. Shining a flashlight on the bulb will usually get it to light immediately. In scope circuits neons are used both as regulators and as clippers, the difference being the clippers go on and off. Varying ignition sensitivity will alter circuit functions somewhat. Once the neon is lit normal room light has no noticeable effect because it is swamped by the lamp's own light. It used to was gas tube regulators and neon bulbs contained small amounts of radon, the radiactve gas, to improve ignition performance. I don't know, but perhaps the sky-is-falling crowd had it banished. Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever =:-) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <93D87890195B45E8ACED8AAA6FB4FEED@Morris1> From: "Morris Odell" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:13:10 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That property of neon tubes was used to advantage in some designs. I have a boatanchor panadaptor where the sweep trigger control works by varying the intensity of a light bulb shining on a neon tube. The trigger pulse is fed to a conductive coating on the outside of the tube and the amount of light falling on it controls how sensitive it is to being triggered. 73, Morris VK3DOC ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sehring" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: 0B2 function > > Question was asked about NE-2's or like as regulators. > > Decades ago, worked on DuMont 304 o'scopes which used some NE-2's as > voltage regulators in the focus voltage & other areas. > > Had a set of symptoms. Took it out of the case, different set of > symptoms. What gives?! > > Turns out the neon's are sensitive to light, alters their striking voltage > & probably regulating voltage, too. (Don't recall which way the light > altered their behavior.) Some neon's were more flaky with light on 'em > than others. Put dab of dark paint on 'em, put some NOS neons in, settled > things down. > > BTW, darn nice 'scopes, but bulky/heavy, but never had a failure in my two > after decades of use. > > --John WB0EQ/VE6 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.16/2005 - Release Date: 03/16/09 19:01:00 ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:53:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a common phenomenon! Years ago, Canadian Marconi had some mobile telephone number "decoders" which used cold cathode gas triode tubes in a logic circuit. There was additional NE-2 lamps illuminating the gas trigger tubes (which used neon gas) otherwise they would refuse to work properly! The gas regulator tubes are also "photosensitive" to some degree which must be sometimes compensated for if they are kept in total darkness! "Gas" tubes in general all exhibit this problem to a greater or lesser degree. Consider all neon lamps and gas type tubes as being "afraid of the dark" if you have a screwy problem that seems to defy you finding it. I vaguely remember some ARC-27 UHF aircraft transceivers developing some "autotune" logic problems that would clear up if the transceiver cabinet (which was sealed and pressurized) was cracked open so that a tiny bit of light could get inside! Like to drove us nets on the first one of these we had that did this. I was working on F-86D aircraft avionics at the time! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sehring" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: 0B2 function > > Question was asked about NE-2's or like as regulators. > > Decades ago, worked on DuMont 304 o'scopes which used some NE-2's as > voltage regulators in the focus voltage & other areas. > > Had a set of symptoms. Took it out of the case, different set of > symptoms. What gives?! > > Turns out the neon's are sensitive to light, alters their striking voltage > & probably regulating voltage, too. (Don't recall which way the light > altered their behavior.) Some neon's were more flaky with light on 'em > than others. Put dab of dark paint on 'em, put some NOS neons in, settled > things down. > > BTW, darn nice 'scopes, but bulky/heavy, but never had a failure in my two > after decades of use. > > --John WB0EQ/VE6 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.17/2007 - Release Date: 03/17/09 10:18:00 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:17:10 -0400 From: Rhett George To: Old Tube Radios Subject: 0B2 function- "light problems" Message-ID: <20090317201710.GE23167@ee.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline - Greetings - Those of us used to a causal world find the unfunny behavior of gas discharge devices such as 0B2's and NE-2's leading us to some form of trepidation. The most energetic of atoms, electrons, or particles from outer space have the highest probability of starting a discharge. Oops, it's probabilistic, not deterministic. This is difficulty #1. Furthermore, the neon (or other) gas pressure drops over the lifetime of the device as atoms and/or ions are driven into the inner wall of the device, We might have known the gas pressure at the outset but have no easy, non-destructive way of knowing it now. Not knowing what's inside available for conduction is difficulty #2. At the QTH several neon pilot lamps on outlet strips and one on a dehumidifier have been observed to glow with decreasing enthusiasm as the years pass. In a few cases the effect goes into the state where the lamp won't glow unless the room lights are on. One of these days I'll try heating some of these gently with a propane torch, seeking to drive the neon off the walls and back into the space inside. This of course is to test this notion, not to get dead bulbs to work again because I am too cheap to replace them. 73 Rhett - KE4HIH ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004601c9a73e$d3c89a40$f89d480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:24:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...I vaguely remember some ARC-27 UHF aircraft transceivers developing some > "autotune" logic problems that would clear up if the transceiver cabinet > (which was sealed and pressurized) was cracked open so that a tiny bit of > light could get inside! Yeah, that's pretty vague, allright. The channel tuning in the ARC-27/ARC-55 sets was purely electromechanical. Motors, solenoids and switches. Nice story for the leprachauns to laugh about ;-) Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever =:-) ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Paul Kraemer" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:15:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "funny when exposed to light" can effect solid state devices as well. Years ago a friend built an electronic keyer and used some little surplus glass diodes. He had a heck of a time trying to troubleshoot that circuit layout. Of course he was looking at it under the magnifier bench light. One day he observed that the behavior changed when the light was off. Next morning at work he was wearing a triumphant grin as he demonstrated to us all the change in the characteristic of those diodes when subjected to a strong light. No, they weren't supposed to be photodiodes. They were from the Collins Radio surplus store and a very common small silicon diode. Moral: In troubleshooting, nothing is ever insignificant. Paul K0UYA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rhett George" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:17 PM Subject: 0B2 function- "light problems" > > - Greetings - > > Those of us used to a causal world find the unfunny behavior of gas > discharge devices such as 0B2's and NE-2's leading us to some form > of trepidation. The most energetic of atoms, electrons, or particles > from outer space have the highest probability of starting a discharge. > Oops, it's probabilistic, not deterministic. This is difficulty #1. > > Furthermore, the neon (or other) gas pressure drops over the lifetime > of the device as atoms and/or ions are driven into the inner wall > of the device, We might have known the gas pressure at the outset > but have no easy, non-destructive way of knowing it now. Not knowing > what's inside available for conduction is difficulty #2. > > At the QTH several neon pilot lamps on outlet strips and one on a > dehumidifier have been observed to glow with decreasing enthusiasm > as the years pass. In a few cases the effect goes into the state > where the lamp won't glow unless the room lights are on. > > One of these days I'll try heating some of these gently with a propane > torch, seeking to drive the neon off the walls and back into the space > inside. This of course is to test this notion, not to get dead bulbs > to work again because I am too cheap to replace them. > > 73 Rhett - KE4HIH > ------------------------------ From: "Ed Zeranski" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep! The tune ckt was open-seeker running a dc motor through clutches and gear train. Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical drives! EdZ KG6UTS > ...I vaguely remember some ARC-27 UHF aircraft transceivers developing some "autotune" logic problems ....... >.... The channel tuning in the ARC-27/ARC-55 sets was purely electromechanical. Arden Allen KB6NAX ------------------------------ Message-ID: <14876174.1237401020742.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:30:20 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Art Lebermann To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Wanted - Eico GDO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for an Eico 710 GDO, with coils. Anyone on the list have one they would consider selling? Thanks! Art Lebermann W6REQ ------------------------------ From: Gary Woods To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:20:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700, you wrote: > Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s >and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical drives! So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005701c9a80c$b8f13820$3d9e480c@KB6NAX> From: "Arden Allen" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:01:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? > Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. In the ARC-38 the SMO was tuned by a phase locked loop. The ARC-27 was purely crystal synthesis and multiplication to channel frequency. Arden Allen KB6NAX Adopt a shelter dog, save an innocent life, and make a friend forever =:-) ------------------------------ From: "Ed Zeranski" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:53:59 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure on the ARC-38, I never worked on one. The ARC-27 was a late WWII design covering 225-400Mc and didn't have the same 'stabilized master oscillator' as later equipment. URC-32s and other contemporary Collins HF sets like the ARC-38 had an SMO. I did work on URC-23s and a bit with AN/ARC-105s. EdZ KG6UTS Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700, you wrote: > Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s >and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical drives! So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G ------------------------------ From: "Ed Zeranski" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:56:53 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .....I did work on URC-23s ... OOPS! Thats URC-32s! EdZ KG6UTS Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700, you wrote: > Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s >and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical drives! So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G ------------------------------ Message-ID: <289BE35C46694997857ABF122317650C@gateway> From: "Sandy" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:26:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What was the fairly late UHF transceiver that looked like a loaf of sliced bread (sliced into modules). It was TINY compared to the old ARC-27 and ARC-34. 73 Sandy W5TV W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Zeranski" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:56 PM Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" > > > .....I did work on URC-23s ... > OOPS! Thats URC-32s! > EdZ KG6UTS > > > > > > Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" > > > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700, you wrote: > >> Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s >>and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical drives! > > > So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? > Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. > > > Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at > home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic > Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 20:27:00 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <9C7B54F0A37942958E378615D21B68CE@hppav> From: "Don Davis" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:44:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARC-51? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy" To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" > What was the fairly late UHF transceiver that looked like a loaf of > sliced bread (sliced into modules). It was TINY compared to the old > ARC-27 and ARC-34. > > 73 > Sandy W5TV W > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Zeranski" > To: "Old Tube Radios" > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:56 PM > Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" > > >> >> >> .....I did work on URC-23s ... >> OOPS! Thats URC-32s! >> EdZ KG6UTS >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" >> >> >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0700, you wrote: >> >>> Back in 1970 I had a night job doing depot overhauls on Arc-27s >>>and the first bench I worked was the mechanical drives. Manaical >>>drives! >> >> >> So, where does that leave the SMO tuning mechanism in an ARC-38? >> Same open-circuit seeking stuff in a fraction of the space. >> >> >> Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at >> home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic >> Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: > 03/18/09 20:27:00 > > ------------------------------ From: "Ed Zeranski" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: RE: 0B2 function- "light problems" Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 04:58:36 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ARC-51 covered the same freqs, weighed around 30 lbs. ARC-164 is newer and does the same job at 8.5 lbs. The newer ARC-182 does VHF Hi-Low and Mil UHF in AM and FM. EdZ KG6UTS To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: 0B2 function- "light problems" ARC-51? > What was the fairly late UHF transceiver that looked like a loaf of > sliced bread (sliced into modules). It was TINY compared to the old > ARC-27 and ARC-34. > > 73 > Sandy W5TV W ------------------------------ Message-ID: <49C258C5.1030903@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:37:57 -0400 From: Garey Barrell MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Inside a 6L6. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicely done video dissecting a 6L6. http://tinyurl.com/dzlses -- 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line & TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "JAMES HANLON" To: Old Tube Radios Subject: Old callbook lookup please Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:39:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_020B_01C9A87E.EA9AD0D0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C9A87E.EA9AD0D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Y'all, I'm trying to track a person who wrote his name on the back cover of the = Instruction Book for my "new" B&W 6100. His call was W3EOZ, and he was = Tom Consalvi living at 2731 Belmont Ave, Ardmore PA. He no longer = appears in the FCC database of licensed amateurs, and a "white pages" = lookup for Consalvi in and around Ardmore doesn't turn up anything very = promising, a lot of Consalvi names but the only "Tom" is in his 40's and = lives in Sicklerville, NJ. I'd be interested in what year Tom appears = in the Callbook as W3EOZ.=20 Thanks very much, Jim Hanlon, W8KGI ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C9A87E.EA9AD0D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Mail Lists at theporch.com only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C9A87E.EA9AD0D0-- ------------------------------ End of BOATANCHORS Digest 4256 ******************************