========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:45:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: Beeswax? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! Hope this isn't contrary to list rules--but I'm looking for beeswax. I'm an artist--an encaustic painter--who uses beeswax as my medium. (Encaustic: dry pigment is mixed into the hot wax and applied to the support w/bristle brushes and painting knives.) Having no luck locating wax here on Cape Cod, thus this post. So if you have any to sell and you're within driving distance I can come get it, or it can be shipped here--I know that it's a stretch to do that. 25, 50 lb. quantities or less. Best wishes, Joseph jaugusta@capecod.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:46:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Adding Hand Holds to Hive Bodies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit you could buy metal handles like those used on footlockers and chests and bolt them on. If you are not handy with wood. RAS ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:40:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Beeswax? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit One company that sells beeswax is Brushy Mountain Bee Farm and the phone number is 1-800-BEESWAX Norm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:31:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Beesweeping/Bee Beehavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 1) My bees were "sweeping" one day, as you put it. I couldn't figure what they were doing until I went get my magnifying glass and I noticed some very small white bugs(not a clue to what they are called) that were trying to get into the hive. In south Louisiana, they usually make their appearance in early summer and they bite. The bees were grabbing them with their "mouths", cutting them in half and moving on to the next one. That's where the sweeping motion comes in. 2) I've been bragging on my bees(Italian) on how calm they are. With tropical storm Earl approaching and the weather turning for the worse, they suddenly turned on me. We have been experiencing good weather for the past few months with high pressure dominating. Now the pressure is lowering and it is starting to rain and the winds are picking up. Next time I check them, I'm bringing the smoker. Just sharing, Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)448-0339 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:19:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Varroa Calculator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have recently obtained a Varroa Calculator from the British Beekeepers Association of which I am a member. The calculator has the approval of the British Ministry of Agriculture and Food (MAFF). The calculator is the result of a considerable amount of research carried out by Dr S Martin of the NBU. I show below the salient equations from the calculator which will hopefully help some of the subscribers who asked about converting the number of mites counted, into an estimate of the mite infestation level in the colony. The calculator goes into far more detail than I could possibly give here. It gives data on the number of days until control is essential for any month and for any infestation level. If anybody wishes to obtain a copy of this calculator (which in action reminds me of the slide rules of old except that it is circular), you could write to Dr S Martin NBU CSL Sand Hutton York Y041 1LZ England or to BBKA NAC Stoneleigh Park Warks CV8 2LZ England SALIENT EQUATIONS FROM THE VARROA CALCULATOR This table converts the daily mites knocked down into an estimate of the total mites in the colony,and is used in conjunction with a varroa floor, eg if you count say 50 mites knocked down in one day in May, you have an estimated 1500 mites in the colony. Month Multiplier Jan 400 Feb 400 Mar 100 Apr 100 May 30 Jun 30 Jul 30 Aug 30 Sep 100 Oct 100 Nov 400 Dec 400 The following equations convert the sealed brood or bee infestation levels into the estimated number of mites in the colony. The first two equations are used in conjunction with brood uncapping. For sealed drone brood: No of drone cells infested divided by the number of drone cells sampled, multiplied by the total number of sealed drone cells in colony, multiplied by 10. For sealed worker brood: No of worker cells infested divided by the number of worker cells sampled, multiplied by the total number of sealed worker cells in colony, multiplied by 1.8. For adult bees in summer: No of bees infested divided by the number of bees sampled multiplied by the total number of bees in colony, multiplied by 2.9. For adult bees in winter: No of bees infested divided by the number of bees sampled, multiplied by the total number of bees in colony. It is possible that the equations may have climate involvement, which subscribers outside these islands may need to consider. The species of bee may also be a factor. I shall be glad of comments on the above. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:58:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: To Treat or Not to Treat... In-Reply-To: <9809010254.AA30789@hermes.fundp.ac.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello George, >After 65 years of beekeeping, treating for Varroa is another treatment, BUT >NOT OPTIONAL NOW. It is kind of like tying your shoes. >Good Luck! > You are a man of experiment. And it's true, if one does not treat: there is risk of died of the colony. But Brother Adam said: "Let the bees tell you (Lass die Biene es dir sagen! Bordesholm, 1989)". When one treats, for Varroa or for the T-mite, one delays the appearance of bees tolerant or resistant to these mites! It seems significant to me, now that we have a bee-keeping with new contingencies, to completely re-examine our way of making and in particular, our way of fighting against these miseries. Some beekeeping centers of this continent (Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Belgium) recommend NOT to treat, but NOT NOTHING TO MAKE. 1/ To carefully count dead Varroa of natural death each day or only a day each week (24 hours). To carefully check the state of the bees and brood: the viral attacks are mortals for the colonies. The bees which will be tolerant in Varroa must be resistant to the viruses! 2/ To TREAT AND REPLACE queens from each colony while (before) it's collapsing. 3/ To multiply the colonies which are resistant and are maintained WITHOUT treating during more than 4 or 5 years. I said: a new way of seeing the bee-keeping! Jean-Marie Owner of the french speaking bees list "Abeilles" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:43:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Pheysey Subject: re. Reading varroa floors Hi Tom, I've had Varroa floors on 2 out of 5 of my hives this year and have been monitoring the natural mite drop every two weeks. Points to note: A) I thought that I had virtually zero Varroa infestation until I got my eye in. Until I had seen a number of mites against the cluttered background of a floor insert, I just wasn't recognising the little devils - then I had a nasty shock! B) The infestation level varies greatly between hives within an apiary. I consistantly get more than twice the mite drop from one hive than from the other larger colony. C) Many of the mites found on the floor insert are still very much alive and readily climb onto the watchmakers screwdriver I use for poking around the debris. The local bee inspector suggests that having a Varroa floor in itself helps as a control measure by stopping mites that drop from climbing back onto a bee walking across the floor. D) There are all sorts of things I seen, in descending amounts...... 1-Wax, both old orange stuff and clear new unworked scales. 2-Large amounts of dropped pollen loads. 3-Hoards of miniscule mites?, far too many to count, bearly visable. 4-Varroa mites in all conditions, live and "kicking", dark brown through to vary pale, some with a few leggs missing, chewed or dented, and sometimes only the curved outer shell. 5-Bits of bee; antennae, legs, wings, heads. 6-Fast moving eight legged pale oval mite?, 1/2 size of Varroa, I have sent a sample of these to the central sicence laboratory at the request of the local bee inspector. I even found one of these with three tiny Varroa mites hanging off its leg joints. 7-Wax month larvae, Oh how the love all that debris! 8-Almost spherical jet black eight legged mite?, slow moving, 1/3 size of Varroa. I'm afraid I don't know much about all this (15 month beekeeper), but I hope this helps. Cheers, Mike Pheysey. mikeph@bri.hp.com Oldbury-on-Severn South Gloucestershire, UK. (100 miles west of London) 51 degrees 39 minutes north 2 degrees 34 minutes west ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:44:01 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: how to stop a swarm going Hi All/Matthew You mention how you lost a newly hived swarm because it absconded. In africa our bees really like to leave for no reason when swarmish. To hold a swarm down the bees need a bit of capped brood surface - I sometimes add a frame if I can spare one, but find that if I leave the swarm in a hive box and feed it stacks of sugar for three days (be sure to give them water as well otherwise they crawl everywhere looking for it) in a very dark room. After this period they will have some mass of eggs going and will have fed the queen up until she is less likely to be able to fly. If you give them pollen (I usually just lay a squate of comb from a hive that I have removed recently on the base) it speeds up the egg laying proccess as well. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:23:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Varroa Traps - Apistan - and resistance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello All. All this recent talk about varroa floors/traps and all got me thinking - a dangerous thing. The recomended method of testing varroa infestations (USA) is to install a varroa trap, and insert Apistan strips. Then 24 hours later, pull out the trap - do the count - and determine if the levels are sufficient for treating. If the levels are low, the strips are pulled out of the hive, otherwise the strips are left in. Here comes my Question... Could the repeated testing for varroa lead to breeding resistant mites??? In the one day that the strips are in the hive, the easily suseptible mites are killed, but the ones that remain are a little tougher and were not killed. These tougher mites then continue to breed until the next test. Given the fact that the overall mite populations are low, and the easily killed mites are removed, this would result in a higher percentage of mites that were not initially affected by the apistan. Over the course of a year or two, you might have a hive full of mites, but a the test will not reveal the true populations because the mites are not killed by the apistan within 24 hours. Any thoughts on this from the bug and chemical people out there!! Rod Billett Lexington, South Carolina USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:32:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beverly E Stanley Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb Subject: Re: Laying Workers MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Thomas: I also had laying workers in two hives this year. Both came as third generation from the same line of queens, and I suspect that inbreeding may be the culprit. I'm ordering queens from as far away as possible to try to vary the gene pool. Anyway, when this happened a seasoned beekeeper was with me and had me cart the whole hive about 100 ft. away. We cleaned the bees off of each frame, and set the hive on newspaper atop a strong hive.(It had its own entrance up there). He said laying workers can't fly and won't walk that far, because if they could get back, they would kill any queen I might try to introduce. It worked. The new hive is now combined, I lost only the bees I needed to loose, and it produced a bumper crop of honey. The same thing happened with a "sister" hive (same line) and I did the same process with great results. I lost a two hives in number, but gained two much stronger hives, so it wasn't a total loss. Bev (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > > Just examined a hive of laying workers > My first observation was that there were wax moth larvae small white wormlike > things in the cells. > On a closer look this turned out to be 2-3 eggs end to end on the cell walls. > This is a hive which no matter what I did would not allow itself to be > requeened nor would it raise it's own . > I tried queen cage introduction, frames of eggs and brood, nuc and newspaper, > all to no avail. > In any case laying workers is a lot more obvious once you have seen it up > close and personal. > When I pull some supers next week the laying worker hive will get broken down > and it's full combs of honey will be given to other hives it's bees will be > given to the four winds. > > Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:27:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Conni Still (Long Island)" Subject: Hive Handles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a reply for Emily. My husband Clifford and I have been keeping bees for 17 years. Since he suffered a stroke 7 years ago he has had difficulty lifting the hives by the small indentations. We went to our local Home Depot and purchased door handles of the type you would put on a screen door or such. We screwed them on just above the indents on the front and back of the hives and it has made a tremendous difference in our ability to manipulate heavy supers. His article on the subject was published in the Bee Line of the Long Island Beekeepers Club and he received the first "Tinkerers Award " for his contribution. As you said it might be too expensive for a commercial beekeeper to do, but for the hobbiest it makes life much easier. We're taking our honey off tomorrow, hoping for a good harvest. Conni Still, Bayport, Long Island ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:40:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Adding Hand Holds to Hive Bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >you could buy metal handles like those used on footlockers and chests and bolt >them on. If you are not handy with wood. These metal handles drop down when not in use (I believe), and this would save space when loading them into a truck. Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:42:00 -0700 Reply-To: GSTYER@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Styer Subject: Lost Queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently had a queenless hive with no eggs or brood. I transfered 2 frames of eggs and brood from another hive and they raised a queen just fine. I checked after a couple of weeks so I know she was there. After a couple more weeks, no queen, eggs or brood could be found. I then checked the hive right next to it and found a new queen in there (the old one was marked) but no evidence of supercedure or swarm cells. Is it possible that the queen that the queenless hive raised returned from her mating flight to the wrong hive and killed the old marked queen? I have introduced 3 more frames of eggs and brood to the still queenless hive. There was no evidence of a laying worker after about 6 - 8 weeks of being queenless. This leaves me to wonder: 1) how long does it take for a hive to develop laying workers and 2) will a hopelessly queenless hive always develop laying workers. Small urban lot in Califormia's central valley. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:36:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Attaching handles Lisa K asked what length and size screws or nails, and how many, should be used to attach handles to hives. Lisa, I will give you the specifics as well as some general rules that will apply to similar situations. Screws and nails should be thought of as clamps. They are nothing more. Almost without exception they should be used with glue (adhesive) in situations where it is important that the materials hold together well. The only real exception is in situations where one needs to be able to take the materials apart again. Today I almost exclusively use screws as the battery operated drills make screws much faster and easier to use. The rule of thumb is that the nail or screw should reach at least > of the way through the last of the materials being joined. If one were attaching a 1 = inch handle to a > inch beehive (total of 2 < inches), and working from the handle in (because that is easiest), I d use nails or screws that were 2 inches long. Screws come in various diameters, and I use size 6 to reduce or eliminate splitting. I also use coated deck screws. Deck screws have a special thread and are coated. Both make them much easier and faster to drive than regular screws, and the coating also prevents rust. The screws, as clamps, do nothing more than hold the two pieces of wood together long enough for the adhesive to cure (harden). Accordingly, two are plenty. Put each into the handle at least 1 from the handle end, to reduce splitting. If, for some reason, you have to go near the end of the handle, drill a starter hole first. Otherwise you might split the wood. Before screwing the two together, put a very light coat of adhesive on both the hive and the handle. I use a brand name TiteBond , but any waterproof adhesive made for use with wood is fine. Ask at your Home Depot or hardware store. Today s adhesives make a bond that is stronger than the original wood! Technically, after a week or so, you could remove the screws and the handle would never come off. However, I d leave the screws in so there is no entry for fungus. Technically, the handles should be attached before the hives are painted. However, yours are painted so just apply the handles as is and I am sure they will attach firmly. Good luck Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:35:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Cost of Varroa treatment Five pounds sterling is around $8.50. Our prices for strips vary considerably between suppliers, but assuming annual use of 8 strips per hive the cost would be $11-$16 a year. Lloyd LloydSpear@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:47:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Beesweeping/Bee Beehavior Buddy Gauthier says that his normally-gentle bees got rough yesterday, and blamed their behavior on lower barometric pressure in the prelude to Storm Earl. Odd. I am also in South Louisiana. I worked all my hives today, to remove Apistan, and was struck by how docile they all were. Even a normally-mean wild swarm that I hived earlier this year. And my barometer also shows falling pressure. Bees are bees. Those who try to explain their behavior, beeware. Walter Weller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:33:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Sr. Monica Ryan" Subject: Bad tempered Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question: (a) What is the best way to handle a bad tempered colony? and (b) How would you re-queen a bad tempered colony with a queen of a gentler nature? I will appreciate all answers. Thank you Catherine Duffy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:51:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: Re: Beesweeping/Bee Beehavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gauthier Buddy J wrote: > > 1) My bees were "sweeping" one day, as you put it. I couldn't figure > what they were doing until I went get my magnifying glass and I noticed some > very small white bugs(not a clue to what they are called) Wonder if they're aphids--small insects that ants keep for their "milk". Best wishes Joseph ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:37:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 30 Aug 1998 to 31 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <904622612.2126149.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <904622612.2126149.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >I counted 15 of the mites on the paper insert, within a twenty four hour >period. If I read it correctly. the varroa calculator gives a total of 1500 mites in the colony. with no control required. However, I would treat when I took the honey off, and unless you are on the heater moors that should be now. I would recommend joining your local association. There are plenty of branches in Lancs or Cumbria. E-mail me at the address below and I will give you contact addresses. -- Tom Speight tom@tomsp8.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:47:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Bad tempered Colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/1/98 4:18:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mr@DROGHEDA.EDUNET.IE writes: > Question: > (a) What is the best way to handle a bad tempered colony? and > (b) How would you re-queen a bad tempered colony with a queen of a > gentler nature? While the bees are foraging- nice sunny day between 10 am and 2pm move the hive away from it's stand. Let the returning foragers protect the location while you look through the boxes 30 feet away or so. A Spray bottle with some sugar water helps also- wet bees don't fly so well. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:10:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: To Treat or Not to Treat... In-Reply-To: <199809011305.GAA04381@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:58 AM 9/1/98 +0200, you wrote: Good Post from Jean-Marie, another side of the coin. >It seems significant to me, now that we have a bee-keeping with new >contingencies, to completely re-examine our way of making and in >particular, our way of fighting against these miseries. I am for that, but you got it all rong. In the olden days here in California and else ware beekeepers did not treat,,,a least for AFB, as there was no treatment. We killed or shook the bees from AFB diseased hives and burned the combs. It seemed to work OK, but required some knowledge of AFB and you had to dig a hole, but in total our AFB rate was kept to 1/2 of 1 percent in good kept bee outfits. And AFB never did infect or effect the feral honey bee population in any measurable way? Them came along a sulfa drug and you could treat for AFB, well in a short time most all treated, only those who liked to dig holes or could not tie their laces did not and continued to burn. I know I was there and my job was to dig holes and burn the hives once or twice a year. In the bee outfits that just treated with drugs the AFB rate in a few years became 1/2 of 1 percent, nothing was gained, but they traded the digging of holes for drugs and young kids like me were without work. I must say here that a few smart beekeepers in the old days did not just treat, but did a combination of burning and treatment and these lucky few are still around today with NO AFB, no holes to did, and no bills for drugs but always vigilant for signs of AFB or any other disease. Today we continue to do the same now with pesticides, who worries about AFB, EFB, or even chalk brood..its mites of one flavor or another and we treat. >To carefully count dead Varroa of natural death each day or only a day each >week (24 hours). To carefully check the state of the bees and brood: the >viral attacks are mortals for the colonies. The bees which will be tolerant >in Varroa must be resistant to the viruses! That's the secret, here in the US those beekeepers who in the past have had great unexplained loss, more then likely from one virus or another, are the same one's who have had great losses from both mites. Today we are in a time of calm, most everyone is treating for mites and loss is small or null, but watch out for the next big reports of unexplained loss which will again come and this time it will be from beekeepers who are treating according to todays recommendations, of course it will be called DR, (drug resistance), not PMS, but I say both of these diseases, the new and the old are the same thing, and results from to many beekeepers with PHd's on the public payroll which gives you DR disease, not to be confused with AID's which happens when you have too many bee cops on the public payroll and you get the Apiary Inspectors Disease. >To TREAT AND REPLACE queens from each colony while (before) it's collapsing. >To multiply the colonies which are resistant and are maintained WITHOUT >treating during more than 4 or 5 years. >I said: a new way of seeing the bee-keeping! I believe you are on the right track, Good Luck! ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:41:44 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Cost of Varroa treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Washington I use the label recommended dosage of one strip per five combs of bees. That requires four strips per two story deep colony in mid August. Cost of strips is $1.45 x 4 = $5.80, plus labor at 15 minutes per colony for strip placement and retrieval at a cost of $25.00 per hour or $6.25, for a total of $12.05 per colony per year. If you can pay yourself less you can cut the cost. If you hire employees at a lower rate you can cut costs. Loyd Spear must be treating twice per year. I wonder if he has included labor costs in his estimate. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:51:27 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Bad tempered colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catherine Duffy asks for ways to requeen a bad tempered colony. I always do it by creating a two queen colony in mid to late April. Give the top queen a chance to begin laying well (minimum of 30 days) or until July 4 (6 weeks before the end of the honey flow). Then I kill the bottom queen and drop her into the hive on a warm day and put the top brood nest and queen down into the lower brood nest. It works every time, to my knowledge. I've tried about every other way that has been discussed but they are less successful. Killing the old queen and tossing her in the apiary and then introducing a new queen in a cage may be from 50 to 80 percent successful, even on a honey flow. If you kill the old queen by crushing her on the new queen cage you can increase acceptance to 80 to 95 percent depending on the temperament of the old colony. A two queen colony has always been 100 percent successful judging by the continued presense of the marked queens. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:53:08 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dave general Subject: Re: Odp: INTRODUCTION Content-Type: text/plain >From owner-bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu Fri Aug 28 04:59:38 1998 >Received: by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 4720 ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:58:59 EDT >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 5808; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:57:50 -0400 >Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:32:35 +0200 >Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > >Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > >From: unman >Subject: Odp: INTRODUCTION >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >I'm Pole. I don't know what means "nuc". Can You introduce it to me? > >Andrzej, Poland > A nuc is a small colony of 3-5 frames with a young queen. It is usually divided from a larger colony either as a swarm-prevention technique or as a means to increase the number of hives one has. By the way, I'm a Filipino from the island of Mindanao. Regards Dave General ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:55:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Hive handles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fold down packing chest type seems like a good idea to me. I've found to my cost in the past that what seemed like a good idea nailing/screwing things onto the brood box in mid season with plenty of supers in place, became a real problem when the supers were removed for winter and the telescopic roof wouldn't go over the additions on the brood box. If you do decide to add bits let me pass on a couple of "nailing" tips given me by an old NE Scotland farmer- -If ther's any risk of the wood splitting, blunten the nail by giving it a sharp tap with the hammer on it's point with the head held against something solid-this makes it cut some of wood fibres as opposed to forcing them apart. -Always drive the nails in at an angle (20 or 30 Degrees) so that they don't pull out so readily-opposite angles time about if there is a row of them. - If your nailing on e.g. a piece of wood which is going to act as a handle,angle the nails upwards so that when the handle is lifted it tends to pull the nail further into the parent wood of the box. Happy honey hunting Alan R ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:49:30 +0100 Reply-To: padraigc@indigo.ie Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Cunningham Subject: Re: Bad tempered Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sr Catherine, What a pleasant surprise to find your email in my internet mail. I hope that you, Sr Paul and Sr Monica are all keeping well and that you had a good honey harvest. I was quite disappointed with mine. The yield wasn't great and a lot of the honey couldn't be extracted because it had granulated. To make matters worse it was granulating very quickly after extraction, even during straining. Now to your two questions. a) The best way to handle a bad tempered colony. Is the colony only bad tempered at this time of year or all year round? It is to be expected that bees will be a little nasty both when they have a good crop of honey collected and even more so after it has been stolen. At this time of year keep manipulations to a minimum and use smoke and gentle handling when working them. b) Dequeen your stock and in 5 to 6 days ensure that there are no queen cells built by destroying them. Two days or so later introduce a mated queen of a gentler strain in a cage. Leave for 2 weeks. Check for brood. Feeding them will ensure that brood rearing is kept up. Hope this is of help. Write to me (or email me if you prefer) and let me know how the operation went. I hope that from now on your bees will be as gentle as lambs. Sincerely, John Cunningham. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:45:04 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: To Treat or Not to Treat... In-Reply-To: <9809012341.AA18485@hermes.fundp.ac.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all ! >>I said: a new way of seeing the bee-keeping! > >I believe you are on the right track, Good Luck! Thanking you Old Drone ;-) By the way, I must say that the idea is not from me, but from Brother Adam. But it must be widespread !! About Br. Adam: it was the last month (3th Aug) the hundredth anniversary of its birth. He was a bee-keeper of which the method reversed all the generally accepted ideas. With some success, apparently (the Buckfast bee, associated with his method !). To read and read again its writings. To try to follow its recommendations. A simple homage page (now building yet) (multilingual : English, French, German, Dutch, Spanish and Portugese) on the URL http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage.html Jean-Marie Van Dyck ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:05:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Francis Subject: Bayvarol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I need to know the cheapest mail order supply of a small quantity of Bayvarol strips in the UK. Please reply directly to francism@rsc.org Thank you in advance. Michael Francis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:49:24 +0930 Reply-To: Frank Farrell Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Farrell Subject: Re: Bad tempered Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Sr. Monica Ryan To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, 2 September 1998 4:45 Subject: Bad tempered Colony >Question: >(a) What is the best way to handle a bad tempered colony? and >(b) How would you re-queen a bad tempered colony with a queen of a >gentler nature? >I will appreciate all answers. Thank you >Catherine Duffy Hello Catherine, Monica and all It often seems to me that full bees are happy bees. I suggest that you install a front entrance (boardman) feeder the day before you plan to work the bees, as this does not require opening the hive. Pick a time of day the bees are foraging well. Place a spare bottom board on the ground in front of the hive, and put your honey supers on this with the lid on top. The foraging bees will continue to work from the supers. You can now work on the brood box where it is or carry it 5 or 10 meters away, to give isolation from the field bees. If you don't have a queen excluder you must search the whole hive. Probably best to take TC's advice and move the whole hive. Have some syrup on hand and if the bees are still too cranky, tip about a pint over the frames and close the lid, give them a little more smoke, then sit down and relax for about 5 mins before reopening the hive. In case you can't find the queen I advise that you read the file from the auto responder about requeening without finding the queen, in advance. Suggest that you buy a caged mated queen from a queenbreeder. Put it in a safe location until you are ready to put the cage into the hive.(ie protected from temp extremes and ants). The caged queen should be introduced ASAP, but can be held for a few days if necessary, in this instance a single drop of water can be placed on the mesh of the cage once or twice per day, depending on temperature. (CAUTION too much water will wet the bees and soften the queen candy and in a cold climate will probably have consequences that I don't know about). On the appointed day, open the hive, as described above, find the old queen and kill her. It's easy when you say it fast. After locating the frame with the old queen on it carry it away from the hive before trying to catch the queen, otherwise she may escape your effort to catch her, and fall back into the hive. Now is the time to bring the new caged queen from her safe location. Ensure that the Queen candy is exposed and place the cage in the brood box. The bees in your hive must have access to the wire mesh of the queen cage and to the queen candy. I usually find a suitable spot between the topbars of the broodbox. If you place the cage on the bottom bar of a frame, face the entrance of the cage toward the rear of the box. Put the hive back together. After a week briefly check that the new Queen has been liberated, if not release her into the brood box and put hive back together with minimum disturbance. Don't manipulate the hive unnecessarily for a couple of weeks, as the bees may blame the new queen for the disturbance and ball her. Many variations are possible: --If your bees are agro (or if they are placid), and you are sure that the cage was correctly placed, you can skip the inspection after one week as the disturbance may cause the bees to ball the new queen. (either way 98% chance of success). In any case check within 3 weeks to ensure that your new queen has been accepted. If not, get another queen and try again or give them a frame of brood from a more docile hive to raise their own . --If this is your only hive you may decide to put the old queen into a nuc box until the new queen has been fully accepted. --Acceptance of a new queen is reduced if the bees have poor conditions. If this is the case you could wait for improved conditions or feed the hive I am sitting at home with a sprained ankle so have been rather long winded, the main point is don't introduce the new caged queen until the old queen is gone from the hive. Happy Beekeeping, Frank Frank Farrell Darwin NT Australia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:58:23 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Varroa Calculator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All George Steffensen raised a query on the daily mites knocked down. >SALIENT EQUATIONS FROM THE VARROA CALCULATOR > >This table converts the daily mites knocked down into an estimate of the total mites in the colony, I should have said daily mites knocked down by the application of Bayvarol or Apistan strips - sorry for the omission. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:55:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: To Treat or Not to Treat... there have been reports in the literature for some time of varroa-tolerant strains/stocks of bees, from europe to africa to s.america...what is uncertain is whether these result from genetics, environmental variables, mite virulence, or all of the above and/or some other factors that may or may not be replicable. such variability would argue for trying to preserve any surviving diversty in local bees and attempting to confirm its persistence, especially in feral or abandoned colonies... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Varroa Traps - Apistan - and resistance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Rod Billett from Lexington, South Carolina USA writes >Could the repeated testing for varroa lead to breeding resistant >mites??? Actually short one time treatments of a miticide might be a softer push toward resistance than most might think! It has a distinct advantage in reducing the duration and thus amount of chemical introduced into the hive. A debate seems to exist between two scenarios for resistance selection. One camp prescribes that low constant pressure from an insecticide slowly selects for resistance in a population. The other maintains that high pressure from an extremely effective insecticide (>99% mortality) quickly selects those resistant individuals who reestablish a "new" resistant population (live to reproduce or die). The first scenario gently ushers in resistance the second forces the issue quickly. Most likely the answer is very complex. It may involve a bit of both but surely selection for resistance includes many variables like the mites "potential" to develop resistance, dose, duration, weather, population dynamics, distribution of mites in a hive, apiary location, drifting--gets very messy to separate out. That being said, Fluvalinate is a contact insecticide, as such it will only kill mites that come into direct contact with the chemical. This may include the mite that boards a bee that had passed the strip, direct contact with the strip, or contact with comb that in contaminated with fluvalinate from bees tracking over the strip while moving through the hive. Mites on adult bees or mites moving within close proximity of the brood area are exposed when they contact the miticide during treatment. While mites in capped cells, mites missing contact in the hive, or mites on bees outside the colony escape treatment. This latter population can be a large number especially during short treatment intervals. This is probably too simple of a description but may give an impression of how treatment affects the colony and mite population. The 42 day treatment would provide a situation where of an efficient chemical (>98%) would leave only resistant individuals. By dosing twice a year the "selection pressure" is for resistance from the surviving population. However, in between mites come and go through drift, management activities, moving colonies, etc. Reuse of Fluvalinate over time along with reuse of wax in frames (I have frames from 1990 in some hives), allow for slow increase in concentrations in the comb. This process is assisted by the chemicals oil solubility. It is more readily absorbed by the wax than by water, thus concentrations can slowly build up in the wax. Admittedly, the levels may be extremely low but it is not known what constant contact with low levels may do over time. Now mind you there are bee operations that treat nearly constantly, sometimes with multiple chemicals (legal and illegal) which may expedite resistance. The real moral dilemma exist, especially for the commercial operator whose livelihood is dependant on bee survival. Use something that is known to work or await the slow moving process of chemical development and approval? IT is not my place or intention to place a judgment here. We as an industry need several consumer safe chemicals that act on different metabolic foci. Compounds which are safe on paper (safe as tested by environmental agencies and accepted by environmental activists)and chemicals which kill mites using entirely different modes of action. The industry could then shift from one to the another as resistance appears constantly pressuring the resistant population off base. This would allow for chemical rotation as a tool to provide protection. This would be another tool to be used in conjunction with strains bred for mite tolerance or resistance. ____________________ However, all generalizations are false --------------------- Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist/Net Administrator FSNL USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:58:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Parker Subject: Re: Varroa Calculator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tom Barrett wrote "I should have said daily mites knocked down by the application of Bayvarol or Apistan strips - sorry for the omission." Sorry Tom, I think you have made a mistake. The varroa calculator developed by Dr S Martin estimates the total number of mites in the colony based on the NATURAL mite fall, NOT a mite fall precipitated by the introduction of Bayvarol or Apistan strips. There is a natural mortality of the varroa mite in the colony and it is these numbers which are monitored regularly. In the booklet "Varroa jacobsoni monitoring and forecasting mite populations within honey bee colonies in Britain" published by the Ministry of Agriculture ... (MAFF), it recommends that the mite fall is measured over a period - in summer this should be 2 weeks and in winter a longer period of 1 month is advisable. To obtain the daily mite drop, divide the number of fallen mites by the number of days on which mites were collected. The booklet does say that this method is unreliable when the brood nest is rapidly fluctuating in size (e.g. swarming), small (less than 5,000 brood cells) or collapsing. For those who have attempted to count varroa mites in the floor litter, the following practical tip may be useful. If you scrape the total floor litter (collected below the varroa screen / floor) into a glass or plastic receptacle and then pour methylated spirits onto it, the varroa mites (and any other bee parts made of chitin) float to the surface. All of the other debris, such as pollen, wax, etc. remains at the bottom i.e. doesn't float. This method is very much less time consuming that fishing through all the debris! Apologies to our bee friends outside the UK, but I am not sure whether methylated spirits is a description you will be familiar with. Perhaps someone else can help with the name of an equivalent product. Bill Parker Hobbyist Beekeeper Buckingham, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:40:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Varroa Traps - Apistan - and resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Could the repeated testing for varroa lead to breeding resistant >mites??? I do wonder about the scheduled introduction of a treatment based on time alone. After all a doctor would not sit you down at your anual exam and tell you that they wanted you to take antibiotics twice a year "just in case". In other posts the subject of pressure for the mite to gain resistance was covered rather well. Now I wonder about the pressure the bee needs to feel in order to move to resistance to the mite? And finaly, since the queen carries the DNA of many drones with which to produce eggs could part of the problem of a hive breaking down be related to her starting to produce inferior offspring as she moves from the genetic material of one drones line to the next? For example a new batch of workers emerge that do not groom as well as their older half sisters. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:52:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: Beeswax? No problem! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks a bunch to everyone who responded to my call for beeswax--I'm arranging to get some this week from some great folks on the list. Remember though, I'm not going anywhere and I'm not going to stop needing beeswax in my work, so whenever you have some available, drop me an email, and as long as my bank account shows a credit, I'll buy it! By the way, the color of the wax doesn't really concern me. Even if it's deep brown it's fine--it's a very thin color, like a weak dye, and the pigments I use are quite deep and strong--never have a problem getting the colors I'm after. Once again, Thanx! Joseph jaugusta@capecod.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:53:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: honey above the inner cover Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Will the bees uncap and remove a super of partially filled frames placed above the inner cover? If they just remove the uncapped potions that would be fine as well. And in good warm 75-85 degree weather about how long will it take them to move it down? I just want to add some weight to a few light hives with half filled frames and then remove them so they do not get exposed to meds and apistan. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:29:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: honey above the inner cover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom in CT wrote: Will the bees uncap and remove a super of partially filled frames placed above the inner cover? ******************** Not in my experience. The bees are more likely to fill the frames with goldenrod and aster nectar and then continue and build comb in the empty space in the super! Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:14:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: honey above the inner cover Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom: The quick answer is YES. It would be better to put a completely empty super on the inner cover, and then put the super of partially filled frames on top of that empty super. The bees will rob out the uncapped honey perhaps in 24 hours. If you break the cappings with a capping scratcher, they will rob out EVERYTHING. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:30:36 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: honey above the inner cover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Will the bees uncap and remove a super of partially filled frames placed > above the inner cover? Scratching it a bit with your hive tool will increase the chances of having it taken down considerably, especially as the season moves closer toward winter. *Hopefully* and *usually* the bees will move it to pack around their brood nest area. But "Bees do nothing invariably"... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:41:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Chalkbrood question Comments: To: mpalmer@together.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Michael and All: >I've requeened lots of chalky colonies. >Sometimes it works, but not very often. That is my experience as well. I think that if you wait until the situation is quite severe that the break in brood rearing is not matched by the worker population which is also decreasing. I think it may be better just to unite the colony with a better one. I have also begun to think that broodcombs with a lot of chalkbrood (especially with the black spore laden mummies) are best destroyed or taken back to the rib and disinfected if they are plastic. This year I went from 200 to 400 colonies. I had the least chalkbrood I have had in years due to a combination of putting honey combs in new brood supers and one of the warmest springs I can recall. The combination of rapid spring buildup and cold nights seems to trigger it. But I agree that breeding hygienic bees is the answer. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:18:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Beekeeping Philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all A little philosophy! I came across the following from 'Contemporary Queen Rearing' by Harry H Laidlaw Jr, which I thought worth sharing with the members of the list. When we consider the heritage left us by those who have gone before, we gladly agree with Sir Isaac Newton that 'If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants,' and with Henry Malcolm Fraser (1931) that 'In short, these pages show how, in almost every respect, the modern beekeeper is the child and descendant of the old.' Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:24:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: honey above the inner cover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put my extracted and partially capped frames above the inner cover for the bees to take down the honey. But I also leave them on until after the fall flow of aster and goldenrod. So the bees first take down the honey then put any excess above the inner cover in the supers. I usually get a super or two od fall honey. So the answer is yes, they will take the honey down, but, if the lower boxes are full, they will put honey abover the inner cover too. Based on what you said, they should clean them out nicely. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:16:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Rookie can't find a queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The list seemed a little slow this morning so I thought I would take advantage and post a quick question to everyone. Based on advice from wise members on Bee-L I have decided to requeen my both of my two year old hives, however with exception of the day I installed my packages I have never seen the queens. Not that I haven't looked. I have looked many times. I always see signs of the queen, but never the queen. I have read that you can put a new queen into the hive in her cage and in a day of two the workers will free her. When she and the old queen meet there is a fight to the death, and the young Strong queen will be the victor. This method seems to be a bit of a gamble. How do you know the workers will free and accept her? And if they do, how sure can you be that she will win this fight? I'm wondering if there are any better methods of introducing a new queen without first killing the old one? Thanks for any replies Rett Thorpe Salt Lake City, Utah 2nd year, two hives Following the advice of wise members on the list I have decided to requeen this week, but I have a slight problem or ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:05:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Rookie can't find a queen In-Reply-To: <199809031528.IAA27066@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:16 -0600 9/3/98, Rett Thorpe wrote: >The list seemed a little slow this morning so I thought I would take >advantage and post a quick question to everyone. > >Based on advice from wise members on Bee-L I have decided to requeen my >both of my two year old hives, however with exception of the day I >installed my packages I have never seen the queens. Not that I haven't >looked. I have looked many times. I always see signs of the queen, but >never the queen. I've had times when I could not find the queen in a small hive in spite of going through all the frames twice. She was there because I saw her a few days before and a few days after. Usually the queen is really easy to spot. Just keep looking. She is much bigger than the worker bees and has a waspish looking abdomen. Don't confuse her with a drone, which is usually darker and has a round cylindrical abdomen. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: davidscott@mtgroup.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Scott Subject: When do I order? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good folks, I'm anxious to start my first hive, but I'm going about this slow. I've spent the better part of the summer reading, studying, lurking on the list, trying to learn as much as I can about beekeeping. I'm going to spend the winter gathering hive materials, and I want to put my first hives out next spring. My question is, when do you recommend placing orders for package bees, and from whom? I plan on ordering Italians and I'm in Memphis, TN if that makes a difference. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, David Scott davidscott@mtgroup.com http://www.access-developer.com http://www.mtgroup.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:18:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 Sep 1998 to 2 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey all, I'm still looking for a beekeeper near Atlanta, GA. Surely there must be one out there. Anybody know of someone I can contact. Thank you. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy, VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:41:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Georgia beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Faith..try these folks: GEORGIA Cherokee Bkprs. Club Canton email-terryjeannie@juno.com Tara Bkprs. Assoc. Riverdale 770-996-5283 Chattahoochee Bkprs. Assoc. Columbus 706-324-2285 S.E.Georgia Bkprs. Nahunta 912-462-5068 Eastern Piedmont Assoc. Bishop 706-769-6406 N.W.Georgia Bkprs. LaFayette 706-638-5848 Coastal Empire Bkprs. Assoc. Savannah 912-927-7965 Metro Atlanta Bkprs. Assoc. Marietta 770-926-1407 Georgia Bkprs. Assoc. Forest Park 404-366-6404 Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:31:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Hive Handles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bees don't always balance their hives well and put all the weight at one end. If you pick it up with the heavy end towards you its not too bad but if not it can be awkward. Central handles force you to lean forward when lifting putting extra strain on the spine. Try offsetting the grips so that on your weak side the handle is about one third of the way along the hive body and on your strong side, two thirds. I find this much more comfortable than equidistant grips and you may do so too. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:31:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/09/98 04:31:10 GMT, Catherine Duffy wrote: << 14. Bad tempered Colony : how to handle; how to requeen >> I agree with what Tom Cornick says about working a bad tempered hive. However, if I may make a rashly sexist assumption that being of the female persuasion you may not relish the prospect of carrying a heavy hive 30 yards there are other things you can do. Give a light feed the evening before working them. Smoke doesn't work as effectively if there are no open stores for the bees to engorge. Use plenty of smoke and a water spray. Use cover cloths so only one comb is exposed at a time. Alternatively don't use cover cloths but expose the whole brood nest and go away for half an hour. Exposure to the light has a calming efect on some strains - they are all different. You don't often have to examine every frame. Before opening a hive ask yourself "Why am I here? What MUST I do?" Then do it calmly and quickly and go away. With the right reading and some experience you can get a reasonable idea what's happening inside a hive from what's happening outside. To requeen the bad tempered colony first obtain, locally if at all possible, a queen known to produce good tempered workers. Install her in a nucleus placed next to the bad tempered one. If necessary the nuc can be made up from the other one as long as enough extra bees are shaken in to compensate for those which fly straight home. Wait until the new queen has settled down and is laying well. Swap the positions of the two hives on a sunny day. All the flying bees and those which have orientated to the old position will join the nuc. The new queen may well have a calming influence at once probably due to greater queen substance pheromones in a younger queen. In a day or two go through the old hive which will be depleted in numbers and you should easily find and kill the queen. Shake off the bees and add the brood combs to the nuc. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:31:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/09/98 04:31:10 GMT, you write: << 11. Lost Queen >> She may as you surmise have gone in the wrong hive but from what you wrote it appears that you presented the colony with young brood after the queen had disappeared and they did not raise new queen cells. This strongly suggests that she is still in residence but has not yet come into lay. The other colony may have requeened itself without telling you. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wallace C O'Steen Subject: Moving Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm planning on moving my hives to a new yard less than one mile away from their present location. I would like to keep from having to move them twice if that's possible. I have read somewhere that you can make a short move if at the new location you leaned a wide board against the front of the hive. When the bees would exit the hive they would be faced with this obstruction which normally was not in their flight path. This, supposedly, would force the bees to orient themselves to their new location. Has anyone tried this? Will it work? Wally O'Steen Huntsville, Alabama _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:22:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Methylated spirits (from Ruary Rudd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Ruary Rudd" To: "BEE-List messages" Subject: Methylated spirits Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:37:36 +0100 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Parker Date: 02 September 1998 16:58 Subject: Re: Varroa Calculator >... >Apologies to our bee friends outside the UK, but I am not sure whether >methylated spirits is a description you will be familiar with. Perhaps >someone else can help with the name of an equivalent product. > >Bill Parker Denatured alcohol is the same as methylated spirits, a 50-50 dilution with water still has the mites floating and will save costs, at the expense of having slightly more debris float. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:10:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Pondering a few things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It is becomming quite in vogue to overwinter small nucleus hives atop strong, healthy established hives. I have followed the articles in ABJ written by Kirk Webster and last year had mixed success wintering 4-deep-frame nucs, two per brood chamber. The nucs were separated by a specially designed feeder which split the deep brood chamber into two distinct and separate sections. Now, I have seen nothing in any of my text books discussing this method. The first time I heard mention of overwintering small nucs was when I heard Kirk speak at a summer meeting of the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association. Up to that point I had always strived to have big hives with plenty of winter stores (at least 70 lbs in my climate) and large populations of health bees. I was somewhat skeptical that small nucleus hives would even be able to make it through the winter. However, many beekeepers are advocating fall nucs to have ready for the following spring. Most notably on this list has been David Eyre. As I already stated, last year I had mixed success with this strategy attempting to overwinter four nucs, succeeding with two. I have already made preparations to try again - signed up for more classes at the school of hard knocks. I have set up ten nucs as described above (4-frame nucs, two per brood box separated by the feeder) for this year's attempt. What I am pondering follows. I currently have a number of small hives which were in comb honey production this summer. Some of these hives are single medium brood chamber hives, some deep. All are quite strong after harvesting the Ross Round comb section supers. In years past I would combine these small hives with other hives to consolidate the bees for overwintering, usually on Labor Day weekend (this weekend). However, I am wondering if these single bodied hives might successfully overwinter atop established hives akin to the manner in which some beekeepers are overwintering nucs. Any thoughts? Aaron Morris - thinking ahead to next spring! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:20:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FGMO Updates? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Any updates from those who experimented with food grade mineral oil this season? Hoping for updates from folks who did controlled experiments rather than testimony to the effect that "I used FGMO and have no mites!". I'm more interested if anyone had control hives (no treatment) which were compared with FGMO treated hives. Sincerely, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:28:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Pondering a few things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, Absolutely! Feed the hell out of them! I run 41 2q colonies, feed them from one feeder on top, then separate with a divider board, and winter them with an upper entrance, and 1-2" of foam on top. Charles Andros My address: Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:31:04 +0000 Reply-To: S.R.PEARCE@dundee.ac.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Organization: Dundee Biochemistry Subject: Re: Moving Hives Hi Wally, (and y'all) On moving hives short distances. I needed to move my hives from my garden to a wood which is about 50 yards from my house (it was either that or divorce!). I was going to move them away 6 miles, then bring them back, but I read in an old book that if you moved them, and then restricted the entrance by putting a plank accross it, the bees would be stalled on their way out, would realise they were in a differrent place and would then re-learn the orientation. The wood was in full leaf to I thought that the bees would all not recognise their new location on leaving the hive, but the real test is wether they learn on their way back. I moved two out of four hives on the 1st night, next day there was activity on the moved ones, and a week later, bees were flying in and out of the hives in the wood, but maybe less than before. I then moved the other two hives. The following day, and for the following week, there were hundreds of bees hanging around anything that looked like a hive (anything square) in the garden. I think bees were getting lost up to a week after, and it took a lot of cold dead bees before they all got sorted. I felt terrible about this, even though the proportion of the total number of bees was veryfew. I read somewhere else recently that a few days confinement in the hive helps too, I didn't try this. Also I would leave a weak colony that you want to make stronger, in that way the stragglers can drift into it. You then would only have one hive to move a distance away and back (this will only work for a few hives though) Hope this helps Steve Kilspindie Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 05:41:38 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: divider board w/2-queen hives Comments: To: Charles Frederic Andros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Charles & all, I'm over-wintering my first hive with 2-queens (combined two of my weaker hives with a queen exluder). I'm trying to understand the principle of dividing the hives, but perhaps the simplicity escapes me. Should I simply re-divide the colony using a 3/4" top-board between the hives, estimating 1/2 the bees are in each side of the board? This board should have a notched top entrance for both the upper hive and an emergency escape (airflow) for the lower 1/2 (assume on opposite sides)? I understand I don't want the bees moving from one queen to another, as one will be left behind to freeze, so the queen excluder has to go until Spring. Confused a bit on the details, Matthew in Colorado Charles Frederic Andros wrote: > Aaron, > I run 41 2q colonies, feed them from one feeder on top, then > separate > with a divider board, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:25:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Moving bees Wallace asks about moving bees a short distance. Wallace, the reason for all the advice concerning moving bees is that field bees will fly back to their old site and be lost to the hive. In the spring or early summer that can be disastrous. Now is a different story. If your bees have plenty of food for your short winter, just go ahead and move them. You will lose the field bees, but so what ? Your hives will not miss them and may even winter better without them. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:04:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: new queen to queenright colony Rett wonders how to re-queen without finding and killing the old queen. The method I I've always used when I didn't t want to find the old queen is to introduce the new queen into a nuc of 3-4 frames. Set up the nuc the day before you put the queen in and then you can free her immediately (the field queens will have flown back to their hive). No sooner than 3 weeks later, put the frames from the nuc into the old hive, taking out an equal number of frames. When I have done this, the new queen has always been the survivor and the bees have not fought, probably because there are so many being introduced at one time and robbery is not on the minds of any of the bees. If you don t have extra frames, you can t do this When all else fails and you need to find a queen, shake every frame onto an excluder between two empty supers or hives. The worker bees will fall through the excluder, or walk off, as fast as you shake them. Eventually you will see the queen, as she can t get through the excluder. She will either be trying to get through or will be walking off. I agree with Rett that it is risky to try to introduce a new queen to a queenright colony. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:37:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Nucs "on top" Aaron, as you know we share the same climate and last winter I over-wintered 40 five frame nucs in split deep boxes atop regular hives. I had no losses, which is unusual. I usually have about 10%. For the bottom of the nucs I use 3/8 plywood nailed on. I do not put them atop the regular hives until late October as I want the combs full of goldenrod/aster honey. In my opinion, your comb honey hives would over-winter extremely well atop normal hives, provided they have at least five full frames of sealed honey or sugar water. I think these hives will do so well they will want to swarm first thing in 1999! I have found it is best to put an auger hole above the hand hold of the upper hive body if nucs are on top. With no inner cover or way for any of the moisture to escape, these hives can get into trouble. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:47:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Timothy Rich Subject: Splitting hives MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I just found this list. Here's a little about our bees. We currently = have one hive of Midnite bees, which we purchased this year(March) and = put them in short hive bodies(6"). We live in the mountains of North = Carolina. The hive seems healthy to me, but I am a new bee keeper. I = would like to divide the hive now so that I will have two hives this = next year. Is this a good time? What is the best way to tell? I have = a location about 1 mile away that I can move the split hive to. =20 Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:46:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Moving Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have read somewhere that you can make a short >move if at the new location you leaned a wide board >against the front of the hive. When the bees would exit >the hive they would be faced with this obstruction which >normally was not in their flight path. This, supposedly, >would force the bees to orient themselves to their >new location. A slightly different idea. We use grass, brush etc. anything to slow the exit of the bees and make them stop and take note of their new surroundings. It does slow down the drift back to the old hive site. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Bad tempered Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Getting a bit behind with my mail due to a computer problem. Would like give Catherine Duffy's bad tempered hive an answer. We have been trying a couple of new ideas (to us), both of which work very well. "Tobacco smoke" calms even the angrest of hives even on those really bad days. Remember we are queen breeders and have to handle the bees in bad weather, even rain! We roll a small handfull into the corrugated cardboard we use as smoker fuel. Makes the biggest cigar imaginable. Light from the bottom, and use sparingly. The second thing we've tried is "Fabi Spray" comes in an aerosol can and as the ad says, 'A little dab will do yer". A brief one second spray across the top bars, replace the inner cover for a few moments and the roughest bees calm down. Slightly expensive, but a large can will 'do' a lot of hives. We sell both these items, for further info a personal e-mail will get you an answer. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** >(a) What is the best way to handle a bad tempered colony? and >Catherine Duffy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Pondering a few things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >be able to make it through the winter. However, many beekeepers are >advocating fall nucs to have ready for the following spring. Most notably >on this list has been David Eyre. >What I am pondering follows. I currently have a number of small hives >which were in comb honey production this summer. Some of these hives >are single medium brood chamber hives, some deep. All are quite strong >after harvesting the Ross Round comb section supers. In years past I would >combine these small hives with other hives to consolidate the bees for The only comment I would like to add. I believe it is imperative in colder areas to give the bees 'moving up' space and as much stores as possible. What I mean by moving up space is 4 on 4, or 5 on 5, frames. We start them in 5 frame nucs, then about now we add 5 frames of sealed honey on top, still keeping two nucs in one box. Seperate of course. Then in a couple of weeks we feed again to fill them right up. We wait till the first killing frost to make sure the queen quits laying ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:09:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Laying Workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I also had laying workers in two hives this year. Both came as third >generation from the same line of queens, and I suspect that inbreeding >may be the culprit. I'm ordering queens from as far away as possible to >try to vary the gene pool. Anyway, when this happened a seasoned I have a real problem with correcting people, but 'inbreeding' has little of nothing to do with your problem. Laying workers are caused, if you wish, by the bee keeper. The hive goes queenless for whatever reason, then ulitmately laying workers are the outcome. If we keep a track of the queen state of a hive, and requeen as soon as the queen is lost, then the hive stays productive. Good in theory, but hard in practice. I know I had a hive go laying worker, and this morning I found a hive with only a few workers and what seemed like millions of drones. Good gene pool so I wasn't too disgusted with myself !!! ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:14:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carl Fuller Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am new, but was advised to move my two hives at night, which I did. Just loaded them up in the back of the truck, closed the tailgate and top...... unloaded them when I got home.... They were all still hanging on the outside, and not a bee in the truck... Next morning they did fine the first time. The second move, they were acting really "busy" the next morning and through the day.... Lots of activity with bees hovering all around the hive. Don't know what this was all about.... The first hive did not do that at all, they acted what I would call normal....... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:27:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Splitting hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/98 5:52:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trich@InfoAve.Net writes: > I just found this list. Here's a little about our bees. We currently = > have one hive of Midnite bees, which we purchased this year(March) and = > put them in short hive bodies(6"). We live in the mountains of North = > Carolina. The hive seems healthy to me, but I am a new bee keeper. I = > would like to divide the hive now so that I will have two hives this = > next year. Is this a good time? What is the best way to tell? I have = > a location about 1 mile away that I can move the split hive to. =20 I wouldn't hesitate to split hives here in the low country of South Carolina, but I have a lot of experience, plenty of syrup, and good fall pollen sources. It would definitely be more risky in the mountains this late in the season. If you are willing to invest plenty of syrup to get them raising lots of young bees very soon, you might come out very well. I'd suggest making one weaker (three frames of brood) and place it on a screen over the stronger, with the entrance in the opposite direction. The weak one gets heat from the stronger, and may pick up a little drift as well. I've wintered quite a few nucs over stronger hives, and they usually come on very strong and fast in the spring, without any urge to swarm, due to the young queens. Don't let them raise a queen this late; there isn't time to get the population built back up. Give them a mated queen. All said, I still wonder, especially if you are in the northern part of the state, or at higher elevation, where winter will be more severe, if it wouldn't be wiser to wait until spring. You can add extra brood boxes in March and feed them heavily, until the boxes are full of brood, then easily split them. You might have difficulty getting early queens, but you can raise them yourself, or just let the bees raise them, much easier in the spring. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:33:10 -0700 Reply-To: beeman@NOSPAMkingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Splitting hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Timothy Rich wrote: > > Hello! > > I just found this list. Here's a little about our bees. We currently = > have one hive of Midnite bees, which we purchased this year(March) and = > put them in short hive bodies(6"). We live in the mountains of North = > Carolina. The hive seems healthy to me, but I am a new bee keeper. I = > would like to divide the hive now so that I will have two hives this = > next year. Is this a good time? What is the best way to tell? I have = > a location about 1 mile away that I can move the split hive to. =20 > > Thanks! No this is not a good time. Wait until spring then split it. You can then let them make their own queen or order one and have her ready to introduce. With only one hive I would order a new queen. Kent Stienburg -- Remove NOSPAM to reply. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:49:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene Will the use of PDB to store frames containing honey taint the honey? I have some super frames that are partially filled with nectar and honey and also some brood chamber frames of honey. The partially filled supers have been on a hive over the inner cover and an empty super for several weeks but the bees have not cleaned them out. I need to medicate the hive so I am wondering if I can store them with my empty supers, protected by PDB, and put them back on the hives in the spring. Rod ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:50:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: propolized menthol packs This is my first summer as a beekeeper. I put menthol packs in my hives several weeks ago. During recent inspections I have noticed that the bees have been working diligently to isolate the packs from the rest of the hive. They have put huge amounts of propolis between the frames underneath the packs and have also propolized between the edges of the packs and the inner cover. It seems that they will eventually totally isolate the packs from the hive. Is this typical? Is it necessary to go in to each hive periodically and clean out the propolis so the vapors permeate the hive? Rod ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:42:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Matthew: divider board w/2-queen hives Comments: cc: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MATTHEW, First of all, it is best to unite a strong or medium hive with a weak one. The newer or better queen should be on top in one deep. I tried to winte= r with excluders and ended up with one colony up top, lower queens abandone= d. This is due to heat rising and making the upper unit more smelling of pheromones, so you have a drifting to the top with every winter flight. I use 7/8" augur holes in all supers. With three deeps, you can close the lower hole, and leave the upper 2 open. With 2, both are open. Bottom entrance is reduced to 2x.25" with a wooden cleat. All entrances are on = the south or SE side. You can use a regular inner cover screened one side. Better is an inner cover with a bee space on both sides to allow for feed= ing pollen supplements every 7-10 days when it's above 35=B0. They eat up to= 36 oz. of patty per week! This way you can make honey on early flows, as we= ll as late ones, and lots of divisions, provided you keep 2 queens all summe= r. Mostly, supers are filled between the units, but you may need 3 excluders= , to keep the queens out of the supers if used above the top brood chamber. If you are rugged you can keep adding supers between the units, but I lik= e to put the heavy ones on top, for removal, and so I don=92t have to lift = the 3rd deep so high. A deep or two shallows will hold them for a week usual= ly, except on a very heavy flow, like we=92re having now on Japanese or Mexic= an bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum.) I=92ve recorded 15 and 16 pound gains in = 24 hours. It=92s amazing how they can gain a half pound in 2 minutes around= 5 PM! Charley ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:14:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: LloydSpear: Nucs "on top" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, I use auger holes under the handhold of all supers so I don't pinch too many bees! Charles Andros My address: Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:35:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/98 9:51:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rrupert@mail.orion.org writes: > The partially filled supers have > been on a hive over the inner cover and an empty super for several weeks > but the bees have not cleaned them out. I need to medicate the hive so I > am wondering if I can store them with my empty supers, protected by PDB, > and put them back on the hives in the spring. Why do you need PDB anyway? If you store them in unheated storage, the wax moth activity will be nearly zero, unless you bring in a badly infested super with plenty of webbing already in place to insulate the wax moth larvae. Wax moths are only a problem when comb is stored in the warm season, or in heated storage areas. Now mice are a different story, at least in my storage sheds....... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:22:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene In-Reply-To: <199809051352.IAA29290@mailbox.iamerica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From what I've read once you store in PDB, it is not for human consumption anymore. This year I extracted my uncapped after I had finished all my capped. I kept capped seperate from uncapped. In a few months I will check the uncapped to see if it has fermented. If not then it will be sellable. At 08:49 AM 9/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Will the use of PDB to store frames containing honey taint the honey? I >have some super frames that are partially filled with nectar and honey and >also some brood chamber frames of honey. The partially filled supers have >been on a hive over the inner cover and an empty super for several weeks >but the bees have not cleaned them out. I need to medicate the hive so I >am wondering if I can store them with my empty supers, protected by PDB, >and put them back on the hives in the spring. > >Rod > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:32:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: Re: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene -----Original Message----- From: David Green [SMTP:Pollinator@AOL.COM] In a message dated 9/5/98 9:51:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rrupert@mail.orion.org writes: > The partially filled supers have > been on a hive over the inner cover and an empty super for several weeks > but the bees have not cleaned them out. I need to medicate the hive so I > am wondering if I can store them with my empty supers, protected by PDB, > and put them back on the hives in the spring. Why do you need PDB anyway? If you store them in unheated storage, the wax moth activity will be nearly zero, unless you bring in a badly infested super with plenty of webbing already in place to insulate the wax moth larvae. Wax moths are only a problem when comb is stored in the warm season, or in heated storage areas. Now mice are a different story, at least in my storage sheds....... [Rod Rupert] Because I need to medicate now with both apistan and menthol, so I need to take the supers off. It is 95 degrees today and the really cold weather doesn't set in for another two months. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C@7`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`1 (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````;@`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````$EN9F]R;65D($1I``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S ! M````& ```$)%12U,0$-.4TE"32Y!3$)!3EDN1415``,`%0P!`````P#^#P8` M```>``$P`0```#L````G26YF;W)M960@1&ES8W5S M`/9?`0```#D```!);F9O0`````"`?=?`0```&X`````````@2L? MI+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!);F9O0!33510`$)%12U,0$-.4TE" M32Y!3$)!3EDN1415`````P#]7P$````#`/]?``````(!]@\!````! `````` M``+UAP$$@ $`*P```%)%.B!H;VYE>2!S=&]R86=E('=I=&@@<&%R861I8VAL M;W)O8F5N>F5N90`$$ $%@ ,`#@```,X'"0`%`!(`( `H``8`0P$!(( #``X` M``#.!PD`!0`2`!P`-@`&`$T!`0F `0`A````0C1!-3 R.41%1#0T1#(Q,3A" M-40T-#0U-3,U-# P,# `Z08!`Y &`%@'```A````"P`"``$````+`",````` M``,`)@``````"P`I```````#`"X```````,`-@``````0 `Y`(#KWW@EV;T! M'@!P``$````K````4D4Z(&AO;F5Y('-T;W)A9V4@=VET:"!P87)A9&EC:&QO M'N=`J6U1.T1THM=1$535 `` M```>`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````%P```')R=7!E``@0`0```&4````M+2TM M+4]224=)3D%,34534T%'12TM+2TM1E)/33I$059)1$=2145.4TU44#I03TQ, M24Y!5$]20$%/3$-/34E.04U%4U-!1T5$051%1#DO-2\Y.#DZ-3$Z,C-!345! M4U1%4DY$``````(!"1 !````)@0``"($``#T!0``3%I&=3SL1%0#``H` Z(#4Q.C(S$7!-(+A%87,9, 2A M'\!Y&& L9V@%0 =B+!=$2 =<"$`G27! EH2]352[#0A@ M-=33/)$P47EW)Z _-:$Y,.=!HCFY/U%U;BN@):,YLM\;(3N@+V$71$*@>"4` M&2#_.I `T"P`'^ Q`0/P(0`N$=0);$71#$T.F,W"U )\#$!;SDP,E!B8O\XX@= "7!)X$H2 M2[$`T#;1?S9 "X LX M@-L5&!PM@0;B=8T?\10#]",9(`<$91+S(X@$8QOV*!5R 8NBX`%T03 M@0!L, ```P`0$ `````#`!$0`0````,`@!#_____0 `',(!,=/(DV;T!0 `( M,(!,=/(DV;T!"P``@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````X4````````#``2 M"" &``````# ````````1@````!2A0``MPT``!X`!8 (( 8``````, ````` M``!&`````%2%```!````! ```#@N, `#``: "" &``````# ````````1@`` M```!A0````````L`#X (( 8``````, ```````!&``````Z%`````````P`0 M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$(4````````#`!& "" &``````# ```` M````1@`````1A0````````,`%( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!B%```` M````'@`D@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````!`````````!X` M)8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````````>`": "" & M``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%```` 24D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``.G) ` end ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:53:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steven Albritton wrote: >>From what I've read once you store in PDB, it is not for human consumption >anymore. This year I extracted my uncapped after I had finished all my >capped. I kept capped seperate from uncapped. In a few months I will >check the uncapped to see if it has fermented. If not then it will be >sellable. Decades ago I learned firsthand that PDB imparts an obnoxious flavor to honey. It can also "melt" some plastics it comes in contact with. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "To cling rigidly to familiar ideas is in essence the same as * * blocking the mind from engaging in creative free play." * * * * David Bohm and F. David Peat 1987 * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: Learning curve - update Hi Emily & All Ya'll, >I find it awfully difficult to lift/tilt a deep super full of honey stores >just by the indents provided on the sides of the boxes. If any of you >do install handles of some sort...what kind? Remember why you started beekeeping?.... keep that perspective. If yours is a hobby to be enjoyed, don't reach for that record honey crop (measured in POUNDS) or be too concerned about the 'bottom line' costs of operations. Honey supers weigh in at about 10 pounds/inch (height) and even without this rough conversion it is obvious that the shallow supers are the easiest to handle. For the same crop you will need additional woodenware but, on the small scale the increase in initial cost is not significant especially if compared to the labor savings. Keep those deep hive bodies for next year's apiary expansion. Nancy and I wouldn't move another full honey super without our added "lifting cleats" installed. These handles made from 3/4 inch lumber are just over 16 inches long with the width equal to the distance from the top edge of the super to the top lip of the factory cut handle. Effectively this increased the depth of the cut hand hold. Attached with exterior wood glue and inch and a half dry wall screws (3 or 4 are plenty), one on each end provides plenty of room for two hands on the front and two more on the back. NOTE: One problem with this location is that it requires 'custom' made tops (3 inches longer than standard) not a big concern because the garage manufacture provides scraps for handle production. An indirect benefit is the extra strength given to the rabbit cut which forms the frame rests. If you don't want the special tops, just move the handle low enough for clearance. If you have a partner spend the 60 bucks and get a hive carrier. One of those items I always planned to build at home to trim that 'bottom line' (lost my perspective). Nancy ordered one when I wasn't around and now we don't leave the honey house with it. Rick & Nancy Leber Beekeeping & Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, 'Sweet Home Alabama' ricks.toy@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:41:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: honey storage with paradichlorobenzene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/98 7:34:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rrupert@mail.orion.org writes: I asked: > Why do you need PDB anyway? If you store them in unheated storage, the > wax moth activity will be nearly zero, unless you bring in a badly infested > super with plenty of webbing already in place to insulate the wax moth > larvae. > > Wax moths are only a problem when comb is stored in the warm season, or > in > heated storage areas. Now mice are a different story, at least in my > storage > sheds....... > > [Rod Rupert answered] Because I need to medicate now with both apistan and menthol, > so I need to take the supers off. It is 95 degrees today and the really > cold weather doesn't set in for another two months. Okay, try this. (I'm in the south too -- the middle of wax moth's favorite country!) Store the supers on edge, with the frames vertical. Space an inch or so between each super, so the air can get to them. I have a few supers in the (hot) warehouse that have not been on this season at all. They do have a few moths in them, but their effect is minimal. If I had put them in regular stacks, they probably would be a lot worse. Wax moths like heat, brood comb, pollen, closed up areas. They don't like open air, and they are much less apt to get into supers than brood comb. If I have a deadout during the summer, the wax moths will totally destroy the brood comb in a couple weeks. But they are after pollen and dead brood. Oftentimes I can salvage the supers. Check them every couple weeks. If you start to see damage, put them back on the bees. But I bet it won't be very much. There's not enough time left in the season. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:39:40 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: propolized menthol packs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rod! What was the pack? I'm Pole, for me it is too difficult to understand it. What You put it in to hive for? I take an interest in it, because I want try to add menthol to syrup and because of Your experience I fear that bees won't bring this syrup to make a store. Greeting from Poland, Andrzej ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:55:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: Re: propolized menthol packs Menthol packs are 50 grams of menthol inside a small porus bag. The purpose is to kill tracheal mites. This is the first time I have used them. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A(0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`1 (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````;@`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````$EN9F]R;65D($1I``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S ! M````& ```$)%12U,0$-.4TE"32Y!3$)!3EDN1415``,`%0P!`````P#^#P8` M```>``$P`0```#L````G26YF;W)M960@1&ES8W5S M`/9?`0```#D```!);F9O0`````"`?=?`0```&X`````````@2L? MI+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!);F9O0!33510`$)%12U,0$-.4TE" M32Y!3$)!3EDN1415`````P#]7P$````#`/]?``````(!]@\!````! `````` M``+UAP$$@ $`'0```%)%.B!PF5D(&UE;G1H;VP@<&%C:W,`@@H! M!8 #``X```#.!PD`!@`*`#<`, ```%4!`2" `P`.````S@<)``8`"@`V``4` M```I`0$)@ $`(0```#,R0T)#-3@V-SF5D(&UE;G1H;VP@<&%C:W,``````@%Q``$````6`````;W9 MKM"'AL7+,T5W$=*+741%4U0`````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\, M`0```!<```!R M%W0+@*<`D $`&" @Q!06P=00@8F%G+B#H(%1H&%!P"' :H!$PPQF@ M!"!T;R!K`Q #(#9T&+ 0\&4'0!D@:72?!Y ;,QPA'"(;<69I$2!%!4!T!W$@ M22 1`';/&% :T F 'E)M+@JB"H0O"H$6D % $L!O'8!C=%D2!#$V(&03@0`C M```#`! 0``````,`$1 !`````P" $/____] `` M`"2 "" &``````# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@`E@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`)H (( 8````` M`, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````````>`#T``0````4```!213H@ .``````,`#33]-P``A,*% ` end ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 07:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: David Green MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Brasil, I've seen beekeepers at 4=B0 S. stack supers criss-cross at a = 90=B0 angle to prevent moth damage. If it works there, it'll work anywhere! Charles Andros My address: Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:48:38 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Bad honey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Richard H. Glassford II wrote: > >I was reading in our local paper the following article. "Don't put your >honey where your mouth is". In the article it advises consumers not to >purchase honey from backyard bee keepers. The article mentioned that >the suburban landscape may have flowers that produces poisonous honey. >The following plants were listed as causing problems: rhododendrons, >azaleas, jessamine, strawberry trees, melaleuca trees, agave plants or >privet. Is this true? I think this is a case of those opposed to back yard beekeepers attempting to manipulate public opinion. There is a reference to poisonous honey obtained from rhododendrons and mountain laurel in the ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping but the evidence is anecdotal and has not been chemically analysed (in my edition anyway). Bees kept in suburban areas have access to a very wide variety of nectar sources and the honey is not a pure varietal - in the early days of settlement in Adelaide it was labelled as a garden source and was prized for its taste, being a darker type honey. I do migrate hives to melaleuca sources (there are many, many types of melaleucas). Bees do very well on them because there is generally good quality pollen as well as nectar. I do note that if the season is dry the melaleuca may blossom but the bees will simply ignore them so presumably the nectar is rationed in the interests of survival of the tree. Certainly the pure melaleuca honeys are very popular with honey buyers - again they are darker with a full bodied flavour but not bitter. It might be interesting to attempt to trace the source of these rumours. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Attila Sipos Subject: amitraz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gentlemen! In my recent trip to Europa I picked up some liquid amitraz. Does anybody knows how to use this chemical in the liquid form. (25% solution). They told me amitraz is effective agains both mites. I would appreciate any help I could get in this matter. Thank You. Attila ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:04:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Timothy Rich Subject: Re: Bad honey - rhododendrons and mountain laurel MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDD9B0.8F313480" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD9B0.8F313480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ABC and XYZ report that the honey from rhododendrons and mountain = laurel has bad effects(not death): our house has much of both behind = us(North Carolina mountains) and we have enjoyed all of our honey - but = this is our first year. We read about this 'poisonous' honey and since = the local bee man sold his honey (just up the road) just after the = blooming of same, I tested our honey and found it to be good in taste = without ill effect. =20 Tim Rich=20 Keeper for Samuel and Jon's bees( 5 yrs and 4 yrs old)=20 -----Original Message----- From: j h & e mcadam [SMTP:hogbay@KIN.ON.NET] Sent: Sunday, September 06, 1998 8:49 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Bad honey Richard H. Glassford II wrote: > >I was reading in our local paper the following article. "Don't put your >honey where your mouth is". In the article it advises consumers not to >purchase honey from backyard bee keepers. The article mentioned that >the suburban landscape may have flowers that produces poisonous honey. >The following plants were listed as causing problems: rhododendrons, >azaleas, jessamine, strawberry trees, melaleuca trees, agave plants or >privet. Is this true? I think this is a case of those opposed to back yard beekeepers = attempting to manipulate public opinion. There is a reference to poisonous honey obtained from rhododendrons and mountain laurel in the ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping but the evidence is anecdotal and has not been chemically analysed (in my edition anyway). Bees kept in suburban areas have access to a very wide variety of nectar sources and the honey is not a pure varietal - in the early days of settlement in Adelaide it was labelled as a garden source and was prized = for its taste, being a darker type honey. I do migrate hives to melaleuca sources (there are many, many types of melaleucas). Bees do very well = on them because there is generally good quality pollen as well as nectar. = I do note that if the season is dry the melaleuca may blossom but the bees = will simply ignore them so presumably the nectar is rationed in the interests = of survival of the tree. Certainly the pure melaleuca honeys are very popular with honey buyers - again they are darker with a full bodied flavour but not bitter. It might be interesting to attempt to trace the source of these rumours. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Timothy Rich Subject: Re: Learning curve - update MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDD9B2.B8C5F8B0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD9B2.B8C5F8B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I find it awfully difficult to lift/tilt a deep super full of honey stores >just by the indents provided on the sides of the boxes. If any of you >do install handles of some sort...what kind? I added pieces of base molding to mine using screws from the inside. = Then I painted them same as the hive. They work fine and cost nothing, = as they were scraps from a building project. 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Amitraz One doesn't have to go to Europe to get this...it is readily available in the US. However, it is not legal to use on bee mites. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: amitraz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unless the material you purchased was intended for use in beehives it is not safe to do so. Amitraz is a potentially dangerous material, a carcinogen, and should be used with caution around food products. Check the label for directions, if there is no advice pertaining bees pehaps you should find a better way. Attila Sipos wrote: > > Gentlemen! In my recent trip to Europa I picked up some liquid amitraz. Does > anybody knows how to use this chemical in the liquid form. (25% solution). > They told me amitraz is effective agains both mites. I would appreciate any > help I could get in this matter. Thank You. Attila ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:58:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carl Fuller Subject: Re: Learning curve - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking of learning curves, I am a new bee hobbiest. I have obtained two hives, full, with extracted supers set back on top. The first one seemed to do just fine, the second seems awful active. I noticed the drones were being put out quite regularly. Then I would see them fly back in..... if they could get off the grass. I did notice the workers were trying their best to damage the drones wings..... I suspect they have the notion that they do not have enough stores to keep the drones through the winter and are trying to be rid of them...... Question, as a hobbiest, and not really wanting to see all that turmoil, should I feed the hive with a top feeder or bag feeder to see if that settles them down? Or should I not worry about it? I did notice the first hive, was throwing off a "not completely" ready bee of some sort. Fully developed, but still very imature.... do I have another problem in that hive also? Thanks...... Carl Portsmouth, VA. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:35:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Learning curve - update On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:58:40 -0400 Carl Fuller writes: >..... I noticed the drones were being put out quite regularly. >Then I would see them fly back in.....if they could get off the grass. >I did notice the workers were trying their best to damage the drones wings..... >I suspect they have the notion that they do not have enough stores to keep >the drones through the winter trying to be rid of them...... Question, as a hobbiest, >and not really wanting to see all that turmoil,............ Carl: It is that time of year (fall approaching) that all good worker bees feel compelled to pitch all good drones out to either starve or freeze to death. They simply will not be needed again until next spring when virgin queens are flying about looking to mate. It is sad to see males treated in such a cruel barbarous manner [ oh, oh, here comes a remark or two from the opposite sex...duck your heads :-) ] So... the "turmoil" is normal "beehavior" for this time of year on the east coast of the US. Al ...................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine should I feed the hive with a top >feeder or >bag feeder to see if that settles them down? Or should I not worry >about >it? I did notice the first hive, was throwing off a "not completely" >ready >bee of some sort. Fully developed, but still very imature.... do I >have >another problem in that hive also? Thanks...... >Carl >Portsmouth, VA. > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:15:28 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: Re: Learning curve - update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, What you describe is absolutely normal. All have in correct conditions will puch out drones at the end of the summer. They don't need them anymore... and in the springs, when new kween are supposed to be produiced, they will start to produice new drones. Don't forget drones are the result of unfertilised eggs... that the qween canproduice then any time needed. So as soon as the bees will have the feeling summer is over and qween is OK, they will puch the drones out. Bernard. Brussels in Belgium. At 16:58 05-09-98 -0400, you wrote: >Speaking of learning curves, I am a new bee hobbiest. I have obtained two >hives, full, with extracted supers set back on top. The first one seemed to >do just fine, the second seems awful active. I noticed the drones were >being put out quite regularly. Then I would see them fly back in..... if >they could get off the grass. I did notice the workers were trying their >best to damage the drones wings..... I suspect they have the notion that >they do not have enough stores to keep the drones through the winter and are >trying to be rid of them...... Question, as a hobbiest, and not really >wanting to see all that turmoil, should I feed the hive with a top feeder or >bag feeder to see if that settles them down? Or should I not worry about >it? I did notice the first hive, was throwing off a "not completely" ready >bee of some sort. Fully developed, but still very imature.... do I have >another problem in that hive also? Thanks...... >Carl >Portsmouth, VA. > > ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles tel -32-2 - 711.11.30 * * Support Contract Specialist fax -32-2 - 711.11.22 * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:39:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Varroa Calculator In-Reply-To: <904655085.1117742.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <904655085.1117742.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Hello All > >I have recently obtained a Varroa Calculator from the British Beekeepers >Association of which I am a member. The calculator has the approval of the >British Ministry of Agriculture and Food (MAFF). When we discussed the Varroa calculator at one of our association meetings recently, we came to the conclusion that it was a good (if rather complicated) guide but produced results that were about two weeks out of date because of the gap between eggs being laid and the adult mites being available to count. -- Paul Walton Bedfordshire, England Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:56:35 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Tip for moving hives Hi Wallace and All I picked up a nice tip from an old beekeeper in y area who has had to move hives for many decades. He is also quite soft hearted and hates to kill bees. What he does is when he takes the bees, he always leaves a nuc behind at the spot where the apiary was. This mops up all the stragglers, and also, when the rest of the hives come back the next year, it is ready to begin production. I have tried to organise myself enough to do this, but usually forget. For a small distance move I do the following: At the new location point the hives in the opposite direction - smother the entrance with sticks and grass so the bees have to walk along the ground for at least an arms length. Leave an empty hive body at the previous location. At night, take the bees in this body and dump them at the entrance of the new location hives. After three days very few returnees make anymore mistakes. When moving hives - smoke the bees under the lid and in the entrance twice. This will calm them. Never seal the entrance - the bees gas themselves with carbon dioxide and raise their temperature until the wax becomes weak. Hope this helps. Keep we Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 07:26:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: chuck s mcmarrow Subject: FILTERING HONEY I am new to beekeeping this year and have two hives. They both seem to have done well as I have extracted about 110lbs of surplus honey from one hive and about 50lbs from the other. I borrowed an extractor from my cousin to remove the honey. The first time around everything went well, I extracted the honey and filtered it through two stainless steel screens and then heated it up so it would flow better. The first screen has approximately 1/16" openings and the second screen openings are closer to 1/64". The second batch of honey has some fine particulate matter present in it. Is there a way to effectively remove this? I would appreciate any pratical help that is out there. Thanks Chuck McMarrow Carroll, Ohio USA _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: amitraz In-Reply-To: <199809061758.KAA08981@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:46 PM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Gentlemen! In my recent trip to Europa I picked up some liquid amitraz. Does >anybody knows how to use this chemical in the liquid form. (25% solution). >They told me amitraz is effective agains both mites. I would appreciate any >help I could get in this matter. Thank You. Attila Hi Attila, The best way to find out how to use it is to talk with other local bee keepers in your area that have or are using it. I am sure by this time the problems such as killing your own bees have been worked out. If you can't find this information search the Internet as formulations have been posted in the past for this chemical and formulations of other products that contain it. Stock men are good sources of information as they have several mite problems and solutions that could be adapted to honey bees. Some of these can be purchased at larger farm supply stores if you know the name of the chemical you want to use and have time to read the label on consumer products.. Posting questions like that here in an international list group with so many US bee keepers only gets you lots of remarks about the legalities of its use as here in the US its use is not allowed at this time in the US because of problems with bee kills in the one prescribed product that was in use for a short time and then only in a limited area. Some say this and other products are being used here, I can not say other then what I have heard which is different then what I have seen which is heavy reliance of APISTAN strips that are very costly and may be less effective then other products or methods of Varroa mite control. US beekeepers have a problem believing that our own laws, rules, and regulation are not world wide in scope and if you do not identify the country you are from they are fast in assuming that you are asking for information for use of products that are clearly not permitted locally in our country. We have a hard time believing that if we can not use something that others may be within their own rights and laws to do so as we lost ours long ago. We are sometimes called Ugly Americans but in reality we have a ugly system of Bee Regulation that is hard to differentiate from other support systems of bee keeping such as Bee Science, and Bee Keeper Education because of an incestuous relationship between them here in the US and we are fast becoming brain washed and sadly brain dead. Our system does not tell us if this chemical does not work or that it is any more or less desirable to use as a Varroa mite killer as any other chemical only that we may not use it as it is not registered to use in bee hives. In other countries wood strips, such as tough depressors or popcycle sticks are allowed to soak up the chemical and then they are placed in the hive and the chemical is released over a period of time. Some have used card board or paper or other organic absorbent materials to do the same thing having the benefit of the bees removing the dispenser over a period of time. I suspect as the value of honey retreats to the levels of the olden days more interest will be generated in finding less costly methods of controlling bee pests if needed at all. Direct application of chemicals is another method of use, and one that for sure will in a short time tell you if you have the right mix as with many of these chemicals a little to much will kill your bees. Most topical applications are based on information developed that determines the amount that will kill the target pest and not the host and at the same time its use will not contaminate the products of the hive. These are determined by trial and error and the use of a good chemical lab that can work with wax and honey. And of course if any Texas, USA, bee keeper were to pass you this information on how it could be used he could find his self with personal legal problems as one did experience not so long ago in another public on line group. You see our bee cops are also part of the thought police at least in Texas and with all its extreme bee keeper regulation has manage to spread the Tex-Mex Afro bee and "killer" fire ants all the way to California. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:16:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Francis Subject: Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Hi all I'm going to start feeding soon and will be placing a bowl of sugar solution above the brood box. Question - do I leave the queen excluder on or place the bowl directly on top of the brood frames? Replies to francism@rsc.org Michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:08:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Learning Curve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carl Fuller writes re drones being thrown out of the hive and raises the question of feeding. This is quite a normal procedure at this time of the year. Even if the bees have enough stores they will throw out most if not all of the drones, as long as they have a mated queen. If you decide to feed the bees, you should do so on the basis of the weight of stores in the hive. I show below two paragraphs from the Beekeeping Study Notes by J.D & B.D. Yates regarding winter feeding which I hope is helpful. (I converted the weights from Imperial to Metric - I hope they are OK). Each frame in the brood chamber is inspected, and the amount of liquid stores estimated on the basis that a BS (British Standard) frame when full and sealed with honey weighs 5 lbs (2.3 kgs). A Commercial frame holds 7 lbs (3.1 kgs). For other makes of hives, consult documentation or weigh a full frame. A strong colony requires 35lbs (15.9 kgs) to see it through to the spring. Assume that the hive contains 25lbs (11.3 kgs) of stores based on an examination of the frames. The colony requires 10lbs (4.6 kgs) of additional stores. 1 lb (.45 kgs) of honey contains 0.8 lb (.36 kgs) sugar, therefore the colony requires 10 X .8 = 8 lbs (3.6 kgs) sugar, fed in syrup form. The syrup consists of 2 lbs (.90 kgs) sugar to 1 pint (.57 litres) of water, so we mix the 8 lbs(3.6 kgs) sugar with 4 pints (2.3 litres) of water. Since the above is straight out of the text book, and I am only a second year beekeeper, I cannot vouch for it's correctness (but if you stated the above in an examination question in this country, it would be accepted as correct). Bear in mind of course that the above figures are UK based. Any feed back (pardon the pun!), will be appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:51:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Filtering honey Chuck, you are certainly doing well to have that much surplus honey the first year. With you second screen being only about 1/16 of an inch (.16 cm) I am surprised you don t see quite a bit of suspended matter in both batches of honey. You need one more filter. All the major bee supply houses sell fine filters that would do fine for you. They are usually plastic and designed to fit over a 60 pound (five gallon) bucket. They will last many, many years and are completely washable. If you do not want to buy one, a stocking will work well, but you will have to find a way to suspend it above the pail. Major paint stores also sell filter cloth and the related hangers and these are also designed to fit on five gallon buckets. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:31:22 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: FILTERING HONEY In-Reply-To: <199809071257.GAA21747@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, chuck s mcmarrow wrote: > I extracted the honey and filtered it through two stainless steel screens > and then heated it up so it would flow better. The first screen has > approximately 1/16" openings and the second screen openings are closer to > 1/64". The second batch of honey has some fine particulate matter > present in it. Is there a way to effectively remove this? In our area we get a lot of Canola honey which granulates quite quickly. If one does not harvest and extract this honey in a timely manner, it contains tiny crystals which plug the filters almost immediately. We just wash the filter cloths more frequently. The only remedy is to extract early and filter immediately. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:25:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: FILTERING HONEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck You could try using a filter bag. It is an extremely fine nylon mesh bag that should filter out anything else you've got in the honey. You may also have gotten some goldenrod honey that can contain some fine particulates. Where is Carroll? I'm in Elyria, in Lorain county. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:52:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: 19th Century beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From the *Household Cyclopedia* printed in 1881: "BEES AND THEIR MANAGEMENT Who should keep Bees. Bee-keeping is now admitted, both in this country and in Europe, to be one of the most profitable rural pursuits. Perhaps in no other branch can so large and sure profit be secured in proportion to the capital and labor necessary to be invested. One hundred to five hundred per cent, has often been realized in a single season, where intelligent care has been given these little insects; and there are instances recorded of even greater returns from them in unusually good seasons. This business is made by many intelligent persons a specialty, but it is not necessary that This should be the case, indeed until the honey resources of the United States are better developed, it is important that all classes should be made acquainted with the facts." For the entire article go to the Household Cylopedia site and click on Beekeeping: http://members.xoom.com/mspong/ Best wishes, Joseph ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:55:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Re: FILTERING HONEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck, I'm also a new beekeeper and was having just the opposite problem with filtering because I was trying to filter everything through paper coffee filters and it was taking forever. Then I visited the Nebraska Beekeepers Association booth at the State Fair and a Lancaster County Extension guy gave me some great advice: PANTYHOSE! I went home, cut a 6- or 7-inch-wide band off one leg of old pantyhose, and stretched it over both ends of a 5-inch plastic funnel. It worked great, filtered fairly fast, and there was no lint problem. (A few days later, over cocoa and cookies at the neighborhood bar, my friend Carl raised two important issues for those considering this method: (1) was I sure they were old pantyhose, and (2) was I sure they were my wife's?) ---------- > From: chuck s mcmarrow > Subject: FILTERING HONEY > Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 6:26 AM > > I am new to beekeeping this year and have two hives. They both seem to> have done well as I have extracted about 110lbs of surplus honey from one > hive and about 50lbs from the otherThe second batch of honey has some fine particulate matter > present in it. Is there a way to effectively remove this?> I would appreciate any pratical help that is out there. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:10:21 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Vladimir V. Obolonkin" Subject: Re: amitraz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All! Here is Vladimir from Belarus, I use AMITRAZ three years and have found it enough cheap and convinient in . Amitraz emulsion is sold here ander name of BIPIN in 1, 2 or 10 mililiter ampulas especially for treating against varroa. I don't remember initial concentration of amitraz in ampulas (I can find a reference later if anybody need). To use the bipin you need to solve 1 ml ampula in 1 liter of water (18-20C) and use in a dose 10 ml per frame of bees.Bees must be in a claster (temperature must be less than 8 C). Vladimir ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:36:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Andy Nachbaur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, etc., If you click on the message and hit respond to author you will see the address of the author. I am a bit more careful about building Apistan residues in my hives. Although expensive, Zoecon strips are scientifically made, as opposed to other unlicensed methods. If you want polluted honey, or resistant mites, overdose or underdose your bees! Charles F. Andros