From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:24:26 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.1 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8FC49035 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:24:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEEkXc013096 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:24:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:24:25 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0408B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 71729 Lines: 1622 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:43:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Old extractor Greetings! I have been asked to set up a table at a festival celebrating the 1800s -- this September -- at Cornell Plantations. I would like to have a small, old honey extractor to show. Does anyone in or near NY have an old 2 frame extractor they would lend? Does not have to be functional, it's just for show (we'll likely tie off the handle so kids don't try to rev it up). Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:07:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Old Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/08/2004 05:19:23 GMT Standard Time, Peter Borst writes: > I have been asked to set up a table at a festival celebrating the 1800s -- > this September -- at Cornell Plantations. I would like to have a small, old > honey extractor to show. > I am 56 and 5' 10" and would like an excuse to visit America. I have just finished extracting my honey. Would I do? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:21:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Re: Old Extractor In-Reply-To: <6a.430deee4.2e494f87@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris, at 5'10" and 56 years old I wouldn't think you fit either the small or old they are looking for. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:47:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed Dear all, The Apiculture Lab at Michigan State University is looking for Apistan (fluvalinate) resistant varroa mites. We are conducting research to understand the mechanisms of Apistan resistance. So far we have identified 4 mutations that might be associated with resistance but we need to survey more mites to see if this correlation holds for mite samples from other places. Our previous publications on this subject are at: http://cyberbee.msu.edu/huangpub/2002JAR.pdf http://cyberbee.msu.edu/huangpub/2003IBMB.pdf If your lab or apiary have mites that are known to be resistant to Apistan, or if you know beekeepers who are having trouble controlling mites using Apistan, we would appreciate receiving some mite samples (about 50 mites in 95% ethyl alcohol). We will pay for the postage. Please respond to this request by email to bees@msu.edu. Best regards, Zach Zachary Huang Associate Professor tel: 517-353-8136 Department of Entomology fax: 517-353-4354 Michigan State University mailto:bees@msu.edu East Lansing, Michigan 48824 http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:26:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zach said: . We are conducting research to understand the mechanisms of Apistan resistance. Shouldn't your focus be spent on finding a bee which can tolerate varroa or another method of varroa control instead of understanding the mechanisms of Apistan resistance? I looked at fellow *beekeepers*hives while on a trip to the south a week ago which were alive and thriving after four years untreated . Not only untreated but had at least one frame of drone comb left in the hive all year to increase varroa pressure. Many beekeepers are beginning to see we beekeepers are going to have to solve the varroa problem ourselves. The southern beekeeper is working with a six way closed breeding program using instrumental insemination. Time in my opinion to "think outside the box" and look for a better solution than Apistan & checkmite forever. I mean no disrespect Zach and only voicing an opinion. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:04:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John R. Cunningham" Subject: Bees in honey house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have covered the windows. I turn off the lights and open the door to = let out the bees. There must be a better way. How do others get the bees out of the honey house? John Cunningham=20 Perrysville, IN 105 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:26:53 -0500, Bob Harrison < busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM> wrote: >Shouldn't your focus be spent on finding a bee which can tolerate varroa or >another method of varroa control instead of understanding the mechanisms of >Apistan resistance? Yes! we need to work in many different directions toward controlling the mite (i.e. we should not stop working on varroa just because we have the Russian bees!). I am also working on other methods of mite control (e.g. mitezapper). Understanding mite biology (resistance mechanisms included) itself will help in the long run, even if it looks as though right now it would not help anything. This is also just my opinion. Respectfully, Zachary Huang :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:39:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Bees in honey house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "John R. Cunningham" How do others get the bees out of the honey house? At this time of year, after the honey harvest, I cover up everything within the honey room and then try to PREVENT any bees inside from leaving. They are mostly robbers (assuming supers were cleared efficiently), a general nuisance, no benefit to the apiary overall if they are allowed to return, and likely to INCREASE the nuisance if allowed to escape. The trapped bees die on the windows, quicker if they cannot feed inside the room due to efficient covering up. But at the scale of only 20 hives I do not have the problem of a continuous flow of supers into and out of the room. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:11:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob's postings are usually highly informed, far-sighted and tolerant. Is the heat getting to him? Apistan has given beekeepers an invaluable window of time to learn how to control varroa within normal management procedures. Unfortuneately, in UK at least, the stay of execution has been wasted - Apistan was taken as just a quick fix and the ordinary beekeeper is still unprepared/untrained for the more complex routines that will needed long term. So if Zach can find how to extend the use of Apistan, it would provide a backup for a further period of trials on sustainable long-term treatments. Go to it, Zach! I just hate anedotal accounts of untreated hives surviving . They are quite useless as additions to knowledge as the conditions are not recorded. Bob found 4-year survival hives with drone frames all year. So were varroa being removed in drone brood all thru the year? Or had varroa been eliminated in that particular and isolated locality before treatment was suspended? And what is the varroa population now in each hive that the bees are tolerating? And what is the associated level of virus - we know from Mark Winston that colonies without virus can survive 10,000 mites - whist those with both tracheal and varroa mites can collapse with less than 2,000. These anedotes induce 'oh, let's just see' attitudes that in general only magnify the problem and waste time in the search for safe ways to moderate the internal environment of the beehive so that bees florish but the survival rate of mites is lowered. IMHO the search for bees that have mutated to suppress varroa without external help is interesting but unlikely to help the ordinary beekeeper for a very long time. It would be extraordinary if such bees were found also to have all the qualities paintakinly bred into the wide range of strains beekeepers need to be productive in various locations. I do not want to throw out good temper, adaptation to climate, low swarming just to get inherent varroa suppression. Identifying and transfering just the genes responsible for varroa tolerance would take beekeeping into the arena of GM that is repugnant in so many ways. All I want as a hobbyist is the development of better practical ways to diffuse small quantities of say thymol or tea tree oil or XXX or YYY regularly inside the brood nest - say by incorporating the substances in a porous block that can be hung between combs like old-fashioned moth balls. I do not want to kill varroa - killing substances are poisons that also damage bees and humans - all we need is something that say masks the scent of brood so reducing the efficency with which varroa can find larvae of the right age for sealing, so reducing their reproductive rate to the level where periodic removal of drone brood is a sufficient external control. Manufacturers are not interested, as they would not make money from substances that cost only pennies. Bob is right that it is beekeepers who will have to solve varroa. Amateurs can experiment , but only slowly and blunderingly. So we need an extension of Apistan to save colonies where experiments have failed, as most of them will. Let us encourage Zach , not imply he is on the wrong track. And as beekeepers with a common problem, let us initiate co-ordinated testing of alternative controls. At present, innumerable beekepers have tried something or other but experience has never been accumulated, nor could it be as the conditions of test have never been standardised. Is there any research organisation that could draft a standard test record sheet that had boxes for ALL the factors needed to amalgamate the data obtained - date/colony-size/temperature/initial mite number/last method of treatment/age of beekeeper and so on for the full list of variables that a scientist would record. IT IS VITAL FOR THE FUTURE SAFETY OF BEEKEEPING THAT EXACTLY HOW THE SUBSTANCES WERE OBTAINED AND PREPARED FOR USE AND ADMINISTERED, SAFELY, ARE ALSO RECORDED PLUS ANY PROBLEMS . Could individual beekeepers then post their standardised records on a web site for statistical ananysis by competent persons who would also crit the experiments and suggest ways to focus better on particular features. Would not a co-ordinated group of 50,000 beekeepers worldwide be more likely to find practical effective methods than a few government scientists? Is the world wide community of beekeepers not overdue in taking ownership of this problem that, at least for the foreseeable future, will have to be controlled thru changes to hive management? I myself cannot set up such a co-ordinated approach. Is there someone out there who could? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:39:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bees in honey house In-Reply-To: <002a01c47f69$226e15b0$d6d41545@Carlene> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4580103; boundary="=======226026C3=======" --=======226026C3======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4580103; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I fitted my smaller 8x8 overhead with a screen. At the top corner in a small hole...bee escape...where the bees go out, but most can't get back in. I know one beekeeper who places a nuc next to this opening. I also know of a beekeeper who uses "negative air pressure." He uses a fan to draw air from inside the honey house and blow it outside. He claims this causes negative pressure at all the cracks around doors and windows, and the robber bees can't smell the honey...except at the fan, which is tightly screened. Have I got it right, Rick? Mike --=======226026C3=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:05:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed In-Reply-To: <001a01c47f29$24d2d4c0$22bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > Zach said: > . We are conducting research to understand the mechanisms > of Apistan resistance. > > Shouldn't your focus be spent on finding a bee which can tolerate varroa or > another method of varroa control instead of understanding the mechanisms of > Apistan resistance? That is happening. Even if you find a bee that can tolerate Varroa, how does it tolerate it? In like manner, what mechanism in the mite leads to Apistan tolerance? Both are issues that, if solved, will lead to effective solutions for Varroa, genetic or chemical. It took a while to find out the whys of smallpox vaccinations with cowpox, even though we knew it worked. Once that was learned, it opened up a whole new world that led to other effective treatments of disease. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Bees in honey house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do others get the bees out of the honey house? John Cunningham Perrysville, IN I use a bee vacumn, which in a shopvac with a bee trap located between the inlet hose and the shopvac body. There are many sources that show how to build one. marc studebaker geneva, in. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:33:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Bees in honey house In-Reply-To: <002a01c47f69$226e15b0$d6d41545@Carlene> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:04 AM 8/11/2004, you wrote: >How do others get the bees out of the honey house? I have installed a bee escape in the screen of the window that gets the most sun. All the other windows get covered. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:10:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Hubbard Subject: beekeeping in Cameroon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have recently returned from a trip to Cameroon in west Africa and had the opportunity to see several apiaries as well as talk with a number of beekeepers. =20 Believe it or not the people I met with use the African honeybee. We obviously approached the hives slowly and didn't get too close. They used the Kenyan top bar hive and then used grass or palm leaves on top of the hives 'cause the bees get agitated when rain hits the top of the hives. The beekeepers are able to produce quite a bit of honey due to an enormous amount of nectar available. =20 The biggest problem for the producers is a market. The local economy is very weak (dismally weak compared to anything in the West) and can only support a limited amount of honey. Shipping to the larger cities has a host of problems (vehicles, local road fees, contacts, etc.) and even then the producer can not be sure he'll be able to sell much honey without being taken advantage of. =20 I was asked many times what I knew or could tell them about how to develop markets for their honey. Unfortunately, I could not tell them much but am hopeful that over time I can give them some ideas. Is there anything that honey is a component to which these beekeepers could possible market their crop?? =20 I post this all for your information but would certainly welcome any thoughts on their beekeeping practices and their problem of finding markets for the honey. =20 Mark hubbard@cofo.edu =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:03:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Re: Bees in honey house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How do others get the bees out of the honey house? I turn off all the lights in the honey house and open a large sliding door. All the bees inside take off and head for the light and out they go. Any remaining bees at the end of the day are normally vacuumed up. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:06:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > IMHO the search for bees that have mutated to suppress varroa without > external help is interesting but unlikely to help the ordinary > beekeeper for a very long time... Understanding the mechanism or mechanisms of tolerance can be very useful in working towards solutions. > ...I do not want to throw out good temper, adaptation to > climate, low swarming just to get inherent varroa suppression. Simply adopting the new stock in place of the current stock is probably the least useful way to employ such a strain of bees. The best use would likely be to learn the ways that such bees achieve balance with the mites and viruses, etc., and to then see if these properties can be easily identified and enhanced in commercially useful strains using selective breeding. That, incidentally was the idea behind the SMR research, but many (most) beekeepers and queen producers missed the concept and wanted to use the Baton Rouge SMR stock (which was not particulary notable in any other trait) rather than using the SMR selection process to find and select for SMR ability their own stock. > Identifying and transfering just the genes responsible for varroa > tolerance would take beekeeping into the arena of GM that is > repugnant in so many ways. Identifying and transferring are two very different things; identification need not necessarily result in transferring. Identification is also an essential part of the traditional selection process. Any improvement in identification methods should result in improvements in breeding by selection. Techniques where tiny samples of tissue from individuals (or even the castings of pupae) are examined for the characteristic being sought are now practical and can mean much faster, cheaper, and more accurate selection is possible. If study can identify genes associated with a desirable characteristic, then queens can be tested for those genes before they even emerge from the cell, and only the best kept for hatching and breeding. The ability to quickly identify desirable characteristics in the genes of immature individual queens without having to raise, breed and evaluate offspring shortens the selection process immeasurably, and reduces the expense and chance of error drastically as well. The first step, however, is to find tolerant bees, learn what genes, if any, are associated with observed tolerance, then find out if they exist in the desirable strains of bees we currently use. Then, if that is the case, it may be possible to select for those genes. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:53:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed In-Reply-To: <003b01c47fbd$38ce57d0$1cb85ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit allen dick wrote: > The first step, however, is to find tolerant bees, learn what genes, if any, > are associated with observed tolerance, then find out if they exist in the > desirable strains of bees we currently use. Or learn more about the mite. I know you did not say so, and I guess you would agree, that it is not an either/or situation. One of the best ways with dealing with pests is to find their weakness and exploit it. That is done all the time in medicine. And, in medicine, genetic identification is also going on. I wonder why we continually try to change the bee and not the mite. That may end up being what eventually happens, since usually when the pest kills the host (the kind of relationship that exists with Varroa) there are changes or both die out. I realize that we beekeepers have altered that equation, but research into the mite will help. So send some Apistan resistant varroa. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:41:19 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I often notice ultraviolet insect 'zappers' in people's gardens/yards. I think they are mostly used as a defense against mosquitoes but does anyone know if they also attract and kill honeybees? Especially after the sun sets. Thank you. Waldemar LI, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:45:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? We are trying to sample some Varroa mites from around Michigan. We need to have a quick way to know which colonies have more mites than others since most beekeepers do not use sticky traps. I remember hearing talks (or perhap reading ABJ or BC), some years ago, that certain smoker fuels (grapefruit leaves, etc) can cause mite drop [probably Frank Eischen's work]. Anyone here tried others? I am thinking of using tabacco stems (any tabacco farmer here? :) since they can be cheap or free. I am sure it would work fast, but I am not sure if it will leave some residue (tabacco taste!) in honey or not. I suppose if we give say, 10 puffs to a colony, count mite drop after 15 min on a sticky trap, the residue cannot be that bad. I have found a few web pages on google.com, but anyone actually used any fuel here to see mite knockdown efficiency? Zach Zachary Huang Associate Professor tel: 517-353-8136 Department of Entomology fax: 517-353-4354 Michigan State University mailto:bees@msu.edu East Lansing, Michigan 48824 http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Apistan-resistant Varroa needed Robin (and others), Thanks for the encouragement. I currently have three lines of varroa research: 1). resistance mechanisms of varroa to Apistan 2). mite phylogeny and reproductive biology on Asian bees (Apis cerana), and 3). research to refine and field test the mitezapper -- a noval method for mite control. So it seems I am doing exactly what Bob is wanting me to do :) :) Any other people here think the database suggested by Robin [below] is a good idea? I think if we can get 500 beekeepers submitting data (reliable data with real records in a book), it might be a good study to conduct a "meta analysis". I am willing to setup a database if enough people are interested, I just do not know how many "citizen scientists" are at work. Zach Huang, who always listens :) MSU On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:11:08 +0100, Robin Dartington < gmv47@DIAL.PIPEX.COM> wrote: >scientist would record. IT IS VITAL FOR THE FUTURE SAFETY OF BEEKEEPING THAT >EXACTLY HOW THE SUBSTANCES WERE OBTAINED AND PREPARED FOR USE AND >ADMINISTERED, SAFELY, ARE ALSO RECORDED PLUS ANY PROBLEMS . Could >individual beekeepers then post their standardised records on a web site for >statistical ananysis by competent persons who would also crit the >experiments and suggest ways to focus better on particular features. Would >not a co-ordinated group of 50,000 beekeepers worldwide be more likely to >find practical effective methods than a few government scientists? Is the :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. In-Reply-To: <20040811.144147.9327.262078@webmail19.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:41 PM 8/11/2004, you wrote: >does anyone know if they also attract and kill honeybees? Especially >after the sun sets. I have never seen a honeybee attracted to them, and I really don't think many bees are out after dark. While these devices have a feel good pop and zap sound, I don't think they do much for the mosquitoes either. I seem to remember a consumer reports test that determined that they did little against mosquitoes. Devices that use carbon dioxide as an attractant work better for mosquitoes. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:23:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Zachary Huang" wrote: > I am thinking of using tabacco stems (any tabacco farmer here? :) since they can be > cheap or free. I am sure it would work fast, but I am not sure if it will leave some > residue (tabacco taste!) in honey or not. I suppose if we give say, 10 puffs to a > colony, count mite drop after 15 min on a sticky trap, the residue cannot be that bad. I would urge caution with tobacco. Our National Bee Unit inspectors used it in a very similar way to that which you suggest in the early days of varroa, but it was discontinued after higher than normal winter losses in the treated colonies. I do not have all the details, but I believe that the colonies were smoked with tobacco and then closed for 15 minutes. Perhaps someone on the list can provide more detail. Nicotine is, of course, a potent insecticide and smoking colonies with it will presumably leave some residue on the combs. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:39:14 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I often notice ultraviolet insect 'zappers' in people's gardens/yards. I think they are mostly used as a defense against mosquitoes but does anyone know if they also attract and kill honeybees? Especially after the sun sets. The ones we have here in Australia do attract bees. The only thing about one type is that if the bees are attracted to the light and are electrocuted, then they tend to "explode" and you then get bacteria spread around. If this is in an extracting shed then it is not good QA to have that bacteria having the possibility of getting into your honey. There is another type which is commonly used by beekeepers here and that is a UV light, with a soapy water bath at the bottom. It is constructed so that the bees are attracted to the light and a small fan blows the insects into the water and drowns them. In the morning you can empty the tray with the dead insects and refill. This way you avoid the bacteria getting into your honey. Have a look at their website www.nobugs.com.au Hopes this helps. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:47:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Varroa Resistant Bees vs. Understanding Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> The first step, however, is to find tolerant bees, learn what genes, >> if any, are associated with observed tolerance, then find out if >> they exist in the desirable strains of bees we currently use. > > Or learn more about the mite. I know you did not say so, and I guess > you would agree, that it is not an either/or situation. Yes. I suppose I should have changed the subject line, since I was replying in the context of Robin's comment, "IMHO the search for bees that have mutated to suppress varroa without external help is interesting but unlikely to help the ordinary beekeeper for a very long time.", and not the original discussion following Zach's request for samples of resistant varroa. > One of the best ways with dealing with pests is to find their weakness > and exploit it. That is done all the time in medicine. And, in medicine, > genetic identification is also going on. I wonder why we continually > try to change the bee and not the mite. True, and there is no way of knowing up front which approach will pay off with the best solution(s). Studying the mite for weaknesses has potential. Obviously a magic bullet against the mites, one which does not in any way affect the bees, or humans, or the environment, etc. would be the ideal, but so far, chasing down that road has led to chemicals and mechanical methods that are expensive, toxic, invasive, weather dependant, etc. Moreover, as we have seen, the mite can overcome some chemicals, given time, and using chemicals can lead to marketing and other problems. We all hope to find varroa's Achilles heel, but many intelligent and creative people, including mite experts, have been working on this problem for decades now, without finding it. Finding bees that are tolerant is a great idea, except, as Robin has pointed out, such bees, when found, may not be well adapted to all purposes and climates. This seems to be a problem with the Russian stock, so far, at least, and it remains to be seen how far selection can proceed within that population, without going outside it. Changing bees by identifying and working with susceptibility or tolerance genes has promise, but may or may not work, depending on what else is lost in the selection, and depending on how easy it is to fix the tolerance traits. If susceptibility tends to come back quickly in offspring, or if tolerance is uneven across selected populations, regular requeening with commercially produced queens could be necessary to ensure continuing tolerance. This introduces another wrinkle. Queen suppliers might like this, but beekeepers might find such dependence on suppliers uncomfortable. Are we making progress on any front? So far, we have not found anything that lets us turn our backs on varroa for more than a short while. Will we ever find a solution that allows us to forget about varroa? I wonder, and I wonder whether it will come from altering bees, or from finding varroa's Achilles heel. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:43:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/08/04 02:40:54 GMT Daylight Time, bees@MSU.EDU writes: <> I haven't checked the knockdown rate (thanks for reminding me) but I use 'bee tobacco', and I can confirm that there's no residual aftertaste in the honey. We're all non-smokers and I'd hear all about anything like that! Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:47:59 -0400 Reply-To: dan veilleux Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: dan veilleux Organization: Appalachian State University Subject: Re: Bees in honey house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you have a relatively dark honey you may try darkening the windows except one pane. Remove that pane and replace with plexiglas and insert a conical screen bee escape. The bees will gravitate to the light source and exit thru the escape. The escape pane should be easily removable for the winter Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:29:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be busy this morning feeding yards of bees we pulled honey supers off of yesterday but will try and contact you by phone and share knowledge on evaluating varroa loads later today. Zach said; We are trying to sample some Varroa mites from around Michigan. We need to have a quick way to know which colonies have more mites than others since most beekeepers do not use sticky traps. short version: Smoke is a poor method as the amount of smoke could be different with each application. One reason most prefer the natural drop . A perfect method of getting the varroa sample does not exist! Many methods are in use for evaluating mite loads. The problem is in figuring out what the results mean. Every researcher you talk to puts threshold at a different figure. Every researcher you talk to puts the level you treat at (mites per sticky board or eyther roll) or leave alone at a different number. The number changes if you are trying to winter bees in the north or the south. Getting the drop and knowing what the amount of dead mites mean is a complicated subject. Varroa loads can be high due to other reasons than reproduction in the hive. I have been doing testing for over a decade in many areas of the U.S. (but not in your area) and will try to help. Look forward to talking to you. Your friend, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:40:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: 'young' bees hanging out in front (?) I am not new to beekeeping but sometimes you just scratch your head and wonder - "what the heck...". I created a new colony from two that were attacked by bears. The new hive is exhibiting a curious behaviour. The hive is hard at work but, a handful of young bees (fuzzy) are hanging- out on/over the entrance at all times of the day. Also - there is a beard of bees on this hive at night even though our nights (Seattle) are not very warm. Is it possible the hive is short of space? They have a empty medium super of foundation to occupy. The populous hive of Carnies next to it doesn't behave the same way. Any Ideas? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:51:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar, We had the notorious "Bug Zapper" years ago with bees just across the yard. Never got a bee but did get piles of mosquitoes. Coleene > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:14:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? In-Reply-To: <002c01c48035$b2806f00$5fb787d9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:23 AM, Peter Edwards wrote: > "Zachary Huang" wrote: >> I am thinking of using tabacco stems (any tabacco farmer here? :) >> since > they can be >> cheap or free. I am sure it would work fast, but I am not sure if it >> will > leave some >> residue (tabacco taste!) in honey or not. I suppose if we give say, 10 > puffs to a >> colony, count mite drop after 15 min on a sticky trap, the residue >> cannot > be that bad. > > I would urge caution with tobacco. Our National Bee Unit inspectors > used it > in a very similar way to that which you suggest in the early days of > varroa, > but it was discontinued after higher than normal winter losses in the > treated colonies. I've used tobacco in the manner Zachary suggests, it certainly knocks the mites for a loop, the bees don't like it(good for those mean hives until you get rid of the queen), and it can lay the beekeeper low if you stand downwind from the smoker or get too much. Tibor Szabo of Puslinch Ontario has been doing some tests with tobacco to control varroa. He worked for Ag Canada both in Guelph and Beaverlodge Alberta before he retired. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:51:04 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Trevor, My concern was that, if one kept a couple of hives in a suburban area and the next-door neighbor put up an ultra-violet zapper or two, one could lose a lot of bees. Personally, I go out of my way not to kill a single bee. When extracting, stray bees invariably fly to the light coming through the screened windows. I just lift the screen and let the bees out. Have not seen bees trying to get in; a few bees will approach window screens from the outside but don't make a serious attempt to get in. Thanks, Waldemar LI, NY >The ones we have here in Australia do attract bees. The only thing about one type is that if the bees are attracted to the light and are electrocuted, then they tend to "explode" and you then get bacteria spread around. If this is in an extracting shed then it is not good QA to have that bacteria having the possibility of getting into your honey. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:04:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Ultra-violet Insect Zappers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote > My concern was that, if one kept a couple of hives in a suburban area and the next-door neighbor put up an ultra-violet zapper or two, one could lose a lot of bees. In that case, I would make sure that the entrance of the bees is facing away from where the zapper is. If the bees cannot see it they will probably not be attracted. A barrier such as a hedge or shade cloth would also probably work. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:45:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: 'young' bees hanging out in front (?) In-Reply-To: <200408121940.i7CJWjrC021037@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt, As you mention that you have thrown two colonies together to form one after bear disturbance - and are now seeing bees hanging outside, maybe it is that the two remnant colonies have not mixed. One occupying the combs as expected, the other squatting on the doorstep. Increase in numbers during the evening and night time as foragers are back at base. Any better explanation! Peter P.S. Lousy weather here in South central Manitoba, with a very restricted harvest likely. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:30:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? In-Reply-To: <15b.3c41ae74.2e4c95af@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Zach & all > I am thinking of using tabacco stems... I was one of those in UK that used tobacco for mite detection (prior to the mite arriving) we did not use stalks, but the normal pipe tobacco product... I used St. Bruno, which was placed on top of burning embers in the smoker We used to stuff the entrance with crumpled newspaper at nightfall, pump several strong blasts of pipe tobacco smoke in one end of the entrance and then close up for an hour. Apart from the possible honey contamination (not noticed by me) the main risk was that the test may not have been as effective at the lowest levels of mite infestation as it was thought to be, and this may have contributed to the mite not being found for some time, when it was actually present. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? In-Reply-To: <147754DA-ECC6-11D8-897C-000A956CFFC4@interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2B8C2DE0; boundary="=======6795A03=======" --=======6795A03======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2B8C2DE0; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > the bees don't like it(good for those mean hives >until you get rid of the queen) >Bob Darrell How does this help with mean hives? Mike --=======6795A03=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:12:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040813065525.00b87f00@pop.together.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Aug 13, 2004, at 6:56 AM, Michael Palmer wrote: > >> the bees don't like it(good for those mean hives >> until you get rid of the queen) >> Bob Darrell > > > How does this help with mean hives? > > Mike Mike & all We have all had mean hives that boil out when you open them up. My experience is that they calm down more quickly when tobacco smoke is used. I don't like using it and havn't had to for several years because all of my hives are docile. I have been using Tibor Szabo's queen cells for my spring splits and like the docile productive hives that result. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:17:38 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Goldenrod and colony development. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We have moved several hives out to a beautiful goldenrod field for a late honey crop and to allow splits to build up before the winter. In respect to the strong colonies, does the goldenrod flow stimulate the colonies to continue raising brood way past the normal point of brood shutdown? Do colonies from the current year's splits build up well on goldenrod? I assume that a goldenrod flow should be as effective as feeding thin syrup in encouraging colony build-up. I read somewhere that the orange goldenrod pollen is high quality as well. I have read in the Bee-L archives that goldenrod honey crystalizes fairly quickly. If reasonable goldenrod stores are supplemented with sugar feeding later in the fall, can the bees utilize the stores well? I should think they'll re-liquify the honey well - one would think the feral colonies pack their comb with late goldenrod in many places, too. It would be great to hear on this from someone who's had a first-hand experience with this. Thank you. Waldemar LI, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:14:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: quick way to find mites -- smoker fuel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What about Staghorn Sumac? Seems to me I read some info on the dried heads of this plant knocking down mites. I haven't tried it but there are many patches in this area and it might be worth a try. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Bee Max styrofoam equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have used some Bee Max styrofoam hive-top feeders this year, and the = ants have ruined them. Came in from the top edge under the cover, where = no bees can get to them, and excavated colonies in the plastic. Several = varieties of ants, from big (3/8 inch) black carpenter ants to little = (1/16 inch) black "sugar" ants, and another black species intermediate = in size. Although they seem to have started at the top edge, they = frequently perforated the sidewall (while the feeder was empty, I = reckon). The resulting leaks were quite noticeable -- from 1/16 inch = diameter to 1/4 inch. Anyway, four of the ten feeders I put out have = been put out of business. I suppose the Bee Max supers might be immune to this ant problem, = because there's probably less chance of the ants getting to the top = edges undisturbed by the bees. I like the feeders, but didn't anticipate this problem. I'd suggest = that the top and inner faces be painted (with what?) before use. Right = now, I'm squeezing Gorilla Glue into the visible holes, and letting it = expand as much as it can. Then I plan to paint the feeders with = urethane. Walter Weller :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 21:14:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Raspberries Well, I just want to report back. At one hive per acre, you can expect about 20 pounds of honey per hive. The situation is a well managed, irrigated raspberry farm with a longish blooming season. As a point of interest, the strong hives gave a full shallow super, and the weaker hives didn't put anything away. But on average, with 15 hives at approximately 1 hive per hectar, there's something like 250-300 pounds of honey. Best Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:18:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Bee Max styrofoam equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walter, I had a similar problem with a beemax honey super last year. I cleaned = all ants off and spread vasoline on the top and anywhere the bees could = not reach. I have not had any more problems with ants. Hope this helps. Garry Libby Attleboro, MA U.S.A. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:36:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Goldenrod and colony development. In-Reply-To: <20040813.131754.529.80938@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3D9B61BE; boundary="=======786E2345=======" --=======786E2345======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3D9B61BE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > does the goldenrod flow stimulate the colonies to continue raising > brood Do splits build up well on goldenrod? Yes to both. In years when there is a late flow from Goldenrod/Aster, the bees will continue to lay well into October and early November...in northern Vermont. Especially those late splits. It seems that my 4 frame nucs, made in July, want to raise brood until the last possible moment. > goldenrod flow should be as effective as feeding thin syrup Yes. In fact, here in the north, light colonies at the end of August...after taking off the crop....are left without additional supers...heavy colonies need an additional super to hold the flow. These light colonies place the goldenrod honey in the top of the broodnest, and winter well. > goldenrod honey crystalizes fairly quickly. can the bees utilize the > stores well? I haven't noticed that Goldenrod crystallizes quickly. Surely Aster does. But, whatever...they winter well on the mix. Many colonies don't need additional feeding when there is a good Goldenrod/Aster flow. If your Goldenrod/Aster flow is dependable, you should be able to time the removal of the supers to coincide with the flow and avoid additional fall feeding. Mike --=======786E2345=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:21:09 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dan Weil (kutzi)" Subject: Electronic hive scale and remote monitoring In-Reply-To: <200408140400.i7E2woEG005675@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Some months ago there were letters in regard of a system to remotely monitor hive weight, temperature and humidity. Has anybody got experience with this system? If so, what are the known \ expected benefits? Thanks Dan Weil Dan (kutzi) R&D Yad-Mordechai-Elite Apiary Pollination Services Yad-Mordechai ISRAEL kutzi@polyam.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:22:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Electronic hive scale and remote monitoring In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have experience with remotely monitoring hive weight , temperature and due point. The expected benefits are the intensity of the honey flow the time it happens and when it is over. The computer takes a reading every 120 seconds. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:15:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Goldenrod and colony development. In-Reply-To: <20040813.131754.529.80938@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not and would not overwinter my bees on goldenrod and aster. When I did, they suffered with dysentery when they could not get cleansing flights. Once I stopped overwintering on them, the hives honey production tripled. Lots in the archives on the why and how. You will make it thorough the winter, but poorly. Your bees will overwinter well on summer honey (few particulates) or even better on sugar or HFC syrup. The latter two will also stimulate brood rearing, and they will get all the pollen they need. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:32:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Goldenrod and colony development. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill & All, > I do not and would not overwinter my bees on goldenrod and aster. When I > did, they suffered with dysentery when they could not get cleansing > flights. Once I stopped overwintering on them, the hives honey > production tripled. Lots in the archives on the why and how. > > You will make it thorough the winter, but poorly. > I am wondering, do you breed your own stock or do you buy in new queens to re-queen? Mike P. breeds his own stock and in time he probably has his stock acclimated to his region with weather and forages. This is one good reason to breed ones own bees to enable better wintering on local forage and local weather conditions. I know this fly's in the face of those who think only professional breeders should be breeding queens but real logic begs the other approach of all beekeepers breeding bees and learning how like our grandfathers did. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::