Article 28149 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:46:05 -0600 Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <92mvc8$bk8$1@saltmine.radix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbRCKSi/gH2cxNLvU38Ot1RYogle+b79b3jtUKoza+NiyoIlGDynYEx X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Dec 2000 18:47:05 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28149 in article Xns901B68420allendinternodenet@198.161.156.10, Allen Dick at allend@internode.net wrote on 12/31/00 10:30 AM: > As far as the half of the problem that is under our control, there are > currently many experiments underway to determine whether honey bees can > actually be maintained with consistent and universal success without use of > chemicals in today's Europe and North America. My feeling is that it should not matter whether or not there is "universal success" in keeping bees without the use of chemicals. What does matter is that those who do maintain chemical and drug free hives should not be short changed just because not everyone else can or is willing to incur the cost of getting there. We should take the purest/cleanest honey that is produced and use it as the benchmark that all others are graded against. Perhaps there shouldn't be a single standard if there are varying degrees. Let the consumer choose just like there are different grades of meat. > The other half is a bit tougher when we consider the range of a honey bee > hive's foraging and the unknown nature of the contents of even familiar > terrain. (Ask Jerry Bromenshenk about this or search for 'mines' or > jjbmail@selway.umt.edu as author at the above site). Avoiding exposure to > chemicals -- and being able to prove it is almost impossible when we consider > the ubiquitous application of insecticides and ubiquitous presence of wastes. > Beekeepers in very remote areas have had analyses done for existing organic > certification and not been successful. The fact that systemics are becoming > widespread (see http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ ) adds even > another kink into the problem. A distinction needs to be made that a bee bringing in contaminated pollen does not necessarily mean it is contaminating the honey. Analyses can always be done to anyone's honey to verify this then there isn't a question to it's purity. I'm sure there are beekeepers who have not been able to produce chemical free honey due to their surroundings but again, that should not be a penalty against those who can. There has been plenty of outcry from the industry when adulteration was found in honey as it potentially had a negative affect or connotation for the beekeeper who wasn't engaging in this practice. It should not be a surprise then, that beekeepers who are doing what it takes to produce a premium honey that testing has confirmed are equally unkind to the idea that their honey must be grouped in with the less pure supply. All honey is not the same. -Barry Article 28150 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeder.randori.com!news.randori.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A4F9F60.33C08646@theglobe.com> From: Ripon X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Scotch Broom Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 Organization: Randori News Inc. -- http://www.randori.com -- Fast! Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:04:32 -0800 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28150 Do bees forage Scotch Broom (Cytisus scoparius)? Thank you and Happy New Year all! Ripon Article 28151 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <9285pb$dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4E21FB.7D69EB85@together.net> <3zq36.138159$65.1099832@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <3A4E8787.9A4AB96C@together.net> <%VG36.139853$65.1102264@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:35:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 978298507 24.13.215.128 (Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:35:07 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:35:07 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28151 Haha...Actually I am a quite a bit younger than you may think... Scot Mc Pherson loggermike wrote in message news:92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > > > > > >Ha!another hippy from the 60s(reformed or otherwise).I guess there > are still a few of us around(who would never admit it)Im 47 years old > and still like to listen to Pink Floyd at full volume blasting from my > truck stereo while working bees. > Anyhow this thread was started in a lighthearted manner because it > seems we have so many real problems bearing down on us that sometimes > we just get too serious and negative.But the allergy thing was just too > important to ignore and I learned from it.And we really enjoyed and > could relate to the others. > > > > > > -- > loggermike > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28152 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <92npvv$dit$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Evaluating Beekeeping Help Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:38:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 978298697 24.13.215.128 (Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:38:17 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:38:17 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28152 Yep...Some people have it (whatever IT is) for a lot of things. For me a devoted focus is one of the principle traits I admire regardless of scored intelligence. Brightness is just like the light of a flashlight, sometimes a tiny little bulb can produce a tremendous amount of light if focused properly. Scot Mc Pherson loggermike wrote in message news:92npvv$dit$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article , > allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) wrote: > > I recently began a project to list the skills and experience levels > we seek > > > I dont know if I can reprint a quote from the May 1993 > National Geographic but here goes:Jim Robertson,a CA. beekeeper said"A > guy came up to me once and said,'I got a boy. He's not too bright,and > he don't get along with people-but you ought to hire him.He'd make a > real good beekeeper'. > > > > -- > loggermike > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28153 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.182!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:55:23 -0600 Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.182 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978299724 8147675 216.167.138.182 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28153 >And aren't the domestic honey bees we are familiar with now of mostly >European descent? Yes, brought to the new world by Europeans. >(I have a thing for old bee books). Yes, me too. I like reading the old editions. I read them with the same morbid determination as reading 'Shoah.' What those old beekeepers put bees through was a wonder. Still you have to consider Jim Jarmusch's assessment of 19th century Europeans, (read also Americans) i.e. 'Stupid fucking white men.' My favorite 'old' bee book is 'The Life of the Bee' by Maurice Maeterlinck. (a European) copyright 1901. My edition is a 'Mentor Book' copyright 1954, .35 cents. C.K. Article 28154 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Lines: 56 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 02:26:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 978316006 24.13.215.128 (Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:26:46 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:26:46 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28154 My two favourite books are a 1908 edition of ABCs and XYZs of Beekeeping written by AI Root himself, and a 1917 Edition of First Lessons in Beekeeping by CP Dadant. It is interesting to note that these books refer to the american black bee as inferior to the european strains strictly based on the size of the bee. The reason it is interesting is due to the fact that European strains are natively the same size as the american but have been bred larger by a slow but steadily forced enlargement of brood comb cells. The european strain have an average native cell size of 4.85 mm and the americans having 4.82 mm. It can also be noted that american bees are/were better suited to beekeeping in a America due to their nativity, and being already innoculated and resistant to the native diseases present which are giving the euro apis a very hard time. I have also read that the american black bee was extinct, but I cannot believe this for I have seen them myself. There is also another variety of apis which I have seen which intrigues me greatly. It is a lantern green apis bee which looks exactly..and I say exactly like the american black or euro apis save for its diminutive size and lantern green color...Very Very interesting...One day this spring and summer I plan on tracking both of these varieties and seeing if I can induce them to hive in my hives. It certainly would be interesting to see if I could breed new/native strains. Whether commercially worth it or not is not withstanding, it would be an education worth my hive's weight in gold. Scot Mc Pherson Charlie Kroeger wrote in message news:ls9v4tka6agem1d4ppfhdiqq4dj5ed0b09@4ax.com... > >And aren't the domestic honey bees we are familiar with now of mostly > >European descent? > > Yes, brought to the new world by Europeans. > > >(I have a thing for old bee books). > > Yes, me too. I like reading the old editions. I read them with the same > morbid determination as reading 'Shoah.' What those old beekeepers put bees > through was a wonder. Still you have to consider Jim Jarmusch's assessment of > 19th century Europeans, (read also Americans) i.e. 'Stupid fucking white men.' > > My favorite 'old' bee book is 'The Life of the Bee' by Maurice Maeterlinck. (a > European) copyright 1901. My edition is a 'Mentor Book' copyright 1954, .35 > cents. > > C.K. Article 28155 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!easynet-quince!easynet.net!monolith.news.easynet.net!not-for-mail From: gordon@ozcomputers.net Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Spambot Fodder, Dont Read 5778 Lines: 3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:09:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.40.196.50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.net X-Trace: monolith.news.easynet.net 978318558 195.40.196.50 (Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:09:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:09:18 GMT Organization: [posted via Easynet] Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28155 gordon@ozcomputers.net dktgszwkstrzezowinlidbjdxy Article 28191 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!nntp.msen.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:39:16 -0600 Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVacGDumDhjr6PzwzAXzXeMpSYTdcB4m+e/HG5aaUYjjgqZe7tWH7gux X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 03:40:16 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28191 in article Xns901E966E6allendinternodenet@198.161.156.10, Allen Dick at allend@internode.net wrote on 1/3/01 4:42 PM: > I'm *always* looking for new ideas and testing them carefully. So are all > the old beekeepers I meet. Allen, Interesting thread going here. I see you are back doing what you do best...criticizing. Or am I reading you wrong and really you are just " joking a bit." Perhaps you would show us exactly the tests you did and show us the results. I'd be very interested to see how they compare with mine. You have done tests on small cell size haven't you? How did your bees fare? -Barry Article 28192 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!csulb.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:24:35 -0600 Lines: 118 Message-ID: References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbXDPOMrchZ2ErumNj7Rp6Ek7ebklAFL0GdkdyNn/1AZd0bbKgUCeNn X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 05:25:35 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28192 in article Xns901D7280allendinternodenet@198.80.55.10, Allen Dick at allend@internode.net wrote on 1/2/01 2:11 AM: >> Call it what you want, but it doesn't change the reality that there are >> beekeepers managing their bees without the use of chemicals. > > Of course there are. How many, how truthfully, and for how long is a most > interesting question. The meaning is also disputable. What's the interesting part about how many and for how long? The truthful part is a red herring. Only God knows that part in any of us. Also, please explain "The meaning is also disputable." > You can follow an organic regime to the letter and still produce a > contaminated product. That is a major point that concerns me. I believe > there are better and more efficient mechanisms to achieve the desired goal. Okay, please explain these more efficient mechanisms. >> I'm afraid a lot of people don't share >> your optimism, as there are times, chemicals that have been approved, >> years later, we find out that they _are_ contaminating. What we do know >> for sure though, chemicals and drugs that aren't in the hive can't >> possibly get into the honey. > > Well, I think you are right about that. It comes down to outlook. Nothing > is ever stringent enough for the pesimists; the optimists don't worry at > all. I personally think that the truth and the best outlook lies somewhere > in between and belongs to the pragmatists. Probably very true. > I should not have to point out that just because many people have doubts > about something does not mean the doubts are justified or that what they > worry about is even important. True. This should help us then when reading and interpreting some of the current raves on the cell issue on this newsgroup. >> & FGMO > > Is in another class again. Yes it is. Yet another method for control that was equally bashed by some as not being "scientific" and "untested" and yet, Dr. Rodriguez didn't bother to get sidetracked and is still doing well, with many universities now doing studies on FGMO. Sorry, got sidetracked myself! >> and another for those using no drugs or >> chemicals. > > This should not be determined by ostensible practice, but by actual > examination and measurement of the finished product. That is the only > honest way to prove the claims. That is not say that a 'best practices' > approach is not necessary in any food handing, but that is already in > place. Many are ignorant of it, and some of those think their products are > 'organic'. I'd agree that there is room for misrepresentation as there is with anything. When I think with my small, simple brain, "best practices" would be no chemical and drug use in a hive compared to using "approved" chemicals and drugs. This part sure seems very simple and basic to me. >> The grading is merely a standard or guideline but obviously >> the teeth of the matter would be the results of a lab test for ones >> honey of which ought to be done by anyone serious about organic honey >> anyway. > > We are obviously agreed on this -- the proof is in the pudding. What I > ask, though, is if the same result can be achieved by non-'organic' > methods, what is the point of having organic methods? Hurrah, we can agree on something! :>) -- I don't necessarily agree with your assumption that the same result can be achieved. Your key word here is "if" >> Nothing vague about not using chemicals in ones hives. > > What does it matter if the chemicals are not in the honey? Nothing, but there is a difference between no chemicals and "acceptable levels" in honey. >>> I believe the >>> orginal articles in this discussion mentioned that the 'organic' >>> designation is a MARKETING distinction, not a real quality >>> distinction, and IMO, this is largely the case. >> >> Not so bad. If the distinction can be made due to real differences in >> quality, > > This is the whole matter. Can it be proven? That is all I ask. If not, > then it is a false distinction and thus deceitful in the market. Sure, we have labs for this. > Then, if some small difference is noticed, I must ask is it important? If > not, then see above. The one to ask if it is important is the consumer. They are the ones who will decide which one to buy. >> You see it "unfair" for there to be classes within the >> industry. If only all things could be equal but such is not life. >> I guess for me to believe yours is far superior you would have to >> convince me that there is something about your management practices that >> would indicate this and then you would have to be willing to back it up >> with lab testing. > > What can I say? My honey is routinely and exhaustively tested in a very > sensitive lab and I am confident that there are no detectable residues from > the products we use. I don't know if you are saying no detectable residues above the "acceptable" levels or absolutely no detection? -Barry Article 28193 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:48:22 -0600 Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> <930hd8$g00$1@newsfeed.logical.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.197 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978587299 9007182 216.167.143.197 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!GT-News!cc.gatech.edu!finch!andromeda.5sc.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.197!not-for-mail Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28193 huestis suggest: >I say lets wait two years and see if the small cell thing is still >around I talked to Ed Lusby at the Honey Producers annual meeting in Corpus Christi, Texas in 1996 and he said they were using the smaller cells then. In fact at that meeting Dee Lusby distributed some reprints of their previously published papers regarding why they thought this was a good way to go. (vanquishing varroa without chemicals) They are still using and now 'making' the smaller foundation so they must be satisfied with the results. I would say the verdict is in, and smaller cells are an important contribution to (as the phrase goes) one's Integrated Pest Management program. C.K. Article 28194 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!feeder.qis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.197!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:59:34 -0600 Lines: 59 Message-ID: <5v385ts9krgnrjcd98b8qb2n38jg4orq4a@4ax.com> References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <92mvc8$bk8$1@saltmine.radix.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.197 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978587972 9196008 216.167.143.197 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28194 >Many >consumers stated that the provisions proposed for bee forage, which required >only that a predominant portion of the bees' forage be organic, The only way a 'bee' can forage 'organically' is if the 'environment' she is foraging in is 'clean' and 'unpolluted.' This requires a national and Global desire to achieve, which isn't there among the 'forces' that might make it happen. Name a place in this country (USA) now where bees can be guaranteed to forage 'organically?' If you have bees around any 'agri business' concerns, you'll be lucky to even keep your bees alive, much less worry about what they bring into the hive. If you keep bees in a town or city, it's just as bad, with the 'general public's access to off-the-shelf pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides, and their preponderance for damaging products like 'chemlawn', or the now recognized malady of 'suburban sensibilities,' then what chance for a bottle of 'organic honey?' >The [National Organic >Standards Board] has agreed to review and recommned an apiculture practice >standard for organic honey production and hive care, including the origin of >organic bees." We already know how to keep bees 'organically' of course one's production will suffer in the present state of imported parasites and the environment extensively polluted by 'approved' agri business chemicals. This whole discussion is stupid anyway (as Allen Dick said in too many words) because if the bees were kept free of chemicals in their hive they would still produce honey with 'possible' contaminants if those contaminants are present in the environment bees use for forage. If the amount of agriculture chemicals found in random supplies of water across the U.S. are any indicator, they're in the soil too, and possibly systemic to many plants that attract bees. Allen Dick said: >I do not live >in the US and mostly only rely on the USDA when in the US of A. To make my >position clear, though, I believe that the USDA and EPA are doing what they >can to try to balance a lot of opposing forces. Since you are a Canadian you have the advantage of living in a 'left-centrist' somewhat caring democracy, and subsequently have the 'luxury' of seeing things like that. However, Americans, on the other hand, live in a fairly far right less caring democracy with the power in the hands of 'special interest' and that usually always means 'corporations' that have an agenda for making money at all cost. This is our fate, as Americans, for 'embracing the capitalist system so extensively and in such an 'unregulated' way that it has become the undisputed power guiding our Republic. The safeguards and standards the USDA or the EPA were instituted to perform are now in question. (I'll give you examples if you like, but that's not the reason for this post) Recent events (not discussed here) have suggested that it is not only the highest courts in our system that can adjust it's decisions to achieve political goals and so it should not be surprising when tax supported institutions installed to maintain standards and consumer protection, can be made to follow the same political position. I'm not 'shocked' about this, just sad it has happened. C.K. Article 28195 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!csulb.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.197!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:03:27 -0600 Lines: 58 Message-ID: References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <92mvc8$bk8$1@saltmine.radix.net> <92pu64$7p2ch$1@ID-58605.news.dfncis.de> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.197 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978588204 9196008 216.167.143.197 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28195 >Call it what you want, but it doesn't change the reality that there are >beekeepers managing their bees without the use of chemicals. I'm one of those. I simply refuse to do it. This doesn't mean I don't have losses from newly introduced parasites and the other usual loss making organisms like AFB or Moths. It also means I won't use chemicals with the excuse that my business depends on it because it doesn't. I'm not a 'commercial' beekeeper, and don't think in the present agri business climate, anyone else should be either. Learn another way to get by. There are two distinct maladies of 'affluent societies' that everyone can agree: Cancer and Heart disease. It is generally accepted in these societies as to what 'causes' heart disease, i.e. eating a high fat low nutrient diet, with no exercise, but when it comes to cancer, because of the 'commercial' implications, no one is suggesting that maybe the environment is polluted extensively and we must just accept this as being necessary to living in an 'advanced' country. The point is, if you believe it's wrong to introduce possible carcinogenic substances into your hives and subsequently your honey, just to earn a 'living' then you're being wrong, and no better than the worst of agri business MBA's and Scientist, driven by greed, and not, as they would have you think, their altruistic feelings of feeding a hungry world. Beekeepers have to ignore the 'experts' especially when it comes to the "in your hives and off your mind" agri business solutions to 'saving your business.' Beekeepers must remain 'independent' even if that means driving a truck or teaching school, or like me, being a potter. By sticking to this simple philosophy and the 'mysterious' order of things, natural defenses, unexpected discoveries and beneficial permutations will occur. (they always do) (you need to have faith here, I'm not talking about the big guy in the sky, or that eternal life business, but the faith of the great power of nature to help out when you're on 'her' side. If it doesn't take place in your lifetime, so what; the important thing is to promote your good habits to the next generation, with the firm belief that somewhere down the line, these practices will pay off; in short, try to be bigger than yourself) I think it's good to hunt for and promote different types of bees one finds locally, no matter what size cell they use, but are selected instead for their tendency to survive, and there will always be 'some.' At least this has been my experience. I think as in plants and animals, lots of 'unstandardized' diversity is the best solution for our small and remote planet. C.K. A beekeeper that refuses (religious like) to use agri-business chemicals in his bee hives. Charlie Kroeger (your name invited to be next on the list) Article 28196 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee Culture - Jan. 2001 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:26:51 -0600 Lines: 16 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYQkdLgA9EtQrp3P/0t05zHPU7sd5g6H0RMJpCJ27yScR88SxJkt3Gw X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 06:27:52 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28196 NEWS FROM CANADA CALGARY - Alberta provincial apiarist Doug Colter said an increasing incidence of American foul brood is beginning to be found in the Canadian province. Analysis of samples from hives sent in by 28 Alberta beekeepers found evidence of AFB in eight that it's becoming resistant to the current antibiotic treatment. "I'm afraid this fall when I start inspecting colonies it will be just the tip of the iceberg," he said. The eight samples came from beekeepers with a combined 26,000 hives - 15 percent of Alberta's total. Article 28197 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:14:37 -0600 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZiW56diRIZT/IrPfjcd671ArIe2nmL9BrlyB1URdZfj74gaJSnXKQc X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 07:15:37 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28197 in article Xns901D7280allendinternodenet@198.80.55.10, Allen Dick at allend@internode.net wrote on 1/2/01 2:11 AM: > What can I say? My honey is routinely and exhaustively tested in a very > sensitive lab and I am confident that there are no detectable residues from > the products we use. We have exported repeatedly to countries that will > reject a shipment on any pretext, no matter how contrived. Alberta clover > honey is known worldwide to be among the world's very best honies and > commands a premium price. Allen - One other thing. What filtering process do you use on your honey? I know a lot of commercial beekeepers filter their honey through micro filters that take everything out of the honey. Most people interested in organic honey want all that stuff that filters take out (pollen, wax, etc.). Perhaps part of the reason your honey passes testing is due to your filtering. -Barry Article 28199 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Teri Bachus" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee Culture - Jan. 2001 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:54:07 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 21 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28199 believe usda has also researched linoleic acid as an alternative foulbrood treatment and found similar results...found at http://news.com.au:80/common/story_page/0,4057,1567572%255E1245,00.html Two West Australian researchers have discovered that pollen found in red gum trees, also known as the marri, is high in a fatty acid known as linoleic acid, which helps lower cholesterol. The acid, discovered by Agriculture WA researchers Rob Manning and Maeve Harvey, has been found to be a natural biocide against American Foulbrood and European Foulbrood, two diseases found in honey bees. Article 28200 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 12 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 04 Jan 2001 11:06:44 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Help. I've got queen cells. Message-ID: <20010104060644.04403.00001002@ng-ft1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28200 I've got several queen cells (very little other larva and no drones, of course) in my observation hive. I still have a queen, too. Anybody know what's going on here? When these virgin queens hatch, if they old queen doesn't get them, how on earth can they get mated this time of year? Will they wait? I just noticed these queen cells, all nicely sealed up, so I only have a few days and something is going to happen, I suspect......My how these little ones are always full of surprises. Buzzylee ksinIIf the queens hatchaveIMy observa Article 28201 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 04 Jan 2001 11:27:07 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Message-ID: <20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28201 "The Life of the Bee" is one of my favorites, too. Although I've read many times that all honeybees were European and brought here, I recently read in a couple different books that we have some 3000 more more native species of honeybees here. Possibly they are "cousins" and not part of the immediate Apis Mellifera family, I don't know. do you know? I guess that gives me something to research in these bleak grey days of Winter in these parts (Oregon)..... Yet, I do find it hard to believe, given the millions of insect species and how success they are in our world that there were not (again, as so many books in beekeeping claim) ANY honey bees in North America before the Europeans brought them. Buzzylee Article 28202 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Teri Bachus" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:31:15 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 9 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28202 re: small combcell controversy, believe that the lusby's are possibly using an indigenous (non-native) apis mellifera mellifera/apis mellifera scutellata hybrid stock for which <5.0mm cell size would be appropriate and contribute to apparent varroa tolerance...also the environmental conditions of arizona could have an effect, as well as their other management strategies...lots of uncontrolled variables to choose from that may/may not be applicable to other beekeeping situations... Article 28203 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:29:08 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978623161 nnrp-09:18568 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 92 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28203 >On the other hand, none of us old timers can afford to ignore a new idea. >I'm *always* looking for new ideas and testing them carefully. So are all >the old beekeepers I meet. Like you, I am not too proud to steal anyones good idea.....if I can see the logic of it......and have done a suitably trial for a suitable length of time. Hence I spent about $100K on new things last spring. New type hives, new combs, new extracting system. This is not the conservative prickly attitude that is being portrayed in those (see another reply to your post) who question the validity of the cell size issue here, and I similarly cannot see it being a fair portrayal of yourself either, after some time corresponding together, both on and off lists. The hypersensitivity bit I touched on before has cropped up again in Barry's reply. It drips with acid, yet I cannot understand why. This 'apparent breakthrough' SHOULD be scrutinised, and very closely indeed, because there is some odd portrayal of success going on here. If I went down the route suggested I would not get past year two before the bankruptcy sale was held. No-one surely can claim that any program, which several years into it, still has 50% of the hives unoccupied, and has bees which 'are reluctant to draw comb', and annually struggles to get back up to this level, can be a flagship success. Yet that is what we are expected to accept, and WITHOUT QUESTION. Annual shakedown would cost us nearly 70% of our colonies in the following winter. We KNOW. We have done it and paid the penalty when experimenting with shaken swarms as a control method. Do it two years in a row and we are coming back to a tiny (and bust) enterprise, operating on a cell size we only ever have found in the sickliest most malnourished of colonies, a cell size quickly abandoned as soon as the bees get the chance. I see he is also giving mineral oil another plug, a thing which happened to get a lot of attention a while back. Now, I've asked it before, but what ever did happen to Elroy, whose faith in mineral oil alone was going to have him at 2000 hives by the year 2000. I heard off list from someone who said he had lost all or most of his bees, but with what authority they were speaking I do not know. > > >I found some of these new notions quite a while back, before they attracted >a cult following, and looked them over closely. I was very unconvinced, >but also very surprised that some of the people with whom I examined them >got sucked in -- and now dislike me -- solely, I think, for being so >unbearably doubtful and irreverent. . If they cannot handle this situation without getting personal that is their problem. These people take questions as criticism, and if they are so sure of their ground they should actually welcome them and give full and frank answers, rather than paranoid retorts. After all, 'we dont know yet' is a frank and fair answer if that is the case, but one they seem unable to admit to. I just do not like the way this debate has gone, and told myself not to get involved, but it really is too much when they cannot accept pertinent questions without taking it as destructive. I have no questions left to ask of these people at present. I have tried, and just got sharply (and smugly) questioned back in return, without getting anything other than a pat answer and referred to an incestuous group of documents. A friend of mine even found himself being privately flamed when asking valid questions about genetic claims, and left the group in question overnight. I know this spills over into an exchange currently going on in another thread regarding organic standards, but I feel that the market advantage being sought is strictly by being as treacherous as possible to their fellow beekeepers who do not follow their edicts. Basically, they are quite happy to sow the seeds of 'most honey contains poisons' in the publics mind irrespective of whether it is true, in order to make their own sales secure. They might not actually say it in so many words, but nonetheless that is what they are quite callously prepared to do. Far from creating a premium brand they will actually condemn most other types to being perceived as of secondary quality, when there is little evidence to suggest that good beekeepers and packers are selling a product even remotely toxic. Organic and Natural are two of the most misused words here. The case which always comes to mind is that of our local environmental health department, whose most contaminated sample of food ever found was organically grown strawberries. Confusing these terms with food safety is something of a mischief, as 'organic' is a lifestyle statement really, rather than a purity mark, and 'natural' is pretty well a meaningless marketing tool open to lots of potential abuse. No doubt more will follow, as somehow I think this thread could run and run. -- Murray McGregor Article 28204 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:01:25 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978624118 nnrp-02:780 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 34 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28204 In article , Teri Bachus writes >re: small combcell controversy, believe that the lusby's are possibly using >an indigenous (non-native) apis mellifera mellifera/apis mellifera >scutellata hybrid stock for which <5.0mm cell size would be appropriate and >contribute to apparent varroa tolerance...also the environmental conditions >of arizona could have an effect, as well as their other management >strategies...lots of uncontrolled variables to choose from that may/may not >be applicable to other beekeeping situations... > > Dee Lusby has claimed repeatedy to be in possession of DNA results which prove her bees are not africanised as they are exactly the same as before the arrival of the africanised bees. on the other hand When questioned about her assertion that the bees had genetically changed through selection to small cell size, she has several times claimed to be in possession of DNA analyses which show that they HAVE changed since they started their regime. Guess that answers nothing. If her bees were africanised, and we can only accept her statements that they are most definitely not, then perhaps that would go a long way to explaining the quoted figures, without any need for the cell size issue to raise its head. This issue just raises more questions at every turn, and very few answers. It apparently works for them, at least to their required level of satisfaction, and I guess that is all we really know. -- Murray McGregor Article 28205 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!Tele.Dk.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee Culture - Jan. 2001 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:06:04 +0100 Organization: Posted Courtesy of Tele Danmark or one of its European Subsidiaries Lines: 36 Message-ID: <932rom$ff8$1@news.inet.tele.dk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip15.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 978645590 15848 195.249.242.15 X-Complaints-To: the appropriate department of the poster's provider X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28205 "Barry Birkey" skrev i en meddelelse news:B67973CB.8EDD%barry@birkey.com... > NEWS FROM CANADA > > CALGARY - Alberta provincial apiarist Doug Colter said an increasing > incidence of American foul brood is beginning to be found in the Canadian > province. I think that that after I have followed what is going on around in the world, whenever people are trying to interfere with nature and using drugs, at some point they will get to a boarder. In Denmark we are trying not to use drugs in beekeeping under any circumstances, but are handling diseases the beekeeping technical way. you can try to visit my homepage and read the section about AFB. -- Kind regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software full revised and bug tested 10-12-2000 Now chatroom for beekeeping installed. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 28206 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:28:39 -0600 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY2J/5QwOBIvmQ/QmMXZ4toHczirwqgALO1bvRoa+/3IYorZy3eFnY4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 23:29:41 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28206 in article t592fbde3ftr7f@corp.supernews.com, Teri Bachus at bachmoz@aug.com wrote on 1/4/01 8:31 AM: > re: small combcell controversy, believe that the lusby's are possibly using > an indigenous (non-native) apis mellifera mellifera/apis mellifera > scutellata hybrid stock for which <5.0mm cell size would be appropriate and > contribute to apparent varroa tolerance...also the environmental conditions > of arizona could have an effect, as well as their other management > strategies...lots of uncontrolled variables to choose from that may/may not > be applicable to other beekeeping situations... Hi Teri - Several things are possibly different but when various people are currently using 4.9 cell size from different ends of the U.S. and different ends of Europe with success, that theory kinda goes out the door. Regards, Barry Article 28207 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:23:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978655116 nnrp-14:18079 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 183 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28207 In article <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net>, huestis writes >Hi all, > >Looking for info on A.M.M. Most literature that I have come across seems >very biased. Could someone (especially those who have them) list their >characteristics. I promised this posting early last year! I am glad to be jogged into writing this though I should be doing my tax return! There is much research and development going on in Europe into A.m.m. You have been referred to BIBBA and the Galtee group and German sites. DNA work has been started and is very promising. Bee Improvement, the journal of BIBBA has many excellent articles and the many publications of BIBBA since the 60's are a fine start to a library on A.m.m. with Beo Cooper's Honeybees of the British Isles (1986) also available from BIBBA. For those unfamiliar with the different races we are talking about one race (possibly with 3 subdivisions in France) which colonised the whole of Europe *north* of the mountain ranges which separate it from southern Europe - from the Pyrenees to the Caucasus. After the last Ice Age, the small pocket of bees left surviving during the long Ice Age in S.W. France expanded following the growth of trees. There are many identified pockets of almost pure A.m.m. which we tend to call "near native" since cross mating with many imported races started in the mid 1800's and intensified after the 1914-18 war. Nevertheless the climate is a harsh selector and many of us are convinced that the imports have a harder time especially where it is wet and cool in spring (and wet and relatively cool every other time too!). Being one who selects for the native characters along with a group of local friends also BIBBA members they are as follows. Cool weather flying (some local bees have been seen flying at 8C shade temperature from a sunny wall - wild colony). Mine regularly fly from 9C. Beo Cooper reported bees flying at 7.2C to collect pollen from turnip. The same goes for drones - black bees are the first to fly and often the only bees flying if there are mixed races or hybrids present to compare with. Beo estimated that in favourable areas dark bees have the advantage over yellow bees for half the time rising to 95% of the time in areas like where I keep bees. So the selection in mating is high. This may be reversed in hot summers (like once upon a time we did have!). Beo suggested that Workers flying in bright sun should be able to collect pollen at 5.5C in still air and drones from 7C. I have never attempted to measure this but identify colonies which start flying soonest as ones to breed from. He also saw queens flying at 9C. Tends not to fly over snow but will fly in light rain. I haven't been able to test this as we rarely have snow here. Dark - black or brown and shades between. They can have yellow underneath. Hairy - long abdominal overhairs. I have not measured these. Non-prolific but long-lived. The two together with low temperature flying means that in our "marginal" climate it out performs other bees most years. I have not yet marked workers to test how long, but 10 weeks as adult is mentioned by Beo from studies of workers marked in May. Hence the smaller British hives. Most years colonies will not fill a 11 frame hive of 8 1/2" x 14" frames. I have some that push this a bit but the idea of 2 Langstroth hives for one colony is far-fetched! I have some colonies on the "Unified" frame of 14" x 14" and they go up to 9 frames absolute maximum with a lovely oval brood shape (vertical axis - better for heat conservation). It means also that queens can last longer - 3 years would be common and 4-5 years would be reasonable for bees kept in one smaller brood chamber. They also seem to be more "compressible" i.e. less liable to a "compression" swarm if they are confined to a smaller hive. Storage of pollen is very high - this gives it a strong cushion when they cannot get out. They will still collect large quantities of pollen even when queenless! In spring and summer they may have 2-3 weeks pollen stored. Also pollen is stored anywhere - under the brood and even in amongst the brood. I have several colonies where the pollen is all round the brood. They also lay up stocks of pollen in late summer. I haven't investigated this myself, but Beo reckoned that most of the late pollen was eaten by early October even if the bees stopped rearing brood in late August. Here we think the bees winter on fat stores in their bodies and use little honey in the winter. This is a selecting character again. If they can do this they can survive if cut off from their stores in cold weather. There is a characteristic wing type which members measure diligently and which differentiates it from Italian and Carnican bees (and others). Beo suggested it allows large pollen and nectar loads which are helpful with poorer nectar. he also suggested they fly more slowly, rest more frequently, but have greater staying power than Italians in the wind. (Is this the kind of bias you have met?) Beo *suggested* a genetically larger bee size - 700 foundation producing bees with 5-10% greater wing breadth and length with corresponding increase in size. Italians and Carnicans don't increase much if put on 700. I have always taken this to be true having seen my dark bees as larger than many others. Please note I am not getting into the cell size discussion here though I will be assessing this next year along with some other BIBBA members. They are thrifty and adjust brood rearing to income or stores. They will not go flat out regardless of the position and starve if they run out. They have been observed to stop even with 9kg stores (20lb). I have not paid particular attention to this but last summer I had to feed one colony only - 2 weeks of May were good then the last 2 weeks in July and the first 2 in August - the rest were poor - wet and unusually cool - prolonged! Recently we have had long mild winters and cool springs - the result larger than usual colonies in May. Honey cappings convex. There appears to be a small air layer over the honey. This seems also to be a selection character as the cells are protected from weeping in wet autumns. I have not tested for air myself. Cool air clustering helps them make wax on old nights. Brood pattern compact - spherical or taller than broad (in hilly and northern latitudes). Winter honey storage in the brood chamber near the entrance. Lots of my colonies stock up from late July as the brood nest is contracting and the whole thing fills up. It is usually easy to have the recommended 40lb honey in the brood chamber without feeding, though I know lots of beekeepers who take as much as they can and feed sugar syrup to get maximum profit. Few of my colonies need feeding, though I sometimes leave a super on if there's less than 20lb. 30lb I leave them to the ivy to fill up - hopefully. The compacting of stores near the entrance seems to help them stay in contact with stores and defend the nest better as well as get it all properly ripened. Broodnest temperature varies. It can go down as low as 18C. I have never measured this at all. It may be associated with a greater susceptibility to chalk brood. This year we had a lot, but the colonies recovered in May very well (all except one of mine which presumably found difficulty covering the brood, which never provided sufficient bees to replace the dying ones, so could never keep the brood temperature up). Low tendency to drift. Marked drones tend to stay in the same hive over months (Beo). This tendency helps apiary vicinity mating keep an apiary within strain. The spread of disease is reduced. Drones expelled earlier and in times of nectar dearth. This can happen several times in a season. So there may be several batches of drones reared in a season. Drone assemblies and apiary vicinity mating - in addition to major drone assemblies there are local assemblies which form in changeable weather or warm humid periods of thundery or showery weather - often within 200m of the apiary (Beo). However, where the weather is less settled or more rainy there may not be enough time for these to form so queens and drones mate close to the hives in bursts of sunshine for example. Queens may mate with drones that follow them out of the hive! This has been seen - but not by me. One queen was seen mating on the side of a hive! Compatible temperament! Over generations, whilst a proportion of colonies may be bad tempered and the queen is culled to keep good temper as a major characteristic of the apiary strain, on the whole, they tend to keep the temper good. Supersedure is common - Beo reckoned at least 10%, many native strains being 25% - some approach 100%. I have not counted over the years but I am selecting the breeder queens to have survived at least 2 years and superseded if possible. Even better are queens whose daughters let her live - I had 1 definitely confirmed this year. This year there were some late supersedures (September) one of which was too late because of foul weather for a very long time Overall the climate selects for characters assisting survival, even where we beekeepers try to assist our colonies. Beo used the term "ecological" isolation to contrast with the more easily understood "geographical" isolation breeders often use and those wanting within strain mating to be more guaranteed. Several of the factors mentioned above fall into this category and explain why black bees seem to select themselves if you don't import new queens on an annual basis. I would dearly love to have figures of productivity comparing races and hybrids over the years as unless you are a migratory beekeeper I see no reason to import non-native bees to the UK. > Also info on them from the turn of the century 1800's to >1950. State source please, thanks. I don't have any but if there's no response from others, I will have a look at some of the old texts we have in our library. -- James Kilty Article 28208 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9285pb$dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4E21FB.7D69EB85@together.net> <3zq36.138159$65.1099832@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <3A4E8787.9A4AB96C@together.net> <%VG36.139853$65.1102264@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978655108 nnrp-14:18079 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 13 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28208 In article <92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, loggermike writes > >> > >> >Ha!another hippy from the 60s(reformed or otherwise).I guess there >are still a few of us around(who would never admit it)Im 47 years old >and still like to listen to Pink Floyd at full volume blasting from my >truck stereo while working bees. Dark Side of the Moon came 2nd to Sergeant Pepper in a nation-wide (UK) survey of the most influential music. There must be a lot of hippies out there. My favourite. -- James Kilty Article 28209 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: How do I clean my wax? Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <0qD4S3B3bPV6EwsW@kilty.demon.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978655110 nnrp-14:18079 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 24 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28209 In article , Nancy W writes >Can anyone share the best way to clean beeswax? We're making lip balm and >have a ton of dirty wax. Any advice would be appreciated. It's a lot of wax so a steam extractor which can push the wax through a filter would be fine. A friend uses the Thomas 82 litre extractor with a hessian sack as the filter. It works extremely well indeed. The wax comes out clean and quite fast especially if it starts in blocks. For finer work use a finer filter! Last price I had was 3637.13 FF EXW before VAT (exempt outside EU). Your ton of wax is worth a lot more than this as is your finished product so it would be well worth it to buy one. It is marketed in the UK by Steele and Brodie contact Mike Osborne mailto: steele&brodie@sol.co.uk Elsewhere direct from Thomas. Contact Lionel BOURON SNT THOMAS BP 2 - 45450 Fay aux Loges - FRANCE Tél 33 2 38 46 88 00 Fax 33 2 38 59 28 28 Email: thomapi@wanadoo.fr Site INTERNET: www.apiculture.com/thomas -- James Kilty Article 28210 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.228!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Racoons Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:18:21 -0600 Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3a4c05c6.1322285@news.btx.dtag.de> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.228 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978675503 9162859 216.167.138.228 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28210 George ask: >have any one experience with this nice animals called " racoon"? >How can I protect my hives from them? Hi George..Racoons are like a little bear, and sometimes not so little (40 lbs. - 18kg) they also have prehensile hands and this makes for trouble too. I use a cast portland cement top (35 lb - 16kg) to hold things steady in storms but they also prevent tampering from animals like raccoons. I also use a special reduced entrance near the handhold of 3/8 X3 in. (10mm X 76mm) the bottom is closed completely with 4X4X4 in. (10cm.) 'legs' to rest on the ground. Raccoons and skunks, snakes, rats, and mice, can't get in. The hive is also fairly defensible from robbing bees and intruding moths. I leave this entrance on year round. You could go one better and create a frame that covered the above entrance and cover that with a 3/8 in. mesh wire. You can't be too careful. The weight of the top and the wire grill over the small entrance will prevent attacks from almost any creature, excepting a bear, I should think. C.K. Article 28211 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!64.152.100.70!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard From: allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/03.11.14 Lines: 38 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:09:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.182 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 978678545 198.161.229.182 (Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:09:05 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:09:05 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28211 >One other thing. What filtering process do you use on your honey? None whatsoever. I'd actually have thought you knew that. I have explained all this at length and in detail on BEE-L. I am talking of raw bulk honey. That is all I produce. >I know >a lot of commercial beekeepers filter their honey through micro filters >that take everything out of the honey. Then you again know something no one else seems to know. I know a lot of commercial beekeepers personally and have been in their plants. I know of no commercial beekeepers in North America who micro filter honey. I do know of lots of *packers* -- maybe most -- who use diatomacious earth to filter honey for retail packs, but I don't believe that is 'micro- filtering'. I seem to recall micro filtering involves such fine filtering that colour and flavour are removed and this process is used to produce industrial honey, or have I got this wrong? Maybe that is ultra filtering? Anyhow, I do not filter honey. >Most people interested in organic >honey want all that stuff that filters take out (pollen, wax, etc.). You seem to assume that I do not know this. That niche was my market from 1972 until recently when I sold the business. >Perhaps part of the reason your honey passes testing is due to your >filtering. I can see that it is hard to accept facts that go against your favourite theories. Sounds like you need a holiday. I sure do. allen Article 28212 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Teri Bachus" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee Culture - Jan. 2001 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:24:51 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28212 from http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/wales/newsid_1100000/1100088.stm Honeybees hold antibiotic secret "...The discovery of an antibiotic that exists naturally in beehives could be used to protect honeybee populations under threat from disease.... Brian Dancer and Stuart Prince, of Cardiff University's School of Biosciences, have identified an antibiotic complex from harmless bacteria that could prove to be a useful tool for beekeepers.... Dr Dancer said: "We envisage that the spores of this 'natural' antibiotic will be fed to bees, providing them with a protective microflora that could act either prophylactically or as a treatment in disease outbreaks.... The researchers say the complex kills the harmful bacteria that cause both types of foulbrood disease. Dr Dancer's work is being transferred from the laboratory to practical use with funding for further microbiology research at Cardiff...." Article 28213 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: paul_bilodeau@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: BEE-L Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:35:07 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: <934iib$efc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.31.165 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 05 13:35:07 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x52.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 208.161.31.165 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDpaul_bilodeau Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28213 In article , "Andrew Kidd" wrote: > Can someone tell me how to subscribe to BEE-L please? > > Try this... Go to www.bee-l.com and look for the catagory called: "Discussion Groups via Email or Browser". In this catagory, click ob "Bee-L" which will take you to another page which gives you all the options. Good Luck, Paul Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28214 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.logical.net!not-for-mail From: "huestis" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:01:40 -0800 Organization: Logical Net Lines: 197 Message-ID: <934kp3$duf$1@newsfeed.logical.net> References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.23.8.189 X-Trace: newsfeed.logical.net 978703971 14287 209.23.8.189 (5 Jan 2001 14:12:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@logical.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jan 2001 14:12:51 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28214 James, Thanks for the info. That's what I was looking for. I what to compare the present A.m.m. to the same bee of the 1800's to see what has changed. I don't keep A.m.m.( have carnica) so I needed someone who keeps them to list their characteristics. The bias I was talking about in my original post was that many books on this side of the pond state that A.m.m. is very aggressive and should be avoided(for beginners). Why? I have no idea. Clay James Kilty wrote in message news:jkwdh7B6PRV6EwPO@kilty.demon.co.uk... > In article <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net>, huestis > writes > >Hi all, > > > >Looking for info on A.M.M. Most literature that I have come across seems > >very biased. Could someone (especially those who have them) list their > >characteristics. > I promised this posting early last year! I am glad to be jogged into > writing this though I should be doing my tax return! > > There is much research and development going on in Europe into A.m.m. > You have been referred to BIBBA and the Galtee group and German sites. > DNA work has been started and is very promising. Bee Improvement, the > journal of BIBBA has many excellent articles and the many publications > of BIBBA since the 60's are a fine start to a library on A.m.m. with Beo > Cooper's Honeybees of the British Isles (1986) also available from > BIBBA. For those unfamiliar with the different races we are talking > about one race (possibly with 3 subdivisions in France) which colonised > the whole of Europe *north* of the mountain ranges which separate it > from southern Europe - from the Pyrenees to the Caucasus. After the last > Ice Age, the small pocket of bees left surviving during the long Ice Age > in S.W. France expanded following the growth of trees. > > There are many identified pockets of almost pure A.m.m. which we tend to > call "near native" since cross mating with many imported races started > in the mid 1800's and intensified after the 1914-18 war. Nevertheless > the climate is a harsh selector and many of us are convinced that the > imports have a harder time especially where it is wet and cool in spring > (and wet and relatively cool every other time too!). > > Being one who selects for the native characters along with a group of > local friends also BIBBA members they are as follows. > > Cool weather flying (some local bees have been seen flying at 8C shade > temperature from a sunny wall - wild colony). Mine regularly fly from > 9C. Beo Cooper reported bees flying at 7.2C to collect pollen from > turnip. The same goes for drones - black bees are the first to fly and > often the only bees flying if there are mixed races or hybrids present > to compare with. Beo estimated that in favourable areas dark bees have > the advantage over yellow bees for half the time rising to 95% of the > time in areas like where I keep bees. So the selection in mating is > high. This may be reversed in hot summers (like once upon a time we did > have!). Beo suggested that Workers flying in bright sun should be able > to collect pollen at 5.5C in still air and drones from 7C. I have never > attempted to measure this but identify colonies which start flying > soonest as ones to breed from. He also saw queens flying at 9C. > > Tends not to fly over snow but will fly in light rain. I haven't been > able to test this as we rarely have snow here. > > Dark - black or brown and shades between. They can have yellow > underneath. > > Hairy - long abdominal overhairs. I have not measured these. > > Non-prolific but long-lived. The two together with low temperature > flying means that in our "marginal" climate it out performs other bees > most years. I have not yet marked workers to test how long, but 10 weeks > as adult is mentioned by Beo from studies of workers marked in May. > Hence the smaller British hives. Most years colonies will not fill a 11 > frame hive of 8 1/2" x 14" frames. I have some that push this a bit but > the idea of 2 Langstroth hives for one colony is far-fetched! I have > some colonies on the "Unified" frame of 14" x 14" and they go up to 9 > frames absolute maximum with a lovely oval brood shape (vertical axis - > better for heat conservation). It means also that queens can last longer > - 3 years would be common and 4-5 years would be reasonable for bees > kept in one smaller brood chamber. They also seem to be more > "compressible" i.e. less liable to a "compression" swarm if they are > confined to a smaller hive. > > Storage of pollen is very high - this gives it a strong cushion when > they cannot get out. They will still collect large quantities of pollen > even when queenless! In spring and summer they may have 2-3 weeks pollen > stored. Also pollen is stored anywhere - under the brood and even in > amongst the brood. I have several colonies where the pollen is all round > the brood. They also lay up stocks of pollen in late summer. I haven't > investigated this myself, but Beo reckoned that most of the late pollen > was eaten by early October even if the bees stopped rearing brood in > late August. Here we think the bees winter on fat stores in their bodies > and use little honey in the winter. This is a selecting character again. > If they can do this they can survive if cut off from their stores in > cold weather. > > There is a characteristic wing type which members measure diligently and > which differentiates it from Italian and Carnican bees (and others). Beo > suggested it allows large pollen and nectar loads which are helpful with > poorer nectar. he also suggested they fly more slowly, rest more > frequently, but have greater staying power than Italians in the wind. > (Is this the kind of bias you have met?) > > Beo *suggested* a genetically larger bee size - 700 foundation producing > bees with 5-10% greater wing breadth and length with corresponding > increase in size. Italians and Carnicans don't increase much if put on > 700. I have always taken this to be true having seen my dark bees as > larger than many others. Please note I am not getting into the cell size > discussion here though I will be assessing this next year along with > some other BIBBA members. > > They are thrifty and adjust brood rearing to income or stores. They will > not go flat out regardless of the position and starve if they run out. > They have been observed to stop even with 9kg stores (20lb). I have not > paid particular attention to this but last summer I had to feed one > colony only - 2 weeks of May were good then the last 2 weeks in July and > the first 2 in August - the rest were poor - wet and unusually cool - > prolonged! Recently we have had long mild winters and cool springs - the > result larger than usual colonies in May. > > Honey cappings convex. There appears to be a small air layer over the > honey. This seems also to be a selection character as the cells are > protected from weeping in wet autumns. I have not tested for air myself. > > Cool air clustering helps them make wax on old nights. > > Brood pattern compact - spherical or taller than broad (in hilly and > northern latitudes). > > Winter honey storage in the brood chamber near the entrance. Lots of my > colonies stock up from late July as the brood nest is contracting and > the whole thing fills up. It is usually easy to have the recommended > 40lb honey in the brood chamber without feeding, though I know lots of > beekeepers who take as much as they can and feed sugar syrup to get > maximum profit. Few of my colonies need feeding, though I sometimes > leave a super on if there's less than 20lb. 30lb I leave them to the ivy > to fill up - hopefully. The compacting of stores near the entrance seems > to help them stay in contact with stores and defend the nest better as > well as get it all properly ripened. > > Broodnest temperature varies. It can go down as low as 18C. I have never > measured this at all. It may be associated with a greater susceptibility > to chalk brood. This year we had a lot, but the colonies recovered in > May very well (all except one of mine which presumably found difficulty > covering the brood, which never provided sufficient bees to replace the > dying ones, so could never keep the brood temperature up). > > Low tendency to drift. Marked drones tend to stay in the same hive over > months (Beo). This tendency helps apiary vicinity mating keep an apiary > within strain. The spread of disease is reduced. > > Drones expelled earlier and in times of nectar dearth. This can happen > several times in a season. So there may be several batches of drones > reared in a season. > > Drone assemblies and apiary vicinity mating - in addition to major drone > assemblies there are local assemblies which form in changeable weather > or warm humid periods of thundery or showery weather - often within 200m > of the apiary (Beo). However, where the weather is less settled or more > rainy there may not be enough time for these to form so queens and > drones mate close to the hives in bursts of sunshine for example. Queens > may mate with drones that follow them out of the hive! This has been > seen - but not by me. One queen was seen mating on the side of a hive! > > Compatible temperament! Over generations, whilst a proportion of > colonies may be bad tempered and the queen is culled to keep good temper > as a major characteristic of the apiary strain, on the whole, they tend > to keep the temper good. > > Supersedure is common - Beo reckoned at least 10%, many native strains > being 25% - some approach 100%. I have not counted over the years but I > am selecting the breeder queens to have survived at least 2 years and > superseded if possible. Even better are queens whose daughters let her > live - I had 1 definitely confirmed this year. This year there were some > late supersedures (September) one of which was too late because of foul > weather for a very long time > > Overall the climate selects for characters assisting survival, even > where we beekeepers try to assist our colonies. Beo used the term > "ecological" isolation to contrast with the more easily understood > "geographical" isolation breeders often use and those wanting within > strain mating to be more guaranteed. Several of the factors mentioned > above fall into this category and explain why black bees seem to select > themselves if you don't import new queens on an annual basis. > > I would dearly love to have figures of productivity comparing races and > hybrids over the years as unless you are a migratory beekeeper I see no > reason to import non-native bees to the UK. > > Also info on them from the turn of the century 1800's to > >1950. State source please, thanks. > I don't have any but if there's no response from others, I will have a > look at some of the old texts we have in our library. > > > -- > James Kilty Article 28215 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Teri Bachus" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:58:54 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 26 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28215 Barry Birkey wrote: >Several things are possibly different but when various people are currently >using 4.9 cell size from different ends of the U.S. and different ends of >Europe with success, that theory kinda goes out the door. hmmm...maybe african(ized) genetics have spread further than most may think, or are willing to admit...see http://beesource.com/news/article/azrepublic.htm "Killer Bees Live Calmly in U.S.": ...In 1985, Richard Nunamaker, a research entomologist stationed at the USDA Agricultural Research Service Labroatory in Laramie, Wyo., developed a method for identifying Africanized bees based on gene analysis. "At that time, we found low levels of Africanization in the United States, especially the southern United States," Nunamaker said.... see also http://www.ensam.inra.fr/URLB/apis/evolution/evolution.html "The origin of West European subspecies of honeybees (Apis mellifera) : new insights from mitochondrial DNA and microsatellite data." : ...variability observed in Spanish and Portuguese samples compared to that found in Africa is explained by a higher mutation rate and multiple and recent introductions. Selection appears as the best explanation to the morphological and allozymic clines and to the diffusion and maintenance of African haplotypes in Spain and Portugal... Article 28216 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.tele.dk!195.224.25.10!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Andrew Kidd" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: BEE-L Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:43:56 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Reply-To: "Andrew Kidd" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 3 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28216 Can someone tell me how to subscribe to BEE-L please? Article 28217 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!209.133.60.2.MISMATCH!localhost!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:45:17 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978684259 nnrp-09:10855 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 16 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28217 >Several things are possibly different but when various people are currently >using 4.9 cell size from different ends of the U.S. and different ends of >Europe with success, that theory kinda goes out the door. Really? I would be interested to know where this is happening, and in terms that I can count as success, ie not merely managing to exist. My interpretation of what I have read is that most of those trying it are just starting to use it and the jury is still very much out. Any colony (wild swarms) I have seen on small cells (the smallest I ever found was 5.05 ) were a sickly malnourished lot which quit the small cell combs and used them as honey storage as soon as things picked up and a good flow came on, reverting to 5.3 as soon as they could. -- Murray McGregor Article 28218 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!feeder.kornet.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:31:01 -0600 Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbpCW/w9u22NG/3pGMV74Kd8gQ93Y90UHTwbLsORzJEu9WNWSo7pGWs X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jan 2001 14:32:01 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28218 in article 20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com, LKLarson1 at lklarson1@aol.com wrote on 1/4/01 5:27 AM: > "The Life of the Bee" is one of my favorites, too. Although I've read many > times that all honeybees were European and brought here, I recently read in a > couple different books that we have some 3000 more more native species of > honeybees here. Possibly they are "cousins" and not part of the immediate > Apis > Mellifera family, I don't know. do you know? I guess that gives me > something > to research in these bleak grey days of Winter in these parts (Oregon)..... > Yet, I do find it hard to believe, given the millions of insect species and > how > success they are in our world that there were not (again, as so many books in > beekeeping claim) ANY honey bees in North America before the Europeans brought > them. > > Buzzylee Mendel talked of American bees in his papers. I too, find it to be an extremely exotic idea that there were no honeybees in America prior to the arrival of the European bee. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10180b.htm "It is, however, known that he devoted himself to various lines of investigation, bestowing much labour on the heredity of bees. He collected queen bees of all attainable races, European, Egyptian, and American, and made many crosses between the various races. Unfortunately, the notes which he is known to have made on this subject have completely disappeared, and it is not impossible that he may have destroyed them himself in some of the dark hours which he was called upon to endure during the last years of his life. " -Barry Article 28219 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:49:17 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <934tu9$p3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <9285pb$dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4E21FB.7D69EB85@together.net> <3zq36.138159$65.1099832@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <3A4E8787.9A4AB96C@together.net> <%VG36.139853$65.1102264@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.176 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 05 16:49:17 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x57.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.176 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28219 > Dark Side of the Moon came 2nd to Sergeant Pepper in a nation-wide (UK) > survey of the most influential music. There must be a lot of hippies out > there. My favourite. > -- > James Kilty > Dark Side Of The Moon was an absolute classic,still widely played on USA radio.One of my pet theories was that beekeeping(and logging)attracted a 'different breed of cat'mostly very independent people who really didnt fit in the corporate world.No brownnoses in this group! -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28220 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A525434.5CFCB752@suscom-maine.net> Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Lines: 21 Organization: Productive Solutions X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:08:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.51.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 978718127 12.72.51.65 (Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:08:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:08:47 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28220 I am glad to see this brought up in the debate. Indeed, if my memory of the proposed USDA standard serves, you MUST treat the animal (and remove it from production). If your livestock is suffering because of your failure to treat them, you risk losing your certification. -- Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@att.net To respond via email, get the "L" out of there "Bill Truesdell" wrote in message news:3A525434.5CFCB752@suscom-maine.net... >You can treat farm animals with a > variety of medicines and anti-biotics to preserve the life of the animal, > because horses, cows and fowl are expensive and they will still be > considered organically grown. Article 28221 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: 2smart2late@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:49:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 32 Message-ID: <9354vr$vpp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <9285pb$dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4E21FB.7D69EB85@together.net> <3zq36.138159$65.1099832@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <3A4E8787.9A4AB96C@together.net> <%VG36.139853$65.1102264@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com> <92nndi$bhp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <934tu9$p3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.169.101.113 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 05 18:49:34 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x65.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.169.101.113 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUID2smart2late Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28221 In article <934tu9$p3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, loggermike wrote: > > > > Dark Side of the Moon came 2nd to Sergeant Pepper in a nation-wide > (UK) > > survey of the most influential music. There must be a lot of hippies > out > > there. My favourite. > > -- > > James Kilty > > > Dark Side Of The Moon was an absolute classic,still widely > played on USA radio.One of my pet theories was that beekeeping(and > logging)attracted a 'different breed of cat'mostly very independent > people who really didnt fit in the corporate world.No brownnoses in > this group! > -- > loggermike > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ > when Dad says "I'm going to check the girls" and wades through 30" of snow to see how the hives are doing............. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28222 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!64.152.100.70!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: BEE-L Message-ID: <3a562cf8.1898556187@west.usenetserver.com> References: <934iib$efc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. X-Complaints-To: abuse@webusenet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:20:45 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:22:47 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28222 http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Default.htm has a direct link On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:35:07 GMT, paul_bilodeau@my-deja.com wrote: >In article , > "Andrew Kidd" wrote: >> Can someone tell me how to subscribe to BEE-L please? >> >> Try this... >Go to www.bee-l.com and look for the catagory called: "Discussion >Groups via Email or Browser". In this catagory, click ob "Bee-L" which >will take you to another page which gives you all the options. > >Good Luck, >Paul > > >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/ Article 28223 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: The (USA) EPA "Label Law" Is DEAD Unless YOU Save It Date: 5 Jan 2001 13:16:34 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 629 Message-ID: <935dji0r0d@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-726.newsdawg.com Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28223 Please forward to other beekeepers by all means possible. Time is short, and e-mail and letters to the EPA from as many beekeepers as possible has a good chance of having an impact. The phrase "pesticide kill" needs no explanation to beekeepers. Our sole protection against the mis-use of pesticides has been the EPA "Label Law", a law created as a direct result of excessive hive losses in the 1970s. Now, the EPA is considering removing the "Bee Precautionary Labeling", or making the wording so weak as to render it useless. The EPA has a "public comment period" open until Jan 22, 2001, so I'd like to ask every beekeeper to take the time to both read this (rather long) message, and send an e-mail to the EPA to object to their attempt to weaken the "label law". The following text is long, but it is an attempt to provide complete information on one place, so that all can be well-informed. (Clearly, well thought-out and well-written "public comments" can be more effective.) Each section is divided by a line of "<><><><>", and the sections are as follows: 1) An good overview of the situation, by Tom Theobold, a commercial beekeeper and freelance writer. 2) The e-mail address and requirements for "public comments". 3) The specific questions asked by the EPA in their request for public comments. 4) The complete text of the EPA "draft guidelines" that are proposed. (So that hardcopy can be distributed to those without web-browsers). <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> AN OVERVIEW (BY TOM THEOBOLD) The EPA, Pesticides and Beekeepers. An Editorial and call to Arms. By Tom Theobold In an apparently inadvertent irony of timing, the Environmental Protection Agency announced in the Federal Register its intention to seek public comment on a draft Pesticide Registration (PR) notice entitled "Guidance for Pesticide Registrants on Bee Precautionary Labeling". This announcement came on November 22, the day before Thanksgiving. In the war movies, this moment is typically accompanied by the panic cry "INCOMING"! Pesticides hazardous to honey bees have carried a label restriction since the early 1980s. It reads: "[This product] is HAZARDOUS TO BEES exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops and/or blooming weeds. Do not apply [this product] or allow it to drift to blooming crops and/or blooming weeds if bees are foraging the areas to be treated." The label restriction came about as a consequence of massive bee kills from pesticides in the 1970s. Unfortunately the chemical industry and State Regulators (the agencies typically delegated the authority by EPA for pesticide regulation) found the restriction cumbersome, problematical and inconvenient. While the label restriction was frequently ignored or skirted, it nevertheless gave beekeepers standing before the law when their bees were killed by illegal pesticide use. Even under these conditions of unenthusiastic and even hostile "enforcement", commercial beekeepers in many parts of the country had over 30% of their colonies killed or damaged by pesticides. The current PR Notice would propose sweeping changes to not only the wording but the intent of bee protection language. New pesticides presented for registration which fail to provide residual bee toxicity data automatically will be assumed to have a toxic period of 24 hours. This will encourage applicants to neglect this detail, and beekeepers will spend years enduring bee kills and uncompensated damages as they attempt to establish their case against new pesticides which may have residual toxicity's of 1 to 2 weeks. In other words the toxicity data will be generated at the expense of the beekeeping industry. It dismisses the issue of drift, which is often the major culprit in bee kills, by simply omitting any reference to it. By this logic, polluters in other arenas would be free to release toxic substances into a waterway and be held harmless for any damage done downstream. The only difference between the two cases is that with agricultural pesticides it isn't a waterway but an airstream which is polluted. Perhaps the worst part of this proposal is its caveat to the chemical industry, which says that an applicator is not responsible for following even the feeble language proposed if they participate in a "formal, state-approved bee protection program". The EPA plans to take no role in the formation, approval or monitoring of the state approved program, despite the clear evidence that it has often been State Departments of Agriculture which are the problem in protecting pollinators. In 1997 AAPCO (the American Association of Pesticide Control Officers), a professional organization to which many state regulatory people belong, formally requested that the EPA make bee protection language ADVISORY. This gives you an idea of the philosophy of many of these states and what protections they might provide given a free hand. The EPA proposed to not only put the foxes back in charge of the chicken coop despite the loss of all these chickens, it proposed to let the foxes make the rules and doesn't even intend to ask what the rules are. Beyond the specific labeling language, the EPA is failing to carry out its basic responsibilities under the law (FIFRA). Ultimately Congress is responsible for the implementation of FIFRA. It assigns this responsibility to EPA, which in turn delegates the authority to another agency, typically a State Department Of Agriculture. It is apparent that the EPA is not only prepared to cave in to the convenience of the chemical industry, but they are willing to sacrifice American beekeeping and violate the law in the bargain. They are either incapable or unwilling to hold their delegees (the states) accountable for administering the law properly, nor are they willing to do so themselves. Beekeepers are urged to familiarize themselves with this issue and contact their Congresspeople immediately. This matter will effect all beekeepers, large or small. The indiscriminate and uncontrolled use of pesticides around bees, which is likely to result from the current posture of the EPA, will result in enormous and costly losses for almost all beekeepers. The EPA must be called to account by Congress and required to follow the law. The current proposal provides little or no protection to honey bees or any other pollinators, after years of input from the beekeeping industry. More detailed information on the PR can be obtained at http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/ The comment period ends Jan 22, 2001. In addition to anything you may have to say to the EPA, you should inform your Congressperson or nothing will change. Note: Tom did not give the exact address of the web page for the document at issue. It is as follows: www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-PEST/2000/November/Day-22/p29815.htm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> HOW TO MAKE A "PUBLIC COMMENT" To comment via e-mail: 1) Send your comments to opp-docket@epa.gov 2) Put "OPP-00684" in the subject line, to make it easy for federal clerks to route your comment correctly. 3) They can handle plain text or Wordperfect 6.1 format. (When in doubt, plain text in the body of the e-mail works best. Attachments can be a pain.) 4) Recall that your comments will likely be used to evaluate your credibility, so don't get too wild. To comment via postal mail, use the following address: Public Information and Records Integrity Branch (PIRIB) Information Resources and Services Division (7502C), Office of Pesticide Programs (OPP) Environmental Protection Agency 1200 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington, DC 20460. ...and the same considerations listed in (2) through (4) above apply. The EPA also has suggestions on how to make public comment, as follows: What Should I Consider as I Prepare My Comments for EPA? You may find the following suggestions helpful for preparing your comments: 1. Explain your views as clearly as possible. 2. Describe any assumptions that you used. 3. Provide copies of any technical information and/or data you used that support your views. 4. If you estimate potential burden or costs, explain how you arrived at the estimate that you provide. 5. Provide specific examples to illustrate your concerns. 6. Offer alternative ways to improve the notice or collection activity. 7. Make sure to submit your comments by the deadline in this notice. 8. To ensure proper receipt by EPA, be sure to identify the docket control number assigned to this action in the subject line on the first page of your response. You may also provide the name, date, and Federal Register citation. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> THE EPA QUESTIONS, ASKED IN THE TEXT OF THEIR REQUEST FOR COMMENTS Even though the entire subject of weakening the "label law" is an issue in itself, one may wish to address the questions asked by the EPA. Here they are, quoted from the "draft notice": Commenters are free to raise any issue, but the following questions are of particular interest to the Agency, and comments on them are invited. 1. Should the precautionary labeling language in the new policy allow for an exception from bee precautions for wide-area public health spray programs? In a number of communications to the Agency, officials involved in public health programs have noted that strict interpretation of the current bee precautionary labeling could prevent effective wide-area pest control in an emergency situation. The Agency's proposed new labeling language could also be very restrictive of wide-area spraying, for example, if a state had no bee protection program, or could not operate the program during an emergency. The suggestion has been made that the label language include a clause to the effect that precautions apply ``...except when applications are made to prevent or control a declared public health threat.'' The Agency requests comment on whether such an exception on the label is necessary or appropriate, and if it is appropriate, what authority could invoke the exception. Should an exception be applicable to treatments intended to prevent possible disease outbreaks, or limited to significant emergencies like the aftermath of flooding or a proven outbreak of human or animal disease? 2. Should the new policy described in the PR Notice allow a 24 hour period of toxicity statement on labels in the absence of data as a permanent option, or only temporarily until registrants submit residual toxicity data? 3. From the commenter's perspective as a pesticide user, beekeeper, state regulator, or other interested party, would a specific time period of toxicity to bees on the label be more or less useful than the current policy which includes a label prohibition on applications while bees are visiting the treatment area? 4. Is the label condition that pesticides can be applied if the user participates in a state bee protection program likely to encourage bee-protection efforts? From the commenter's perspective, is such a condition more or less useful in achieving bee protection that the current label prohibition against application when bees are visiting the treatment area? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> THE COMPLETE TEXT OF THE NOTICE [Federal Register: November 22, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 226)] [Notices] [Page 70350-70352] From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov] [DOCID:fr22no00-61] ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY [OPP-00684; FRL-6750-9] Pesticides; Draft Guidance for Pesticide Registrants on Bee Precautionary Labeling AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). ACTION: Notice of availability. SUMMARY: The Agency seeks public comment on a draft Pesticide Registration (PR) Notice entitled ``Guidance for Pesticide Registrants on Bee Precautionary Labeling.'' This draft notice provides guidance to registrants and others concerning EPA's policy on bee labeling statements for pesticide products which are toxic to bees, such as honey bees, alfalfa leaf-cutting bees, alkali bees, and other native and non-indigenous pollinating insects that are important to crop production. The purpose of the proposed label changes is to help ensure that pesticide products used outdoors can be used without posing unnecessary risks of bee mortality. EPA believes that these revisions will make the labeling clearer and more easily understood by pesticide users and by regulatory officials who enforce label provisions. DATES: Comments, identified by docket control number OPP-00684, must be received on or before January 22, 2001. ADDRESSES: Comments may be submitted by mail, electronically, or in person. Please follow the detailed instructions for each method as provided in Unit I.C. of the SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION. To ensure proper receipt by EPA, it is imperative that you identify docket control number OPP-00684 in the subject line on the first page of your response. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Jim Roelofs (7506C), Environmental Protection Agency, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW., Washington, DC 20460; telephone number: (703) 308-2964; fax number: (703) 308-1850; e-mail address: roelofs.jim@epa.gov. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: I. General Information A. Does this Action Apply to Me? This action is directed to pesticide registrants, pesticide regulatory officials, beekeepers, pesticide users and to the public in general. Although this action may be of particular interest to those persons who have a specific interest in precautionary labeling to protect bees, the Agency has not attempted to describe all the specific entities that may be affected by this action. If you have any questions regarding the information in this notice, consult the person listed under FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT. B. How Can I Get Additional Information, Including Copies of this Document and Other Related Documents? 1. Electronically. You may obtain electronic copies of this document and the PR Notice from the Office of Pesticide Programs' Home Page at http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/. You can also go directly to the listings from the EPA Internet Home Page at http://www.epa.gov/. To access this document, on the Home Page select ``Laws and Regulations'' ``Regulations and Proposed Rules,'' and then look up the entry for this document under the ``Federal Register-- Environmental Documents.'' You can also go directly to the Federal Register listings at http:// www.access.gpo.gov/sup--docs/. 2. Fax on demand. You may request a faxed copy of the draft PR Notice entitled ``Bee Precautionary Labeling Statements,'' by using a faxphone to call (202) 401-0527 and selecting item PR 2000-6133. You may also follow the automated menu. 3. In person. The Agency has established an official record for this action under docket control number OPP-00684. The official record consists of the documents specifically referenced in this action, any public comments received during an applicable comment period, and other information related to this action, including any information claimed as confidential business information (CBI). This official record includes the documents that are physically located in the docket, as well [[Page 70351]] as the documents that are referenced in those documents. The public version of the official record does not include any information claimed as CBI. The public version of the official record, which includes printed, paper versions of any electronic comments submitted during an applicable comment period, is available for inspection in the Public Information and Records Integrity Branch (PIRIB), Rm. 119, Crystal Mall #2, 1921 Jefferson Davis Highway, Arlington, VA, from 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding legal holidays. The PIRIB telephone number is (703) 305-5805. C. How and to Whom Do I Submit Comments? You may submit comments through the mail, in person, or electronically. To ensure proper receipt by EPA, it is imperative that you identify docket control number OPP-00684 in the subject line on the first page of your response. 1. By mail. Submit your comments to: Public Information and Records Integrity Branch (PIRIB), Information Resources and Services Division (7502C), Office of Pesticide Programs (OPP), Environmental Protection Agency, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20460. 2. In person or by courier. Deliver your comments to: Public Information and Records Integrity Branch (PIRIB), Information Resources and Services Division (7502C), Office of Pesticide Programs (OPP), Environmental Protection Agency, Rm. 119, CM #2, 1921 Jefferson Davis Highway, Arlington, VA. The PIRIB is open from 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding legal holidays. The PIRIB telephone number is (703) 305-5805. 3. Electronically. You may submit your comments electronically by E-mail to: ``opp-docket@epa.gov,'' or you can submit a computer disk as described above. Do not submit any information electronically that you consider to be CBI. Avoid the use of special characters and any form of encryption. Electronic submissions will be accepted in Wordperfect 6.1, Suite 8, or ASCII file format. All comments in electronic form must be identified by docket control number OPP-00684. Electronic comments may also be filed online at many Federal Depository Libraries. D. How Should I Handle CBI That I Want to Submit to the Agency? Do not submit any information electronically that you consider to be CBI. You may claim information that you submit to EPA in response to this document as CBI by marking any part or all of that information as CBI. Information so marked will not be disclosed except in accordance with procedures set forth in 40 CFR part 2. In addition to one complete version of the comment that includes any information claimed as CBI, a copy of the comment that does not contain the information claimed as CBI must be submitted for inclusion in the public version of the official record. Information not marked confidential will be included in the public version of the official record without prior notice. If you have any questions about CBI or the procedures for claiming CBI, please consult the person identified under FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT. E. What Should I Consider as I Prepare My Comments for EPA? You may find the following suggestions helpful for preparing your comments: 1. Explain your views as clearly as possible. 2. Describe any assumptions that you used. 3. Provide copies of any technical information and/or data you used that support your views. 4. If you estimate potential burden or costs, explain how you arrived at the estimate that you provide. 5. Provide specific examples to illustrate your concerns. 6. Offer alternative ways to improve the notice or collection activity. 7. Make sure to submit your comments by the deadline in this notice. 8. To ensure proper receipt by EPA, be sure to identify the docket control number assigned to this action in the subject line on the first page of your response. You may also provide the name, date, and Federal Register citation. II. Background To help determine whether pesticide products used outdoors pose risks of bee mortality, the Agency generally requires acute toxicity data on bees to be submitted with a registration application. See e.g., 40 CFR 158.590(a). Depending on the results of the acute study, EPA may require additional residual toxicity data. EPA pesticide labeling regulations require that ``...pesticides toxic to pollinating insects must bear appropriate label cautions.'' 40 CFR 156.10(h)(2)(ii)(E). In the 1980s, the Agency published a policy which described a set of standard bee precautionary labeling statements it believed appropriate where results from the bee data indicated toxicity. The most recent version of this policy is found in the 1996 Label Review Manual (USEPA, Office of Prevention, Pesticides and Toxic Substances, Label Review Manual, 2nd Ed. (EPA 737-B-96-001) December, 1996). Under the 1980s policy, where a product displayed extended residual toxicity to bees, the label language EPA believed to be appropriate for precautionary purposes stated: ``This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area.'' Controversy has continued for many years among beekeepers, growers, commercial applicators and State regulators about the adequacy of these statements. For example, many beekeepers believe that the labeling statements are not adequately protective, while many growers believe that the labeling statements are overly restrictive and prevent them from managing pests adequately during the bloom period. State regulators believe that the labeling statements need to be clarified regarding the obligations of applicators with respect to bees. III. Summary of the Draft PR Notice A. What Guidance Does the PR Notice Provide? The PR Notice states EPA's proposed new policy regarding appropriate standard label language to protect bees. This new language would include a specific statement about the length of time in hours or days that the residues of the pesticide product remain a toxic threat to bees. This new proposed labeling statement is based on a study of residual toxicity to bees for a specific product submitted to the Agency, or, in the absence of such a study, it states a default period of toxicity of 24 hours. The proposed label language provides two conditions under which pesticide application would be allowed without limitation to the label-stated period of toxic hazard to bees. The first of these conditions is if the pesticide application method is such that bees will not be exposed even if they are visiting the crop. An example of such a method would be soil incorporation, which would not produce pesticide residues on the foliage, blooms or nectar producing parts of plants, so that bees would not be exposed. The other condition under which use is allowed during the period of toxicity to bees, is when the user actively participates in and meets all the applicable [[Page 70352]] requirements of a state-approved bee protection program. The Agency believes that label precautions should be supplemented by additional efforts to protect bees, and that state programs are appropriate to this purpose. EPA does not intend to set specific criteria or approve state bee protection programs. The PR Notice recommends that state pesticide regulatory agencies consider a variety of regulatory and non-regulatory measures to include in bee-protection efforts. EPA believes that state agencies are in the best position to understand the localized crop-pesticide combinations and other factors that pose the greatest risks to bees, and can implement appropriate measures to mitigate those risks under varying local and geographic conditions. B. What Questions/Issues Should You Consider? Commenters are free to raise any issue, but the following questions are of particular interest to the Agency, and comments on them are invited. 1. Should the precautionary labeling language in the new policy allow for an exception from bee precautions for wide-area public health spray programs? In a number of communications to the Agency, officials involved in public health programs have noted that strict interpretation of the current bee precautionary labeling could prevent effective wide-area pest control in an emergency situation. The Agency's proposed new labeling language could also be very restrictive of wide-area spraying, for example, if a state had no bee protection program, or could not operate the program during an emergency. The suggestion has been made that the label language include a clause to the effect that precautions apply ``...except when applications are made to prevent or control a declared public health threat.'' The Agency requests comment on whether such an exception on the label is necessary or appropriate, and if it is appropriate, what authority could invoke the exception. Should an exception be applicable to treatments intended to prevent possible disease outbreaks, or limited to significant emergencies like the aftermath of flooding or a proven outbreak of human or animal disease? 2. Should the new policy described in the PR Notice allow a 24 hour period of toxicity statement on labels in the absence of data as a permanent option, or only temporarily until registrants submit residual toxicity data? 3. From the commenter's perspective as a pesticide user, bee keeper, state regulator, or other interested party, would a specific time period of toxicity to bees on the label be more or less useful than the current policy which includes a label prohibition on applications while bees are visiting the treatment area? 4. Is the label condition that pesticides can be applied if the user participates in a state bee protection program likely to encourage bee-protection efforts? From the commenter's perspective, is such a condition more or less useful in achieving bee protection that the current label prohibition against application when bees are visiting the treatment area? C. What is the Scope of this PR Notice? The draft PR Notice discussed in this notice is intended to provide guidance to pesticide registrants, EPA personnel, state regulatory personnel, and to the public. As a guidance document, this policy is not binding on either EPA or any outside parties, and EPA may depart from the guidance where circumstances warrant and without prior notice. Registrants and applicants may propose alternatives to the recommended labeling statements described in the Notice and the Agency will assess them for appropriateness on a case-by-case basis. If a product does not meet the requirements of 40 CFR Part 156, the Agency may find the product to be misbranded. As stated above, the Agency believes that the statements outlined in the Notice should reduce the potential for adverse effects to the environment and are ``appropriate'' within the meaning of 40 CFR 156.10(h)(2)(ii)(E). EPA will make available revised guidance after consideration of public comment. Public comment is not being solicited for the purpose of converting this guidance document into a binding rule. EPA will not be codifying this policy in the Code of Federal Regulations. EPA is soliciting public comment so that it can make fully informed decisions regarding the content of this guidance. The revised guidance will not be an unalterable document. Once a revised guidance document is issued, EPA will continue to treat it as guidance. Accordingly, on a case-by-case basis EPA will decide whether it is appropriate to depart from the guidance or to modify the overall approach in the guidance. List of Subjects Environmental protection, Administrative practice and procedure, Agricultural commodities, Pesticides and pests. Dated: November 9, 2000. Marcia Mulkey, Director, Office of Pesticide Programs [FR Doc. 00-29815 Filed 11-21-00; 8:45 am] BILLING CODE 6560-50-S Article 28224 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Kevin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Vinegar as a Varroa control Lines: 6 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:42:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.184.197.211 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 978745373 161.184.197.211 (Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:42:53 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:42:53 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28224 I've heard rumors about ppls in Alberta, Canada using vinegar, applied with a vaporizer to treat for varroa. At first I thought that they must be talking about FG mineral oil but was informed again that it was indeed vinegar. This is news to me. Anyone else heard about this? Article 28225 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Vinegar as a Varroa control Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:59:47 -0600 Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaDfU/Jf8uBV4FTp3qoPf+9DjuMhxIpHiKUHMbvq3wmTdSQvjLFzb5D X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jan 2001 02:00:47 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28225 in article xKu56.83933$uK6.6509929@news1.telusplanet.net, Kevin at annkev@telusplanet.net wrote on 1/5/01 7:42 PM: > I've heard rumors about ppls in Alberta, Canada using vinegar, applied with > a vaporizer to treat for varroa. At first I thought that they must be > talking about FG mineral oil but was informed again that it was indeed > vinegar. This is news to me. Anyone else heard about this? Yes, but it's not good news. The beekeeper bought the vinegar vaporizer but found it to be ineffective and ended up destroying the unit! Haven't personally used it so I can't speak from experience. -Barry Article 28226 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A570FD2.F3BED106@suscom-maine.net> From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A525434.5CFCB752@suscom-maine.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 07:26:27 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 07:30:10 -0500 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28226 In fact, the regs could be applied to honeybees and would be very similar to that which is currently in use for a variety of treatments. All you need is to show the problem- mites or disease- then treat and take that hive out of production for a specific period. Even the veggie growers have more freedom than organic beekeepers. Totally irrational. And the problem I see with this is that you can violate the rules for organic beekeeping and never be caught. Enforcement will be non-existant and only those who play by the rules will suffer. How? Set up your hives in a "clean" area and sell all of your honey, no matter where the Apiary, as organic. So what that the "organic" hives are only producing 25lbs per hive. On paper they are producing 300lbs per hive and the non-organic are only producing 25. And testing the honey will not pick up anything, no matter how sensitive the test, if the beekeeper follows the current non-organic rules. Bill T George Styer wrote: > > I am glad to see this brought up in the debate. Indeed, if my memory of the > proposed USDA standard serves, you MUST treat the animal (and remove it from > production). If your livestock is suffering because of your failure to treat > them, you risk losing your certification. > > -- > Geo > Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley > "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" > gstyLer@att.net > To respond via email, get the "L" out of there > > "Bill Truesdell" wrote in message > news:3A525434.5CFCB752@suscom-maine.net... > >You can treat farm animals with a > > variety of medicines and anti-biotics to preserve the life of the animal, > > because horses, cows and fowl are expensive and they will still be > > considered organically grown. Article 28227 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <20010104060644.04403.00001002@ng-ft1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Help. I've got queen cells. Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 13:12:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 978786768 24.13.215.128 (Sat, 06 Jan 2001 05:12:48 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 05:12:48 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28227 Well to be honest. Overwintering bees in an observation hive isn't the best of ideas...Are you sure they are queen cells? The queens DO have to be rasied from new eggs. Is your queen still laying? If they are queen cell there is little yuou can do unless you get a very mild day to do some clean up. Scot Mc Pherson LKLarson1 wrote in message news:20010104060644.04403.00001002@ng-ft1.aol.com... > I've got several queen cells (very little other larva and no drones, of course) > in my observation hive. I still have a queen, too. Anybody know what's > going on here? > When these virgin queens hatch, if they old queen doesn't get them, how on > earth can they get mated this time of year? Will they wait? I just noticed > these queen cells, all nicely sealed up, so I only have a few days and > something is going to happen, I suspect......My how these little ones are > always full of surprises. > > Buzzylee > > ksinIIf the queens hatchaveIMy observa Article 28228 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Help. I've got queen cells. Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 14:50:58 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 34 Message-ID: <937bch$lu6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20010104060644.04403.00001002@ng-ft1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Jan 06 14:50:58 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x61.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28228 In article <20010104060644.04403.00001002@ng-ft1.aol.com>, lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) wrote: > I've got several queen cells (very little other larva and no drones, of course) > in my observation hive. I still have a queen, too. Anybody know what's > going on here? > When these virgin queens hatch, if they old queen doesn't get them, how on > earth can they get mated this time of year? Will they wait? I just noticed > these queen cells, all nicely sealed up, so I only have a few days and > something is going to happen, I suspect......My how these little ones are > always full of surprises. > > Buzzylee > > ksinIIf the queens hatchaveIMy observa > Why do anything?An observation hive is best looked on as an expendable unit at any time,that may need the bees replaced.Why not let nature take its course and consider it a learning experience? Supersedure in Jan. is a bit odd so why not watch and see what happens.They may realize the futility and tear the cells down,or a virgin may emerge and become a drone layer.It would be interesting to watch how the bees treat the old and new queen. -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28229 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 09:27:32 -0600 Lines: 149 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZvOPLHEdienv9MaehUcSZOWzL0e+vdW5KqnnVC7RP7QP6v/S+5q0LN X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jan 2001 15:28:33 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28229 Allen Dick wrote: >> Recently I am disturbed to see we are being exposed to revisionist history >> by people who are misinterpreting what they read and evangelizing their >> 'revolutionary' findings. >> >> I have checked their work and it is obvious to any careful reader that they >> are twisting words and injecting wishful thinking into what they read. I >> have real problems understanding why these fallacious claims have caught >> the imagination of so many and are now thought to be 'fact'. Murray McGregor wrote: > One of the tests a new idea has to undergo is scrutiny by the peer group > of the person(s) advancing it. It seems that some of those following > this particular avenue have a problem with that. They do not seem to be > able to stand up in a calm and rational way to the heat put on them by > the likes of Allen and others, so they go off on their own and dominate > things in other mediums where there is more likely to be a predominance > of non hostile, even sycophantic, listeners. All this will do is condemn > it to being seen as a 'crank' remedy for longer than should be the case > in mainstream bee work, IF it is any good at all. If it is wrong, then > mainstream scrutiny will show it up for what it is much earlier and save > some people from ruin. Murray McGregor wrote: > The hypersensitivity bit I touched on before has cropped up again in > Barry's reply. It drips with acid, yet I cannot understand why. This > 'apparent breakthrough' SHOULD be scrutinised, and very closely indeed, > because there is some odd portrayal of success going on here. If I quoted all the polemic words these two have blessed us with I'd be including pretty much their whole posts. I have no idea what spurred Allen and Murray to go on the attack about small cell size. A lot of us who are interested in this subject have started our own discussion group so as not to be a thorn to those who are not interested and now we get criticized for that. Gee, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's no secret that Allen has his own theory about cell size. This issue was discussed on BEE-L not too long ago but really never thoroughly got discussed partly due to Allen's inability to discuss openly without getting into name calling (referring to those who are interested in the Lusby's work as "the cult" inferring we are mindless followers). I give Allen credit for "usually" having well written, thoughtful and engaging messages. Unfortunately these last few posts to this newsgroup have fallen far short of that standard. To scrutinize (not criticize) an idea is one thing, and I welcome it and feel it is needed, but it has to be done in a considerate fashion for it to be of any value. I realize now that I gave into my better judgement and am sorry that I replied to any of Allen's and Murray's posts. A weakness of mine. When fire is returned with fire, the original flame thrower doesn't understand why there is "hostility" from his "challenging" and " joking a bit". I'm not amused by this style of joking. I guess Allen, Murray and I are more alike in one area as I won't sit by silent when these types of emails get posted. If you don't like the return fire then one shouldn't start throwing it in the first place. For the record, I'm including below a lot of _my_ comments on the discussion of small cell that took place on BEE-L. I feel the words will speak for them self. I have not changed my position. I continue to do real live tests of the 4.9 cell size with real live bees as opposed to just talking theory. The train keeps moving forward and unless something changes from past experiences, it will keep picking up speed. If it's all "fallacious claims" then there most certainly will be a crash happening around the world. If you ever want to discuss this topic further in a calm fashion you're welcome to on the Biological Beekeeping List where character assassinations won't happen. -Barry ---- BEE-L (Wed, 30 Aug 2000) My next question: who is stepping forward in the scientific community doing the "proper controlled observations and experiments"? People can continue to denounce the significance of the cell size in regards to the effects on the mites and point to the fact that there are "no" studies to prove it but that says little, if no one will take existing information, written and field (as in real live bees in hives that their caretakers have so often asked to be inspected and tested for proof), and give us some hardcore scientific studies!! If this cell size debate is so off the wall, it should be a snap for our researchers to gather enough evidence to say so in proper scientific papers. It looks to me like the Lusby's have done just about everything they can do on their end to be open to all about what is working for them. Now it should be the bee science community to take it to the next level. All I hear is silence. I'll continue to wait. BEE-L (Fri, 1 Sep 2000) This technique of keeping bees on 4.9mm cells is working as the Lusby's are living proof. You can debate why it's working but not the fact that "it" is working and has been for quite a few years with their production growing every year. I find it to be such a common practice among certain people on this list to always want to find the fault with something or someone instead of whatever good can be found. The FACT is that the Lusby's themselves state right in the article that all can read, if only they would do it, I quote: "This shows breeding is not all the solution. We figure comb is 1/3, diet is 1/3 and breeding is 1/3. Comb must be put in by half (5) to full boxes to work." http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/abjdec1997.htm I get the feeling that most people think all you need to do is throw a bunch of 4.9 foundation in their hives and the mites will disappear. No where in all the info that is posted about the Lusby's work is a claim made that 4.9 cell size will rid a hive of mites, no where. Yet a lot of people are using this assumption in their reasoning. Broad statements are made where finer details need to be understood. The mites are still in their hives but at extremely low levels. They also feel that by having their bees on a natural size that has no chemical residues in the wax or honey, (go and read the literature for their definition of natural) gives the bee a better standing to deal with secondary diseases. Granted, this is not a "controlled" study, but enough there to warrant a scientific research with further studies on small cell size. Let's start putting our energy into soliciting Dadant to produce 4.9 foundation and our scientists (logically this should be Dr Erickson) to pick up the research on this again. As someone else wrote, let's put up or shut up. BEE-L (Fri, 1 Sep 2000) I have talked with the Lusby's about their work and many times they have pointed out to me that they are beekeepers that work the field and know the field methodology. They are able to make it work in the field and are more than happy to show anyone how it's done. They have put forth their own ideas and reasons as to *why* it works, but it is not up to them to prove it in the lab. Their simple approach to the lab is, "you tell us why it works." They shouldn't have to do both. So in our discussion about their ideas, remember, they have done their part to make it work in the field. It's the lab side that is weak. They are "pleading" (my word) to have their work scrutinized and tested by the labs. BEE-L (Mon, 11 Sep 2000) Again, we are still talking average. And within the average size is a range that the bee will use. 2.11 inches to 1.86 inches. That's 5.36 mm to 4.72 mm. 4.9 is in this natural (average) range, is it not? What the Lusby's have done by using the 4.9 cell size is to help the bees to use one of their smaller natural sizes to be able to deal with the mite on their own without the use of any chemicals. All the numbers are out there for all to read and I don't think I'm off base in my reading of these articles. I know you think the same about your interpretation. We should realize, though, that what you and I are talking about is just theory. A matter of opinion and interpretation. What can't be overlooked is reality. The Lusby's are *in* reality, but have offered their theory as to how it works. We now have the tool (4.9 foundation) to test this theory. One can stay in theory and debate indefinitely, or, pick up some 4.9 foundation and see what reality is. People will believe reality over theory. Article 28230 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail From: "Ruary Rudd" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <20001224130558.19840.00005141@ng-ft1.news.cs.com> <20001224134440.20141.00003902@ng-mg1.aol.com> Subject: Re: emergancy winter feeding Lines: 21 Organization: Westgate, waterville X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:12:27 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.134.157.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eircom.net X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 978797578 159.134.157.86 (Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:12:58 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:12:58 BST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28230 HarrisonRW wrote in message news:20001224134440.20141.00003902@ng-mg1.aol.com... > For emergency feeding make a block of bee candy by taking 5 lbs of sugar to one > pound of water (one pint) and boil it to a temp of 234 degrees F. Pour it into > a shallow mold (along the lines of a pie plate) let harden and then place it > over the cluster. You can always remember this formula if you can remember > 12345. > Ralph Harrison > Western CT Beekeepers Association After I have boiled the syrup to 234 degrees I cool it rapidly (until it just starts going white) before pouring it into a mould, the result is softer and more easily assimilated. Ruary Rudd Article 28231 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera From: allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/03.11.14 Lines: 183 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:28:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.186 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 978802132 198.161.229.186 (Sat, 06 Jan 2001 10:28:52 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 10:28:52 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28231 >I have no idea what spurred >Allen and Murray to go on the attack about small cell size. Speaking only for myself, I am always concerned when misinformation is being presented as fact, and I try to point out the truth or counsel caution. That was what began both these debates. I frankly don't have much time to spend on this matter, and I think it has gotten away out of hand. I was hoping you had decided to give it a rest, since both sides have stated their case. Nonetheless I will try to respond to your rather wide-ranging post and then quit. Life is too short and the truth will eventually out, with or without my participation. I'm not important. These threads have gotten confused, so excuse me if I quote from both. >Perhaps you would show us exactly the tests you did Hopefully you haven't forgotten the reading and corresponding you and I did only last spring, since we started out on it together and collaborated initially. In fact, It was I who encouraged you to look into this whole question in the first place when everyone was ignoring Dee's garbled and rambling emails. I corresponded with Dee a bit, directly, and then later though you. I think she liked you better, possibly for for lacking that critical faculty you were just complimenting me on, and decided she did not want to talk to me at all, since it seems I asked too many hard questions and wasn't quite able to understand her answers. At that time, I was intrigued by their story and even set up a list called 4dot9@egroups.com for her and offered to turn it over to her (it still exists and sits unused) but she would not participate. I have all that correspondence in my files. >and show us the results. The results of my studies are still on the same web pages I worked on in the spring with your co-operation at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/CellCount.htm , and the progress of my thoughts is in my public diary at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/diary/ >I'd be very interested to see how they compare with mine. I am starting to worry about your memory, Barry. You have been to my pages and maybe even linked to them at one time when we were researching this together less than a year ago. >You have done tests on small cell size haven't you? I sincerely hope you are not getting Alzheimers. I'll tell you again what you should already know well, and I have stated publicly, and then I am going to have to give up. I spent quite a bit of time on looking into Lusby's theories and decided the theory behind it is not credible at all. If there is anything to the whole idea -- and who knows? There could well be -- it is not because the theory and the background justification makes any scientific or historical sense to me. Inasmuch as I am *not* a researcher (even though we co-operate in a number of sizable and fairly significant experiments in our operation) and my research associates did not seem to be in a rush to test this properly at present, I am leaving it to others and waiting to read a sufficient number of peer-reviewed studies to get a better understanding. I have read a few studies that brushed up against this subject, but, as I noted on BEE-L, they raise as many questions as they answer. When I say I am not a researcher, I should explain that although I have been to university, I have studied science, I have done experiments, I do read research papers, all that experience has does not make me able to do good science. There are many subtle factors invloved, and although I feel free to criticize -- much as a fan in the stands feels free to criticize a hockey player -- I do not feel qualified to do the work without experienced professionals managing. My full comments and analyses are in the BEE-L logs at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L If you want to refresh your memory, just search using my email as author. Something that did impress me in all that reading when I first examined Lusby's claims was that Root, in making his early foundation mills initially made 5.1mm cells. He soon changed to 5.2mm, a size he stuck with for a long time, apparently because 5.1 had turned out to be too small. Therefore the one thing I did decide as a result of all that work -- just as AI Root did a century ago -- is that the bees I use (and most North American and European beekeepers use) naturally prefer cells around 5.2mm. Therefore foundation in the 5.2 to 5.3mm range seems consistent with their tastes. Since that is the size I have mostly been using, that is what I plan to stick to until someone publishes sevearl peer-reviewed studies that convince me differently. FWIW, I do strongly encourage people to examine the effects of cell size. I just really don't recommend anyone believe the theory -- particularly the 'historical' part. > How did your bees fare? Fine AFAIK. I have a thousand more hives than I did last fall, including the 45 that are in controlled experiments conducted by a trained researcher. How are yours? >A lot of us >who are interested in this subject have started our own discussion group >so as not to be a thorn to those who are not interested and now we get >criticized for that. I don't know where you get the idea that I am criticizing you for that, after all I started one for the same purpose too, 4dot9@egroups.com . I was just ahead of my time -- or ahead of the leader. Whatever. >It's no secret that Allen has his own theory about cell size. >This issue was discussed on BEE-L not too long ago but really never >thoroughly got discussed partly due to Allen's inability to discuss >openly without getting into name calling (referring to those who are >interested in the Lusby's work as "the cult" inferring we are mindless >followers). Well, are you? It sure looks that way to me. I don't know how else to say it. No one in a cult thinks it is a cult, until after leaving it. On the topic of abuse and personal attacks and cults, I heard a rumour that Dee was driving anyone who did not believe her every word off the Irish Bee List recently with unrestrained personal attacks. True? False? >I give Allen credit for "usually" having well written, thoughtful and >engaging messages. Thanks Barry. You know I am an admirer of your contributions and although we have some differences of opinion, I think you do excellent work. I'm not even sure we are not saying the same things a lot of the time. I just wish you were a bit more critical in your thinking, and I suspect you wish I were a bit more associative in mine. >To scrutinize (not criticize) an >idea is one thing, and I welcome it and feel it is needed, but it has to >be done in a considerate fashion for it to be of any value. I agree entirely, and work very hard to avoid personal abuse. There is a fine line between standing up for something and pushing people around. Unfortunately, people attach themselves strongly to ideas and when those ideas are attacked, or even questioned, they often regard that as a personal insult and think they have suffered a personal attack when, in fact, they have not. >now that I gave into my better judgement and am sorry that I replied to >any of Allen's and Murray's posts. A weakness of mine. When fire is >returned with fire, the original flame thrower doesn't understand why >there is "hostility" from his "challenging" and " joking a bit". I'm not >amused by this style of joking. I guess Allen, Murray and I are more >alike in one area as I won't sit by silent when these types of emails >get posted. If you don't like the return fire then one shouldn't start >throwing it in the first place. Barry, I thought were were grown men having some fun. Sorry if I was wrong. I'm not and have not been angry or upset. I'm amused and entertained. I personally regard this whole small cell thing as an hilarious example of misunderstanding, recruitment and confusion. But I do worry a bit about how gullible people are. >For the record, I'm including below a lot of _my_ comments on the >discussion of small cell that took place on BEE-L. Thanks. I'll paraphrase the only words I have said on the topic that matter: PROVE IT. I have asked *repeatedly* for a concise and readable essay -- with proper quotes -- explaining clearly and unambiguously the historical basis of the belief that European bees were naturally and commonly building cells in the 4.9mm range a century ago before foundation was introduced. All I have *ever* received in return was evasion and pointers to the same old garbled, incomplete badly organised and unconvincing material that I have read when I was first examining this question. Will it be different this time? allen Article 28232 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.249!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The (USA) EPA "Label Law" Is DEAD Unless YOU Save It Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:13:32 -0600 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <935dji0r0d@drn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978815615 9687345 216.167.138.249 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28232 James, thanks for your 'warning.' I guess we'll all do what we can do. However, in these times.. >Now, the EPA is considering removing the "Bee >Precautionary Labeling" What did you expect. C.K. - WASHINGTON, DC -- The nomination of former Senator Spencer Abraham and former Colorado Attorney General Gale Norton to head the departments of Energy and Interior, respectively, is a giant step backwards for environmental protection, the League of Conservation Voters (LCV) concluded today. Bush announced Abraham's nomination today and Norton's last Friday. For the full release, please see: http://lcv.org/presidential/releases.html Article 28233 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.249!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:32:24 -0600 Lines: 103 Message-ID: <3t2f5tk5qer059mlmu4uq75ogekq3t2m76@4ax.com> References: <92i81e$88c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A525434.5CFCB752@suscom-maine.net> <3A570FD2.F3BED106@suscom-maine.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978816752 9747735 216.167.138.249 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28233 Bill Truesdell said: >I see with this is that you can violate the rules for >organic beekeeping and never be caught. Enforcement will be non-existant >and only those who play by the rules will suffer. What makes you think there is 'enforcement' now? Hell, they have these giant 24 hour a day meat packing plants (5000 cows a day) around here 'inspecting' their own meat. I wonder what Upton Sinclair would have thought about that. And you know it's because the poor federal government doesn't have the money to hire more 'inspectors.' I see boxes of produce from Mexico (that's the next thing to go, where your 'food' comes from) claiming it's 'organic.' In Texas if you want to be an 'organic' farmer you get some forms and fill them out and 'apply' for this classification. If someone in the non existent Organic Standards Board of Texas ever comes around and test your soil or examines your 'records' I've never heard of it. Americans arise, learn the facts, get mad. C.K. - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE contacts: Scott Stoermer at (202) 785-8683 x599 or Lisa Wade Raasch at x586 LCV Calls New House Environmental Committee Chairs Out Of Step With Public’s Conservation Concerns WASHINGTON (January 4, 2001) - Probable new environmental committee chairmen are poised to lead environmental policy in the wrong direction, the League of Conservation Voters (LCV) announced today. The new leaders of the 107th Congress’ committees with environmental jurisdiction are among the most anti-environment members of Congress according to their performance on LCV’s National Environmental Scorecard and do not reflect the growing public desire for stronger environmental laws. With an average environmental score for the 106th Congress of seven percent, the new chairmen rank far below the national average for House members (47 percent). Such poor past performance on important conservation and public health protection issues leaves little room for optimism that environmental progress will be made in these committees. "The American public has clearly signaled its desire for stronger, better enforced environmental laws - not weaker ones," said Deb Callahan, LCV president. "We learned valuable lessons from the 2000 congressional elections: smart environmental policy makes smart local politics and bad environmental policy can lead to bad news on election day. Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike benefit from cleaner air, safer water, and open spaces, which could be at risk with the election of these new chairmen." The probable chairmen of key committees and appropriations subcommittees are: Jim Hansen (R-Utah) House Resources Committee 106th Congress LCV score: 10% Lifetime LCV score: 9% Billy Tauzin (R-La.) House Energy and Commerce Committee 106th Congress LCV score: 7% Lifetime LCV score: 21% Don Young (R-Alaska) House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee 106th Congress LCV score: 7% Lifetime LCV score: 10% Joe Skeen (R-N.M.) House Interior Appropriations Subcommittee 106th Congress LCV score: 7% Lifetime LCV score: 9% Sonny Callahan (R-Ala.) House Energy and Water Appropriations Subcommittee 106th Congress LCV score: 3% Lifetime LCV score: 7% Callahan added, "Hostile anti-environmental legislation during the last Congress met with opposition from environmentalists, the public, and the Administration. With the president's veto threat now questionable and a closely divided Congress, the environmental community will have to be even more vigilant in its efforts to hold these committee chairmen and the rest of Congress accountable to the public for their environmental actions." Returning chairmen of House panels with environmental jurisdiction include Larry Combest (R-TX) at the Agriculture Committee (106th Congress LCV score: 7 percent) and James Walsh (R-N.Y.) at the VA-HUD Appropriations Subcommittee (106th Congress LCV score: 37 percent). The League of Conservation Voters (LCV) is the political voice of the national environmental and conservation community. LCV is the only national organization working full-time to hold members of Congress accountable for their environmental votes. For each session of Congress, LCV produces the National Environmental Scorecard that assigns a percentage score to each representative and senator based on their votes on the year's key environmental measures. Article 28234 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pool1-1.internode.NET!not-for-mail From: "Allen Dick" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:04:14 -0700 Lines: 31 Message-ID: <938psp$9l05l$1@ID-58605.news.dfncis.de> References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool1-1.internode.net (198.161.229.177) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978840286 10125493 198.161.229.177 (16 [58605]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28234 > I see he is also giving mineral oil another plug, a thing which happened > to get a lot of attention a while back. Now, I've asked it before, but > what ever did happen to Elroy, whose faith in mineral oil alone was > going to have him at 2000 hives by the year 2000. I heard off list from > someone who said he had lost all or most of his bees, but with what > authority they were speaking I do not know. In all fairness, mineral oil and other oils do work. The problem is to get an application method that is cost effective, works reliably, and does not kill bees. Like formic, there is some variability in efficacy from treatment to treatment, and bees can be affected if the dose is a little high. Dr Pedro has always been sincere and open, and I have always defended him, since people were quite nasty to him. I used to correspond with him often. He is a man of strong and honest feelings. When we met at his seminar in at the AFB meeting Virginia several years back, I remember being greeted with a huge hug. He is getting older now and has had some health problems, but keeps working at his solution. I suggested some year back that I had heard of California beekeepers using foggers, and I believe he also tested this method. How it worked out, I cannot say, since I have lost touch with him. I've thought of visiting him again, but don't get down that way often, even though my son lives a few hundred miles north of him. Perhaps Barry has more up-to-date news, since I think he has been in contact more recently. We both have some of Dr. Pedro's material on our web sites, but mine is very old. allen Article 28235 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:55:18 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <20001230085040.05862.00000559@ng-cu1.aol.com> <92lbjn$5l2$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <970t4toa9gnf1madq9jpv8ioaq7iqob9ts@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978864955 nnrp-14:14669 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 135 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28235 In article , Barry Birkey writes >If I quoted all the polemic words these two have blessed us with I'd be >including pretty much their whole posts. I have no idea what spurred Allen >and Murray to go on the attack about small cell size. I don't know quite what you mean about polemic, because the things I wrote about the success level, and the genetics thing, were taken from writings in newsgroups and chatrooms of Dee Lusby herself. She is the one making the big noise here, and these conflicting statements about genetics, and her remarkably honest assessment of the low level of full colonies, and their productivity came from her own writings. How could I know anything about her unit that she did not tell me, either in person or through newsgroups. Answer is I dont know anything more than that. However, Ms. Lusby seems to think she can tell us in Scotland all about the genetics of our bees, how we should be doing it, and if we do not do what she says we will be sorry, all this in a climate and forage pattern, and bees, very different from what she could possibly understand, at least no better than I know Arizona. This was in an actual conversation in the UK chatroom a few weeks ago. Myself and an exceptionally experienced beekeeper from the south of England tried to discuss the issue with her rationally and just got lectured. I happen to think there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye, and I do not personally believe that cell size is, within reason, all that important. But then I am just a seat of the pants beekeeper who does things that seem to work for me. They wont necessarily work for the guy down the road, far less on another continent. I am not a researcher, and do not do in depth studies, but then I am not making any great assertions either, only saying that my interpretation of the results said to be success are different. I do not like, however, asking a pertinent question, then getting a lecture back which does not address my point and sharply questions me to produce figures to justify my 'dissenting' position. To that ATTITUDE I am definitely hostile. >A lot of us who are >interested in this subject have started our own discussion group so as not >to be a thorn to those who are not interested and now we get criticized for >that. Gee, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. My only problem with that is taking it away out of mainstream arenas. IF it is all it is cracked up to be then you will get more influential advocates by keeping it on Bee-L or this group, preferably both, and people like Allen are nothing if not pragmatic and will adopt a winner just as soon as it is seen to be winning. If it does not work then it needs to be shown as such, and the scrutiny of practical people will highlight this. Yes there is a lot of boredom out there with this issue, but if someone does not wish to read it they don't have to. There are also a lot of people fascinated by it, and properly presented it can be an interesting read. > >To scrutinize (not criticize) an idea is >one thing, and I welcome it and feel it is needed, but it has to be done in >a considerate fashion for it to be of any value. I realize now that I gave >into my better judgement and am sorry that I replied to any of Allen's and >Murray's posts. A weakness of mine. Why do you think it a weakness. As we are obviously not in agreement on this issue there is nothing wrong with having a frank exchange on the subject. >I'm not amused by this style of joking. I'm not the joking type on an issue as important as this. I do not happen to share your views, and it is the right of both of us to differ, and to say so. I am worried about this issue because, with it being so radical, if it does not work, a lot of people will suffer hugely. Even if it does work it would still destroy many commercial enterprises trying to change over (mine included). For the survival of the bee industry as we know it there HAS to be a less painful solution. >If it's all "fallacious claims" >then there most certainly will be a crash happening around the world. I think this might be a lot further away than you think. If you are easily alarmed then it is tomorrow, but although the main problem, resistant varroa, is with YOU (not us) now , there are many avenues to explore before we practically crucify our bees with this kind of shakedown routine (note please this refers to OUR bees in OUR environment, despite being told I was a fool and just plain wrong by Ms. Lusby) Quote Dee Lusby on the UK chatroom:- "You are foolish my friend! You WILL learn although it might take time. You have to go this way or quite soon you will have no bees." (She went on to put a relatively short time scale on this but I did not save that bit. I think it was five years.) I reckon this is drivel. If we are to be left with only shakedown and small cells as varroa control, I doubt, in Scotland at least, that it will happen in my lifetime, which I HOPE will be at least another 30 years. A huge number of developments are likely to rise, and fall, in this period, but for sure something will appear which helps. Although the term 'fallacious claims' is not my writing, I am sure it does not just relate to the method itself. It relates in part to the use of scare tactics to gain adherants, and in particular the use of language in describing treatments such as Apistan. You'd think we were about to poison the world, and perhaps she genuinely think so thinks so. But she also thinks, and writes, a lot of strange things. >If you >ever want to discuss this topic further in a calm fashion you're welcome to >on the Biological Beekeeping List where character assassinations won't >happen. Sorry, but if Ms Lusby is there then I cannot see how that will be unless you do not have any sceptical posts. She actually flamed James Kilty (an educated and highly informed beekeeper) on the IB List recently for questioning some point she made. A number of people actually left that list because of her activities (myself included) and are only drifting back now after the list owner quietened her down a bit (apparently, I just heard that from another subscriber). I cannot speak for anyone else, but I only became hostile to the way this is being presented (note:- not the concept itself!) when I tried to ask questions and got a lot of arrogant sounding nonsense back telling me 'while you are so green you could not possibly understand it all', and referring me to a whole lot of reading, which proved to be a mix of scientific, pseudo scientific, and ancient material (some of which seemed dubious), all feeding off themselves for proofs. Now, whilst this is an animated little exchange going on here, I do not see how relevant it is to the original query about A.m.m. I suggest that we look to continue it off the newsgroup in an attempt to resolve or at least understand, our differences before we start to look like a couple of old dinosaurs indulging ourselves on everyones screens (probably to their great boredom). Kind (sincerely) regards Murray -- Murray McGregor Article 28236 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnitebee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: pinK pages 2001 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:55:09 -0500 Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.208.64.162 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.208.64.162 Message-ID: <3a58743b_2@news.cybertours.com> X-Trace: 7 Jan 2001 08:50:51 -0500, 64.208.64.162 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.98.63.6 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.cybertours.com!64.208.64.162 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28236 Greetings! The January 2001 Pink Pages are now available for viewing: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/articles.html -- Herb/Norma Bee Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://www.stonycritters.com Article 28237 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Tinkering Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:23:53 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.160 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jan 07 15:23:53 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x57.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.160 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28237 There seems to be a tendency among beekeepers to get an idea or hear of something new ,then run with it on too large a scale.I thought it was just me till I read C.C.Millers 50 Years Among The Bees.We all have to try new things or we get left behind,but some things are just too expensive or too shaky to commit to without some small scale trials first under your own conditions.Examples:small cell foundation,screened bottoms,FGMO,essential oils and other exotic remedies,and strains of bees for which inflated claims are made(my favorite in the BS category), also expensive ventilation systems.There may or may not be merit in these things but its best not to get too excited until you see for yourself. Mike "rule 1 of guerrilla warfare:never try to defend an indefensable position" Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28238 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A58CD08.11E3A1AB@gte.net> From: Chad Howell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {GTE Internetworking} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: january feeding Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 X-Trace: /whjskj4Z0kzletbg+qjdJeCI+S3iXeNCZD9qD7qeorc1VKp2lPTWuGBWYcFh2wbwZOefUPtk8kL!34knkda6F8WJj3Ju8BFFm0EixnLWGFV+bQ4JqTQi8vVBVH+/zdsycWhBkhk= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:08:55 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:08:55 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28238 My question is regarding winter feeding of bees.I live in northern Indiana. I checked my 4 hives today and found them all to be alive but extremely low on food stores. The weather here has been quite cold, highs in the 20's and lows averaging in the low 10's. I feel that I took off too much honey in the early fall. Today it was about 40 so I made up some candy and fed it to my bees. The girls (Buckfast) were quite happy. My question is Can a person feed sugar syrup this early in the season? My plan is to cut a hole in the corner for the feeder thus still allowing the center hole to stay open for ventilation. My next question, how heavy of a syrup -1:1 or 2:1. Article 28239 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 38 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: rsbrenchley@aol.com (RSBrenchley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 07 Jan 2001 21:44:22 GMT References: Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Message-ID: <20010107164422.09897.00000332@ng-fr1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28239 I've come across the American habit of running down A. m. m. as well. I'm British, never been there, so I can't explain it, except that I've seen it said somewhere (sorry, can't find the source) that the American black bee is 'similar' (I'm sure that was the term used) to the German Heath Bee, described by EB Wedmore (A Manual of Beekeeping, BBNO, 1947, reprinted 1988) as being 'a much less desirable race, being bad swarmers, poor house cleaners and disease resisters, running badly under manipulation, great drone breeders and inclined to fall off the combs, but gathering late and wintering well, and producing white cappings.' If the American black bees were really that bad, I can see why nobody wanted them! On the British black bee, Wedmore says: 'Altough much less prolific than the more generally favoured races, it made up for this by increased longevity and would gather more honey, especially in a bad year, than larger stocks of more prolific races. It failed, however, to withstand diseases, such as fould brood and acarine, was a poor house cleaner and defender and not so quiet under manipulation as the imported bees, but its comb capping was perfect'. The bit about its having failed to withstand acarine (tracheal mite) is incorrect; he goes on to say that 'there are many bees at least approximationg to the original to be found still, especially in Scotland, and crossed strains are common.' Some faulty, but unfortunatly influential, research, appeared to indicate that the native bee had been effectively exterminated by acarine in the 1920's; it is still with us, and predominates in highland areas where its ability to fly in poor conditions gives it a decided edge over the imported Italians. My own bees are hybrids with a number of A. m. m. characteristics, unfortunately they are very bad-tempered, and I'm planning to replace them with true A. m. m. later this year when I can obtain queens. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com Article 28240 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 9 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 07 Jan 2001 21:40:32 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Hive robber and others Message-ID: <20010107164032.04937.00000440@ng-ff1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28240 It been rough winter this time of the year, Last week I check on the hive while painting and have notice the honey were dripping inside on the landing board. Why? Also, Today was first time it been warm as 54, The bees from hive # 2 were going in ( the one with drip honey) hive #1 and rob the honey and take it to #2. Fact, I give them #2 a Supper full of honey last fall. Do I need sugar feed to ea. enter hive to feed inside? Thanks. Tim Article 28241 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:44:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978911643 nnrp-14:9553 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 13 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28241 In article <20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com>, LKLarson1 writes >we have some 3000 more more native species of >honeybees here. I wonder if someone has added "honey" to bee in the book you read this in. Most of the world's 20,000 bees are solitary bees like the halactids and the megachiles and you may well have 3000 of the species in your country. AFAIK there are only 4 main species of honeybees in the world (mellifera, carnica, dorsata and florea) and a handful more minor species some not fully differentiated from each other. Eva Crane's "The Hive and the Honeybee" has a very good chapter on this. -- James Kilty Article 28242 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:44:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <92gi20$83j$1@newsfeed.logical.net> <934kp3$duf$1@newsfeed.logical.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978911646 nnrp-14:9553 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 37 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28242 In article <934kp3$duf$1@newsfeed.logical.net>, huestis writes >James, > >Thanks for the info. That's what I was looking for. Glad to help. > I what to compare the >present A.m.m. to the same bee of the 1800's to see what has changed. I >don't keep A.m.m.( have carnica) so I needed someone who keeps them to list >their characteristics. The bias I was talking about in my original post was >that many books on this side of the pond state that A.m.m. is very >aggressive and should be avoided(for beginners). Why? I have no idea. It appears to be crosses in the second generation which are aggressive - they can be vicious. There are many reports of pure A.m.m such as on a Danish island (Loeso) which were docile in the extreme. I have been complimented on the good temper of bees by a MAFF Inspector. I wouldn't say I'd dare to go near them without a veil and most need smoke to be really quiet, but some hardly stir when opened and are now breeders! I did take a risk recently when removing apistan - no veil, no smoke - and was stung by 1 colony out of 15 and had to be very smart in putting it back together and run! The others were fine I am glad to say. If beekeepers in an area agree to select and cull and even pass on queens from good stock to get a good local strain of A.m.m. then they should be docile. The problem arises with imports and the inevitable crossing that then occurs in open mating. Even so, where I keep my bees, beekeepers have apiaries at roughly one mile intervals. So drones must actually be available from hundreds of colonies and I reckon 10-20% at most produce bad tempered stock in spite of imports, especially of Italians, by less than 1 in 20 beekeepers (that I know). Adam was one of those whose claims for A.m.m. were repeated again and again by other writers in spite of their dubious status because of the respect given to him. Bad temper was one of those characteristics he attributed to it. -- James Kilty Article 28243 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: dogglebe Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Purchasing honey in bulk Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:02:25 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <93b3iu$euk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.121.73.254 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jan 08 01:02:25 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98; Compaq) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x61.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 165.121.73.254 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdogglebe2764 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28243 A friend is building a brewery in New York City and will be completely on-line in two or three weeks. He's considering a recipe that will require roughly fifty-gallons (@600 pounds) of honey. Mind you, this would be for only one batch of beer. Depending on how things work out, he might be interested in purchasing more in the future. Can anyone give me an estimated price on a drum of honey, including shipping? Thank you, -- Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28244 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:23:53 -0600 Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVas8iHxA8tE7JrWDre5Mq5ijdGaXwoeGRwlbd2US3oswn9NsfRNl7Qd X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2001 01:24:54 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28244 in article 93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com, loggermike at loggermike@my-deja.com wrote on 1/7/01 9:23 AM: > There seems to be a tendency among beekeepers to get an idea or hear of > something new ,then run with it on too large a scale.I thought it was > just me till I read C.C.Millers 50 Years Among The Bees.We all have to > try new things or we get left behind,but some things are just too > expensive or too shaky to commit to without some small scale trials > first under your own conditions.Examples:small cell foundation,screened > bottoms,FGMO,essential oils and other exotic remedies,and strains of > bees for which inflated claims are made(my favorite in the BS category), > also expensive ventilation systems.There may or may not be merit in > these things but its best not to get too excited until you see for > yourself. > Mike Hello Mike - I'm very glad to read your comments. I wholeheartedly agree with you. In fact, this is what I've tried to get across ever since I met Dr. Rodriguez and heard of his work with FGMO and again with the Lusby's and their use of smaller cell size in combination with breeding and diet. We first need to keep a healthy level of skepticism anytime there is something new and different offered to us as a solution to certain beekeeping problems. BUT, unless there is overwhelming evidence that this new or different idea could never work, then it behooves us to press forward with it even if at a very slow pace till we can see if the truth is really there. I feel it's a mistake for us to take a hard line on these things because until we try them ourselves, we can only be putting forth theories about them. I would love to see people like Allen and Murray, who have years of experience (certainly more than me), set aside a handful of hives this year and give the Lusby's ideas a try. It will be far more convincing to ones claims if they had the actual experience behind them. I would never expect anyone with 100's or 1000's of hives to do what the Lusby's did and convert their whole production over at once. And maybe it will never be cost effective for people in commercial situations to go this route. But it sure won't hurt them in the pocket book to take 10 or 20 hives and work them over to a different system. At least then they will know if it works for them and if it does, they can then decided how they want to start converting over if they want. I feel this is really perfect for the hobby beekeeper to get into and try. I started last year with 2 hives. I'll keep working with them and increasing from them as long as it's possible. If it fails, then I know first hand for myself. If it works, well you know what will follow. If I thought the odds of it working were so slim, I probably wouldn't be doing it but because I know of a lot of individuals who have been doing it for many years now and they are in all different types of climates, it's hard to ignore that. Dee has strong convictions that their system will work for others. My convictions aren't as strong but time will tell. Regards, Barry Article 28245 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp2.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "terry" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: beebee tree Lines: 4 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:18:19 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.183.118.113 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp2.onemain.com 978898601 209.183.118.113 (Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:16:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:16:41 EST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28245 Could anyone help me find a place to buy seeds of the beebee tree( Evodia danielli)? Article 28246 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:00:18 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <93bhh0$pfu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.174 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jan 08 05:00:18 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x54.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.174 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28246 Yes, I agree that total rejection of new solutions to problems is counterproductive unless it is obviously a stupid idea{like cough drops for tracheal mites was)But look in the new ABJ and there is an article describing the search for the chemical responce that causes varroa to breed in Euoropean bees.Another piece in the puzzle of why oils spread through a hive might confuse the mites.So such things as Fgmo,essential oils,grapefruit leaves in the smoker,and small cell foundation all have theories behind them that intelligent people can accept as at least being worthy of some experimentation.In the long run,we may be forced to rely on a mix of these practices if everything else fails.While I dont beleive we are at that point yet it sure doesnt hurt to do some prep work now.Reading through some of Allens Diaries it is obvious he does try new things but nobody has time to try EVERYTHING(by the way,Allen what was the conlusion for putting Fumidil in patties?I couldnt quite get a handle on the results) > I think the frustration with the Lusbees shown here from time to time stems from their being so sure they are right(when the rest of us aint so convinced,yet)By the way,all the natural cells I measured in our bees were 5.4.(An Italian-Carn mixed type bee with all wax built at an elevation over 3000')The cells pulled from Dadant foundation was the same.So lets all keep trying new things,who knows someday we might find something to put some profit in beekeeping! > Mike -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28247 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!EU.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.tele.dk!64.152.100.70!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail From: "David" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Some questions from a new bee keeper Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:28:03 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 16 Message-ID: <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Reply-To: "David" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.49.a7 X-Server-Date: 8 Jan 2001 05:10:42 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28247 Hello All I am new to beekeeping this year (started last May). I live in Georgia USA. 1) I used 2 Apistan Strips in my hive, I discovered I had varroa mites. The strips were put in the hive after the end of the nectar flow, will the capped honey that is left at the end of winter be usable for human consumption? 2) Are the screened bottom boards any help in the control of Varroa mites? 3) I have noticed a small amount of blue mould on a few of the frames when I opened the hive today. Do I need more ventilation? Thank you. Article 28248 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newshub.sdsu.edu!209.68.192.203!ragnarok.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail From: "Dave" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Yellow Jackets!!!! Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:20:35 -0800 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 15 Message-ID: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 978931395 30527 204.216.255.92 (8 Jan 2001 05:23:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28248 I finally found them. I have been looking for their hives on my property for months. In the last week or so I have found two hives. Both are in the ground. Something had attacked one of them and it was exposed by a hole around 8 inches around with comb lying on the ground out in front of it. The hole is in the side of a hill. I took some interested digital pictures if anyone is interested. Now my question. What is the best way to kill their hives? I am tired of them preying on the honey bee hives. Thanks, Dave Article 28249 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news1.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering From: allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/03.11.14 Lines: 68 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:13:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.188 X-Trace: news1.telusplanet.net 978934386 198.161.229.188 (Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:13:06 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:13:06 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28249 >> There seems to be a tendency among beekeepers to get an idea or hear >> of something new, then run with it on too large a scale... >I'm very glad to read your comments. I wholeheartedly agree with you. In >fact, this is what I've tried to get across ever since I met Dr. >Rodriguez and heard of his work with FGMO and again with the Lusby's and >their use of smaller cell size in combination with breeding and diet. We >first need to keep a healthy level of skepticism anytime there is >something new and different offered to us as a solution to certain >beekeeping problems. BUT, unless there is overwhelming evidence that >this new or different idea could never work, then it behooves us to >press forward with it even if at a very slow pace till we can see if the >truth is really there. And I'm very glad to read your comments. I could have written that paragraph. I am glad to see we are in agreement. >I feel it's a mistake for us to take a hard line >on these things because until we try them ourselves, we can only be >putting forth theories about them. We agree about this too. And I will add to this that even after we try something, we may still be only putting forth theories. Proving things to be 'facts' is not as simple as it may appear. >I would love to see people like Allen >and Murray, who have years of experience (certainly more than me), set >aside a handful of hives this year and give the Lusby's ideas a try. Me too, but life is short, time is limited, and I am already participating and funding what I consider to be more urgent and promising research. As I have said before, I have given this whole Lusby matter a good looking over and think I have done my part by helping get the word out originally. Some sing, some dance. There are many people working on it apparently, and by a year from now -- or two -- I will know if I should get involved. My bet is 'No'. But I've been wrong before. >will be far more convincing to one's claims if they had the actual >experience behind them. Barry, I do not make any claims at all regarding the Lusby experience. I merely report that I read all the supporting material I could find and corresponded a bit with the originator of the theory, collected some info from around North America and Europe, and am not convinced. I am just a voice crying out in the wilderness saying "Look, but be careful". >...I feel this is really perfect for the hobby beekeeper to get into and >try. I started last year with 2 hives. I'll keep working with them and >increasing from them as long as it's possible. If it fails, then I know >first hand for myself. If it works, well you know what will follow. If I >thought the odds of it working were so slim, I probably wouldn't be >doing it but because I know of a lot of individuals who have been doing >it for many years now and they are in all different types of climates, >it's hard to ignore that. Dee has strong convictions that their system >will work for others. My convictions aren't as strong but time will >tell. We'll be watching. We also know that in science there is never such a thing as a failed experiment. Something is always learned, even if it is not what was sought. I'm grateful to those who are taking the risks and hope they will maintain scientific scepticism and objectivity and be scrupulous in their observations and reporting. Regards, allen Article 28250 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering From: allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93bhh0$pfu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/03.11.14 Lines: 25 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:25:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.188 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 978935123 198.161.229.188 (Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:25:23 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:25:23 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28250 >by the way, Allen what was the conlusion for putting Fumidil in patties? >I couldnt quite get a handle on the results I'd forgotten about that. I don't think Eric & I proved anything. I remember posting the data and I think I concluded it was inconclusive. Maybe I should get Adony to work his statistical magic with it, though. I am never 100% sure of anything, but the impression I got was that fumigillan in pollen patties is a waste of Fumidil. On the other hand, dusting fumigillan reportedly has some respectibility Down Under, I think, and drenching may well (should) have some positive effect. I have not heard of any studies, though. >> I think the frustration with the Lusbees shown here from time to >time stems from their being so sure they are right (when the rest of us >aint so convinced,yet)By the way,all the natural cells I measured in >our bees were 5.4.(An Italian-Carn mixed type bee with all wax built at >an elevation over 3000')The cells pulled from Dadant foundation was the >same.So lets all keep trying new things,who knows someday we might find >something to put some profit in beekeeping! My thoughts exactly. allen Article 28251 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!194.165.93.117!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.online.be!ams.uu.net!news.mailgate.org!213.29.206.2!not-for-mail From: subseard@cc.iut.ac.ir (subseard) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: article Date: 8 Jan 2001 07:46:13 +0100 Organization: Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3A596970.B7B2B63E@cc.iut.ac.ir> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.29.206.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.mailgate.org 978936373 8660 213.29.206.2 (Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:17:05 +0300) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mailgate.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2001 06:46:13 GMT Mail-From: subseard@cc.iut.ac.ir from IDENT:root@[213.29.206.2] X-URL: http://www.Mailgate.ORG Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28251 Dear Sir, I want to have full-text of article " Making Sense of Worm Rolling", Russel A. Brezler, Dec. 1980, pp. 122-140, American Mechanist at form pdf file. I appreciated if you could send it for me if possible. Thank you for your favor. Best Regrads Parvin Zakipour Postal Address : Subsea R&D Center, Isfahan University of Technology, P.O.Box 134, Post Code 84154, Isfahan, IRAN -- Posted from IDENT:root@[213.29.206.2] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG Article 28252 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A59A654.5B8BE82E@suscom-maine.net> From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:33:05 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:36:52 -0500 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28252 Good post. The problem with many new beekeeping techniques is that we are dealing with bees and with mites. Their behavior can bias the results and lead to conclusions that are far from universal. Take FGMO. When it first came out it was leapt on by some beekeepers as the solution for control of varroa. I published Dr. Rs results in our state newsletter but with a warning, that it works for him but has not been proved. Those beekeepers who used the method proposed and tried by Dr R lost their bees. His method has gone through several major modifications, but has yet to be accepted on any commercial scale by beekeepers. The problem with it was it seemed to work and there were several excellent rationales on why it did. I was impressed. But what was actually happening was not what was thought was happening. There was varroa drop but it was not just from FGMO. Smoking causes varroa drop, which was not known then. There are probably other causes, which we still do not know. So what was seen led to a false conclusion and many who leapt on that wagon, suffered. Several scientific studies confirmed that FGMO, as proposed, did not work. Cell size may work. But the variables involved with both the bees and the mites may make it a narrow and not a universal solution. You are operating in an area with AFB. It is hot. What mites are involved? I did try small cell size several years ago, and never lost a hive from varroa. But I also used Apistan every year, so was it the cell size or Apistan? I recently tried plastic foundation in my hives and after three years, lost two of three hives. Was it the increase in cell size or varroa resistance? Personally, I will try the smaller foundation. But I am a hobby beekeeper. I can afford the loss. If you look at who is questioning new approaches, it is usually the commercial, big beekeeping operation owners. The proponets of new approaches are usually us gifted amateurs with ten or less hives. And it seems that us gifted amateurs continually ask the big guys to try every new thing with 100 or so hives to see if it will work. And since, at present, there are at least 20 to 50 different ideas on how to treat mites, then we are only asking them to take 2,000 to 5,000 hive out of operation to see if something works. Forget about any real science which would really drive up costs. I can understand their reluctance. Bill T loggermike wrote: > > There seems to be a tendency among beekeepers to get an idea or hear of > something new ,then run with it on too large a scale.I thought it was > just me till I read C.C.Millers 50 Years Among The Bees.We all have to > try new things or we get left behind,but some things are just too > expensive or too shaky to commit to without some small scale trials > first under your own conditions.Examples:small cell foundation,screened > bottoms,FGMO,essential oils and other exotic remedies,and strains of > bees for which inflated claims are made(my favorite in the BS category), > also expensive ventilation systems.There may or may not be merit in > these things but its best not to get too excited until you see for > yourself. > Mike > > "rule 1 of guerrilla warfare:never try to defend an indefensable > position" > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28253 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:05:38 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.133 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jan 08 16:05:38 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x53.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.133 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28253 In article <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com>, "Dave" wrote: > I finally found them. I have been looking for their hives on my property > for months. In the last week or so I have found two hives. Both are in the > ground. Something had attacked one of them and it was exposed by a hole > around 8 inches around with comb lying on the ground out in front of it. > The hole is in the side of a hill. I took some interested digital pictures > if anyone is interested. > > Now my question. What is the best way to kill their hives? I am tired of > them preying on the honey bee hives. > > Thanks, > Dave > Bears and skunks will dig out and eat yellowjackets.During the late summer months these little hornets make life miserable for loggers who have to work in areas with a lot of nests.They are pretty irate about someone kicking around over their nest or slapping timber down around them and its not unusual to get stung every day .Man,I could tell you some stories about running from one nest right into another!Anyway it is standard operating procedure to pour about a pint of gas down there hole preferably after dark but it can be done during daylight as the gas fumes will sicken the returning foragers.I have often had to do this to rescue my tools from a stirred up nest.Just remember to move very slowly as they are very sensitive to vibrations and any sudden movement. > Mike -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28254 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.swbell.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Some questions from a new bee keeper Date: 8 Jan 2001 08:28:39 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 32 Message-ID: <93cprn01lr2@drn.newsguy.com> References: <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-927.newsdawg.com Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28254 In article <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, "David" says... >Hello All >I am new to beekeeping this year (started last May). >I live in Georgia USA. > >1) I used 2 Apistan Strips in my hive, I discovered I had varroa >mites. The strips were put in the hive after the end of the nectar >flow, will the capped honey that is left at the end of winter be >usable for human consumption? The instructions that come with the Apistan strips should answer your question. In a word, "no". I guess the operative question here is "Why did you not take off the surplus honey before putting the Apistan on?". >2) Are the screened bottom boards any help in the control >of Varroa mites? The near-universal answer here is "yes". They certainly do not hurt at all, and I have yet to hear an argument against the use of such boards, other than "cost". >3) I have noticed a small amount of blue mould on a few of the > frames when I opened the hive today. Do I need more ventilation? Mold on the wooden parts of the frames? If so, it seems that this area of the hive was far too damp. More ventilation would be a very good idea. Article 28255 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!csulb.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:14:05 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 43 Message-ID: <93csgh$rlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93bhh0$pfu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.159 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jan 08 17:14:05 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x64.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.159 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28255 In article , allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) wrote: > >by the way, Allen what was the conlusion for putting Fumidil in patties? > >I couldnt quite get a handle on the results > > I'd forgotten about that. I don't think Eric & I proved anything. I > remember posting the data and I think I concluded it was inconclusive. > Maybe I should get Adony to work his statistical magic with it, though. > > I am never 100% sure of anything, but the impression I got was that > fumigillan in pollen patties is a waste of Fumidil. > > On the other hand, dusting fumigillan reportedly has some respectibility > Down Under, I think, and drenching may well (should) have some positive > effect. I have not heard of any studies, though. > > >> Thanks.Just your impression was what I wanted.I remember trying it here years ago(I think Steve Tabor had mentioned how to doit in an ABJ article)and didnt really notice any difference in population.But nosema isnt generally considered a problem in most parts of CA.where bees can fly often in winter(almost every day this dry winter)Some of the big outfits have checked and told me its not a problem but I believe they feed Fumidil to all cell building colonies and nucs to be sure.I guess we all have to make our decisions based on impressions and educated guesses when we lack time or resources to do scientific tests.Although sometimes you just KNOW something is right.Im not one for big government but always felt that our bee research programs benefitted the whole country by helping keep a healthy bee industry by doing studies and tests no one else could afford to do.But I guess those days are passing. > Mike -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28257 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A5A34BE.188B44CE@suscom-maine.net> From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:40:43 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:44:30 -0500 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28257 A 1/4 cup of any good diswashing soap in a gallon of water and pour down the hole. Much better for the soil than gas. I had an explosion of yellowjackets this past fall. One hive died, thanks to my astute beekeeping, and the yjs invaded it and when I shook them off and got the equipment away from them, they started in on the remaining hive, not really getting in but giving it a college try. So I got a spray bottle with the soap solution and commenced shooting them out of the sky. Found out that a fairly concentrated spray, not a mist, knocked them down immediately. Very pleasurable since I was really zapped by them while picking berries a few summers earlier. Soapy water does work. Also works on bees and wasps. And cheap. Bill T loggermike wrote: > > In article <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com>, > "Dave" wrote: > > I finally found them. I have been looking for their hives on my > property > > for months. In the last week or so I have found two hives. Both are > in the > > ground. Something had attacked one of them and it was exposed by a > hole > > around 8 inches around with comb lying on the ground out in front of > it. > > The hole is in the side of a hill. I took some interested digital > pictures > > if anyone is interested. > > > > Now my question. What is the best way to kill their hives? I am > tired of > > them preying on the honey bee hives. > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > Bears and skunks will dig out and eat yellowjackets.During the late > summer months these little hornets make life miserable for loggers who > have to work in areas with a lot of nests.They are pretty irate about > someone kicking around over their nest or slapping timber down around > them and its not unusual to get stung every day .Man,I could tell you > some stories about running from one nest right into another!Anyway it > is standard operating procedure to pour about a pint of gas down there > hole preferably after dark but it can be done during daylight as the > gas fumes will sicken the returning foragers.I have often had to do > this to rescue my tools from a stirred up nest.Just remember to move > very slowly as they are very sensitive to vibrations and any sudden > movement. > > Mike > > -- > loggermike > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28258 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kilty.demon.co.uk!honeymountain From: James Kilty Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apis mellifera mellifera Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:01:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20010104062707.04403.00001003@ng-ft1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 978992559 nnrp-09:5583 NO-IDENT kilty.demon.co.uk:193.237.253.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Lines: 6 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28258 In article , James Kilty writes >Eva Crane's "The Hive and the Honeybee" has a very good chapter on this. Sorry - Bees and Beekeeping. -- James Kilty Article 28259 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: rsbrenchley@aol.com (RSBrenchley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 08 Jan 2001 21:05:34 GMT References: Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Message-ID: <20010108160534.09175.00000617@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28259 My wife complains that the allotment is 'too bush', and only goes there to eat the occasional barbecue, one daughter says nothing and does the same, the other says she's 'scared of those bees'. Hopefully they'll get more interested when I've finally turned a wilderness into a garden,but I don't know how I'd ever get any of them into a position where they could get stung in the first place. I've got real bad-tempered hybrids at the moment but they ignore everyone else when they're down there and just go for me. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com Article 28260 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: rsbrenchley@aol.com (RSBrenchley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 08 Jan 2001 21:10:01 GMT References: <3A4A6C9E.6DF85F03@hpd.botanic.hr> Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: Re: A bee tree? Message-ID: <20010108161001.09175.00000620@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28260 If it's a question of 'stratifying' the seeds, as it's called, use the fridge not the freezer, and leave them there for several weeks. Alternatively (my solution) leave them outside in a pot all winter. That's if you're in an area with reasonably cold winters and some frost, as in the UK. What you need is a temperature slightly above freezing. Some plants are awkward and need doing twice; it might be worth dividing your seeds between two separate pots and giving them different treatment to see what happens. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com Article 28261 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 2 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 09 Jan 2001 00:08:42 GMT References: <20010107164032.04937.00000440@ng-ff1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive robber and others Message-ID: <20010108190842.23916.00000356@ng-fa1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28261 Still waiting on for an answer? Tim Article 28262 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!celynnen.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Dick Thompson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:31:43 -0000 Message-ID: <979000454.14880.0.nnrp-07.d4e4bb39@news.demon.co.uk> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: celynnen.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: celynnen.demon.co.uk:212.228.187.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 979000454 nnrp-07:14880 NO-IDENT celynnen.demon.co.uk:212.228.187.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Lines: 24 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28262 "Dave" wrote in message news:93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com... > I finally found them. I have been looking for their hives on my property > for months. In the last week or so I have found two hives. Both are in the > ground. Something had attacked one of them and it was exposed by a hole > around 8 inches around with comb lying on the ground out in front of it. > The hole is in the side of a hill. I took some interested digital pictures > if anyone is interested. > > Now my question. What is the best way to kill their hives? I am tired of > them preying on the honey bee hives. > > Thanks, > Dave > As a Brit, I'm not sure what you mean by yellow jackets? Presumable they're not wasps; are they hornets? If so, my symapthies go out to you, although having been stung by wasps on three separate occasions when I accidentally disturbed their nests this summer, I can tell you they can be pretty vicious too. And they wiped out one of my colonies in a couple of weeks. Article 28263 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!europa.netcrusader.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail From: "David" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Some questions from a new bee keeper Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:28:43 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 25 Message-ID: <93e352$j0m$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> References: <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <93cprn01lr2@drn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: "David" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.4d.62 X-Server-Date: 9 Jan 2001 04:13:22 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28263 > The instructions that come with the Apistan strips should > answer your question. In a word, "no". > > I guess the operative question here is "Why did you not take > off the surplus honey before putting the Apistan on?". I had left 1 super full for winter stores, not being sure how much they would need. It was all capped when the Apistan strips were added. Should I have removed all surplus honey and then returned it if needed after treatment? > >3) I have noticed a small amount of blue mould on a few of the > > frames when I opened the hive today. Do I need more ventilation? > > Mold on the wooden parts of the frames? If so, it seems that > this area of the hive was far too damp. More ventilation would > be a very good idea. I live in Georgia and it tends to be humid here. The temp. has been down to 18deg.F last week and back up to 59deg.F a few days ago. The inner cover has two vent grooves cut in it and I have the entrance closed down to 3'' by 3/8'' Article 28264 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Dave and Judy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Some questions from a new bee keeper Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:45:21 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3A5A9761.C942A737@fuse.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <93cprn01lr2@drn.newsguy.com> <93e352$j0m$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 49 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28264 David: Lets clear up a bit. Up here in Kentucky, we use 2 boxes for the bees. These boxes are theirs and not to be robbed by us humans. The first box is considered the brood box, the second box is considered the food box. Anything above the 2 boxes is for us. So, was the full super of honey in reality "their" food box? If so, you shouldn't take it. Anything that is left after the cold weather will be used by the bees to build up their numbers. As a matter of fact, if they don't have enough to get built up in time for the first nectar flow, you may have to feed them. If, on the other hand, that super was really a super and the 3rd box up from the bottom, you won't want to take the honey anyway. It could, very likely, have fluvalinate in it. When you treat with Apistan you must never have any frames on that hive that you may ever use to extract for human consumption. One of the tricks would be to use one size boxes for the bee boxes and another size for any boxes that you can eat honey from. That way you can never get some drawn foundation that has been exposed to Apistan confused with the clean drawn foundation that you can extract from. Hope this helps. Judy in Kentucky David wrote: > > The instructions that come with the Apistan strips should > > answer your question. In a word, "no". > > > > I guess the operative question here is "Why did you not take > > off the surplus honey before putting the Apistan on?". > > I had left 1 super full for winter stores, not being sure how much they > would need. It was all capped when the Apistan strips were added. > Should I have removed all surplus honey and then returned it if needed after > treatment? > > > >3) I have noticed a small amount of blue mould on a few of the > > > frames when I opened the hive today. Do I need more ventilation? > > > > Mold on the wooden parts of the frames? If so, it seems that > > this area of the hive was far too damp. More ventilation would > > be a very good idea. > I live in Georgia and it tends to be humid here. The temp. has been down to > 18deg.F last week and back up to 59deg.F a few days ago. > The inner cover has two vent grooves cut in it and I have the entrance > closed down to 3'' by 3/8'' Article 28265 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Dave and Judy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: State Bee Associations Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:48:17 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 19 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28265 Hi everyone. I posted this request on Bee-L, but I only received 9 responses. Maybe I can do better here! I am attempting to put together a list of each state's bee association, how much it costs to be a member, and what benefits you receive as a member. I have searched archives, Midnite Bee's site and Bee Culture. None seem to give the cost of membership. If you are a member of a state club, would you forward this info for your state? Thanks in advance for any help. Judy in Kentucky Article 28266 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 09 Jan 2001 14:35:45 GMT References: <979000454.14880.0.nnrp-07.d4e4bb39@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! Message-ID: <20010109093545.19398.00000077@ng-mb1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28266 From: "Dick Thompson" dick@celynnen.demon.co.uk >As a Brit, I'm not sure what you mean by yellow jackets? Presumable they're >not wasps; are they hornets? Here's a photo. They are a kind of wasp. http://pollinator.com/yellow_jacket.htm Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 28268 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 09 Jan 2001 11:15:04 GMT References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: State Bee Associations Message-ID: <20010109061504.13178.00000653@ng-ce1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28268 >If you are a member of a state club, would you forward this info for >your state? > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >Judy in Kentucky > Hi judy everything for North Carolina http://www.ncbeekeepers.org/ hope it helps Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 28269 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Tinkering Lines: 78 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:39:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 979094392 24.13.215.128 (Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:39:52 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:39:52 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28269 I thought the Lusbys were quite successful with their feral sized cells? Please inform me if I am wrong, all the information I have read has indicated its success. Scot Mc Pherson Barry Birkey wrote in message news:B67E72C8.8FF8%barry@birkey.com... > in article 93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com, loggermike at loggermike@my-deja.com > wrote on 1/7/01 9:23 AM: > > > There seems to be a tendency among beekeepers to get an idea or hear of > > something new ,then run with it on too large a scale.I thought it was > > just me till I read C.C.Millers 50 Years Among The Bees.We all have to > > try new things or we get left behind,but some things are just too > > expensive or too shaky to commit to without some small scale trials > > first under your own conditions.Examples:small cell foundation,screened > > bottoms,FGMO,essential oils and other exotic remedies,and strains of > > bees for which inflated claims are made(my favorite in the BS category), > > also expensive ventilation systems.There may or may not be merit in > > these things but its best not to get too excited until you see for > > yourself. > > Mike > > Hello Mike - > > I'm very glad to read your comments. I wholeheartedly agree with you. In > fact, this is what I've tried to get across ever since I met Dr. Rodriguez > and heard of his work with FGMO and again with the Lusby's and their use of > smaller cell size in combination with breeding and diet. We first need to > keep a healthy level of skepticism anytime there is something new and > different offered to us as a solution to certain beekeeping problems. BUT, > unless there is overwhelming evidence that this new or different idea could > never work, then it behooves us to press forward with it even if at a very > slow pace till we can see if the truth is really there. I feel it's a > mistake for us to take a hard line on these things because until we try them > ourselves, we can only be putting forth theories about them. I would love to > see people like Allen and Murray, who have years of experience (certainly > more than me), set aside a handful of hives this year and give the Lusby's > ideas a try. It will be far more convincing to ones claims if they had the > actual experience behind them. > > I would never expect anyone with 100's or 1000's of hives to do what the > Lusby's did and convert their whole production over at once. And maybe it > will never be cost effective for people in commercial situations to go this > route. But it sure won't hurt them in the pocket book to take 10 or 20 hives > and work them over to a different system. At least then they will know if it > works for them and if it does, they can then decided how they want to start > converting over if they want. > > I feel this is really perfect for the hobby beekeeper to get into and try. I > started last year with 2 hives. I'll keep working with them and increasing > from them as long as it's possible. If it fails, then I know first hand for > myself. If it works, well you know what will follow. If I thought the odds > of it working were so slim, I probably wouldn't be doing it but because I > know of a lot of individuals who have been doing it for many years now and > they are in all different types of climates, it's hard to ignore that. Dee > has strong convictions that their system will work for others. My > convictions aren't as strong but time will tell. > > Regards, > > Barry > Article 28270 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!not-for-mail From: "Barry Metz" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Beeswax wood polish Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:27:13 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.215.13.171 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 979097437 210.215.13.171 (Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:30:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:30:37 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:30:37 EST (news.interact.net.au) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28270 can anyone give me a recipe for beeswax wood polish thanks -- Barry Metz Article 28271 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!csulb.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!209.68.192.203!ragnarok.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail From: "Dave" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:38:12 -0800 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 9 Message-ID: <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 979101765 85030 204.216.255.92 (10 Jan 2001 04:42:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28271 Thanks! I think I read somewhere about using gas. I will reply back and let all know how it worked out. I will probably do it this weekend. I think I have some old yard machine gas (2 stroke added) I didn't know how to dispose of. Dave Article 28272 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:49:57 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: <93i0b0$tsu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20010108160534.09175.00000617@ng-cr1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.156 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 10 15:49:57 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x56.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.156 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28272 In article <20010108160534.09175.00000617@ng-cr1.aol.com>, rsbrenchley@aol.com (RSBrenchley) wrote: > My wife complains that the allotment is 'too bush', and only goes there to eat > the occasional barbecue, one daughter says nothing and does the same, the other > says she's 'scared of those bees'. Hopefully they'll get more interested when > I've finally turned a wilderness into a garden,but I don't know how I'd ever > get any of them into a position where they could get stung in the first place. > I've got real bad-tempered hybrids at the moment but they ignore everyone else > when they're down there and just go for me. > > Regards, > > Robert Brenchley > > RSBrenchley@aol.com > You are right its probably hopeless to get family members to get stung voluntarily.We just try to get everyone involved enough that nature will take its course.So far no allergic reactions,just the usual local swelling .I sympathise about the mean bees.I hate them and take note any time a hive is more aggressive than the rest.It gets requeened pronto.You should be able to walk back to your truck after working a yard and be able to take off your veil without being attacked,at least most of the time.I have never seen mean bees out produce gentle bees they just make beekeeping miserable. -- Mike loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28273 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:48:29 -0700 Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: feral-bee.tucson.ars.ag.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28273 Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( 4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 32.27495 N 110.9402 W http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html Article 28274 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!Tele.Dk.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: software update Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:28:57 +0100 Organization: Posted Courtesy of Tele Danmark or one of its European Subsidiaries Lines: 46 Message-ID: <93icsf$b0d$1@news.inet.tele.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip52.mrgnxr2.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 979154639 11277 195.215.97.52 X-Complaints-To: the appropriate department of the poster's provider X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28274 Bidata now up to Scandinavian (and many other) Standards. The 2001 edition includes the following : Queen breeder Register card with dropdown lists for a lot of stuff. Disease form with dropdown lists for diseases, treatment and control. the forms have changed to tabbed notebook format to get a better overview. Number of frames in a hive is now reflected when you enter a new hive-note. Multi-selection of hives to handle. means that you only have to e.g. enter disease treatment ones and then by accepting the entries, add to all selected hives. This also goes for data entries to hives and some of the hive manipulations. To multi-select use Ctrl + mouse-click. It is of course up to you only to add data that is relevant for multi-adding. Hives in a yard can be additional grouped. Such as identified by placement on e.g. pallets. backup of data added. If you use this facility when leaving the software, you will have the ability to restore data after an eventually power failure. I am working on a way to use boxes of frames together with the ability to use single frames, but until then you can add frames equal to the contents of a box. E.g. if your supers are of type eleven frames then you just give the number of 11 when you add a box. I will now work on adding a real accounting software. The source is Canadian, and it might be that you can use it. for this update get http:\\apimo.dk\bidata.exe about 800KB -- Kind regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software full revised and bug tested 10-12-2000 Now chatroom for beekeeping installed. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 28275 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.fl.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Scot Mc Pherson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Tinkering Lines: 64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:45:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.215.128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.fl.home.com 979177511 24.13.215.128 (Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:45:11 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:45:11 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28275 Well to keep matters straight, I am not a professional beekeeper. I have kept between 1 and 10 hives for the last 15 years with a period of inactivity while I was in the service of the US Navy. I keep bees for persoanl interest as a hobby and also to suppliment other hobbies which may require either sugar or honey. I have never sold honey, although I have been thinking of doing so on the small scale recently (hence your idea of my being a neophyte beekeeper, although I certainly would classify myself as a neophyte in beeyard management =)) ) in the form of round ross or cut comb honey at the local farmer's market as a novelty form of honey...at least for most of today's folk its novel. Scot Mc Pherson Murray McGregor wrote in message news:Qdm+f8AQ6BX6Ew6k@denrosa.demon.co.uk... > In article , Scot Mc > Pherson writes > >I thought the Lusbys were quite successful with their feral sized cells? > >Please inform me if I am wrong, all the information I have read has > >indicated its success. > > > >Scot Mc Pherson > > It is indeed said to be a success, and all the publicity surrounding it > is couched in these terms. > > However, I suggest you look very closely at it, and the contra arguments > advanced too, most particularly the statistics involved in the cost of > conversion, the likely time it will take you to convert and your loss of > income throughout that period ( I seem to recall you writing before you > were either already a commercial beekeeper or intending to become one). > The 'spin' put on the Lusby project does paint the picture of a success, > but the statistics are the really important part you have to scrutinise, > together with quite a few negative items which slip out (from Dee Lusby > herself, not the 'knockers') in newsgroups, chatrooms, etc. > > Success is measured against your own expectations, so compare it all > against your needs or desires, and temper the facts given with the > caution you would treat anyone trying to sell you on something. > > If the figures stack up for you then fine, but if not wait till > something else less damaging to your prospects comes along. (And in the > meantime treat or manage varroa in a PROVEN effective way ) > > Incidentally, 'feral' can mean different things. Either truly feral, ie > wild and has been for many generations, or recent escapees. This could > have a big bearing on what truly constitutes a 'feral' size, if the > arguments of gradual genetic alteration are to be believed. FWIW, > especially given that I am not in an environment remotely like yours, I > have NEVER found a wild comb drawn with such tiny cells, even in wild > colonies of many years standing. 5.05 is the smallest I ever found, and > that was ailing. Most have been closely approximate to the smaller > commercially available sizes, like in the 5.3 to 5.4 range. > > 5.7 or so is also commonly available, and may be too large, although I > have not seen any direct evidence to support that. I am using foundation > in the 5.2 to 5.5 range now, primarily 5.2 Pierco. > > > -- > Murray McGregor Article 28276 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:34:24 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 979115690 nnrp-07:21936 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 46 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28276 In article , Scot Mc Pherson writes >I thought the Lusbys were quite successful with their feral sized cells? >Please inform me if I am wrong, all the information I have read has >indicated its success. > >Scot Mc Pherson It is indeed said to be a success, and all the publicity surrounding it is couched in these terms. However, I suggest you look very closely at it, and the contra arguments advanced too, most particularly the statistics involved in the cost of conversion, the likely time it will take you to convert and your loss of income throughout that period ( I seem to recall you writing before you were either already a commercial beekeeper or intending to become one). The 'spin' put on the Lusby project does paint the picture of a success, but the statistics are the really important part you have to scrutinise, together with quite a few negative items which slip out (from Dee Lusby herself, not the 'knockers') in newsgroups, chatrooms, etc. Success is measured against your own expectations, so compare it all against your needs or desires, and temper the facts given with the caution you would treat anyone trying to sell you on something. If the figures stack up for you then fine, but if not wait till something else less damaging to your prospects comes along. (And in the meantime treat or manage varroa in a PROVEN effective way ) Incidentally, 'feral' can mean different things. Either truly feral, ie wild and has been for many generations, or recent escapees. This could have a big bearing on what truly constitutes a 'feral' size, if the arguments of gradual genetic alteration are to be believed. FWIW, especially given that I am not in an environment remotely like yours, I have NEVER found a wild comb drawn with such tiny cells, even in wild colonies of many years standing. 5.05 is the smallest I ever found, and that was ailing. Most have been closely approximate to the smaller commercially available sizes, like in the 5.3 to 5.4 range. 5.7 or so is also commonly available, and may be too large, although I have not seen any direct evidence to support that. I am using foundation in the 5.2 to 5.5 range now, primarily 5.2 Pierco. -- Murray McGregor Article 28277 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Matthew Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! - use soap not gas! Organization: ACS Reply-To: qualityram@yahoo.ie Message-ID: References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:44:54 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.227.62.192 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 979137898 63.227.62.192 (Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:44:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:44:58 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28277 Mix together a gallon or two of water and soap. Pour it into the hole. Surfactant will knock down a flying insect faster than anything you can do to them. They drown immediately since they can't hold their breath without an abdomen. The surfactant destroys the wax around their air holes. I've done this on several occasions responding to supposed "bee removals"........ Anything that flies is bound to end up called a "bee" by somebody. Here's the bonus - you won't be poisoning the ground! Imagine that, a beekeeper that respects nature. Regards, Matthew Westall On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:38:12 -0800, "Dave" wrote: >Thanks! I think I read somewhere about using gas. I will reply back and >let all know how it worked out. I will probably do it this weekend. I >think I have some old yard machine gas (2 stroke added) I didn't know how to >dispose of. > >Dave > > Article 28278 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tinkering Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:20:55 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 60 Message-ID: <93hukb$s5p$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93a1m5$kil$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.156 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 10 15:20:55 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x65.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.156 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28278 In article , "Scot Mc Pherson" wrote: > I thought the Lusbys were quite successful with their feral sized cells? > Please inform me if I am wrong, all the information I have read has > indicated its success. > > Scot Mc Pherson > I hope I dont sound too much like Clinton,but it depends on what the definition of success is.With some people it is to keep every box filled with healthy bees in order to meet pollenation contracts and produce a maximum honey crop,or produce enough bees and queens to sell to their customers.In other words to stay alive financially.To others success means having 2 or 3 hives survive to pollenate their garden.The concern of the larger beeman who depends on his bees for income is that every decision has to reflect the bottom line.The idea of turning over thousands of boxes of comb to a smaller cell size probably doesnt look economically justifiable at this time,because truthfully most are able to keep their bees alive and healthy using other more economical methods.The problem as I see it is that there are a lot of variables around the Lusbys methods that may not translate into success everywhere else.I mean they are operating in a desert area where as far as I know ,the africanized bee has become dominant.How much has this affected their results?I know they say there success is 33% cell size,33% genetics,and 33% nutrition,(I hope I got that right)so if only 33% is cell size,the rest is management.Unless you duplicate their techniques under the same conditions,why would you think you would get the same results?I mean if you are trucking Cordovan Italians around for pollenation after heavy feeding of syrup and pollen supplements,and using regular mite treatments the small cell foundation isnt going to have diddly effect except a lot of extra expense.I think Dee Lusby said something to that effect,that you would have to adopt all their ideas ,not just the small cell wax. I am not discounting the Lusbys ideas as they are obviously very capable beekeepers,but I dont think most could afford to go through what they did to get where they are.So Im back to what I said originally:like it says in the Bible,count the cost before committing yourself. Mike > > > > -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28279 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!stl-feed.news.verio.net!news1.primary.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com> From: Taylor Francis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Building hives... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 4 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:56:06 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.224.203.48 X-Complaints-To: abuse@primary.net X-Trace: news1.primary.net 979225151 216.224.203.48 (Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:59:11 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:59:11 CST Organization: Primary Network http://www.primary.net Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28279 I've built my hive bodies and am ready to paint. Do I paint just the outside? Do I paint the inside? What about the top and bottom edges? Thanks... Article 28280 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.cs.utexas.edu!galaxy.us.dell.com!news-feeds!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! - use soap not gas! Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:51:58 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: <93khaa$40i$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.176 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 11 14:51:58 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x72.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.176 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28280 > > Here's the bonus - you won't be poisoning the ground! Imagine that, a > beekeeper that respects nature. > > It is well known that there are bacteria in the soil that will break down petroleum products.I am sure not in favor of putting any large quantities in the soil that would cause a problem but I doubt a cup or two would hurt anything.I remember many years ago catching trout in a Ca.creek that had natural tar oozing into it from several places.There was an oil slick in places but the fish tasted good and were natives (reproducing in the creek).Maybe nature doesnt respect nature,sometimes! > > As Herb pointed out,yellowjackets and wasps do a lot of good especially in the timbered areas by eating the little worms that damage trees.My philosophy is to only destroy them when it is unavoidable,but then show no mercy!But if you are more comfortable with a soap solution,have at it.I know it works on ants. Mike -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28281 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Building hives... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:47:52 -0500 Lines: 17 Message-ID: <93kkjn$altug$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979228088 11204560 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28281 I paint everything except the inside of the hive box. I give a extra coat or two to the bottom board. -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html "Taylor Francis" wrote in message news:3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com... > I've built my hive bodies and am ready to paint. Do I paint just the > outside? Do I paint the inside? What about the top and bottom edges? > > Thanks... Article 28282 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 11 Jan 2001 06:53:56 GMT References: <93i0b0$tsu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Message-ID: <20010111015356.17941.00001021@ng-fx1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28282 I sure agree about the mean bees--lots of experience with them going 100s of feet away to sting me and others. Probably they would do well in nature. My problem is how do you get queen bees quickly--do you know any sources? Do you raise your own queens? If so, how do you keep them "in storage"? Only thing I can think of is to make a few nucs and then use the nuc to "re-queen"? Our local company just has advance orders and that's it. I've ordered lots before from York and it takes days and days, and MUCH of the time they arrive dead. Then, a month of misery has gone by..... Buzzylee Article 28283 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 9 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 11 Jan 2001 07:23:23 GMT References: <3A368E8B.42AB402C@NOSPAMims.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beekeeping $ Boy Scouts Message-ID: <20010111022323.17941.00001023@ng-fx1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28283 Yes--girls too. I was leader (girl scouts) these past three years and had the girls participate in extracting and we sold some honey bears as a fund raising project. Didn't have enough honey at that time to get much in the way of dollars--but good experience for the girls. I think making up nice (small) Holidays baskets and selling them could bring in good results for any youth group and be fun for them, especially if they get involved in the processing. Same with candles. Article 28284 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! - use soap not gas! Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:17:50 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: <93kfa5$278$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.193.184 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 11 14:17:50 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x52.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.188.193.184 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28284 In article , qualityram@yahoo.ie wrote: > > Mix together a gallon or two of water and soap. Pour it into the > hole. Surfactant will knock down a flying insect faster than anything > you can do to them. They drown immediately since they can't hold > their breath without an abdomen. The surfactant destroys the wax > around their air holes. > Thank you, Matthew, for the soap procedure. A few months ago someone here jumped on me for suggesting gasoline ( which I had used successfully). I don't think the small amount of gasoline used to wipe out yellow jackets hurts the ground much. Whatever damage occurs is not permanent. A few weeks later there were plants and earthworms in my garden where the yellow jackets had been. But soap sounds better. Of course, as I said before, yellow jackets are a gardener's friend because their main diet is caterpillars so we should avoid killing them if possible. But if they get too troublesome for my bees they have to go and leave the caterpillars to me. Soap also kills a lot of garden pests. Sincerely, Herb NW Florida USA Vasak@aol.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28285 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Some questions from a new bee keeper Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:01:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <93khs7$4k1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93bi4i$bts$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <93cprn01lr2@drn.newsguy.com> <93e352$j0m$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.193.184 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 11 15:01:34 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x67.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.188.193.184 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28285 In article <93e352$j0m$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, "David" wrote: > > > >3) I have noticed a small amount of blue mould on a few of the > > > frames when I opened the hive today. Do I need more ventilation? > > > > Mold on the wooden parts of the frames? If so, it seems that > > this area of the hive was far too damp. More ventilation would > > be a very good idea. > I live in Georgia and it tends to be humid here. The temp. has been down to > 18deg.F last week and back up to 59deg.F a few days ago. > The inner cover has two vent grooves cut in it and I have the entrance > closed down to 3'' by 3/8'' > David, I live in NW Florida where we have had similar temperatures and humidity is high. I built a lean-to roof out of fibreglass on the south side of my workshop and put 4 hives under it. This kept direct rain off of them but still allowed some sunlight to reach the face of the hives. On other hives that are out in the open, I used some of those corrugated plastic election campaign signs to keep rain from falling directly on the hives or running down the sides. Also I've got all the hives setting about 16 inches above the ground. Never have seen any mold in any of them. BTW, you may run into another problem with Apistan as the mites become immune to it. We use screen bottoms and also mix a little wintergreen oil with the syrup when we feed the bees. I think the oil has helped keep our bees healthy. This year we are experimenting with food grade mineral oil. Still hoping to find some way besides Apistan and Bayer strips to control mites. Sincerely, Herb NW Florida USA vasak@aol.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28286 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.cs.utexas.edu!galaxy.us.dell.com!news-feeds!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:24:06 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <93kj6a$5r8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93i0b0$tsu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010111015356.17941.00001021@ng-fx1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.172 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 11 15:24:06 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x63.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.172 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28286 In article <20010111015356.17941.00001021@ng-fx1.aol.com>, lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) wrote: > I sure agree about the mean bees--lots of experience with them going 100s of > feet away to sting me and others. Probably they would do well in nature. > My problem is how do you get queen bees quickly--do you know any sources? Do > you raise your own queens? If so, how do you keep them "in storage"? Only > thing I can think of is to make a few nucs and then use the nuc to "re-queen"? Its always a good idea to have extra queens on hand. With bees nothing is ever 100%.I figure if I get 80% of anything thats good.We buy early queens from a breeder we trust and raise queens later after the weather settles from hives that have done well the previous year,wintered well,built up early,show no disease and ARE NOT MEAN. We use a lot of nuc boards,just thin plywood pieces with 3/8" strips the same as a bottom board.When there is brood in both boxes we put the old queen down in the bottom box,then an excluder next any honey supers,then the nuc board,then the other brood box.This is then given the purchased queen or a cell.You can also do this when you find swarm cells and let them keep a cell or two in the top nuc.If you do this with a percentage(or all your hives)you will have 2 queens laying during the spring build-up that can be recombined when your main flow starts or you can set the top nuc off to make increase,or you can use them to requeen the hives with failing or mean queens.There is more to it but this is an outline of a plan than is used by many to keep hives productive. Mike -- loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28287 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! - use soap not gas! Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:19:07 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3a5e3026.174316267@news1.radix.net> References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p20.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28287 On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:44:54 -0700, Matthew wrote: > >Mix together a gallon or two of water and soap. Pour it into the >hole. Surfactant will knock down a flying insect faster than anything >you can do to them. They drown immediately since they can't hold >their breath without an abdomen. The surfactant destroys the wax >around their air holes. > > I've done this on several occasions responding to supposed "bee >removals"........ Anything that flies is bound to end up called a >"bee" by somebody. > >Here's the bonus - you won't be poisoning the ground! Imagine that, a >beekeeper that respects nature. > >Regards, >Matthew Westall Some people have to take the fun out of everything. A glass bowl over the hole in the ground usually does the trick. As for the gas thing. Fill a beer can with gas and wick it with a piece of cloth. Place it next to the hole and light it. Stand back 20 yards and shoot the hole in the ground with a .22 to stir them up real good. Then shoot the bottom of the can and watch the cloud of yellow jackets be engulfed in the fire ball. Now that's fun. beekeep Article 28288 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 11 Jan 2001 07:18:57 GMT References: <5v385ts9krgnrjcd98b8qb2n38jg4orq4a@4ax.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: National Organic Standard Message-ID: <20010111021857.17941.00001022@ng-fx1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28288 I agree with your comments and arn't you from Texas! Good for you. I've seen locally so many cities in bed with developers (who pay the various fees that support city expansion), forest service officials sleeping with local timber firms, etc., etc. The only "rationalization" I can think of is the same old one you hear to excuse everything--"just look at other countries and how much better our system is, etc."........ Bye. Buzzylee Article 28289 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.alsv1.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A5E6E42.5664D7DA@home.com> From: RICHARD MCCLELLAN Organization: @Home Network Member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets!!!! - use soap not gas! References: <93bis3$tpv$1@thoth.cts.com> <93cogb$nlo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gp85$2j16$1@thoth.cts.com> <3a5e3026.174316267@news1.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:43:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.176.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.alsv1.occa.home.com 979267429 24.13.176.176 (Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:43:49 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:43:49 PST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28289 Now that is my kind of answer. The bastards are welcome to live, just not in my back yard. Hate getting stung by them. The kind we have are aggressive as hell. I always thought gas was a good solution since they deserved every bit of it. But, the beer can and the .22--now that is real imagination. Can hardly wait. Actually, after I immolate a few of them, I think I will pour the soap down the hole. Suffocating can't be too much fun either. beekeep wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:44:54 -0700, Matthew > wrote: > > > > >Mix together a gallon or two of water and soap. Pour it into the > >hole. Surfactant will knock down a flying insect faster than anything > >you can do to them. They drown immediately since they can't hold > >their breath without an abdomen. The surfactant destroys the wax > >around their air holes. > > > > I've done this on several occasions responding to supposed "bee > >removals"........ Anything that flies is bound to end up called a > >"bee" by somebody. > > > >Here's the bonus - you won't be poisoning the ground! Imagine that, a > >beekeeper that respects nature. > > > >Regards, > >Matthew Westall > > Some people have to take the fun out of everything. A glass bowl over > the hole in the ground usually does the trick. > > As for the gas thing. Fill a beer can with gas and wick it with a > piece of cloth. Place it next to the hole and light it. Stand back > 20 yards and shoot the hole in the ground with a .22 to stir them up > real good. Then shoot the bottom of the can and watch the cloud of > yellow jackets be engulfed in the fire ball. Now that's fun. > > beekeep Article 28290 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A5E78F6.2CC82973@gte.net> From: Chad Howell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {GTE Internetworking} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Building hives... References: <3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com> <93kkjn$altug$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 X-Trace: /K0ZEEp9IWUWpIpGZvh0XmndB44MGmmz5C0XTtwirvuJ7ok5EDgC+mSniYKC5V9zhB4/5T6LU+9i!4/fmrHLowGo7+DVUcVCtSE17oCoV12E6X8LKIQB0ZbCgntTKKZfkQVc+GoRXIg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:23:51 GMT Distribution: world Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:23:51 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28290 I paint everything too except the inside. I found the easiest way to paint them is on a warm day. First I set up my paint jig ( a stand made of 2X4's) then fill my power sprayer this stain and shoot. a heck of alot quicker then brushing or rolling. I quit using paint because of the extra time needed to prime the bodies first. I use a semi solid stain made by Cabot that can be tinted to whatever color you like, in my case Kiwi Green. It's nontraditional. Chad Howell BeeFarmer wrote: > I paint everything except the inside of the hive box. I give a extra coat > or two to the bottom board. > -- > BeeFarmer > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > "Taylor Francis" wrote in message > news:3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com... > > I've built my hive bodies and am ready to paint. Do I paint just the > > outside? Do I paint the inside? What about the top and bottom edges? > > > > Thanks... Article 28291 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 7 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 12 Jan 2001 08:57:10 GMT References: <93kj6a$5r8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Message-ID: <20010112035710.11457.00000911@ng-cf1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28291 Great idea. Question. With the new "purchased queen" above the excluder and nuc board surrounded by the new brood box, why do these bees "accept" the new queen, given the old queen's pheronome in the hive? I would have thought these bees would just kill the newcomer, since the old queen is alive and well below, even tho restrained from the new lady. Article 28292 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: loggermike Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: You know you are in a beekeeping family........... Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:56:12 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 44 Message-ID: <93n5u7$du9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93kj6a$5r8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010112035710.11457.00000911@ng-cf1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.16.67.150 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 12 14:56:12 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95; ezn-ie5-r77-32) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x62.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.16.67.150 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDloggermike Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28292 In article <20010112035710.11457.00000911@ng-cf1.aol.com>, lklarson1@aol.com (LKLarson1) wrote: > Great idea. Question. With the new "purchased queen" above the excluder and > nuc board surrounded by the new brood box, why do these bees "accept" the new > queen, given the old queen's pheronome in the hive? I would have thought these > bees would just kill the newcomer, since the old queen is alive and well below, > even tho restrained from the new lady. > The nuc board completely divides the hive into two totally seperate units. The entrance of the nuc board is usually placed so the bees come and go from the back of the hive.By the time the new queen is released,most of the old bees have left the nuc and rejoined the lower unit.Enough young bees stay with the brood to keep it warm,and young bees will almost always accept a new queen.Its the old bees that are set in their ways(cranky,like old beekeepers)that cause the trouble in requeening.The weather should be warm enough when you do this so the old bees do have a chance to go below.Now if you want to refine this a bit,you should re-arrange things so that both units have some honey in case the weather turns cold.Also the top unit will be the weaker unit with mostly young bees that havent flown so make sure they dont have too much brood to keep warm.It is pretty common to make up the upper unit with 4 combs of sealed brood if you use all deep frames,also you should shake a few extra combs of bees into the top unit for insurance.In spite of this,on occasion too many bees will desert the uppper unit to maintain the brood temperature,especially if a cell is given instead of a queen.For this reason some prefer a double- screen board instead of the solid plywood.But we find the plywood boards cheap and easy to make and we like the fact that they totally seperate the units allowing no queen pheremones from below to rise into the upper unit.Although I doubt much could anyway even with the double screen.They also do double duty later in the season as covers for stacks of honey supers.They are also handy as emergency covers and bottoms for hiving swarms.See,I told you there was more to it! -- Mike loggermike Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28293 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: fipple6@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Hive robber and others Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:37:17 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <93o4fc$b37$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20010107164032.04937.00000440@ng-ff1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.47.48.69 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 12 22:59:41 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x53.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.47.48.69 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28293 Honey dripping inside is not a good sign. (It is honey and not water condensation, right?) I'd pop the lid open and check the cluster, or lack of one. (Remember also, even when it's cold outside, the bees can fly out of their warm cluster, so be prepared.) Paul In article <20010107164032.04937.00000440@ng-ff1.aol.com>, bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) wrote: > It been rough winter this time of the year, Last week I check on the hive while > painting and have notice the honey were dripping inside on the landing board. > Why? > Also, Today was first time it been warm as 54, The bees from hive # 2 were > going in ( the one with drip honey) hive #1 and rob the honey and take it to > #2. Fact, I give them #2 a Supper full of honey last fall. > Do I need sugar feed to ea. enter hive to feed inside? > Thanks. > Tim > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28294 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 13 Jan 2001 03:48:07 GMT References: <3A5DC986.4BF6617C@yahoo.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Building hives... Message-ID: <20010112224807.07481.00001324@ng-da1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28294 I have heard every argument for painting and not painting the insides. The bees can varnish the insides themselves. But all the other surfaces get a coat or two. I put a 2x4 about 8' long across two trashcans and paint 6 or 8 at a time. If you rub the edges with wax the paint doesn't stick the boxes. together as bad. Tom Article 28295 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 3 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: morristh@aol.com (MORRISTH) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 13 Jan 2001 14:18:31 GMT References: <3A58CD08.11E3A1AB@gte.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: january feeding Message-ID: <20010113091831.27708.00000093@ng-ma1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28295 According to the Pink Pages of Dr. Imirie--2:1 must be used in the fall/winter to prevent dysentary. I use a gallon jug over the inner covers hole-doesnt cover the entire hole so the ventilation is still here Article 28296 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 3 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: morristh@aol.com (MORRISTH) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 13 Jan 2001 14:16:21 GMT References: <93o4fc$b37$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive robber and others Message-ID: <20010113091621.27708.00000092@ng-ma1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28296 If you are in one of those area that have ht esmall hive beetle, from what I have read this is a sign of them. Find online the info on hive beetles and see if you have other symptoms Article 28297 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Clark" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Entomology Bookstore online Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:47:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.179.33.118 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 979444057 209.179.33.118 (Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:47:37 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:47:37 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28297 We now have 125 excellent entomology book titles available for order via credit card. Book cover image previews provided on most. Well organized by insect order for your convenience. Includes books on apiculture. http://www.insectnet.com/bookstore/booktoc.htm Article 28298 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 6 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 14 Jan 2001 16:05:14 GMT References: <20010113091621.27708.00000092@ng-ma1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive robber and others Message-ID: <20010114110514.08674.00000059@ng-mh1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28298 The hive were a strong and I don't see why would it have a beetles in it? They were healtha and plenty of honey to eat last Fall. It were dripping few day and then quit. I feel like the bees from other hive were robber from it so quicken could have cause honey running down? Tim Article 28299 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 5 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 14 Jan 2001 16:09:02 GMT References: <93o4fc$b37$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive robber and others Message-ID: <20010114110902.08674.00000060@ng-mh1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28299 Ok, Will check it out twice the Temp. reach up above 50's and see what it going on in there. I put out sugar feeds other day and they have touch it. It was warm day and they were flying like craze on the landing board which I understood was cleaning time. Tim Article 28300 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "robert.wigman" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Swarm box Lines: 37 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C07E4D.6FA15700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:14:21 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.104.41.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 979492428 213.104.41.18 (Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:13:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:13:48 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C07E4D.6FA15700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have plans (email or snailmail) I could beg, buy, borrow to = build a timber swarm box for holding a few (6 or so?) frames? I live in = the UK & my hives are British national type, so I would be using frames = from these, Tanks, Bob ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C07E4D.6FA15700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have plans (email or snailmail) I could = beg, buy,=20 borrow to build a timber swarm box for holding a few (6 or so?) frames? = I live=20 in the UK & my hives are British national type, so I would be using = frames=20 from these,
Tanks, Bob
------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C07E4D.6FA15700-- Article 28301 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone-0.nyroc.rr.com!cyclone-out.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Leif Woodman Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beeswax wood polish Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:51:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.169.122.78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rochester.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 979509074 24.169.122.78 (Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:51:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:51:14 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Rochester NY Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28301 It is a compination of wax and turpentine. It is best to melt the wax a little before mixing. for the exact recipe ask in the rec.woodworking group. On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:27:13 +1100, "Barry Metz" wrote: >can anyone give me a recipe for beeswax wood polish >thanks Article 28302 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail From: jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beekeeping $ Boy Scouts Date: 14 Jan 2001 23:24:43 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 22 Message-ID: <93tcfr$5k7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3A368E8B.42AB402C@NOSPAMims.com> <20010111022323.17941.00001023@ng-fx1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: h80ad2285.async.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 979514683 5767 128.173.34.133 (14 Jan 2001 23:24:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2001 23:24:43 GMT X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28302 In article <20010111022323.17941.00001023@ng-fx1.aol.com>, lklarson1@aol.com says... > >Yes--girls too. I was leader (girl scouts) these past three years and had the >girls participate in extracting and we sold some honey bears as a fund raising >project. Didn't have enough honey at that time to get much in the way of >dollars--but good experience for the girls. I think making up nice (small) >Holidays baskets and selling them could bring in good results for any youth >group and be fun for them, especially if they get involved in the processing. >Same with candles. Yes, that would be an instructive avenue to fund raising as opposed to the institutionalized popcorn and cookie sales that often involve parents doing the selling of overpriced merchandise to mainly enrich a manufacturer. One would be better off personally and put more into the scout treasuries if one were to make a tax deductible donation. There was, until seven or eight years ago, a BEE KEEPING MERIT BADGE for Boy Scouts, but it was deleted in favor of something more trendy. I lament its passage. Article 28303 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail From: jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab Date: 14 Jan 2001 23:29:23 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 15 Message-ID: <93tcoj$5k7$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: h80ad2285.async.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 979514963 5767 128.173.34.133 (14 Jan 2001 23:29:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2001 23:29:23 GMT X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28303 In article <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov>, edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov says... > > >Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 >The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire >Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last >working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( >4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to >Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the >almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. >-- John This seems such a great shame. What is the rationale? Do you view this as a political decision or one having significant merit, even if sad? Article 28304 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail From: "colum" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee-ginner Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:01:05 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.34.11.167 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 979527436 208.34.11.167 (Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:57:16 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:57:16 CDT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28304 Hi all, I live in the Black Hills of South Dakota and I'm interested in setting up one experimental hive this season to see what happens...if all goes well then more next year. Can any of you old hands give me any pointers on good/mandatory literature to read. Preferred suppliers or ones to stay away from? Any input can only help. Thanks, Colum M. Sorensen Article 28305 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "m12345" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: drawing comb vs. honey crop Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:51:33 +1300 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 17 Message-ID: <93ts6p$je6$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p534-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 979530778 19910 203.173.194.26 (15 Jan 2001 03:52:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:52:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28305 i'm trying to work out a ratio so i can do some calcs for my beekeeping outfit. "old beekeepers" around me seem to use a rule of thumb that u lose one box of honey production for every box of foundation the bees have to draw out ready for filling with honey. seems simple enough & i guess i cld sit 2 hives together (one with drawn comb, one without) & test the theory. but time being of the essence, does anyone have any comments on this rule of thumb? does anyone know of any "scientific" studies that may support/refute the rule, and/or propose another rule? basically i just wanna be sure the rule is true, and if not what is the real sitn. cheers, mark Article 28306 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 4 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 15 Jan 2001 04:31:37 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Hive Beetle Message-ID: <20010114233137.13255.00001218@ng-bd1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28306 I have a question regard the Hive Beetle which is called Aethina Tumida. I have not took the lid off yet to check it out.But, if I do have any Beetle in my hive, Should I burn it up?? Thanks. Tim Article 28307 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:03:16 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3A6292A4.F5AAFAEA@azstarnet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov> <93tcoj$5k7$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 44 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28307 "Jerome R. Long" wrote: > In article <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov>, edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov > says... > > > > > >Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 > >The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire > >Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last > >working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( > >4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to > >Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the > >almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. > >-- John > > This seems such a great shame. What is the rationale? Do you view this as > a political decision or one having significant merit, even if sad? This is what I hear from my sources: The stated plan is to eventually close all USDA bee labs, and transfer all federal honey bee research to Weslaco, Texas (near Brownsville, at the extreme southern end of Texas). The Weslaco lab has had two fully funded bee scientist positions unfilled for the last 6 months to one year. They have remained vacant, even though vigorous efforts have been made to recruit scientists. Beekeepers should be mystified as to the reasons why ARS would close another lab with 4 scientists and two career research technicians, and transfer the positions to the Weslaco lab. Not one of the six federal employees in Tucson intends to transfer, leaving these positions funded and empty at Weslaco. None of the six were offered transfers within the commuting area, as is customary, but only to Weslaco or (early) retirement. All technicians with temporary (two-year) appointments, cooperative work/study students, and college and junior college students (about 10-12 total) will lose their jobs. In addition, the Tucson lab has over 300-400,000 dollars (more than any other bee lab) in outside grants for work on almond pollination, varroa control, private industry cooperation, chalkbrood, and other subjects. Grants also are in effect with the Tohono O'odham (Pima) Tribal Council for student education and small business development on the San Xavier Reservation. These grants will all stop as the lab closes. The lab has been given ten weeks to close, a timetable which is unrealistic. One might ask why this is happening. - Sandra Edwards, Tucson, Arizona Article 28308 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!newsfeed.icl.net!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 15 Jan 2001 18:32:22 GMT References: <20010114233137.13255.00001218@ng-bd1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive Beetle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20010115133222.05334.00000454@ng-cd1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28308 >I have a question regard the Hive Beetle which is called Aethina Tumida. I >have >not took the lid off yet to check it out.But, if I do have any Beetle in my >hive, Should I burn it up?? Thanks Tim, I wouldn't burn it if you find a few beetles, but the management of the problem depends a lot on where you are. If you are along the coastline from Charleston to Florida, they can be a serious problem. But they are present in many other areas, even a few miles inland without being catastrophic. You can get a strip from bee supply places that can be used for beetles, or as an alternative treatment for varroa mites.The are called CheckMite+â„¢ and are available from Mann Lake. Follow the directions carefully: http://mannlakeltd.com/catalog/index.html I would check with others in the area before treating though. In your area it may not be necessary to treat. There seems to be some soil types and some microclimates where the beetle goes wild, whereas in other areas it hardly reproduces. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 28309 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feed.newsreader.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!sac.uu.net!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!not-for-mail From: fromlisablack_2000@atyahoo.com (Liz) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: State Bee Associations Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:12:41 GMT Organization: Navix Internet Subscribers Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3a63292c.1129453@news.alltel.net> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cras77p53.navix.net X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 979579047 17189 216.170.36.55 (15 Jan 2001 17:17:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jan 2001 17:17:27 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28309 Nebraska Beekeepers Association $12 single for the year 8 meetings, swap-meet, State Fair booth, newsletter Please write to me if your club is interested in a newsletter exchange. Also, if you could post the list here or send me a copy I would appreciate it. remove the "from" and "at" to reply On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:48:17 -0500, Dave and Judy wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I posted this request on Bee-L, but I only received 9 responses. Maybe >I can do better here! > >I am attempting to put together a list of each state's bee association, >how much it costs to be a member, and what benefits you receive as a >member. > >I have searched archives, Midnite Bee's site and Bee Culture. None seem >to give the cost of membership. > >If you are a member of a state club, would you forward this info for >your state? > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >Judy in Kentucky > Article 28310 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: knislius4174@takas.lt Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: New! Absolutely Free! XXX Only for adults! http://4sansai.cjb.net 8596 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.59.24.212 Message-ID: <3a61c627@news.takas.lt> Date: 14 Jan 2001 17:30:47 +0200 X-Trace: 14 Jan 2001 17:30:47 +0200, 212.59.24.212 Lines: 3 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.tele.dk!195.161.0.180!newsfeed.rt.ru!news-sto.telia.net!news.takas.lt!212.59.24.212 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28310 NEW!!! ABSOLUTELY FREE!!! XXX ONLY FOR ADULTS!!! http://4sansai.cjb.net byihrheottttgdjitetwgogobutpghghby Article 28311 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 15 Jan 2001 18:34:50 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Bee-ginner Message-ID: <20010115133450.05334.00000455@ng-cd1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28311 >I'm interested in setting up >one experimental hive this season to see what happens... The first and most important pointer is that it is almost always better to start with two hives than one, for reasons that will quickly become apparent as the season progresses. Otherwise, you might run a search of "beekeeper resources" at the page below. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 28313 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!oleane.net!oleane!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!netnews.globalip.ch!news.vtx.ch!not-for-mail From: "Martin-Paul Broennimann" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: bees which get along well in dry areas Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:23:07 +0100 Organization: VTX Services SA Lines: 12 Message-ID: <93vpo9$dbb8@news.vtx.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ge-dial-5-p29.vtx.ch X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28313 I'd like some information on sorts of bees that live well in dry windy country. I am actually thinking of the Cabo Verde Islands. I have seen no beekeeping there and am wondering if there are kinds that could be started there with success. Thanks for any return. -- Best regards... visit our website=> www.broennimann.com mailto=> info@broennimann.com Article 28314 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: NWC Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:05:02 -0500 Lines: 12 Message-ID: <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979592707 12369142 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28314 I am looking for a source of #3 packaged NWC or possible other carnolians near the east coast area that will ship to Ohio. -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html Article 28315 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!skycache.prestige.net!not-for-mail From: "mikebee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> <3a63292c.1129453@news.alltel.net> Subject: Re: State Bee Associations Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <2mL86.8023$vW4.49992@skycache.prestige.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:04:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.112.194.235 X-Complaints-To: administrator@prestige.net X-Trace: skycache.prestige.net 979599870 63.112.194.235 (Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:04:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:04:30 EST Organization: Prestige Communications/ Prestige.Net Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28315 Georgia BeeKeepers Association $20.00 for the year, 2 meetings web site www.gabeekeeping.com several local clubs, I belong to the Cherokee County Beekeepers Club $10.00 per year 11 meetings 3rd Thursday each month. web site www.cherokeebeekeepers.home.att.net Liz wrote in message news:3a63292c.1129453@news.alltel.net... > > Nebraska Beekeepers Association > $12 single for the year > 8 meetings, swap-meet, State Fair booth, newsletter > > Please write to me if your club is interested in a newsletter > exchange. Also, if you could post the list here or send me a copy I > would appreciate it. > > remove the "from" and "at" to reply > > > On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:48:17 -0500, Dave and Judy > wrote: > > >Hi everyone. > > > >I posted this request on Bee-L, but I only received 9 responses. Maybe > >I can do better here! > > > >I am attempting to put together a list of each state's bee association, > >how much it costs to be a member, and what benefits you receive as a > >member. > > > >I have searched archives, Midnite Bee's site and Bee Culture. None seem > >to give the cost of membership. > > > >If you are a member of a state club, would you forward this info for > >your state? > > > >Thanks in advance for any help. > > > >Judy in Kentucky > > > Article 28316 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: i@on.ru Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: FREE http://4sansai.cjb.net 959 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.59.25.170 Message-ID: <3a61e8ed$3@news.takas.lt> Date: 14 Jan 2001 19:59:09 +0200 X-Trace: 14 Jan 2001 19:59:09 +0200, 212.59.25.170 Lines: 3 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!195.54.122.107!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!news000.worldonline.se!news-sto.telia.net!news.takas.lt!212.59.25.170 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28316 http://4sansai.cjb.net xujfosmkmmpdlsecxgyvgsgzkun Article 28317 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail From: "Steven B." Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: State Bee Associations Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:53:16 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9409p6$mrv$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.fc.64.2f X-Server-Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:56:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28317 Judy, Although I am not a member, here is the link to the information for the Tennessee. http://www.tnbeekeepers.org/join.htm Steve > I am attempting to put together a list of each state's bee association, > how much it costs to be a member, and what benefits you receive as a > member. > > I have searched archives, Midnite Bee's site and Bee Culture. None seem > to give the cost of membership. > > If you are a member of a state club, would you forward this info for > your state? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Judy in Kentucky > Article 28318 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Allen Dick" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <93ts6p$je6$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: drawing comb vs. honey crop Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:26:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.184.199.242 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 979612004 161.184.199.242 (Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:26:44 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:26:44 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28318 I think that you don't lose any production if you keep the foundation down to 10% of the combs and there is a good flow. Most bees make wax in a flow and it will be wasted if there is no place to put it -- or they will gum up the hive with ladder and burr comb. Beyond the 10%, there is a cost, but it is hard to reckon. Tests have shown that it takes anywhere from 5 to 20 pounds of sugar to make a pound of wax. The consensus is seven. Of course a pound of wax will make a lot of new comb, especially if there is a good cell wall base on the brand of foundation chosen. allen > i'm trying to work out a ratio so i can do some calcs for my beekeeping > outfit. > > "old beekeepers" around me seem to use a rule of thumb that u lose one box > of honey production for every box of foundation the bees have to draw out... Article 28319 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: RE: WAVE GOODBYE TO TUCSON BEELAB Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:03:52 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3A639DF8.C2D4FE68@azstarnet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 66 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28319 "Jerome R. Long" wrote: > In article <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov>, edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov > says... > > > > > >Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 > >The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire > >Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last > >working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( > >4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to > >Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the > >almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. > >-- John > > This seems such a great shame. What is the rationale? Do you view this as > a political decision or one having significant merit, even if sad? This is what I hear from my sources: The stated plan is to eventually close all USDA bee labs, and transfer all federal honey bee research to Weslaco, Texas (near Brownsville, at the extreme southern end of Texas). The Weslaco lab has had two fully funded bee scientist positions unfilled for the last 6 months to one year. They have remained vacant, even though vigorous efforts have been made to recruit scientists. Beekeepers should be mystified as to the reasons why ARS would close another lab with 4 scientists and two career research technicians, and transfer the positions to the Weslaco lab. Not one of the six federal employees in Tucson intends to transfer, leaving these positions funded and empty at Weslaco. None of the six were offered transfers within the commuting area, as is customary, but only to Weslaco or (early) retirement. All technicians with temporary (two-year) appointments, cooperative work/study students, and college and junior college students (about 10-12 total) will lose their jobs. In addition, the Tucson lab has over 300-400,000 dollars (more than any other bee lab) in outside grants for work on almond pollination, varroa control, private industry cooperation, chalkbrood, and other subjects. Grants also are in effect with the Tohono O'odham (Pima) Tribal Council for student education and small business development on the San Xavier Reservation. These grants will all stop as the lab closes. The lab has been given ten weeks to close, a timetable which is unrealistic. One might ask why this is happening. - Sandra Edwards, Tucson, Arizona Article 28320 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: paul_bilodeau@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Literature Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:35:51 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <940c27$ko7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93uu0l$6pj@news-central.tiac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.16.215 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jan 16 02:35:51 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x63.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 208.161.16.215 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDpaul_bilodeau Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28320 In article <93uu0l$6pj@news-central.tiac.net>, "John E. Hamblin" wrote: > Check this out. http://www.beesource.com/plans/index.htm > > www.beesource.com has some great plans as your link shows, but try checking out the discussion area. It has some great topics and some great information to learn from!! Good Luck, Paul Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28321 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 8 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:59:37 GMT References: <20010115133222.05334.00000454@ng-cd1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Hive Beetle Message-ID: <20010115205937.05325.00000495@ng-cd1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28321 >If you are along the coastline from Charleston to Florida, Ok Dave, As soon it getting warm enough, I will check it out. I live as the center of the Va. I've notice the honey were drip few drop and have not done it aging since. My guess the bees could have cut the cap off while eating some honey for as fuel and lelf the honey running off? Is that possible? Thanks Tim Article 28322 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A62EE66.DE436DDE@suscom-maine.net> From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beeswax wood polish References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:31:04 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:34:46 -0500 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28322 Leif Woodman wrote: > > It is a compination of wax and turpentine. It is best to melt the wax > a little before mixing. > for the exact recipe ask in the rec.woodworking group. > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:27:13 +1100, "Barry Metz" > wrote: > > >can anyone give me a recipe for beeswax wood polish > >thanks one pint boiled linseed oil one quarter pint turpentine 2-3 oz beeswax melt together carefully. There are several recipes. This is one I use. Bill T Article 28323 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail From: jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab Date: 15 Jan 2001 13:41:43 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 53 Message-ID: <93uumn$kc2$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov> <93tcoj$5k7$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3A6292A4.F5AAFAEA@azstarnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: h80ad23ca.async.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 979566103 20866 128.173.35.202 (15 Jan 2001 13:41:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jan 2001 13:41:43 GMT X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28323 In article <3A6292A4.F5AAFAEA@azstarnet.com>, edw1@azstarnet.com says... >"Jerome R. Long" wrote: > >> In article <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov>, edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov >> says... >> >Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 >> >The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire >> >Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last >> >working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( >> >4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to >> >Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the >> >almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. >> >-- John >> >> This seems such a great shame. What is the rationale? Do you view this as >> a political decision or one having significant merit, even if sad? > >This is what I hear from my sources: >The stated plan is to eventually close all USDA bee labs, and transfer all >federal honey bee research to Weslaco, Texas (near Brownsville, at the extreme >southern end of Texas). The Weslaco lab has had two fully funded bee scientist >positions unfilled for the last 6 months to one year. They have remained >vacant, even though vigorous efforts have been made to recruit scientists. >Beekeepers should be mystified as to the reasons why ARS would close another >lab with 4 scientists and two career research technicians, and transfer the >positions to the Weslaco lab. Not one of the six federal employees in Tucson >intends to transfer, leaving these positions funded and empty at Weslaco. None >of the six were offered transfers within the commuting area, as is customary, >but only to Weslaco or (early) retirement. All technicians with temporary >(two-year) appointments, cooperative work/study students, and college and >junior college students (about 10-12 total) will lose their jobs. In addition, >the Tucson lab has over 300-400,000 dollars (more than any other bee lab) in >outside grants for work on almond pollination, varroa control, private industry >cooperation, chalkbrood, and other subjects. Grants also are in effect with the >Tohono O'odham (Pima) Tribal Council for student education and small business >development on the San Xavier Reservation. These grants will all stop as the >lab closes. The lab has been given ten weeks to close, a timetable which is >unrealistic. One might ask why this is happening. > - Sandra Edwards, Tucson, Arizona > Does it not strike you as curious that this decision crosses over federal administrations? Since both Arizona and Texas voted for GWB and the Dems are still in Washington it would not appear to related to the election. However, all but the speaker position in the House majority leadership is from Texas. There may also be interest in punishing Senator McCain for not playing ball with the Republican leadership??????? Article 28324 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer1.tiac.net!posterchild2.tiac.net!news@tiac.net From: "John E. Hamblin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Literature Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:57:22 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 3 Message-ID: <93uu0l$6pj@news-central.tiac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip211.greenville6.sc.pub-ip.psi.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28324 Check this out. http://www.beesource.com/plans/index.htm Article 28325 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer1.tiac.net!posterchild2.tiac.net!news@tiac.net From: "John E. Hamblin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Foundation Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:00:41 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <93uu6s$9nj@news-central.tiac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip211.greenville6.sc.pub-ip.psi.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28325 I've always felt that for every lbs.. of foundation the bee draw out the could make 8 lbs.. of honey. Article 28326 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!209.133.60.2.MISMATCH!localhost!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!news.flash.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A65ACB7.F5C04ADE@epicrealm.com> From: Paul Eckert Organization: EpicRealm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: "Hissing" for bees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:31:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.99.36.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@flash.net X-Trace: news.flash.net 979741889 63.99.36.130 (Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:31:29 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:31:29 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28326 Hello. I am doing some research on a practice apparently done in ancient times by beekeepers in the Middle East (perhaps elsewhere), where the bees can be attracted back to the hive or to a location by "hissing." Several manuscripts in the Oxford library record Egyptian and Assyrian beekeepers being able to "call" bees by making a hissing or whistling noise. This was apparently widely used to attract the bees to a given location. The Bible also mentions this practice in Is 5:26 and 7:18, where God "hisses" to nations and they come to Him like bees or flies. Cyril also mentions that "The metaphor is taken from the practice of those that keep bees, who draw them out of their hives into the fields, and lead them back again, surismasi, by a hiss or a whistle.", as does Theodoret. My question is: Has there been any research into this or are there any studies that have been to identify whether sounds of a particular cadence and/or frequency are capable of attracting bee populations? Does anyone know of any online resources that point to this? I've found plenty of studies of the sounds bees _make_, but none on sounds that can attract them, and this seems odd in the light of ancient practices. Please feel free to post to me either via this newsgroup or at peckert@flash.net. Thanks! Paul Article 28327 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: "Hissing" for bees Message-ID: <3a65da91.8051890@west.usenetserver.com> References: <3A65ACB7.F5C04ADE@epicrealm.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:46:20 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:48:27 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28327 You may find that bees don't have ears. They feel vibration through their feet and antannae but can't hear sound. Unless the sound was loud enough to shake the whole hive, I doubt it worked much better than "banging pans to stop a swarm" IMHO Dave On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:31:29 GMT, Paul Eckert wrote: >Hello. > >I am doing some research on a practice apparently done in ancient times >by beekeepers in the Middle East (perhaps elsewhere), where the bees can >be attracted back to the hive or to a location by "hissing." > >Several manuscripts in the Oxford library record Egyptian and Assyrian >beekeepers being able to "call" bees by making a hissing or whistling >noise. This was apparently widely used to attract the bees to a given >location. > >The Bible also mentions this practice in Is 5:26 and 7:18, where God >"hisses" to nations and they come to Him like bees or flies. > >Cyril also mentions that "The metaphor is taken from the practice of >those that keep bees, who draw them out of their hives into the fields, >and lead them back again, surismasi, by a hiss or a whistle.", as does >Theodoret. > >My question is: > Has there been any research into this or are there any studies that >have been to identify whether sounds of a particular cadence and/or >frequency are capable of attracting bee populations? > Does anyone know of any online resources that point to this? > I've found plenty of studies of the sounds bees _make_, but none on >sounds that can attract them, and this seems odd in the light of ancient >practices. > >Please feel free to post to me either via this newsgroup or at >peckert@flash.net. > >Thanks! > >Paul Article 28328 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!csulb.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: 2smart2late@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: NWC Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:13:37 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.169.101.99 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 17 19:13:37 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x53.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.169.101.99 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUID2smart2late Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28328 In article <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, "BeeFarmer" wrote: > I am looking for a source of #3 packaged NWC or possible other carnolians > near the east coast area that will ship to Ohio. > > -- > BeeFarmer > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > A while back there was a discussion on the NWC,if my memory holds true ,try Ohio State University.{(www.osu.edu)I think this MIGHT get you there}GOOD LUCK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28329 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.206!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: WAVE GOODBYE TO TUCSON BEELAB Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:20:16 -0600 Lines: 31 Message-ID: <4r0c6tcl9vh78j56s0i50mgq7v24ben04g@4ax.com> References: <3A639DF8.C2D4FE68@azstarnet.com> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.206 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979766418 12970453 216.167.138.206 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28329 >One might ask why this is happening. >Sandra Edwards, Tucson, Arizona Military spending? Hate to sound negative, but you know that new anti missile system, the one that won't work, is going to cost a shit load of money, and George promised. Dick's friends, the 'masters of war' have been rubbing their hands together, the game's afoot. Also you know, 'the people have spoken.' On the brighter side, those that will lose their jobs can secure gainful employment among the many 'job openings' within the 'service sector' of our economy. It's true these jobs don't come with free internet connectivity and 'health care,' but they do come with a federally mandated 'minimum wage' (waiters and waitresses excluded) of an amount, it is thought in 'Washington,' adequate to sustain a 'living.' Instead of hanging crepe and saying things like, 'reap the whirlwind' and such, I'll just say, the more people who used to have 'something' have to go without, the faster things for everyone else will improve. Consider your treatment by the USDA to be an enlightening experience. On the darker side, should you, as I see so many, have to line up outside those 'charitable institutions' that have now taken on the 'brunt' of this 'problem' I hope you don't go insane and if you don't, I hope you're able to reflect upon one of the greater 'Clinton Era' moments of bi-partisan co-operation, Welfare Reform. As a note to the above, I see now that Britain plans to 'shift' it's social responsibilities unto these private charitable organizations too. I daresay it won't be as easy to pull off there, as it was here, but I could be wrong. C.K. Article 28330 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!Tele.Dk.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: "Hissing" for bees Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:50:34 +0100 Organization: Posted Courtesy of Tele Danmark or one of its European Subsidiaries Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9453ms$dt9$1@news.inet.tele.dk> References: <3A65ACB7.F5C04ADE@epicrealm.com> <3a65da91.8051890@west.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip5.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 979767836 14249 195.249.242.5 X-Complaints-To: the appropriate department of the poster's provider X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28330 -- "Dave Hamilton" skrev i en meddelelse news:3a65da91.8051890@west.usenetserver.com... > than "banging pans to stop a swarm" I think it was the value of the bees that got people to run after a Swarm yelling and banging. As a rule it was the man who followed the bees that owned them. And to claim the right the noise could be the way. That the bees sometimes settled down in the neighborhood could be coursed by an old quuen leaving the hive. In my apiary it is common that the first swarm settle down in the nearest tree while an afterswarm can get more far away before it settels and then oft in the top of the tree. -- Kind regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software full revised 10-01-2000 now with multiselction and coloring. update the software get : http://apimo.dk/programs/bidata.exe Now chatroom for beekeeping installed. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 28331 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.206!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bees which get along well in dry areas Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:27:11 -0600 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <875c6t876t51putrlmfgkatae05iip4sbf@4ax.com> References: <93vpo9$dbb8@news.vtx.ch> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.206 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979770433 12926948 216.167.138.206 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28331 >sorts of bees that live well in dry windy country. I keep bees in just such a place, however it is not like 'The Cabo Verde Islands' which apparently have palm trees and beaches. Didn't this place used to be the 'Cape Verde Islands?' Why the name change? As their website says: "At less than 6 hours flight from the biggest European Capital, (wrong capitol there unless this is a coded implication inviting off shore accounts) generously touched with the trade wind and the winter swell," Humm...If it's only a 6 hour flight from the 'biggest European capital,' that could be Lagos, Nigeria. By the way, what is the biggest European capitol? Here's the thing, better find out if there are any nectar bearing plants on the 'islands' and fresh water sources. Most honey bees will do well in areas where those conditions prevail. Since you're in a topical setting, I would suggest tropical bees, they're self sufficient, hard workers, and use small comb cell sizes, a known prophylaxis against varroa mites. C.K. Article 28332 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!codeine.org!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!not-for-mail From: "Hugh Kernohan" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bees which get along well in dry areas Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:27:47 -0000 Organization: (Posted via) GTS Netcom. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9459kh$e89$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk> References: <93vpo9$dbb8@news.vtx.ch> <875c6t876t51putrlmfgkatae05iip4sbf@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-26-248.netcomuk.co.uk X-Trace: taliesin2.netcom.net.uk 979773905 14601 194.42.235.248 (17 Jan 2001 23:25:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@corp.netcom.net.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2001 23:25:05 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28332 Minor element of geography - the biggest European capital is London as far as I know ............though no doubt this statement will provoke posts to show that it is Paris or someplace else and we'll get into a haggle about what you count in or out. 6 hours flying from here gets you to all sorts of places SJL Article 28333 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: WAVE GOODBYE TO TUCSON BEELAB Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:46:37 -0700 Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Lines: 3 Message-ID: <3A663CEC.F723FD6B@tucson.ars.ag.gov> References: <3A639DF8.C2D4FE68@azstarnet.com> <4r0c6tcl9vh78j56s0i50mgq7v24ben04g@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: feral-bee.tucson.ars.ag.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28333 You're all heart, Charlie. Article 28334 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.206!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:51:58 -0600 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7s3c6t8tq11a1vpg32uauhed163lla5bc6@4ax.com> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> <3A5CAE7C.CB7A78C8@tucson.ars.ag.gov> <93tcoj$5k7$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3A6292A4.F5AAFAEA@azstarnet.com> <93uumn$kc2$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.206 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979768320 13021502 216.167.138.206 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28334 Jerome R. Long suggest: >There may also be interest in punishing Senator McCain for not playing ball >with the Republican leadership??????? Well you know our venerable leaders are not petty like that..but wait. One might reflect on a bit of history. When Lyndon Johnson was elected by a 'landslide' in 1964 the only county in Texas to not carry Lyndon was Potter county in the Texas Panhandle. There was at the time a SAC (Strategic Air Command) base there that had really become the 'mainstay' for the local economy. Before a year had passed, that base was closed. Of course Amarillo still had the PanTex plant..ever heard of that government installation? As you are likely to hear around these parts, the lord provides. C.K. Article 28335 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: jduncan57@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: How much pollen substitute? Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:37:32 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <945ktc$53j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.87.209.130 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 18 02:37:32 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x72.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 12.87.209.130 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDjduncan57 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28335 I am a beginner in western Pennsylvania. I started with two feral hives late last year. Each occupies two mediums. To get them up to full strength I was going to feed pollen substitute along with the sugar feeding soon. How much can I expect them to consume in the next 2-3 months? I was going to purchase the brood builder, moist patties listed in Daddant. They are sold in 5# and 25# bags. Thanks for any advise. John Duncan Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28336 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!cyclone3.rdc-detw.rr.com!news3.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Christopher Hadden" Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,alt.hobbies.beekeeping Subject: OT: RFD: rec.crafts.meadmaking Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:10:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.160.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 979798257 24.163.160.238 (Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:10:57 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:10:57 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu rec.food.historic:24057 rec.org.sca:312489 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28336 alt.hobbies.beekeeping:235 We are proposing a new Usenet newsgroup devoted to meadmaking. You can find our formal Request for Discussion (RFD) in news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.crafts.winemaking and rec.crafts.brewing. Discussion of the proposal takes place in the group news.groups. If you are interested in the topic, we encourage you to participate in the discussion. We ask for your support of this initiative. We've been advised by a Usenet volunteer that substantive comments are far more useful to the future success of the proposal than simple comments that say "I would use this group." We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Christopher Hadden , Proponent Shane Hultquist , Proponent Article 28337 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!news.netins.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!cyclone3.rdc-detw.rr.com!news3.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Christopher Hadden" Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,alt.hobbies.beekeeping References: Subject: Re: RFD: rec.crafts.meadmaking Lines: 10 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:28:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.160.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 979799317 24.163.160.238 (Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:28:37 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:28:37 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu rec.food.historic:24059 rec.org.sca:312490 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28337 alt.hobbies.beekeeping:236 Because the RFD is being posted to the moderated newsgroup, news.announce.newgroups, it may take a day or two to be posted. I know there are a lot of supporters for this group here so I thought I'd let you be among the first to know and send the announcement as soon as I sent the RFD. Christopher Hadden Article 28338 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: How much pollen substitute? Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:31:32 -0500 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <946nn6$c11ag$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <945ktc$53j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979821095 12617040 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28338 Two hives? Five pounds will go a long way with them! If all goes well you will only feed them prior to the spring pollen coming on in your area. Five pounds should go far for 2 hives. BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html wrote in message news:945ktc$53j$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I am a beginner in western Pennsylvania. I started with two feral hives > late last year. Each occupies two mediums. To get them up to full > strength I was going to feed pollen substitute along with the sugar > feeding soon. How much can I expect them to consume in the next 2-3 > months? I was going to purchase the brood builder, moist patties listed > in Daddant. They are sold in 5# and 25# bags. Thanks for any advise. > > John Duncan > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28339 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: NWC Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:33:28 -0500 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <946nqq$cg1e7$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> <944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979821211 13108679 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28339 That's a great idea. I have seen queens for sell but not packages. I will check this out. Thanks. -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html <2smart2late@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, > "BeeFarmer" wrote: > > I am looking for a source of #3 packaged NWC or possible other > carnolians > > near the east coast area that will ship to Ohio. > > > > -- > > BeeFarmer > > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > > > A while back there was a discussion on the NWC,if my memory holds > true ,try Ohio State University.{(www.osu.edu)I think this MIGHT get > you there}GOOD LUCK > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28340 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: 2smart2late@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: NWC Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:27:48 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 44 Message-ID: <946ugp$536$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> <944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <946nqq$cg1e7$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.169.101.106 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 18 14:27:48 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x65.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.169.101.106 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUID2smart2late Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28340 I found this and you might look into it ; www.beesource.com/suppliers/usbees.htm In article <946nqq$cg1e7$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, "BeeFarmer" wrote: > That's a great idea. I have seen queens for sell but not packages. I will > check this out. > > Thanks. > > -- > BeeFarmer > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > <2smart2late@my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > In article <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, > > "BeeFarmer" wrote: > > > I am looking for a source of #3 packaged NWC or possible other > > carnolians > > > near the east coast area that will ship to Ohio. > > > > > > -- > > > BeeFarmer > > > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > > > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > > > > > A while back there was a discussion on the NWC,if my memory holds > > true ,try Ohio State University.{(www.osu.edu)I think this MIGHT get > > you there}GOOD LUCK > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com > > http://www.deja.com/ > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28341 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uunet!sea.uu.net!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!not-for-mail From: lisablack_2000@yahoo.yahoo.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Recipe for lip balm Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:15:49 GMT Organization: Navix Internet Subscribers Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3a66fe8b.3209011@news.alltel.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cras58p71.navix.net X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 979832586 14889 205.240.115.73 (18 Jan 2001 15:43:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jan 2001 15:43:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28341 On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:18:14 -0600, "Nancy W" wrote: >Does anyone have a really good lip balm recipe for beeswax? How about hand >creams, etc.? > >Thanks. > > I found this with a Yahoo search. http://www.seedman.com/Rachel/lipbalm.htm Have not tried it yet, let me know if you do. I haven't any wax yet. Liz (remove the spam and the extra Yahoo to reply) Article 28342 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.flash.net!news.flash.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A67110A.56CD8D23@epicrealm.com> From: Paul Eckert Organization: EpicRealm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: "Hissing" for bees References: <3A65ACB7.F5C04ADE@epicrealm.com> <3a65da91.8051890@west.usenetserver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 75 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:51:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.99.36.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@flash.net X-Trace: news.flash.net 979833101 63.99.36.130 (Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:51:41 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:51:41 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28342 Dave Hamilton wrote: > > You may find that bees don't have ears. They feel vibration through > their feet and antannae but can't hear sound. Unless the sound was > loud enough to shake the whole hive, I doubt it worked much better > than "banging pans to stop a swarm" But then, surely the ancients must have been referring to _something_... I can't imagine, however, several cultures each independently coming up with a shared myth about whistling for bees. I see by searches on the net that there's a fair amount of uncertainty about whether bees "hear" or not, and whether the plates on their antennae or the pads on their feet are sensitive enough to "hear" vibrations in the air. As you point out, it certainly won't be thru ears they don't have, but I wonder whether anyone has heard of any research into using airborne sounds to see if bees respond to them. Thanks for your take on this, Dave. Paul > > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:31:29 GMT, Paul Eckert > wrote: > > >Hello. > > > >I am doing some research on a practice apparently done in ancient times > >by beekeepers in the Middle East (perhaps elsewhere), where the bees can > >be attracted back to the hive or to a location by "hissing." > > > >Several manuscripts in the Oxford library record Egyptian and Assyrian > >beekeepers being able to "call" bees by making a hissing or whistling > >noise. This was apparently widely used to attract the bees to a given > >location. > > > >The Bible also mentions this practice in Is 5:26 and 7:18, where God > >"hisses" to nations and they come to Him like bees or flies. > > > >Cyril also mentions that "The metaphor is taken from the practice of > >those that keep bees, who draw them out of their hives into the fields, > >and lead them back again, surismasi, by a hiss or a whistle.", as does > >Theodoret. > > > >My question is: > > Has there been any research into this or are there any studies that > >have been to identify whether sounds of a particular cadence and/or > >frequency are capable of attracting bee populations? > > Does anyone know of any online resources that point to this? > > I've found plenty of studies of the sounds bees _make_, but none on > >sounds that can attract them, and this seems odd in the light of ancient > >practices. > > > >Please feel free to post to me either via this newsgroup or at > >peckert@flash.net. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Paul -- Paul Eckert Sr. Software Engineer epicRealm Inc. Palisades Central II 2435 N. Central Expressway, Richardson, Texas 75080 (214) 570.4568 (214) 570.4520 fax Article 28343 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "J&DC" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <93vpo9$dbb8@news.vtx.ch> <875c6t876t51putrlmfgkatae05iip4sbf@4ax.com> <9459kh$e89$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk> Subject: Re: bees which get along well in dry areas Lines: 9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:06:34 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-vzVVVAXzvYETkGA+JMTy/T2cqtsOfNbKCKtYWqDFcRPIKt1jbq6jfeXFz2VB26aGh/C600q7rBoaXtO!pTG/idBOfkm/l6v8mkUCaLDYn6skug== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:06:34 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28343 6 hours flying from here gets you to all sorts of places > > SJL > Depending on how fast you fly. : ) Article 28344 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: NWC Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:42:45 -0500 Lines: 60 Message-ID: <947kgd$cqp36$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> <944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <946nqq$cg1e7$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> <946ugp$536$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979850574 13460582 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28344 Thanks, I checked that out and several other sources although finding NWC in the SE area has been a trick. Thanks! -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html <2smart2late@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:946ugp$536$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I found this and you might look into it ; > www.beesource.com/suppliers/usbees.htm > > > > In article <946nqq$cg1e7$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, > "BeeFarmer" wrote: > > That's a great idea. I have seen queens for sell but not packages. > I will > > check this out. > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > > BeeFarmer > > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > > > <2smart2late@my-deja.com> wrote in message > > news:944qsp$co0$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > > In article <93vom3$bpf7m$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, > > > "BeeFarmer" wrote: > > > > I am looking for a source of #3 packaged NWC or possible other > > > carnolians > > > > near the east coast area that will ship to Ohio. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > BeeFarmer > > > > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > > > > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > > > > > > > A while back there was a discussion on the NWC,if my memory holds > > > true ,try Ohio State University.{(www.osu.edu)I think this MIGHT get > > > you there}GOOD LUCK > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com > > > http://www.deja.com/ > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28345 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: State Bee Associations Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:28:38 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: <947qm8$u5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.12.104.54 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jan 18 22:28:38 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x59.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 64.12.104.54 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28345 In article <3A5A9811.EBE39F6C@fuse.net>, Dave and Judy wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I posted this request on Bee-L, but I only received 9 responses. Maybe > I can do better here! > > I am attempting to put together a list of each state's bee association, > how much it costs to be a member, and what benefits you receive as a > member. >... > Judy in Kentucky $10 per year for local and $15 for state in Florida. Here are addresses: State assoc: http://www.flareal.com/fsba.htm Local Assoc: http://www.flareal.com/fsbalocal.htm Sincerely, Herb NW FLA Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28346 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 3 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bluetaz37@aol.com (Blue Taz37) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 18 Jan 2001 23:07:47 GMT References: <946nn6$c11ag$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: How much pollen substitute? Message-ID: <20010118180747.04692.00000083@ng-mp1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28346 I was told 5 lbs. will last Three yr. for 3 to 5 hive. Use only when pollen is not available. Tim Article 28347 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.143.2!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: beehoo.com / Environmental stand Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:43:06 -0600 Lines: 177 Message-ID: Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.143.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979868590 13447544 216.167.143.2 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28347 This from the net-happenings newsgroup. >"Beehoo is the first beekeeping directory. More than 1000 beekeeping websites. > All what you need about bees, beekeeping, apitherapy, pollen , bee biology, > hive products, in english and french." http://www.beehoo.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ American Beekeepers, take a stand, if you don't care about the environment there's something wrong with your head. The corporate special interest have achieved their goal of getting their man to Washington, (I say conspiratorial and illegally, but we have a tradition of this, so it isn't very shocking) and now it's payback time for all those millions in bribes. However, that doesn't mean the fighting is over, it's just beginning. Regardless of what party member represents your district, keep letting them know that you will not approve of any 'economic' decisions at the expense of the environment, especially air, water, and food quality and the commercial exploitation of (any) wilderness areas. Now the news: =================================== LCV’s Weekly Congressional Update Week of January 14, 2001 =================================== The League of Conservation Voters (LCV) continues to monitor Congressional activity and hold Members accountable for their action on important environmental issues. See the information below for a concise look at what happened in Congress last week and what we anticipate for the coming week. =================================== SUMMARY =================================== In what will be a pivotal week for the future of environmental policy and protection in the United States, Senate hearings are to take place on President-elect Bush’s cabinet nominees for Interior, Energy and Agriculture. In addition, hearings took place on Wednesday 17th for New Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for the post of EPA Administrator. Here’s the latest news on the hearings and information about each nominee. =================================== **Presidential Appointments** =================================== **One of the most controversial cabinet nominees is Gale Norton for the Secretary of Interior. Hearings will be held by the Senate Energy & Natural Resources Committee. LCV is strongly opposed to this nomination. Along with a coalition of other national environmental organizations, LCV is engaged in a nationwide campaign to educate voters about the danger of putting Gale Norton in charge of 500 million acres of federal land, containing endangered species and pristine national parks. You can learn more about the campaign and Gale Norton’s record by clicking www.saynotonorton.org . Norton worked under former Reagan Interior Secretary James Watt at the Mountain States Legal Foundation in Denver, a group that advocates conservative approaches to environmental issues and “takings” of property. Norton served for two terms as Colorado’s attorney general from 1991 to 1999. While she has said she is proud of her efforts to clean up contaminated sites in Colorado, including the former Rocky Mountain Arsenal and Rocky Flats, a former nuclear weapons site, environmentalists note she was also instrumental in creating the state’s "self audit" program, which allows companies to conduct voluntary audits to determine if they are in compliance with environmental laws. Colorado’s law gives companies immunity from litigation and fines if they report and correct the violations. Environmentalists oppose this type of program, calling it a "get out of jail free" card for polluters. In addition to serving as Colorado attorney general, Norton has served on the board of Defenders of Property Rights, a group that advocates compensation of property owners whose land is subject to environmental regulation. She is also a former co-chair of the Coalition of Republican Environmental Advocates (CREA), an industry-funded front group whose members include such anti-environment elected officials as former Representative Chenoweth-Hage and House Resources Committee Chairman Don Young. Hearings will be held on Thursday, January 18th at 2:30pm. If necessary, the committee will reconvene at 9:00am on Friday January 19th. C-Span will be covering the Norton hearings in their entirety both on their website at www.cspan.org and on their cable television station. Live webcasts can also be viewed at www.energy.senate.gov **The Senate Energy & Natural Resources Committee will hold hearings on the nomination of former Michigan Senator Spencer Abraham for the post of Secretary of Energy. LCV is opposed to this nomination. Abraham was one of LCV’s “Dirty Dozen” during the 2000 elections and was defeated largely because of his extreme anti-environment record. He has voted against higher fuel efficiency standards, to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and has even sponsored legislation to abolish the Department of Energy that he now hopes to lead. Additional information on Spencer Abraham’s record can be found at www.lcv.org . The hearing is scheduled for 9:00am on Thursday, January 18th. Live webcasts will be shown at www.cspan.org and the Senate Energy Committee website at www.energy.senate.gov **The Senate Agriculture Committee will hold hearings on the nomination of Ann Veneman to be Secretary of Agriculture. Veneman’s confirmation is expected to proceed without a hitch. She has received praise from a range of stakeholders in agricultural policy. As USDA secretary, Veneman will hold a key role in shaping the 2002 Farm Bill, which will include reauthorization of a host of conservation programs, making the upcoming Farm Bill one of the most important environmental measures likely to be passed by the 107th Congress. She will also be responsible for the U.S. Forest Service. Hearings are scheduled for Thursday, January 18th at 9:00am. **The Senate Environment & Public Works Committee held hearings on the nomination of New Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Gov. Whitman has received mixed reviews from environmentalists. She is credited with making significant progress on protecting coastlines and reducing the number of beach closures due to pollution. Environmentalists have hailed Gov. Whitman for her work to protect open space in one of the most heavily developed states in the nation. However, she has also come under fierce criticism by some local environmentalists for what they consider lax pollution enforcement actions taken by her office and for the drastic cuts she made in the state’s environmental protection budget. While Governor of New Jersey, Whitman sought voluntary compliance with pollution laws rather than strict enforcement. For more information on Christie Todd Whitman, go to www.lcv.org and click on ‘Eye on the Administration’. At the hearings held on Wednesday, Senators asked Gov. Whitman pointed questions about her positions on environmental protection. During her testimony, Whitman emphasized that environmental regulations must take into account their impact on the U.S. economy. "No longer do we debate about whether we need to protect our environment. Instead we discuss how we can keep America green while keeping our economy growing," she said. Sen. Robert Torricelli, D-New Jersey, labeled her prospective nomination as a "very wise selection". He noted that New Jersey developed one of the nation's best coastal management programs under her tenure, as well as a model plan to clean up toxic "brownfield" sites. For more information click www.cnn.com/allpolitics/ . The hearing took place at 9:30am on Wednesday, January 17th. C-Span has taped the hearing and will be airing it at a time to be announced. To check the television schedule got to www.cspan.org . =================================================================== LCV's Weekly Congressional Update is compiled using various sources, including Congressional Quarterly and Congressional GreenSheets. LCV-Update is brought to you by the League of Conservation Voters, the nonprofit political voice for the national environmental and conservation community. LCV is the only national organization dedicated full-time to informing the public about the environmental records of federally elected officials and candidates. LCV publishes annually the National Environmental Scorecard, which rates members of Congress on the most critical environmental votes cast during that year. If you would like to sign up to receive your own updates, send the following command in email to: lyris@client-mail.com subscribe lcv-update C.K. Article 28348 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net> From: Chad Howell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {GTE Internetworking} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Electric wire embedder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 4 X-Trace: +q1n6bnwMjO8/ce10/S2GTmFTfVyf3BhMdjR3LBQy3ZarJN9G/ayjFg6qOu66Y6wGC1CwvbGMK8A!d/XKRMkKIGG901hhtWEpkD0SQg9IubqdE7C34B+j6DR8W2hndv2gVOOlxeE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:39:14 GMT Distribution: world Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:39:14 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28348 Where can a guy buy an electric wire embedder? I'd like to get one like the one Richard Taylor had in a past issue of Bee Culture. If not available than can one be homemade? Article 28349 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!209.68.192.203!ragnarok.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail From: "Dave" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Electric wire embedder Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:05:56 -0800 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Lines: 14 Message-ID: <948hi0$cih$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cts20421625592.cts.com X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 979880321 12881 204.216.255.92 (19 Jan 2001 04:58:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:58:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28349 I heard (but have never tried) that old model train "transformers?" work well. They allow you to regulate the amount of current you are sending. You may want to try it. Dave "Chad Howell" wrote in message news:3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net... > Where can a guy buy an electric wire embedder? I'd like to get one like > the one Richard Taylor had in a past issue of Bee Culture. If not > available than can one be homemade? > Article 28350 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "No1" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: Subject: Re: beehoo.com / Environmental stand Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:26:20 -0600 Lines: 201 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: p131.amax48.dialup.hou1.flash.net Message-ID: <3a68788c_2@newsa.ev1.net> X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 979925132 p131.amax48.dialup.hou1.flash.net (19 Jan 2001 11:25:32 -0600) X-Authenticated-User: cudd Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!208.184.7.66!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28350 Excuse me but.... which administration recently burned thousands of acres of forest around nuclear labs that happened to be leaking secrets to China? Dubya was my governor and he is a good man. Somebody with principles and morals for a change!!!!! Robert Charlie Kroeger wrote in message news:mj6f6tc25ctlu9rh1mqe4pun8dr5h55p79@4ax.com... > This from the net-happenings newsgroup. > > >"Beehoo is the first beekeeping directory. More than 1000 beekeeping websites. > > All what you need about bees, beekeeping, apitherapy, pollen , bee biology, > > hive products, in english and french." > > http://www.beehoo.com/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > American Beekeepers, take a stand, if you don't care about the environment > there's something wrong with your head. The corporate special interest have > achieved their goal of getting their man to Washington, (I say conspiratorial > and illegally, but we have a tradition of this, so it isn't very shocking) and > now it's payback time for all those millions in bribes. However, that doesn't > mean the fighting is over, it's just beginning. > > Regardless of what party member represents your district, keep letting them > know that you will not approve of any 'economic' decisions at the expense of > the environment, especially air, water, and food quality and the commercial > exploitation of (any) wilderness areas. > > Now the news: > > =================================== > LCV's Weekly Congressional Update > Week of January 14, 2001 > =================================== > > The League of Conservation Voters (LCV) continues to monitor Congressional > activity and hold Members accountable for their action on important > environmental issues. See the information below for a concise look at what > happened in Congress last week and what we anticipate for the coming week. > > =================================== > SUMMARY > =================================== > In what will be a pivotal week for the future of environmental policy and > protection in the United States, Senate hearings are to take place on > President-elect Bush's cabinet nominees for Interior, Energy and > Agriculture. In addition, hearings took place on Wednesday 17th for New > Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for the post of EPA Administrator. > Here's the latest news on the hearings and information about each nominee. > > =================================== > **Presidential Appointments** > =================================== > **One of the most controversial cabinet nominees is Gale Norton for the > Secretary of Interior. Hearings will be held by the Senate Energy & > Natural Resources Committee. > > LCV is strongly opposed to this nomination. Along with a coalition of > other national environmental organizations, LCV is engaged in a nationwide > campaign to educate voters about the danger of putting Gale Norton in > charge of 500 million acres of federal land, containing endangered species > and pristine national parks. You can learn more about the campaign and > Gale Norton's record by clicking www.saynotonorton.org . > > Norton worked under former Reagan Interior Secretary James Watt at the > Mountain States Legal Foundation in Denver, a group that advocates > conservative approaches to environmental issues and "takings" of property. > > Norton served for two terms as Colorado's attorney general from 1991 to > 1999. While she has said she is proud of her efforts to clean up > contaminated sites in Colorado, including the former Rocky Mountain > Arsenal and Rocky Flats, a former nuclear weapons site, environmentalists > note she was also instrumental in creating the state's "self audit" > program, which allows companies to conduct voluntary audits to determine > if they are in compliance with environmental laws. Colorado's law gives > companies immunity from litigation and fines if they report and correct > the violations. Environmentalists oppose this type of program, calling it > a "get out of jail free" card for polluters. > > In addition to serving as Colorado attorney general, Norton has served on > the board of Defenders of Property Rights, a group that advocates > compensation of property owners whose land is subject to environmental > regulation. She is also a former co-chair of the Coalition of Republican > Environmental Advocates (CREA), an industry-funded front group whose > members include such anti-environment elected officials as former > Representative Chenoweth-Hage and House Resources Committee Chairman Don > Young. > > Hearings will be held on Thursday, January 18th at 2:30pm. If necessary, > the committee will reconvene at 9:00am on Friday January 19th. C-Span will > be covering the Norton hearings in their entirety both on their website at > www.cspan.org and on their cable television station. Live webcasts can > also be viewed at www.energy.senate.gov > > **The Senate Energy & Natural Resources Committee will hold hearings on > the nomination of former Michigan Senator Spencer Abraham for the post of > Secretary of Energy. > > LCV is opposed to this nomination. Abraham was one of LCV's "Dirty Dozen" > during the 2000 elections and was defeated largely because of his extreme > anti-environment record. He has voted against higher fuel efficiency > standards, to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and > has even sponsored legislation to abolish the Department of Energy that he > now hopes to lead. Additional information on Spencer Abraham's record can > be found at www.lcv.org . > > The hearing is scheduled for 9:00am on Thursday, January 18th. Live > webcasts will be shown at www.cspan.org and the Senate Energy Committee > website at www.energy.senate.gov > > **The Senate Agriculture Committee will hold hearings on the nomination of > Ann Veneman to be Secretary of Agriculture. > > Veneman's confirmation is expected to proceed without a hitch. She has > received praise from a range of stakeholders in agricultural policy. As > USDA secretary, Veneman will hold a key role in shaping the 2002 Farm > Bill, which will include reauthorization of a host of conservation > programs, making the upcoming Farm Bill one of the most important > environmental measures likely to be passed by the 107th Congress. She will > also be responsible for the U.S. Forest Service. > > Hearings are scheduled for Thursday, January 18th at 9:00am. > > **The Senate Environment & Public Works Committee held hearings on the > nomination of New Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for Administrator of > the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). > > Gov. Whitman has received mixed reviews from environmentalists. She is > credited with making significant progress on protecting coastlines and > reducing the number of beach closures due to pollution. Environmentalists > have hailed Gov. Whitman for her work to protect open space in one of the > most heavily developed states in the nation. > > However, she has also come under fierce criticism by some local > environmentalists for what they consider lax pollution enforcement actions > taken by her office and for the drastic cuts she made in the state's > environmental protection budget. While Governor of New Jersey, Whitman > sought voluntary compliance with pollution laws rather than strict > enforcement. For more information on Christie Todd Whitman, go to > www.lcv.org and click on 'Eye on the Administration'. > > At the hearings held on Wednesday, Senators asked Gov. Whitman pointed > questions about her positions on environmental protection. During her > testimony, Whitman emphasized that environmental regulations must take > into account their impact on the U.S. economy. > > "No longer do we debate about whether we need to protect our environment. > Instead we discuss how we can keep America green while keeping our economy > growing," she said. > > Sen. Robert Torricelli, D-New Jersey, labeled her prospective nomination > as a "very wise selection". He noted that New Jersey developed one of the > nation's best coastal management programs under her tenure, as well as a > model plan to clean up toxic "brownfield" sites. For more information > click www.cnn.com/allpolitics/ . > > The hearing took place at 9:30am on Wednesday, January 17th. C-Span has > taped the hearing and will be airing it at a time to be announced. To > check the television schedule got to www.cspan.org . > > =================================================================== > LCV's Weekly Congressional Update is compiled using various sources, > including Congressional Quarterly and Congressional GreenSheets. > LCV-Update is brought to you by the League of Conservation Voters, the > nonprofit political voice for the national environmental and conservation > community. LCV is the only national organization dedicated full-time to > informing the public about the environmental records of federally elected > officials and candidates. > > LCV publishes annually the National Environmental Scorecard, which rates > members of Congress on the most critical environmental votes cast during > that year. > > > If you would like to sign up to receive your own updates, send the following > command in email to: > lyris@client-mail.com > > subscribe lcv-update > > > C.K. > Article 28351 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Electric wire embedder Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:52:18 -0500 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <949da6$cj532$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979908742 13210722 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28351 Dadant sells one that you hook to a low power source. I just use a trickle charger and touch the both nails with the hot and ground leads and keep an eye on the wire so it doesn't get to hot a break. -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html "Chad Howell" wrote in message news:3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net... > Where can a guy buy an electric wire embedder? I'd like to get one like > the one Richard Taylor had in a past issue of Bee Culture. If not > available than can one be homemade? > Article 28352 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!not-for-mail From: "Barry Metz" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net> <948hi0$cih$1@thoth.cts.com> Subject: Re: Electric wire embedder Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:06:43 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.215.13.148 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 979899060 210.215.13.148 (Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:11:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:11:00 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:11:00 EST (news.interact.net.au) Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28352 I use an old 12volt car battery as my source of electricity. The embedder is just a wooden handle just longer then the frame is wide with four copper prongs coming down from it, there are two switches for the current to the prongs:- 1) puts current through the four prongs and 2) puts current through the two inner prongs, if anyone is interested I'll post a drawing Barry Metz Junee, NSW Australia "Dave" wrote in message news:948hi0$cih$1@thoth.cts.com... > I heard (but have never tried) that old model train "transformers?" work > well. They allow you to regulate the amount of current you are sending. > You may want to try it. > > Dave > > "Chad Howell" wrote in message > news:3A67B70B.BF5A557E@gte.net... > > Where can a guy buy an electric wire embedder? I'd like to get one like > > the one Richard Taylor had in a past issue of Bee Culture. If not > > available than can one be homemade? > > > > Article 28353 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!24.0.0.38!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!newsfeeder.randori.com!news.randori.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A688125.4D1CA262@theglobe.com> From: Ripon X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: beehoo.com / Environmental stand References: <3a68788c_2@newsa.ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 212 Organization: Randori News Inc. -- http://www.randori.com -- Fast! Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:02:13 -0800 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28353 Well said! Dubya's cabinet selections are fantastic. He's assembled some of the best and brightest the country has to offer. (Powell, Rice, and especially Ashcroft to name a few) For the first time in eight years I'm actually optimistic about the direction of my country. Just my $.02 Ripon Beekeeper wannabee No1 wrote: > > Excuse me but.... which administration recently burned thousands of acres of > forest around nuclear labs that happened to be leaking secrets to China? > > Dubya was my governor and he is a good man. Somebody with principles and > morals for a change!!!!! > > Robert > > Charlie Kroeger wrote in message > news:mj6f6tc25ctlu9rh1mqe4pun8dr5h55p79@4ax.com... > > This from the net-happenings newsgroup. > > > > >"Beehoo is the first beekeeping directory. More than 1000 beekeeping > websites. > > > All what you need about bees, beekeeping, apitherapy, pollen , bee > biology, > > > hive products, in english and french." > > > > http://www.beehoo.com/ > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > American Beekeepers, take a stand, if you don't care about the environment > > there's something wrong with your head. The corporate special interest > have > > achieved their goal of getting their man to Washington, (I say > conspiratorial > > and illegally, but we have a tradition of this, so it isn't very shocking) > and > > now it's payback time for all those millions in bribes. However, that > doesn't > > mean the fighting is over, it's just beginning. > > > > Regardless of what party member represents your district, keep letting > them > > know that you will not approve of any 'economic' decisions at the expense > of > > the environment, especially air, water, and food quality and the > commercial > > exploitation of (any) wilderness areas. > > > > Now the news: > > > > =================================== > > LCV's Weekly Congressional Update > > Week of January 14, 2001 > > =================================== > > > > The League of Conservation Voters (LCV) continues to monitor Congressional > > activity and hold Members accountable for their action on important > > environmental issues. See the information below for a concise look at what > > happened in Congress last week and what we anticipate for the coming week. > > > > =================================== > > SUMMARY > > =================================== > > In what will be a pivotal week for the future of environmental policy and > > protection in the United States, Senate hearings are to take place on > > President-elect Bush's cabinet nominees for Interior, Energy and > > Agriculture. In addition, hearings took place on Wednesday 17th for New > > Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for the post of EPA Administrator. > > Here's the latest news on the hearings and information about each nominee. > > > > =================================== > > **Presidential Appointments** > > =================================== > > **One of the most controversial cabinet nominees is Gale Norton for the > > Secretary of Interior. Hearings will be held by the Senate Energy & > > Natural Resources Committee. > > > > LCV is strongly opposed to this nomination. Along with a coalition of > > other national environmental organizations, LCV is engaged in a nationwide > > campaign to educate voters about the danger of putting Gale Norton in > > charge of 500 million acres of federal land, containing endangered species > > and pristine national parks. You can learn more about the campaign and > > Gale Norton's record by clicking www.saynotonorton.org . > > > > Norton worked under former Reagan Interior Secretary James Watt at the > > Mountain States Legal Foundation in Denver, a group that advocates > > conservative approaches to environmental issues and "takings" of property. > > > > Norton served for two terms as Colorado's attorney general from 1991 to > > 1999. While she has said she is proud of her efforts to clean up > > contaminated sites in Colorado, including the former Rocky Mountain > > Arsenal and Rocky Flats, a former nuclear weapons site, environmentalists > > note she was also instrumental in creating the state's "self audit" > > program, which allows companies to conduct voluntary audits to determine > > if they are in compliance with environmental laws. Colorado's law gives > > companies immunity from litigation and fines if they report and correct > > the violations. Environmentalists oppose this type of program, calling it > > a "get out of jail free" card for polluters. > > > > In addition to serving as Colorado attorney general, Norton has served on > > the board of Defenders of Property Rights, a group that advocates > > compensation of property owners whose land is subject to environmental > > regulation. She is also a former co-chair of the Coalition of Republican > > Environmental Advocates (CREA), an industry-funded front group whose > > members include such anti-environment elected officials as former > > Representative Chenoweth-Hage and House Resources Committee Chairman Don > > Young. > > > > Hearings will be held on Thursday, January 18th at 2:30pm. If necessary, > > the committee will reconvene at 9:00am on Friday January 19th. C-Span will > > be covering the Norton hearings in their entirety both on their website at > > www.cspan.org and on their cable television station. Live webcasts can > > also be viewed at www.energy.senate.gov > > > > **The Senate Energy & Natural Resources Committee will hold hearings on > > the nomination of former Michigan Senator Spencer Abraham for the post of > > Secretary of Energy. > > > > LCV is opposed to this nomination. Abraham was one of LCV's "Dirty Dozen" > > during the 2000 elections and was defeated largely because of his extreme > > anti-environment record. He has voted against higher fuel efficiency > > standards, to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and > > has even sponsored legislation to abolish the Department of Energy that he > > now hopes to lead. Additional information on Spencer Abraham's record can > > be found at www.lcv.org . > > > > The hearing is scheduled for 9:00am on Thursday, January 18th. Live > > webcasts will be shown at www.cspan.org and the Senate Energy Committee > > website at www.energy.senate.gov > > > > **The Senate Agriculture Committee will hold hearings on the nomination of > > Ann Veneman to be Secretary of Agriculture. > > > > Veneman's confirmation is expected to proceed without a hitch. She has > > received praise from a range of stakeholders in agricultural policy. As > > USDA secretary, Veneman will hold a key role in shaping the 2002 Farm > > Bill, which will include reauthorization of a host of conservation > > programs, making the upcoming Farm Bill one of the most important > > environmental measures likely to be passed by the 107th Congress. She will > > also be responsible for the U.S. Forest Service. > > > > Hearings are scheduled for Thursday, January 18th at 9:00am. > > > > **The Senate Environment & Public Works Committee held hearings on the > > nomination of New Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman for Administrator of > > the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). > > > > Gov. Whitman has received mixed reviews from environmentalists. She is > > credited with making significant progress on protecting coastlines and > > reducing the number of beach closures due to pollution. Environmentalists > > have hailed Gov. Whitman for her work to protect open space in one of the > > most heavily developed states in the nation. > > > > However, she has also come under fierce criticism by some local > > environmentalists for what they consider lax pollution enforcement actions > > taken by her office and for the drastic cuts she made in the state's > > environmental protection budget. While Governor of New Jersey, Whitman > > sought voluntary compliance with pollution laws rather than strict > > enforcement. For more information on Christie Todd Whitman, go to > > www.lcv.org and click on 'Eye on the Administration'. > > > > At the hearings held on Wednesday, Senators asked Gov. Whitman pointed > > questions about her positions on environmental protection. During her > > testimony, Whitman emphasized that environmental regulations must take > > into account their impact on the U.S. economy. > > > > "No longer do we debate about whether we need to protect our environment. > > Instead we discuss how we can keep America green while keeping our economy > > growing," she said. > > > > Sen. Robert Torricelli, D-New Jersey, labeled her prospective nomination > > as a "very wise selection". He noted that New Jersey developed one of the > > nation's best coastal management programs under her tenure, as well as a > > model plan to clean up toxic "brownfield" sites. For more information > > click www.cnn.com/allpolitics/ . > > > > The hearing took place at 9:30am on Wednesday, January 17th. C-Span has > > taped the hearing and will be airing it at a time to be announced. To > > check the television schedule got to www.cspan.org . > > > > =================================================================== > > LCV's Weekly Congressional Update is compiled using various sources, > > including Congressional Quarterly and Congressional GreenSheets. > > LCV-Update is brought to you by the League of Conservation Voters, the > > nonprofit political voice for the national environmental and conservation > > community. LCV is the only national organization dedicated full-time to > > informing the public about the environmental records of federally elected > > officials and candidates. > > > > LCV publishes annually the National Environmental Scorecard, which rates > > members of Congress on the most critical environmental votes cast during > > that year. > > > > > > If you would like to sign up to receive your own updates, send the > following > > command in email to: > > lyris@client-mail.com > > > > subscribe lcv-update > > > > > > C.K. > > Article 28354 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: paulp@ims.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Wanted: Bee Jokes Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:37:37 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.47.48.69 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jan 19 20:37:37 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x71.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.47.48.69 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDfipple6 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28354 In my job I do some technical training. Another engineer, who also does some training, keeps a few cows on the side. During his training sessions, he will sometimes tell a cow joke to liven things up. I got to thinking there must be some good bee jokes out there, but I can't think of any. (I realize that a cow is inherently more comical than a bee.) If any of you have jokes about bees or beekeepers, please pass them along. (Let's keep it clean, please.) Thanks, Paul Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28355 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wanted: Bee Jokes Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:46:23 -0700 Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3A68B5AE.361DD92E@tucson.ars.ag.gov> References: <94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: feral-bee.tucson.ars.ag.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28355 paulp@ims.com wrote: > In my job I do some technical training. > ............... > If any of you have jokes about bees or beekeepers, please pass > them along. (Let's keep it clean, please.) There was a man who loved the bees To them he was their friend He'd go and sit upon their hive But they stung him in the end. Article 28356 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Wanted: Bee Jokes Lines: 29 Organization: Productive Solutions X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <7a3a6.2862$1m.165591@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:26:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.205.212 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 979943171 12.72.205.212 (Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:26:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:26:11 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28356 I recall one that Dave Green posted quite some time ago about and old beekeeper and a lawyer I think it was. Still have that one in your sent box Dave? -- Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@att.net To respond via email, get the "L" out of there wrote in message news:94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In my job I do some technical training. Another engineer, who also does > some training, keeps a few cows on the side. During his training > sessions, he will sometimes tell a cow joke to liven things up. I got > to thinking there must be some good bee jokes out there, but I can't > think of any. (I realize that a cow is inherently more comical than a > bee.) If any of you have jokes about bees or beekeepers, please pass > them along. (Let's keep it clean, please.) > > Thanks, > Paul > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28357 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A68F5B9.3E201681@povn.com> From: "J.F.Hensler" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wanted: Bee Jokes References: <94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:20:10 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-50l13Bx6f1exXC1j3bkAu7Zh6PB34lApTQQWNkK26mU4u1+v/5q3629VHUH+ASKsja9p/MXRVxDl0Z/!hGTYKa5cvyWIQjuSWCjZTiY= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:20:11 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28357 paulp@ims.com wrote: > If any of you have jokes about bees or beekeepers, please pass > them along. Yo Paul: Check out http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/jokes.htm *That* should keep you in material for a while... :-) Skip -- Skip and Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock Article 28358 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: bwgemk@email.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Powerful Technique 9241 NNTP-Posting-Host: kbu-121-100.tm.net.my X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kbu-121-100.tm.net.my Message-ID: <3a688dfe.0@news2.tm.net.my> Date: 20 Jan 2001 02:57:02 +0800 X-Trace: 20 Jan 2001 02:57:02 +0800, kbu-121-100.tm.net.my Organization: TMnet Malaysia Lines: 5 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.tm.net.my!kbu-121-100.tm.net.my Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28358 Learn all the secret of HOW TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE TO WORK FOR YOU for free, get hundred or thousand of people reach you without you even contacting them. Visit us today at : www.sixfigureincome.com/affiliate/register.html?871371 now. Here you will learn 12 reason why you should do it. ytdqemmhlkoqphyonrtndqqscksrfpyujllnvkoilclfhdvprsczfckkgghtlhmlsnvn Article 28359 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp3.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A692B58.FFF0AF26@midwest.net> From: AL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Wanted: Bee Jokes References: <94a8ig$35r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:08:24 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.235.28.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp3.onemain.com 979963243 208.235.28.27 (Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:00:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:00:43 EST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28359 paulp@ims.com wrote: > > In my job I do some technical training. Another engineer, who also does > some training, keeps a few cows on the side. During his training > sessions, he will sometimes tell a cow joke to liven things up. Whew, an engineer dispensing bovine humor - that's sure to make ya blow milk out yer nose.... :) AL Article 28360 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.50!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: beehoo.com / Environmental stand Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:07:39 -0600 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3n3i6tcqteklqlabidrm630hcs2t6nmih0@4ax.com> References: <3a68788c_2@newsa.ev1.net> <3A688125.4D1CA262@theglobe.com> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979963660 13580522 216.167.138.50 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28360 >Ripon >Beekeeper wannabee Ripon, with the Dub's environmental secretary's 'record' on the environment, making money (known collectively as the economy) will be more important than little details like the welfare of bees; getting that huge GM crop to the supermarket will be the thing. My suggestion is to cease being a wannabee and start keeping bees forthwith; if you're born that way, you'll soon know it. One day you find, it's you who is being kept; strange but true. Good luck, C.K. Article 28361 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.50!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: beehoo.com / Environmental stand Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:08:56 -0600 Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3a68788c_2@newsa.ev1.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 979963736 13580522 216.167.138.50 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28361 >Dubya was my governor and he is a good man We'll certainly find out; since it's one thing to be the Governor of Texas, which is constitutionally speaking, 'Not much', i.e a perfect position for the Dub, however, it's quite another thing being President. Of course he has a lot of handlers and spinners, rather like the 'gipper.' Solecisms and all, he's our guy and he should look good for a while. >Somebody with principles and >morals for a change!!!!! "there's an east wind coming, Watson." "I think not Holmes. It is very warm." "Good old Watson!" You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. - A. Conan Doyle C.K. Article 28362 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carman" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pesticide report from NZ - Mad Bee disease Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:58:04 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 82 Message-ID: <94nig1$4rt$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p29.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 980372801 4989 203.96.192.157 (24 Jan 2001 21:46:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2001 21:46:41 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news-xfer.siscom.net!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28362 Hi All Something which the Bee keepers are talking about on our Beekeeping email list, which may be of interest to you. http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ The effects of various sprays which contain organophosphates as experienced by Beekeepers, it looks to be a serious concern, well that's my perspective !! Fond Regards Carman Allen Secretary Soil & Health, Waikato Branch, NZ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pav" > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:00 PM > Subject: [NZBkprs] Mad bee disease / pesticide alert > > > How about > Imidacloprid? > > > > Those of you reading other Bee lists will probably know that overseas > there is much concern about > > "Gaucho", Bayer Corporations brand name for Imidacloprid, a systemic > organo-phosphate (they apply it > > to the seed, and every part of the plant carries the poison, including > pollen) insecticide, which reputedly > > also leaves residues in the soil that can even be picked up by the next > crop planted there, making that > > plant poisonous to insects too. > > French beekeepers in particular are blaming it for "mad bee disease", > saying that while it doesn't kill the > > bee outright, its sub-lethal effects impair normal functioning of the bee, > foraging behaviour, memory etc, > > thereby killing hives just as dead as if the individual bees were dying > directly from poisoning (claims of > > over half a million hives lost), and reducing the performance of many more > hives yet. > > > > I haven't seen any discussion of it on our NZ lists, and 'SearchNZ' turned > up nothing. > > Does anyone know if we have this stuff in NZ (perhaps under a different > name)? Anyone had any first > > hand experience with it? Aware of any intentions to release it here? > > > > Below i have forwarded one example from another list. More info and links > at: > > http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ > > > > -Pav, hoping we don't got it, hoping we don't get it. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter & Frances Burt Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [NZBkprs] Mad bee disease / pesticide alert > We had a similar type of problem here in Gisborne last spring when a lot of > citrus growers sprayed a product called Orthene on citrus trees in full > flower. It didnt kill bees off in the normal manner of insecticide sprays, > but in my case, hives that were in the orchards sprayed lost their queens. > Up to 70% of hives queenless a week after exposure to the spray. Other > beekeepers report similar effects on their hives which were in or near > orchards sprayed with this product. > Peter Burt > > > Article 28363 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (beekeep) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Veil string shrinkage? Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:22:01 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 10 Message-ID: <3a6d847f.771726250@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p11.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28363 I have found over the past several years that my veil strings shrink during the holiday season. I can hardly tie the damn things! By spring as I become more and more active they appear to get longer. BTW I shook down a colony that was almost out of stores yesterday and they had three frames of capped brood about 2 1/2 inches in diameter. I am in southern Maryland. They will be busting loose soon! beekeep Article 28364 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!lester.appstate.edu!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!news.deepthot.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A6B134B.172E5E55@montana.com> From: Erik Joramo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca,sci.agriculture.beekeeping,alt.hobbies.beekeeping Subject: Re: RFD: rec.crafts.meadmaking References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:50:19 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.4.229.228 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 980091785 208.4.229.228 (Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:43:05 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:43:05 CDT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu rec.food.historic:24125 rec.org.sca:312655 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28364 alt.hobbies.beekeeping:237 well i have been checking and while it get mentioned in the updates i still have yet to see any sort of polling in news.groups or news.announce.newgroups it seems to be in Queue for some reason I am guessing that we can't just post until they post that it is open for voting or whatever . Erik Joramo Christopher Hadden wrote: > > Because the RFD is being posted to the moderated newsgroup, > news.announce.newgroups, it may take a day or two to be posted. > > I know there are a lot of supporters for this group here so I thought I'd > let you be among the first to know and send the announcement as soon as I > sent the RFD. > > Christopher Hadden Article 28365 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Carman" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: something to bee aware of Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:06:13 +1300 Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 36 Message-ID: <94o4ho$9cb$1@news.wave.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p93.hn2.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 980391288 9611 203.96.192.221 (25 Jan 2001 02:54:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2001 02:54:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!usenet.net.nz!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!not-for-mail Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28365 Hi all, After the incoming news of the impacts of Gaucho and other insecticides. I did a quick internet search to see what other info is available regarding this issue, there are a lot of websites that catalogue the inherent dangers of pesticides & herbicides for our honey bees I found some important points:- Protecting Honey Bees from Pesticides:- http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/hyg-fact/2000/2161.html Precautions for Beekeepers Place colonies where they will be away from fields that are routinely treated with hazardous pesticides and will not be subjected to pesticide drifts. Identify your apiary. Post your name, address, and phone number in a conspicuous place near your apiary. Let farmers and custom applicators in your area know where your apiaries are located so they will not unknowingly poison them. Be familiar with pesticides commonly used in your area and what their application dates are. Relocate colonies that are exposed repeatedly to hazardous pesticides. Also, remember that soon after colonies are moved to a new location, foraging bees search for water. They may collect water that has been contaminated with pesticides. To reduce the chance of bee losses, provide clean water near the hives. http://www.pollinator.com/pesticide_misuse.htm Pollinating Bees Killed by Spray on Adjacent Fields ( Just one example of many) Regards Carman Article 28366 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Dave and Judy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: State Bee Associations Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:23:29 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3A6F9C31.C70DB81A@fuse.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 129 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28366 Here's the list of State Beekeeping Assoc. showing dues and benefits. Thanks everyone for helping me out on this and taking the time. Judy in Kentucky STATE DUES BENEFITS ALABAMA $10/annual Quarterly Newsletter Annual 2 day convention *Local $10/annual ALASKA *Alaska State $20/individual/annual Monthly meetings, newsletter, beginner $25/family/annual beekeeping classes, State Fair display *Alaska South $15/individual/annual Monthly meetings, newsletter Central ARKANSAS *NW Arkansas $10/individual/annual Joint orders for medications $15/family/annual Turkey for Christmas meeting FLORIDA $15/individual/annual Website *Local $10/individual/annual GEORGIA $20/individual/annual 2 State meetings; state website *Cherokee $10/individual 11 monthly meetings; website KENTUCKY $5/individual/annual Spring, Summer and Fall Conferences; Quarterly newsletter; State Fair booth *Ky Backyard $5/individual/annual Monthly education meetings; County Fair Booth; Joint orders of bees and medications; Calendar; 4h monthly meetings MARYLAND $20/individual/annual 3 state meetings per year *Montgomery Cty $10/individual/annual Monthly newsletters; George’s Pink Pages; Club apiary w/6 colonies for education NEBRASKA $12/individual/annual 8 meetings; State Fair booth; newsletter; annual swap meet NEW MEXICO $30/individual/annual Annual state convention in November; several workshops during the summer NEW YORK Empire State Beekeep $30/individual/annual 2 newsletters; 2 3-day conventions at additional cost *Southern Adirondack $10/individual/annual 6 newsletters; 5 meetings a year; County Fair display; Annual seminar *S. Tier Beekeep $10/individual/annual Local meetings; good door prizes *Finger Lakes $10/individual/annual Monthly meetings; newsletter 3 or 4 times per year NORTH CAROLINA $15/individual/annual Newsletter; Calendar; directory; 2 annual $30/commercial/annual meetings OHIO $20/individual/annual Spring, Summer, Fall conferences for add’l $25/family/annual fee; newsletter; calendar; schools $15/student-senior PENNSYLVANIA $10/individual/annual *Beaver Valley $5/individual/annual 6 newsletters; 6 meetings; 50/50 raffles SOUTH CAROLINA $5/individual/annual Spring 1 day conference; 3 day at Clemson U.; 2 newsletters TENNESSEE $10/individual/annual Website; newsletter $22/family/annual AUSTRALIA NEW SOUTH WALES $30(US)/individual/annual Includes insurance for beekeeper members * Denotes a local association Article 28367 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Students Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:36:58 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: <94k4u9$r0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.207.68 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jan 23 14:36:58 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x51.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 152.163.207.68 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28367 I received the following e-mail this morning. Here is a wonderful opportunity for us to respond to these children from all around the world and say something to them about honeybees. Maybe some future beekeepers could come from Ms. Thompson's class. Sincerely, Herb Campbell NW Florida USA Hello! We are in the third grade at Greenbriar Academy in Durham, North Carolina, USA. We are located in Durham County, near Raleigh, which is the capital of North Carolina. Our social studies teacher, Ms. Thompson, is helping us by using her e-mail address as our e-mail receiver. We have decided to map an e-mail project. We are curious to see where in the world (which is our topic of study) our e-mail will travel via the Internet. We will be limiting our time to the period of December 1, 2000, to March 1, 2001, (only 3 months). This is not a pen- pal project, so we will not write you back (unless you request it). We would like your help. If you receive this message, we ask that you: 1) e-mail back at MsThompsonsClass@yahoo.com and tell us your city/state/country/location so we can plot it on our map AND 2) send this letter on to everyone you know so that they can send it on to everyone they know (and so on) to help us reach even more people. (We do not mind receiving repeats so send it on to everyone. We are tracking the number of responses we receive by making a graph using the numbers received by state and country.) Thank you for any help you can give. Our e-mail address is: MsThompsonsClass@yahoo.com Your friends, Greenbriar Academy Third Grade Students (Ms. Thompson's Social Studies Class) Durham, North Carolina USA Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28368 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Students Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:50:57 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 16 Message-ID: <94mtkr$8hq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <94k4u9$r0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.197.204 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 24 15:50:57 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x64.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 152.163.197.204 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28368 In article , "David Verville" wrote: > Maybe some one local can call the school and inquire. > Or just send them an e-mail like I did telling them something about bees. But it's too late for that now for people in the USA. The response I got said that they had received over 60,000 replies as of last Thursday and were getting 2000 a day. They had now stopped logging e-mails from the USA. Sincerely, Herb Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28369 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Hive Beetles Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:12:07 -0500 Lines: 52 Message-ID: <94k709$dpidl$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> References: <94hbbn$drsek$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> <94ijeg$k2j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 980262729 14469557 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28369 Thanks! I did receive a message from Calvert Apiaries. Let me let you know that HIVE BEETLES CAN be shipped in packages and CAN be a BIG threat! -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html wrote in message news:94ijeg$k2j$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I sent your question to Calvert Apiaries > http://www.beeequipment.com/calvert/ > so you may be hearing from them. From what little I know of hive > beetles I suspect there would be almost no chance of them being in > package bees. We'll see what they say. > > Sincerely, > Herb NW FLorida > > In article <94hbbn$drsek$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de>, > "BeeFarmer" wrote: > > I been looking to purchase some bee packages and was wondering what > others > > were thinking about when ordering bees from areas well known to have > Hive > > Beetles. Ohio has taken a hard hit from a long winter and very bad > fall > > nectar flow. I went to a meeting last week were everyone talked > about the > > same thing although no answer ever came about. Several agreed that > getting > > bees from your buddy would be the easiest solutions however, there > are only > > so many buddies. Ohio has it's share of beetles although very > limited if > > all reports are correct. Some suggested that Alabama continues to > be free > > of the beetle. Can any provider of bees make assurances that their > > packages will not contain beetles and if so who? > > -- > > BeeFarmer > > BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com > > http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Article 28370 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!europa.netcrusader.net!64.152.100.70!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Allen Dick" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <94i3nv$52c$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Pesticide Alert Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:55:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.229.187 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 980265337 198.161.229.187 (Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:55:37 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:55:37 MST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28370 > I just received my catalogue from Betterbee and it contained the > following information. I do not know the accuracy of the information > but it is very interesting to say the least. I am posting it word for > word as follows: > "Three thousand French Beekeepers demonstrated for 3 days in late > October in front of a Bayer pesticide factory in Cormery. They were > demonstrating against an organo-phosphate pesticide made by Bayer > called Imidacloprid... Yup. Unfortunately it is true, and anything that can get over a thousand French beekeepers to agree on anything -- and show up for mass demonstrations three different times -- must be a serious matter. There is a page presenting a wide variety of material about this pesticide at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ The site contains links to pages about the French demonstrations, to French discussions about Gaucho (r), the major suspect, (with translations) and to various sites that profile imidacloprid. For some reason North American beekeepers don't seem interested, although the French claim to have lost half a million hives to Gaucho over the last decade. Two French beekeepers will be at the Canadian honey Council meeting in Moncton, New Brunswick this Jan 31 to Feb 4. The honey council website is at http://www.honeycouncil.ca/ The convention schedule is at http://www.honeycouncil.ca/chc-ccm/meetings.html#agenda Eastern Canadian and US beekeepers may wish to attend the meeting. Contact Heather Clay at chc-ccm@telusplanet.net Prices are in Canadian dollars (=67c US) allen Article 28371 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!cyclone3.rdc-detw.rr.com!news3.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Christopher Hadden" Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking,rec.crafts.brewing,rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca,alt.hobbies.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: Subject: Re: Interested in mead (honey wine)? Check this out... Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:25:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.160.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 980414746 24.163.160.238 (Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:25:46 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:25:46 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu rec.crafts.winemaking:67612 rec.crafts.brewing:251705 rec.food.historic:24133 rec.org.sca:312697 alt.hobbies.beekeeping:238 sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28371 "Christopher Hadden" wrote in message news:M_Qb6.42475$lh.1931934@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net... > A Usenet newsgroup is being proposed for those interested in the lore and > making of mead. The name of the proposed newsgroup is rec.crafts.meadmaking > and those advocating for the creation of this newsgroup need your help! > > Stop by the news.groups newsgroup where a discussion is taking place in the > "RFD: rec.crafts.meadmaking" thread to lend your voice of support. And > please tell other about this initiative. This newsgroup will not be > possible without your support. > > When lending your voice of support, Usenet volunteers advise that > substantive comments are far more useful to the future success of the > proposal than simple comments that say "I would use this group." > > Thanks for your help and we'll see you in news.groups, > > Christopher Hadden > Proponent - rec.crafts.meadmaking > chadden@contecrayon.com The advice of Usenet volunteers prompts me to add the following: Please support this initiative only if you would use such a group. Even infrequent use (in my opinion) is justification to vote YES for a group. I just don't want an improper solicitation of support to happen - this would cause people to vote against the creation of a group. This group is currently in the discussion phase - it is not being voted on yet. Please read the Request For Discussion (RFD) posted to news.groups for more information on the discussion and voting periods. Thanks, Christopher Hadden Proponent - rec.crafts.meadmaking chadden@contecrayon.com Article 28372 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63.100.169.102!not-for-mail From: "BeeFarmer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Hive Beetles Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:08:05 -0500 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <94hbbn$drsek$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> Reply-To: "BeeFarmer" NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.100.169.102 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 980168888 14545364 63.100.169.102 (16 [66812]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28372 I been looking to purchase some bee packages and was wondering what others were thinking about when ordering bees from areas well known to have Hive Beetles. Ohio has taken a hard hit from a long winter and very bad fall nectar flow. I went to a meeting last week were everyone talked about the same thing although no answer ever came about. Several agreed that getting bees from your buddy would be the easiest solutions however, there are only so many buddies. Ohio has it's share of beetles although very limited if all reports are correct. Some suggested that Alabama continues to be free of the beetle. Can any provider of bees make assurances that their packages will not contain beetles and if so who? -- BeeFarmer BeeFarmer@HomeStead.Com http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html Article 28373 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Christopher Sauer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Students Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:42:10 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <94k4u9$r0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 7 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28373 Is this for real? A third grade teacher with a generic @yahoo.com address using a chain letter to teach her third graders about geography? chris Colesburg Apiaries Article 28417 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail From: "David" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pollen in January Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:25:06 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 7 Message-ID: <955ihp$9cg$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Reply-To: "David" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.1a.a4 X-Server-Date: 30 Jan 2001 05:13:29 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28417 I live in middle Georgia. The last few days the temp. has been up to 65deg. some days. My bees have been finding pollen somewhere. What is blooming this time of year? It is dark orange pollen. David Article 28418 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnitebee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: updated pages Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:07:44 -0500 Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.51.216.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.51.216.23 Message-ID: <3a76f38c_1@news.cybertours.com> X-Trace: 30 Jan 2001 12:02:04 -0500, 208.51.216.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.98.63.6 Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.cybertours.com!208.51.216.23 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28418 Greetings! We are always intrigued on various beekeeping techniques of the early centuries(1800's-1900's). Below is the link on the subjects listed. Articles written-1920. 1)How to Remove Bees from Trees 2)How to Produce Extracted Honey 3)How to Control Wax Worms http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/tips.html More articles will bee listed as time allows. Regards, Norma Herb/Norma Bee Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://www.stonycritters.com Betty's Driftwood Santa Site http://pages.ivillage.com/santasite/index.html Article 28419 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Dadant and plastic hives? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:29:52 +0000 Organization: Denrosa Ltd Message-ID: References: <94s346$fb$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> <94sij1$f5ov9$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980886677 nnrp-01:21273 NO-IDENT denrosa.demon.co.uk:194.222.100.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U Lines: 27 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28419 In article , Scot Mc Pherson writes >That seems very interesting...I am honestly suprised....What does the bottom >of your hives look like at the break of winter. As clean as any other hive, with certainly no increased fecal matter. We have had no fecal staining at all in any of our experimental colonies over the last three years, and none so far in the first wave proper started last year. The floor also has mesh over about 50% of the area, so condensation is not a big issue, and the heat does not build up to the extent that it causes overactivity problems. It is probably most like the practice of wrapping for winter, except that the insulation properties do away with the need for the wraps themselves. Even in our temperatures here in Scotland, which are not that severe in winter, the cluster remains pretty tight, so it is obviously not TOO warm. Once the bees get active in spring and later on when clustering begins in the fall, the bees are just that bit more active and get more brood raised, and this difference is a very important one for both wintering performance and spring crop. I have heard that there are some areas where they do not work all that well, so the only real way to go is to get one and try it. -- Murray McGregor Article 28420 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.130!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Acquired Allergies Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:20:43 -0600 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <07he7t4ddfpkdfeaevghspiiajl4vctnem@4ax.com> References: <3A7496B6.A228C219@mediaone.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.130 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 980896844 16632076 216.167.138.130 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28420 >Does this phenomenon occur with hobbyist beekeepers as well as >commercial ones? Yes, and the worst allergic reaction is: anaphylactic shock A severe and rapid and sometimes fatal hypersensitivity reaction to a substance (especially a vaccine or penicillin or shellfish or insect venom) to which the organism (that's you) has become sensitized by previous exposure note: 'sensitized by previous exposure.' If you're worried carry one of those 'kits.' In the USA, a doctor has to prescribe it, and it will cost about as much as the office call probably in the range of 100 USD plus, the last I looked; if you live close to Canada or Mexico, go to either of those places instead, why be a sap. I've been interested in this phenomenon of bee venom in male sperm and the dangers it apparently poses to sexual partners that may be 'allergic' to bee stings. I'm in correspondence with a woman who's married to a California 'commercial' beekeeper that used to get stung a lot (hundreds of times a year) and she developed anaphylaxis, almost dying and the doctor(s) couldn't figure it out until they investigated the possibilities and peculiarities regarding her husband and his excessive bee stings. When I know more I'll post the results. C.K. Article 28421 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!Tele.Dk.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Dadant and plastic hives? Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:37:28 +0100 Organization: Posted Courtesy of Tele Danmark or one of its European Subsidiaries Lines: 30 Message-ID: <957iql$mv1$2@news.inet.tele.dk> References: <94s346$fb$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu><94sij1$f5ov9$1@ID-66812.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip50.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 980897429 23521 195.249.242.50 X-Complaints-To: the appropriate department of the poster's provider X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28421 >What does the bottom > of your hives look like at the break of winter. it is fifty fifty. the styropor hives I am using is working well here in Denmark. I even put a plastic sheet on top under the lid, but have mesh button boards on the year round. I have been using those hives for more than twenty years, and except for some few broken, because drop to the ground with 30 kg full supers. The bottom looks better than a closed bottom board, because of the ventilation and I have even countered less loss than my neighbour running his beekeeping in traditional hives. -- Kind regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software 18-01-2001 now with multiselction and coloring. Now chatroom for beekeeping installed. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 28422 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.tele.dk!Tele.Dk.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: combination lid/floor Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:35:53 +0100 Organization: Posted Courtesy of Tele Danmark or one of its European Subsidiaries Lines: 26 Message-ID: <957iql$mv1$1@news.inet.tele.dk> References: <94sh4r$6ng$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> <954n9t$hki$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip50.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 980897429 23521 195.249.242.50 X-Complaints-To: the appropriate department of the poster's provider X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28422 Have you considered trying a mesh board. I am beekeeping in a not that dry area a little country surrounded by water, and a lot of rain. At least the Danes run for holiday to the mittel terrania countries. My hives are very tight and stands with a mesh board the whole year round be it -10 Celsius or +30 Celsius and I have just a normal winter loos of 5 to 10% -- Kind regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1987. hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software 18-01-2001 now with multiselction and coloring. Now chatroom for beekeeping installed. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 28423 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: hcampb@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Pollen in January Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:40:36 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <957jdj$1t8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <955ihp$9cg$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.12.104.172 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jan 30 23:40:36 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x71.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 64.12.104.172 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhcampb Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28423 In article <955ihp$9cg$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, "David" wrote: > I live in middle Georgia. The last few days the temp. has been up to 65deg. > some days. My bees have been finding pollen somewhere. What is blooming this > time of year? It is dark orange pollen. > > David > I think pine pollen would be light yellow. How about Camellias? They should be blooming at this time of year. Herb NW Fla USA Vasak@aol.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28424 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: updated pages Message-ID: <64qe7t801dtnvim1b836ksletieu4c2u2s@4ax.com> References: <3a76f38c_1@news.cybertours.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:25:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.33.104.185 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 980904314 4.33.104.185 (Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:25:14 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:25:14 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28424 "Midnitebee" wrote: >We are always intrigued on various beekeeping techniques of the early >centuries(1800's-1900's). Those interested in beekeeping history may also enjoy browsing the History section of my website. Plenty of pictures from books written in the late 1800's. http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ Article 28425 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: airwolf33@my-deja.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Raising own queen bees Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:38:06 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9581au$dni$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.217.105.51 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 31 03:38:06 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt; ViaGrafix ISP) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x70.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 64.217.105.51 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDairwolf33 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28425 I purchased a jenter system for raising my own queens. I was wondering what books or web sites would lend some good information about the information I would need. I was sent a little information with the system but that was it. Also I know they said you need a breeder queen for the system but won't a normal queen work? What is the difference between the two? Thanks for the information. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Article 28426 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 19 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Date: 31 Jan 2001 04:10:43 GMT References: <955ihp$9cg$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Pollen in January Message-ID: <20010130231043.07518.00001989@ng-fc1.aol.com> Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28426 >I live in middle Georgia. The last few days the temp. has been up to 65deg. >some days. My bees have been finding pollen somewhere. What is blooming this >time of year? It is dark orange pollen. Dark orange is probably something in the mint family, henbit or anise hyssop, maybe. Pale yellow is likely wild mustard, canola or blooming collards. Pale gray-green is probably maple. Everything is running late this year due to the unusual cold, but the pollen is starting to come in now, here in SC. It will be quite a while before pines bloom. Camelias are just starting, but they are a very minor source. My own camelia usually starts blossoming around Christmas, but so far has only opened one blossom. It's loaded with buds though. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com Disclaimer: Opinions aren't facts; learn the art of discrimination. Opinions presented for your use and amusement; use at your own risk. Article 28427 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.swbell.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn From: James Fischer Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pro-active Rumor Control - ABC News Faux Pas Date: 30 Jan 2001 20:09:19 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 35 Message-ID: <95835f022bn@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-397.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News v2.65 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28427 Time for some rumor control before more people are infected by a persistent mindless meme of the worst sort. Over on the Bee-L list, one member noted: > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/bees010129.html > "But when it comes to the bees, scientists still aren't sure how. The > insects seem to defy all classical laws of aerodynamics. > Now, using technology that has helped keep Boeing planes and NASA > spacecraft soaring, researchers at the University of Washington hope to > solve the mystery." Mystery, indeed. :) The article is, of course, another "urban-legend", and a long-standing misconception that has no basis in fact. Rather than repeating the obvious, I will provide a link to the usual de-bunking facts: http://www.kav.cas.cz/~buble/text/en/TheStrangeCaseOfBumbleBeeWhichFlew.html The AP, ABC News, and the University of Washington should all be very embarrassed at their ignorance and their inability to even do a simple web search on http://www.google.com with the words "bee" and "fly". On an unrelated topic, we are happy to announce that Dadant (USA) and Thorne (UK) are now carrying Fischer's Bee-Quick, which may be of interest to those who are unhappy with their present honey harvesting methods. Check it out at http://www.bee-quick.com . If you were at either of the recent AHPA or ABF meetings, and neglected to get your free sample from the Dadant representatives, send an e-mail to the address listed on the website. Article 28428 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone.bc.net!clarke.sasknet.sk.ca!tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca!not-for-mail From: "Joe Edwards" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Work oppotunity in Canada Lines: 6 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:36:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.165.116.226 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 980980574 142.165.116.226 (Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:36:14 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:36:14 CST Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28428 I am currently looking to employ someone for May-Sept. Experience would be good but will train the right person. If anyone on the list is interested or knows someone please e-mail me. Joe Edwards Article 28429 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!math.arizona.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!not-for-mail From: John Edwards Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Raising own queen bees Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:29:09 -0700 Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Lines: 38 Message-ID: <3A7891B4.F9E3A22D@tucson.ars.ag.gov> References: <9581au$dni$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: feral-bee.tucson.ars.ag.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28429 A breeder q. is one with a special trait or quality of offspring which you want to keep and disseminate, and may have had artificial insemination with a special genetic outcome in mind. You don't need to buy a breeder q. to practice raising your own queens. Find some of Harry Laidlaw's writings for info. - John Edwards, Tucson USDA-ARS BeeLab (hurry with those questions, guys - unless something big happens, we are out of business in seven weeks.) airwolf33@my-deja.com wrote: > I purchased a jenter system for raising my own queens. I was wondering > what books or web sites would lend some good information about the > information I would need. I was sent a little information with the > system but that was it. Also I know they said you need a breeder queen > for the system but won't a normal queen work? What is the difference > between the two? > > Thanks for the information. > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 32.27495 N 110.9402 W http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html Article 28430 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Scott Franklin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping,alt.hobbies.beekeeping Subject: Bees gone, ants moved in and honey stores left behind Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:46:45 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 33 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28430 alt.hobbies.beekeeping:243 I need some help and some thoughts on my situation. This happened this year and seemingly last year. I am new to beekeeping and have one hive of bees, I live in CA north of Sacramento. Winters are chilly but not freezing. I have the hive in a location that gets great morning and evening sun with some shade during the day and there are trees on both sides that create a great wind break My bees have all left their hive(or died). I did not inspect the hive much during the winter because I did not want to disturb the bees during the wintering process. My situation is that our house is on an ant hill. I did notice some ants early in winter hanging around the hive so I put out mothballs about 2 - 4 feet around the hive. (Mothballs I have discovered gets rid of ants very well, they don't like the smell or something). Currently around the hive I can visibly see no dead bees (but they may have been blown away by the wind). I opened the hive, saw a full super of honey, (my little super I emptied back in October), and on the bottom level there are a few capped egg cells and some cells that have semi mature bees partially crawling out of it. It bees are dead and appear normal in color. Does anyone have any ideas as to what might bee wrong? This happen last year it seems but in the spring, a new hive (I think it was new) moved in to the bee box with a full stash of honey. Am I paranoid? Did the bees die? Did they migrate? Was it disease? Please post all responses to the news group...not my email...maybe my circumstance can help others....thanks Scott Article 28431 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A78A55B.F2AE4D5B@gte.net> From: Chad Howell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {GTE Internetworking} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Acquired Allergies References: <3A7496B6.A228C219@mediaone.net> <07he7t4ddfpkdfeaevghspiiajl4vctnem@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 X-Trace: /bCCZDDdZpEg7wwuyZnfZmpAZUQ21PaPqczfrkupn+9C/j64L2g8FulSTyejs5uzow5hYRQgx3IK!DmlVg4A8Dov7o0HrdB6Bx9kdO9iaGVE3hWd4ocnxH1fh7sdR0poyvzFvWwCTlw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:52:38 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:52:38 GMT Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28431 I'm a hobby beekeeper with 4 colonies. I was stung a few weeks ago right square in the forehead. My head swelled like a balloon. Any ways, getting back to what you need to carry. My doctor prescribed an EpiPen Auto Injector made by Dey. It cost me $24.00. Well worth it considering I missed two days of work. Charlie Kroeger wrote: > >Does this phenomenon occur with hobbyist beekeepers as well as > >commercial ones? > > Yes, and the worst allergic reaction is: > > anaphylactic shock > > A severe and rapid and sometimes fatal hypersensitivity reaction to a > substance (especially a vaccine or penicillin or shellfish or insect venom) to > which the organism (that's you) has become sensitized by previous exposure > > note: 'sensitized by previous exposure.' > > If you're worried carry one of those 'kits.' In the USA, a doctor has to > prescribe it, and it will cost about as much as the office call probably in > the range of 100 USD plus, the last I looked; if you live close to Canada or > Mexico, go to either of those places instead, why be a sap. > > I've been interested in this phenomenon of bee venom in male sperm and the > dangers it apparently poses to sexual partners that may be 'allergic' to bee > stings. I'm in correspondence with a woman who's married to a California > 'commercial' beekeeper that used to get stung a lot (hundreds of times a year) > and she developed anaphylaxis, almost dying and the doctor(s) couldn't figure > it out until they investigated the possibilities and peculiarities regarding > her husband and his excessive bee stings. When I know more I'll post the > results. > > C.K. Article 28432 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.mindspring.net!finch!hubcap.clemson.edu!not-for-mail From: Charlie Culver Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: bee problem Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:09:49 -0500 Organization: Clemson University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3A78A94D.5A27FC52@clemson.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 172-16-20-91.generic.clemson.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hubcap.clemson.edu 980986202 27020 172.16.20.91 (1 Feb 2001 00:10:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hubcap.clemson.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Feb 2001 00:10:02 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28432 Hello. I am not a beekeeper, but I have a bee problem. I figured this would be the place to ask. There is a fairly large hive in my back yard that has been there for a really long time (about 5 years, according to the previous owners). So now it's really big and there are a bunch of bees around. I want to get rid of the hive without being stung 132 times. I've been searching for answers to this for a couple days, and a lot of people I've casually talked to about this have mentioned a product that, when sprayed on the hive, will smell so horrendous that the bees have to get out. They said it smells like human vomit or something. Can anyone tell me what this is, and any precautions I should take when I do use it? Thanks, Charlie Culver Article 28433 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: news2.isis.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!216.167.138.159!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Acquired Allergies Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:01:19 -0600 Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3A7496B6.A228C219@mediaone.net> <07he7t4ddfpkdfeaevghspiiajl4vctnem@4ax.com> <3A78A55B.F2AE4D5B@gte.net> Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.167.138.159 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 980989275 17158348 216.167.138.159 (16 [35320]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: news2.isis.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:28433 >My doctor prescribed an EpiPen Auto Injector made by Dey. It cost >me $24.00 I don't know where you are geographically speaking, as GTE.NET is rather secretive of their whereabouts. However, in 1992 in Amarillo, TX. that prescription would have cost you $60 and a time limit regarding effectiveness. I suppose if you 'have' a doctor he can call in a prescription thus avoiding the 'office call' but in '92 an office call for the same region would have set you back 30 to 50 bucks. I guess the manufactures of EpiPen must have recovered their development cost and lowered the price. >Well worth it considering I missed two days of work. So you are saying you used the EpiPen on yourself after your head swelled up, or you just being prepared for the next time you may be stung? If you used the EpiPen after you swelled up, did the swelling go away as fast as it occurred? Did you have to buy two EpiPen prescriptions meaning after you used the first one to counter the allergic reaction you've described, and another to keep in case you're stung again? If that's the case you really spent $48. lastly, is there more than one treatment in an EpiPen Injector? (kit) C.K.