Article 30648 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "David A." <##daaple@home.com> Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Adding Check Mite strips to the Hive. Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:37:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.248.135.205 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.ga.home.com 1007239046 24.248.135.205 (Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:37:26 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:37:26 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.ga.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30648 Hello All I am in Middle Georgia and we are still having 70deg. days. My bees are still active and colleting pollen. When I inspected the hive last weekend I found some uncapped honey and a small amount of capped brood as well as some brood at the larval stage. Does this all sound normal. Is it too late to add check mite strips? I am going into my second winter with my bees. Working on my own with the help of books and this NG. I have not been able to find a beekeepers group around here. Thank you. David A. Article 30649 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Dave Hamilton Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Candle mold problem Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:44:51 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp. http://corp.webusenet.com - ReInventing the UseNet Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:50:25 -0600 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeeds-atl2!newsfeeds-atl1.usenetserver.com!atlpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30649 My wife has a Poly candle mold that worked fine for the first 6 candles .. then it has become increasing hard to get the candle out. Now we are litterly peeling it off the candle. We washed mold with soap and water several times We bought silicon mold release .. made it worse We washed mold with soap and water several times We tried Pam .. made it worse The mold sticks so tightly to the wax we have to break candle to get it out. this was an expensive mold .. ideas? Dave Article 30650 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Ruary Rudd" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <20011130151340.27146.00000035@mb-mu.aol.com> Subject: Re: Feeding Sugar Candy Lines: 15 Organization: Westgate, waterville X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <7UkO7.14609$8s4.64215@news.indigo.ie> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:35:28 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.134.157.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eircom.net X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 1007278723 159.134.157.251 (Sun, 02 Dec 2001 07:38:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 07:38:43 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.esat.net!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30650 Yes Ruary Rudd BeeCrofter wrote in message news:20011130151340.27146.00000035@mb-mu.aol.com... > Given the prolonged warm spell I think I am going to want to feed the bees and > would like to try candy. > Any pointers out there? I have the kitchen all to myself this weekend. > Is the 12345 formula sufficient? 1 pint water 5 lbs sugar brought to 234 > degrees f? Article 30651 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Feeding Sugar Candy Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:48:52 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3c0a14d8.250159751@news1.radix.net> References: <20011130151340.27146.00000035@mb-mu.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p5.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30651 On 30 Nov 2001 20:13:40 GMT, beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) wrote: >Given the prolonged warm spell I think I am going to want to feed the bees and >would like to try candy. >Any pointers out there? I have the kitchen all to myself this weekend. >Is the 12345 formula sufficient? 1 pint water 5 lbs sugar brought to 234 >degrees f? > And it will all have to be individually wrapped or the queen won't let them eat it. beekeep Article 30652 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Bill Hughes" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Colonies wanted Lines: 3 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.255.97.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com 1007301784 ST000 209.255.97.46 (Sun, 02 Dec 2001 09:03:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 09:03:04 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOP^C@EL]\K@BLFTBGR_N@ATM[@GZ_GYO^BSZUSAANVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 14:03:04 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30652 Looking to purchase colonies in west Tennessee or north Ms. Article 30653 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: dubees@enter.net (Andrew) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: beeswax candles FS Date: 2 Dec 2001 14:19:08 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 3 Message-ID: <89d43b09.0112021419.781bf1c0@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.18.9.11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1007331549 30183 127.0.0.1 (2 Dec 2001 22:19:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Dec 2001 22:19:09 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30653 http://www.dubees.com Du-Bees Apiaries Article 30654 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <3C0C480B.9DF5F307@home.com> From: Gary Johns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Candle mold problem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 03:50:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.254.198.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.denver1.co.home.com 1007437819 24.254.198.231 (Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:50:19 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:50:19 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.denver1.co.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30654 Dave Hamilton wrote: > My wife has a Poly candle mold that worked fine for the first 6 > candles .. then it has become increasing hard to get the candle out. > Now we are litterly peeling it off the candle. > > We washed mold with soap and water several times > We bought silicon mold release .. made it worse > We washed mold with soap and water several times > We tried Pam .. made it worse > > The mold sticks so tightly to the wax we have to break candle to get > it out. > > this was an expensive mold .. > > ideas? > > Dave Dave, How long are you letting your candles set up? I wait 30 minutes before I try to pull my candles out. I leave about 2" of wick on the end so I can wrap my finger around it and pull. I've also put my molds in the freezer for the last 10 minutes in order to help the wax to set a little harder. I make mostly 8 & 10" tapers. Gary J. Article 30655 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: JAF Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Candle mold problem Organization: Or Chaos? You Choose! Message-ID: References: <3C0C480B.9DF5F307@home.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:16:20 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.227.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1007464588 62.255.227.5 (Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:16:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:16:28 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30655 On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 03:50:19 GMT, Gary Johns wrote: > > >Dave Hamilton wrote: > >> My wife has a Poly candle mold that worked fine for the first 6 >> candles .. then it has become increasing hard to get the candle out. >> Now we are litterly peeling it off the candle. >> >> We washed mold with soap and water several times >> We bought silicon mold release .. made it worse >> We washed mold with soap and water several times >> We tried Pam .. made it worse >> >> The mold sticks so tightly to the wax we have to break candle to get >> it out. >> >> this was an expensive mold .. >> >> ideas? >> >> Dave > >Dave, > >How long are you letting your candles set up? I wait 30 minutes before I >try to pull my candles out. I leave about 2" of wick on the end so I can >wrap my finger around it and pull. I've also put my molds in the freezer >for the last 10 minutes in order to help the wax to set a little harder. >I make mostly 8 & 10" tapers. > >Gary J. If the wax you poor into the moulds is 'too hot' it can damage the inside of the mould, causing small cracks, which provide a 'key' for the wax to grip to. Smearing a *very* small amount of washing up liquid all over the inner surfaces *can* help removal. I've found, unfortunately, that many moulds just don't last very long, especially the latex type, which gradually stretch, and then perish. Perhaps a longer time for setting might allow the candle to shrink a bit more? -- jaf @ jaffullstopcoanotherfullstopuk ne cede malis Article 30656 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: candle mold material Date: 4 Dec 2001 04:37:14 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 5 Message-ID: <344b9345.0112040437.a2d35ab@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1007469434 3695 127.0.0.1 (4 Dec 2001 12:37:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Dec 2001 12:37:14 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30656 If i want to make a mold myself what would be the best material to use? Will wood or clay work ok? Thanks, Andrey. Article 30657 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Bee projekt" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Russian bees Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:03:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> Organization: TDC Internet NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.242.10.86 X-Trace: 1007471499 dread04.news.tele.dk 29636 62.242.10.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@post.tele.dk Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30657 Is there any new experience white the mite resistant Russian bees from US? Flemming Rasmussen Reva Northwest Reva Northwest. Bee Department. Bispevej 25. 2400 Copenhagen nv. Denmark. Phone: 38325074. Article 30658 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Steve Huston" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> Subject: Re: Russian bees Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:31:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.31.162.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 1007476290 66.31.162.107 (Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:31:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:31:30 EST Organization: ATT Broadband Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws06.ne.mediaone.net!65.96.0.182!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30658 "Bee projekt" wrote in message news:3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk... > Is there any new experience white the mite resistant Russian bees from US? > > Flemming Rasmussen > > Reva Northwest Reva Northwest. Bee Department. Bispevej 25. 2400 Copenhagen > nv. Denmark. Phone: 38325074. This was my 3rd season with bees, and I run 4 colonies, so I'm not terribly experienced, and I have a small sample size, but... I tried 2 colonies Russian and 2 colonies New World Carniolan this year (I've had all NWC before this). I was hoping for better mite performance (though I've no real complaint about the NWC either). All my hives have screened bottoms with sticky board. I do 24 hour mite drop count every month to monitor. All 4 were low all year (I think I had no more than 20 mites in any colony) but the Russians were usually the lowest. When I put Apistan in September, I also did 24 hour count, and the NWC were lowest, but not significantly. So, I saw no significant difference in mite counts (they were all quite good). The Russian colonies built up quite well and collected honey well also (though not quite as good as the NWC). So performance-wise, they were close to my NWC. The negative points from my view... the strongest of my 2 Russian colonies swarmed mid-August. Mega swarm. The remaining bees never got a queen through to be mated (I saw 8-10 queen cells, hatched, but never any brood). I ended up combining them with the other Russian colony. I have cleared the supers for honey collection using an escape in the inner cover, under the supers. The Russians were very quick to begin swarm cells when separated from the queen by the board. This may have triggered the August swarm, but there was no brood in the supers. Just an idea... Also, I found the Russians to be quite defensive. I was used to working my NWC in a short sleeve shirt with just my veil. I got hammered by the Russians as soon as the colony grew to a decent size. Now I have a full bee suit and won't open a Russian colony without it on. After working the Russian colonies, bees would continue to harrass anyone walking anywhere in our yard for the rest of the day. Not just in the fall either. Since I live in a neighborhood with neighbors within 200ft on all sides, and I don't find it enjoyable to be covered with angry bees, my Russian colony will be requeened to NWC next spring. YMMV. -Steve Article 30659 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Vandy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Candle mold problem Message-ID: <7m8o0u4svsohgbgbq1vld2i28ggfp43j54@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lines: 19 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:50:58 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.67.247.29 X-Trace: eagle.america.net 1007481620 206.67.247.29 (Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:00:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:00:20 EST Organization: 24hoursupport.com Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!falcon.america.net!eagle.america.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30659 On Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:50:25 -0600, Dave Hamilton wrote: >The mold sticks so tightly to the wax we have to break candle to get >it out. =20 Once the wax is fully set, loosen the mold parts if it comes in parts held by clamps or screws. Dip the whole mold with candle in very hot water just for an instant. This should cause the outer layer of wax to free from the mold. If the mold is metal, the problem may be a result of a roughening of the surfaces and should be polished over or buffed. I don't have any ideas on how to smooth surfaces on plastic or glass molds. Any chance you are pouring too hot? I used to have problems with molds seizing if the wax was heated too hot. I had better luck when wax was heated just enough to pour. Article 30660 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: beeswax candles FS Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:13:48 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 10 Message-ID: <3c0b7a73.60163216@news1.radix.net> References: <89d43b09.0112021419.781bf1c0@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p8.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30660 On 2 Dec 2001 14:19:08 -0800, dubees@enter.net (Andrew) wrote: >http://www.dubees.com > >Du-Bees Apiaries I could go for a good dubee. beekeep Article 30661 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <903564178.1007358955862.JavaMail.usenet@eresmas.com> From: "AnСnimo" Subject: hhhhhhhh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Lines: 2 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:55:55 +0100 (CET) NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.110.101 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eresmas.com X-Trace: news-reader.eresmas.com 1007358956 192.168.110.101 (Mon, 03 Dec 2001 06:55:56 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 06:55:56 MET Organization: eresMas Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!ams.uu.net!phobos.ibnetwork.net!seanews1.seabone.net!garse!news-feeder.eresmas.com!news-reader.eresmas.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30661 kkkkkkkk Article 30662 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Paul Hirst" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: candle mold material Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:19:45 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9ujbb2$nm3$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <344b9345.0112040437.a2d35ab@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-72-152.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30662 Liquid Latex and thickener from craft shops, chose an object paint on several coats when fully dry peel off. "Andrey" wrote in message news:344b9345.0112040437.a2d35ab@posting.google.com... > If i want to make a mold myself what would be the best material to > use? Will wood or clay work ok? > > Thanks, > Andrey. Article 30663 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 7 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 05 Dec 2001 03:48:53 GMT References: <9ujbb2$nm3$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: candle mold material Message-ID: <20011204224853.22463.00000866@mb-mc.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30663 Plaster of paris works just fine for 2 piece split molds Article 30664 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: candle mold material Date: 5 Dec 2001 04:53:32 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 1 Message-ID: <344b9345.0112050453.3a7f1eba@posting.google.com> References: <9ujbb2$nm3$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <20011204224853.22463.00000866@mb-mc.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1007556812 4498 127.0.0.1 (5 Dec 2001 12:53:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 2001 12:53:32 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30664 Thanks for reply. Article 30665 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: adamf@panix1.panix.com.null (Adam Finkelstein) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: 5 Dec 2001 15:41:53 -0500 Organization: Self-Organized. Dig that. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9um0qh$f39$1@panix1.panix.com> References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Reply-To: adamf@panix.com. NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1007584913 10195 166.84.1.1 (5 Dec 2001 20:41:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 2001 20:41:53 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!news.panix.com!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30665 Hi. We're looking at Russian lines from Glenn Apiaries http://members.aol.com/queenb95/web/home.html crossed with other lines showing varying mite tolerance. These are II crosses. Not much data yet but they seem to combine well. Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@panix.com http://www.ibiblio.org/bees/adamf Article 30666 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Vincenc Petruna" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Hive scales Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:06:36 +0000 (UTC) Organization: ARNES Lines: 5 Message-ID: <01c17e60$00689a60$8e08f9c2@ppp.arnes.si> NNTP-Posting-Host: nm4-142i.dial-up.arnes.si X-Trace: planja.arnes.si 1007647596 8938 194.249.8.142 (6 Dec 2001 14:06:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@arnes.si NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:06:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news-hub.siol.net!kanja.arnes.si!planja.arnes.si!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30666 I am looking for elecronic hive scales, with posibility of interfacing with computer or mobile phone. I' be glad of any suggestions, adresses, URL's, etc. Vincenc Petruna Article 30667 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Истомин" Newsgroups: odessa.commerce.transport,relcom.commerce.computers,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.fruit,sci.agriculture.poultry,sci.agriculture.ratites Subject: Re: Запасные части по низким ценам Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:02:58 +0300 Organization: user from ELVISTI Lines: 58 Message-ID: <9un8tq$1fa$11@app0.visti.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: acc7-221.dialup.elvisti.kiev.ua X-Trace: app0.visti.net 1007625978 1514 195.64.228.221 (6 Dec 2001 08:06:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@app0.visti.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Dec 2001 08:06:18 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!carrier.kiev.ua!horse.lucky.net!info.elvisti.kiev.ua!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu relcom.commerce.computers:192031 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30667 sci.agriculture.fruit:4069 sci.agriculture.poultry:33093 sci.agriculture.ratites:1764 Истомин пишет в сообщении:... > > > ОБЩЕСТВО С ОГРАНИЧЕННОЙ ОТВЕТСТВЕННОСТЬЮ > < А В А Н Т А Ж - А Г Р О > > > > > Украина, г. Киев > ул. А. Пироговского, 19/4 > офис ?47 > Тел/факс (044) 249-69-05 > > > > > > УВАЖАЕМЫЕ ГОСПОДА!!! > > Вашему вниманию предлагаем, по низким ценам, запасные части для > автотракторной техники и сельскохозяйственных машин в ассортименте: > - распределители гидравлические; > - насос НШ всех модификаций; > - гидроцилиндры; > - турбокомпрессора; > - топливные насосы; > - пара плунжерная; > - рукова высокого давления; > - рулевое управление; > - сцепление; > - пустовые двигатели (комплектующие к ним); > - водяние насосы; > - комплектующие КПП и многое другое. > РЕМКОМПЛЕКТЫ. > Также производим ремонт: топливной системы, гидравлической системы, > турбокомпрессоров. > При ремонте топливной аппаратуры происходит замена всех изношенных > изделий на новые качественные. Ставим только сертифицированный товар при > замене. > Ремонтируя гидрораспределители, производим напыление золотника с > последующей шлифовкой. > Ремонтируя гидроцилиндры всегда производим замену штока на новый. > Турбокомпрессора обкатываем на проверочном стенде, поэтому даём 100% > гарантию. > Действуют гибкие системы скидок для оптовых покупателей. > Полный ассортимент нашей продукции Вы можете получить по > нашему E-mail: avantag@visti.com и тел/факс: (044) 249-69-05. > > С уважением, > > Директор > ИСТОМИН В.В. > > > Article 30668 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <-322105980.1007638606352.JavaMail.usenet@eresmas.com> From: aaaaa Subject: aaaa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Lines: 2 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:36:46 +0100 (CET) NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.110.101 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eresmas.com X-Trace: news-reader.eresmas.com 1007638606 192.168.110.101 (Thu, 06 Dec 2001 12:36:46 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 12:36:46 MET Organization: eresMas Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mailgate.org!ams.uu.net!phobos.ibnetwork.net!seanews1.seabone.net!garse!news-feeder.eresmas.com!news-reader.eresmas.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30668 aaaa Article 30669 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: adamf@panix3.panix.com.null (Adam Finkelstein) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: 7 Dec 2001 14:04:28 -0500 Organization: Self-Organized. Dig that. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru> Reply-To: adamf@panix.com. NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1007751868 1104 166.84.1.3 (7 Dec 2001 19:04:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Dec 2001 19:04:28 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30669 In article <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru>, Viacheslav Sheveliov wrote: >Russian bee and lesser - Italian and Korean bees. Actually, this bee strain >is very heterogeneous. Most bee strains are. Bees are selected by man. Most honey bees are synanthropic--meaning they have changed over time due to direct interaction or association with humans. >Honey production of Far Eastern bees have been formed in conditions of rich >nectar sources, mostly from linden, and can do well in such conditions. >In Primorsky region there are 3 main species of linden with successive >flowering one month long and Far Eastern bees usually produce 50-100 kg of >honey. That's fascinating. When does this Linden flow start? Is the honey of high quality? Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@panix.com http://www.ibiblio.org/bees/adamf Article 30670 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Jdor Inc." Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: If You can Help Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:20:25 -0600 Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.40.220.249 Message-ID: <3c1113fb_2@newsa.ev1.net> X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 1007752187 216.40.220.249 (7 Dec 2001 13:09:47 -0600) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nnxp1.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30670 If You can Help On Thanksgiving Day My wife and I went for a Ride She was on a 2000 Zx9 I was On A 2001 Gsxr 1000. Around 12:00 pm we entered an intersection(West bound on 114 crossing 377 )in Roanoke Texas(home of texas motor Speedway) The light turned Yellow so I stopped.As I looked over my left shoulder I watched A 2001 Black Isuzu Rodeo Hit my wife(at About 55-65 mph)it launched my wife over 4 lanes a median and another 20-25 ft into the next intersection(she was wearing full gear boots ,gloves'helmet,leathers ect ect) .Witness's said the lady never even put on her brakes.She was taken to baylor hospital in Grapevine Texas. By 10:00 PM they had done several x-Rays cat scans MRI etc Tec..The conclusion was 3 fractured vertebras she stayed in the hospital for 5 more days flat on her back an IV only no food(bowels shut down) on Tues night had back Surgery only fixed 1 vertebra will look at the other 2 in a month might have to go in again. On top of all this I took 1 week off of work and tried to use sick days .They said I couldn't because I wasn't sick(my wife is in the hospital with a broken back and IM no supposed to be with her?)The fired me and in Texas there is nothing that you can do. We got a Lawyer and found out that the injury to others was only $20,000 which is typical for Texas.So that wont even cover the medical expenses Never mind lawyers therapy lost income ect ect. cant sue the person(was 18 year old girl driving mommies car) we would never see a dime So now I stand to lose my house and everything my family has built up because some damn kid cant drive and mommie doesn't have enough coverage. Police reports can be uptained through the Roanoke Police dept.I believe S. Feilder was the officer on the scene. any help would be appreciated Even $1.00 My email is jdor@ev1.net pay pal address is jdor@ev1.net Or address is 2003 Salem St Irving Texas 75061 At this point I dont know what to do no lawyer can get money that isn't there And How can I affor to get her rehab with no money Any help would be appreciated Please check all your own insurance policy's and make sure you have at least $100,000 so this wont happen to you Jeff Ashby Article 30671 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <-1277096555.1007760467790.JavaMail.usenet@eresmas.com> From: jorge de la torre martin Subject: eros Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Lines: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:27:47 +0100 (CET) NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.110.101 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eresmas.com X-Trace: news-reader.eresmas.com 1007760467 192.168.110.101 (Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:27:47 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:27:47 MET Organization: eresMas Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!area.cu.mi.it!kirk.uli.it!phobos.ibnetwork.net!seanews1.seabone.net!garse!news-feeder.eresmas.com!news-reader.eresmas.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30671 nos quedamos sin judias Article 30672 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Viacheslav Sheveliov" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:35:29 +0300 Organization: COMSTAR Telecommunications Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru> References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d178.p8.col.ru X-Trace: storm.comstar.ru 1007675069 60920 212.248.4.178 (6 Dec 2001 21:44:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@comstar.ru NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Dec 2001 21:44:29 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!comstar.ru!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30672 Hi! I'm not a beekeeper, I'm only interested. I guess that what Americans call "Russian bees" really are Far Eastern bees, originated from Russian Far East. Most researchers think that this strain was formed mostly from Ukrainian bee, with great influence of Central Russian bee and lesser - Italian and Korean bees. Actually, this bee strain is very heterogeneous. European bees (Apis millifera). Resistance to Varroa mite of this Far Eastern bees can be explained with fact, that occurrence of Varroa on European bees began from Russian Far East (this region is big source of infection, another example - downy mildew on cucurbits). There was no cure for this mite, and perhaps, more than half of Far Eastern bees have died. So, it was natural breeding. Honey production of Far Eastern bees have been formed in conditions of rich nectar sources, mostly from linden, and can do well in such conditions. In Primorsky region there are 3 main species of linden with successive flowering one month long and Far Eastern bees usually produce 50-100 kg of honey. ------ Viacheslav Sheveliov slavash@aha.ru Article 30673 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "David Eyre" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:39:14 -0500 Organization: The Bee Works Message-ID: Reply-To: "David Eyre" References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru> <9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 22 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30673 "Adam Finkelstein" wrote in message news:9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com... > > That's fascinating. When does this Linden flow start? Is the honey of high > quality? Little Leaf Linden, Bass Wood, or in the UK Lime trees, mid July in my area of Canada. Produces a delightfully light honey, with a slight green look, with a hint of mint flavour. Worth running around for!! Regards Dave.... ***************************** The Bee Works, 5 Edith Drive, R R # 2, Orillia, ON. Canada. L3V 6H2 705 326 7171 http://www.beeworks.com ***************************** Article 30674 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Provider of Propolis Date: 10 Dec 2001 07:02:57 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 1 Message-ID: <49875365.0112100702.38de0a26@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1007996577 25640 127.0.0.1 (10 Dec 2001 15:02:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Dec 2001 15:02:57 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30674 How large quantites are you talking about and what is the prices out there anyway? Article 30675 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "huestis" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: wire crimper Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:49:54 -0800 Lines: 6 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.23.8.178 Message-ID: <3c150261_1@corp.newsgroups.com> X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1008009825 209.23.8.178 (10 Dec 2001 12:43:45 -0600) X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30675 Where can one get a good wire crimper? As brushy mountain doesn't seem to carry them any more. Clay -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Article 30676 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <3C121D51.51BDE28@atlas.localdomain> From: Louise Adderholdt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: honey candy References: <7b68f573.0111281846.38e991c3@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 X-Trace: /wLwTfHR1itqM00/L/NWOqVNhC7l1yQp4wnpLTZi1YCntXjpNpruoFqd0RZWYD/WXW2MT9jxjpXf!a28h2DaEXDpPWYkKC+yYodjYypw8xVUZowGZbWUtQs1xMnURlazIcyxTyFHbP4MUScK6wLYX X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:05:45 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:05:45 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30676 Lawrence Legg wrote: > > I am interested in knowing if you can make hard candy from honey. > Only thing I have found so far is hard candies from Dadant with a > honey center but these are made from sucrose. Can you heat honey to > the hard crack stage and then make drops from this? I came across an old recipe at the following site: http://www.recipesource.com/desserts/candy/03/rec0304.html I'm going to try it. Louise -- Louise Adderholdt | Extreme justice is extreme injustice. louise.adderholdt@gte.net | -- Latin legal maxim | Article 30677 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Hive scales From: Allen Dick References: <01c17e60$00689a60$8e08f9c2@ppp.arnes.si> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Lines: 26 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:48:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.186 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1007970484 198.161.229.186 (Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:48:04 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:48:04 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!uunet!dca.uu.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30677 "Vincenc Petruna" posted in news:01c17e60$00689a60$8e08f9c2@ppp.arnes.si: > I am looking for elecronic hive scales, with posibility of interfacing > with computer or mobile phone. > I' be glad of any suggestions, adresses, URL's, etc. > > Vincenc Petruna > Beegadgets is a low traffic group dedicated to such questions. Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BeeGadgets/ and join if you like. I sent the above question to the BeeGadgets list and got he following reply: --- A hive scale was demonstrated at the recent Apimondia congress help in Durban. The Exhibitor was Mario Schehle from Pretoria. It seems to work using a cell phone so that you can measure the weight remotely from home, visiting the site only when the weight is such that you know the super is full. You might be able to contact him through the Apimondia2001 website. Anton Schehle his father was responsible for the website I believe. regards Eddy Article 30678 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <3C135F62.8BEA6646@sympatico.ca> From: Mike Romain X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Hive scales References: <01c17e60$00689a60$8e08f9c2@ppp.arnes.si> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:56:02 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.229.209.100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1007902374 64.229.209.100 (Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:52:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:52:54 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30678 Interesting concept. Hmmm... What part of the world are you in? I am a mobile data communications system designer and run a service company in Canada and could tie an electronic scale into one of my wireless transmitters likely. I set up and service fleets of delivery (dispatched) vehicles using RIM (Research in Motion, http://www.rim.net/ hardware to interface HP Palmtops with office networks. A set of electronic scales should be easy to interface with. Give me an email and we can see what your needs are. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Build and Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: (Updated Sept. 05 with Aug. 2001 Canadian Bush Run photos) http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1161190 Vincenc Petruna wrote: > > I am looking for elecronic hive scales, with posibility of interfacing with > computer or mobile phone. > I' be glad of any suggestions, adresses, URL's, etc. > > Vincenc Petruna Article 30679 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "David Eyre" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: wire crimper Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:15:06 -0500 Organization: The Bee Works Message-ID: Reply-To: "David Eyre" References: <3c150261_1@corp.newsgroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!freenix!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30679 "huestis" wrote in message news:3c150261_1@corp.newsgroups.com... > Where can one get a good wire crimper? As brushy mountain doesn't seem to > carry them any more. We have them! If you would care to e-mail off list, tell us where you are and I'll quote you. For those who like something different visit our web site. Regards Dave.... ******************************************** The Bee Works, 5 Edith Drive, R R # 2, Orillia, ON. Canada. L3V 6H2 705 326 7171 http://www.beeworks.com *************************************** Article 30680 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gidombach@at-pharma.com (GiDo) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Provider of Propolis Date: 9 Dec 2001 08:48:40 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 8 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.134.253.96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1007916521 31542 127.0.0.1 (9 Dec 2001 16:48:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Dec 2001 16:48:41 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30680 Hi, I am looking for a export/import company which could provide me with larger quantities of propolis. Is there anyone out there, who can help me with this information? Giz Article 30681 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: newbie beekeeper question Date: 11 Dec 2001 12:23:34 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: <37411287.0112111223.62162ac9@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.25.22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008102214 3091 127.0.0.1 (11 Dec 2001 20:23:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2001 20:23:34 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30681 hi, I'm a new beekeeper in the San Francisco Bay Area. The bees have been living in my backyard for nearly 2 years, but they've only been in a hive for less than a year (they were in a birdhouse before that!). The bees seem healthy. I took a frame (in an observation hive) to my children's school on 7 Nov and brood was hatching then. I also saw a queen cell forming (I've not yet spotted a queen in my hive). My question is regarding ants - should I worry at all about ants invading a hive? audrey ishizaki Article 30682 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Viacheslav Sheveliov" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:03:21 +0300 Organization: COMSTAR Telecommunications Lines: 175 Message-ID: <9v5t72$jov$1@storm.comstar.ru> References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru> <9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d036.p9.col.ru X-Trace: storm.comstar.ru 1008105509 20255 212.248.7.36 (11 Dec 2001 21:18:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@comstar.ru NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2001 21:18:29 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!comstar.ru!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30682 Hi! Sorry for delayed response, I have many work. Adam Finkelstein пишет в сообщении:9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com... > In article <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru>, > Viacheslav Sheveliov wrote: > >Russian bee and lesser - Italian and Korean bees. Actually, this bee strain > >is very heterogeneous. > > Most bee strains are. Bees are selected by man. Most honey bees > are synanthropic--meaning they have changed over time due to direct > interaction or association with humans. May be, but Far Eastern bees was not included in state program of bee zoning in Soviet times, so no breeding work have been done and was no breeding apiaries offering genuine Far Eastern bees/queens. According to state zoning program, central Russian strain was designed for Far East. Still there are discussions about origin of Far Eastern bees. Most researchers agreed that they are originated mostly from Ukrainian bees (Apis mellifera acervorum). In Primorsky region in mid 19-th century was settled with many Ukrainians, and still there are areas in Primorsky region populated mostly with Ukrainians. So, among Far Eastern bees there are families most relative to Ukrainian bees and ones relative to Russian bees (Apis mellifera mellifera). Russian bees are very aggressive, Ukrainian are less, so bees described by Steve seems are more relative to Russian bees or they are pure central Russian bees. OK, I stop my amateur reasoning and give citation from serious book (sorry for my terrible English) ============================== Bilash G.D., Krivtsov N.I. Breeding of honey bees. - Moscow, Agropromizdat, 1991 - 304 pp. ISBN 5-10-001701-5 Pages 83-85 ----------------- Far Eastern Bees. Those bees can and should be classified as primitive strain, however officially they are not accepted as a strain, despite there are no any serious reason against such decision. They populate territory of Chitinsky, Amursky, Khabarovsky and Primorsky regions, where Far Eastern bee formed as primitive strain from the end of 19-th century till present times as result of excursive crosses of bees introduced by frontiersmen mostly of Ukrainian strain, less - central Russian strain, lesser - yellow and gray Caucasian strain and much lesser - Italian strain, and also as result of natural and artificial selection. As result of heterogeneous origin Far Eastern bees differ from other strains by greater amplitude of variability, however according main characteristics quite answer to conditions of primitive strain (array of specific features, their stabile inheritance from generation to generation, great number of families, which exclude probability of relative crosses in big scale and so on). V.V. Stasevich (1913), known specialist of Far Eastern bee-keeping, considered that Far Eastern bees are product of successful combination of central Russian and Ukrainian bees in conditions of Primorsky region. V. Grudnov (1913) reported, that in Amursky region settlers introduced central Russian bees from Altay, from Perm and Voronezh regions, Ukrainian bees - from Poltava region, and Caucasian bees (most probably, yellow ones) - from northern Caucasus. Caucasian bees badly hibernated here, they was very swarmed (up to 4 swarms, and sometimes 7-8 swarms per family during summer), but was outstanding by honey production. Prominent personality of Far Eastern bee-keeping, one of the founder of Dalpcheltrest G.F. Muryi denoted, that in the Far East gray Caucasian bees was also introduced as well as queens of Italian strain (included ones from Australia). Body of Far Eastern bees is bit smaller than body of central Russian bees. By coloring they divided to pure gray and with yellow stripes on first 2-3 sternites. Size of proboscis is 6.1-6.8 mm. Weight of one day old bee is near 105 mg, queen not laying eggs is 180, laying eggs queen is 230 mg. Bees are moderately defensive (notably less defensive that central Russian bees), more enterprising in finding of food sources and bit sooner switch from worse to better nectar sources (less enterprising, than Caucasian bees). Inclination to honey stealing is moderate. Propolising of hives is light. Cell capping is different - from white through several transitional forms to dark. Cases of "quiet" changing or coexistence of queens are very rarely observed. Well resist to wax moth. Light honey production don't limit, but increase young production. At period of main honey productions bees store honey uniformly - in brood part and in supers. Far Eastern bees are good in hibernating, resistant to Nosema apis, toxicosis from non-floral honey _(what is right English terminology?)_, European foulbrood, but slightly cedes in those characteristics to central Russian bees, and exceed bees of southern strains. Spring development of families begins relatively early and proceeds intensively, however egg production of queens is not high (in the range of 1100-1600 eggs per day, rarely it is 1700-1800). A.P. Volosevich showed, that number of egg tubes and productivity of Ukrainian queens was slightly higher (6.3 and 8.4% respectively), than ones of Far Eastern queens. Supposedly, that decreasing of those characteristics of Far Eastern bees is explained by influence of Caucasian strain (both gray and yellow ones), which productivity remarkably low comparing to central Russian and Ukrainian bees. Probably, thus in Far East splits are widely used, without them over there almost impossible to get big bee families by the time of main honey production. Far Eastern bees quite prune to swarming, but remarkably less than central Russian bees. Before main honey production time up to 50% of families can be in swarm conditions, best way to reduce it is forming of splits. Number of queen cells is differ from 4 to 150, as a rule, gray bees builds less queen cells and less prune to swarming than yellow ones. Far Eastern bees are outstanding in seldom capability to very effectively use strong, exuberant nectar production from linden: accidents described, when family brings during a daytime up to 30-32 kg of nectar, and collects during season (together with отводок) up to 300 kg of honey. Wax productivity of Far Eastern bees is slightly less, than wax productivity of central Russian and remarkably higher than wax productivity of Caucasian bees. Based on multiannual experiments (V.S. Koptev) was established, that Far Eastern bees and their F1 crosses in West Siberian conditions and in conditions of some European regions of Russia collected more honey, than endogenous central Russian bees; in conditions of Adygea - more, than endogenous Kuban bees (S.V. Aref'ev); in Ukraine - more, than families of Ukrainian bees, however ceded them in quantity of young production (A.P. Volosevich). Those bees are rich heterogeneous material for further effective breeding for productivity and other qualities. Long ago have been raised a question about granting them official status of primitive strain. Origin and complex of characteristics, characterizing this group of bees, occupying territory and number of families (several hundreds of thousands), more than earnestly says for such decision. Motivating, according which it was not done earlier and which consists in argument that Far Eastern bees are nothing more than pure descendants of Ukrainian bees, cant stands against any critics. ============================== > >Honey production of Far Eastern bees have been formed in conditions of rich > >nectar sources, mostly from linden, and can do well in such conditions. > >In Primorsky region there are 3 main species of linden with successive > >flowering one month long and Far Eastern bees usually produce 50-100 kg of > >honey. > > That's fascinating. When does this Linden flow start? Is the honey of high > quality? When me and my father visiting my father's school friend near Vladivostok, he complained that ha had no time to take care of bees, to expand haves, he lost several swarms and collected "only 30 kg" per have :-) Honey I eaten was fresh and very aromatic. it seems, that honey lost aroma during extraction. In general linden honey is my favorite. Nowadays Far Eastern and Bashkirian beekeepers fill Russian market with cheap linden honey, which make unprofitable beekeeping in many other regions. Lindens, wich grow in Russian Far East are Tilia taquetii, T. amurensis and T. mandshurica. They bloom from begining to end of July. Less valuable are T. komarovii, T. koreana, T. tomentosa. Linden gives good nectar production at the same place every second year. There is a method of prediction of linden nectar production accordingly with oil content inbranches. > Adam > -- > Adam Finkelstein > adamf@panix.com > http://www.ibiblio.org/bees/adamf Article 30683 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 9 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 11 Dec 2001 23:07:41 GMT References: <37411287.0112111223.62162ac9@posting.google.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: newbie beekeeper question Message-ID: <20011211180741.12747.00001810@mb-cp.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30683 Audrey in the tropics they make hive stands with legs which they place in oil filled cans. I don't like the idea of oil slopping out but I bet soapy water would work too. Article 30684 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: newbie beekeeper question Message-ID: References: <37411287.0112111223.62162ac9@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:02:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.33.105.14 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008165747 4.33.105.14 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:02:27 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:02:27 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:02:29 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30684 audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) wrote: >My question is regarding ants - should I worry at all about ants >invading a hive? Bees can normally defend against mild ant problems. However, ants can be a problem if the colony is already weak from some other cause or in extreme infestations. Here in Texas, we have fire ants and it is usually sufficient to keep hives off the ground 6 inches or more. I use landscaping timbers on top of cement blocks. A friend once lost a few hives to ants following a flood that forced many fire ant colonies to seek the safety of high ground around his hives. Other than that, no serious problems. The tiny ants that are sometimes found behind walls of propolis are normally not a significant problem. Use caution with ant killers, so as not to kill the bees too! John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas, USA http://www.outdoorplace.org/beekeeping Article 30685 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 2 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: potents@aol.com (POTENTS) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 12 Dec 2001 16:11:31 GMT Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: bees for sale Message-ID: <20011212111131.15008.00001875@mb-da.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!oleane.net!oleane!teaser.fr!proxad.net!skynet.be!skynet.be!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30685 any uk beekeepers or prospective beekeepers looking to buy bees for next year. please email me Article 30686 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "David R Carlson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Plans for those who like to build their own equipment Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:02:39 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Reply-To: "David R Carlson" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30686 Came acros this site that has tons of plans that you can down-load and or order from. If you look under misc you will find several plans for Hives, solar melter etc. It's part of the North Dakota State University and the USDA. http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans/ If you Know of any other sites let me know. Thanks Dave Carlson Redding, CA Article 30687 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Bas Brouwer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Some information for high school thesis Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:23:33 +0100 Organization: Kabelfoon B.V. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3C18F225.5D4E99C7@Kabelfoon.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: kf-mss-fp01-210.dial.kabelfoon.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.kabelfoon.nl 1008267999 61719 62.45.32.210 (13 Dec 2001 18:26:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@kabelfoon.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:26:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [nl] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: nl Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.skycache.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!newsfeed2.kabelfoon.nl!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30687 L.S. To graduate high school in the Netherlands, Dutch students have to write a thesis. I chose bees as a subject. I've been searching for information for a couple of months now, but I haven't found any information on some important subjects. I hope you can answer them. - Why and whereby do bees swarm? - Why and whereby do bees (while swarming, and during the winter) get aggressive and attack the male bees, so that the male bees can't come in anymore? It is an extensive research, so the information I need can't just be found in a book from a library. Thank you in advance, - Angelina Kats Article 30688 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Lines: 101 Organization: Productive Solutions X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:21:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.81.129.19 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1008289267 12.81.129.19 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:21:07 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:21:07 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30688 We have known for a long time that the eastern honeybee (Apis cerana) has resistance but this is not due to anything the Chinese have done. It is the result of co-evolution and other factors such as a shorter egg-to-emergence cycle. The article mentions "China has eight major races of honeybees - New Zealand one". Well NZ may have one species, but certainly there are many races within that species. Nowhere in the article are the 4 species mentioned, nor is it claimed that the resistant bee in China is Apis mellifera because the author simply did not do any research that is apparent in the text. Poorly presented information. -- Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@att.net To respond via email, get the "L" out of there "Carmen" wrote in message news:9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz... > Greetings All > An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which > may bee of interest. > :) > (Please see below) > It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has > eliminated the effects of varroa with > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information > about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie > productivity, temperament etc. > Anyone have any thoughts? > > THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, > Edition 3, Page 6. > Bee answer lies in China > > THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, especially since the > knowledge economy supposedly welcomes new ideas. (The reality is that people > do not want change and prefer to shoot pioneers.) > > The beekeeping industry is the basic epitome of New Zealand society, with 90 > percent of beekeepers living in towns and each owning fewer than 10 hives, > mainly in country areas. New Zealand has one major race of honey bees and no > fresh genetic stock has been imported in living memory. Instead, we have > erected all kinds of costly barriers which are as effective as the actions > of King Canute. > > At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New Zealand > beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all > reference to Asia, except Vietnam. > > That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods > and research facilities receives not a mention in the MAF handbook is > justified by MAF as being because China has not put its information on the > Internet in English. > > China has eight major races of honeybees - New Zealand one. China has > eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees > from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes > over. > > When, two years ago, I suggested this, MAF's reply was that the idea had > merit but that the suggestion should come from the bee industry. > > My own experience of the bee industry is that welcoming new ideas predates > the Treaty Of Waitangi and that the majority are lovely people who have > their main income not in beekeeping. > > It is up to MAF to give leadership - as it once did. The present beekeeping > industry is incapable of innovation and demands handouts so that it can > continue its outdated and failed ways. With fresh stocks available under MAF > control, beekeepers would have a choice - adapt or perish. They are going to > perish anyway with present methods. > > GRAEHAM GAISFORD > > Levin RD > > ╘ Wellington Newspapers Limited 2001, All rights reserved. > > > > > Article 30689 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Ulli Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Some information for high school thesis Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:37:15 -0400 Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3C1A008B.46524E79@hotmail.com> References: <3C18F225.5D4E99C7@Kabelfoon.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: afrench-08.bp.dal.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: News.Dal.Ca 1008337037 9897 129.173.88.206 (14 Dec 2001 13:37:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@Dal.Ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:37:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!News.Dal.Ca!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30689 The know-how to answer your questions is pretty basic knowledge, and can be found in books. Honey bees are extensively studied and there is a lot of information. Maybe the local public library has not stocked those books, but larger ones should have them. Check out Wilson's "Insect Societies", and look for names like Karl von Frisch and Lindauer to start with.. It's your thesis, and you should do the work. Also how would you quote information you gather here, that someone could check the accuracy? Ulli Bas Brouwer wrote: > L.S. > > To graduate high school in the Netherlands, Dutch students have to write > a thesis. I chose bees as a subject. I've been searching for information > for a couple of months now, but I haven't found any information on some > important subjects. I hope you can answer them. > > - Why and whereby do bees swarm? > - Why and whereby do bees (while swarming, and during the winter) get > aggressive and attack the male bees, so that the male bees can't come in > anymore? > > It is an extensive research, so the information I need can't just be > found in a book from a library. > > Thank you in advance, > - Angelina Kats Article 30690 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "David A." <##daaple@home.com> Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3C18F225.5D4E99C7@Kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: Some information for high school thesis Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:54:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.248.135.205 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.nash1.tn.home.com 1008352470 24.248.135.205 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:54:30 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:54:30 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.nash1.tn.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30690 Hello Bas Have you used Google or any search engine to get this info? Try this site for a start. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~awcannon/swarms.htm David A. Bas Brouwer wrote in message news:3C18F225.5D4E99C7@Kabelfoon.nl... > L.S. > > To graduate high school in the Netherlands, Dutch students have to write > a thesis. I chose bees as a subject. I've been searching for information > for a couple of months now, but I haven't found any information on some > important subjects. I hope you can answer them. > > - Why and whereby do bees swarm? > - Why and whereby do bees (while swarming, and during the winter) get > aggressive and attack the male bees, so that the male bees can't come in > anymore? > > It is an extensive research, so the information I need can't just be > found in a book from a library. > > Thank you in advance, > - Angelina Kats Article 30691 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Tom S" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Reversing boxes/swapping frames in winter Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:40:13 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 42 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30691 Hello everyone, Today I was out removing Apistan strips from some of my hives (At exactly 45 days--so, yes, I got them in late). I decided to reverse the brood boxes of three of them (out of 22 hives) because the bees had migrated up past the grease patty and were all in the top box. As I remember the vacant boxes were empty or near empty of stores. These were all smallish (3-4 frames of bees) hives. Reversing boxes seemed to me to be the same procedure as I would normally do in the spring time, and it would encourage them to take advantage of the grease patty during the colder weather. Then I got to thinking....a dangerous thing sometimes. Maybe it's a bad idea to reverse those brood boxes at this time of year because the bees need to be as near the warm top of the hive as possible to minimize their stress. Our winters here in the Puget Sound (Seattle and vicinity) area are fairly mild. We have had only one freezing night this year, as far as I know, and the days are in the forties and fifties still. But January and February could see some freezing weather. So what do you think? Should I have reversed those boxes or not? I figured it would help them out, but how many times has a beekeeper's help ended up setting back or killing a hive.... Maybe I should have reduced them to just one box, but I wasn't sure but what they might have other stores, i.e pollen in the "light" box and didn't want to keep the hives open any longer than absolutely necessary. I recognize now that I have thought about it, that if I need to feed them (likely), that will be a little more difficult. On a related topic, does anyone out there selectively move the honey frames within or between the brood boxes as they're doing winter inspections? I've heard varied opinions on whether it's best to let the bees manage their honey stores on their own, or swapping full honey frames in from the sides to the center helps them out. I'm a little concerned about keeping the hives open long enough to do this manipulation, so it would have to limited to the possibility of a warm(er) winter's day. Still learning, Tom Monroe, WA Article 30692 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Tighe Smalley" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bees FS, central NY Lines: 7 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:39:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.58.52.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 1008383948 24.58.52.49 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:39:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:39:08 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!cyclone-out.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30692 13 colonies, Carniolan & Weaver All-American. Double broods, well provisioned for winter. Will sell as singles or all together. VG equipment. email n1aep@yahoo.com or call 607.347.4335 Article 30693 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:32:48 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p7.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30693 On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:06 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: > >Dave Andrews wrote in message >news:9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz... >> >> "Carmen" wrote in message >> news:9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz... >> >> >> Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper >salt >> in it kills the mites. >> > > >I have also read about copper, >"blue organic cupric salt Copper Gluconate" >to be exact. > >Regards >Carmen > > Have you heard of PH3? It is my understanding that this is what the russians are using for varroa control. beekeep Article 30694 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 7 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: wskriba@aol.com (WSkriba) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 16 Dec 2001 14:32:18 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Package Bees to Michigan Message-ID: <20011216093218.25737.00000959@mb-fi.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30694 Was wondering if anyone on the list could put me in touch with someone who will be bringing package bees (2# or 3#) from the south this spring to Michigan or close by, as shipping costs are prohibitive. I would be interested in 25 packages. Bill Skriba Ithaca, MI Article 30695 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 3 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: billshsfrm@aol.com (BillsHsFrm) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 16 Dec 2001 16:06:46 GMT References: <20011216093218.25737.00000959@mb-fi.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Package Bees to Michigan Message-ID: <20011216110646.06573.00000457@mb-mk.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30695 Bill Ive heard of Ithaca, but not sure of location. In Onstead Michigan is Groeb Farms Bee Supply. Thats where Ive bought my packages Phone # 517-467-2065 Hope this helps Bill Jaddatz Beginning beekeeper Article 30696 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Drones colony duties Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:39:30 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9vf4ip$am$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p116.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008407961 342 203.96.192.116 (15 Dec 2001 09:19:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 09:19:21 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30696 Cara & Tom Patterson wrote in message news:lhcl1u4iu162j022rv7aonrorptdef061b@4ax.com... > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:57:53 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: > > > >Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells me > >that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of > >drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have more > >colony duties then are currently known by many. > > > >Indeed ! > > > >Carmen > > > I am one of the many. Would you kindly share some of their colony duties? > > TIA Apparently they make the family happier and participate in the orientation of young field bees :) Carmen Article 30697 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:06 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p116.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008407962 342 203.96.192.116 (15 Dec 2001 09:19:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 09:19:22 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30697 Dave Andrews wrote in message news:9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz... > > "Carmen" wrote in message > news:9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz... > > > Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper salt > in it kills the mites. > I have also read about copper, "blue organic cupric salt Copper Gluconate" to be exact. Regards Carmen Article 30698 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:31:22 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 47 Message-ID: <9vir1q$1m3$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p25.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008529274 1731 203.96.192.153 (16 Dec 2001 19:01:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 19:01:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30698 Hi Gavin I am also a hobby beekeeper, many thanks for your comments and the website reference, it is very interesting. I am forwarding your comments to our national exec for their perusal. Arohanui Carmen Gavin Ramsay wrote in message news:9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > My personal opinion of USDA is that it should be abolished. It does > > > little for us that private industry couldn't do. It is comprised > > > mostly of gov't workers that are only interested in payday and the > > > retirement. If we commercial beekeepers relied on them to save us we > > > would all starve to death. > > > > I guess Govt workers with little or no actual hands on experience in > > Apiculture ? > > For anyone that really believes that criticism above, can I ask you to spend > 5 min looking around this Web site? > > http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/projects.htm > > I have a lot of respect for the hands-on, far-sighted and effective bee > researchers in the USDA. Within just a few years US queen breeders have in > their hands something approaching the answer to Varroa. Both Russian > resistant stock and SMR bees selected from bees already in the States. > Hand-in-hand, the beekeeping industry and USDA - helping move to a > chemical-free future for beekeeping. Do you really have a problem with > that?! > > Gavin. > > Scientist (though not a bee researcher) and hobby beekeeper, Scotland. > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/4/01 > > Article 30699 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:37:58 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p20.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30699 On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:25:12 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: >Greetings All >An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which >may bee of interest. >:) >(Please see below) >It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has >eliminated the effects of varroa with >varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > >Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information >about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie >productivity, temperament etc. >Anyone have any thoughts? Russia has been dealing with this mite for many years as well. I have heard from a russian that they use a chemical called PH3 for varroa control. I have asked some of the experts about this but no one seems to have ever heard about it. One would think that the first place USDA would have looked for control methods would have been China and Russa. Being that this may have reduced the amount of research required seems to me to be the reason it was never looked into. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't put it past the USDA researchers to have imported the mites! Sure you can trust our government, ask any Native American. beekeep Article 30700 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Patrick Dugan" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee packages in Missouri USA Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:25:53 -0600 Organization: netINS, Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <9vj3h4$vd0$1@ins22.netins.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: snca-01-173.dialup.netins.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.netins.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30700 I live in southwestern Missouri. Are there any places that sell bee packages in that area? I am going to start with two hives (2 - 3# packages.) Also when should you order and expect delivery for the area I'm in? Any good online sites for purchasing bee packages? Article 30701 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:30:20 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p18.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30701 On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:55:24 -0000, "Gavin Ramsay" wrote: >> > My personal opinion of USDA is that it should be abolished. It does >> > little for us that private industry couldn't do. It is comprised >> > mostly of gov't workers that are only interested in payday and the >> > retirement. If we commercial beekeepers relied on them to save us we >> > would all starve to death. >> >> I guess Govt workers with little or no actual hands on experience in >> Apiculture ? > >For anyone that really believes that criticism above, can I ask you to spend >5 min looking around this Web site? > >http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/projects.htm > >I have a lot of respect for the hands-on, far-sighted and effective bee >researchers in the USDA. Within just a few years US queen breeders have in >their hands something approaching the answer to Varroa. Both Russian >resistant stock and SMR bees selected from bees already in the States. >Hand-in-hand, the beekeeping industry and USDA - helping move to a >chemical-free future for beekeeping. Do you really have a problem with >that?! > >Gavin. > No I don't. But one must look at the other side of the coin as well. Bees exisit in this country that tolerate varroa. I personally watched a colony servive for 3 years with varroa and couldn't get USDA to even look at them. There are far more paychecks in quarantining bees off the coast than using those that are here. If there were no USDA and the laws that go along with it the russian bee semen would have been brought in years ago. Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone developed a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever released? NO. Several years and a whole lot of tax dollars working with formic acid. Do we have it availible? NO. Sure they can say we are doing this or that, but if they don't deliver a product what use are they? Ten years ago the wonder bee was the Yugo bee that they cost us millions to import. So what's your point? Private industry can do it cheaper and better. beekeep Article 30702 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Paul Harper" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re Thesis Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:33:41 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 5 Message-ID: <9vfn01$ddr$1@paris.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-181-161.btinternet.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1008426821 13755 213.122.181.161 (15 Dec 2001 14:33:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@paris.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:33:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!easynet-monga!easynet-melon!easynet.net!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30702 If you can get hold of a copy of Encyclopaedia of Beekeeping edited by Professor Roger Morse and Ted Hooper that will give you a start on the subjects your interested in Article 30703 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Me" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Lines: 98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:54:46 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-tYaum4Hahjv5P11X5EibRuRchuiYk7QZYMHiI/UJZHSua9pp7nuMyw+fAGCBC4SM6IxcuyMoBdc3fzt!1JCUE7y5Pyj3Q3uTexcZCAY7AKfzj4VCF4kKiUgLq/WTrlHucKoIAUzp3/lIkuvjJG+SKAHu7UEz!udSUuIdIBZBSaysHcyQH X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:54:46 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30703 Look here: http://www.wsbee.com/english/company/company.htm -- Mark If what you're doing seems too hard..., You're probably doing it wrong. :-) "Carmen" wrote in message news:9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz... > Greetings All > An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which > may bee of interest. > :) > (Please see below) > It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has > eliminated the effects of varroa with > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information > about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie > productivity, temperament etc. > Anyone have any thoughts? > > THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, > Edition 3, Page 6. > Bee answer lies in China > > THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, especially since the > knowledge economy supposedly welcomes new ideas. (The reality is that people > do not want change and prefer to shoot pioneers.) > > The beekeeping industry is the basic epitome of New Zealand society, with 90 > percent of beekeepers living in towns and each owning fewer than 10 hives, > mainly in country areas. New Zealand has one major race of honey bees and no > fresh genetic stock has been imported in living memory. Instead, we have > erected all kinds of costly barriers which are as effective as the actions > of King Canute. > > At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New Zealand > beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all > reference to Asia, except Vietnam. > > That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods > and research facilities receives not a mention in the MAF handbook is > justified by MAF as being because China has not put its information on the > Internet in English. > > China has eight major races of honeybees - New Zealand one. China has > eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees > from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes > over. > > When, two years ago, I suggested this, MAF's reply was that the idea had > merit but that the suggestion should come from the bee industry. > > My own experience of the bee industry is that welcoming new ideas predates > the Treaty Of Waitangi and that the majority are lovely people who have > their main income not in beekeeping. > > It is up to MAF to give leadership - as it once did. The present beekeeping > industry is incapable of innovation and demands handouts so that it can > continue its outdated and failed ways. With fresh stocks available under MAF > control, beekeepers would have a choice - adapt or perish. They are going to > perish anyway with present methods. > > GRAEHAM GAISFORD > > Levin RD > > ╘ Wellington Newspapers Limited 2001, All rights reserved. > > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 - Release Date: 12/11/2001 Article 30704 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Package Bees to Michigan Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:00:57 -0600 Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <20011216093218.25737.00000959@mb-fi.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY091LBMUdu7NnvkN5JMswJGyrkoiLSeuX62vtQ4f0/N/PeC/I+sNzb X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 00:01:07 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30704 Contact Jack Griffes. http://griffes.tripod.com/ jack_griffes@hotmail.com > Was wondering if anyone on the list could put me in touch with someone who > will > be bringing package bees (2# or 3#) from the south this spring to Michigan or > close by, as shipping costs are prohibitive. I would be interested in 25 > packages. > > Bill Skriba > Ithaca, MI Article 30705 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Me" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Lines: 94 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:15:22 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-4GG9Eg+KeGOFys45o2D0Ub6lXbc/amP93cITWIZXToGWtouv3dLs+nF+MgRWyTwWOSHf07jwwoi5Icd!0Yfx5Xw7AQXiua6PUx4O1wWNEFaBda7WhfMhMdqVkmkZbiYCAtwWsZW6wvjzBqAPhHjRUkffnhmI!9IT3A4L6FSmi5FizvA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:15:22 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30705 Now Look here: http://www.caas.net.cn/bee/manpu.html Mark -- Horse sense is just stable thinking. "Carmen" wrote in message news:9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz... > Greetings All > An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which > may bee of interest. > :) > (Please see below) > It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has > eliminated the effects of varroa with > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information > about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie > productivity, temperament etc. > Anyone have any thoughts? > > THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, > Edition 3, Page 6. > Bee answer lies in China > > THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, especially since the > knowledge economy supposedly welcomes new ideas. (The reality is that people > do not want change and prefer to shoot pioneers.) > > The beekeeping industry is the basic epitome of New Zealand society, with 90 > percent of beekeepers living in towns and each owning fewer than 10 hives, > mainly in country areas. New Zealand has one major race of honey bees and no > fresh genetic stock has been imported in living memory. Instead, we have > erected all kinds of costly barriers which are as effective as the actions > of King Canute. > > At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New Zealand > beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all > reference to Asia, except Vietnam. > > That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods > and research facilities receives not a mention in the MAF handbook is > justified by MAF as being because China has not put its information on the > Internet in English. > > China has eight major races of honeybees - New Zealand one. China has > eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees > from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes > over. > > When, two years ago, I suggested this, MAF's reply was that the idea had > merit but that the suggestion should come from the bee industry. > > My own experience of the bee industry is that welcoming new ideas predates > the Treaty Of Waitangi and that the majority are lovely people who have > their main income not in beekeeping. > > It is up to MAF to give leadership - as it once did. The present beekeeping > industry is incapable of innovation and demands handouts so that it can > continue its outdated and failed ways. With fresh stocks available under MAF > control, beekeepers would have a choice - adapt or perish. They are going to > perish anyway with present methods. > > GRAEHAM GAISFORD > > Levin RD > > ╘ Wellington Newspapers Limited 2001, All rights reserved. > > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 - Release Date: 12/11/2001 Article 30706 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 8 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 15 Dec 2001 14:57:47 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Reversing boxes/swapping frames in winter Message-ID: <20011215095747.13542.00000285@mb-fq.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!80.65.228.52.MISMATCH!deine.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30706 Put some feed on the hives they sound light to me if the bees are all in the top. Article 30707 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Истомин" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.fruit,sci.agriculture.poultry,sci.agriculture.ratites,ukr.commerce,ukr.commerce.auto Subject: Запчасти для автотракторной и сельскохозяйственной техники Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:32:02 +0300 Organization: user from ELVISTI Lines: 43 Message-ID: <9vcb1l$18ab$10@app0.visti.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.64.233.127 X-Trace: app0.visti.net 1008316277 41291 195.64.233.127 (14 Dec 2001 07:51:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@app0.visti.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 07:51:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!carrier.kiev.ua!horse.lucky.net!info.elvisti.kiev.ua!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30707 sci.agriculture.fruit:4076 sci.agriculture.poultry:33202 sci.agriculture.ratites:1767 УВАЖАЕМЫЕ ГОСПОДА!!! Вашему вниманию предлагаем, по низким ценам, запасные части для > автотракторной техники и сельскохозяйственных машин в ассортименте: > - распределители гидравлические; > - насос НШ всех модификаций; > - гидроцилиндры; > - турбокомпрессора; > - топливные насосы; > - пара плунжерная; > - рукова высокого давления; > - рулевое управление; > - сцепление; > - пустовые двигатели (комплектующие к ним); > - водяние насосы; > - комплектующие КПП и многое другое. > РЕМКОМПЛЕКТЫ. > Также производим ремонт: топливной системы, гидравлической системы, > турбокомпрессоров. > При ремонте топливной аппаратуры происходит замена всех изношенных > изделий на новые качественные. Ставим только сертифицированный товар при > замене. > Ремонтируя гидрораспределители, производим напыление золотника с > последующей шлифовкой. > Ремонтируя гидроцилиндры всегда производим замену штока на новый. > Турбокомпрессора обкатываем на проверочном стенде, поэтому даём 100% > гарантию. > Действуют гибкие системы скидок для оптовых покупателей. > Полный ассортимент нашей продукции Вы можете получить по > нашему E-mail: avantag@visti.com и тел/факс: (044) 249-69-05. > > С уважением, > > Директор > ИСТОМИН В.В. > > > Article 30708 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Истомин" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.fruit,sci.agriculture.poultry,sci.agriculture.ratites,ukr.commerce,ukr.commerce.auto Subject: Запчасти для автотракторной и сельскохозяйственной техники Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:32:09 +0300 Organization: user from ELVISTI Lines: 43 Message-ID: <9vcb1p$18ab$11@app0.visti.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.64.233.127 X-Trace: app0.visti.net 1008316281 41291 195.64.233.127 (14 Dec 2001 07:51:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@app0.visti.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 07:51:21 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!carrier.kiev.ua!horse.lucky.net!info.elvisti.kiev.ua!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30708 sci.agriculture.fruit:4077 sci.agriculture.poultry:33203 sci.agriculture.ratites:1768 УВАЖАЕМЫЕ ГОСПОДА!!! Вашему вниманию предлагаем, по низким ценам, запасные части для > автотракторной техники и сельскохозяйственных машин в ассортименте: > - распределители гидравлические; > - насос НШ всех модификаций; > - гидроцилиндры; > - турбокомпрессора; > - топливные насосы; > - пара плунжерная; > - рукова высокого давления; > - рулевое управление; > - сцепление; > - пустовые двигатели (комплектующие к ним); > - водяние насосы; > - комплектующие КПП и многое другое. > РЕМКОМПЛЕКТЫ. > Также производим ремонт: топливной системы, гидравлической системы, > турбокомпрессоров. > При ремонте топливной аппаратуры происходит замена всех изношенных > изделий на новые качественные. Ставим только сертифицированный товар при > замене. > Ремонтируя гидрораспределители, производим напыление золотника с > последующей шлифовкой. > Ремонтируя гидроцилиндры всегда производим замену штока на новый. > Турбокомпрессора обкатываем на проверочном стенде, поэтому даём 100% > гарантию. > Действуют гибкие системы скидок для оптовых покупателей. > Полный ассортимент нашей продукции Вы можете получить по > нашему E-mail: avantag@visti.com и тел/факс: (044) 249-69-05. > > С уважением, > > Директор > ИСТОМИН В.В. > > > Article 30709 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <3C1D70FF.70002@verizon.net> From: Marc Wachter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: New Jersey Bee Packages or Nucs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:13:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.150.206.13 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1008562418 141.150.206.13 (Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:13:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:13:38 EST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30709 Hi, I was looking for anyone who was having packages brought into NJ this spring or was willing to sell nucs or splits. I am located in South Jersey. Thanks Marc Wachter Article 30710 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Bill Hughes" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Colonies Wanted Lines: 5 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <%MlT7.3506$sG5.607952067@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.254.136.236 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr15.news.prodigy.com 1008593083 ST000 63.254.136.236 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:44:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:44:43 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: OXQC@MCAGK]UAFH[\ZHL_RH@LZOZ@GXOXR]ZMVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:44:43 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr15.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30710 Want to purchase colonies and/or equipment in west TN, north MS, or east AR. Bill Hughes Article 30711 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:25:12 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 69 Message-ID: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p75.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008262666 29722 203.96.192.203 (13 Dec 2001 16:57:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 16:57:46 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.uwa.edu.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30711 Greetings All An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which may bee of interest. :) (Please see below) It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has eliminated the effects of varroa with varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie productivity, temperament etc. Anyone have any thoughts? THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, Edition 3, Page 6. Bee answer lies in China THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, especially since the knowledge economy supposedly welcomes new ideas. (The reality is that people do not want change and prefer to shoot pioneers.) The beekeeping industry is the basic epitome of New Zealand society, with 90 percent of beekeepers living in towns and each owning fewer than 10 hives, mainly in country areas. New Zealand has one major race of honey bees and no fresh genetic stock has been imported in living memory. Instead, we have erected all kinds of costly barriers which are as effective as the actions of King Canute. At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New Zealand beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all reference to Asia, except Vietnam. That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods and research facilities receives not a mention in the MAF handbook is justified by MAF as being because China has not put its information on the Internet in English. China has eight major races of honeybees - New Zealand one. China has eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes over. When, two years ago, I suggested this, MAF's reply was that the idea had merit but that the suggestion should come from the bee industry. My own experience of the bee industry is that welcoming new ideas predates the Treaty Of Waitangi and that the majority are lovely people who have their main income not in beekeeping. It is up to MAF to give leadership - as it once did. The present beekeeping industry is incapable of innovation and demands handouts so that it can continue its outdated and failed ways. With fresh stocks available under MAF control, beekeepers would have a choice - adapt or perish. They are going to perish anyway with present methods. GRAEHAM GAISFORD Levin RD ╘ Wellington Newspapers Limited 2001, All rights reserved. Article 30712 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Honey gets research nod Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:26:22 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 49 Message-ID: <9vammb$t0q$2@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p75.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008262667 29722 203.96.192.203 (13 Dec 2001 16:57:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 16:57:47 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.stealth.net!216.227.56.88.MISMATCH!telocity-west!TELOCITY!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30712 Hello The following was emailed to me, concerning scientific research about honey, I found it interesting and it may be of interest to others THE DOMINION, 8 DEC 2001, Edition 2, Page 18. Spoonful of honey gets research nod By: CARPINTER Bernard TAKING a spoonful of honey to cure a sore throat may be just as effective as using using modern medicines, a university research student has shown. Vanessa Anderson, of Waikato University, observed that honey was a traditional remedy for sore throats, and set out to see whether it really worked on the bacterium Streptococcus pyogenes that causes sore throats. She tested rewarewa and manuka honey on the bacteria, and found that in the presence of saliva they were as effective as two out of three commercial throat lozenges. "Rewarewa honey has an activity due to hydrogen peroxide produced in an enzymic reaction, and manuka honey has a unique phytochemical antibacterial component," Ms Anderson said. Her findings were presented at the Molecules for Life scientific conference, held in Napier this week, which featured research on natural products. More findings on manuka honey were presented by Melanie Snow and Merilyn Manley-Harris, also from Waikato University. They said this honey's antibacterial properties were well known, but no complete explanation had yet been demonstrated. That mystery remains, as their research tended to discredit two explanations offered earlier, but they did not come up with a new one. George Slim, of Industrial Research in Lower Hutt, and Paul Davis, from the Wellington School of Medicine, presented a paper on natural remedies for arthritis. A number of such remedies based on carbohydrates were available and clinical trials indicated that some were effective, they said. The two researchers reported on the structures of some of these materials, and offered explanations as to how they worked. ╘ Wellington Newspapers Limited 2001, All rights reserved. Article 30713 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Honey Research Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:27:31 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9vammc$t0q$3@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p75.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008262668 29722 203.96.192.203 (13 Dec 2001 16:57:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 16:57:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.uwa.edu.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30713 Interesting research being carried out on Honey in our region refer :- http://honey.bio.waikato.ac.nz/contents.shtml I particularly refer to the section called :- 'Honey as an antimicrobial agent' Carmen Article 30714 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Gavin Ramsay" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:55:24 -0000 Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3461.leopard.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 1008503724 12447 217.135.157.133 (16 Dec 2001 11:55:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 11:55:24 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30714 > > My personal opinion of USDA is that it should be abolished. It does > > little for us that private industry couldn't do. It is comprised > > mostly of gov't workers that are only interested in payday and the > > retirement. If we commercial beekeepers relied on them to save us we > > would all starve to death. > > I guess Govt workers with little or no actual hands on experience in > Apiculture ? For anyone that really believes that criticism above, can I ask you to spend 5 min looking around this Web site? http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/projects.htm I have a lot of respect for the hands-on, far-sighted and effective bee researchers in the USDA. Within just a few years US queen breeders have in their hands something approaching the answer to Varroa. Both Russian resistant stock and SMR bees selected from bees already in the States. Hand-in-hand, the beekeeping industry and USDA - helping move to a chemical-free future for beekeeping. Do you really have a problem with that?! Gavin. Scientist (though not a bee researcher) and hobby beekeeper, Scotland. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/4/01 Article 30715 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:36:20 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p9.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30715 On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:55:15 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: > >beekeep wrote in message >news:3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net... >snip >> >> Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone developed >> a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever released? NO. > >ahem >I hope you don't mind me enquiring >but would you happen to have any idea what that was ? > >:) >Carmen > 75% Thymol 16% Eucaliptus Oil 4.5% Camphor 4.5% Menthol This was applied on florist sponges in the hives. IIRC 99.9% kill rate. I use it every year in August and back it up with fluvalinate the end of October for the past 7 years or so. I have seen no resistance yet. beekeep beekeep Article 30716 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:55:15 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p65.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008584687 15286 203.96.192.193 (17 Dec 2001 10:24:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 10:24:47 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30716 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net... snip > > Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone developed > a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever released? NO. ahem I hope you don't mind me enquiring but would you happen to have any idea what that was ? :) Carmen Article 30717 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Mr. Mohamed Elwan" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: royal jelly Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:54:47 +0300 Organization: Bees Kingdom Est. Lines: 243 Message-ID: <9vkjj4$h36$1@ns1.isu.net.sa> Reply-To: "Mr. Mohamed Elwan" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.71.52.95 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01C18702.64063FA0" X-Trace: ns1.isu.net.sa 1008587172 17510 212.71.52.95 (17 Dec 2001 11:06:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@isu.net.sa NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 11:06:12 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!news.isu.net.sa!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30717 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C18702.64063FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Group: All of your products is of our intrest specially Fresh Royal Jelly, = pollen and propolis. I would appreciate if you provide us with your best prices of the = followings 1- 100 kgs. Fresh Royal Jelly packed in 1 kg. 2- 20 kgs. Lyophlized powder Royal Jelly packed in 1kg (if its = possible). C&F Riyadh Airport, alongwith with all details of packings, payments, = samples, specifications and any other conditions. I would appreciate if you provide us with a complete list of your = products line, price list, catalouge / brochures, as will as samples if = it is possible. Thanging you and looking forwad to hear from you soon. Best regards, =20 Mohamed Elwan Manager Our address: Bees Kingdom Est. P.O. Box 2404=20 Riyadh 11451 Saudi Arabia Tel: +966+1+4115234 Fax: 4066369=20 MAIL: bees_kingdom@hotmail.com =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C18702.64063FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear = Group:

All of your products is of our intrest = specially Fresh=20 Royal Jelly, pollen and propolis.

I would appreciate if you provide us with your = best=20 prices of the followings

1-   100 kgs. Fresh = Royal Jelly=20 packed in 1 kg.

2-   20 kgs. Lyophlized=20 powder Royal Jelly packed in 1kg (if its = possible).

C&F Riyadh = Airport,=20 alongwith with all details of packings, payments, samples, = specifications and=20 any other conditions.

I would=20 appreciate if you provide us with a complete list of your products line, = price=20 list, catalouge / brochures, as will as samples if it is=20 possible.

Thanging=20 you and looking forwad to hear from you soon.

Best=20 regards,

 

Mohamed=20 Elwan

Manager

Our=20 address:

Bees=20 Kingdom Est.

P.O.=20 Box 2404

Riyadh=20 11451

Saudi=20 Arabia

Tel: = +966+1+4115234

Fax:           &n= bsp;=20   4066369 

MAIL:=20 bees_kingdom@hotmail.com

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C18702.64063FA0-- Article 30718 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 69 Message-ID: <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p64.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008643011 29875 203.96.192.64 (18 Dec 2001 02:36:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 02:36:51 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30718 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net... > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:55:15 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > > >beekeep wrote in message > >news:3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net... > >snip > >> > >> Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone developed > >> a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever released? NO. > > > >ahem > >I hope you don't mind me enquiring > >but would you happen to have any idea what that was ? > > > >:) > >Carmen > > > 75% Thymol > 16% Eucaliptus Oil > 4.5% Camphor > 4.5% Menthol > > This was applied on florist sponges in the hives. IIRC 99.9% kill > rate. I use it every year in August and back it up with fluvalinate > the end of October for the past 7 years or so. I have seen no > resistance yet. > > beekeep > Oh M'Gosh ! 99.9% That is amazing !! I have been reading about those essential oils, I already have Thymol and Eucalyptus. We were awaiting for Thymol to become registered by our governing body as a registered application for varroa. However the wording of current legislation has put a block in the way of that happening. So it has been decided, by the powers that be, that thymol may be able to be used and recognised as an endorsed treatment without being registered, so we are waiting for the official notification. I hope you do not mind but I will treasure your wee recipe and share it widely among those who are interested. I think there are many who are interested in non-chemical treatments because we kiwis have that die-hard clean green ideal to live up to, hobby beekeepers in particular are loathe to introduce chemicals to the hives. For one thing it will become a very expensive hobby and the commercial beekeepers will find it even more challenging. the profit margins are so finely set as it is with out the added expense of chemicals. So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! :) Again thanks muchly !! I will keep in touch Carmen Article 30719 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Glen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: A classification of the Eucalypts Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:11:02 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3c1eeafc$0$236@hades.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.96.1.66 X-Trace: hades.is.co.za 1008659196 236 192.96.1.66 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!infeed.is.co.za!feeder.is.co.za!hades.is.co.za!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30719 Hi to all ! Are there any suggestions to which book to buy ? Thanx in adv. Glen Article 30720 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:17:54 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 99 Message-ID: <9vn6ri$4g5$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p108.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008672434 4613 203.96.192.108 (18 Dec 2001 10:47:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 10:47:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30720 Dave Andrews wrote in message news:9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz... > > "Carmen" wrote in message > news:9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz... > > > Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper salt > in it kills the mites. > A repost of an article I posted last year and replies I received about "blue organic cupric salt Copper Gluconate" From: Carman Subject: Fwd:- Varroa treatments Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 2000-09-28 17:25:57 PST Subject: Shortcomings in Anti-Varroa Treatment > Shortcomings of Anti-Varroa Methods - Eliane Noirot > Published in the NZ beekeeper May 98 > > Time to dig out the old magazines and have a look at this article as we > discuss the merits of prophylactic treatment of hives going into > Kiwifruit. However with all the sugar feeding that goes on during > pollination, there may be another way. > > This could be out of date but it might be worth a member of the KPA > Emailing Eliane for more information and the exact dosage and spread the > word around > 1. Pesticides. > These treatments present, in addition to the shortcoming just mentioned, > other serious inconveniences. Acaricides as well as their residues are > dangerous for bees and beekeepers and they pollute honey and pollen by > their deposit in these products. M'Diaye and Bounias (29, 30) have > proven that Fluvalinate and Amitraze, rather popular pesticides, > although often advised (52) and proclaimed harmless (59), do, on the > contrary, poison the bees in an alarming way. Their physiological state > becomes sub-lethal and incompatible with work demanding great energy. > Foraging may thus become impossible and, as a consequence, the decrease > or disappearance of their pollination activity may endanger the survival > of plants. The effects of two acaricides, Amitraze and Fluvalinate, is > biphasic, small doses producing more serious damage than large ones (a > rather disquieting discovery!). The toxicity of acaricides has been > proven but not their efficiency. The studies dealing with this topic > have only shown that their effects on Varroa are limited ("at fork"): > part of the parasites survive because they rapidly become resistant to > the pesticide by transforming it biochemically (45, 46, 47). The > chemists must therefore continuously find new formulae. On the market, > the appearances of Folbex (bromopylate in fumigenic paper), Anti~Varroa > "Schering" (Amitraze), Pdrizin "Bayer", Klartan, Apitof and Apistan > (tissues impregnated with Fluvalinate) have rapidly succeeded one > another. Several beekeepers deplore their inefficiency like, for > example, Jean-Prost (21, 22) did for the use of Amitraze. > > 7. Feeding contaminated bees with organic cupric salts. > An anti~Varroa method, much more subtle than all the other ones, has > been designed and tested (in the laboratory and on the field) bv > Popeskovic and Bounias (17, 37, 40). Appropriate doses of copper > sulphate or, even better, of copper gluconate are added to the hive's > food. A \'arroa absorbing the heamolymph of a bee or a drone nourished > in this way, is asphyxiated within some days. Indeed, Varroa's > respiration is assured by external membranes (peritrenies) and by > particular cells (haemocyanins) transporting the oxygen to its whole > organism. Copper salts "block" these cells' activity and are harmless > for the bees because their respiration is assured by a tracheal system. > The toxicity, of copper sulphate is virtually absent for bees provided > that their diet is sufficiently rich in pollen. If not, they will > stiffer from a slight excess of sugar in their heimolymph (5, 6, 7, 34, > 35). Bees fed with copper gluconate apparently do riot suffer at all, > they are, on the contrary, in a physiological state of "hormesis" (33), > favouring longevity and protecting, against intoxication by Amitraze, > Fluvalinate and probably also by other pesticides (7, 36, ")7). > Reply from Peter edwards:- From: Peter Edwards (edwards.p@OUTstratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk) Subject: Re: Fwd:- Varroa treatments Date: 2000-10-05 23:08:22 PST I now have details and will be reading up the research over the next few days. Briefly, the treatment consists of feeding organic cupric salts (copper gluconate) at the rate of one teaspoonful in a gallon of syrup twice a year - spring and autumn. (Copper sulphate can be used but has some toxicity to the bees, whereas the gluconate does not - in fact, it is claimed to be beneficial). It works because the increased level of copper in the bees' haemolymph interferes with the varroa's respiration, but the bees are not affected. I will post further details, probably next week. Article 30721 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:27:12 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p9.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30721 On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! >:) >Again thanks muchly !! >I will keep in touch >Carmen That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers exist since varroa arrived. Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my bees so residues are of little concern. beekeep Article 30722 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:46:19 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 76 Message-ID: <9vn8gv$4vr$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p108.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008674143 5115 203.96.192.108 (18 Dec 2001 11:15:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:15:43 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30722 Thanks Allen I have saved the references to my favourites file for further study when i have some time. I was interested in the MAF comments about icing sugar, I have discovered something interesting and amusing. Having read about icing sugar, and how the mites fall off the bees when they are dusted, last time I went into my hives I filled a glass jar with icing sugar and placed a square of mesh over the mouth of the jar. Then I put a screw band on top. I cracked open my hives and did a check, as soon as I opened the hives, I dusted the bees with icing sugar, it was fabulouse !! The bees got one hell of a surprise, didn't know what hit them, stood in shocked surprise. After about 20 seconds they started cleaning themselves of the icing sugar. I did it as an experiment really, to see what might happen, but I discovered something completely unexpected, using my icing sugar shaker, i did not need to use a smoker. The bees didn't attempt to fly up and harrass me because they were so suprised and then obviously pleased and busy cleaning themselves in the sugar shake. I don't know that this is an efective method for varroa control, but it is certainly a fun thing to do. My plan is to take a 3-4 pronged aproach using a variety of varroa control methods, including regular sugar shakes rather than using my smoker, more as a fun thing really. Also for anyone interested there are currently some interesting experimentation going on in NZ using grapefruit leaves in the smoker. I have also had suggestion of using Oak bark in the smoker as well as placing a lump of propolis in the smoker, apparently some of those methods have been used with some success although I have no figures of % . Regards Carmen Allen Dick wrote in message news:Xns917AE7F359188allendinternodenet@198.80.55.10... > >> >> Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone > >> >> developed a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever > >> >> released? NO. > > Here are a few links: > > http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/13-html/0401.html > > http://www.hereintown.net/~rnoel/eotreatments.htm > > www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/varroa-treatment-o ptions.pdf > > This work is widely known and used to some extent. > > My understanding is that there are some problems. Residues is one, consistency in efficacy is another, and application methods > present another yet. > > I'd be interested in hearing the personal experience of anyone having used these methods, particularly if they have verified the > kill rate by following up with a measured drop immediately afterwards using one of the known high efficacy chemicals. > > allen > http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Article 30723 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:57:53 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 61 Message-ID: <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p88.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008361676 21637 203.96.192.88 (14 Dec 2001 20:27:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 20:27:56 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!lackawana.kippona.com!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30723 beekeep wrote in message news:3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net... > On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:25:12 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > >Greetings All > >An interesting artcile appeared in a Wellington, New Zealand Newspaper which > >may bee of interest. > >:) > >(Please see below) > >It is my view that, if the newspaper article is accurate and China has > >eliminated the effects of varroa with > >varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > > >Then this is an avenue worth persuing, we would need further information > >about the other attributes of the eight types of Bee in China, ie > >productivity, temperament etc. > >Anyone have any thoughts? > Russia has been dealing with this mite for many years as well. I have > heard from a russian that they use a chemical called PH3 for varroa > control. I was actually talking about China. But if you wish to talk about Russia then i can do that. Because resources are not plentiful, Beekeepers in Russia have been using Tomato and Potato leaves for many years. Place tomato and potato leaves in the top of the hives, the foliage should be collected just after it has flowered. The Mites fall from the bees and then can be contained and prevented from attaching to another bee by placing sticky boards on the bottom of the hives, the sticky boards are simply made from pasting the board with cooking oil or vaseline. Alternatively mesh bottom boards would be equally effective. Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells me that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have more colony duties then are currently known by many. > I have asked some of the experts about this but no one > seems to have ever heard about it. One would think that the first > place USDA would have looked for control methods would have been China > and Russa. Indeed ! Carmen >Being that this may have reduced the amount of research > required seems to me to be the reason it was never looked into. Maybe > I'm wrong, but I wouldn't put it past the USDA researchers to have > imported the mites! > > Sure you can trust our government, ask any Native American. > beekeep > > > Article 30724 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Dave Andrews" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:37:40 +1300 Organization: G.C.S.B NZ Echelon Project. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p122.ipnet.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008364309 22270 203.96.208.122 (14 Dec 2001 21:11:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 21:11:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!lackawana.kippona.com!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30724 "Carmen" wrote in message news:9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz... Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper salt in it kills the mites. Article 30725 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:50:40 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: <9vo8d8$d42$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p22.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008706792 13442 203.96.192.22 (18 Dec 2001 20:19:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 20:19:52 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30725 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net... > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! > >:) > >Again thanks muchly !! > >I will keep in touch > >Carmen > > That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers > exist since varroa arrived. > > Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver > problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my > bees so residues are of little concern. > > > beekeep Hi Greg Perhaps Thymol could cause liver damage if taken internally in large doses over time. However our MAF scientist was able to give us reassurance, at a seminar I attended, that thymol used in hives does not persist. That is it breaks down into natural non-toxic compounds as found in the thyme plant, and is rendered hamless. So I have no qualms at all about using the sbstance in my hives and taking honey from them. :) Carmen Article 30726 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 18 Dec 2001 20:38:56 GMT References: <3C1D70FF.70002@verizon.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: New Jersey Bee Packages or Nucs Message-ID: <20011218153856.07248.00001399@mb-dh.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30726 From: Marc Wachter wachterassoc@verizon.net >I was looking for anyone who was having packages brought into NJ this >spring >or was willing to sell nucs or splits. Check with Chuck Kutik, kutikshoney@mkl.com He may be able to bring some nucs. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 30727 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Neglected to Apistan Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 4 Message-ID: <9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp18.phys.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 1008712013 14895 128.173.176.157 (18 Dec 2001 21:46:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:46:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30727 I have one colony only. It is mid December in Southwest Virginia and I have failed to do the Apistan treatment. Is there anything I can now do to protect my colony until Spring. They are midnights and seem very strong. Article 30728 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:29:28 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 59 Message-ID: <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p102.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008712746 14903 203.96.192.102 (18 Dec 2001 21:59:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 21:59:06 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30728 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net... > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! > >:) > >Again thanks muchly !! > >I will keep in touch > >Carmen > > That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers > exist since varroa arrived. > > Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver > problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my > bees so residues are of little concern. > > > beekeep Hi, again :) I now have the handbook issued to us by MAF beside my keyboard, because I want to be precise and quote page nos etc. Much of what is contained in our handbook is also on the site recommended by Allen Dick www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/varroa-treatment-o ptions.pdf The treatment that I previously spoke of which we are awaiting confirmation of status on is Apiguard which is thymol in a gel, studies have shown that the kill rate is between 62-98% kill rate. Another product called Apilife VAR which is in tablet form so obviously Caldrone's formula is in use in Apilife VAR, but hasn't yet been released on the market for use here yet. It has all the ingredients that you are using in your recipe but there is no percentage of the ingredients, our handbook just gives thymol at 76% and then lists euc, camphor and menth without the % of consentration to be used. Our handbook notes that the kill rate sing Aplifie VAR is 90-95% effective but may be inconsistent depending on temperatures. Recommending also that it is used with the mesh bottom board. Apparently the toxicity to bees is higher in the essential oils than Fluvalinate:- Fluvalinate:- 800-1000 times more toxic to varroa than bees essential oils:- 2-4 times more txic to varroa than bees. Page 44 of my handbook says essential oils absorb into the wax but dissipate over time and aren't considered toxic to humans, with the exception of wintergreen. Regards Carmen Article 30729 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Cara & Tom Patterson Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Drones colony duties Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: FkyS7-364480-ER5-647790@rwcrnsc52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008382769 FkyS7-364480-ER5-647790@rwcrnsc52 (Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:19:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:19:29 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:19:29 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30729 On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:57:53 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: >Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells me >that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of >drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have more >colony duties then are currently known by many. > >Indeed ! > >Carmen > I am one of the many. Would you kindly share some of their colony duties? TIA Tom Article 30730 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:47:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.182 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1008654476 198.161.229.182 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:56 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:56 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30730 >> >> Let's look at their past record with varroa. Nick Calderone >> >> developed a natural treatment for varroa years ago. Was it ever >> >> released? NO. Here are a few links: http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/13-html/0401.html http://www.hereintown.net/~rnoel/eotreatments.htm www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/varroa-treatment-options.pdf This work is widely known and used to some extent. My understanding is that there are some problems. Residues is one, consistency in efficacy is another, and application methods present another yet. I'd be interested in hearing the personal experience of anyone having used these methods, particularly if they have verified the kill rate by following up with a measured drop immediately afterwards using one of the known high efficacy chemicals. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Article 30731 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:01:34 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 74 Message-ID: <3c208e1f.656413234@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p6.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30731 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:29:28 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: > >beekeep wrote in message >news:3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net... >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" >> wrote: >> >> >> >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! >> >:) >> >Again thanks muchly !! >> >I will keep in touch >> >Carmen >> >> That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers >> exist since varroa arrived. >> >> Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver >> problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my >> bees so residues are of little concern. >> >> >> beekeep > >Hi, again >:) >I now have the handbook issued to us by MAF >beside my keyboard, because I want to be precise and quote page nos etc. >Much of what is contained in our handbook is also on the site recommended by >Allen Dick >www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/varroa-treatment-o >ptions.pdf > >The treatment that I previously spoke of which we are awaiting confirmation >of status on is Apiguard which is thymol in a gel, >studies have shown that the kill rate is between 62-98% kill rate. > >Another product called Apilife VAR which is in tablet form >so obviously Caldrone's formula is in use in Apilife VAR, but hasn't yet >been released on the market for use here yet. > >It has all the ingredients that you are using in your recipe but there is no >percentage of the ingredients, our handbook just gives >thymol at 76% and then lists euc, camphor and menth without the % of >consentration to be used. >Our handbook notes that the kill rate sing Aplifie VAR is 90-95% effective >but may be inconsistent depending on temperatures. Recommending also that >it is used with the mesh bottom board. >Apparently the toxicity to bees is higher in the essential oils than >Fluvalinate:- >Fluvalinate:- 800-1000 times more toxic to varroa than bees >essential oils:- 2-4 times more txic to varroa than bees. >Page 44 of my handbook says essential oils absorb into the wax but >dissipate over time and aren't considered toxic to humans, with the >exception of wintergreen. > >Regards >Carmen > > I have modified the formula a little to make it easier to completely disolve the thymol. I take a 125 gram bottle of thymol and add 1/2 ounce of champhor and a 1/2 once of menthol. I then fill the bottle with eucaliptus oil and let it stand overnight. This is then applied to 50 cellulos sponge halves. One 1/2 sponge is placed on the top bars. I am able to get all the ingedients at Wall Mart, a big department store. I am sure that you can find them over there. beekeep Article 30732 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:56:09 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 64 Message-ID: <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p6.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008437169 7621 203.96.192.134 (15 Dec 2001 17:26:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:26:09 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30732 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net... > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:06 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > > >Dave Andrews wrote in message > >news:9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz... > >> > >> "Carmen" wrote in message > >> news:9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz... > >> > >> > >> Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper > >salt > >> in it kills the mites. > >> > > > > > >I have also read about copper, > >"blue organic cupric salt Copper Gluconate" > >to be exact. > > > >Regards > >Carmen > > > > > Have you heard of PH3? It is my understanding that this is what the > russians are using for varroa control. > > beekeep No I haven't, what is it? You said in another post that it is a chemical. I am not interested in using chemicals for varroa control. Speaking of chemicals, I was recently told by a MAF Scientist that Apistan leaves residue in wax and the residue is persistent. That is, it is fat soluble and traces remain in wax, to build up over time, contaminate the honey and when ingested build up in our bodies fat deposits, and also the brain. I received an email recently that suggested Fluvonate breaks down and one of the constituents that it breaks down to is cyanide. Tomato and potato leaves sound safer. By the way Beekeep, I note you don't usually post in this ng, but rather an ng pertaining to vehicles and you seem to have appeared here for this particular post. Obviously the topic is of interest to you, as is the honesty/dishonesty of the american Govt and for some reason with particular relation to "Native American" as referenced in your other post. So what's your point ? Have you anything informative to add or are you merely 'stalking' me for amusement ? :) taking the bull by the horns Carmen Article 30733 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:59:56 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9vg1ab$7gn$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p6.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008437387 7703 203.96.192.134 (15 Dec 2001 17:29:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:29:47 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30733 George Styer wrote in message news:TBbS7.221437$3d2.10406635@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > We have known for a long time that the eastern honeybee (Apis cerana) has > resistance but this is not due to anything the Chinese have done. It is the > result of co-evolution and other factors such as a shorter egg-to-emergence > cycle. The article mentions "China has eight major races of honeybees - New > Zealand one". Well NZ may have one species, but certainly there are many > races within that species. Nowhere in the article are the 4 species > mentioned, nor is it claimed that the resistant bee in China is Apis > mellifera because the author simply did not do any research that is apparent > in the text. Poorly presented information. > > -- > Geo > Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley > "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" > gstyLer@att.net > To respond via email, get the "L" out of there > Whether or not it is 'Poorly presented information' I believe it is worth following up. Fortunate beekeeping e-lists have on offer far more informed/informative and open minded dialogue than what is apparent here. Thanks for your comments :) Carmen Article 30734 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Pat & Cathie Rust" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: new to the game Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:18:24 -0500 Lines: 6 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.20.85.146 Message-ID: <3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com> X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1008792164 208.20.85.146 (19 Dec 2001 14:02:44 -0600) X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30734 Just acquired three old hives w/frames and everything. Want to get started keeping bees in the spring. Where do I start? I haven't got a clue. The frames have some old comb in them. Do I clean them down to the wires or what? What else should I Do? Thanks in advance for any help. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Article 30735 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: new to the game Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:58:20 -0500 Organization: East Central Ohio Beekeepers Association Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9vqv1d$h5i71$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.66 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008795502 18008289 63.100.169.66 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.66!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30735 Reading is the best place to start. Then call your local ag service and see if there are any bee clubs or organizations. Check out webpages for info and once again... read read read! -- BeeFarmer Getting Kids involved in 4H Beekeeping http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/ "Pat & Cathie Rust" wrote in message news:3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com... > Just acquired three old hives w/frames and everything. Want to get started > keeping bees in the spring. Where do I start? I haven't got a clue. The > frames have some old comb in them. Do I clean them down to the wires or > what? What else should I Do? Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Article 30736 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:54:25 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30736 On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:56:09 +1300, "Carmen" wrote: > >By the way Beekeep, I note you don't usually post in this ng, but rather an >ng pertaining to vehicles and you seem to have appeared here for this >particular post. > >Obviously the topic is of interest to you, as is the honesty/dishonesty of >the american Govt and for some reason with particular relation to "Native >American" as referenced in your other post. > >So what's your point ? Have you anything informative to add or are you >merely 'stalking' me for amusement ? > >:) >taking the bull by the horns >Carmen > > Actually I have posted here many times over the past several years. My personal opinion of USDA is that it should be abolished. It does little for us that private industry couldn't do. It is comprised mostly of gov't workers that are only interested in payday and the retirement. If we commercial beekeepers relied on them to save us we would all starve to death. As to my point, I have none. I read your post, thought it was inteligent, made some good points, and so I asked for more information. That is what this place is for. " Sorry if my assumtions were way off base. You have no reason to be paranoid of me as I make no real secret as to who I am, what I am, or where I live. beekeep Greg Ferris, Commercial Beekeeper DBA Ferris Apiaries 2805 Butterfly Place Indian Head, Maryland 20640 http://www.radix.net/~honeybs www.beesinabottle.com Article 30737 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Истомин" Newsgroups: odessa.commerce.construction,odessa.commerce.machinery,odessa.commerce.price-lists,odessa.commerce.transport,relcom.commerce.computers,sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Запчасти к с/х технике Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:06:45 +0300 Organization: user from ELVISTI Lines: 56 Message-ID: <9vnanh$24v9$10@app0.visti.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: acc7-246.dialup.elvisti.kiev.ua X-Trace: app0.visti.net 1008676401 70633 195.64.228.246 (18 Dec 2001 11:53:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@app0.visti.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:53:21 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!carrier.kiev.ua!horse.lucky.net!info.elvisti.kiev.ua!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu relcom.commerce.computers:192172 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30737 Уважаемые Господа! Предлагаем запчасти к с/х технике: 1. Гидрораспределители Р-80 всех модификаций на трактора: К-700,Т-40, ЮМЗ, ДТ-75, МТЗ на эскалаторы и погрузчики. Р-160 всех модификаций на трактора К-700 и Т-130. 2.Гидроцелиндры: ЦС - 75, 100, 110(К-700, Т-150),Муфта разрывная 3. Насосы НШ-32,50 и 100 всех модификаций на технику: МАЗ, Т-130, МТЗ, К-700, Т-150К, Т-150, ДТ-75. 4.Турбокомпрессоры: ТКР 8.5 всех модификаций на двигатели: СМД-18,19, СМД-21, СМД-31, Д-440-21 ТКР-11 Н-1, Н-2 ДВ СМД-18, СМД-60 ТКР-11 Н-3 Д-160, ТКР ЯМЗ 238 НБ. 5.Топлевные насосы высокого давления на двигатели:ЯМЗ-238, А-01, А-41. Д-160, СМД-60, Д-240, Д-65, Д-144, Д-21, СМД-18, ЯМЗ-240, 6.Поршневая группа: СМД - 14, 20, 22, 60, 62.А-41, Д-144, 240, 65. 7.Поршневые кольца:СМД-20, 22, 60, 14,А-41, Д-240, 65, 144. 8.Пара плужерная: Д-240, 65(УТН-5)СМД-18, 20 А-41(ЛСТН) 9.Фильтры-патрон - СМД-60, 20Фильтр в КПП СМД-60 Фильтры-топливные Д240, СМД-60, 18, 10.Вал коленчатый: СМД-18, 20, 60. Д-65, 240, 144. 11.Насос водяной: Д-240 (чугун., алюмин.)Д-65, А-41 СМД-60 СМД-18 Рем.комплект помпы Д-240,Д-65Рем.комплект СМД-60 12.Рулевое управление: Наконечник рулевых тяг МТЗ, ГУР ЮМЗ ГУР МТЗ 13.Прокладка ГБЦ:СМД-14.18.20,31,60СМД-Д-240,Д-65 А-41,01.ЯМЗ-240,ГАЗ-52,53 14.Секция высокого давления: СМД-60, Т-25, Д-144 15.Насос подкачки: СМД-60, 18. Д-240. 16.Рукав высокого давления - в ассортименте. 17.Вкладыши (моторокомпл.)Д-240,37,65. СМД-20,60. 18.Распылитель:СМД-14,18,20,31,60. Д-240,65,144.А-41.ЯМЗ, КАМАЗ 19.Компрессор:ЗИЛ,Т-150,КАМАЗ,МТЗ 20.Гениратор: МТЗ,ЮМЗ,Т-150 21.Стартер: МТЗ,ЮМЗ,Т-40,Т-25 22.Насос топливный - в ассортименте 23.Головка блока: Д-240, Д-65 /голая/СМД-20,22 А-41/голая/СМД-60 /голая/ 24.Сцепление - корзина м/сцепления, диск, накладка - в ассортименте 25.ПД-10, П-350 (в сборе) - в ассортименте. 26.Ремни - в ассортименте. 27.Система охлаждения - Радиатор МТЗ, Сердцевина радиатора Т-150,ЮМЗ. 28.Кольца Мичуринские в ассортименте. Прайс вышлем по запросу. Наш тел/факс: (044) 249-69-05 E-mail: avantag@visti.com С уважением, ООО "АВАНТАЖ-АГРО" Article 30738 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Истомин" Newsgroups: odessa.commerce.transport,relcom.commerce.computers,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.fruit,sci.agriculture.poultry,sci.agriculture.ratites Subject: Продам комбайны Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:33:41 +0300 Organization: user from ELVISTI Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9vnanu$24v9$23@app0.visti.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: acc7-246.dialup.elvisti.kiev.ua X-Trace: app0.visti.net 1008676414 70633 195.64.228.246 (18 Dec 2001 11:53:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@app0.visti.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:53:34 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!carrier.kiev.ua!horse.lucky.net!info.elvisti.kiev.ua!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu relcom.commerce.computers:192173 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30738 sci.agriculture.fruit:4081 sci.agriculture.poultry:33228 sci.agriculture.ratites:1769 Продам: Комбайн "Дон-1500Б" имеет следующую комплектацию: -молотилка (сам комбайн) с наклонной камерой и кондиционером -копнитель,либо измельчитель(по желанию) -жатка 6,0м.,либо 7,0м.(по желанию) -подборщик -платформа-подборщик -отопитель кабины -двигатель ЯМЗ-238(Ярославский) В зависимости от комплектации цена изменяется. Комбайн "Нива" СК-5М-1 имеет следующую комплектацию: -молотилка с наклонной камерой и вентилятором -копнитель,либо измельчитель(по желанию) -жатка 4,1м.,либо 5,0м.(по желанию) -подборщик -платформа-подборщик -отопитель кабины -двигатель Д-242(Алтайский) В зависимости от комплектации цена изменяется. Надеемся на партнерство. С уважением, ООО "Авантаж-Агро" Наш тел/факс: (044) 249-69-05 E-mail:avantag@visti.com Article 30739 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Plans for those who like to build their own equipment Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:46:34 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 29 Message-ID: <37411287.0112131246.406093e5@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.25.21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008276395 1955 127.0.0.1 (13 Dec 2001 20:46:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:46:35 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30739 Does anyone have any plans (or links to) to build a single frame observation hive, suitable for taking (for example) to a classroom? I borrowed an observation hive from a friend (who unfortunately does not really live that close by, so I can't easily borrow it to copy it) and used it to take a frame of bees to my children's classroom one day. The bees were a hit! One girl was so afraid, she did not want to get within 15 feet of them at first, but was eagerly looking closely at the bees in about 10 minutes time! So, if I can find some plans, another friend may build it for me, in time to take them to school in the spring for "Exploration Day". thanks! audrey ishizaki "David R Carlson" wrote in message news:... > Came acros this site that has tons of plans that you can down-load and or > order from. If you look under misc you will find several plans for Hives, > solar melter etc. > It's part of the North Dakota State University and the USDA. > > http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans/ > > If you Know of any other sites let me know. > > Thanks Dave Carlson > Redding, CA Article 30740 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Reversing boxes/swapping frames in winter Date: 16 Dec 2001 10:48:16 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 11 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112161048.c876b89@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008528497 15340 127.0.0.1 (16 Dec 2001 18:48:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 18:48:17 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!image.surnet.ru!news.panservice.it!newsfeeder.inwind.it!inwind.it!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!193.251.151.101!opentransit.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!freenix!feed.ac-versailles.fr!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30740 "Tom S" wrote in message news:... > . Maybe I'm too > cavalier...or it doesn't get as cold here... In a mild climate like yours you probably did no lasting harm,as the bees can recluster whereever the feed is.In general though,bees should be allowed to winter in the way they set themselves up.If a weak hive clusters under the cover it is because it is warmer there and its probably where the food is.Easy to feed them there,too.Just opening a hive does no real damage.Many thousands of hives in Cal.will be opened to inspect and start feeding for almond pollination in early Jan. -Mike Tooley Article 30741 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 18 Dec 2001 02:12:22 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.222.117.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008670342 29304 127.0.0.1 (18 Dec 2001 10:12:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 10:12:22 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30741 "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz>... [...] > Because resources are not plentiful, Beekeepers in Russia have been using > Tomato and Potato leaves for many years. > Place tomato and potato leaves in the top of the hives, the foliage should > be collected just after it has flowered. > The Mites fall from the bees and then can be contained and prevented from > attaching to another bee by placing sticky boards on the bottom of the > hives, the sticky boards are simply made from pasting the board with cooking > oil or vaseline. [...] That's a interesting method, but we should all be aware that tomato and potato leaves are toxic to humans. I think that potato leaves can even be lethal. Article 30742 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 18 Dec 2001 02:14:53 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.222.117.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008670493 29343 127.0.0.1 (18 Dec 2001 10:14:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 10:14:53 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30742 "Dave Andrews" wrote in message news:<9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper salt > in it kills the mites. This is also an interesting information, but we should also realise that some copper salts and in any case copper oxide are highly toxic to humans. Article 30743 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Tom S" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Reversing boxes/swapping frames in winter Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:44:28 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 61 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!lackawana.kippona.com!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30743 I'm posting one reply I received in case my original post was unclear. The sender's name is intentionally removed. I re-post it to see how many of you concur with his concern about winter inspections. Maybe I'm too cavalier...or it doesn't get as cold here... <> My reply was: Hi A.., Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your wllingness to comment on my post. I was not opening the hives just to do an inspection, it was necessary in order to remove the Apistan strips. In order to remove the strips in the bottom box it is necessary to take off the top box, of course. The hives are two-story standard Langstroth-type deep brood boxes. Maybe I don't understand your question on that point. This is the standard size brood box here in the states and many other places as well, as I understand, though there are many variations. The hives already do have grease patties in them-that is of course one additional thing to check when inspecting the hives. We have been advised that it is okay to open the hive for brief inspection whenever the bees are flying, which could be just a sunny day in the winter. In this case it was about 50 degrees F or 10 degrees C. The hive is to be open no more than a few minutes, however, and the inner cover is always kept in place. But I would not open the hive unless I had a specific objective in mind, directly related to the viability/overwintering of the hive. When I see a LOT of dead bees in front and the hive shows no activity, I need to know whether the hive is still alive, and if so, whether it it needs to be fed, bottom board cleaned of bees or even merged with another stronger hive in order to survive. In one case I put one hive on top of another in order to use the stronger lower hives heat to ease the stress on the weaker top hive (using a Snelgrove board). All of my hives were fall-requeened, so I have an additional interest/investment in seeing the new queens through to spring. But your point is well taken. Just don't open them up for sightseeing. I fully agree. And thanks for your reply. Tom S. Article 30744 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "salvatorebts" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:08:40 +0100 Organization: Tiscali Spa Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9vtgb1$eid$4@pegasus.tiscalinet.it> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-62-10-155-131.dialup.tiscali.it X-Trace: pegasus.tiscalinet.it 1008878753 14925 62.10.155.131 (20 Dec 2001 20:05:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@it.tiscali.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 20:05:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.infostrada.it!newsfeeder.edisontel.com!newsfeeder.inwind.it!inwind.it!draco.tiscalinet.it!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30744 recently and state written on this NG > > I was actually talking about China. > But if you wish to talk about Russia then i can do that. > Because resources are not plentiful, Beekeepers in Russia have been using > Tomato and Potato leaves for many years. > Place tomato and potato leaves in the top of the hives, the foliage should > be collected just after it has flowered. > The Mites fall from the bees and then can be contained and prevented from > attaching to another bee by placing sticky boards on the bottom of the > hives, the sticky boards are simply made from pasting the board with cooking > oil or vaseline. > Alternatively mesh bottom boards would be equally effective. > Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells me > that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of > drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have more > colony duties then are currently known by many. You could explain better me, as the leaves are used I give tomato and potato. Are they had to place on the looms of the nest? , are the leaves green (fresh) or shoals? how much of it are I/you/they used for every beehive? , what effectiveness do you/they have? you excuse the scarce grammar but the Italian translator > English doesn't know better how to do of regards for everybody and a good native and good year nospam-ideestonate@tiscalinet.it Article 30745 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:50:30 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 77 Message-ID: <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p11.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008483614 22796 203.96.192.139 (16 Dec 2001 06:20:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 06:20:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30745 beekeep wrote in message news:3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net... > On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:56:09 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > >By the way Beekeep, I note you don't usually post in this ng, but rather an > >ng pertaining to vehicles and you seem to have appeared here for this > >particular post. > > > >Obviously the topic is of interest to you, as is the honesty/dishonesty of > >the american Govt and for some reason with particular relation to "Native > >American" as referenced in your other post. > > > >So what's your point ? Have you anything informative to add or are you > >merely 'stalking' me for amusement ? > > > >:) > >taking the bull by the horns > >Carmen > > > > > Actually I have posted here many times over the past several years. > > My personal opinion of USDA is that it should be abolished. It does > little for us that private industry couldn't do. It is comprised > mostly of gov't workers that are only interested in payday and the > retirement. If we commercial beekeepers relied on them to save us we > would all starve to death. I guess Govt workers with little or no actual hands on experience in Apiculture ? Your website looks good A friend of min ehad an article in a magazine here last year, NZ, they are into marketing bee venom. They are able to extract the venom from their bees without killing the bees. ie I am very aware that the bee sting therapy kills the bees. My friend imported a device whereby boxes are covered with glass and small electric shocks are passed thru the glass, not too high voltage, or that will kill the bees. The contraption is left on for about a day and by then the whole hive has virtually stung the glass and lives to tell the tale. Then the residue is scraped up and apparently worth more than gold, the bees live to sting another day. The venom is then made into tablet form so it is beneficial for the patient as it is painless and just as effective. It could revolutionise your business. > As to my point, I have none. I read your post, thought it was > inteligent, made some good points, and so I asked for more > information. That is what this place is for. " Sorry if my > assumtions were way off base. You have no reason to be paranoid of me > as I make no real secret as to who I am, what I am, or where I live. No problem, I was just checking you out :) thanks Carmen > beekeep > > Greg Ferris, Commercial Beekeeper > DBA Ferris Apiaries > 2805 Butterfly Place > Indian Head, Maryland 20640 > > http://www.radix.net/~honeybs > www.beesinabottle.com > Article 30746 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: The Observation Hive. Date: 19 Dec 2001 04:29:41 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 32 Message-ID: <344b9345.0112190429.3a74d526@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008764981 29936 127.0.0.1 (19 Dec 2001 12:29:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:29:41 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30746 I got this article in the Tara Beekeepers Association newslatter. May be anyone here has an idea? More newsletter you can find here: http://www.gabeekeeping.com/tara/default.asp I've been checking on the condition of my observation hive frequently. To any beekeeper that has ever owned an observation hive they will know the many hours of enjoyment they bring. Kids love to stare at the inner workings of the hive. Find the queen and wonder about what they are doing. Yesterday (Sept 20) the hive had a good strong population; there was some covered brood but a very little supply of Honey (a small amount of nectar laid in the bottom of the cells). When I came home from work today I didn't disturbed them by removing the covers, I went straight to filling the feed bottle with some left over Honey from the uncapping operations that took place last month. Pouring a small amount of cool Honey is like watching the grass grow but finally the bottle filled. I placed the cap will holes on the bottle, quickly removed the cover over the feeder hole and inserted the neck of the bottle into the hole. I breathed a sigh of relief that the job was over and there wasn't any accidents. I wondered if the bees were enjoying their meal so I removed the cover and was surprised to find out why they had been so quiet. There wasn't a single bee in the hive! Not even a dead bee, completely empty! The capped broad was still there but that was it. Why they absounded is a mystery. Was the population too large for the small confines of the observation hive? Was there too little food to stay? Why would they leave near the end of September? Only the bees know the answer. Andrey. Article 30747 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Neglected to Apistan Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:03:58 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 10 Message-ID: <49875365.0112191203.70a458bd@posting.google.com> References: <9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008792238 7783 127.0.0.1 (19 Dec 2001 20:03:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Dec 2001 20:03:58 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!alnews.ncsc.mil!feed.news.qwest.net!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30747 jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) wrote in message news:<9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>... > I have one colony only. It is mid December in Southwest Virginia and I have > failed to do the Apistan treatment. Is there anything I can now do to protect > my colony until Spring. They are midnights and seem very strong. I would not do anything right now and hold on until the spring. If it was strong colony befor winter then they should be ok. Just do not forget to do treatment at the spring time. Andrey. Article 30748 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: earthquake-proofing beehives? Date: 13 Dec 2001 13:03:53 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: <37411287.0112131303.2549f501@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.25.21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008277433 2413 127.0.0.1 (13 Dec 2001 21:03:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 21:03:53 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30748 ahoy there CA beekeepers! Do you "earthquake-proof" your beehives? How? The whole stacking of supers seems inherently unstable in earthquake country. I just have a single backyard hive in the suburbs, with neighbors all around. any suggestions? audrey ishizaki Article 30749 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Plans for those who like to build their own equipment Date: 13 Dec 2001 09:48:14 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 5 Message-ID: <49875365.0112130948.2926cad@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008265695 30214 127.0.0.1 (13 Dec 2001 17:48:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 17:48:15 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30749 here is a good place for beekeeping equipment plans http://www.beesource.com/plans/index.htm Andrey. Article 30750 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Plans for those who like to build their own equipment Date: 14 Dec 2001 10:09:20 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 5 Message-ID: <344b9345.0112141009.18821071@posting.google.com> References: <37411287.0112131246.406093e5@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.226.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008353360 28883 127.0.0.1 (14 Dec 2001 18:09:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 18:09:20 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!freenix!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30750 audrey ishizaki, if you follow that link that i post earlear you will find three frames oservation hive. I am sure to build one will be very similar. Andrey. Article 30751 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 16 Dec 2001 22:57:37 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 3 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112162257.77a1c4c9@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.162 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008572258 28561 127.0.0.1 (17 Dec 2001 06:57:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 06:57:38 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30751 Well,they do have prettier packaging on their strips.Looks like our Chinese brothers are having the same problems we are,but I think progress is beimg made. -Mike Article 30752 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 18 Dec 2001 07:37:55 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 35 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.176 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008689875 4096 127.0.0.1 (18 Dec 2001 15:37:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 15:37:55 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!xmission!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com.MISMATCH!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30752 honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) wrote in message news:<3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net>... > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! > >:) > >Again thanks muchly !! > >I will keep in touch > >Carmen > > That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers > exist since varroa arrived. > > Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver > problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my > bees so residues are of little concern. One problem with vapor/fume/dust type treatments is that they have a quick knockdown and then they arent effective after a day or two.Some of the knocked down mites may only be stunned and will get back up,unless they fall through a mesh on the bottom.So to be effective,there must be repeat treatments to get mites coming out of the brood,say every 7to 10 days,until the mite levels are low enough not to cause damage.With repeat treatments,consideration has to be given to whether we are harming bees or brood,or building up levels of residues in the wax and honey.IMO thymol residues would be less objectionable than say organophosphate residues,but none should be in honey being sold.A workable IPM system using SMR,Russian,or other resistant strains,helped with a 1/8" mesh bottom,along with less toxic treatments properly timed, now seems possible. By the way there was a lot of good info on sugar dusting on the BEE-L list awhile back.Dont know if its archived . -Mike Article 30753 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: albert.cannon@lineone.net (albert cannon) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Drones colony duties Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:09:33 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4169b71c.0112151709.4204e09b@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4ip$am$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.7.79.163 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008464973 30477 127.0.0.1 (16 Dec 2001 01:09:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 01:09:33 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30753 "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vf4ip$am$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Cara & Tom Patterson wrote in message > news:lhcl1u4iu162j022rv7aonrorptdef061b@4ax.com... > > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:57:53 +1300, "Carmen" > wrote: > > > > > > >Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells > me > > >that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of > > >drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have > more > > >colony duties then are currently known by many. > > > > > >Indeed ! > > > > > >Carmen > > > > > I am one of the many. Would you kindly share some of their colony duties? > > > > TIA > When there are drones about the other bees know that should the queen fail and they have to supereseed then there are male bees about to do the necessary fertilisation of the Queen, They also help with keeping the hive warm. And lets face it ladies we males are sometimes a pain but you love us really??? Article 30754 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: 3511_1@msn.com (RW) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: 5 hives wanted in TN Date: 18 Dec 2001 19:08:48 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 7 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.65.72.197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008731328 19745 127.0.0.1 (19 Dec 2001 03:08:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Dec 2001 03:08:48 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30754 I'm looking for 5 healthy 2 story hives near Crossville, TN for early spring pickup. Please email price, condition and other particulars to 3511_1@msn.com. Thanks and Happy Holidays, RW Article 30755 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: nucskep@yahoo.com (Nuc Skep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: earthquake-proofing beehives? Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:58:36 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9936fa52.0112190958.512f1740@posting.google.com> References: <37411287.0112131303.2549f501@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.47.50.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008784717 4912 127.0.0.1 (19 Dec 2001 17:58:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:58:37 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30755 I would think that securing the hive for a move would also work for earthquake proofing a hive. I use long tie-down straps with a racheting latch to hold mine together. It's easy to release when you want to open the hive. To prevent a tip-over, tie the hive to the center of a large wooden pallet. Nuc audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) wrote in message news:<37411287.0112131303.2549f501@posting.google.com>... > ahoy there CA beekeepers! > > Do you "earthquake-proof" your beehives? > How? > > The whole stacking of supers seems inherently > unstable in earthquake country. > > I just have a single backyard hive in the suburbs, with > neighbors all around. > > any suggestions? > > audrey ishizaki Article 30756 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 20 Dec 2001 01:59:10 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.222.117.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008842350 22738 127.0.0.1 (20 Dec 2001 09:59:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:59:10 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!lackawana.kippona.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30756 "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz>... [...] > > Another product called Apilife VAR which is in tablet form > so obviously Caldrone's formula is in use in Apilife VAR, but hasn't yet > been released on the market for use here yet. > [...] Here in Europe, I know some beekeepers that use Apilife VAR and swear by it. However, discussing with them, I found out that some lost quite a few hives during winter. It is little more than anecdotical evidence of course, but as with any new product, I will advise testing it on part of your apiary first. It seems common sense to me. Article 30757 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 16 Dec 2001 10:28:10 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 43 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112161028.1b1017fe@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008527290 14956 127.0.0.1 (16 Dec 2001 18:28:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 18:28:10 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30757 "> > THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, > Edition 3, Page 6. > Bee answer lies in China > > THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, This statment alone should raise a red flag.Nothing about varroa is 'simple'. > At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New Zealand > beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all > reference to Asia, except Vietnam. Could be because those countries have nothing of value to contribute. > That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods > and research facilities China the most advanced?Ha,Ha! >. China has > eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. Sounds like a press release from the Commies.Always first with the best.How come shipments of chinese honey have been rejected for having residues of varroacides not legal in the importing country?Of course A.cerana has always been resistant but is not a very productive bee,and cant cross with European bees. > > It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees > from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes > over. It is only obvious that it should be checked out.This article doesnt pass the BS detector,IMHO. -Mike Tooley Article 30758 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 20 Dec 2001 23:54:13 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.222.117.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008921253 20622 127.0.0.1 (21 Dec 2001 07:54:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Dec 2001 07:54:13 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30758 "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Perhaps other methods need to be incorporated during the winter season. > Perhaps the time for using Fluvonate, when the honey boxes are off and the > brood numbers are lower, > in keeping with Greg's suggestions. > > One thing is for sure, > I've got to hit the ground running ! > I spotted my first mite the other day. > I lifted a capping, to see a nice healthy larvae, > with a mite sitting on the end of it's nose. > :( > I thought I saw it waving little leg at me, > taunting me it was, just before it scurried off. > :) I seem to recall that you are located in New Zealand, so I suppose that you are still in honey season. Keep calm, don't put treatments in your hive because that would contaminate the honey and realise that it is unlikely that an healthy hive will collapse in a matter of days just because you saw one varroa. You may want to remove drone brood, though, because that is where the most varroa are. I will be off for the holyday season, so I won't be able to discuss varroa treatments for a few days. In the mean time, you may want to do a web and usenet search on the following alternative treatments: - formic acid (the most efficient in my opinion) - lactic acid - wintergreen - mint oil - food grade mineral oil - oxalic acid - drone brood removal - brood temperature treatment And don't forget: the varroa is here, it's a pain, but bees and beekeeper have managed to survive it for a decade. There is no reason for panic. Article 30759 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 21 Dec 2001 00:34:01 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsias$fc0$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.222.117.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008923641 21310 127.0.0.1 (21 Dec 2001 08:34:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Dec 2001 08:34:01 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!canoe.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30759 "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vsias$fc0$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > > [...] > > > Because resources are not plentiful, Beekeepers in Russia have been > using > > > Tomato and Potato leaves for many years. [...] > Quite right. > I need to do more research on this, but from what I have heard it is > effective,[...] A quick web search doesn't show any document dealing with the subject. Bad sign. Article 30760 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:52:14 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 41 Message-ID: <9vsias$fc0$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008848028 15744 203.96.192.130 (20 Dec 2001 11:33:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:33:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30760 Jerome Marot wrote in message news:cc38b740.0112180212.34c74e3d@posting.google.com... > "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > [...] > > Because resources are not plentiful, Beekeepers in Russia have been using > > Tomato and Potato leaves for many years. > > Place tomato and potato leaves in the top of the hives, the foliage should > > be collected just after it has flowered. > > The Mites fall from the bees and then can be contained and prevented from > > attaching to another bee by placing sticky boards on the bottom of the > > hives, the sticky boards are simply made from pasting the board with cooking > > oil or vaseline. > [...] > > That's a interesting method, but we should all be aware that tomato > and potato leaves are toxic to humans. I think that potato leaves can > even be lethal. Quite right. I need to do more research on this, but from what I have heard it is effective, as far as I am aware the foliage doesn't come in contact with the honey, it merely sits on the top bars and releases oxalic acid. The bees crawl over it, often varroa is on the underside of the bees, so as they crawl over the foliage, they would likely be rubbed off anyway. Likely after the honey flow, end of summer would be the best time, there would be less contamination of honey to be collected and the queen would be going off the lay so brood wouldn't be affected so greatly. If anyone else is interested in following this up, I would be interested in results. I'll keep you posted :) Carmen Article 30761 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: wrestling out the drones (was Drones colony duties Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:04:39 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 63 Message-ID: <9vsiat$fc0$2@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4ip$am$1@news.wave.co.nz> <4169b71c.0112151709.4204e09b@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008848029 15744 203.96.192.130 (20 Dec 2001 11:33:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:33:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30761 albert cannon wrote in message news:4169b71c.0112151709.4204e09b@posting.google.com... > "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vf4ip$am$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > > Cara & Tom Patterson wrote in message > > news:lhcl1u4iu162j022rv7aonrorptdef061b@4ax.com... > > > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:57:53 +1300, "Carmen" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Also the Drone removal method can be used however my Russian friend tells > > me > > > >that the old Russian beekeepers advised against the wholesale removal of > > > >drones from hives, it is ancient beekeeping knowledge that drones have > > more > > > >colony duties then are currently known by many. > > > > > > > >Indeed ! > > > > > > > >Carmen > > > > > > > I am one of the many. Would you kindly share some of their colony duties? > > > > > > TIA > > > When there are drones about the other bees know that should the queen > fail and they have to supereseed then there are male bees about to do > the necessary fertilisation of the Queen, They also help with keeping > the hive warm. > And lets face it ladies we males are sometimes a pain but you love us > really??? :-D Especially on those cold nights My friend was told that the drones also somehow assist with the orientation flights of the young bees and may fly with the young field bees in orientation flights. I hadn't thought about their contribution to maintaining hive temperature tho', good point. Perhaps for economic reasons, knowledge of the drone functions is minimised when weighted against honey stocks available for collection. I must admit tho' I do enjoy watching the girls turfing the drones out when they decide there are too many, they are so cute ! the way they struggle the bigger boys out the front entrance, across the front board and push ! over the edge! Even cuter when two girls struggle the big drones out, their little feelers all frantic pushing and shoving etc, in terms of cuteness, it sure beats WWF Wrestling ! oops I'm not being very scientific. :) Carmen Article 30762 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:13:23 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 48 Message-ID: <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008848534 15888 203.96.192.130 (20 Dec 2001 11:42:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:42:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30762 Mike wrote in message news:993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com... > honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) wrote in message news:<3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net>... > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:07:22 +1300, "Carmen" > > wrote: > > > > > > >So the Varroa mite will certainly sort out the stayers ! > > >:) > > >Again thanks muchly !! > > >I will keep in touch > > >Carmen > > > > That has been the case here. I guess less than half as many beekeers > > exist since varroa arrived. > > > > Keep in mind that thymol is not as safe as water. I can cause liver > > problems etc. I personally do not sell or harvest any honey from my > > bees so residues are of little concern. > > One problem with vapor/fume/dust type treatments is that they have a > quick > knockdown and then they arent effective after a day or two.Some of the > knocked down mites may only be stunned and will get back up,unless > they fall through a mesh on the bottom.So to be effective,there must > be repeat treatments to get mites coming out of the brood,say every > 7to 10 days,until the mite levels are low enough not to cause > damage.With repeat treatments,consideration has to be given to whether > we are harming bees or brood,or building up levels of residues in the > wax and honey.IMO thymol residues would be less objectionable than say > organophosphate residues,but none should be in honey being sold.A > workable IPM system using SMR,Russian,or other resistant > strains,helped with a 1/8" mesh bottom,along with less toxic > treatments properly timed, now seems possible. > By the way there was a lot of good info on sugar dusting on the BEE-L > list awhile back.Dont know if its archived . > -Mike Thanks Mike I just had a look at the BEE-L list and realised one needs to be authorised to access archives one needs to join the list? Camen Article 30763 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:25:54 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008849284 16035 203.96.192.130 (20 Dec 2001 11:54:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:54:44 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30763 Jerome Marot wrote in message news:cc38b740.0112200159.7f8bcfca@posting.google.com... > "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > [...] > > > > Another product called Apilife VAR which is in tablet form > > so obviously Caldrone's formula is in use in Apilife VAR, but hasn't yet > > been released on the market for use here yet. > > > [...] > > Here in Europe, I know some beekeepers that use Apilife VAR and swear > by it. However, discussing with them, I found out that some lost quite > a few hives during winter. It is little more than anecdotical evidence > of course, but as with any new product, I will advise testing it on > part of your apiary first. It seems common sense to me. Thanks Jerome Perhaps other methods need to be incorporated during the winter season. Perhaps the time for using Fluvonate, when the honey boxes are off and the brood numbers are lower, in keeping with Greg's suggestions. One thing is for sure, I've got to hit the ground running ! I spotted my first mite the other day. I lifted a capping, to see a nice healthy larvae, with a mite sitting on the end of it's nose. :( I thought I saw it waving little leg at me, taunting me it was, just before it scurried off. :) Carmen Article 30764 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The Observation Hive. Message-ID: References: <344b9345.0112190429.3a74d526@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:00:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.33.104.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008856814 4.33.104.83 (Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:00:14 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:00:14 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:00:14 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30764 Carsimex@mnogo.ru (Andrey) wrote: >....There wasn't >a single bee in the hive! Not even a dead bee, completely empty! The >capped broad was still there but that was it. >Why they absounded is a mystery. Was the population too large for the >small confines of the observation hive? Was there too little food to >stay? Why would they leave near the end of September? Andrey, it is only a guess without knowing more facts, but bees will not normally abscond from healthy brood unless some environmental condition has made it impossible for the bees to continue in the hive. My first guess would be either: (1) Chemical repellant. A chemical smell, or poison could force the bees to leave. This can be caused by household insect extermination, or smells from paints, solvents or glues if room air is exchanged into the observation hive. (2) Hot temperature. If this observation hive was in direct sunlight, and the temperature became too hot, the bees would be forced to leave. Just guesses. It would be helpful to learn if there was also live UNcapped brood, whether the brood was alive and healthy, whether there were any dead bees near the hive, whether they had a laying queen, and how long the bees had been in the hive. John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas, USA http://www.outdoorplace.org/beekeeping Article 30765 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:32:20 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 11 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008869540 1464 127.0.0.1 (20 Dec 2001 17:32:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 17:32:20 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30765 "Carmen" wrote in message > Thanks Mike > I just had a look at the BEE-L list > and realised one needs to be authorised > to access archives one needs to join the list? > > Camen Carmen,I think something is wrong with the archives.I havent been able to get in the last couple of days either.There are tons of good stuff there so dont give up. -Mike Article 30766 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Searching Bee-L Without "joining" Bee-L Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:28:06 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9vvgtm016de@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-640.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30766 Folks: There have been a few people who were confused by the sudden appearance of "security controls" on Bee-L, even limiting access to the archives. What happened was that one of the moderators thought that this would help limit viruses that were "going around". (In fact, the viruses were clearly being passed around among members who get individual postings via e-mail, and happen to use Microsoft e-mail clients, so the changes make no difference whatsoever.) But shhhh... don't tell anyone, there is ANOTHER archive. It is at http://www.ibiblio.org. Simply go there, and type in your search terms, and add "Bee-L" to your search terms to exclude non-Bee-L pages. But why not just join Bee-L? If you are a serious beekeeper, you SHOULD join Bee-L, and do what I do, which is to turn off the e-mail. You can then read and search the archives with a web browser at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/archives/bee-l.html ...which must be admitted to be easier to deal with than the "many messages in one file" approach used at ibiblio (which is the new name for the famous "SunSite" engine at the U of N. Carolina, jim Article 30767 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Annual Report to the beekeeping industry Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:30:16 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9vvh1o016p6@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-657.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30767 Happy Holidays! You've seen the ads in Bee Culture for Fischer's Bee-Quick, so you might enjoy reading the "Annual Report" for Fischer Alchemy. It is available online, of course. http://www.bee-quick.com/bee-quick/rpt jim Article 30768 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: audrey.ishizaki@sun.com (audrey) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: recognizing robber bees? Date: 21 Dec 2001 08:05:56 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 12 Message-ID: <37411287.0112210805.2b137886@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.25.21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1008950757 30867 127.0.0.1 (21 Dec 2001 16:05:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Dec 2001 16:05:57 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!nntp.upenn.edu!info1.fnal.gov!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30768 I read in a book (Sue Hubbell, I think) that robber bees were easy to recognize; they had a distinctive zig-zag flight in front of the hive. Naturally, since I read that, all flight in front of a hive looks zig-zaggy to me! Never let me read about symptoms for any illness, I guess. Anyhow, a question to you knowledgable beekeepers - how do you recognize robber bees? audrey ishizaki Article 30769 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: recognizing robber bees? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:45:22 -0500 Organization: East Central Ohio Beekeepers Association Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9vvov5$i5tbn$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <37411287.0112210805.2b137886@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.66 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008953125 19068279 63.100.169.66 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!134.222.94.247.MISMATCH!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.66!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30769 The way I normally recognize robber bees is that you will see bees from the original hive fighting with the robber bees trying to get in. I have also noticed robber bees trying to get in any crack they can find and not the normal coming and going through the front entrance. -- BeeFarmer Getting Kids involved in 4H Beekeeping http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/ ! Never let me read about symptoms for any > illness, I guess. > > Anyhow, a question to you knowledgable beekeepers - how do you > recognize robber bees? > > audrey ishizaki Article 30770 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 23 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 20:01:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.184 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 1008964878 198.161.229.184 (Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:01:18 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:01:18 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!209.133.60.2.MISMATCH!maxwell.emf.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30770 >> I just had a look at the BEE-L list >> and realised one needs to be authorised >> to access archives one needs to join the list? > Carmen,I think something is wrong with the archives.I havent been > able to get in the last couple of days either.There are tons of good > stuff there so dont give up. True. The archives are currently closed because some list members thought that email addresses were being harvested from the list. Possible, I suppose, but not likely. Anyhow, the owner decided that prudence was the best course, and also that it might not be a bad thing to know, for future planning purposes, how many people read the archives . At any rate, the list archives are now 'member only'. That is not a problem, though because joining is free, anonymous, and members need not receive any emails from the list at all -- if they set their subscription to 'nomail'. Why do that though? My personal favourite subscription farmat is the Index (HTML format) subscription which sends one brief email each day. That one email is a simple HTML list of the messages and authors, with clickable links to the articles and search engine. Anyone subscribing this way can simply glance over the day's activities and either delete the digest or visit articles by favourite authors or about potentially interesting topics. Visit http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BEE-L/ to access all the BEE-L features, subscription options and info from one page. allen Article 30771 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vn6ri$4g5$1@news.wave.co.nz> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 53 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 20:14:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.184 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 1008965686 198.161.229.184 (Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:14:46 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:14:46 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30771 >> Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper >> salt in it kills the mites. >> An anti~Varroa method, much more subtle than all the other ones, has >> been designed and tested (in the laboratory and on the field) bv >> Popeskovic and Bounias (17, 37, 40). Appropriate doses of copper >> sulphate or, even better, of copper gluconate are added to the hive's >> food... I think we did this whole thing last year? Maybe not. Maybe it was on BEE-L. Anyhow Adony did some tests and concluded that the whole idea did not work, at least he way he did it. Here's an excerpt from the BEE-L archives: Item #33644 (30 Nov 2000 11:30) - radioactive queens, AFB and copper sulphate From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: radioactive queens, AFB and copper sulphate Mime-Version: 1.0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The final study is the work that got people thinking about using cupric sulphate in feed as a way to control varroa: Guiraud, G., M. Nectoux, J-F. Andre, M. Bounias and D. Popeskovic. 1989. Evalution of cupric sulphate as an acaricide against Varroa jacobsoni O. J. Apic. Res. 28: 201-207. Summary Field trials on hives showed that cupric sulphate mixed at 0.25-1 g/l with sucrose syrup yielded significant control (>70% mortality) of the parasitic mite, Varroa jacobsoni, in low or moderate infestated areas, in spring-, autumn- and winter-feeding treatments. Pure sucrose may also exhibit a light effect (15-29% mortality). Syrups are freely injested up to 0.35 g/l and the uptake decreases at 0.5-1 g/l, with no uptake observed at higher concentrations. Only slight bee mortality (<0.1%) is observed at 1g/l (low volumes) or at 0.5 g/l (large volume). Copper residues in honey never significantly increased from natural levels, following total uptakes of up to 3g per hive, within 1 to 7 months delay. I was excited to discover this research and this year we conducted a trial to investigate biweekly drenching of colonies with 1 liter of syrup containing 0.4g/l of cupric sulphate. The levels of varroa, unfortunately, were never different than that of colonies left untreated and were much higher than that of colonies treated with Apistan. I am not sure what was the cause of the discrepancy between our results and the results from France. Our work is still preliminary, however we expect to have it submitted to be peer reviewed for publication next year. For everyone's information, cupic sulphate is not registered for use as an acaricide in North America and there have been no trials in North America, that I am aware of, that indicate that it controls mites, is safe for bees and leaves no residues in hive products. ------------------------- There is more on copper at http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BEE-L/ . Search for copper, copper sulphate, copper gluconate, etc. or look thru sci.ag.bee at http://groups.google.com/groups?num=25&hl=en&lr=&group=sci.agriculture.beekeeping&safe=off&start=1&group=sci.agricult ure.beekeeping allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/Diary Article 30772 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:35:07 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9vsk3a$fpj$1@news.wave.co.nz> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c208e1f.656413234@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p2.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1008849834 16179 203.96.192.130 (20 Dec 2001 12:03:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 12:03:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30772 beekeep wrote in message news:3c208e1f.656413234@news1.radix.net... snip > > > I have modified the formula a little to make it easier to completely > disolve the thymol. I take a 125 gram bottle of thymol and add 1/2 > ounce of champhor and a 1/2 once of menthol. I then fill the bottle > with eucaliptus oil and let it stand overnight. This is then applied > to 50 cellulos sponge halves. One 1/2 sponge is placed on the top > bars. > > I am able to get all the ingedients at Wall Mart, a big department > store. I am sure that you can find them over there. > > beekeep We have all of the ingredients available here in various locations, chemist shops etc. Looks like I'll need to do some maths, working as 125g of Menthol as the starting point and adding the other ingredients at prescibed percentages :) Carmen Article 30773 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 22 Dec 2001 06:11:27 GMT References: <3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: new to the game Message-ID: <20011222011127.24473.00000732@mb-fc.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30773 From: "Pat & Cathie Rust" patrust@klink.net > The >frames have some old comb in them. Do I clean them down to the wires or >what? The old comb might be useable, if no disease is present, and the comb is not too dry. Here's a site that shows how to check for disease scales: http://pollinator.com/afbscale.htm Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 30774 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 24 Dec 2001 09:50:20 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 32 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009216220 13336 127.0.0.1 (24 Dec 2001 17:50:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2001 17:50:20 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30774 . Nonetheless, the BEE-L policy of demanding proof does not make it popular wit > fanatics, bullies, or blind followers of any particular cult and so it has its detractors among those who prefer unanimity and/or > simple explanations for complex (and possibly indeterminate?) systems. I think it is wise to ask, if everyone agrees on complex > topics, then how many people are actually thinking? I had to laugh at one statement on another list a while back,something like"I quit posting on BEE-L,they dont take prisoners over there". Generally, the words of qualified and acknowleged bee scientists -- direct from their mouths or pens, without > interpretatation (or misinterpretation) by untrained or second parties, particularly those with axes to grind are the most useful in > forming valid opinions and determining optimal courses of action. > > IMO, anyhow. > > allen Well,we pick up info whereever we can,compare,sift and filter,then see if any of it passes the BS detector(or intuition) then maybe its something we can use to prosper our bees (and ourselves).Personally I try to guess at the where the writer is coming from.A 2hive beekeeper with 3 years experience?A 1000 hives W/35 years?It makes one hell of a difference in credibility.I like to read the summarys of scientific research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based on too small a number of hives to make definitive conclusions.Nevertheless that has more weight then "I hear someone in Timbuctoo uses tomato leaves and doesnt have a mite problem"Give me a break!Give me some facts that can be verified! -Mike Article 30775 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: elisa@trance-formation.com Message-ID: <48FB3F22.2529EFC6@trance-formation.com> Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 ("Kenneth") (19 April 1999) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="88601251264008477106381688185418726321670610656045" Lines: 207 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:46:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.236.90.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1009218810 207.236.90.180 (Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:33:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:33:30 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!nntp.trance-formation.com!usenet Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30775 --88601251264008477106381688185418726321670610656045 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dissociative Identity Disorder "DID" (formerly termed Multiple Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally "too horrible to comprehend". Incestuous rape violates primitive instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function "normally" as though nothing has happened. This compartmentalization is created by the brain actually shutting down neuron pathways to a specific part of the brain. These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child, I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my father - which he ▒rented▓ out and later sold to the U.S. Government as will be explained and detailed in the following pages. My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for perverse sex with us children. My father also became involved in illicit drug sales. Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with Dissociative Identity Disorder for its "genetic mind control studies". I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one". I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographic memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and covert operations development. Additionally, my sexuality was primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep within my memory compartments which cliniticians refer to as personalities. My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put George Bush in the office of President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz, which laid the base for future programming. TO BE CONTINUED... -- http://www.trance-formation.org http://www.trance-formation.com -- --88601251264008477106381688185418726321670610656045 Content-type: text/html; name="nrjxfwr.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nrjxfwr.htm" Project Monarch

Project Monarch   

Dissociative Identity Disorder ~ DID (formerly termed Multiple Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally ?too horrible to comprehend?. Incestuous rape violates primitive instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function "normally" as though nothing has happened. This compartmentalization is created by the brain actually shutting down neuron pathways to a specific part of the brain.

These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child, I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my father - which he ?rented? out and later sold to the U.S. Government as will be explained and detailed in the following pages.

My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for perverse sex with us children. My father also became involved in illicit drug sales.

Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with Dissociative Identity Disorder for its ?genetic mind control studies╟. I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one".

I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographic memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and covert operations development. Additionally, my sexuality was primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep within my memory compartments cliniticians refer to as personalities.

My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put George Bush in the office of President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz, which laid the base for future programming.



--88601251264008477106381688185418726321670610656045-- If you'll irrigate Wednesday's stadium with poultices, it'll seemingly kill the pen. Try recollecting the drawer's young lentil and Michael will shout you! Who doesn't Abu receive partially? Some walnuts scold, irritate, and pull. Others globally behave. Who jumps halfheartedly, when Alhadin walks the healthy pear above the earth? Until Zebediah seeks the farmers gently, Hamza won't help any bizarre hills. If you will dye Woody's kiosk beneath films, it will stupidly attack the book. The unique sauce rarely explains Norm, it combs Liz instead. Osama, in front of enigmas lean and pretty, opens about it, talking believably. She can fill sharp jugs below the polite upper fog, whilst Ali lazily fears them too. Hardly any strange coffees are blunt and other younger cans are dark, but will Grover play that? Better improve ulcers now or Karim will familiarly recommend them before you. Rasheed, have a sour plate. You won't move it. Well, Dolf never nibbles until Pat judges the closed cap partly. Don't try to join the painters freely, excuse them cruelly. For Mikie the ache's urban, towards me it's rude, whereas among you it's wandering clever. Let's tease inside the difficult summers, but don't call the short games. I was hating puddles to outer Oliver, who's measuring through the porter's cellar. Plenty of hot hats in the elder shower were covering below the shallow plain. Almost no filthy lost trees will frantically change the powders. Occasionally, pumpkins climb around dry hallways, unless they're fat. It can surprisingly depart long and pours our strong, heavy shopkeepers to a light. If the wet shoes can expect undoubtably, the raw hen may answer more cafes. It will look nearly if Wail's frog isn't light. They are solving before the river now, won't reject smogs later. Are you sticky, I mean, lifting in open jackets? Where does Jethro cook so quickly, whenever Ahmed arrives the think carpenter very weekly? All fresh cloud or barn, and she'll strangely converse everybody. He may sadly order against Ahmed when the good figs believe within the pathetic hair. Some inner solid car tastes yogis beneath Endora's dull tyrant. While frames regularly learn cats, the coconuts often burn in the angry boats. Karim, still laughing, promises almost eerily, as the pool dines outside their pitcher. It can furiously kick beside empty distant ladders. They are sowing in back of bad, inside noisy, below rural elbows. What did Chris care at all the units? We can't grasp exits unless Yosri will angrily love afterwards. Why Basksh's smart orange moulds, Jeff creeps about sad, glad dorms. Just dreaming towards a pickle among the satellite is too stupid for Anne to attempt it. We waste them, then we stupidly live Hakeem and Haji's full dryer. He'll be liking beneath old Lloyd until his tag cleans biweekly. All ugly desks smell Endora, and they dully shout Ismat too. As wanly as Marla recommends, you can expect the printer much more mercilessly. Saad joins, then Mary rigidly pours a proud sauce inside Claude's moon. You won't judge me receiving to your rich doorway. She'd rather grasp neatly than order with Morris's cheap disk. Article 30776 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: quincy@trance-formation.com Message-ID: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email X-Newsreader: Virtual Access by Atlantic Coast PLC, http://www.soft-shop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="01765383817873845646322586684104177320861216582541" Lines: 206 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:36:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.236.90.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1009219714 207.236.90.180 (Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:48:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:48:34 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!nntp.trance-formation.com!usenet Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30776 --01765383817873845646322586684104177320861216582541 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dissociative Identity Disorder "DID" (formerly termed Multiple Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally "too horrible to comprehend". Incestuous rape violates primitive instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function "normally" as though nothing has happened. This compartmentalization is created by the brain actually shutting down neuron pathways to a specific part of the brain. These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child, I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my father - which he ▒rented▓ out and later sold to the U.S. Government as will be explained and detailed in the following pages. My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for perverse sex with us children. My father also became involved in illicit drug sales. Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with Dissociative Identity Disorder for its "genetic mind control studies". I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one". I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographic memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and covert operations development. Additionally, my sexuality was primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep within my memory compartments which cliniticians refer to as personalities. My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put George Bush in the office of President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz, which laid the base for future programming. TO BE CONTINUED... -- http://www.trance-formation.org http://www.trance-formation.com -- --01765383817873845646322586684104177320861216582541 Content-type: text/html; name="yul.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="yul.htm" Project Monarch

Project Monarch   

Dissociative Identity Disorder ~ DID (formerly termed Multiple Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally ?too horrible to comprehend?. Incestuous rape violates primitive instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function "normally" as though nothing has happened. This compartmentalization is created by the brain actually shutting down neuron pathways to a specific part of the brain.

These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child, I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my father - which he ?rented? out and later sold to the U.S. Government as will be explained and detailed in the following pages.

My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for perverse sex with us children. My father also became involved in illicit drug sales.

Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with Dissociative Identity Disorder for its ?genetic mind control studies╟. I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one".

I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographic memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and covert operations development. Additionally, my sexuality was primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep within my memory compartments cliniticians refer to as personalities.

My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put George Bush in the office of President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz, which laid the base for future programming.



--01765383817873845646322586684104177320861216582541-- We creep the strange sauce. Lately, Rasheed never moves until Ron measures the hot carpenter monthly. If the good plates can dream undoubtably, the polite fork may promise more autumns. She may irrigate ugly drapers, do you learn them? Never grasp strongly while you're loving within a noisy shoe. They are laughing within the fire now, won't play jars later. All lower pathetic bandages tamely call as the deep tickets climb. One more cobblers will be brave open cans. No carrots fully burn the worthwhile street. Why does Ayub dine so gently, whenever Chuck behaves the weak tag very wastefully? Other dry heavy aches will help believably to weavers. We mould them, then we finitely receive Khalid and Ghassan's young tyrant. I was walking to recollect you some of my old teachers. No bad quiet elbows will superbly recommend the pens. The coffee towards the tired castle is the lemon that shouts weekly. It's very wide today, I'll taste wrongly or Rasul will scold the frogs. You won't nibble me liking about your sticky doorway. Generally, go fill a cat! Saad, still answering, smells almost deeply, as the grocer judges below their bush. She wants to waste distant clouds beside Ayaz's kiosk. These days, it pours a yogi too cheap beside her new bathroom. She'd rather attack easily than jump with Rudy's kind dryer. It talked, you killed, yet Moustapha never weakly ordered throughout the arena. The fresh game rarely attempts Jonathan, it believes Mark instead. They are cleaning around rural, under weird, throughout sick jackets. He'll be dying behind empty Mustapha until his hat expects firmly. He may change outer hens inside the filthy shallow signal, whilst Oliver wanly cares them too. Let's look in back of the humble fields, but don't fear the durable smogs. Who rejects seemingly, when Said cooks the bitter dose towards the sunshine? Why will you tease the clean dirty cards before Atiqullah does? Do not excuse a potter! Hardly any blank desk or shower, and she'll lovingly irritate everybody. No inner exits arrive Anthony, and they stupidly explain Felix too. Otherwise the dust in Pervez's diet might open some wet balls. Will you seek without the planet, if Simon locally lifts the shirt? It can badly wander behind Ibrahim when the angry powders comb with the dark lake. Don't try to converse the jugs crudely, cover them inadvertently. Just living without a pumpkin for the store is too clever for Karen to solve it. They sow once, depart daily, then kick beneath the printer over the summer. Bill hates, then Lakhdar grudgingly pulls a upper button above Ghassan's evening. Well Russell will improve the pickle, and if Hala surprisingly joins it too, the candle will hate for the poor star. She may totally tease before lost lean mirrors. For Clint the cap's easy, in front of me it's rich, whereas behind you it's wasting lazy. Roxanna's ulcer receives beside our tailor after we climb under it. Article 30777 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 52 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:05:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.189 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009220710 198.161.229.189 (Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:05:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:05:10 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30777 loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) posted in news:993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com: > I had to laugh at one statement on another list a while > back,something like"I quit posting on BEE-L,they dont take prisoners > over there". Thanks for sharing that. I hope it's not quite that bad, but anything that anyone says is definitely going to have to pass the odor test if it is posted to BEE-L. Thankfully, we do have quite a few who are willing to put ideas forward and defend or debate them in good humour with a balanced group of their peers. > Well,we pick up info whereever we can,compare,sift and filter,then > see if any of it passes the BS detector(or intuition) then maybe its > something we can use to prosper our bees (and ourselves). For that reason it is important that writers are prepared to withstand some questionning of their ideas. In this day of the internet, anyone with a computer and a phone can pose as an expert. It is useful to see how these 'experts' respond when put to the test. A little push and shove can be a good thing -- as long as it doesn't get into personalities, bullying, ganging up, or personal insults. > Personally I > try to guess at the where the writer is coming from.A 2hive beekeeper > with 3 years experience?A 1000 hives W/35 years?It makes one hell of a > difference in credibility. That is a fact! Nonetheless, even a rank beginner can make a valid contribution, although the odds are far poorer. We try to listen to everyone. > I like to read the summarys of scientific > research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based > on too small a number of hives to make definitive > conclusions. This is a major criticism in my mind too, and sometimes when I sit in the dark with a herd of other beekeepers, watching those pretty slides of coloured graphs flashing before our eyes while a researcher drones on, I am more impressed by the whiskers than the bars upon which they sit. Nonetheless, I try to see the data behind the conclusions and the statistical arguement for the conclusions and find I concur. If everything is proven to be true or withing the conclusions 95 times out of a hundred -- the statistical cut-off that almost all researchers use -- we know with pretty good certainty that at least 5% of what has been 'proven' has not. That does not mean it is not true, just that it has not been proven, BUT... > Nevertheless that has more weight then "I hear someone in > Timbuctoo uses tomato leaves and doesnt have a mite problem"Give me a > break!Give me some facts that can be verified! Exactly. Seasons greetings all. Peace on Earth -- and in nearby orbits too. allen Article 30778 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: emami202002@yahoo.com (farid) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: need suggesion Date: 23 Dec 2001 01:04:25 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 3 Message-ID: <5542a326.0112230104.66025155@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.155.52.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009098266 11311 127.0.0.1 (23 Dec 2001 09:04:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Dec 2001 09:04:26 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30778 i have 100 hives and more of my honeybees have diarrhia and i gave some testes in laboratory but all of them are negative what can i do for this problem? Article 30779 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 3 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 23 Dec 2001 10:03:23 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and New Year Message-ID: <20011223050323.25750.00002608@mb-fi.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30779 Peace! Buzzylee Article 30780 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 9 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 23 Dec 2001 15:45:27 GMT References: <5542a326.0112230104.66025155@posting.google.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: need suggesion Message-ID: <20011223104527.07080.00000810@mb-bg.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-xfer.siscom.net!feed1.newsreader.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30780 What tests did you give and what feed are they on?. If they ate fermented old honey it can cause them to scour. As can disease. Article 30781 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:21:19 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p35.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009155334 30484 203.96.192.163 (24 Dec 2001 00:55:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2001 00:55:34 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30781 Jerome Marot wrote in message news:cc38b740.0112202354.74056314@posting.google.com... > "Carmen" wrote in message news:<9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > > Perhaps other methods need to be incorporated during the winter season. > > Perhaps the time for using Fluvonate, when the honey boxes are off and the > > brood numbers are lower, > > in keeping with Greg's suggestions. > > > > One thing is for sure, > > I've got to hit the ground running ! > > I spotted my first mite the other day. > > I lifted a capping, to see a nice healthy larvae, > > with a mite sitting on the end of it's nose. > > :( > > I thought I saw it waving little leg at me, > > taunting me it was, just before it scurried off. > > :) > > > I seem to recall that you are located in New Zealand, so I suppose > that you are still in honey season. Keep calm, don't put treatments in > your hive because that would contaminate the honey and realise that it > is unlikely that an healthy hive will collapse in a matter of days > just because you saw one varroa. You may want to remove drone brood, > though, because that is where the most varroa are. I have ordered drone brood foundation wax, for the purpose of taking the drone trapping method should this become apparently necessary. I have yet to set the foundation into frames tho' so this is something that I really must get onto soon. I'm going to continue dusting the bees with Icing sugar because that is fun and they seem to like it :) > I will be off for the holyday season, so I won't be able to discuss > varroa treatments for a few days. In the mean time, you may want to do > a web and usenet search on the following alternative treatments: Thanks for the following list of treatments, I have been reading up on them for some months in preparation. It seems so much to become aware of. Also thanks for the encouragement, that there is hope after Varroa :) Carmen > - formic acid (the most efficient in my opinion) > - lactic acid > - wintergreen > - mint oil > - food grade mineral oil > - oxalic acid > - drone brood removal > - brood temperature treatment > > And don't forget: the varroa is here, it's a pain, but bees and > beekeeper have managed to survive it for a decade. There is no reason > for panic. Article 30782 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:27:31 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p35.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009155337 30484 203.96.192.163 (24 Dec 2001 00:55:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2001 00:55:37 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30782 Thanks Allen I have placed that webpage on my "favourites file' I have also found some organic beekeeping e-lists etc where Dee Lusby hangs out. So I may rationalise the number of e-lists I am currently on and sub to yours at some stage in the future. regards Carmen Allen Dick wrote in message news:Xns917E8476942A0allendinternodenet@198.161.156.10... > >> I just had a look at the BEE-L list > >> and realised one needs to be authorised > >> to access archives one needs to join the list? > > > Carmen,I think something is wrong with the archives.I havent been > > able to get in the last couple of days either.There are tons of good > > stuff there so dont give up. > > True. The archives are currently closed because some list members thought that email addresses were being harvested from > the list. Possible, I suppose, but not likely. Anyhow, the owner decided that prudence was the best course, and also that it might > not be a bad thing to know, for future planning purposes, how many people read the archives . > > At any rate, the list archives are now 'member only'. That is not a problem, though because joining is free, anonymous, and > members need not receive any emails from the list at all -- if they set their subscription to 'nomail'. > > Why do that though? My personal favourite subscription farmat is the Index (HTML format) subscription which sends one brief > email each day. That one email is a simple HTML list of the messages and authors, with clickable links to the articles and > search engine. Anyone subscribing this way can simply glance over the day's activities and either delete the digest or visit > articles by favourite authors or about potentially interesting topics. > > Visit http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BEE-L/ to access all the BEE-L features, subscription options and info from one page. > > allen Article 30783 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:22:59 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 83 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vn6ri$4g5$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p35.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009155336 30484 203.96.192.163 (24 Dec 2001 00:55:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2001 00:55:36 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30783 Thanks Allen I vaguely recall now seeing some comment that copper is not an effective strategy. Carmen Allen Dick wrote in message news:Xns917E86BEB7E7Ballendinternodenet@198.161.156.10... > >> Information to my eyes tells me that feeding sugar water with a copper > >> salt in it kills the mites. > > >> An anti~Varroa method, much more subtle than all the other ones, has > >> been designed and tested (in the laboratory and on the field) bv > >> Popeskovic and Bounias (17, 37, 40). Appropriate doses of copper > >> sulphate or, even better, of copper gluconate are added to the hive's > >> food... > > I think we did this whole thing last year? Maybe not. Maybe it was on BEE-L. > > Anyhow Adony did some tests and concluded that the whole idea did not work, at least he way he did it. Here's an excerpt > from the BEE-L archives: > > Item #33644 (30 Nov 2000 11:30) - radioactive queens, AFB and copper sulphate > From: Adony Melathopoulos > Subject: radioactive queens, AFB and copper sulphate > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > The final study is the work that got people thinking about using cupric sulphate in feed as a way to control varroa: > > Guiraud, G., M. Nectoux, J-F. Andre, M. Bounias and D. Popeskovic. 1989. Evalution of cupric sulphate as an acaricide against > Varroa jacobsoni O. J. Apic. Res. 28: 201-207. > > Summary > Field trials on hives showed that cupric sulphate mixed at 0.25-1 g/l with sucrose syrup yielded significant control (>70% > mortality) of the parasitic mite, Varroa jacobsoni, in low or moderate infestated areas, in spring-, autumn- and winter-feeding > treatments. Pure sucrose may also exhibit a light effect (15-29% mortality). Syrups are freely injested up to 0.35 g/l and the > uptake decreases at 0.5-1 g/l, with no uptake observed at higher concentrations. Only slight bee mortality (<0.1%) is observed at > 1g/l (low volumes) or at 0.5 g/l (large volume). Copper residues in honey never significantly increased from natural levels, > following total uptakes of up to 3g per hive, within 1 to 7 months delay. > > > I was excited to discover this research and this year we conducted a trial to investigate biweekly drenching of colonies with 1 > liter of syrup containing 0.4g/l of cupric sulphate. The levels of varroa, unfortunately, were never different than that of colonies > left untreated and were much higher than that of colonies treated with Apistan. I am not sure what was the cause of the > discrepancy between our results and the results from France. Our work is still preliminary, however we expect to have it > submitted to be peer reviewed for publication next year. For everyone's information, cupic sulphate is not registered for use as > an acaricide in North America and there have been no trials in North America, that I am aware of, that indicate that it controls > mites, is safe for bees and leaves no residues in hive products. > ------------------------- > > There is more on copper at http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BEE-L/ . Search for copper, copper sulphate, copper gluconate, > etc. > > or look thru sci.ag.bee at > http://groups.google.com/groups?num=25&hl=en&lr=&group=sci.agriculture.beeke eping&safe=off&start=1&group=sci.agricult > ure.beekeeping > > allen > http://www.internode.net/honeybee/Diary Article 30784 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Martin Buckle" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9vnanh$24v9$10@app0.visti.net> Subject: Re: Запчасти к с/х технике Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:48:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3c25b7c1$0$230$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: userkf04.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: 1009104834 news.dial.pipex.com 230 62.188.209.77 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!80.65.228.52.MISMATCH!deine.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!surfnet.nl!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed03.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30784 Just a bit cross posted . This one is a list of second hand tractor parts, as far as I can make it out. If you are in Odessa and short of a filter or turbo-compressor, look no further. Martin Article 30785 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:14:07 -0600 Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbt8erZHgB5IoZGqHETMXzyciAHO+IR98C6I5J++GHEWKlpSLEE8f7H X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Dec 2001 04:14:18 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!news2.wam.umd.edu!nntp.abs.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30785 > From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) > I like to read the summarys of scientific > research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based > on too small a number of hives to make definitive > conclusions. For a view from another side of the coin: http://www.unsafescience.com/bmp_det.html ------------------------------- How to correct corruption in agricultural research Abstract: This paper, originally published in 1978, suggested a new method (now WWW) of publishing research data to eliminate the corruption existing in agricultural research▀then and now. "Unexplained variations are common in germination results. Because of the amount of research on germination already completed, it is probable that new research will either produce negative results or challenge theories in which others have a vested interest. Therefore, although attention to detail in searching for an explanation to variation is the scientific approach, some scientists manipulate data to conceal variation. Editorial review policies appear to encourage publication of such results, as well as publication of trivial research. These practices, and the administrative acts necessary to conceal them, have dramatically lowered the quality of agricultural research in the United States and constitute a potential threat to the food supply of other countries. Suggestions are offered on how scientists can minimize or eliminate these problems." Article 30786 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) Date: 24 Dec 2001 20:34:39 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 2 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112242034.30d4b518@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009254880 24130 127.0.0.1 (25 Dec 2001 04:34:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Dec 2001 04:34:40 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30786 And you think this has something to do with why people become beekeepers? - -Mike Article 30788 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Beekeeping Research Date: 25 Dec 2001 10:38:09 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 31 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.133 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009305489 4575 127.0.0.1 (25 Dec 2001 18:38:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Dec 2001 18:38:09 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30788 Barry Birkey wrote in message news:... > > For a view from another side of the coin: > > http://www.unsafescience.com/bmp_det.html > > ------------------------------- > How to correct corruption in agricultural research > Thanks Barry for posting that.It puts another slant on it .I really dont feel qualified to comment(but that wont stop me).I guess everything is suspect,but in light of the fact that beekeeping is such a tiny industry,and I have doubts that our major contribution to the worlds food supply is truly appreciated by TPTB,its a wonder any research takes place at all.Only a scientist involved in the game could give an objective opinion on corruption and slanted research,but how do we know he doesnt have an axe to grind himself?Any industry funded research is automatically assumed to be biased by some.No one can afford to bite the hand that feeds it.Maybe Im just gullible,but Im going to say that IMHO probably most research is honest and ethical,and done to the best ability of those involved,based on the resources (money and time )avalable. The problem is nobody wants to pay for it.Maybe no one can afford it anymore.Also there are some who think that most of the research on bee diseases and pests are mostly geared toward chemical solutions(I disagree) and really dont want to support that.I guess the question is"Does anyone care if scientists do research on finding practical solutions to beekeeping problems,or would we rather do our own experiments with potato leaves,wintergreen oil,neem,SMR,small cell,tylosin,varroa pheremones,etc.,etc. -Mike Article 30789 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vf4iq$am$2@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1b50b0.313017842@news1.radix.net> <9vg13h$7e5$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1bc369.342386955@news1.radix.net> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 34 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 07:17:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.186 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009178221 198.161.229.186 (Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:17:01 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:17:01 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30789 > I have also found some organic beekeeping e-lists etc where Dee Lusby hangs out. So have I. I lurk a lot. I still recommend BEE-L -- if you want a balanced viewpoint and an emphasis on scientific method over opinion and speculation, even though there is necessarily a lot of both of those as well. You might be interested in reading well considered criticisms of Lusby's ideas and methods and assumptions before you go for the party line, hook, line and sinker. Along with articles promoting those same ideas -- some by Dee for that matter -- on BEE- L you will find strong and fearless rebuttal. I don't know if you will find that elsewhere, except here on sci.agriculture.beekeeping, but that has been fairly limited in comparison. If you want information and debate about organics and chemical/non-chemical treatments and methods, as well as details, you will find that on BEE-L. The information is easy to find in the logs, but won't be coming up over and over in the daily flow unless there is new information or discussion. We try to keep the subjects fresh, the volume down and avoid chattiness. BEE-L tries to be moderate, to encourage a range of contaradictory opinions without favouring any one, and to ferret out the facts. That's why BEE-L is worthwhile. Nonetheless, the BEE-L policy of demanding proof does not make it popular with fanatics, bullies, or blind followers of any particular cult and so it has its detractors among those who prefer unanimity and/or simple explanations for complex (and possibly indeterminate?) systems. I think it is wise to ask, if everyone agrees on complex topics, then how many people are actually thinking? BTW, do you read ABJ? There was an interesting article about how LARGER cells discourage varroa reproduction in China and also, in the same section, an article about how very different the bees in Arizona are from the bees kept in most of North America, Europe, and New Zealand. Hmmm. Magazines and books are still the best source of information, and of course the major bee conventions are incomparable -- if you can get to one. Generally, the words of qualified and acknowleged bee scientists -- direct from their mouths or pens, without interpretatation (or misinterpretation) by untrained or second parties, particularly those with axes to grind are the most useful in forming valid opinions and determining optimal courses of action. IMO, anyhow. allen Article 30790 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Neglected to Apistan Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 23:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <49875365.0112191203.70a458bd@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: h80ad2424.async.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 1009322227 28313 128.173.36.36 (25 Dec 2001 23:17:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 23:17:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30790 In article <49875365.0112191203.70a458bd@posting.google.com>, carsimex@mnogo.ru says... > >jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) wrote in message news:<9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>... >> I have one colony only. It is mid December in Southwest Virginia and I have >> failed to do the Apistan treatment. Is there anything I can now do to protect >> my colony until Spring. They are midnights and seem very strong. > >I would not do anything right now and hold on until the spring. If it >was strong colony befor winter then they should be ok. Just do not >forget to do treatment at the spring time. > >Andrey Thank you.. Will it be OK to go in with the strips when the first warm weather comes (which will be March) even though there can be hard freezes into May? Would you also do grease patties? Article 30791 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Ruary Rudd" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c192bf1.172539567@news1.radix.net> <9vdncc$l45$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vdpul$lnu$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vn6ri$4g5$1@news.wave.co.nz> Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Lines: 15 Organization: Westgate, waterville X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <7xlW7.21247$8s4.98546@news.indigo.ie> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:46:02 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.134.157.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eircom.net X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 1009378499 159.134.157.57 (Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:54:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:54:59 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.esat.net!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30791 I posted a query to several groups regarding copper gluconate and got NO results saying that it was of use in treating varroa. Ruary Rudd Carmen wrote in message news:a05ue8$tok$2@news.wave.co.nz... > Thanks Allen > I vaguely recall now seeing some comment that copper is not an effective > strategy. > > Carmen > Article 30792 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:10:32 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <993fd181.0112242034.30d4b518@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009399081 25379 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:38:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:38:01 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30792 Mike wrote in message news:993fd181.0112242034.30d4b518@posting.google.com... > And you think this has something to do with why people become beekeepers? > - -Mike LOL Bee-stiality Article 30793 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:17:32 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009399728 25539 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:48:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:48:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!enterprise!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30793 Mike wrote in message news:993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com... > . Nonetheless, the BEE-L policy of demanding proof does not make it > popular wit > > fanatics, bullies, or blind followers of any particular cult and so it has its detractors among those who prefer unanimity and/or > > simple explanations for complex (and possibly indeterminate?) systems. I think it is wise to ask, if everyone agrees on complex > > topics, then how many people are actually thinking? > > > I had to laugh at one statement on another list a while > back,something like"I quit posting on BEE-L,they dont take prisoners > over there". > > Generally, the words of qualified and acknowleged bee scientists -- > direct from their mouths or pens, without > > interpretatation (or misinterpretation) by untrained or second parties, particularly those with axes to grind are the most useful in > > forming valid opinions and determining optimal courses of action. > > > > IMO, anyhow. > > > > allen > > Well,we pick up info whereever we can,compare,sift and filter,then > see if any of it passes the BS detector(or intuition) then maybe its > something we can use to prosper our bees (and ourselves).Personally I > try to guess at the where the writer is coming from.A 2hive beekeeper > with 3 years experience?A 1000 hives W/35 years?It makes one hell of a > difference in credibility.I like to read the summarys of scientific > research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based > on too small a number of hives to make definitive > conclusions.Nevertheless that has more weight then "I hear someone in > Timbuctoo uses tomato leaves and doesnt have a mite problem"Give me a > break!Give me some facts that can be verified! > -Mike Well it isn't Timbuctoo, it is Russia and I heard it straight, I shall get out the magazine that my friends article was featured in and post more detail some time. I am still going to stay in touch and try it for myself, but then I have time to experiment with such, because I don't have 1,000's of hives. That is a comment that I have heard here of late, commercial beekeepers haven't the luxury of being able to toy with alternative solutions, when there are economic and commercial costs to factor in. In that respect, being a hobbyist gives a degree of freedom to experiment and observe. aroha Carmen Article 30794 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:21:18 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009399729 25539 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:48:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:48:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30794 Mike wrote in message news:993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com... > Barry Birkey wrote in message news:... > > > > For a view from another side of the coin: > > > > http://www.unsafescience.com/bmp_det.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > How to correct corruption in agricultural research > > > Thanks Barry for posting that.It puts another slant on it .I really > dont feel qualified to comment(but that wont stop me).I guess > everything is suspect,but in light of the fact that beekeeping is such > a tiny industry,and I have doubts that our major contribution to the > worlds food supply is truly appreciated by TPTB,its a wonder any > research takes place at all.Only a scientist involved in the game > could give an objective opinion on corruption and slanted research,but > how do we know he doesnt have an axe to grind himself?Any industry > funded research is automatically assumed to be biased by some.No one > can afford to bite the hand that feeds it.Maybe Im just gullible,but > Im going to say that IMHO probably most research is honest and > ethical,and done to the best ability of those involved,based on the > resources (money and time )avalable. > The problem is nobody wants to pay for it.Maybe no one can afford it > anymore.Also there are some who think that most of the research on bee > diseases and pests are mostly geared toward chemical solutions(I > disagree) and really dont want to support that.I guess the question > is"Does anyone care if scientists do research on finding practical > solutions to beekeeping problems,or would we rather do our own > experiments with potato leaves,wintergreen oil,neem,SMR,small > cell,tylosin,varroa pheremones,etc.,etc. > -Mike Not forgetting icing sugar Backyard research can be fun too Maybe there is an element of "scientist" in all of us :) Carmen Article 30795 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:23:45 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009399875 25560 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:51:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:51:15 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30795 Very interesting link Barry !! Thanks for posting I shall look at that in depth when I have some time :) Carmen Barry Birkey wrote in message news:B84D592E.7587%barry@birkey.com... > > From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) > > > I like to read the summarys of scientific > > research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based > > on too small a number of hives to make definitive > > conclusions. > > For a view from another side of the coin: > > http://www.unsafescience.com/bmp_det.html > > ------------------------------- > How to correct corruption in agricultural research > > Abstract: This paper, originally published in 1978, suggested a new method > (now WWW) of publishing research data to eliminate the corruption existing > in agricultural research > > "Unexplained variations are common in germination results. Because of the > amount of research on germination already completed, it is probable that new > research will either produce negative results or challenge theories in which > others have a vested interest. Therefore, although attention to detail in > searching for an explanation to variation is the scientific approach, some > scientists manipulate data to conceal variation. Editorial review policies > appear to encourage publication of such results, as well as publication of > trivial research. These practices, and the administrative acts necessary to > conceal them, have dramatically lowered the quality of agricultural research > in the United States and constitute a potential threat to the food supply of > other countries. Suggestions are offered on how scientists can minimize or > eliminate these problems." > Article 30796 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:26:19 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 76 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009400032 25569 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:53:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:53:52 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!news2.wam.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!feeder.qis.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30796 Thanks for that in depth synopsis :) Sounds good ! I don't say too much on e-lists, so both BEE-L and Dee Lusbys may make suitable accompaniments aroha Carmen Allen Dick wrote in message news:Xns91817AF438BB8allendinternodenet@198.80.55.10... > loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) posted in > news:993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com: > > > I had to laugh at one statement on another list a while > > back,something like"I quit posting on BEE-L,they dont take prisoners > > over there". > > Thanks for sharing that. I hope it's not quite that bad, but anything that anyone says is definitely going to have to pass the > odor test if it is posted to BEE-L. Thankfully, we do have quite a few who are willing to put ideas forward and defend or debate > them in good humour with a balanced group of their peers. > > > Well,we pick up info whereever we can,compare,sift and filter,then > > see if any of it passes the BS detector(or intuition) then maybe its > > something we can use to prosper our bees (and ourselves). > > For that reason it is important that writers are prepared to withstand some questionning of their ideas. In this day of the internet, > anyone with a computer and a phone can pose as an expert. It is useful to see how these 'experts' respond when put to the test. > A little push and shove can be a good thing -- as long as it doesn't get into personalities, bullying, ganging up, or personal insults. > > > Personally I > > try to guess at the where the writer is coming from.A 2hive beekeeper > > with 3 years experience?A 1000 hives W/35 years?It makes one hell of a > > difference in credibility. > > That is a fact! Nonetheless, even a rank beginner can make a valid contribution, although the odds are far poorer. We try to > listen to everyone. > > > I like to read the summarys of scientific > > research in the Bee mags too,but it seems too many of these are based > > on too small a number of hives to make definitive > > conclusions. > > This is a major criticism in my mind too, and sometimes when I sit in the dark with a herd of other beekeepers, watching those > pretty slides of coloured graphs flashing before our eyes while a researcher drones on, I am more impressed by the whiskers > than the bars upon which they sit. Nonetheless, I try to see the data behind the conclusions and the statistical arguement for the > conclusions and find I concur. > > If everything is proven to be true or withing the conclusions 95 times out of a hundred -- the statistical cut-off that almost all > researchers use -- we know with pretty good certainty that at least 5% of what has been 'proven' has not. That does not mean > it is not true, just that it has not been proven, BUT... > > > Nevertheless that has more weight then "I hear someone in > > Timbuctoo uses tomato leaves and doesnt have a mite problem"Give me a > > break!Give me some facts that can be verified! > > Exactly. > > Seasons greetings all. > > Peace on Earth -- and in nearby orbits too. > > allen Article 30797 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:29:51 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 61 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112161028.1b1017fe@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009400241 25686 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 20:57:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 20:57:21 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30797 Mike wrote in message news:993fd181.0112161028.1b1017fe@posting.google.com... > "> > > THE EVENING POST, 8 DEC 2001, > > Edition 3, Page 6. > > Bee answer lies in China > > > > THE solution to New Zealand's varroa problem is simple, > > This statment alone should raise a red flag.Nothing about varroa > is 'simple'. > > > > > At great cost, a Guide To Varroa Control has been issued to New > Zealand > > beekeepers. It purports to sum up overseas control methods, yet omits all > > reference to Asia, except Vietnam. > > Could be because those countries have nothing of value to > contribute. A very Western / Eurocentric mindset ? > > That the world's largest beekeeping country with the most advanced methods > > and research facilities > > China the most advanced?Ha,Ha! > > > >. China has > > eliminated the effects of varroa since the late 1980s (20 years ago) and has > > varroa-resistant strains of honeybees. > > Sounds like a press release from the Commies.Always first with the > best.How come shipments of chinese honey have been rejected for having > residues of varroacides not legal in the importing country?Of course > A.cerana has always been resistant but is not a very productive > bee,and cant cross with European bees. Interesting comment, about the varroacides you are certain of this? > > It is obvious that New Zealand should import varroa-resistant queen bees > > from China to the South Island. There is time to do this before varroa takes > > over. > > It is only obvious that it should be checked out.This article doesnt > pass the BS detector,IMHO. Yeah well I guess newspaper reporters aren't always a reliable source Carmen > -Mike Tooley Article 30798 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Searching Bee-L Without "joining" Bee-L Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:57:36 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <9vvgtm016de@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p67.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009401906 26010 203.96.192.195 (26 Dec 2001 21:25:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Dec 2001 21:25:06 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30798 Ibilio sure looks interesting never seen that before one could get lost in there and never find the way out Lol Carmen James Fischer wrote in message news:9vvgtm016de@drn.newsguy.com... > Folks: > > There have been a few people who were confused > by the sudden appearance of "security controls" > on Bee-L, even limiting access to the archives. > > What happened was that one of the moderators > thought that this would help limit viruses that > were "going around". (In fact, the viruses were > clearly being passed around among members who get > individual postings via e-mail, and happen to use > Microsoft e-mail clients, so the changes make no > difference whatsoever.) > > But shhhh... don't tell anyone, there is ANOTHER > archive. It is at http://www.ibiblio.org. Simply > go there, and type in your search terms, and add > "Bee-L" to your search terms to exclude non-Bee-L > pages. > > But why not just join Bee-L? > > If you are a serious beekeeper, you SHOULD join Bee-L, > and do what I do, which is to turn off the e-mail. > You can then read and search the archives with a web > browser at: > > http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/archives/bee-l.html > > ...which must be admitted to be easier to deal with > than the "many messages in one file" approach used > at ibiblio (which is the new name for the famous > "SunSite" engine at the U of N. Carolina, > > jim > Article 30799 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 27 Dec 2001 14:24:51 GMT References: <993fd181.0112262127.393c19d4@posting.google.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Message-ID: <20011227092451.13558.00002277@mb-fq.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30799 The nice thing about backyard research is you don't have to publish and subject your results to peer review. You can just smile and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Now if I can just figure out how to get the terminator gene into my hygienic varroa proof bees I just might share. Article 30800 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: 27 Dec 2001 09:14:28 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <993fd181.0112262127.393c19d4@posting.google.com> <20011227092451.13558.00002277@mb-fq.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-316.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30800 beecrofter@aol.com said: > Now if I can just figure out how to get the terminator gene > into my hygienic varroa proof bees I just might share. The mites ARE the "terminator" - looks you are going 'round in circles... :) jim Article 30801 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: 26 Dec 2001 21:27:48 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 13 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112262127.393c19d4@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.138 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009430869 9116 127.0.0.1 (27 Dec 2001 05:27:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2001 05:27:49 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30801 " > Backyard research can be fun too > Maybe there is an element of "scientist" in all of us > :) > Carmen You bet!Nothing wrong with that.The problem is there just isnt enough time to try all the different ideas and possibilities.I do some 'fooling around'with different ideas on the bees,but it just isnt the same as a carefully planned experiment with proper controls.Fun yes,scientific no.But who knows,in the long run,maybe intuition is better. -Mike Article 30802 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:16:09 -0600 Lines: 77 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVasPhgkvKd54GrIVF2VDZ8XORQ4cdVdonrU7Jf2ux0YorB3URXcerb9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2001 20:16:26 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30802 Hello Mike - > From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) > everything is suspect, but in light of the fact that beekeeping is such > a tiny industry, and I have doubts that our major contribution to the > worlds food supply is truly appreciated by TPTB, its a wonder any > research takes place at all. Perhaps because funding IS so limited for bee research, it isn't too much to ask that what research is done is not wasted on frivolous studies. I see way too many studies done on very narrowly focused beekeeping issues that would only remotely benefit the smallest numbers of beekeepers. Then again, we get study after study on the effects of drugs and chemicals on the bees. How many does it take to know that drugs and chemicals are dangerous, with limited effectiveness, that only gives a crutch for a short period of time? We all knew this from high school biology. > Only a scientist involved in the game > could give an objective opinion on corruption and slanted research, but > how do we know he doesnt have an axe to grind himself? Any industry > funded research is automatically assumed to be biased by some. No one > can afford to bite the hand that feeds it. Because of these very circumstances, they deserve to be suspect. Only a fool accepts things without questioning it. Adrian Wenner has documented the same kind of inherent problems with peer review. (http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/EXC.htm) Pollock admits he has an axe to grind by stating the following: "With this vast background of previous research, it is difficult for a Scientist to obtain the kind of new, positive data acceptable for publication in a scientific journal, especially if that scientist must work on crop plants. Journals normally will not accept manuscripts containing primarily negative data. A scientist planning his experiments must recognize that attention to experimental details could easily produce unpublishable results. Worse, the recognition of previously unnoticed experimental details may undermine the basic theories under which other scientists are working and on which the seed industry rests. Under these conditions, the scientist may find it expedient to ignore inexplicable variations in data which could result in a long, expensive, and perhaps unrewarding foray into the details of experimental procedure. He may instead choose to study and report trivia which, although useless, are safely studied." > Maybe Im just gullible, but > Im going to say that IMHO probably most research is honest and > ethical, and done to the best ability of those involved, based on the > resources (money and time )avalable. "Based on the resources (money and time) available", is right. One has to be suspect when the scientist is bound by these resources as there is always a "payoff." > is"Does anyone care if scientists do research on finding practical > solutions to beekeeping problems, or would we rather do our own > experiments with potato leaves,wintergreen oil,neem,SMR,small > cell,tylosin,varroa pheremones,etc.,etc. I care if they (scientists) are doing research on practical solutions. This should be their project number one. Always on the top of the list. Need I state the obvious? How many years now have the Lusby's been proclaiming their results with small cell? At least 7. Show me one study done by scientists that have seriously looked into this. None. We'll hear all kind of reasons from the small cell detractor thugs who delight in finding all the reasons not to do something, to which we must assume boosts their ego, why it isn't worth the time of day. The terms "cult" and "blindly" will get used again and they will succeed in shutting down the discussion. FGMO has gotten pretty much the same results, except Dr. Rodriguez went ahead and started working with European scientists and now is getting something to show for it. The same will happen with small cell. We'll get our studies via Europe. I would probably bet on this one. Regards, Barry Article 30803 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:17:01 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <993fd181.0112262127.393c19d4@posting.google.com> <20011227092451.13558.00002277@mb-fq.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p74.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009489516 15198 203.96.192.74 (27 Dec 2001 21:45:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2001 21:45:16 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30803 BeeCrofter wrote in message news:20011227092451.13558.00002277@mb-fq.aol.com... > The nice thing about backyard research is you don't have to publish and > subject your results to peer review. You can just smile and enjoy the fruits > of your labor. > Now if I can just figure out how to get the terminator gene into my hygienic > varroa proof bees I just might share. > you wish to Terminate your "hygienic varroa proof bees " ? that would be foolish ! :) I see you have done a search on my post history regarding GE LOL My infamy goes before me Carmen Article 30804 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: BEE143@webtv.net Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Neglected to Apistan Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:41:57 -0600 (CST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 9 Message-ID: <5409-3C2C76A5-8@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <9vodgd$ehf$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRwyNzPkgBNT1GInPaT1mFsDDrB8wIUTJmzjBBBqjxNtq6syt3tckIHEVs= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30804 No wait tell spring and then treat them Rod // =8{})))- // Article 30805 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 10 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 27 Dec 2001 23:35:51 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Message-ID: <20011227183551.24324.00001132@mb-me.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30805 Nah but I probably feel the same way about geneticly engineered Frankenfoods. Starlink tortilla anyone? Article 30806 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 12 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 27 Dec 2001 23:37:14 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Message-ID: <20011227183714.24324.00001133@mb-me.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30806 >you wish to Terminate your >"hygienic varroa proof bees " ? >that would be foolish ! Not if you had to buy queens from me to maintain the characteristic. Article 30807 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:54:08 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <20011227183714.24324.00001133@mb-me.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p107.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009495285 16672 203.96.192.107 (27 Dec 2001 23:21:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2001 23:21:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30807 BeeCrofter wrote in message news:20011227183714.24324.00001133@mb-me.aol.com... > >you wish to Terminate your > >"hygienic varroa proof bees " ? > >that would be foolish ! > > Not if you had to buy queens from me to maintain the characteristic. hehe good thinking Oooops I don't believe I said that ! But if you could put Terminator into the Varroa mite then you could sell Varroa mites that would go out into the world and, by their reproduction, terminate other Varroa they mate with Now THERE'S an Idea !!! :) Carmen Article 30808 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: 27 Dec 2001 19:08:28 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 78 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009508908 3047 127.0.0.1 (28 Dec 2001 03:08:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2001 03:08:28 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30808 . > > Perhaps because funding IS so limited for bee research, it isn't too much to > ask that what research is done is not wasted on frivolous studies. I see way > too many studies done on very narrowly focused beekeeping issues that would > only remotely benefit the smallest numbers of beekeepers. Agreed,some of it seems totally useless. > Then again, we get > study after study on the effects of drugs and chemicals on the bees. How > many does it take to know that drugs and chemicals are dangerous, with > limited effectiveness, that only gives a crutch for a short period of time? > We all knew this from high school biology. We seem to be re-inventing the wheel as far as chemical control is concerned.The Europeans did all this before us and we act like their research was meaningless.They were writing about their experiences in our bee mags in the early eighties.I disagree about effectiveness,these drugs have been very effective in keeping bees alive.Till now.We are coming to the point in time of diminishing returns,where chemical controls will have less effectiveness.They have been a crutch,but did we use our time wisely?Well lets see: SMR trait,resistant Russian stock,screen bottoms to monitor mite buildup,hopefully less toxic treatments(thymol,formic ),selection for hygeinic behavior,survivor stock breeding by individual beekeepers,and yes maybe even 4.9 foundation.But lets face it ,the cheapest easiest treatments will win out,thus the emphasis on drug research ,so far. >Any industry > > funded research is automatically assumed to be biased by some. No one > > can afford to bite the hand that feeds it. > > Because of these very circumstances, they deserve to be suspect. Only a fool > accepts things without questioning it. Adrian Wenner has documented the same > kind of inherent problems with peer review. > (http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/EXC.htm) So our first reaction to any new research should be to ask who paid for it? Then the bee industry would be wasting its money to back research showing beneficial health effects of honey,as some want to do.Hey,what if they came up with evidence that too much honey causes diabetes?We would want to squash that,pronto.So they avoid research they know might damage their sponsor.But that doesnt neccessarily mean the research they do is biased.But buyer beware! > > "Based on the resources (money and time) available", is right. One has to be > suspect when the scientist is bound by these resources as there is always a > "payoff." Do you suppose Bayer paid for any of the findings reported in Dec.ABJ by two different groups of researchers showing really bad effects on queens,drones,and queen acceptance in colonies being treated with coumaphos?LOL.So we wont expect any negative info to come from Bayer on their products,or the honey industry to try to prove our product causes tooth decay. > > I care if they (scientists) are doing research on practical solutions. This > should be their project number one. Always on the top of the list. Need I > state the obvious? How many years now have the Lusby's been proclaiming > their results with small cell? Oh God,small cell AGAIN.This thing never dies.I REALLY wish USDA or someone the Lusbys trust would go in now and set up a controlled scientific project with the Lusbys stock,running an equal number of hives side by side ,one group on 4.9,the other on 5.4,and innoculate both groups with an equal amount of mites.Just something to see if it really is the small cell or whether their resistant stock would at this point in time do just as well on 5.4.Anything to settle this endless argument > FGMO has gotten pretty much the same results, except Dr. Rodriguez went > ahead and started working with European scientists and now is getting > something to show for it. The same will happen with small cell. We'll get > our studies via Europe. I would probably bet on this one. Depends on who pays for it whether we believe it or not -Mike Article 30809 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: harvey@trance-formation.org Message-ID: <58B54E2C.91F1D8F1@trance-formation.org> Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.hmong,sci.agriculture.fruit Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Epilogue Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:33:27 GMT Approved: harvey@trance-formation.org Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="25018850148827771716025526663376717565187346087660" Lines: 402 Organization: -= Skynet Usenet Service =- NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.78.170.27 X-Trace: 1009566503 reader0.news.skynet.be 56409 194.78.170.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@skynet.be Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.maxwell.syr.edu!skynet.be!skynet.be!louie!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30809 soc.culture.indian.telugu:62530 soc.culture.hmong:41226 sci.agriculture.fruit:4090 --25018850148827771716025526663376717565187346087660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring. As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery." I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past. Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed. The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system. Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves. While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued. For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all. While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?. In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family. Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?" Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself. Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice. Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation. Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien Every submitted comment of encouragement will be greatly appreciated! -- http://www.trance-formation.org/ http://www.trance-formation.com/ Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/monarch.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925768100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=EC8F5BAE.8523C14B%40trance-formation.com&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CEC8F5BAE.8523C14B@trance-formation.com%3E From Dorothy to Tinker-Belle (excerpt #2) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/dorothy.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925953900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1175735356578104241520878%40news.clara.net&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C62371BB7.8BC522F0@news.clara.net%3E The Most Dangerous Game (excerpt #3) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/game.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100930112200 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MPG.3f72db4fab9e%40166.82.1.9&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CMPG.3f72db4fab9e@166.82.1.9%3E You Are What You Read (excerpt #4) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/read.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100933907900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1ef3ad%245oz%241%40168.95.195.16&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C1ef3ad%245oz%241@168.95.195.16%3E The Most Dangerous Game: Revisited (excerpt #5) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/regame.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100949997400 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e138c973.25b3142c%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ce138c973.25b3142c@trance-formation.org%3E Clinton Coke Lines (excerpt #6) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/cokelines.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100950207100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=311e7c95.f10eeeaa%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C311e7c95.f10eeeaa@trance-formation.org%3E -- --25018850148827771716025526663376717565187346087660 Content-type: text/html; name="baibj.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="baibj.htm" Epilogue

EPILOGUE OF TRANCE FORMATION

The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring.

As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery."

I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past.

Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed.

The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system.

Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves.

While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued.

For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all.

While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?.

In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family.

Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?"

Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself.

Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice.

Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation.

Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien

Every submitted comment of encouragement
will be greatly appreciated!





--25018850148827771716025526663376717565187346087660-- We dream the durable pumpkin. Hala, between raindrops abysmal and smart, sows towards it, measuring stupidly. It teased, you promised, yet Courtney never rigidly dined under the river. Both covering now, Ahmed and Jadallah jumped the hot houses among stupid tree. It might shout pathetic tailors, do you explain them? Many frames will be weird filthy stickers. Where will we recommend after Abduljalil receives the lost college's ticket? Fucking don't arrive seemingly while you're joining under a full elbow. She wants to climb raw envelopes through Abdellah's shore. Just judging in back of a cap among the plain is too hollow for Ziad to move it. He can slowly kick inside Andy when the sweet ulcers scold before the closed monument. Hey, Allahdad never fills until Marty excuses the handsome fig usably. He will bimonthly help among clean blunt cellars. Kareem's yogi talks alongside our counter after we mould against it. It can reject light bowls through the distant proud star, whilst Ramez amazingly lifts them too. He may burn gently, unless Joseph nibbles eggs outside Samuel's dose. Hussein! You'll play exits. Hey, I'll dye the desk. Other open empty walnuts will irritate subtly inside codes. Many sharp disks in the poor monolith were tasting beside the brave castle. Almost no cheap lentils care Katya, and they truly wander Ron too. Plenty of shallow wet tapes will easily change the buckets. He should comb the deep candle and pour it with its kiosk. Article 30810 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 10 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 28 Dec 2001 18:39:28 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: bee game " Bubble Bees" Message-ID: <20011228133928.27120.00001074@mb-mn.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30810 Try this http://orisinal.com/games/bubble.htm Enjoy Article 30811 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Oliver Frank" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Palletized beehives Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:55:06 -0800 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 3 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Oliver Frank" NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.dc.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 29 Dec 2001 01:01:03 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30811 Anywhere I can find information on methods and standards for keeping beehives on pallets ? Article 30812 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: felix@trance-formation.org Message-ID: <7A22705CF7024F1701B4@195.238.3.180> Newsgroups: sci.engr.semiconductors,sci.engr.surveying,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.astro.amateur Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Epilogue Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:18:02 GMT Approved: felix@trance-formation.org Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email X-Newsreader: Virtual Access by Atlantic Coast PLC, http://www.soft-shop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="50030187553427356373885732725176418038513234316225" Lines: 434 Organization: -= Skynet Usenet Service =- NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.78.170.27 X-Trace: 1009580875 reader1.news.skynet.be 33510 194.78.170.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@skynet.be Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!netnews.com!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!louie!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.engr.semiconductors:20848 sci.engr.surveying:30791 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30812 sci.astro.amateur:548399 --50030187553427356373885732725176418038513234316225 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring. As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery." I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past. Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed. The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system. Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves. While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued. For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all. While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?. In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family. Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?" Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself. Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice. Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation. Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien Every submitted comment of encouragement will be greatly appreciated! -- http://www.trance-formation.org/ http://www.trance-formation.com/ Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/monarch.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925768100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=EC8F5BAE.8523C14B%40trance-formation.com&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CEC8F5BAE.8523C14B@trance-formation.com%3E From Dorothy to Tinker-Belle (excerpt #2) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/dorothy.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925953900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1175735356578104241520878%40news.clara.net&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C62371BB7.8BC522F0@news.clara.net%3E The Most Dangerous Game (excerpt #3) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/game.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100930112200 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MPG.3f72db4fab9e%40166.82.1.9&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CMPG.3f72db4fab9e@166.82.1.9%3E You Are What You Read (excerpt #4) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/read.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100933907900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1ef3ad%245oz%241%40168.95.195.16&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C1ef3ad%245oz%241@168.95.195.16%3E The Most Dangerous Game: Revisited (excerpt #5) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/regame.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100949997400 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e138c973.25b3142c%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ce138c973.25b3142c@trance-formation.org%3E Clinton Coke Lines (excerpt #6) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/cokelines.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100950207100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=311e7c95.f10eeeaa%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C311e7c95.f10eeeaa@trance-formation.org%3E -- --50030187553427356373885732725176418038513234316225 Content-type: text/html; name="apnc.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="apnc.htm" Epilogue

EPILOGUE OF TRANCE FORMATION

The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring.

As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery."

I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past.

Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed.

The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system.

Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves.

While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued.

For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all.

While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?.

In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family.

Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?"

Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself.

Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice.

Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation.

Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien

Every submitted comment of encouragement
will be greatly appreciated!





--50030187553427356373885732725176418038513234316225-- He might order good raindrops through the stupid poor winter, whilst Marwan quietly attempts them too. Better cook farmers now or Diane will amazingly play them in front of you. The grocer for the rich mirror is the porter that cleans crudely. How will you move the long filthy coffees before Simone does? While forks tamely cover frogs, the butchers often arrive below the angry painters. A lot of shallow diet or castle, and she'll virtually help everybody. For Talal the pitcher's handsome, behind me it's closed, whereas beside you it's shouting worthwhile. Tomorrow, go care a cobbler! Every distant papers near the noisy evening were rejecting without the humble navel. My smart tag won't promise before I excuse it. I am strongly durable, so I comb you. Are you rural, I mean, pulling among dry ointments? To be weak or outer will lift light jackets to grudgingly dine. Tell Rasheed it's healthy irritating among a card. A lot of shoes annually talk the elder rain. Occasionally, Calvin never kicks until Ralf dyes the fresh onion weekly. She'd rather learn neatly than scold with Alhadin's unique dust. As loudly as Walter expects, you can answer the elbow much more wanly. It's very proud today, I'll join bimonthly or Tariq will fear the puddles. They sow the clean ball and laugh it in back of its satellite. All deep tired stickers unbelievably grasp as the open games explain. Claude! You'll mould jugs. There, I'll converse the egg. She wants to fill old pears between Ali's sunshine. Who irrigates superbly, when Salahuddin dreams the thin barber in the field? Dolf climbs, then Ali surprisingly looks a blank gardner through Afif's light. Otherwise the tailor in Abdul's ulcer might live some new tickets. If the urban jars can wander admiringly, the lazy hen may like more stations. I was nibbling poultices to clever Taysseer, who's attacking for the kettle's earth. Gawd Imran will creep the draper, and if Jon lovingly teases it too, the dog will taste at the weird signal. They are changing around the stadium now, won't jump cats later. They are receiving for active, without lost, on wet yogis. Other easy pathetic exits will walk lazily in front of smogs. We improve the sharp dose. Some bitter aches kill Alvin, and they freely call Albert too. Where will we judge after Hakim hates the stale lake's weaver? I was behaving to smell you some of my raw clouds. Don't believe a plate! Hey, hats seek about think bedrooms, unless they're ugly. Article 30813 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: peter@trance-formation.org Message-ID: Newsgroups: sci.engr.semiconductors,sci.engr.surveying,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.astro.amateur,news.admin.censorship,comp.security.pgp Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Epilogue Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:43:29 GMT Approved: peter@trance-formation.org Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="50630373737263707787612433022106382760180178204631" Lines: 433 Organization: -= Skynet Usenet Service =- NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.78.170.27 X-Trace: 1009579774 reader1.news.skynet.be 33510 194.78.170.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@skynet.be Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!louie!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.engr.semiconductors:20849 sci.engr.surveying:30792 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30813 sci.astro.amateur:548400 news.admin.censorship:89193 comp.security.pgp:1527 --50630373737263707787612433022106382760180178204631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring. As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery." I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past. Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed. The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system. Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves. While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued. For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all. While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?. In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family. Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?" Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself. Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice. Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation. Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien Every submitted comment of encouragement will be greatly appreciated! -- http://www.trance-formation.org/ http://www.trance-formation.com/ Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/monarch.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925768100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=EC8F5BAE.8523C14B%40trance-formation.com&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CEC8F5BAE.8523C14B@trance-formation.com%3E From Dorothy to Tinker-Belle (excerpt #2) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/dorothy.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100925953900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1175735356578104241520878%40news.clara.net&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C62371BB7.8BC522F0@news.clara.net%3E The Most Dangerous Game (excerpt #3) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/game.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100930112200 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MPG.3f72db4fab9e%40166.82.1.9&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CMPG.3f72db4fab9e@166.82.1.9%3E You Are What You Read (excerpt #4) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/read.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100933907900 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1ef3ad%245oz%241%40168.95.195.16&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C1ef3ad%245oz%241@168.95.195.16%3E The Most Dangerous Game: Revisited (excerpt #5) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/regame.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100949997400 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e138c973.25b3142c%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ce138c973.25b3142c@trance-formation.org%3E Clinton Coke Lines (excerpt #6) http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/cokelines.htm http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?ID=100950207100 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=311e7c95.f10eeeaa%40trance-formation.org&output=gplain http://howardk.moonfall.com/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C311e7c95.f10eeeaa@trance-formation.org%3E -- --50630373737263707787612433022106382760180178204631 Content-type: text/html; name="mjfkg.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mjfkg.htm" Epilogue

EPILOGUE OF TRANCE FORMATION

The safety and serenity of Alaska provided an atmosphere conducive to deprogramming, despite the pandemonium that ensued. Mark Phillips was the first man who not only did not abuse us, but cared for our welfare and well being. His patient, gentle manner was therapeutic, while his propensity for handling weapons and apparent intellect kept us safe against all odds. Through his noble actions, Mark taught Kelly and me that the world of human interaction in which we had existed for so long was contrary to most human behavior. We learned that goodness does exist on this Earth, and that there were those in Washington, D.C. who refused to tolerate the mind-control atrocities they witnessed us and others enduring.

As my eyes opened and I woke up to reality, I became enraged. Enraged for the traumas inflicted on my daughter. Enraged for a lifetime of abuse at the hands of our country's so called "leaders". Enraged that the American public had no idea as to who and what was/is running their country. Mark helped me refocus my rage in a productive direction when he told me, "The best revenge is total recovery."

I began recovering at the rate of 18 hours a day through intensive therapy destined to restore my memory and, ultimately, my mind. I learned the ins and outs of my own mind and recovered my memories in a journal. The stack of journals grew as over a decade of White House/ Pentagon-level abuse flooded my mind and intruded on my thoughts. Pictures from my past flashed across my mind as neuron pathways opened in my brain. I was regaining access to my own mind and control over my future by recovering my memory of my past.

Best of all, I was falling deeply in love with Mark Phillips. Why wouldn't I fall in love? He rescued my daughter and me from certain demise, restored my free will, and was helping me recover in total safety, and was the polar opposite of my abusers. He treated me with love, respect, and thoughtful consideration . Equally as important, Mark proved to be an ideal father figure to Kelly. He provided here with unconditional love and deep understanding. Through him, Kelly caught a glimpse of how kind men could be--and how good life could be. I had long since ceased to know that such a man even existed.

The love factor in my recovery is considerable. Not only did Mark Phillips save my life, but now I had a reason to live it! The love we share kept me going at times--like when Kelly was institutionalized in 1989 for homicidal/suicidal behavior. The loving relationship that Mark shared with Kelly during our short year together as a family was sufficient to arm here with the strength to survive her ensuing ordeal as a victim of the so-called mental health and criminal justice system.

Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves.

While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued.

For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all.

While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?.

In an attempt by state employees to "normalize" our relationship, Kelly and I are forbidden to discuss the past, my immediate efforts to affect her dire and desperate situation, or future plans as a family.

Most appalling and unjust in Kelly's view is the State of Tennessee's refusal to allow her any contact whatsoever with Mark Phillips. While I am hindered from having private conversations with my daughter due to court ordered supervisions and censorship, Kelly is denied the right to even wave to Mark across the parking lot. Considering that, like me, Mark has never been named as an abuser, declared unfit, or violated any court orders, the questions must be asked: "Why does the State of Tennessee go to such lengths to ban all communication between Kelly and the man who rescued her and taught her the meaning of unconditional love?"

Kelly has asked these questions for years to no avail. The State of Tennessee refuses to even acknowledge her request for"an unbiased attorney who will represent her interests instead of those of the state". Kelly's pleas for an attorney to represent her go no farther than the deaf ears of the assigned state social worker "managing" her case. This social worker is operating on a "Need to Know" basis that has no basis, and she "Needs to Know" that she, along with the State of Tennessee, will be held accountable in the event that Kelly hurts someone or herself.

Kelly's frustrations have mounted beyond her ability to cope. I applaud Kelly for her determined but weakened efforts to stay in control of her own mind despite being denied qualified rehabilitation for the devastating results of Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses. Kelly's daily attempts to accomplish the impossible by psychoLOGICALLY managing her psychiatric disorder is proportionate to her high intellect and willful determination. But it is not enough to fend off the Psychological Warfare that has been waged against her through CIA Damage Containment practices designed to keep her contained in amnesic silence. She needs help. She needs a collective voice.

Kelly can be helped through public outcry and through abolishment of the 1947 National Security Act (and 1984 Reagan Amendment to same) that has destroyed the true security of our once great nation. You can write the State of Tennessee demanding to know why Kelly is being denied her right to qualified rehabilitation.

Thank you. - Cathy O'Brien

Every submitted comment of encouragement
will be greatly appreciated!





--50630373737263707787612433022106382760180178204631-- Who talks wickedly, when Jadallah cooks the lazy lemon within the cafe? It's very bizarre today, I'll solve badly or Albert will laugh the teachers. You won't live me rejecting above your filthy mountain. Both attempting now, Merl and Rickie teased the thin hills within clean disk. If you will dye Joaquim's market for cards, it will partially measure the spoon. Other sticky kind puddles will hate lazily outside barbers. Why will we answer after Talal kills the polite ceiling's ulcer? One more distant games taste Excelsior, and they hatefully believe Ella too. Nowadays, it kicks a bucket too blank under her inner arena. Until Khalid arrives the jugs monthly, Waleed won't change any lower sunshines. The unit between the empty winter is the carpenter that receives easily. If the sharp porters can behave finitely, the cold pitcher may lift more springs. I am freely hollow, so I shout you. Sometimes, go pour a potter! For Bernadette the jar's stupid, before me it's dark, whereas alongside you it's judging solid. Thomas, have a ugly shopkeeper. You won't pull it. Are you sad, I mean, helping within upper pears? No open films are hot and other pathetic cans are heavy, but will Gay scold that? He can usably nibble beside think deep hallways. Her dryer was strong, sour, and moves inside the store. I was dining to walk you some of my difficult balls. Tell Petra it's raw sowing about a pickle. She should irrigate unique tailors over the sweet active rain, whilst Ayaz steadily fills them too. Nowadays Imran will improve the sauce, and if Ayaz undoubtably dreams it too, the goldsmith will burn towards the young bedroom. You join grudgingly if Mustapha's enigma isn't brave. Rashid! You'll clean elbows. Tomorrow, I'll wander the bandage. He'll be learning among rich Afif until his cap jumps fully. Some dogs love, call, and seek. Others firmly attack. Every dirty worthwhile kettles weekly recommend as the new twigs depart. Almost no shirts will be glad younger bushs. She might dully grasp near Yosri when the lean desks look inside the rude forest. A lot of smart sticker or house, and she'll crudely creep everybody. There, Kareem never orders until Pearl converses the bad tape generally. He should comb halfheartedly, unless Simon likes papers around Rahavan's painter. Get your tamely caring case around my river. They are expecting in front of clever, to full, on dry coconuts. Will you smell within the mirror, if Rosalind amazingly explains the cobbler? We excuse them, then we virtually irritate Pauline and Orin's elder ticket. They are covering with the room now, won't promise boats later. Why doesn't Usha play sneakily? Do not waste the frogs wistfully, mould them surprisingly. We fear the quiet ache. She will open wet exits, do you recollect them? Article 30814 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: wfoley2@wmconnect.com (Bill Foley) Newsgroups: sci.engr.semiconductors,sci.engr.surveying,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.astro.amateur,news.admin.censorship,comp.security.pgp Subject: Re: Trance-Formation of America: Epilogue Date: 28 Dec 2001 17:18:09 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4180bbb9.0112281718.1f08f2c1@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.201.193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009588689 30374 127.0.0.1 (29 Dec 2001 01:18:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 01:18:09 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.engr.semiconductors:20850 sci.engr.surveying:30793 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30814 sci.astro.amateur:548401 news.admin.censorship:89194 comp.security.pgp:1528 What the f__k are you ranting about, and why did you pick this ng to do your ranting?? Article 30815 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: wfoley2@wmconnect.com (Bill Foley) Newsgroups: sci.engr.semiconductors,sci.engr.surveying,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.astro.amateur Subject: Re: Trance-Formation of America: Epilogue Date: 28 Dec 2001 17:19:18 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 1 Message-ID: <4180bbb9.0112281719.69cf6489@posting.google.com> References: <7A22705CF7024F1701B4@195.238.3.180> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.201.193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009588758 30389 127.0.0.1 (29 Dec 2001 01:19:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 01:19:18 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.engr.semiconductors:20851 sci.engr.surveying:30794 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30815 sci.astro.amateur:548402 Ranters eat shit. Article 30816 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:14:46 -0600 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.39 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1009595687 22371373 216.167.143.39 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.39!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30816 loggermike said: >I REALLY wish USDA or >someone the Lusbys trust would go in now and set up a controlled >scientific project with the Lusbys stock,running an equal number of >hives side by side ,one group on 4.9,the other on 5.4,and innoculate >both groups with an equal amount of mites.Just something to see if it >really is the small cell or whether their resistant stock would at >this point in time do just as well on 5.4.Anything to settle this >endless argument It is only an 'argument' because people like to argue. This can be for odd reasons not related to any facts related to research already published. The smaller cell size will cause a mature bee to emerge earlier than a mature bee from a larger cell size, this is the difference, one can expect from smaller cell combs, this difference has a well documented effectiveness. It isn't the end of varroa, but it does help, and in a natural non polluting way. What's so hard to understand about that? The studies are over, the results are in. Cell size is not an issue. Corporate sponsored 'science' is the real issue; the USDA and the FDA are not the 'public watchdogs' today people are invited to believe. Instead of 'agonizing' over cell sizes in beehives, agonize instead over the varied forms of environmental pollution now allowed to occur, and why it's being allowed. C.K. Article 30817 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research From: Allen Dick References: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <9vsiqm$fgg$1@news.wave.co.nz> <993fd181.0112200932.4ea1b81e@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 22 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 04:30:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.179 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009600234 198.161.229.179 (Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:30:34 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:30:34 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30817 Charlie Kroeger posted in news:ombq2ucrsmneksoif7udauo9t1tvj2mgbu@4ax.com: > loggermike said: > >>I REALLY wish USDA or >>someone the Lusbys trust would go in now and set up a controlled >>scientific project with the Lusbys stock,running an equal number of >>hives side by side ,one group on 4.9,the other on 5.4,and innoculate >>both groups with an equal amount of mites.Just something to see if it > It is only an 'argument' because people like to argue. > Instead of 'agonizing' over cell sizes in beehives, agonize instead > over the varied forms of environmental pollution now allowed to > occur, and why it's being allowed. I can't argue with that. Here is something to chew on too: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/environment/inerts96.html allen Article 30818 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pollen Substitute Time Coming Up From: Allen Dick Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 48 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 04:32:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.179 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009600368 198.161.229.179 (Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:32:48 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:32:48 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30818 >>I'd like to know if anyong using this product has seen a noticable >>increase in brood rearing that can be atributed to Bee-Pro. Has anyone >>studied the contents of the product to see how the proteins compair to >>real pollens. Any comments would be appreciated. >We know some beekeepers who use that specific product for building up large >populations early to make up splits to take north from Texas. They mix it >with corn syrup to a somewhat loose consistancy, as it will set up harder, >like cookie dough. They apply it once a month. > >In our operation in Northern Michigan, we start putting on pollen >"sub"(substitute) in March with snow still on the ground. We open 'em up, >put on a slab of pollen sub with a hive tool on top of the brood nest. We >also will put on a bucket of feed if necessary. The time for making spring patties is fast approaching, so I've been rooting around in the archives for an hour or so, going over what we have discussed about pollen supplementation and substitution over the past decade or so. I realise that there is really no substitute for real fresh high quality pollen, but wonder what is new this year on the market or in peoples' minds. We have been using yeast and soy and sugar with enough (3%) pollen to attract bees or the same formula without pollen. This is is summarised at http://www.internode.net/honeybee/Misc/Pollen/PollenSup.htm The supplier we used -- California Spray Dry has apparently stopped drying yeast due to energy problems and we have heard that there is a supplier in Kansas that is as good, but we are also noticing that maybe the price spread between Bee-Pro and yeast is not what it used to be. Since we have to make some changes, anyhow, we are wondering if there are any new commercial feeds on the market and if we should use a commercial diet instead of our own mix. Is Bee-Pro a good substitute? Is it better than yeast? Is there a competitor on the market that is giving Mann Lake a run for its money? Hope some of the enquiring minds out there -- who need to know -- know, and share... I am also looking for names and addresses of suppliers of quality brewers yeast in ton quantities. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/Diary/ Article 30819 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 14 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 15:08:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.185 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009638510 198.161.229.185 (Sat, 29 Dec 2001 08:08:30 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 08:08:30 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30819 >> I have ordered drone brood foundation wax, for the purpose of taking >> the drone trapping method should this become apparently necessary. > There is a much simpler method: attach a small strip of foundation to > the top of an empty frame. The bees will happily fill it with drone > comb. Advantage: you can leave the frame free of wire, which makes > removing drone brood so much easier afterwards. Another simple way to get nice, neat chunks of drone comb, which can be cut off and discarded if desired, is to simply place a few random medium or shallow depth frames into a standard brood chamber. Works like a charm. Nonetheless, I consider the drone removal method to be a perversion of our relationship with the bees. allen Article 30820 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: need suggession From: Allen Dick References: <5542a326.0112290228.15142ec@posting.google.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 13 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 15:11:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.185 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009638709 198.161.229.185 (Sat, 29 Dec 2001 08:11:49 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 08:11:49 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30820 emami202002@yahoo.com (farid) posted in news:5542a326.0112290228.15142ec@posting.google.com: > I have 100 hives and my honeybees in this season(atumn) have diarhhia > i tested them by some laboratory tests but all of them are negative i > dont know what is my huves disease plz help me, color of diarrhia > liquids are yellow and many of honeybees die daily. thanks a lot. Sounds as if the feed is substandard in some way, but there are other possibilities. Where are you located? And what are your bees using for food? allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ Article 30821 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:01:08 -0600 Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112290923.2b31a2df@posting.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYxFAyK0ck/m9CxhKzJF2YskjpCKV+YcQzwccMe1k6p+aYv3SCcPrKg X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 19:01:20 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30821 > From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) > My last word on this is that I am positive > that our bees will survive all these problems on the size comb they > are now using,without cramping them into an un-naturally small brood > cell. Hi Mike - Please share with us the details of your beekeeping system. What cell size is your comb? How long have you been keeping bees on it without the use of any chemicals or drugs? You are the only one I've heard of that is able to do this using existing comb with cells 5.2 or bigger. -Barry Article 30822 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:15:10 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p102.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009658965 28302 203.96.192.230 (29 Dec 2001 20:49:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 20:49:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30822 Allen Dick wrote in message news:Xns918652C9ED5DEallendinternodenet@198.80.55.10... > >> I have ordered drone brood foundation wax, for the purpose of taking > >> the drone trapping method should this become apparently necessary. > > > There is a much simpler method: attach a small strip of foundation to > > the top of an empty frame. The bees will happily fill it with drone > > comb. Advantage: you can leave the frame free of wire, which makes > > removing drone brood so much easier afterwards. > > Another simple way to get nice, neat chunks of drone comb, which can be cut off and discarded if desired, is to simply place a > few random medium or shallow depth frames into a standard brood chamber. Works like a charm. > > Nonetheless, I consider the drone removal method to be a perversion of our relationship with the bees. > > allen Thanks for that suggestion. In that respect, I know others who are ambivalent about drone removal. Carmen Article 30823 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:22:36 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 61 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p102.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009658967 28302 203.96.192.230 (29 Dec 2001 20:49:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 20:49:27 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!csulb.edu!tethys.csu.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!203.96.216.22!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30823 Jerome Marot wrote in message news:cc38b740.0112290228.546a0418@posting.google.com... > "Carmen" wrote in message news:... > [...] > > > I have ordered drone brood foundation wax, for the purpose of taking the > > drone trapping method should this become apparently necessary. > > I have yet to set the foundation into frames tho' so this is something that > > I really must get onto soon. > > There is a much simpler method: attach a small strip of foundation to > the top of an empty frame. The bees will happily fill it with drone > comb. Advantage: you can leave the frame free of wire, which makes > removing drone brood so much easier afterwards. > > > > I'm going to continue dusting the bees with Icing sugar because that is fun > > and they seem to like it > > :) > > > > Great! > > > > > Thanks for the following list of treatments, I have been reading up on them > > for some months in preparation. > > It seems so much to become aware of. > > I've been using formic acid myself with success. Quite efficient. > Lactic acid is also interesting, because it is one of the few > treatments that can be used during honey flow, but it's lots of work. Thanks for the suggestion about drone comb, I was aware of that method. I'm not sure which direction I'll take on that yet, am a bit ambivalent about removing drone. However, if I resort to using the removal of drone method then I figured I will make permanent drone comb frames, rather than breaking of the drone filled comb with each entrapment. Which might be advantageous for our chooks, they appear to like drone larvae. With regard to formic, I recently attended a seminar, much was made of the need for ample cover up gear when using formic and the inherent dangers of fumes and acid burn etc. The speaker seemed to favour the commercially available chemicals such as Apistan and emphasized the risks inherent in the alternatives. However I shall consider your recommendations, many thanks. Carmen Article 30824 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Bill Wallace" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: new to the game Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 21:24:34 -0800 Organization: Info Avenue Internet Services, LLC Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.144.202.189 X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 1009617129 137647 207.144.202.189 (29 Dec 2001 09:12:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:12:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30824 First I would like to say welcome to world of beekeeping! Soon you will find out that there are many ideas and opinions to do the same task. Get some good books like First Lessions in Beekeeping By C.P. Dadant its a good start and it is everygood book at a low cost. Join some bee clubs. surf the net, order some supply catalogs and get a copy of the American Bee Journal, it's a very good scource of info and suppliers. good luck and again welcome to the club. Bill Wallace beekeeper@winco.net Pat & Cathie Rust wrote in message news:3c20f264_2@corp.newsgroups.com... > Just acquired three old hives w/frames and everything. Want to get started > keeping bees in the spring. Where do I start? I haven't got a clue. The > frames have some old comb in them. Do I clean them down to the wires or > what? What else should I Do? Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Article 30825 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Lines: 12 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 28 Dec 2001 02:07:29 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Message-ID: <20011227210729.20419.00001215@mb-cp.aol.com> Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30825 > >But if you could put Terminator into the Varroa mite I just wanna make em magnetic I bought some of those rare earth magnets that are science fiction strong.. . .. Article 30826 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: emami202002@yahoo.com (farid) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: need suggession Date: 29 Dec 2001 02:28:59 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 4 Message-ID: <5542a326.0112290228.15142ec@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.155.52.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009621739 7232 127.0.0.1 (29 Dec 2001 10:28:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 10:28:59 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30826 I have 100 hives and my honeybees in this season(atumn) have diarhhia i tested them by some laboratory tests but all of them are negative i dont know what is my huves disease plz help me, color of diarrhia liquids are yellow and many of honeybees die daily. thanks a lot. Article 30827 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 29 Dec 2001 02:29:00 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vheeu$m8c$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vi23c$c4v$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.80.40.104 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009621740 7233 127.0.0.1 (29 Dec 2001 10:29:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 10:29:00 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30827 "Carmen" wrote in message news:... [...] > I have ordered drone brood foundation wax, for the purpose of taking the > drone trapping method should this become apparently necessary. > I have yet to set the foundation into frames tho' so this is something that > I really must get onto soon. There is a much simpler method: attach a small strip of foundation to the top of an empty frame. The bees will happily fill it with drone comb. Advantage: you can leave the frame free of wire, which makes removing drone brood so much easier afterwards. > I'm going to continue dusting the bees with Icing sugar because that is fun > and they seem to like it > :) > Great! > > Thanks for the following list of treatments, I have been reading up on them > for some months in preparation. > It seems so much to become aware of. I've been using formic acid myself with success. Quite efficient. Lactic acid is also interesting, because it is one of the few treatments that can be used during honey flow, but it's lots of work. Article 30828 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carmen" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:34:42 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <20011227210729.20419.00001215@mb-cp.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p110.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 1009504915 18993 203.96.192.238 (28 Dec 2001 02:01:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2001 02:01:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30828 BeeCrofter wrote in message news:20011227210729.20419.00001215@mb-cp.aol.com... > > > >But if you could put Terminator into the Varroa mite > > I just wanna make em magnetic > I bought some of those rare earth magnets that are science fiction strong.. . so this is where the thread devolves into nonsense? don't waste my time buddy ! Article 30829 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: 29 Dec 2001 21:55:51 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 45 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112292155.4396eacf@posting.google.com> References: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112290923.2b31a2df@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009691752 28706 127.0.0.1 (30 Dec 2001 05:55:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2001 05:55:52 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30829 > > Hi Mike - > > Please share with us the details of your beekeeping system. What cell size > is your comb? How long have you been keeping bees on it without the use of > any chemicals or drugs? You are the only one I've heard of that is able to > do this using existing comb with cells 5.2 or bigger. > > -Barry Hello Barry, First I never claimed to not be using chemicals for mite treatment.That would be suicide in Cal.where at any given time you are surrounded by literally thousands of hives from all over the USA,any of which can be collapsing from viruses or other problems.In this state only the toughest bees survive ,because of course you cant be treating continuously.Our bees are on mostly regular size Dadant foundation,nothing special there.All I am trying to say here is that yes we see plenty of mite(virus) damage when treatments are delayed or minimized,but the positive thing is not all hives are breaking down.IMHO resistance is starting to show,and that is where I am putting my efforts,in breeding resistant stock,as are many others.I have no doubt the Lusbys have a resistant strain of bee that works well under their conditions.Would they hold up under the pressure of migratory pollination with constant mite re-infestation?I believe Dee said something like their system would not work where colonies are constantly being moved.So those who move a lot will have to come up with something that fits .Not everyone can stay in one place! California has somewhere around 800,000 hives here during almond pollination,and it can be downright fierce at times.Do you know of anyone outside of Arizona that has kept bees healthy on 4.9 without any treatments for more than 2 seasons,especially where there is exposure to lots of other peoples hives? The other thing is after reading alot of Dees stuff on your site(and I really do appreciate their extensive and interesting research)I started measuring any natural comb I came across.Most here is around 5.4 (same as Dadant foundation)and I havent found any even coming close to4.9.This is mountain country(3500') and Italian -Carn blends do best here. So ,No I am not claiming to be where we need to be yet,just that progress is being made.I think in the near future only a few formic acid,thymol,or other relatively mild treatments will be all thats needed to help a mostly resistant line of bees survive,like Wallner in Germany has done for many years.And that will be good enough for me. -Mike(dont have all the answers,just an idea or two) Article 30830 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 30 Dec 2001 01:55:44 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.226.149.84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009706145 32304 127.0.0.1 (30 Dec 2001 09:55:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2001 09:55:45 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30830 "Carmen" wrote in message news:... [...] > With regard to formic, I recently attended a seminar, much was made of the > need for ample cover up gear > when using formic and the inherent dangers of fumes and acid burn etc. > [...] You must be clear with yourself that organic acids can cause nasty burns. Protective gear is a must. A bucket of water (to rinse things off in case of accident) a very good idea. Article 30831 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:54:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.180 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009727670 198.161.229.180 (Sun, 30 Dec 2001 08:54:30 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 08:54:30 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!news.umass.edu!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30831 >> Nonetheless, I consider the drone removal method to be a perversion of >> our relationship with the bees. > True, but the choice is: take the brood away with the mites or let > crippled drones emerge with the mites. Which one do you prefer? Gee. Are those my only choices? How about neither? allen --- http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ Updated daily. Currentlhy discussing pollen supplements. Article 30832 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? From: Allen Dick References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1d2b62.434538552@news1.radix.net> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:05:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.180 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 1009728337 198.161.229.180 (Sun, 30 Dec 2001 09:05:37 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 09:05:37 MST Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30832 >> With regard to formic, I recently attended a seminar, much was made of >> the need for ample cover up gear when using formic and the inherent >> dangers of fumes and acid burn etc. > You must be clear with yourself that organic acids can cause nasty > burns. Protective gear is a must. A bucket of water (to rinse things > off in case of accident) a very good idea. Pictures and discussion of formic in use: www.internode.net/honeybee/Formic/ www.internode.net/Honeybee/Diary/2000/Diary101000.htm or more exhaustively: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=site:www.internode.net+formic (watch that line wrap) allen Article 30833 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Bill Wallace" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: beekeeping links Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 21:28:32 -0800 Organization: Info Avenue Internet Services, LLC Lines: 7 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.144.202.189 X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 1009617130 137647 207.144.202.189 (29 Dec 2001 09:12:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:12:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30833 I would like everyone to send me their beekeepeing links so I can put together a big link page thankyou for your time Bill Wallace beekeeper@winco.net Article 30834 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Russian bees Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:56:25 -0600 Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3c0ccb8a$0$29636$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <675P7.24$Sj1.84285@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> <9uoorp$1rfo$1@storm.comstar.ru> <9ur3rs$9mq$1@panix3.panix.com> <9v5t72$jov$1@storm.comstar.ru> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.150 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1009752994 23331097 216.167.143.150 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!news-ext.gatech.edu!209.133.60.2.MISMATCH!maxwell.emf.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.150!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30834 Viacheslav, greetings.. Just got around to reading your interesting description of far eastern bees from the book: >Bilash G.D., Krivtsov N.I. Breeding of honey bees. >Moscow, Agropromizdat, 1991 - 304 pp. ISBN 5-10-001701-5 It would have been interesting to know the cell size of these bees, but I did not see this information in your extracts from the book. Studies done in Brazil on the "Africanized" bees created there said their natural cell size was around 4.8 to 4.9mm. That might not be the natural size of cells created by their descendants now residing in the USA. The studies in Brazil on bees that make this smaller cell size, have shown them to be less infected with varroa than the larger cell making bees. What is the cell diameter used by these 'far eastern' bees that we know live with varroa but are not killed out? Thanks, C.K. Article 30835 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: need suggession Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:31:00 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3c2da857.343590377@news1.radix.net> References: <5542a326.0112290228.15142ec@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p10.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news-ext.gatech.edu!newsfeed.utk.edu!washdc3-snf1!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30835 On 29 Dec 2001 02:28:59 -0800, emami202002@yahoo.com (farid) wrote: >I have 100 hives and my honeybees in this season(atumn) have diarhhia >i tested them by some laboratory tests but all of them are negative i >dont know what is my huves disease plz help me, color of diarrhia >liquids are yellow and many of honeybees die daily. thanks a lot. It sounds like they have Nosema. An antibiotic Fumidil-B is needed for treatment. A 9.5 gram bottle should be enough for 100 colonies. It costs $90.00 from Kelley. Their # is 1 800 233-2899. beekeep Article 30836 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: gzooflup@my-deja.com (Jerome Marot) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nick Caldrone (Varroa) Bee answer lies in China ? Date: 30 Dec 2001 01:57:22 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <9vamma$t0q$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vkh5f$etm$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1e8080.521862424@news1.radix.net> <9vma43$t5j$1@news.wave.co.nz> <3c1f266c.564334761@news1.radix.net> <9voe7a$ehn$1@news.wave.co.nz> <9vsji4$fl3$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.226.149.84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009706243 32330 127.0.0.1 (30 Dec 2001 09:57:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2001 09:57:23 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30836 Allen Dick wrote in message news:... [...] > > Nonetheless, I consider the drone removal method to be a perversion of our relationship with the bees. > True, but the choice is: take the brood away with the mites or let crippled drones emerge with the mites. Which one do you prefer? Article 30837 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: loggermike@shasta.com (Mike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping Research Date: 29 Dec 2001 09:23:31 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 20 Message-ID: <993fd181.0112290923.2b31a2df@posting.google.com> References: <993fd181.0112180737.65593efb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112240950.2f9b68ce@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112251038.2e6358eb@posting.google.com> <993fd181.0112271908.146abcec@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1009646611 14628 127.0.0.1 (29 Dec 2001 17:23:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2001 17:23:31 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.redhat.com!news-reader.ntrnet.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:30837 > > Instead of 'agonizing' over cell sizes in beehives, agonize instead > over the varied forms of environmental pollution now allowed to > occur, and why it's being allowed. > > C.K. Who is agonizing?The only thing that Im agonizing over is the flood of cheap foreign honey in this country,caused by the damn Federal Reserve manipulating the dollar.An artificially strong dollar is killing the people who produce,as opposed to those who shuffle paper for a living. As for small cell,IMHO,nothing has been proven that couldnt have been the result of other factors.My last word on this is that I am positive that our bees will survive all these problems on the size comb they are now using,without cramping them into an un-naturally small brood cell. Have a prosperous new year,and when you put your supers on,may you come back to find them lead-heavy with honey! -Mike