From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:37:29 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NA_DOLLARS,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEF8648AA4 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEVNj0013404 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0503C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 114141 Lines: 2644 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:19:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Radiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Among other things, we have been discussing radiation treatment of bee boxes at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=499#499 In looking around, I found that there are quite a few irradiation facilities in the USA. See http://www.steris.com/isomedix/locations.cfm . From what I can see, some of the facilities have pretty large carriers and should be able to handle bee boxes. One sobering thing I saw, though, in my brief research foray -- at least for those of us who don't wish to think that irradiation will alter the chemical properties of food (human or animal) significantly -- was that e-beam is used for polymer cross-linking. See http://www.steris.com/isomedix/ser_ebeam.cfm. To quote the page: "Materials Modification by automated electron beam irradiation produces physical and chemical improvements in your bulk polymers ", and "Electron beam cross-linking forms a bond between polymer chains". I'm not sure we wish to see physical and chemical improvements' in the pollen, honey, and wax in our hives. Anybody on the list using any of these facilities, or know of other similar firms? Anybody here able to comment further on the 'physical and chemical improvements'? allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:32:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court In-Reply-To: <54.4019f20a.2f677122@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Jim Hock asks... How did MN come to over >ride the label law to begin with? That's a long story of a Federally funded project, tied in with a State Energy Agency. No Environmental Impact Studies ever filed, due to a legal loophole. Add to that, this all sounded good to the ecology minded - plant trees, harvest biomass. But, everyone forget to include a management plan. Leaf chomping bugs showed up in hordes, and it was spray and spray again. This situation was so bad, I got a call from the State of MN, the attourney for the state wanted me to testify for the state, even after I pointed out that if I showed up in court, it would be on the side of the beekeepers. He didn't think that would be a conflict of interest, but I turned him down flat. The three MN beekeepers took this to court, and the lower courts handed down decisions that would have made pesticide labels worthless. The beekeepers kept at it, on their own nickel. And, they're not out of the woods yet. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:35:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court In-Reply-To: <54.4019f20a.2f677122@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All: I got a message from Jim Anderson, one of the three MN beekeepers involved in this litigation. I had sent him a memo congratulating them on the Supreme Court ruling and stating that I hoped to see a fund set up to help defray costs. Jim sent this memo to me. I think it warrants sharing to the List, although Jim would be too modest to distribute this widely. Here's his exact words: Hi Jerry I have been absolutely swamped trying to keep up with bee movement this spring. I had intended to contact you that we had gotten a really good decision out of the Supreme Court. We had a conference call with our attorneys this week. I expect to take this on into court, but we have to wait for the court system to contact us. I imagine that we are up for a real fight in court as well. I am positive that the chemical industry, applicators etc. will not go down gracefully. As far as contributions, that would be hugely helpful. So far to date, Jim Steve and myself are out somewhere around $130,000 in legal fees. God is blessing, and we are current. Steve and I are trying to figure out the best option for legal defense going forward, we are considering going with expensive legal counsel. It is my opinion that expensive may in the long run be significantly cheaper. Hope this finds you well. I have attached the brief FYI. Feel free to pass it widely. Even the descent is really good for beekeepers in my opinion. Sincerely Jeff Anderson California Minnesota Honey Farms 7342 River Road Oakdale CA 95361 209-847-4731 721 Wells Street Eagle Bend MN.56446 218-738-6712 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:37:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050311162130.04c14e58@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MN Brief: Jim sent me the Supreme Court brief. I can forward it upon request, didn't post to Bee-L because of its size. Maybe Allen Dick will put it on his web page. I'd post on ours, but we're in the middle of a major revamp. Thanks Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:30:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Judy & Dave Gaida Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry B offers to send the Supreme Court brief to those interested. If we are talking about the Supreme Court decision/opinion, you can access it by going to: http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/index.html AND SELECTING/CLICKING ON: Index by Release Date AND SELECTING/CLICKING ON: 2005 January - March AND SELECTING/CLICKING ON: A03-679 At this point you will have the complete decision before you. Apologize for the roundaboutness but next time we will all know how to find one! Judy Beekeeper in Kentucky, USA > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Fw: bee hives at a middle school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a good question. Anyone care to take it on? allen --- Condon, Lucy A wrote: > I am interested in setting up a bee colony on my middle school campus, > as a learning project, to increase the bee pollinators, and possible > career option for some of our students. > > I know nothing about bee cultivation. No one on campus knows about > bee cultivation. Am I crazy? Is it possibility to do so with > students? Do you know anyone near the Houston, Texas area that could > advise me? > > Thanks for your time, > > Lucy Condon > Burbank Middle School > 315 Berry Road > Houston, Texas 77022 > starwanderer2001@yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Ruzicka Subject: Trial Proposal Clarification - Screen Bottoms - SH Beetle Yes, this trial is North American wide. It has two parts: 1. Screen bottom efficacy improvement in Canada and parts of the USA where there are no beetle. 2. SHB repellent - mostly the southern states and with two versions - with or without screen bottoms. As this trial will require a lot of work it may be of advantage for each participant to handle just 4 - 6 hives and be part of an assigned "group". :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:26:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school In-Reply-To: <0d1a01c529a0$f4955260$b87ba8c0@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bees on school campuses -- good idea from an educational standpoint, but iffy from an administrator and parental viewpoint. People worry about stings and allergic reactions. The middle schools in my area get nervous if we bring an observation hive in the door. Bees can be kept successfully and safely in such a setting, but its not a task for a novice. Lots of things can and will go wrong, and sick or dead colonies don't leave a good impression. Many Musuems of Natural History have learned that its relatively easy to manage people and bees in close proximity - there's an observation hive on the Smithsonian Mall in D.C. But, keeping the hive in good shape is another matter. I've kept hives going in my Univ offices for years -- so it can be done. And people sit at a picnic table just a few feet from the window that the bees coming and go through. It takes some work to keep it in good shape, but we've generally run it year round. Been down for the past year -- too much travel. But it will be up and back on line this spring. Keeping the bees in my office started with an educational exercise for my office neighbors -- the prof on the floor above my office is allergic to bees -- so in the first stages, he was really nervous. Now he shrugs, says -- no problem. Also, campus safety called our Dept of Ag in Helena, ask if bees could be kept in such a setting. They were told to contact the state expert -- who happened to yours truly. We're now a popular stop for school kids, adults, etc. But it took some real work to gain acceptance. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:25:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ray Michaud Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder what kind of liability insurance policy you would need? A lot of schools will not let you bring an observation hive in when you go in to talk to the children about beekeeping. Due to the liability of someone getting stung. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:07:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John's Honey Subject: Gold Line MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob Harrison said - We got a 100% introduction with the original bees we brought back from Georgia and found the bee to be more varroa tolerant that the Russian bee. The Gold line bee is easier to introduce than the Russian Bob, did you use the push-in cage over emerging brood method with the Gold Line or some other method? John Cunningham Central Indiana :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:25:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leif Woodman Subject: Re: Radiation In-Reply-To: <0cc901c5297a$d1a46cd0$b87ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking at the services that the sterilization facility provides: "START provides Documentation for Traceability QSR documentation of all processing phases, from receiving to shipping Internal Certificates of Processing provide product information and minimum/maximum absorbed dose" The documentation end is easy. As far as the minimum and maximum dose, do they measure it or just calculate it using the inverse square law and the half value layer thickness of the material being irradiated. I got some AFB last season, I promptly burned the frames, but the boxes I am going to irradiate. I am planning to just take the boxes to my work and put them in the corner of a room. Oh yes, in the room we do radiography on piping and pressure vessels. We use mostly Iridium 192 isotope, but we also have a Cobalt 60 source, both provide gamma radiation. I am just going to place the boxes in the corner and let them get irradiated for a day before I reuse them. Because I do not know which supers were on the colony with AFB I am also planning on irradiating all of my supers in the same manner. I am going to use the guidelines set out by Ontario beekeepers assoc. for the dose to the boxes, but with the amount of activity we have in our sources it will only take a few minutes to get what the recommend as a minimum. I am going to just do the calculations to obtain what the dose rate they received was. Leif Woodman lwodman@qisi.com www.qisi.com ASNT LVL III #125787 AWS CWI #90010123 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:54:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Gold Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John asks: Bob, did you use the push-in cage over emerging brood method with the Gold Line or some other method? The push in cage over emerging brood but a regular introduction cage might work. Brushy Mountain has an interesting looking plastic push in introduction cage with a place for queen candy in the 2005 catalog. None of the beekeepers at the Missouri State Beekeepers meeting last week had tried the new cage but several had ordered a few to try. I believe I will try a few of the plastic push in this spring. My partner ( Glenn Davis owner of Bell Hill Honey) likes the Purvis Brothers "Gold Line" bee better than the Russian but about the only Russians he has are ones I have given him to try. He does an excellent job of testing and taking care of his bees. I have at times left both Glenn Apiaries breeder queens and Purvis brother "blue line" Russian breeder queens in his home yard to use if he wants when raising queens. He lets me make cells from his Glenn apiaries breeder queens. Both of us are pleased with the breeder queens we have received from Glenn Apiaries over the years. Glenn Davis looks at me funny at times for the amount of time I spend on the Russians and my many experiments but he is always interested when I make a new discovery or come up with a new idea! My partner is in his second year with the "gold line" and is pleased as he ordered a large number of gold line queens this spring. He is using Kona and other queen breeders queens until the Purvis queens are ready. We were not happy with Kona queens *FOR OUR AREA* years ago but are very pleased with the queens we have received over the last few years. I am using a hundred of the 2005 Purvis Brothers "Blue Line" Russian/Russian queens for my drone source colonies this year. I am using one of the 2004 Purvis Brothers instrumentally inseminated breeder queens I brought back from Georgia to graft from. I have not yet decided which one but all have survived the winter and have low mite counts. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:13:52 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The more direct link is: http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/supct/0503/opa030679-0303.htm I like the "trespassing bees" defense, that was rich. I am told we are having a similar problem here in Connecticut with lawn treatment companies using Tempo. It would be very hard to pin down the death of a hive to one treatment on one lawn when the practice is common. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:56:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <20050314141015.94731.qmail@web20821.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before you make any quick judgments about your over-winter colonies dieing of Varroa, Tracheal mites have been detected in many colonies here in Maine as the cause of colony death. Varroa is still the main problem. This was reported to us by Tony Jadczak at our monthly chapter meeting of local beekeepers. Tracheal mites are the easiest to prevent with Crisco patties or vegetable oil soaked towels, but, if you are like me, after so many years with no problems I have grown a bit lax in applying the winter patties. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:17:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <42383B1B.3040403@suscom-maine.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-41C5403D > Tracheal mites have been detected in many colonies >here in Maine reported to us by Tony Jadczak In a phone conversation with Tony, last week, he reported colonies with 70 - 80% infestation. >Tracheal mites are the easiest to prevent with Crisco patties >Bill Truesdell Well, I suppose they can be treated with Crisco, but IMHO, breeding is the best and proper way to tackle Tracheal Mites. Band Aids may work for awhile...until a year like this, when the infestation creeps up from behind, and bites you on the behind. Do some requeening this summer with resistant stock, and leave the Crisco in your pantry cupboard. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:58:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rosalind James Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school Comments: To: Allen Dick The teacher wanting to keep bees at school in order to teach about pollination and biology, might consider setting up a nesting block of solitary bees. They will not sting unless you actually grab them, or pinch them, and the sting is not very painful to boot. She may be able to get bees, supplies and lots of instructions from Pollinators Paradise http://www.pollinatorparadise.com/ The woman who runs that site, Dr. Karen Strickler, would probably be happy to help. Rosalind James :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:57:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Gold Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said: I am using a hundred of the 2005 Purvis Brothers "Blue Line" Russian/Russian queens for my drone source colonies this year. The above is not quite accurate so needs correction. The queens I am getting will be open mated in an area of both Gold line and blue line drones in Georgia which I do not have a problem with. So many most likely will be a hybrid but not all. If I had elected to wait another month Purvis could have supplied Russian/Russian from his north Georgia remote mating yards. Because I will be grafting and raising my own Russian/Russian in May I could not wait. I needed the replacement drone source as I had to pull the California queen breeders *so called Russians* (talked about in prior post) from the drone pool. If the California queen breeder had grafted as he said from a Russian/Russian queen then the drone source would have been Russian but he did not so they are useless as far as my Russian program is concerned and are now sitting many miles away but will still be used for honey production. I said: I am using one of the 2004 Purvis Brothers instrumentally inseminated breeder queens I brought back from Georgia to graft from. The queens I graft and raise and mate to the *early* Purvis Brothers 2005 Blue line Russian production queens (does not matter which drone source they were mated to Blue or gold line) will produce Russian/Russian stock since the drone does not have a father but a grandfather. AND Unlike the California queen breeder I am using a pure Russian queen instrumentally inseminated myself with the semen from a pure Russian drone to graft from. Also to keep up to date with the USDA-ARS Russian program Purvis has purchased a 2005 Russian breeder queen from Charlie Harper to graft from. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The local FFA has asked me to provide a couple of hives for them this year and drop by and teach them about bees. They've offered to build a fence around the hives and some stands. I'm not sure yet if I will do it or not as I am afraid one of the kids will get stung and blame it on me. I guess in a couple of months I will make a decision but for now it's been interesting pondering the results. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosalind James" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Fw: bee hives at a middle school > The teacher wanting to keep bees at school in order to teach about > pollination and biology, might consider setting up a nesting block of > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court In-Reply-To: <1f3.5fc07aa.2f691a90@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Jim Hock commented about lawn services in CN. Two points of information: 1) Many years ago, a CN group studied reported bee kills in a variety of settings, and found a that most of these bees had been exposed to several pesticides (some of which may have been from persistent residuals, 2) About the same time, we looked at brood rearing success at about 200 locations in Seattle -- worst brood performance tended to be in the more affluent suburb areas -- we suspected contract lawn services might have been the deciding factor (e.g., poor folks may not spray as much or as often). Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:19:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike said: In a phone conversation with Tony, last week, he reported colonies with 70 - 80% infestation. Another beekeeper cought "asleep at the wheel". 70-80% infestation does not happen fast! >Tracheal mites are the easiest to prevent with Crisco patties >Bill Truesdell Prevent yes. Will take menthol to clear the above hives and I suspect menthol a waste of money for the most infested. 70-80% comes with a " bunch of hive are going to die " statement from me as the damage is done already to the trachea. Michael said: Well, I suppose they can be treated with Crisco, but IMHO, breeding is the best and proper way to tackle Tracheal Mites. Breeding is best for sure. However if you run Italian bees they always seem to have a tracheal full of tracheal mites. I have bought Italian bees which the breeder claims tracheal mites do not bother but my tests show even those bees needed treatment every few years. The dark bees seem to tolerate tracheal mites better than the Italians. Tracheal mites are a non issue with the Russians I have tested. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:31:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Brumfield Subject: Hive Body Replacement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have a good strong hive that needs a new home, at least the upstairs needs replaced. The Brood chamber wood is in good condition but needs paint. It has crossed my mind to replace the bottom board and try to paint the brood chamber and replace the rotting super. Has anyone had any luck painting a hive with bees inside? I really don't want to kill them. My next question is if I have to remove all the frames in the hive and put them in new bodies, when is the best time of year to do this? Thanks for any advice on dealing with a rotting hive body. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:57:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <001d01c52a65$6f06b060$1abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > The dark bees seem to tolerate tracheal mites better than the Italians. > Tracheal mites are a non issue with the Russians I have tested. Thank you for the post, Bob. Tolerate is the operative word. Often even tolerant bees will not get through the winter as well as they should since they have tracheal mites. But they will pick up in the spring and most beekeepers will not even know there was a problem other than it was a "weak" hive. My only reason for the post was a reminder that they are still around, but most beekeepers have forgotten them and treat exclusively for Varroa. If the hive dies, it is always Varroa. But maybe not. The hive that was so infested was not a singularity. Tony is seeing the mite more this year than others. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:23:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Hive Body Replacement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Has anyone had any luck painting a hive with bees inside? Not a problem . paint away. Late in the day is a good time. >I really don't want to kill them. Take more than a dab of paint to kill a honeybee. I would use a latex paint. >My next question is if I have to remove all the frames in the hive and put them in new bodies, when is the best time of year to do this? Frist warm day around 70F. if no wind. Spring is best as you have got less bees to deal with. I have switched boxes with temps colder than 70F. but it may take you awhile if your first time. Takes me about five minutes to switch a deep out. DO NOT REARRANGE THE NEST until you know what you are doing. Never split the brood nest in early spring. >Thanks for any advice on dealing with a rotting hive body. Always try to keep your equipment in a condition you could move if the need happens. The bees don't care how rotton a box is but you and your buddy will if you for whatever reason should have to move the hive to another location on short notice! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:40:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Hive Body Replacement In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050316172404.01b10718@mail.ntelos.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Make sure that the fresh paint inside has had time to dry completely - and any vapors have totally dissipated. This is most probably less of a problem with Latex paints. I have read somewhere - ?????? in the recent past that boxes with flaking paint are going to be more than frowned upon. Dipping in wax to be the preferred method. I wonder how long it will be before painted surfaces are outlawed completely. Shall try to retrace my visits and get the reference - that is unless some kind soul already knows and points out the info. Transferring frames into cleaned boxes helps ensure that the interior does not get completely gummed up. The latter procedure I know is wishful thinking. But it does help esp. if frames are getting on in condition and the timber is becoming brittle. Not much worse than a hive tool levering out a frame when the only thing that moves is the top and one side, leaving the wax component and bottom bar stuck to the floor. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:49:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <4238C7D0.8050907@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When looking for Tracheal mites - is it essential to dissect freshly killed bees - or is it possible to deal with dead bees from a dead colony. I do not know if the trachea would have deteriorated to such an extent that the clarity would have been compromised. The bees that I would like to look at are not visibly rotten (exoskeleton). I suppose the logical answer is to try my self - but if it is possible to only collect samples for the moment and deal with them in a week, then it would help. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:37:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Hive Body Replacement In-Reply-To: <42391845.4020303@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6B6A688A > >Make sure that the fresh paint inside has had time to dry completely - and >any vapors have totally dissipated. > Peter Why do you paint the inside of the box? I have never found it necessary. Just wondering out loud. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan & Jan Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A potential problem with the public is that any sting is a bee sting. Dan Veilleux Boone area In the Mountains of NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Lackey, Raymond J (US SSA)" Subject: bee hives at a middle school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have built and installed many observation hives for both nature centers and schools (including NYC). The most distant I have shipped is Washington State (from 50 miles east of NYC). I always stress that the cost of maintenance should include monthly visits by an experienced beekeeper. I charge for it with the locals and they generally pay gladly. At many of the locations, I have been told that it is the most popular exhibit for children of all ages. I have interchangeable single or double frame widths on a common base so that we can use a two frame width in winter. They winter much better but limit viewing of the queen. I also carry small observation hives into schools. I carry $2M liability to do this. See my articles in ABJ, probably almost three years ago? Raymond J. Lackey Sweet Pines Apiary Master Beekeeper - Eastern Apiculture Society/OSU Director - Long Island Region - Empire State Honey Producers Association President (again) - Long Island Beekeepers Association Honeybee Consultant - North American Fruit Explorers Speaker -BOCES (schools) and LI Speaker's Association ~20 colonies (honey production & pollination) >20 years experience Phone:(631)567-1936 FAX:(631)262-8053 mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia, NY 11716-2176 web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: lackeyray@tianca.com email office: Raymond.lackey@baesystems.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:48:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Fw: bee hives at a middle school In-Reply-To: <001301c52af9$2e9cd2e0$a924d044@ownerzq0yukl00> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I often take people (friends, strangers, Cub Scout troops) out to see the bees. I have suits for those who get up close, and I warn them of the possibility of getting stung, but I sometimes worry about my liability if anything happens. Is there some kind of contract I can use to protect myself? Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:07:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >When looking for Tracheal mites - is it essential to dissect freshly killed bees - or is it possible to deal with dead bees from a dead colony. I like freshly killed as the color of the tracheal has not been compromised. >The bees that I would like to look at are not visibly rotten (exoskeleton). A powerful microscope will find the tracheal mites unless mush but hard sometimes with a lower power or using poor lighting. > if it is possible to only collect samples for the moment and deal with them in a week, then it would help. Samples sit for weeks in solution at the bee labs. If you know what you are looking for a diagnosis can be made as long as you are not looking at mush. I like to keep samples frozen but have not seen others use the practice. I like my samples "crispy". Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ed Mabesoone Subject: Cumaphos In years past I have made lip balm as well as hand cream using beeswax from my colonies, however the use of Cumaphos put an abrupt halt to making these items. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced OTC test for Cumaphos in wax. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:18:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...but if it is > possible to only collect samples for the moment and deal with them in > a week, then it would help. Use isopropyl alcohol -- cheap at any drug store -- or winter windshield washer fluid to store the bees. The concentration of alcohol will determine how 'crisp' they are. If they are too crisp, then put them in a more dilute solution a few hours (24?) before you work on them. A good binocular (dissecting) microscope with a good light is esential for learning. If you don't have one, consult your local high school lab teacher and arrange a session or loan. We discussed this all on BEE-L years back, and even arranged a group microscope purchase, if I recall. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:02:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Cumaphos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed said: In years past I have made lip balm as well as hand cream using beeswax from my colonies, however the use of Cumaphos put an abrupt halt to making these items. Others may not agree but I do not believe you would have a problem with fresh cappings wax. For sure with brood comb wax if coumaphos has been used. If I remember correctly ( information from the bee lab) with one application of Checkmite you get up to 50 PPM and two applications up to 75PPM. If per label use has been done 75PPM seems to be the high point even after several years. If the use of coumaphos dip illegally has been used it can push coumaphos levels to many hundreds of parts per million rendering the comb useless for beekeeping. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced OTC test for Cumaphos in wax. No! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:02:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Peter Dillon wrote: > When looking for Tracheal mites - is it essential to > dissect freshly killed bees - or is it possible to > deal with dead bees from a dead colony. > >From what I've heard, you need to use fresh samples. If you can't inspect the samples for a week or so, store in rubbing alcohol. Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:06:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: bee hives at a middle school In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ray said: >I have built and installed many observation hives ... I always stress that the >cost of maintenance should include monthly visits by an experienced >beekeeper. I charge for it.... I also carry small observation hives into >schools. I carry $2M >liability to do this. Ray has it right -- you need an experienced person, aware of the liability issues, etc. If done appropriately, these can be highly successful exhibits. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:09:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <003401c52b04$9e2781e0$6500a8c0@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Storage in alcohol is fine, but dilute it or the samples will harden. Like Bob, we freeze everything -- the colors are better, and a freshly thawed bee is easy to dissect. About 10-20 minutes at room temperature after removal from the freezer should be ideal. Too long, and they get mushy. Jerry 25,000 bees cut and counting. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:12:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Tracheal mites are the easiest to prevent with Crisco patties With reservations. Using Crisco patties is a *very* mild preventative, and one which may or may not work in a specific situation. It is one I would not trust without monitoring for efficiacy annually. Monitor, monitor, monitor. > Will take menthol to clear the above hives and I suspect menthol a > waste of money for the most infested. Agreed > Breeding is best for sure. Agreed, but breeding is hard to see with the naked eye. Unfortunately, people assume that, just because there was no problem with stock from a breeder one year, that there will be none the next. Not so, relying on most US breeders bees to be tracheal resitant is a crapshoot, if the sampling data from our good friends at Baton Rouge is any indication. See http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/tracheal.htm Also, regarding tracheal mite treatments, see http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ for some ideas and links. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:21:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Cumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Ed Mabesoone wrote: > In years past I have made lip balm as well as hand > cream using beeswax from > my colonies, however the use of Cumaphos put an > abrupt halt to making these > items. Usually, the wax you get from cappings are chemical free. If not, then you need to consider that your honey is contaminated as well. What think the rest of you out there. Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:27:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Danilo Subject: hybrid drones?! In-Reply-To: <003401c52b04$9e2781e0$6500a8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In his book "The Hive and the Honey Bee", pg.168, G.H. Cale Jr. says, "A drone bee, a haploid can never be a hybrid." Well, I wonder what he means by that. When a hybrid queen from, let`s say, a A.M.scutellata ("african") queen and a A.M. ligustica drone produces drones would they be (considering the haploidy phenomenon): a) Africanized (hybrid?) drones? or b) pure drones (part scutellata, part ligustica?). I would appreciate any comments about this. Regards, Danilo Fonseca --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:59:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: hybrid drones?! "A drone bee, a haploid can never be a hybrid." the drone has no father pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:21:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Cumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: <20050317172143.23168.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Mike said: Usually, the wax you get from cappings are chemical >free. If not, then you need to consider that your >honey is contaminated as well. Neither statement is entirely 'true'. Wax is wax, only reason cappings might have less contamination are: 1) cappings wax is newer, may have been produced AFTER the exposure event, or 2) cappings DILUTE some of the contaminants found in old wax. Keep in mind, bees don't alway use new wax for cappings -- under heavy brooding or a heavy nectar flow they will tear down wax from one part of the hive, move it to another. And sorry Bob, but since bees move wax around, your brood nest is not safe, although the odds are that it may be less contaminated than wax in the honey supers, but not guarantee. Also, volatiles from organics quickly permeate throughout the air inside a colony. (See our book chapter, oft cited herein) As per contaminated wax = contaminated honey -- again, depending on the chemical and its partitioning coefficients, any contaminant may occur in both the wax and honey; or in the honey, or in the wax. Some chemicals move to water-based substances quicker, some to waxy materials, some to both. I assume most if not all of you know that we've spent 30 years researching the movements of chemicals through beehives, thousands of chemical samples -- so I'm summarizing our data, not giving an opinion. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:16:16 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Coumaphos in wax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When Checkmite was introduced the label had some half-baked wording that prohibited producing comb honey from a hive that was treated in the spring. Knowing that the coumaphous formulation was deliberately made to be hydrophobic, I did not understand. With relatively little effort I managed to find the actual person at FDA (EPA?), who approved the label and learned that Bayer wanted those words, although they had no indications that use of coumaphous in the spring would contaminate the subsequent comb honey. The FDA agreed, but only because Bayer promised to do tests to determine if such contamination was a danger. The tests subsequently showed there was no such contamination, and the wording was withdrawn the following year. So, the short answer is that new wax made from bees will not be contaminated, but wax existing at the time of treatment will absorb significant quantities. Under controlled conditions, cappings wax has been tested time and again and found to be free of coumaphous. That said, a couple of years ago I had occassion to have some wax tested for contamination and the readings were far, far higher than those that have been reported here (in the past couple of days). This wax was being sold as capping wax, but had been sold to a rendering house by a well-known commercial beekeeper. I did not pay for the first tests, which were done in France, but because the results were so high I paid personally for a subsequent test by Columbia Lab. in Oregon (?)...same house used by the NHB. I got the same results that they got in France. (Test costs $200, and that is still the price today.) Eventually this was reported to the USDA, without the name of the beekeeper, and the reaction was 'so what'? They had been seeing these results for a long time. Very bad and scary stuff. Next I contacted certain of those that make foundation for beekeepers. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that those that I contacted had been randomly having their foundation checked and were finding no contamination. That is real important for those of us who someday hope to again have foundation without pesticides. Something (unknown) in the manufacturing process is removing the coumaphous and fluvalinate. No, I am not going to tell you the manufacturers I contacted. They do not advertise their product as free of such contaminates as they do not check all batches. But, it is a wonder that OSHA has not issued instructions requiring robots or gloves when handling extracting frames! I've had some tell me they would not handle such frames otherwise. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:33:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Cumaphos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" To: Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Cumaphos > Ed said: > In years past I have made lip balm as well as hand cream using beeswax from > my colonies, however the use of Cumaphos put an abrupt halt to making these > items. Hello Bob and all, This is about as good as time as any to put out a warning. Lip balm no. All comb in the brood nest that has been in there sense apistan should be culled out--Period! Those chemicals have been going into the wax. No dough in that statement. I'm getting reports from California about the bees not taking off as good this year or as normal. We have been through the weather thing and many other possibilities. You are only as healthy as the environment you live in. Those chemicals did not kill the bees, if followed there direction of use. What is left now is, those chemicals at low levels in the brood box combs. WE know to replace 30% of the comb each year , so we have a good place to raise the larva. I dough many beekeepers do that at all. I do not expect many beekeepers to get the picture. I had a call yesterday from 150 miles away from a farmer friends wife. She has used some Russian stock and her bees (only two hive are ready to split) are doing great. She has been talking to me at the farmers markets about beekeeping. Both of her neighbors have lost all there bees but not one of them would come and ask her why she was so lucky. Its not luck. On March 14th 2005 I saw honey coming in for the first time. We are having a very early spring. But that is not the real good news, les than 4% loss this winter. 3.73 %. It has taken a long time to get all my bees in top health without chemicals. I still change out the old comb in the brood nest every year.So the results are in and I will be doing some queen rearing this year for sale. Most are spoken for already. I will do it for 1 month and that's it. Location is the problem. Keep clean brood nests and give the bees a chance to do what they do so well. Raise young.healthy bees. Thank You Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wa. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:19:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: hybrid drones?! In-Reply-To: <200503171811.j2HHhjuM018212@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:59 PM 3/17/2005, you wrote: >"A drone bee, a haploid can never be a hybrid." > >the drone has no father But aren't the queens eggs formed by meiosis (cell division where the queens diploid cell becomes the haploid cell of the egg)? And during the process genetic reassortment (I've heard it called other names), mixes up the chromosomes from the queens parents. Meaning that each egg (and hence each drone) is not a perfect copy of either of the queens parents. So yes, a haploid can be a hybrid. It will be a mix of the queen's mother and father. http://www.sparknotes.com/biology/cellreproduction/meiosis/section1.html -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:43:43 +0200 Reply-To: Paul Collett Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Organization: Rhodes University Subject: Re: hybrid drones?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "A drone bee, a haploid can never be a hybrid." I agree with Tim, a haploid bee (drone) simply means that it possesses genes only from the queen, and there is no contribution from any male. In essence, the drone is a clone (sometimes called a pseudoclone) of the queen. So, yes, if the queen is hybrid, the drone will also be a hybrid. What the book most likely meant was that if Queen X mates with Drone Y, the drone offspring would not be a hybrid of X and Y as the worker offspring would be, but rather would be X. Hope that makes enough sense. Keep well Paul Collett :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:45:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Riach Subject: Hybrid Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We know what "Drone" means.Can someone define "Hybrid". If the Drone was being wholly truthful he would say "I'm definately not a Hybrid - like wot my mother is." Alan Riach Edinburgh :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ed Mabesoone Subject: Re: Cumaphos Hello All Thanks to everyone for the information. My questions have for sure been answered and I certainly appeciate the time everyone took to help. Ed :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: hybrid drones?! On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:19:40 -0500, Tim Arheit wrote: > So yes, a haploid can be a hybrid. It will be a mix of the queen's mother and father. Well, it's more complicated than that. If a "hybrid" is a cross between a male and a female of different genetic components, then the drone cannot be a hybrid because it has only the female's components. Laidlaw writes: "The drones are sons; but they are not truly sons even thought they are male. They do not belong to either parental or filial generations." from "Contemporary Queen Rearing" by Harry H. Laidlaw, 1979 pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:36:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Articles of some interest from the Swiss Research Center with regard to the wax contamination : http://www.apis.admin.ch/en/bienenprodukte/docs/produkte/waxbeeworld2004.pdf http://www.apis.admin.ch/en/bienenprodukte/docs/rueckstaende/pestizidrueckposter2003_e.pdf And wax replacement for organic beekeeping (takes time !): http://www.apis.admin.ch/de/bienenhaltung/docs/wachsumstellung_d.pdf Hervé Découvrez nos promotions exclusives "destination de la Tunisie, du Maroc, des Baléares et la Rép. Dominicaine sur Yahoo! Voyages : http://fr.travel.yahoo.com/promotions/mar14.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:57:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: <20050318143652.81092.qmail@web20825.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hervé Our work has shown that wax can become contaminated within minutes/hrs. It can take weeks or even years to reverse the process - by natural depuration. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:06:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050318085558.042d2ec0@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13EA1095 > natural >depuration. Interesting word. How does that differ from degradation? Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:23:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: U.S. Beekeeping industry needs help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Six months ago I predicted on BEE-L a collapse of U.S. commercial beehives. My exact words were: "Tens of thousands of hives of hives crashing" My post brought a roar of disbelief on BEE-L. An article in the January 2005 issue (vol. 33 no. 1) of Bee Culture by Dewayne Lumpkin used the following statement (by Bob Harrison) to start his very informative article: "tens of thousands of hives crashing" was the subject line that dominated BEE-L's message boards through much of October & early November" . I received the American Beekeeping Federation (ABF) newsletter a couple days ago and again my statement used by my friend Troy Fore. "The ABF has asked Congress for a 100% increase in federal bee research funding in an effort to find a solution to the deaths of TENS OF THOUSANDS OF BEE COLONIES THIS WINTER. " I must say now as I have before on BEE-L and to those which have sent emails asking to quote from my BEE-L posts in various publications. Please do but please quote correctly. Both Dewayne & Troy have written excellent articles for Bee Culture & the ABF newsletter. Right on target! Many have critisized me for being a presenter of "doom & gloom". Ignoring a problem never solved a problem! Others have sent a email similar to one I received tonight which touched my heart and sparked this post: Hi Bob, I retired from my job recently & am looking for things to do. My hobby is beekeeping . Do you need anyone to proofread your articles? Do you have anything else I can help with? Sincerely, Name withheld by me The ABF is seeking funding for the USDA-ARS to employ 16 new scientists, including two geneticists,two molecular biologists ,and two computational biologists. The current administrations answer is to cut funding to the bee labs by $640,000. I have been told you can find out how you can help at the ABF website: www.ABFnet.org if you are not a ABF member and getting the ABF newsletter which provides Congress contact information provided by Mr. Troy Fore. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:28:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: U.S. Beekeeping industry needs help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I also need your help! I am a full time beekeeper (actually retired in 1998) but beekeeping still dominates my days. I am the guy at bee meetings wearing the hat which says: "will somebody tell my wife I am retired!" My point is the next six weeks are busy times for me but still want to appeal to the list to keep their eyes and ears open for information (possibly off the net) which will help me on my next research project later this summer. My friend Troy Fore lists three possible causes for the massive bee die-off in his ABF report. 1. Are varroa mites killing the bees directly? 2. Are varroa serving as vectors for virus? 3.Are residues of mite treatments causing the deaths? We know number 1 & 3 are playing a part without a doubt but no. 2 has raised its ugly head the last two summers in my area. Hives which are not infested to a level even considered a treatment needed level under IPM standards set out by researchers have crashed from parasitic mite syndrum (PMS). Packages have crashed within five months of installation with PMS symptoms. My research is based on the belief (possibly misguided!) that a natural solution to virus control exists. My health food store friends have given me the name of two possible substances which could be fed to bees or used in hives to bolster the immune systems of honey bees to fight viral infections. reports are they work in humans but would they be of help for honey bees. Don't know! Two I am looking at are green walnut hull solution & Olive leaf solution. Are there others the list can suggest for consideration? Lastly Dann Purvis and myself have observed and I have written in articles about. The observation we both have made that hives which seem to tolerate varroa the best are producers of large amounts of propolis. Could the anti viral properties of propolis be of help in controlling PMS virus problems in honey bee colonies? Could decades of breeding selection against bees which produce propolis been a mistake? Don't know but a burning question in my mind. It will take several years to see if one of the above or other treatments others suggest might work on the virus issue. I do promise to read all information sent to me but email answers will be slow in coming due to my busy time of the year. Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. First load of hives from first import of Australian packages being unloaded in Missouri tonight and second load arriving tomorrow. Look for my pictures & comments in the May American Bee Journal "Australian package" article part 2 along with my interviews with three commercial beekeepers which received packages on the first import. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:24:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: "tens of thousands of hives crashing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My post brought a roar of disbelief on BEE-L. Good reporters stick to the facts. I could not remember any "roar of disbelief on BEE-L", and I try to be a good reporter, so I went looking back through the archive of BEE-L postings that I keep on my computer to straighten myself out. I checked October and November, 2004, and could not find even a murmer of disbelief. I did see two requests for more details, details that were not provided apparently, on the list, at least. > "tens of thousands of hives crashing" was the subject line that > dominated BEE-L's message boards through much of October & early > November" . Again, I did not count, but, by any measure, this topic hardly seemed to have dominated BEE-L. From memory, I would have been surprised if the subject line hit even 5% of the total in either month, so, I read through the posts again. Although the subject line -- picked out of a post by Bob on another matter, "Re: [BEE-L] Small Hive Beetle" (Oct 24th), and pasted into the subject line by another writer on the same day -- persisted, discussion under that thread actually moved on to formic acid and other topics, and I would guess that the posts that actually were about "tens of thousands of hives crashing" could be counted on both hands with fingers left over. Details were never revealed. Maybe I have deleted some of the posts in my cache? I don't think so, but I can't find the roar, and I'm hoping that someone can point me to the missing posts that dominated BEE-L. Then again, BEE-L has no "message boards", so maybe the post refers to another BEE-L? allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:11:07 -0600 Reply-To: Hroller McKnutt Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Hroller McKnutt Subject: Beekeepers and historical reenactment In-Reply-To: <00d801c52d71$ef6671f0$7ead5ad1@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been out of the beekeeping groove for a couple years because of a move but now I'm trying to get back into it, my other major hobby is reenacting the Middle Ages. If you know of anyone involved in historical reenactment (Specifically the SCA, www.sca.org) could you point them to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca_beekeeping/ please? I don't condone keeping bees in skeps or gums certainly, but it appears TBH's of a sort were period. Thanks! Mike Martin in Warrensburg, MO in the SCA I'm known as Lord Hrothgar the Smith and I'm in the Kingdom of Calontir :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:36:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Meldrum Subject: Honey on bottom board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I am a new beekeeper in the Boston area and just observed something that puzzles me. When I inspected my hive fearing the severe winter had taken it's toll, I found that the hive was still alive (a weak hive, but still going). The interesting part is there was honey on the bottom board, just outside of the mouse guard. I put my finger in it, and smelled it. It was honey all right... a nice light color too. Any ideas why this would happen? Did one of the bees drop a jar of honey while moving it from one frame to another? Several dead bees were stuck to it when the undertakers pushed out the dead bees. The hive is still surrounded with snow from a winter that is never going to end. - Dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:37:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Australian package bees update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, We made up over a hundred nucs from the Australian import today. So will give brief summery and save the best for May ABJ article. I found the bees mostly unremarkable (which is good!). Italian queens with a very light yellow color. I did like the organization of the hive as pollen, honey and brood were all in the proper position. I was very impressed with their calmness on the frames. Solid brood pattern. Of the hives we looked at (around 150) all but one queen was on the frame she should should be on. We did see a little robbing trying to get started in hives we had already worked so we moved our operations to the other end of the holding yard in late afternoon. Typical Italian problem! Hive full of honey and wanting to rob the hive next door! All the hives had stored quite a bit of honey which I was somewhat puzzeled by as I can't ever remember hives returning from almonds with so much stored honey. Brood & pollen yes but not frames of stored honey. I have got some excellent pictures of the Australian bees. many close ups. Are other beekeepers on the list going through hives returning from almonds seeing the same thing? Bell Hill Honey is traveling to western Kansas to off load another batch of returning Australian package bees off a semi and will return tomorrow afternoon. It will be interesting to see what those bees look like. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:49:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: "tens of thousands of hives crashing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, > "tens of thousands of hives crashing" was the subject line that > dominated BEE-L's message boards through much of October & early > November" The above is a direct quote from the January 2005 issue of Bee Culture (pg.22). The sentance starts the excellent article by Dewayne Lumpkin named "White Knuckling it through a winter with varroa" Allen said: Again, I did not count, but, by any measure, this topic hardly seemed to have dominated BEE-L. Apparently Dewayne felt otherwise. Allen said: From memory, I would have been surprised if the subject line hit even 5% of the total in either month, so, I read through the posts again. Sad as I consider the information I posted to be the most important industry information posted on BEE-L in 2004. Allen said: Then again, BEE-L has no "message boards", so maybe the post refers to another BEE-L? The whole world can read BEE-L from the web without posting. Maybe Dewayne considers BEE-L a "message board". Maybe Dewayne is not even a member? Don't know? I do know Dewayne (whom I have never met) had his facts correct in his article and from rereading his article quotes Burt Belliston, Lyle Johnston, Dave Baker, John Baker , Joe Trayner, Eric Mussen & Frank Eischen which are the people he most likely interviewed for the article. The article says Dewayne Lumpkin is a freelance journalist so I would guess Dewayne does not even keep bees. Many authors which write on subjects are not directly involved but only research the subject. Hopefully Dewayne will write other articles for the bee magazines! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:59:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Organization: prive Subject: 1999 the 17 of March MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Members of BEE-L and Beekeepers all over the World. Because of the Change of my mail Adress I could'nt send this Msg a few = days ago. You will find it below . "Please take a Moment of Silence for a great Beekeeper who leaved us in = 1999 on the 17 of March. His Name Andy Nachbauer".=20 Greetings from Flanders (Belgium) Maurice :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 06:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax >> natural depuration. >Interesting word. How does that differ from degradation? Depurate means to "make pure". The problem is that while "de" normally means to *un-do* something, like deconstruct, dethrone, etc. -- it has this *other* meaning, which is *to do thoroughly* as in delimit, delineate, etc. Degrade, of course, uses the first "de" as in: undoing quality. Depurate uses the second, in which something is made thoroughly pure; quite the opposite of degradation! pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:18:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Claire & Paul Desilets Subject: Mass Beekeepers' Assoc Spring Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spring Meeting - Saturday, April 2, 2005. Topsfield, MA The Massachusetts Beekeepers Association will hold our spring meeting on Saturday, April 2, 2005 from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM in Topsfield, MA. Our speakers will be Robin Mountain, of Kentucky State University, speaking on "Queen Rearing" and "Races of Honey Bees in the U.S.," and Dr. Larry Connor, of WicWas Press, speaking on "Managing drones to improve your beekeeping." Lunch reservations must be made by Friday, March 25. Registration starts at 8:30 AM. Please see our website (massbee.org) for directions, speaker bios and registration form. -Andrea Desilets, Treasurer/Newsletter Editor :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Honey on bottom board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20050320202728.00a78b18@mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Meldrum wrote: > I found that the hive was still alive (a weak hive, but still > going). The interesting part is there was honey on the bottom board, just > outside of the mouse guard. Just a guess, but if there are other hives in the area there could be robbing going on. Weak hives do encourage it and the weather has been tropical down there these past few days. If the honey was on the bottom board inside the hive, I would guess fermented honey which does get watery and drop. It is easily shaken out in the spring, which is where we are now. It might not be honey. Could be poop. They are flying and lots of yellow rain on the snow outside my colonies. Or dysentery, but now we are getting gross. This is a question which is difficult to answer without looking into the colony or sitting outside in front of the hive and observing. Nice Perry Mason mystery, though- "The Case of the Tell Tale Drop". Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:19:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Gaddis Subject: roar of disbelief In-Reply-To: <200503210500.j2L503Eh002576@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'm new to BEE-l, so I don't know about any "roar." I have been posting for years on a tractor web site and I know that when I post something controversial, the roar comes through my email, not necessarily in a public forum. The fact remains the US lost many thousands of hives this year and I'm sure the international bee community lost many thousands. One does not have to look far to see that beekeeping is in trouble. I see the shortage of new beekepers as serious as the death of bees. Young people just do not go into beekeeping. Why? Too much work, too many stings, too much management, no interest in honey or other hive products, no fascination with the complexities of bee culture. I'd like to see less concern with government solutions and more private sector involvement, like seed and pesticide companies. livestock producers, produce growers, fiber & forage crop growers. These are sectors with a direct involvement with the success of bees on a large scale. Since most beekeepers are older, they may need to realize a new need for continuing education. Some of the micro-management practices from decades past may not work as well under the new threats to production. The Dept of Agriculture may need to wake up and get away from its common notion that if you have a pest problem, you throw some poison at it. That has failed in animal agriculture, vis-a-vis antibiotic resistance for certain microbes, for example, and is failing in apiculture. IPM and genetic selection for desirable traits will yield long-term improvement vs. the quick-fix associated with Apistan and Coumophos etc. I think we need to concentrate on recruiting younger beekeepers, uniting all beekeepers(yeh, right...)into a coherent political force, and educating the public on the importance of beekeeping to the food cahin and the economy. Maybe then we can start a tidal wave of support for research into solutions for what ails the bees. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: "tens of thousands of hives crashing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Apparently Dewayne felt otherwise. > > > From memory, I would have been surprised if the subject line hit > > even 5% of the total in either month, so, I read through > > the posts again. > Maybe Dewayne considers BEE-L a "message board". Maybe Dewayne > is not even a member? Don't know? 'Feeling' and 'considering' are not good reporting, and I am still looking for the "roar"... or maybe this is it? Looking back, someone really should have questioned more strongly, but, then, everyone was benefitting from the tale. Nobody wanted to question the 'facts'. > > Sad as I consider the information I posted to be the most > > important industry information posted on BEE-L in 2004 Or misinformation. Maybe I should say, misdirection. Granted, it was a very useful story for the industry, and, as with such stories, it has a basis in fact, that makes the conclusions proposed seem credible. Sure, tens of thousands of hives were crashing, but I think that has been true every few years, for the three (plus) decades I have owned bees. Every time, vague numbers have been suggested, a different villain has been found and every time, another self-serving conclusion ihas been reached. Same old, same old. The *real* story this time was the shortage of bees for pollination, and that has been coming for a long time. "Tens of thousands of hives crashing" was not the real cause. IMO, anyhow. In recent years, almond acres and prices have been increasing, while hive numbers and real dollar honey returns have been declining. Pollination fees have been flat. With demand for bees for pollination increasing, and with the low pollination fee offered being better than honey prices, beekeepers managed to fill the demand. However, we have been rapidly approaching the tipping point when one more new almond acre could not attract one more bee hive from somewhere across the USA. Moreover, when a sudden, short spike in honey price occurred, some beekeepers pulled back from pollination and managed their bees for honey. That change may have resulted in a different management style in some cases, and running different hive numbers and configurations in others. It also changed the attitude of many beekeepers to pollination and the kind of money they were paid there. Prices are set at the margin, and when there is a shortage, the bidding begins. Prices for pollination suddenly doubled, and suddenly those locked in at low prices needed an out -- a story, and guess what was handy? What *are* the numbers? What are the facts? We still do not know. Will we ever get to the bottom of this? I doubt it. This industry is in need of reporters who report, not parrot, and editors who read critically and demand facts, not comfortable rumours and myths. In my opinion, anyhow. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: <200503211158.j2LBkK0e010573@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Deputate versus degrade Let's go back to my post about chemicals in hives. Depuration of a chemical or chemicals from the hive refers to the process of making or becoming free of impurities. That's the critical question that we examine in our research. How quickly does a hive become contaminanted and how long does the cleansing take? Depuration occurs because of multiple factors: partitioning of the chemical into other hive components, replacement of old wax with new, dilution, 'excretion' - old bees ingest or adsorb some of the chemical, die, are removed from the hive or never make it back, etc. Degrade implies 'breaks down'. For example, pesticides applied to crops break down into other chemicals or into forms that hopefully are less toxic. Hence, from DDT you get DDE and DDD, etc. Degradation is one aspect of depuration. Degradation may or may not contribute to cleansing of the hive of impurities - all depends on what the final or resultant chemicals might be. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:46:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: josh jaros Subject: Re: roar of disbelief In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Robert Gaddis wrote: "One does not have to look far to see that beekeeping is in trouble. I see the shortage of new beekepers as serious as the death of bees. Young people just do not go into beekeeping. Why? Too much work, too many stings, too much management, no interest in honey or other hive products, no fascination with the complexities of bee culture." Try start up costs, uncertainty of the the markets, and the mites. Josh Jaros --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:45:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Nelson Subject: Re: 1999 the 17 of March It was through Andy's passing that I found this list. His site was my nearly daily cyber connection to the beekeeping world and one day I found it quiet. What a loss. Andy was a true visionary in that he made early use of new technology to connect to and share with the world. Thanks to those who continue to contribute to this cause. Bob Nelson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:37:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Coumaphos in wax In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050321152504.03d97b10@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Bromenshenk mentioned in his recent mail ......."For example, pesticides applied to crops break down into other chemicals or into forms that hopefully are less toxic".... Jerry, was your use of the word "hopefully" give some indication that all is not well with the manner in which some pesticides are investigated before being placed on to market? Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 23:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leigh Hauter Subject: study on gm rape's effect on bee population Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Transgenic crops take another knock Nature.com Published online: 21 March 2005 Jim Giles Shift in weed species hits bees and butterflies. Commercial use of some genetically modified crops could alter the balance of weed species that thrive on British farmland. Such a shift could harm bees and butterflies, warn researchers. Butterfly numbers were cut by up to two-thirds and bee populations by half in fields of transgenic winter oilseed rape (canola), according to the final results of a three-year study commissioned by the UK government. Researchers behind the £6-million (US$11-million) study say that the project's weed-control system is to blame. The crops are engineered to resist a particular herbicide, which hits broad-leafed weeds harder than grassy varieties. Bees and butterflies suffer because they prefer the former type of weed. The scientists add that this would have a knock-on effect on animals higher up the food chain. "If this crop were commercialized we'd be concerned about the implications for birds such as sparrows and bullfinches," says David Gibbons, a conservationist from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and a member of the committee that oversaw the experiment. Crop fans Supporters of transgenic crops stress that most insect species were not affected by the rape's herbicide and say the overall impact on biodiversity is minimal. "As with all weed-management systems, some weed and insect species will be positively affected while others may be negatively affected, but the vast majority are unaffected," says Tony Combes, deputy chairman of the Agricultural Biotechnology Council, a London-based lobbying group. Bayer CropScience, headquartered in Monheim, Germany, already markets the winter oilseed rape used in the trial in the United States and Canada. Although the crop is grown widely in the two countries, Bayer says it has no intention of applying for a licence to sell it in Europe. But Bayer officials point out that the biggest difference in butterfly and bee numbers is seen in July, when the crop is just about to be harvested and there is little green material. "There's nothing in the field at that point for bees and butterflies," says spokesman Julian Little. "You wouldn't get very many there anyway." The results will, however, be felt as a further blow to advocates of transgenic crops. In 2003, two of the three other transgenic varieties covered by the study, spring oilseed rape and beet, were shown to harm biodiversity by reducing overall levels of weeds. Impact factor Release of the results marks the end of what has been the largest ever study into the ecological impact of transgenic crops. More than 150 people worked on the experiment, which involved counting a million weeds and 2 million insects at sites across Britain. The report is published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society. Although none of the crops tested is likely to be licensed in Europe, researchers behind the study say that the data will inform agricultural policy for years to come. They point out that the ecological impacts of previous changes in farming practice, such as increasing herbicide use, were not properly investigated at the start. "Now we have a rational and scientific basis for managing change," says Chris Pollock, director of research at the Institute for Grassland and Environmental Research in Aberystwyth, UK, and chairman of the study committee. "We've demonstrated in enormous detail just how tight the association is between agriculture and the environment." *************************************************************** Biggest Study of GMO Finds Impact on Birds, Bees Mon March 21, 2005 12:20 PM GMT-05:00 By David Cullen LONDON (Reuters) - The world's biggest study to date on the impact of genetically modified (GMO) crops on wildlife found birds and bees are more likely to thrive in fields of natural rapeseed than GMO seed, scientists said. But scientists behind the British study were keen to stress the differences between the two arose not because the crop was genetically engineered but because of the way pesticides were applied. "The study demonstrates the important of the effects of herbicide management on wildlife in fields and adjacent areas," researcher David Bohan said. Green groups, however, were aghast. "These results are yet another major blow to the biotech industry. Growing GM winter oilseed rape would have a negative impact on farmland wildlife," Friends of the Earth campaigner Clare Oxborrow said. The trial was the last in a four-part 5.5 million-pound ($9.5 million) test of controversial technology -- the largest experiment of its kind in the world. Scientists said that when compared with conventional winter-sown rapeseed, GMO herbicide-resistant plants kept the same number of weeds overall, having more grass weeds but fewer broad-leaved weeds. Flowers of broad-leaved weeds provide food for insects, while their seeds are an important food source for other wildlife. Researchers said that while fields planted with the biotech version were found to have fewer butterflies and bees, differences arose not because the crop was genetically-changed but because of the way they were sprayed. In October 2003, the same government trials found that GMO sugar beet spraying was significantly more damaging to the environment than the management of conventional varieties. They also concluded that gene-spliced spring-sown rapeseed may also have a negative impact on wildlife, while GMO feed maize did not. "GMO CROPS ARE BETTER" The biotech lobby insist the crops are safe. "GM crops offer a better, more flexible weed management option for farmers and, as the results today indicate, the difference between the impact of growing GM and non-GM crops on biodiversity is minimal," Tony Combes, deputy chairman of the Agricultural Biotechnology Council, which represents biotech firms like Monsanto and Syngenta . Despite optimism from proponents of the technology, GMO crops seem a long way off in Britain. Last year, the only firm to win approval to grow a GMO crop in Britain -- Germany's Bayer CropScience -- abandoned field testing of GMO crops in Britain. It also withdrew any outstanding applications awaiting government approval to sell biotech seeds. As a result, no new GMO seeds are awaiting approval in Britain, whereas in the mid-1990s more than 50 different engineered seeds were. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::