From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:04:19 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.6 required=2.4 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D7348437 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWN017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0808E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 39348 Lines: 864 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:16:55 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Size of normal beehives? (formerly: 2 queen hives) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lloyd Spear wrote: It is well known that a hive with 30,000 bees will produce as much as double the crop as a hive with 20,000 bees.=A0 Some researchers say it is impossible to produce a hive with more than 40,000 bees, and 30,000 is more 'normal'.=A0 With a two-queen system one can produce a hive with 50,000-60,000 bees! =A0 Reply: Was brought up learning that these numbers above were for 1 box deep nucs, = and normal strong commercial hives for production were 80,000 to 120,000 be= es for getting decent honey crops, so 2-queen hives piled with deep supers = up to 7-8 deep hive to me should be much stronger then what you are saying.= ........ =A0 Could you please give me a reference to read as to why you are using the sm= aller numbers for normal hive parameters? And also explain more as to why y= ou have to use a 2 queen system to make a hive of 60,000 bees that is less = then 80,000 bees that still is below normal strengths of the 1960s for norm= al commercial honey getting? =A0 Dee A. Lusby=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Size of normal beehives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit COLONY SIZE. The number of honey bees in a normal feral colony varies from about 14,000 to 25,000 (Seeley and Morse, 1976). Beekeepers, using a variety of strategies, are able to increase managed populations to approximately 60,000 (Farrar, 1968). -- Farrar, C. L. 1968. Productive management of honey bee colonies. Amer. Bee J. 108:1 ‑ 20. Seeley, T. D. and R. A. Morse. 1976. The nest of the honey bee (Apis mellifera L.). Insectes Sociaux 23:495‑512. FROM: STRESS AND HONEY BEES ERIC H. ERICKSON **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:32:22 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The number of honey bees in a normal feral colony varies from about 14,000 to 25,000 (Seeley and Morse, 1976). Is this at the peak of the season? The average size of the feral colonies I collect in mid-summer is 6 - 10 lbs of bees. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:36:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: 1st Discovery, Varroa Destructor Virus-1 (VDV-1) in N. America Comments: cc: hayesg@doacs.state.fl.us, westerda@doacs.state.fl.us, Kovatch.Charles@epa.gov, kovatch.charles@epamail.epa.gov, brandon_willis@baucus.senate.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have discovered VDV-1 in two N. American bee samples from Fl. This virus is known to occur in several countries in Europe, and it reproduces in both mites and honey bees. What it does to a bee is unknown, but it is in the same genus (Ifla virus) as Sacbrood, Deformed Wing Virus, and Kakugo virus. You can read about it on the US Army ECBC web page _http://www.edgewood.army.mil/_ (http://www.edgewood.army.mil/) , with more detail on the University of Montana web page _http://www.umt.edu_ (http://www.umt.edu) . We will be submitting a paper on how we found this, and on the specifics of the identification - but we wanted to get the word out to APHIS, to beekeepers, and to researchers as soon as we had confirmed the detection of it. We don't know if this virus is benign, pathogenic, or something in between. We do want to be sure that everyone is aware that it is here in N. America so that it can be monitored. Its certainly NOT likely to be a cause of CCD, since it was only in a couple of samples. But, the Army technology allowed us to pick it up at what appears to be an early stage in its introduction. Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:01:45 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? In-Reply-To: <20080829.153222.4641.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Waldemar Is this at the peak of the season?=A0 The average size of the feral colonie= s I collect in mid-summer is 6 - 10 lbs of bees. Reply: Well, Waldemar, may I ask how many bees you figure is in a pound of bees to= day in the feral/swarms gathered? What is averge number of bees in a given = pound? Same for number of brood in a given area layed up......1) worker....= .2)drone? Have these numbers changed too? =A0 Dee A. Lusby p.s.reading and not believing the new numbers being put forth for some reas= on!=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:56:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>The number of honey bees in a normal feral colony varies from about >14,000 to 25,000 (Seeley and Morse, 1976). > >Is this at the peak of the season? The average size of the feral colonies I collect in mid-summer is 6 - 10 lbs of bees. At 2700 bees per pound, that would be nearly the same, right? pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:55:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Re: 1st Discovery, Varroa Destructor Virus-1 (VDV-1) in N. America Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Detailed information on this and other viruses has been made available: Go to: http://bookshop.europa.eu Search for: Virology and the honey bee You should be able to download the (large) pdf from there pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:55:18 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: 1st Discovery, Varroa Destructor Virus-1 (VDV-1) in N. Ame rica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi jerry, this is very interesting..i have a few questions/comments: 1. have you looked at older samples yet to see if this virus was around, but undetected? my impression is that you are looking with much more sensitive/better equipment and methods than has been done previously. how far back have you looked? 2. wrt this virus being either being "benign, pathogenic, or something in between", i wonder. certainly we have learned that some bacteria, yeasts, molds, fungi, etc are beneficial...or even beneficial _and_ pathogenic depending on the circumstances. are viruses always either bad/benign...or are some possibly sometimes actually beneficial? deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:20:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: 2 queen hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for all the comments as they have given me food for thought. This hive is a "side by side" configuration so hopefully the swarming will be lessened a little. It seems bees are less likely to swarm if they "can always look up and see a little daylight".-in other words tall hives.(I quote Walt Wright) We will see as I am experimenting around with it. John Horton **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:44:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: 1st Discovery, Varroa Destructor Virus-1 (VDV-1) in N. Ame rica MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've some samples from the 1980s that we will look at for VDV-1. But, since we only found it in two samples from a year ago and from one beekeeper, I doubt that it been here for very long OR else it doesn't express itself very often. It was first seen in German bee colonies in the 2000s - identified as an unknown particle. The definitive thesis was published by Ongus in 2006. As per different effects from beneficial to pathogenic - your guess is as good as ours. Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:29:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On average, a pound of bees consists of about 4500 to 5000 bees. Smoked bees versus unsmoked give somewhat different results, as does the individual colony. We and others have looked at this - I did a lot of work on this for a legal suit in which the beekeeper had data about toxic chemicals (from industrial pollution) in his bees, the experts for the heavy industry had lethal dose per bee data. We needed to know exactly how many bees made up a sample of wet and of dry bee tissue. FYI, a fresh bee (just captured) weighs about .1 gm. The average weight per bee on a dry weight basis was about 38 mg. Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:14:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jerry writes: On average, a pound of bees consists of about 4500 to 5000 bees ... a fresh bee (just captured) weighs about .1 gm. The average weight per bee on a dry weight basis was about 38 mg. This agrees with my source, for an average. They put the minimum average per bee at 103 mg. They state that 5000 would be based on a bee with an empty honey sac, such as a departing forager. The number I gave was the average maximum weight (168 mg per bee). Bees swarming or being removed from a wall would no doubt fill up on honey and weigh more than the average. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:04:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >The brood nest for each hive consists of two deeps > and two mediums, so each 'side' effectively has a single deep and a > medium, more than enough room for a brood nest. Lloyd, two questions: 1. Why two deeps and two mediums, rather than three deeps? 2. Do the bees put a honey band across the top of the two brood chambers in these tall, skinny brood nests? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: 2 queen hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy asks why two deeps and a medium rather than three deeps, and whether the bees put a narrow band of honey across the top of the brood nest, as they would in a 'normal' setup. Two deeps and a medium, with center boards to separate the hives, provides each with just short of the equivalent of a deep and a medium. Three deeps would provide each with the equivalent of 1.5 deeps. I guess these are about equal and two deeps and a medium were chosen only because the cut pieces were all ready there. But, one would not want 4 deeps, which would provide each with the equivilent of 2 deeps. Commercial or highly skilled beekeepers will often go through their yards in late spring and look at the status of the supers. Those that are almost full will sometimes get a comb honey super on top of the highest extracting super. This is highly successful for a highly skilled beekeeper, but the method will almost always result in only one comb honey super a hive. Those specializing in comb honey want 3-5 comb honey supers a hive, and this requires a severe restriction in the brood nest; thus a maximum of a deep and a medium per hive. (Many use only a deep per hive.) One of the most common errors by hobbyists trying to produce comb honey is to try to produce both comb honey and extracted honey on the same hive. It almost never works (for hobbyists). Yes, in a side-by-side two queen system one will find the same brood nest configuration as in a 'normal' hive. That is, a band of honey on top of the brood nest and down the sides, and pollen stored immediately below and adjacent to that, and then eggs and larvae. The bees don't seem to recognize that their setup is anything other than 'normal'. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:17:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Lloyd & All, . Those specializing in comb honey want > 3-5 comb honey supers a hive, and this requires a severe restriction > in the brood nest; thus a maximum of a deep and a medium per hive. I do not specialize in comb honey but I need to produce 30 or so boxes each season so will give a few thoughts. 1. I found trying to select hives or even which yards to try and produce comb honey in Missouri can be tricky plus all efforts can be troublesome *if* the main honey flow stops for one of several reasons. Which is why timing of placing comb honey supers is important. I *never* place comb honey supers before the main flow has been going for around a week. 2. Needless to say I have many super strong hives and various locations to choose from. 2.a. I never choose only one location and I add a few boxes of regular foundation to strong hives in a few yards to judge the wax drawing. 2B. Once I find the yard (yards) drawing the white comb *and* the hives filling supers I remove the extracting supers and place my comb honey supers on those hives. 2,c many times if the main flow slows (did not happen this year) I have to rotate the filled center combs to the outside to get the box fully drawn. Getting all the comb capped at times is a problem. Some hives seem to refuse to cap comb honey so boxes need moved to a hive which fill finish the job. *if* I did not sell around 30 boxes of comb honey in chunk & as pound chunks retail ( profitable) I would not produce comb honey as I loose a bunch of extracted honey by the process. Honey raw in drums is currently bring 1.75 U.S. ( current price on Midwest honey hot line for 10,000 pound lots) only reached once before to my knowledge Quite a bit of labor involved in comb honey production. Last year wholesale price for comb honey in shallow supers in the Midwest was 1.75 per pound. The price for around 20 plus supers less the weight of the boxes & frames.(approx.8 lbs.) A high price was around $2 a pound. The best method for producing comb honey I found in Dr. C.C. miller's book "Fifty years among the bees" which involves producing comb honey over queenless bees. A system I used for many many years but very labor intensive. The method never failed me but the method I use now is easier. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, > > This agrees with my source, for an average. They put the minimum > average per bee at 103 mg. They state that 5000 would be based on a > bee with an empty honey sac, such as a departing forager. Most package bee producers figure around 3500 bees to the pound as all I know use smoke in the process. For two very good reasons. Bees are being sold by weight and the package producer wants bees gorged with syrup for transportation and bees gorged with honey are easier to handle. Bees gorged with syrup/honey ( as in swarm) can easily survive for several days without syrup *unless the weather is cold and the bees need to generate heat.* . The big truth is most smoked bees and have gorged on honey use little syrup sent along with the bees. In a recent packager arrival from California one could pour around 20 gallons of syrup from the cans into a 55 gallon drum from around 100 packages on arrival. Usually the only empty cans come from a can with holes too large and the syrup has run out. Some always arrive with completely full cans in which the holes too small for the bees and these usually arrive in great shape. Package producers which store filled packages in storage (up to two weeks at rare times and usually in a cold artificial environment) depend on syrup containers for the bees survival. In those cases up to half the syrup will be gone which in my opinion is a giveaway that said package bees have been in the package for a time period. Certainly over 3 days or not smoked when caged. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:05:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry wrote: > On average, a pound of bees consists of about 4500 to 5000 bees Presumably there is some variation between the various races of bee? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 05:43:37 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I ask how many bees you figure is in a pound of bees today in the feral/swarms gathered? What is averge number of bees in a given pound? This is an excellent question and I don't have a precise answer. The typical removal of a healthy colony takes a few hours. All the while, the bees are in earnest tanking up on honey. So a significant portion of the bees' weight is honey, lots of honey. The largest colony I came across this year felt like 12-20 lbs of bees in the two boxes (w/o any comb). [Sorry about the wide range. I should have weighed them.] It was collected about 3.5 weeks ago. I placed them in 2 deeps with a combo of partly drawn frames and foundation. They densely filled both deeps. In my experience, the feral colony will get as large as the nest cavity will permit. If a cavity is large enough, a super large colony will result given a robust queen. If the cavity is on a small side, multiple swarms will be cast. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? In-Reply-To: <357DFAC7396B46579222EA234999B547@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: In a recent package arrival from California one > could pour around 20 gallons of syrup from the cans into a 55 gallon drum > from around 100 packages on arrival. The above is not correct. I spoke with my employee which poured the contents of each can into a drum before replacing the cans in the package and he said the two pallets I am talking about contained a hundred and fifty packages instead of a hundred. He said most cans were full or almost full but a couple. He said he thought at least 15 gallons were in the drum. I asked he combine the packages with the cans as the packages were on two pallets shrink wrapped and the cans were in another place. The cans need not be returned with the packages to the California package producer in order to get the package refund but keeping the can in the package allows us to use the empty package for *blow bees* in the north if we need to buy blow bees. Easier than trying to staple a wood piece over the hole in a remote area. We also made holes in the can top so we can add some syrup if needed for a short transport. I only post the above as the combining was done last week and illustrates the amount of syrup left from a shipment of packages from California to the Kansas City area. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:10:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: watermelons, bees & neonics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.capitalpress.info/main.asp? SectionID=67&SubSectionID=616&ArticleID=44085&TM=54280.73 Beekeepers suspect pesticide in hive deaths Bayer says evidence anecdotal, as watermelon growers agree to curb neonicotinoid use Cecilia Parsons Capital Press Los Banos beekeeper Gene Brandi made a decision last year that cut into his bottom line, but he thinks it may ensure the survival of his bees. He will no longer allow his bees to pollinate watermelon crops - no matter how badly the growers need him. "Hives I've placed in watermelons over the last several years have had low winter survival rates, less than 50 percent, so for me the risk was too high to continue," Brandi said. Brandi suspects his bees were affected by a systemic pesticide melon growers use to kill aphids. He said the bees are picking up minute doses of neonicotinoid pesticides from crops they pollinate, and the pesticide is affecting their nervous systems. It doesn't kill them outright, Brandi said, but it seems to cause them to lose their appetites and become disorientated. The issue of neonicotinoid pesticides has potentially widespread consequences: Bee hives are collapsing at alarming rates and should this pesticide prove to be a factor in that collapse, farmers of all kinds of crops may have to change the way they treat their fields. Neonicotinoid pesticides are manufactured by Bayer CropScience and have been registered for use on a multitude of crops since 1994. They were much welcomed by growers who found they were especially effective against sucking insects such as aphids. They've also been hailed as "softer pesticides," in contrast with contact-killing organo-phosphates. Imidacloprid was the first commercially successful neonicotinoid insecticide. As of 2006, there were 115 active registered products containing imidacloprid, which is registered in California under a number of trade names, including Admire, Gaucho, and Provado. Products include seed coatings, soil applications and foliar sprays. According to Bayer, they work by interfering with the transmission of impulses in the nervous system of insects. Use of imidacloprid in California agriculture is widespread, with grape and lettuce crops using the most at 20,000 to 23,000 pounds annually. Broccoli crops used 6,500 pounds in 2006 and citrus used about 6,000 pounds. It is also used to kill termites. Beth Grafton-Cardwell, integrated pest management specialist and director of the UC Lindcove Research Station said there is great potential for use of imidacloprid in the citrus industry to help eradicate exotic pests such as the Asian citrus psyllid and brown citrus aphid. In citrus, the pesticide is applied through the irrigation water and, if label instructions are followed, bees should not come in contact with it, she said. Glenn Brank, spokesman for the state Department of Pesticide Regulation, said imidacloprid has been studied as a potential hazard to bees for some time. The department is in the process of putting together data from a number of different studies to see if the state needs to changes its regulations. UC honeybee specialist Eric Mussen said there is no doubt that imidacloprid does damage to the nervous systems of bees - and that significant amounts of the pesticide would kill bees on the spot. There are questions about sub-lethal doses of the pesticide over a period of time, he said. Like Brank, Mussen said there's no shortage of studies on the effects of neonicotinoids on honeybees. What it does to them may be different depending on whether they encounter the pesticide in pollen rather than nectar, he said. Also, different plants treated with the pesticide may have different amounts of the chemical in their pollen. "It is extremely difficult to say if it affects bees in the way they say it does. I have not seen where a specific amount causes this (effect) to happen," Mussen said. Beekeeper Dave Mendes, vice president of the American Beekeepers Federation, acknowledges that much of the evidence against neonicotinoids is anecdotal. "We're seeing these losses, but there is no data to back it up," Mendes said. His bees live in Florida, but Mendes brought thousands of hives to California last winter to keep them out of citrus in his home state, where growers use imidacloprid to fight the Asian citrus psyllid. Mendes thinks concentrations of the pesticide in pollen is causing developmental problems in bee broods. He participated in a study last year that found levels of imidacloprid in his hives at 15-17 parts per billion. "What does that mean? I want to know the long-term effects of that in my hives," he said. Mendes said he plans to push for research funding to find some answers. "If you don't know what the cause is (for losing bees), it creates a lot of anxiety. From what we read, this could be a problem, but we have no data." Documents supplied by Bayer say the maximum concentration of the pesticide in pollen and nectar is five parts per billion, far less than what is expected to kill bees. In addition, Bayer reports that long-term exposure doesn't hurt bees because they metabolize the neonicotinoids. "Controlled field studies have demonstrated over and over again that use of neonicotinoid insecticides use per label instructions do not harm bee colonies," Bayer spokesman Greg Coffey said. Coffey also noted that colony collapse disorder is a recent occurrence, whereas neonicotinoid use has been widespread for many years. All this leaves Fresno-area watermelon grower Parry Klassen in a difficult situation. His beekeeper also told him he wouldn't place bees in the field if imidacloprid were used. Klassen obliged, but aphids killed part of his crop. Klassen said other materials aren't as effective against aphids and other sucking insects, such as whiteflies. "It hasn't been proven to be the cause of the bee deaths. They're looking at all kinds of things," Klassen said. "If I can't use that product, I might as well stop growing watermelons." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:30:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Downsizing Body Size among Ferals Comments: To: Waldemar Galka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Have you observed this before? Indeed a tiny space will force a colony to spin many swarms in a season; however, I have also noticed that the bees in tight quarters are also forced to “miniaturize” their size, as well, to make the most of the limited space (which reminds me of the controversial *tiny homo erectus* recently discovered in an Indonesian island). Such self-induced miniaturization, a form of adaptation, I suppose, seems to be not so uncommon, however, the now-extinct smaller (down-sized under poor forage) Wooly Mammoth around Siberia being a good example. A few years ago, I have brought home a “shoe-box” colony from someone’s backyard. The wooden box was small, about two thirds of a deep, and the bees tried to maximize the combs by building them diagonally and crookedly like valleys of cranium inside a skull. Granted they were small feral bees, they were the tiniest bees I’ve seen—so much so that I mistakenly thought I had stumbled into a different species of honey bees, like the old “German stock,” now considered extinct. But they looked, to me, five- banded Italian hybrids, a tad bigger than houseflies. Tiny as they were, they packed venom as powerful as any other, nevertheless. The owner said the bees had been there in his backyard for at least five years. Yoon **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 01:33:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Downsizing Body Size among Ferals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Granted they were small feral bees, they were the tiniest bees I’ve seen—so much so that I mistakenly thought I had stumbled into a different species of honey bees... Kim, did you hive them with their queen on your foundation/comb? If so, did their size change? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************