Article 21955 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: imported comb Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Nov 1999 13:34:28 GMT Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108083428.19580.00000674@ngol02.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21955 Does anybody know if there is import restrictions on bulk comb?. Seems to me that is something that they may want to prohibit. Thanks Al Article 21956 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: bobpursley@aol.com (Bob Pursley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Nov 1999 13:36:03 GMT References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21956 In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" writes: > >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. > > Why cant folks read labels and follow them? Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer forever. Article 21957 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:44:46 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 15:45:06 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21957 In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21958 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:11:18 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21958 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > > > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn fed beef steak just for spite. AL Article 21959 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Ladislao A. Guerra, Ph.D." Subject: Vermont beekeepers Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:07:43 -0500 Lines: 3 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cpmsnbbsa04!cpmsnbbsa05 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21959 Is there a beekeepers organization in the state of Vermont? Article 21960 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:41:13 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 18:39:07 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21960 In article <38271246.69A0@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that > position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn > fed beef steak just for spite. Spite, hell... I'm a card carrying member of PETA... "People Eating Tasty Animals"... I don't need an excuse! ;) -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21961 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: smalc@connect.ie Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: bees in barn owl nestboxes Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:10:21 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <80776p$dlc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.106.128.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 08 19:10:21 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.01 [en] (Win16; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x25.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 194.106.128.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsmalchris Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21961 I'm looking for assistance from bee-keepers and bee researchers. We have a number of nest boxes constructed for barn owls in Asia and in Africa, but bees are becoming a common problem, taking over nest boxes, so that the barn owls do not use them. Nest boxes are attached to trees or are constructed on poles about 14ft (4m) aboove the ground. In Africa, the species is Apis mellifica. Can anyone suggest how to keep bees from nest boxes? Thanks, Chris Smal Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. Article 21962 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!not-for-mail From: sanford@monmouth.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 13:21:48 -0500 Organization: Monmouth Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> Reply-To: sanford@monmouth.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sl-tc-ppp142.monmouth.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21962 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > > > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford > STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY > "North America and the Entire World" > http://www.GoStretch.com I don't think so Stretch-and he is a she. College educated and obviously an authority on how all of us should choose to live, think etc...so many people out there just don't think like I do ;-) Shari Article 21963 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Ellen Anglin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <7vua53$1h06$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <19991105204820.10772.00001171@ng-cr1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Evil Hive Beetle/ Biological control Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:23:21 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.69.69.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 942088924 209.69.69.151 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:22:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:22:04 GMT Organization: Verio Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21963 I can't comment on the hive beetle, But I have a LOT of assasin bugs in my yard- These are a bug in the order Hemiptera that is a predator. (Same order as Stink bugs, but these are smaller, and colored black and red.) I assume that they are feeding on earwigs and other nasties in my flower beds. Well anyway- I built a stand with a roof to store my supers on- it's floor is 1/4 inch hardware cloth to keep out mice, but otherwise open. The assasin bugs have been crawling all over the empty supers- I'll be suprised if I find any wax moth damage next spring. These assasins are voracious predators, and I imagine the wax moth larvae are quite tasty. Anyone else have experience with these predators? Ellen Anglin JMitc1014 wrote in message news:19991105204820.10772.00001171@ng-cr1.aol.com... > Is this Gold Start stuff chemical? > Has anybody tried predator bugs, nematodes or bacteria against the SHB? How > about Bacillus thruingiensis (Bt), the stuff they use against gypsy moths and > tomato hornworms? How about that stuff they sell in the stores for Japanese > beetles called Doom or Grub Attack? > Article 21964 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.sshe1.sk.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Hugh Tait" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991107183315.08811.00000205@ngol01.aol.com> Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:59:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.65.109.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.sshe1.sk.home.com 942091146 24.65.109.115 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:59:06 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:59:06 PST Organization: @Home Network Canada Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21964 > > The practise of gasing/killing bees in Northern Climates rather than > overwintering them has been considered to show lack of proper respect for bees. > I am not sure but I think this was mentioned in Sue Hubble's book. > Al As a general rule, I know no one who gasses bees now, it is a carry over from when beekeepers up here used to buy packages each spring and gas each fall. The existence of varroa resulted in a closed border, in the mid 80's, at which point beekeepers learned to overwinter bees, ( which was previously thought very difficult if not impossible) There are few if any who would choose to gas bees now. It was always a sad thing. We can thank varroa for producing better beekeepers, improving management skills, and a larger knowledge base about what can and cannot be done for bees. Vegans have formed an idea that they would like to promote, and pick and choose facts to support their concepts, disregarding truths and avoiding full disclosure of the facts. It displays a lot of elements that are found in cults. I have read several internet "lectures" and books and found enough holes in their thinking that they dismiss their own arguments. To follow through and dictate to others a personal philosophy, one must temper it with the compromises the individual has to make themselves. Credibility is hard to maintain when you try to dictate that others live by your pholosophy, yet the individual ( vegans) are still living in modern dwellings, and are exploiting/enslaving the worlds resources with the rest of society. I myself will start entertaining their ideas as valid, when they achieve the following. a) open their eyes to all the facts b) adopt the concept that the world is composed of shades of grey not black and white c) start offering solutions as opposed to critisisms d) and develope a knowledge of what they are critisising That being said, it is a very cool world, that has all these different thinking minds and viewpoints, regardless of how much they piss me off. hugh Boschman hughes Apiaries Article 21965 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:40:25 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 18:38:19 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21965 In article <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com>, sanford@monmouth.com wrote: > I don't think so Stretch-and he is a she. College educated and > obviously an authority on how all of us should choose to live, think > etc...so many people out there just don't think like I do ;-) > Shari No, Shari, what I mean is... If it weren't for kept bees we'd have one helluva problem with pollination due to, among other things, the effects of diseases and pesticides on feral colonies. It's my understanding that it's only because of beekeepers that honey bees survive at all in North America. Seems like the writer is swallowing a camel while choking on a mite. -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21966 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 18:02:12 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <807o9a$ns2$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.80.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21966 Yea, why can't folks read the label? I know the label states to leave the strips in for a minimum of 45 days but can be left in up to about 54(?) days. I don't have a packet in front of me but it's somewhere around that time. Strips should come out now I suspect. -Barry ---------- In article <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com>, bobpursley@aol.com (Bob Pursley) wrote: > In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" > writes: > >> >>My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >>ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >>if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. >> >> > > Why cant folks read labels and follow them? > > Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding > drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer > forever. Article 21967 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 17:59:30 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <382763E2.708E@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21967 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <38271246.69A0@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that > > position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn > > fed beef steak just for spite. > > Spite, hell... I'm a card carrying member of PETA... "People Eating Tasty > Animals"... I don't need an excuse! ;) Got any bumper stickers? AL Article 21968 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 02:22:28 GMT References: Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108212228.24118.00000058@ngol08.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21968 I looked at the website that this vegan has created. He seems to not mind so much top bar hives and free range honey. It is almost like the guy had that conclusion and subjectively set out to arrive at it. Al Article 21969 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: updates Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 02:44:53 GMT References: <3825ce27_2@news.cybertours.com> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108214453.10782.00000054@ngol07.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21969 "Midnitebee" writes: >More photos of "exposed" honey colony:Location is Nepal >http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/raji.html > Got photos? Send to us and we will insert them on our web site. I like that picture. It's the kind of pictures I'm looking for in National Geographic etc. Thanks Al Article 21970 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.cs.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.cs.com!not-for-mail From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.cs.com X-Admin: news@cs.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 04:39:19 GMT References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Message-ID: <19991108233919.16564.00003110@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21970 >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. > One of the main reasons not to leave apistan in a hive for too long is that the fluvalinate degrades and becomes weaker thereby giving the mites a chance to develop an immunity to it. Kinda like a flu shot. Robert Williamson Southeast Texas Honey Co. P.O. Box 176 Vidor, Tx. 77670 " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 21971 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail From: Jerry Hathaway Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Best foundation? Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600 Organization: Info Avenue Internet Services Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Reply-To: hathaway@geneseo.net NNTP-Posting-Host: genppp49.geneseo.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 942123229 25005 206.28.227.116 (9 Nov 1999 04:53:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 04:53:49 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21971  

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  I have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting ready.
 

      Thank you,
 
     Jerry Hathaway
     Geneseo, Illinois Article 21972 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!den-news-01.qwest.net!qwest!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 65 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:16:06 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.79 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942124846 38.31.250.79 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 00:20:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 00:20:46 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21972 ShoersBabe says: >I have the world's dumbest question. After reading your question I've known some dumber ones than that, like a woman on a list having to do with wiccans ask: "what is cannabis?" which just goes to show that it's true what they say: there are aliens from other planets living among us. > I was asking the resident vegan uh ho..vegans, who appear to have their heart in the right place, but are nonetheless, resistant to discussion or the broader view, and so it's pointless to engage them in any subjects involving counterpoint. Like all fanatics, they're passionate believers with no patience. Unless you admire that and chime in, (this is true for all fanatics) there is nothing much you can say after someone says they're a "vegan" but look at your watch and clear out. > why she does not eat honey when it is the only truly cruelty-free food. Honey is not cruelty-free food if you accept a kind of Judeo Christian attempt to empathize with pain and suffering when it isn't happening to you. Lots of bees die when it comes to removing their honey. I would think a species of creature that had been on the planet as long as bees, would have figured out a way to do away with pain as we understand it. No one has been able to ask the bees what they think. Take a cabbage for instance, I'm sure Vegans eat cabbages and yet, have they ask themselves if a cabbage feels pain when it's cut off, untimely, from it's roots, or doesn't it even care? Take salt for instance, we're talking about crystalline life being possibly used against its will. If one decides that cruelty has occurred by the reaction of the creature, then bees are fighting and dying to defend their stores of honey. Bees have a rigid society run by the intricacies of a 100 million years of development; when the beekeeper arrives, by the division of labour within the hive, hundreds of bees react according to their job description. Those designated as guardians of the hive, will attack with all the ferocity of a regiment of vegans storming the walls of Iowa Beef Packers. As cruelty goes, that is, the recent understanding of that event, and or policy, or enjoyment, or however you see the concept, does not enter into the world of the bees as I see it, but is only in the minds of humans that attempt to define it in terms of their misplaced and possibly over developed sense of empathy for the world around them. We may then assume, no one knows, so it's just what you want to believe. >have now been asked to back up my assertation that it is, in fact, cruelty free. It's not cruelty free, but neither is having slums in a rich city or people living in drain pipes across from churches where fat christians meet on sunday, or having a job that pays a demeaning wage, or sitting through another celebrity interview or another success story on another television talk show, and I haven't even mentioned what's left of our global bio diversity or the state of the eco system on which we all depend. In short, there are a lot things out there to occupy your mind instead of backing up your asserted thoughts to vegans. >Chances of my making it back over to this newsgroup are small That's too bad Carolyn we need more dumb questions here. Get yourself a real dialup and then a newsreader. Leave your portal behind and enter the murky but lively world of usenet. Charlie Kroeger Article 21973 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 07:03:10 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21973 Okay folks. Can't keep my mouth shut this time. I won't address individual statements, but commonalities I see in the comments on this thread. First--I have been a vegetarian for fifteen years. I was vegan for two of those years. I began as an animal rights activist (at fifteen!) but I am now mostly concerned with the ethics of supporting an industry that pollutes our environment so dramatically. That said, I do not preach vegetarianism as if it were religion; I make my own choices to live as I see fit. In response to the comments here: I am shocked and dismayed at the hostility and narrow-mindedness expressed here. Veg*nism is a dietary choice. Not all--not even most--veg*ns prosteletize their lifestyle. Most of them make choices based on their own sense of justice/ethics/morals. The decision to *not* eat honey comes from a decision to *not* benefit at the expense of another animal. Such vegans often do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? I doubt it. Not all veg*ns think that humans are a scourge on the earth. Only a few, very noisy veg*ns give this impression. Most want only to live in a way that reflects their great concern for animal life in it's natural, unmanipulated state. Most do not expect others to uphold the same standards. Next: The vegetables-are-alive-too argument. How many times do I have to hear this? It is not valid logic. Veg*ns are concerned with the treatment of _animals_. The (mis)treatment of plants has nothing to do with it and is merely a red herring to divert the argument. I have never been asked this question by someone who did not seem to feel that MY dietary/lifestyle choice somehow threatened theirs. Finally, I must make a comparison with veg*anism and religion. Moral/Ethical veg*ns make a lifestyle choice based on (duh) morals and ethics. Religious people, Christians for example, also make lifestyle choices based on a code of morals and ethics. I would put forth that prosteletizing Christians are just as annoying as prostelitizing veg*ns. Although I am not a Christian, I think of Christians as basically nice people who are trying to do the right thing in this world by living compassionately and with grace. Where I live (San Francisco) veg*ns probably outnumber Christians, and most people I know haven't actually known any Christians first-hand. These people are the ones first to say that Christians are sanctimonious, hypocritical, and overbearing (hmm...who's that at the door? The only Christian some of these folks have ever met.) Not a Christian, yet I am the first to defend Christians with all my heart and soul. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when that opinion is based on misinformation and fear, I feel the need to interject. Most veg*ns are basically good people with good values and good intentions and a healthy respect for life and the natural world. The website in question seems to me to be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy enough to get alot of attention. Sincerely, Kelly ~hastily donning flame-proof undergarments~ Article 21974 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.netins.net!newshub.nntp.mr.net!news7.onvoy.net!not-for-mail From: "E. Rogers" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 43 Organization: news.starpoint.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 01:45:01 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.32.197.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 942133806 209.32.197.5 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 01:50:06 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 01:50:06 CST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21974 Bob Pursley wrote in message <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com>... >In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" >writes: > > >Why cant folks read labels and follow them? > >Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding >drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer >forever. I disagree, that is all the beekeepers in this area of SW Minnesota have gone out of business using apistan. They put there trust in this product by paying their premium price. Most comercial beekeepers, I talked to personally, feel that some of the windfall profits should have gone into research for alturnative treatments. But no, the Apistan people just kept their profits. As a result beekeepers were left begging for a new treatment, and it looks like those beekeepers will be left paying high prices for those treatments. This tells me that the apistan people could give a rats a_ _ about the beekeeper who truly needs a cure for the varroa mite. I am one beekeeper that has not used apistan for the past 3 years and is 100% mite free. When I started with 25 colonies 3 years ago I threw the worthless apistan out and started looking for alturnative treatments. I now have over 100 colonies and very healthy bees. As I see it the only thing worse than the varroa mite on the bees, is the blood sucking chemical companies on the backs of hard working beekeepers that are trying to make a buck with bees. All this with the blessing of the federal government. As I keep increasing in size each year I do understand every dollar I keep from the blood suckers the more I will have for improvements or family life. Good luck with your mite problems or blood sucker problems. Elroy Article 21975 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Message-ID: <38281842.693598578@news.usenetserver.com> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 25 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:44:25 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:50:44 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21975 I always intended to go to Sue Colby's insemination class .. Glad I was saved from raping my queen due to my ignorant thinking I could improve on mother nature's choices Dave On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:44:46 -0600, HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) wrote: >In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > >> http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html >> > >This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > >-- >Charles "Stretch" Ledford >STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY >"North America and the Entire World" >http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21976 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Sandoz Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 11:20:02 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109062002.06955.00002352@ng-ff1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21976 hehe noticed last night on the history chanel that the wonderful folks that brought us apistan are the same folks that brought us the wonder drug LSD. GO FIGURE...... Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 21977 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jmitc1014@aol.com (JMitc1014) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 12:58:06 GMT References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109075806.04211.00003303@ng-ff1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21977 I started with almost all uncoated wax foundation (from Dadant, a beekeeping supplier). It was fine. However, I did use one box of Duragilt for a honey super. A few of the outside frames weren't drawn out for quite a while, then when the bees did start to draw them, they made drone comb. John Article 21978 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: harrisonrw@aol.com (HarrisonRW) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 11:38:12 GMT References: <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109063812.01879.00002216@ng-ci1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21978 >Why cant folks read labels and follow them? The problem is not always the person using the strips. Many bee supply companies are buying the Apistan strips in bulk and then just shipping the strips wraped in a palstic bag with no instructions as to their use. Ralph Harrison Milford CT Article 21979 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Message-ID: <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 59 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:59:13 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:05:33 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21979 Last year there was an article in ABJ which claim more hobbiests were discourage by Duraguilt than any other cause. About a week later, Nebraska had a beginner beekeeping class and I volunteered to help people assemble their first hives. In the beginning kit they got 10 crimp wire wax and 10 Duraguilt foundations. Another person helping was a long time beekeeper who also remarked about the poor choice for beginners of the Duraguilt. I went home and thought on this .. having already bought a case of Duraguilt and also a case of crimp wire, I made up 4 new hives each from nucs with 4 drawn frames. 2 hives had the remaining 15 frames ( and a division board feeder) of Duraguilt and 2 had the remaining 15 frames of crimp wire. During the first 2 weeks I recorded that it was true that the crimp wire was getting pulled faster. However by the third week there was no difference and within a month all hive bodies were fully pulled with feeding 1-1 every 5th day for the first 6 weeks. I also manipulated frames as I normally would moving them inward or rotating to get all pulled. I continued the experiment on these 4 hives with supers above the queen excluder. 2 hives got new foundation of Duraguilt and 2 hives got new crimp wire .. 10 frames per hive .. 3 supers per hive. It is my normal way to drip feed over the super foundation to get the ladies to move through the excluder .. this I did equally. Again by August 15th ( about the 12 the week now ) foundation was pulled equally as well. I continued to manipulate frames to get all pulled through out the flow and harvested September 15. Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil and crimp wire the same. Dave On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600, Jerry Hathaway wrote: > >  > >

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >I have read that the plastics are >
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >Or should I stick with >
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >ready. >
  > >

      Thank you, >
  >
     Jerry Hathaway >
     Geneseo, Illinois > Article 21980 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!vonorlow.dialup.fu-berlin.DE!not-for-mail From: Melanie von Orlow Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bombus honey Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:07:12 +0100 Organization: Freie Universitaet Berlin Lines: 18 Message-ID: <38281C80.F45843FD@chemie.fu-berlin.de> References: <19991027164913.09001.00001264@ngol01.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vonorlow.dialup.fu-berlin.de (160.45.227.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 942152699 770414 160.45.227.8 (16 17 19) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0321e (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21980 Hi, Al, I thought about it for the same reason. Even if it's more or less the same stuff it should be interesting for some people with a special taste for rare and expensive things. But harvesting bumble bee honey is a tideous work. It has to be performed by hand, using a syringe or a little spoon to scratch out the honey. And it's very hard to collect enough. You need also to feed up the hive afterwards as they keep only enough honey for 2 or 3 bad days. So you will need many hives for this rare stuff. Here, in germany, the law is also a hurdle - bumble bees are strictly protected by law and using them for commercial reasons like breeding them for pollination or honey production is not allowed...that's why it is done in the netherlands. BTW, it tastes good but not extraordinary... Melanie www.hymenoptera.de Article 21981 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-166.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:56:02 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.a6 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 14:54:00 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21981 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > Bees have a rigid society run by the intricacies of a 100 million years > of development; when the beekeeper arrives, by the division of labour > within the hive, hundreds of bees react according to their job > description. Those designated as guardians of the hive, will attack > with all the ferocity of a regiment of vegans storming the walls of Iowa > Beef Packers. ROTFLMAO! Now THAT's funny! -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21982 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-166.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 08:00:50 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.a6 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 14:58:49 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21982 Hi, Kelly... I, too, was a bit surprised at how much hostility was brought forth from our normally docile bunch of beekeepers when confronted with a vegan... I guess it's human nature to attack when provided with the kind of openings for attack that vegans seem to have... Anyway... In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) wrote: > all veg*ns think...Only a few, very noisy veg*ns ... Veg*ns are > concerned... a comparison with veg*anism and religion... prostelitizing veg*ns... Etc... What's with the asterisk? -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21983 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Steve Huston Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 11:30:22 -0500 Organization: Riverace Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <38284C1E.6765BB15@riverace.com> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: xJ45c+800x+bBY35LLlBf6nBQnFwSdsZSxmTVX82oOA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 16:30:24 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21983 "E. Rogers" wrote: > I am one beekeeper that has not used apistan for the past 3 years and is > 100% mite free. When I started with 25 colonies 3 years ago I threw the > worthless apistan out and started looking for alturnative treatments. I now > have over 100 colonies and very healthy bees. Could you please describe your treatment methods? I'd love to go without Apistan. Thanks, -Steve -- Steve Huston Riverace Corporation Email: shuston@riverace.com http://www.riverace.com Specializing in TCP/IP, CORBA, ACE (508) 541-9183, FAX 541-9185 Expertise to help your projects succeed We support ACE! Article 21984 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk!dave From: Dave Black Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:44:41 +0000 Organization: Woodbridge Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 942173269 nnrp-02:24786 NO-IDENT woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Lines: 25 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21984 In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Orangerose writes >The website in question http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html >seems to me to >be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" >about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does >not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy >enough to get alot of attention. Never-the-less, it is an excellent, well reseached lesson in web documents, and one which we (meat-eating bee-keeping persons) ought to be less dismissive of. Actually too many beekeepers here have been self- righteous and preachy. More respect (and a bookmark) is due. Yours, in fetching blue asbestos Dave Black Surrey, UK. http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive Article 21985 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 19:08:31 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109140831.26069.00000028@ng-bx1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21985 >What's with the asterisk? Vegans--eat no animal products, including dairy, eggs, and maybe honey. Vegetarians--may eat eggs or dairy or some may even eat fish--though there is hot debate among vegetarians against fish-eaters calling themselves vegetarian. When talking about both groups on the Usenet, a convenient shorthand is "veg*ns" to include both sets of people who eat a non-animal-based diet. It's more inclusive. :-) Kelly Article 21986 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bombus honey Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991027164913.09001.00001264@ngol01.aol.com> <38281C80.F45843FD@chemie.fu-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:47:12 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.169 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942180716 38.31.250.169 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:51:56 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:51:56 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21986 Melanie said: >But harvesting bumble bee honey is a tideous work. Hummm, I never realized that Germans were the masters of understatement I thought that was only reserved for the British. Well, you are sort of cousins anyway. Just a thought, (and the ethical must now turn away) but why should it only be left up to the corporations to do what they like? Since in America conspicuous consumption is an important display to perform as a sign you've triumphed in the national obsession for success. By this need therefore products must be forthcoming to satisfy this demand. The Bombus goes to the same flowers as the Apis..so "small attractive 2 oz. bottles" with the label: Bumblebee Honey price $10 (USD) I don't think that's being greedy, I've got the bombus to show off if a question is raised. Sure beats the hell out of trying to keep them going year round for pollination. Charles Kroeger Head of marketing: The Bombus Corp. rare products division Article 21987 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!lead.zk3.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!not-for-mail From: Jim Moore Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: My Wife's Pissed Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:58:18 -0500 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 4 Message-ID: <38270F3A.446B@gemgrp.enet.dec.com> References: <381DDDFA.D7DDDD19@bms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gemeun.zko.dec.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21987 As suggested do the bulk cleanup with shovel or dust pan, then finish of with speedy-dri or cat litter used for cleaning up oil spills. This saves using watter and speading the problem. Article 21988 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 08:31:36 GMT References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109033136.18198.00000124@ng-cs1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21988 >Or should I stick with >all wax foundation?  Any yep, works fine Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 21989 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!attmtf!ip.att.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:25:37 -0800 Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 157 Message-ID: <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.43.31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780" X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 942186281 9190 12.72.43.31 (9 Nov 1999 22:24:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 22:24:41 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21989 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of all the types of foundation that I have used, my least favorite is = Duragilt. Bees move wax around. If it is not introduced at the = appropriate time (i.e a flow on) the bees will chew off the wax from one = sheet to use on another frame. You are left with a sheet of plastic that = the bees will never draw out. This could be the reason for the = beekeepers comments. Best I have used is either Plasti-cell (snaps in a conventional wood = frame) or Pierco. I prefer Pierco since there is no frame to assemble. A = great thing when one has a real job and realizes another super needed to = be added yesterday. Another benefit of the plastic is that if the bees = botch some of it, just scrape it back to the plastic and they will = rebuild it. I have to say though that my experience is that it is the = most beautifully drawn frame you'll find. Wall-to-wall worker cells. I = had one hive that drew out 5 supers of 9 frames each this last summer, = so I wouldn't say that the bees are reluctant to draw it out. Any = foundation must be introduced under the RIGHT CONDITIONS. One word of warning about Pierco, it is probably not for you if you are = a habitual peeker. It can result in a lot of burr comb. I think this is = due to the thickness (or lack thereof) of the topbar. It is not a full = inch like the wood frames so the bees want to make the upper and lower = frames 1 long comb. I am going to do some experimenting in the spring to = see if I can eliminate this problem. But since I am not a peeker, but = really is not an issue with me. Wax is great but is labor intensive and expensive. It is largely a matter of personal preference. --=20 Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net To reply via e-mail get the "L" out of there Jerry Hathaway wrote in message = news:3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net... =20 What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with? I = have read that the plastics are=20 not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then = Perma-dent? Or should I stick with=20 all wax foundation? Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20 I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting ready.=20 =20 Thank you,=20 =20 Jerry Hathaway=20 Geneseo, Illinois=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Of all the types of foundation that I have used, my least favorite = is=20 Duragilt. Bees move wax around. If it is not introduced at the = appropriate time=20 (i.e a flow on) the bees will chew off the wax from one sheet to use on = another=20 frame. You are left with a sheet of plastic that the bees will never = draw out.=20 This could be the reason for the beekeepers comments.
 
Best I have used is either Plasti-cell (snaps in a conventional = wood frame)=20 or Pierco. I prefer Pierco since there is no frame to assemble. A = great=20 thing when one has a real job and realizes another super needed to be = added=20 yesterday. Another benefit of the plastic is that if the bees botch some = of it,=20 just scrape it back to the plastic and they will rebuild it. I have to = say=20 though that my experience is that it is the most beautifully drawn frame = you'll=20 find. Wall-to-wall worker cells. I had one hive that drew out 5 supers = of 9=20 frames each this last summer, so I wouldn't say that the bees are = reluctant to=20 draw it out. Any foundation must be introduced under the RIGHT = CONDITIONS.
 
One word of warning about Pierco, it is probably not for you if you = are a=20 habitual peeker. It can result in a lot of burr comb. I think this is = due to the=20 thickness (or lack thereof) of the topbar. It is not a full inch like = the wood=20 frames so the bees want to make the upper and lower frames 1 long comb. = I am=20 going to do some experimenting in the spring to see if I can eliminate = this=20 problem. But since I am not a peeker, but really is not an issue with = me.
 
Wax is great but is labor intensive and expensive.
 
It is largely a matter of personal preference.

--
Geo
Sacramento, in California's great Central=20 Valley
"Honey is sweet but the bee stings"
gstyLer@worldnet.att.net
= To reply=20 via e-mail get the "L" out of there
 
 
Jerry Hathaway <hathaway@geneseo.net> = wrote in=20 message news:3827A8A5.522355E0@genese= o.net...
 =20

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start = with?  I=20 have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is=20 Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with =
all wax=20 foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting=20 ready.
 =20

      Thank you,
 =20
     Jerry Hathaway =
    =20 Geneseo, Illinois

------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780-- Article 21990 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:07:46 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 8 Message-ID: <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.8a.c0.c5 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 23:05:22 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21990 My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of cruelty ShoersBabe wrote in message <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com>... Article 21991 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:22:38 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3828BACD.454F@midwest.net> References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21991 Dave Black wrote: > > In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Orangerose > writes > > >The website in question > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > >seems to me to > >be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" > >about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does > >not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy > >enough to get alot of attention. > > Never-the-less, it is an excellent, well reseached lesson in web > documents, and one which we (meat-eating bee-keeping persons) ought to > be less dismissive of. Actually too many beekeepers here have been self- > righteous and preachy. Aw comeon - who could pass up something like this??? http://www.greatfoodwholesale.com/consumer/products/grtfood/ACKERMAN/icons/AC99041-02L.jpg :) AL Article 21992 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:30:23 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3828BC9F.44B3@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21992 rjanney@pipeline.com wrote: > > My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of > cruelty > > ShoersBabe wrote in message > <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com>... Not if lightly seasoned, grilled, and served on a wild rice pilaf with a Ceasar salad and a tasty red wine. Those who recoil at the idea of alcohol could substitute a Big Red soda. BTW, I think its vegan - or veg*an if you want a wider choice of game. AL Article 21993 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jeff1020@aol.comxxx (Jeff Reader) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 00:53:23 GMT References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21993 I think most of the problem is that although being vegetatin is a choice most people think it is because of cruility to animals. This is why the killing of plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing plants they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other reason than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. Jeffery E Reader where did you get the undergarments No XXX in my E-mail Article 21994 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "DP" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:19:48 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21994 I would have to agree... Duraguilt and crimp wire are the same, you'll be safe choosing eather. Dave Hamilton wrote in message <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com>... >Last year there was an article in ABJ which claim more hobbiests were >discourage by Duraguilt than any other cause. About a week later, >Nebraska had a beginner beekeeping class and I volunteered to help >people assemble their first hives. In the beginning kit they got 10 >crimp wire wax and 10 Duraguilt foundations. > >Another person helping was a long time beekeeper who also remarked >about the poor choice for beginners of the Duraguilt. > >I went home and thought on this .. having already bought a case of >Duraguilt and also a case of crimp wire, I made up 4 new hives each >from nucs with 4 drawn frames. 2 hives had the remaining 15 frames ( >and a division board feeder) of Duraguilt and 2 had the remaining 15 >frames of crimp wire. > >During the first 2 weeks I recorded that it was true that the crimp >wire was getting pulled faster. However by the third week there was >no difference and within a month all hive bodies were fully pulled >with feeding 1-1 every 5th day for the first 6 weeks. I also >manipulated frames as I normally would moving them inward or rotating >to get all pulled. > >I continued the experiment on these 4 hives with supers above the >queen excluder. 2 hives got new foundation of Duraguilt and 2 hives >got new crimp wire .. 10 frames per hive .. 3 supers per hive. It is >my normal way to drip feed over the super foundation to get the ladies >to move through the excluder .. this I did equally. Again by August >15th ( about the 12 the week now ) foundation was pulled equally as >well. I continued to manipulate frames to get all pulled through out >the flow and harvested September 15. > >Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil >and crimp wire the same. > >Dave > > >On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600, Jerry Hathaway > wrote: > >> >>  >> >>

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >>I have read that the plastics are >>
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >>Or should I stick with >>
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >>

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >>ready. >>
  >> >>

      Thank you, >>
  >>
     Jerry Hathaway >>
     Geneseo, Illinois >> > > > > Article 21995 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 02:45:30 GMT References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21995 >This is why the killing of >plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing >plants >they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other >reason >than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. >Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. So why put cruelty to humans above cruelty to animals? There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part that kills the entire plant. There are vegetarians (like me) who eat eggs and dairy as long as they are from small farmers who raise their animals humanely. Here's a website with some interesting discussion. It's written by a meat-eating guy whose girlfriend is a vegan. It probably explains better than I can the ins and outs of the veg*n community. The undergarments are from the depths of the Usenet, from the ng alt.undergarments.flameproof. A non-animal source, of course. Kelly Article 21996 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-180-52.phnx.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 22:51:48 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.b4.34 X-Server-Date: 10 Nov 1999 05:52:27 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21996 In article <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, wrote: > My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of > cruelty > (THINKING====> "DON'T SAY IT!!! DON'T SAY IT!) -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21997 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!news.icm.edu.pl!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!news.nitco.com!not-for-mail From: Chad Howell Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 22:21:37 -0600 Organization: NetNITCO Internet Services Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3828F2D1.808CF135@netnitco.net> References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: valpo-quad-3-7.netnitco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hyperion.nitco.com 942208393 1705 216.176.151.7 (10 Nov 1999 04:33:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@netnitco.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 04:33:13 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21997 Fire in the hole!!!!! Orangerose wrote: > >This is why the killing of > >plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing > >plants > >they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other > >reason > >than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. > >Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. > > So why put cruelty to humans above cruelty to animals? > > There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part > that kills the entire plant. There are vegetarians (like me) who eat eggs and > dairy as long as they are from small farmers who raise their animals humanely. > > Here's a website with some interesting discussion. It's written by a > meat-eating guy whose girlfriend is a vegan. It probably explains better than > I can the ins and outs of the veg*n community. > > The undergarments are from the depths of the Usenet, from the ng > alt.undergarments.flameproof. A non-animal source, of course. > > Kelly Article 21998 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 121 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:07:13 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.11.203.145 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942214317 38.11.203.145 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:11:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:11:57 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21998 Orangerose said: >I am shocked and dismayed at the hostility and narrow-mindedness expressed >here. Veg*nism is a dietary choice. It's a little known fact that after keeping bees for many years, the beekeeper is overcome by the stronger culture of the bees and becomes the one who is kept. Some beekeepers are traditional farmer-like, plodding, boringly patriotic tedious non thinking homophobic, and vegan hating. We had some guy posting here recently who was on about fornicators spreading aids with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. > Such vegans often >do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? Extremism is as American as Tom Delay, perfectly normal; but how come you don't you want a real friend, a nice dog? A dog won't care if you're a vegan, although he might not get too enthusiastic over the table scraps, he/she will, love you just the same. You should see how many are out there, just take a visit to the pound, every cage full. > The (mis)treatment of plants has >nothing to do with it and is merely a red herring to divert the argument. I >have never been asked this question by someone who did not seem to feel that MY >dietary/lifestyle choice somehow threatened theirs. Relax, nothing you do threatens me. If your reasons for not mis-treating animals are well articulated, then it's only natural to attach that logic to everything we eat. I think for instance that the relentless hybridizing and now genetically modifying and patenting necessary food plants is evil and should be stopped. It is for instance, monstrous to put fish genes in tomatoes just to increase shelf life in a supermarket. I also think it's disrespectful to the plant, and discounts the plant's evolutionary struggles to arrive at its present stable and nutritious form. There are fundamental truths of nature, like realizing a few genes separate homos from being some other primate, or a plant, and depending on the code you get, depends on what you turn out to be. Maybe those hindus are on to something. >I would put forth that prosteletizing Christians are just >as annoying as prostelitizing veg*ns. I agree. > I think of Christians as basically nice people who are trying to do the right thing in >this world by living compassionately and with grace. Some people need to have religion, I think that's pretty well established; but, when they start operating radio and television stations and are allowed by the state, to accumulate large amounts of cash and property because mostly they pay no taxes, like corporations, then their next step is toward politics; in fact, they've already taken it, and we're seeing the early benefits of this thinking in our present sitting congress; even though many who got out the vote are now disappointed to find their representatives have been more changed by the system (i.e. bribery and corruption) than the other way around; but, as all can see, even christians have now rationalized greed. I think christians should take a page out of that book where Jesus is quoted by his trusted apostle Matthew in that part of the synoptic gospels of the same name, where Jesus, unequivocally states: (Mat. 6:5) and warns against conspicuous prayer, and spreading tedium. Jesus further adds cryptically: "they shall have their reward" and I would add, I hope so. I keep remembering what H.L. Mencken said about the puritans: "I don't mind them thinking like they do, I just don't want them wanting me to think like they do." >Not a Christian, yet I am the first to defend Christians with all >my heart and soul. Maybe you should come to Amarillo, Texas, join one of those off the wall christian churches (there are more than 300 odd) and don't forget to tell them you're a vegan. You may have to explain what that means, but after that, you'll be able to formulate a more educated opinion regarding your above statement. > Most veg*ns are basically good people with good values and good intentions and a healthy >respect for life and the natural world. I bet that most vegans are educated, fairly well off, mostly white people that have probably never had a bad day. You have to have a pretty stable and peaceful upbringing to be concerned about animal rights at 15; then again, you could just be a weird kid. I'm not suggesting that's bad, but that you come from a somewhat rarified ideal environment (San Francisco too) that allows these concerns to nurture. Vegans get more attention than they deserve rather like the communist manifesto, when it was first published. This is because those ideas threatened the establishment that knows it's basically wrong, but would rather die than change, or have you die for reminding them. >Everyone is entitled to their opinion Now, I'll fight for that. Charlie Kroeger - They intoxicate themselves with work so they won't see how they really are. Aldous Huxley Article 21999 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.comBee (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 13:29:56 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110082956.13159.00001419@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21999 Cow or carrot no matter, something must die to sustain us. Enlightenment comes from the middle path. Tom There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com Article 22000 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:26:27 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Message-ID: <80bv9r$387$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Lines: 15 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22000 Jerry, If you want the best piece of advice from all that's been blown around here so far...... I credit George for putting much of it in its proper place with the following statement. Barry ---------- In article <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "George Styer" wrote: > are reluctant to draw it out. Any foundation must be introduced under the > RIGHT CONDITIONS. Article 22001 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!news.idt.net!newshub.nntp.mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: David Kelley Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:56:41 -0600 Organization: Dept. of Soil, Water, and Climate Lines: 3 Message-ID: <382987A8.1D574C8E@soils.umn.edu> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: x160-46.soils.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22001 Tried one once. Tasted like chicken... Article 22002 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:58:27 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 10 Message-ID: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22002 Hi guys! Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or /ha) for different plants. It would be also nice to have the time and duration of flowering for those plants. Most of the sites are more concerned with the effects of polination on seed production than honey production. Article 22003 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Paulownia Honey Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:02:05 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 9 Message-ID: <382996FC.4D137877@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22003 Hi guys! It's me again. I saw a lot of tall stories on the web about paulownia wonder plant and that is a good honey producer. Can some one give me a ball park estimate of the honey production of Paulownia(lb/acre or kg/ha), time and duration of flowering in the temperate zone? Article 22004 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:56:28 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.215 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942256873 38.31.250.215 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:13 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22004 Tom the BeeCrofter ask: >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big difference. In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided to join the U.S. as a state. It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. My cousin (now dead) once served on a committee in Austin (Texas state capitol) to review the legal implications and possibilities involved with bills sponsored by our respective state representatives. He said they actually did "review" a bill from a certain east texas representative about just that thing: banning sex with chickens. The honorable member was voicing the concerns of some of the industrial chicken and egg producers in his district that were apparently worried this practice would damage business. Charlie Kroeger Article 22005 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail From: steven.turner@zbee.com (Steven Turner) To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Beenet at the National Honey Show Message-ID: <942257494@zbee.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:09:40 +0000 Distribution: world Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/118 7a8ff652 PID: FDAPX/w+ 1.13 EH00015 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.43.78 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 942261486 4119 194.112.32.19 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22005 Hello All, Today Thursday the 10th of November 1999. Come and visit us at the Beenet stand at the National Honey Show in London Steve, Peter, Clive are here to demo Beenet for the whole 3 day event. Pick up a FREE Beenet diskette at our stand. See Peter demo the BIBBA sofware Regards Steve PS. Please send us greetings at the show --- * Origin: Live from the National Honey Show (240:244/118) Article 22006 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3829C864.ED67D1B2@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <38297F4F.4A4BEBFC@twcny.rr.com> <19991110131553.11319.00000292@ngol01.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:34:13 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942262107 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:28:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:28:27 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22006 Jajwuth wrote: > Could somebody counter what the vegan guy is saying about honey being bee barf? > Every time I go for honey I'm thinking of it. > Al "Barf" implies that the bees are sick, or perhaps that the honey is laden with germs. The honey-stomach is not their real stomach where the food they eat is digested. It is just a vessel for the transport and ripening of nectar. If you think about almost any food long enough -- or see how it is processed -- you might find yourself having second thoughts about how "edible" it is. Just think about where milk comes from, or eggs... imo Article 22007 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:17:42 -0800 Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 20 Message-ID: <80ao4t$jbi$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.47.197 X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 942203869 19826 12.72.47.197 (10 Nov 1999 03:17:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 03:17:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22007 So how does a fruititarian vegan reconcile that the bees which pollinate this (some) fruit are enslaved and abused? Just curious as to how far down the line a vegan concerns him or herself. -- Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net To reply via e-mail get the "L" out of there Orangerose wrote in message news:19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com... > > There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part > that kills the entire plant. Article 22008 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cleanfeed.inet.tele.dk!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:17:01 +0100 Organization: EDBi Lines: 20 Message-ID: <80cuc5$13n$2@news.inet.tele.dk> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> <38284C1E.6765BB15@riverace.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip8.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 942275781 1143 195.249.242.8 (10 Nov 1999 23:16:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: Department of Abuse NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 23:16:21 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22008 > >Could you please describe your treatment methods? I'd love to go without >Apistan. Visit this URL, and see how we handle this in Denmark! http://apimo.dk/Varroa_report/varro-report.htm best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 22009 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!iol.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail From: "Peter Edwards" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:50:50 -0000 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 75 Message-ID: <80d14p$bpa$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-23.beryllium.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40" X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 942278617 12074 62.136.1.151 (11 Nov 1999 00:03:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 00:03:37 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22009 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Important thing to consider is when, rather than what. =20 Give any foundation at the wrong time and the bees will ignore or damage = it. Jerry Hathaway wrote in message = news:3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net... =20 What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with? I = have read that the plastics are=20 not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then = Perma-dent? Or should I stick with=20 all wax foundation? Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20 I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting ready.=20 =20 Thank you,=20 =20 Jerry Hathaway=20 Geneseo, Illinois=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Important thing to consider is when, rather than what. 
 
Give any foundation at the wrong time and the bees will ignore or = damage=20 it.
Jerry Hathaway <hathaway@geneseo.net> = wrote in=20 message news:3827A8A5.522355E0@genese= o.net...
 =20

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start = with?  I=20 have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is=20 Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with =
all wax=20 foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting=20 ready.
 =20

      Thank you,
 =20
     Jerry Hathaway =
    =20 Geneseo, Illinois

------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40-- Article 22010 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 114 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 09:16:13 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110041613.02249.00002900@ng-bk1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22010 >> Such vegans often >>do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? > >Extremism is as American as Tom Delay, perfectly normal; >but how come you don't you want a real friend, a nice dog Please read more carefully. I am not one of these vegans--notice how it says "such vegans". And again--read more carefully, I'm not even vegan. I was for two of the fifteen years I've been a vegetarian, though. And no dogs cuz I already have a cat. >If your reasons for not mis-treating animals are well articulated, then >it's only natural to attach that logic to everything we eat. Why? This is not "natural" logic. Animals are not plants (though humans are animals...) If you follow the logic that we can't know if animals or plants have emotions/feelings so veg*ns should err on the side of caution (ie respect the plants right to live free, too) then, for that matter, we don't know for sure that any human other than myself actually feels pain or needs to be free. I can think it, believe it, but I can't *know* it. > I think >for instance that the relentless hybridizing and now genetically >modifying and patenting necessary food plants is evil and should be >stopped. I agree, but not for the same reasons I'm a vegetarian. I try to buy only organic products, I don't shop at big chains, I support my local farmers (including beekeepers) by buying at the farmers market. But that's another story entirely. I believe in the power of the dollar and I exert my power by where I spend my money. >Some people need to have religion, I think that's pretty well >established; but, when they start operating radio and television >stations and are allowed by the state, to accumulate large amounts of >cash and property Still, your average Joe Christian is a nice guy who wants to do good in the world. Just because a few beaurocrats and greedy politicians use Christianity as a front to grab more money/power does not mean most Christians are evil. This is exactly my point about vegans. Just because the only vegans most people see are the animal rights activists throwing red paint on fur coated opera-goers does not mean that most vegans aren't compassionate, non-confrontational people. >Maybe you should come to Amarillo, Texas, join one of those off the wall >christian churches (there are more than 300 odd) and don't forget to >tell them you're a vegan. I'm not. I'm a vegetarian. >You may have to explain what that means, but >after that, you'll be able to formulate a more educated opinion >regarding your above statement. And I grew up a Missouri Synod Lutheran. Went to Sunday school every week, was an acolyte, sang in the children's choir. My mother is a choir director, my grandfather a lay preacher. Why do you think I know that Christians are basically good people? I was surrounded by them for half my life. I would not call my opinion exactly uneducated. >I bet that most vegans are educated, fairly well off, mostly white >people that have probably never had a bad day. You have to have a >pretty stable and peaceful upbringing to be concerned about animal >rights at 15; then again, you could just be a weird kid. I was a weird kid. My dad hunts deer, geese, pheasant, quail, and the occasional rabbit. I ate meat three times a day as a kid, saw half slaughtered deer in the garage from the time I was a toddler, helped my dad clean fish and pull feathers. I'm still not squeamish about meat. Blood and guts don't gross me out. If I was starving, I could kill a chicken, maybe. But my father also raised me with a healthy respect for the natural world. When I discovered the horrible conditions in which animals are raised for food, I was traumatized. Couldn't stop thinking about it. So, in the single minded way 15-year olds sometimes do, I got political. > I'm not >suggesting that's bad, but that you come from a somewhat rarified ideal >environment (San Francisco too) that allows these concerns to nurture. I live here (San Francisco) but I'm not from here. I'm from Delaware. Southern Delaware, if you're familiar with the state. Boondocks, backwater, the sticks, whatever you want to call it. When I moved to California (Sacramento when I was 17) I had never seen an avocado, a punk rocker, or a neo-nazi skinhead. Learned about all those before my 18th birthday, though. Not to ramble about my past: I just want it to be clear that I am not your average white affluent suburban girl who got worried about the poor bunnies and so became a veg*n. >Vegans get more attention than they deserve rather like the communist >manifesto, when it was first published. This is because those ideas >threatened the establishment that knows it's basically wrong, but would >rather die than change, or have you die for reminding them. This is a very interesting thought. I will keep it in mind the next time I get in a why-don't-you-care-about-the-poor-broccoli argument. Might not give me more leverage, but might give me more peace of mind. Also, I forgot the URL in my last post. Here's the website I mentioned: http://www.veganmeat.com/faq.html Just informative. (At least I thought so.) Kelly Article 22011 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cleanfeed.inet.tele.dk!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Residual Apistan buuild up in comb Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:15:25 +0100 Organization: EDBi Lines: 46 Message-ID: <80cuc3$13n$1@news.inet.tele.dk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip8.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 942275779 1143 195.249.242.8 (10 Nov 1999 23:16:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: Department of Abuse NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 23:16:19 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22011 Michel Crichton skrev i meddelelsen ... >Hi all, > >I have a quick question regarding Apistan. I have recently heard that use >of Apistan year after year in a hive will cause a residual amount to build >up in the comb. Is there any truth to this Yes, there is a build up of stuff in wax! >and if so is it harmful to the >consumer? Not as faar as I know, but why take the risk ? >Is there a solution to the problem or do you simply have to scrap your comb >every couple of years Think of using an other way to get ried of the mites, you can start here : http://apimo.dk/Varroa_report/varro-report.htm It shows how we handle this beast here in Denmark best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk . > >Thanks for any input, >Mich > > Article 22012 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-103.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:18:34 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.67 X-Server-Date: 11 Nov 1999 01:16:48 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22012 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > Tom the BeeCrofter ask: > > >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south > > I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's > definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big > difference. > > In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that > shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas > was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided > to join the U.S. as a state. > > It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state > flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. > Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. Interestingly, this puts them (and Dubya, their fearless leader) right up there with such notables as Iraq, Iran, China, and Saudi Arabia, none of which are noted for their commitment to individual liberties or human rights. And, yet, some would STILL trust the rest of the country in the hands of Dubya. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22013 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!WCG!news.nitco.com!not-for-mail From: Chad Howell Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:57:17 -0600 Organization: NetNITCO Internet Services Lines: 42 Message-ID: <382A227C.76845A19@netnitco.net> References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.176.155.143 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hyperion.nitco.com 942286136 25103 216.176.155.143 (11 Nov 1999 02:08:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@netnitco.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 02:08:56 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22013 An eye for an eye. George Bush rules!!!!! Besides it's better than what we've got now or could hope to get from the liberal side. Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > In article , > ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > > > Tom the BeeCrofter ask: > > > > >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south > > > > I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's > > definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big > > difference. > > > > In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that > > shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas > > was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided > > to join the U.S. as a state. > > > > It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state > > flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. > > > > Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it > carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. > Interestingly, this puts them (and Dubya, their fearless leader) right up > there with such notables as Iraq, Iran, China, and Saudi Arabia, none of > which are noted for their commitment to individual liberties or human > rights. > > And, yet, some would STILL trust the rest of the country in the hands of Dubya. > > Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford > STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY > "North America and the Entire World" > http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22014 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:12:27 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 11 Nov 1999 02:13:17 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed Nov 10 18:15:39 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Lines: 21 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004txdallp334.dialsprint.net Message-ID: Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22014 hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) wrote: >Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil >and crimp wire the same. Duragilt and wax foundation may be drawn out the same way initially, but when there is damage from moth larva or a mouse, the bees will not rebuild the Duragilt - The beekeeper is left with bare plastic. The bees are much more likely to rebuild wax foundation. Frames with Duragilt near the entrance that get chewed back are also never rebuilt by the bees. 100% plastic foundation like Plasticell does create beautiful worker cell patterns and is easy to "pop in" to wood frames, but wax foundation gets drawn out better in a mild nectar flow. -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas jcaldeira@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ Article 22015 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:45:47 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.217 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942288632 38.31.250.217 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:50:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:50:32 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22015 Kevin Johnson said: >grrrrrrrrrr......... come on Kevin, don't set the hounds on me I'm just funnin' you here. Charlie Kroeger Article 22016 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!u-2.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:04:28 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <80bi5u$sao$3@news1.Radix.Net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p4.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22016 Jerry Hathaway wrote: > >  >

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >I have read that the plastics are >
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >Or should I stick with >
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. >

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >ready. >
  Don't get me started on Duraguilt. The guilt part comes from Dadant selling this shit to unsuspecting people and stealing their money. The Dura part is from the fact that Dadant has continued to sell it for years. It is absolute trash so don't waste your money. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22017 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 11:34:23 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22017 >who was on about fornicators spreading aids >with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. grrrrrrrrrr......... Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22018 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: harrisonrw@aol.com (HarrisonRW) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 11 Nov 1999 11:39:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991111063915.04653.00000003@ng-ce1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22018 >Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it >carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. Are these people who left apistan strips in longer than 42 days :) Article 22019 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:47:12 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.129 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22019 This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. This might be one plus for using Plasticell or Pierco type foundation. In the end, ALL types of foundation will work and ALL types have their drawbacks. Unfortunately, this thread got off to a bad start when Jerry asked, "What is the best foundation" of which the reply should have been, "there isn't a best, just a lot of different kinds to choose from." -Barry ---------- In article <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com>, hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) wrote: > But they always fix with drone comb .. so this is not a valid point. > > IMHO > > Dave > On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:12:27 -0600, John Caldeira > wrote: > >>Duragilt and wax foundation may be drawn out the same way initially, >>but when there is damage from moth larva or a mouse, the bees will not >>rebuild the Duragilt - The beekeeper is left with bare plastic. The >>bees are much more likely to rebuild wax foundation. Article 22020 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.comBee (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 13:27:13 GMT References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22020 >>who was on about fornicators spreading aids >>with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. > >grrrrrrrrrr......... > > >Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > Hmmm I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south Tom There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com Article 22021 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!psinr!nr1.ottawa.istar.net!not-for-mail From: "Michel Crichton" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Residual Apistan buuild up in comb Lines: 13 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.53.180.130 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:25 EDT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22021 Hi all, I have a quick question regarding Apistan. I have recently heard that use of Apistan year after year in a hive will cause a residual amount to build up in the comb. Is there any truth to this and if so is it harmful to the consumer? Does it affect the taste/smell/appearance of the honey produced? Is there a solution to the problem or do you simply have to scrap your comb every couple of years. Thanks for any input, Mich Article 22022 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382989B1.AB42EAD3@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:06:25 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942246065 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:01:05 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:01:05 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22022 Charlie Kroeger wrote: > [...] Lots of bees die when it comes to removing their honey. [...] It's practically impossible to not kill *any* bees, but many of us do try to minimize that, even if it does takes a little more time during manipulations. To try and avoid "bee mashing" is in our best interest anyway -- release of alarm pheromones is reduced, and consequently the bees don't get so riled up. Colony life can then resume, with little disturbance. At the very least, we don't burn or sulphur the bees like they did way-back-when. (Generally. Some find it more economical to kill the bees off after harvest, but AFAIK the practice is not too common. Maybe I'm mistaken on this?) Article 22023 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <38296D9D.71EAB928@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: info on ANP inserts? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:06:26 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942238873 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:13 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!biko.cc.rochester.edu!news.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22023 What's the deal with the ANP plastic combs, with the tapered cell walls -- how does the cell design lend itself to "biological" varroa control? Does it interfere with mites entering the cells w/larvae, or does it affect the development time of the brood? Has anyone on the ng. tried them? I'm not considering them for use but wondered what the idea was behind the design. Not even sure that they are still on the market these days. thanks jg Article 22024 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!u-2.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:48:23 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: <80eqn1$kj$1@news1.Radix.Net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p48.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22024 "Barry Birkey" wrote: >This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation >type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. This might be one >plus for using Plasticell or Pierco type foundation. In the end, ALL types >of foundation will work and ALL types have their drawbacks. >Unfortunately, this thread got off to a bad start when Jerry asked, "What is >the best foundation" of which the reply should have been, "there isn't a >best, just a lot of different kinds to choose from." >-Barry The true test is five years from now when you start throwing out the durapuke foundation frames. I cuss it and Dadant constantly every I go though a hive and find sheets of plastic where the bees have chewed the wax off. The new HD foundations like rite-cell are the only way to go. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22025 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <38297FFA.FE284899@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991110082956.13159.00001419@ng-cr1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:24:49 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942243570 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:19:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:19:30 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!biko.cc.rochester.edu!news.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22025 Saw the vegan web page on beekeeping a few weeks ago and found it rather disturbing. Lots of hair-splitting. Some people have way too much time on their hands. If it weren't for beekeepers (largely) there wouldn't be honey bees around nowadays anyway. You might even say that we bee-folks are involved in "conservation," & helping a threatened species. Very noble, eh? Give us each a gold star. What a time to be alive. You can even get vegetarian dog food now. So your dog doesn't have to be immoral. If I could only convince my cats that they should eat greens, and leave the damn rodents alone. They're really good cats, evidently just mistaken, or just not enlightened yet. -j. Article 22026 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 18:15:53 GMT References: <38297F4F.4A4BEBFC@twcny.rr.com> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991110131553.11319.00000292@ngol01.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22026 Could somebody counter what the vegan guy is saying about honey being bee barf? Every time I go for honey I'm thinking of it. Al Article 22027 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:13:21 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <382AEB21.3530@midwest.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22027 John Caldeira wrote: > > 100% plastic foundation like Plasticell does create beautiful worker > cell patterns and is easy to "pop in" to wood frames, but wax > foundation gets drawn out better in a mild nectar flow. > > -John > > John Caldeira I've been following this thread waiting for someone to ask about Rite-cell foundation - guess I get to be the one. It is all I've used since I started this hobby two years ago and as far as I know it works pretty well. I'm a bit on the lazy side and a bit short of time so the plastic was just the ticket. What I don't know is how Rite-cell compares with Plasticell - are these one and the same item or is there a substantial difference in design? AL Article 22028 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:24:16 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 27 Message-ID: <382B17E0.45EC5899@msx.upmc.edu> References: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> <80e71k$b02$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22028 busybee wrote: > Unless I'm not understanding your question--this will always remain a > mystery! There are too many variables to accurately get an exact > "guess-timate". How about the average in 4-5 years and 2-3 places. The average doesn't lie (too much). > > > --Busybee > > Silviu-Alin Bacanu wrote in message <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu>... > >Hi guys! > > > >Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or > >/ha) for different plants. > >It would be also nice to have the time and duration of flowering for > >those plants. > >Most of the sites are more concerned with the effects of polination on > >seed production > >than honey production. > > Article 22029 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: <1S8qOJCrwmwC6cKl9N8fxYLKkYbu@4ax.com> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:56:15 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.217 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942289260 38.31.250.217 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:01:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:01:00 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22029 R. Foust confesses: >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... Your dad has done a bad thing R. Foust. Charlie Kroeger Article 22030 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.newsfirst.net!mojo.crosslink.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382A3953.F9EB500@crosslink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:34:43 -0500 From: "L.E.G." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: CrossLink Internet Services 1-888-4-CROSSLINK Cache-Post-Path: pizza.crosslink.net!unknown@206.246.74.13 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.246.124.14 X-Trace: mojo.crosslink.net 942290919 10762 206.246.124.14 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22030 "E. Rogers" wrote: > Bob Pursley wrote in message > <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com>... > >In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" > > >writes: > > > > > >Why cant folks read labels and follow them? > > > >Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of > breeding > >drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer > >forever. > > I disagree, that is all the beekeepers in this area of SW Minnesota have > gone out of business using apistan. They put there trust in this product by > paying their premium price. Most comercial beekeepers, I talked to > personally, feel that some of the windfall profits should have gone into > research for alturnative treatments. But no, the Apistan people just kept > their profits. As a result beekeepers were left begging for a new > treatment, and it looks like those beekeepers will be left paying high > prices for those treatments. This tells me that the apistan people could > give a rats a_ _ about the beekeeper who truly needs a cure for the varroa > mite. > > I am one beekeeper that has not used apistan for the past 3 years and is > 100% mite free. When I started with 25 colonies 3 years ago I threw the > worthless apistan out and started looking for alturnative treatments. I now > have over 100 colonies and very healthy bees. > > As I see it the only thing worse than the varroa mite on the bees, is the > blood sucking chemical companies on the backs of hard working beekeepers > that are trying to make a buck with bees. All this with the blessing of the > federal government. As I keep increasing in size each year I do understand > every dollar I keep from the blood suckers the more I will have for > improvements or family life. > > Good luck with your mite problems or blood sucker problems. > > Elroy OK Elroy if you are 100% mite free "What's your secret?" Please share and we can all help to take some pocket change from the "BLOOD SUCKERS" L.E.G. Article 22031 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!u-2.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:21:15 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: <80fami$297$1@news1.Radix.Net> References: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> <80e71k$b02$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <382B17E0.45EC5899@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p34.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22031 Silviu-Alin Bacanu wrote: >busybee wrote: >> Unless I'm not understanding your question--this will always remain a >> mystery! There are too many variables to accurately get an exact >> "guess-timate". >How about the average in 4-5 years and 2-3 places. The average doesn't lie >(too much). Yes it can. You can take a good nectar producing plant from one area and plant it in a different type of soil and it won't produce a drop. Buckwheat for example produces a good crop in the PA area but provide s bees in Southern MD mostly pollen. The same is true for many other plants as well. Soil has a LOT to do with nectar production.Time of bloom is also a factor. If another floral sorce of greater sugar content is in bloom the bees will work it and ignor the lessor even though it could provide a surplus. You must fully understand the area that you are in first before you plant. Read some of Ayer's research also as he has studied bee planting for years. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22032 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!WCG!news.randori.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Message-ID: <382b39c8.30785234@news.usenetserver.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 5 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:43:43 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:50:05 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22032 On additional point is that while I have a good wiring board and can do crimp wire about as fast as duraguilt. Most people starting out don't have a wiring board. Dave Article 22033 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:10:31 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 42 Message-ID: <382B3ED5.17E1560A@msx.upmc.edu> References: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> <80e71k$b02$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <382B17E0.45EC5899@msx.upmc.edu> <80fami$297$1@news1.Radix.Net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22033 honeybs wrote: > Silviu-Alin Bacanu wrote: > > >busybee wrote: > > >> Unless I'm not understanding your question--this will always remain a > >> mystery! There are too many variables to accurately get an exact > >> "guess-timate". > > >How about the average in 4-5 years and 2-3 places. The average doesn't lie > >(too much). > > Yes it can. You can take a good nectar producing plant from > one area and plant it in a different type of soil and it > won't produce a drop. Buckwheat for example produces a good > crop in the PA area but provide s bees in Southern MD mostly > pollen. The same is true for many other plants as well. > Soil has a LOT to do with nectar production.Time of bloom is > also a factor. If another floral sorce of greater sugar > content is in bloom the bees will work it and ignor the > lessor even though it could provide a surplus. You must > fully understand the area that you are in first before you > plant. > > Read some of Ayer's research also as he has studied bee > planting for years. Where can I find that? Is it on the web? > > > Greg the beekeep > > // Bee Just & Just Bee! > =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA > \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs > > Article 22034 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: "Howard Bowles" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Results of aerial pesticide applications in Florida Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:01:22 -0800 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 6 Message-ID: <80feed$i7v$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.73.104.14 X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 942357773 18687 12.73.104.14 (11 Nov 1999 22:02:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 22:02:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22034 Interesting suppositions offered up in this article on CNN's web page. Notice what is used as the 'carrier' of the pesticide. http://www.cnn.com/NATURE/9911/11/pesticidesickness.ap/index.html Article 22035 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news.fh-hannover.de!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-183-228.phnx.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:52:12 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> <382A227C.76845A19@netnitco.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.b7.e4 X-Server-Date: 11 Nov 1999 07:52:58 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22035 In article <382A227C.76845A19@netnitco.net>, Chad Howell wrote: > An eye for an eye. George Bush rules!!!!! Besides it's better than what we've got > now or could hope to get from the liberal side. > Ahhh... that's the problem with these off topic threads... ya just dunno WHERE they'll lead... Don't get me started about Dubya... -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22036 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.laserlink.net!not-for-mail From: "party2go" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:07:01 -0600 Lines: 12 Message-ID: <80g3o4$hv8$1@news.laserlink.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <80bi5u$sao$3@news1.Radix.Net> Reply-To: "party2go" NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust223.tnt18.dfw5.da.uu.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22036 I bought some used hives that had both the duragilt and the plasticell. I am a newbie and thought I needed to scrape off all of the old wax because it was a dark color. Hind sight 20/20. The bees drew the plasticell back out beautifully. I had to scrape pretty hard to get that old wax off, so I'm sure I gouged it pretty good a few times. Had to throw the duragilt away. Once you start scraping duragilt it just falls apart. Also the bees don't chew it up like the other foundations. I put in cut comb in a super this year and the bees just chewed it to pieces not one frame was drawn out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you have to re-use foundation the plasticell worked excellent for me. However I'm still a newbie. Good luck! Article 22037 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.cs.com!not-for-mail From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Royal Jelly Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.cs.com X-Admin: news@cs.com Date: 12 Nov 1999 04:11:39 GMT Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Message-ID: <19991111231139.02091.00000278@ng-fc1.news.cs.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22037 Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Royal Jelly? If so approximately how many cells does it take to make an ounce and what is an ounce going for these days. And what the hell is propolis good for and how can I make money with it? ;) Oh... and does anyone have any recipes for things such as beeswax furniture polish or handcremes? Thanks Robert Williamson Southeast Texas Honey Co. P.O. Box 176 Vidor, Tx. 77670 " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 22038 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.intelenet.net!not-for-mail From: "Dads quik news" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3814417D.D070A00@twcny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Excluder Variability Lines: 4 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <2ywW3.9182$I16.319969@newsfeed.intelenet.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:05:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.176.1.97 X-Complaints-To: abuse@quik.com X-Trace: newsfeed.intelenet.net 942314750 216.176.1.97 (Thu, 11 Nov 1999 02:05:50 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 02:05:50 PST Organization: Quik Internet -- http://www.quik.com/ Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22038 that kind of suprises me too! I have heard of bees above an excluder drawing out a queen,but not mating then going through one. Article 22039 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail From: "busybee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 04:44:34 -0600 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <80e6n5$l7s$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-165-70.nas2.lec.gblx.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 942317093 21756 209.130.165.70 (11 Nov 1999 10:44:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 10:44:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22039 Beekeeping tasks wait not for time nor man (time and ______ wait for no one?...the old saying which for the life of me cannot think what it is right now) ;-P... The point I'm trying to make is--you should always be thinking ahead to the next step in the process because its always later than you think. I know of two people who started a partnership to tend 100 hives. Each one had professional careers, families, and other non-beekeeping obligations--but they thought they could easily manage these colonies together for sheer "entertainment" and added income. They did ok for awhile but finally went "belly-up" this past year. One of the partners confided to me (he being the one who did *all* of the work)...when he asked his partner when he could help with the extracting (feeding, supering, etc.) he would say things like "I can help for an hour or two a week from Thursday!" (chuckle) What is NOT so funny...are those who do not pull apistan strips as instructed on the package! It sure makes it tougher for the rest to fight the battle against drug resistant mites! Do not be lazy when it comes to something like this! --Busybee R. Foust wrote in message <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>... >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. > Article 22040 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail From: "busybee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 04:50:09 -0600 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <80e71k$b02$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-165-70.nas2.lec.gblx.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 942317428 11266 209.130.165.70 (11 Nov 1999 10:50:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 10:50:28 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22040 Unless I'm not understanding your question--this will always remain a mystery! There are too many variables to accurately get an exact "guess-timate". --Busybee Silviu-Alin Bacanu wrote in message <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu>... >Hi guys! > >Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or >/ha) for different plants. >It would be also nice to have the time and duration of flowering for >those plants. >Most of the sites are more concerned with the effects of polination on >seed production >than honey production. > Article 22041 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.primenet.com.MISMATCH!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail From: "busybee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: ISQ answered with another ISQ??? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 05:08:11 -0600 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 42 Message-ID: <80e83e$l70$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-165-70.nas2.lec.gblx.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 942318510 21728 209.130.165.70 (11 Nov 1999 11:08:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 11:08:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22041 ShoersBabe wrote in message <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com>... >Hello, > >I have the world's dumbest question. I frequent a message board on AOL and the >conversation has turned to honey. I was asking the resident vegan why she does >not eat honey when it is the only truly cruelty-free food. have now been >asked to back up my assertation that it is, in fact, cruelty free. > >Can anyone turn me towards a link or three with this information? Chances of >my making it back over to this newsgroup are small, so an e-mail would be >infinitely appreciated. > > > >Carolyn >You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, >they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes.-Walter M. >Schirra, Sr. >Let's Get Dangerous -- Darkwing Duck First of all, I do not understand the vegan philosophy...please correct me if I'm wrong... Vegans do not eat or wear products which have harmed or killed any living *unit*??? I believe there are shades-of-gray vegans from mild to extreme. I can respect their beliefs and their efforts to carry out these beliefs in their lifestyles but I find it difficult to believe that an extreme vegan could not profess to be one without being hypocritical. Please also answer why vegan is spelled veg*n... --Busybee (I'm trying to be open-minded) Article 22042 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Nov 1999 11:39:14 GMT References: <19991111231139.02091.00000278@ng-fc1.news.cs.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991112063914.02104.00000340@ng-fc1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22042 >And what the hell is propolis good for and how can I make money with it? ;) propolis tinchure is a very strong anti bacterial and is sold for @ 15.00 an ounce Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22043 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:53:27 -0500 From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping To: Orangerose Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: d-p1-27.clinic.net X-Trace: 12 Nov 1999 06:58:16 -0500, d-p1-27.clinic.net Lines: 19 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.destek.net!d-p1-27.clinic.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22043 Orangerose wrote:a whole bunch more than this I have respect for and am a little jealous of people who > can think for themselves yet remain religious. A very condescending statement but it mirrors our age. It means well but contradicts itself. And gives superiority to the writer since, obviously whatever they believe is right because they are a thinker who knows the truth. We are all religious, even if we believe in nothing it is a belief. So any thinking person who believes is wrong, because to believe you must not think. And those who do not think are wrong too, because they do not think. Explains a lot about New Age thought process, or the absence thereof. Bill T -- If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly. Article 22044 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Message-ID: <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 14 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:40:35 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:46:58 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22044 But they always fix with drone comb .. so this is not a valid point. IMHO Dave On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:12:27 -0600, John Caldeira wrote: >Duragilt and wax foundation may be drawn out the same way initially, >but when there is damage from moth larva or a mouse, the bees will not >rebuild the Duragilt - The beekeeper is left with bare plastic. The >bees are much more likely to rebuild wax foundation. Article 22045 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Ellen Anglin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382AEB21.3530@midwest.net> Subject: Re: Best foundation? Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:17:43 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.69.69.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 942416689 209.69.69.150 (Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:24:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:24:49 GMT Organization: Verio Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22045 I have used both Rite- cell and Plasti- cell and they are both great! The shape of the cell foundation is a little different- I think the Plasticell has a sharper edge, (Correct me someone if I am mixing these up) and is slightly deeper to start out. I have watched a young queen in my obsevation hive laying in this foundation before the workers had begun to visibly draw it out. My (And My helpers) main complaint with Pierco all plastic frames is that they are hard to hold onto when uncapping. They slip, especially when your hands are wet with honey, and they flex and slip as you are handling them. At this years uncapping party my helpers suggested unanimously that I shouldn't buy any more all plastic frames for extracting. They are great brood frames tho.... Ellen > What I don't know is how Rite-cell compares > with Plasticell - are these one and the same item or is there a > substantial difference in design? > > > > AL Article 22046 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991110041613.02249.00002900@ng-bk1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 190 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 00:45:48 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.11.203.200 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942389432 38.11.203.200 (Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:50:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:50:32 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22046 Kelly corrects: >And again--read more carefully, I'm not even vegan. I was for >two of the fifteen years I've been a vegetarian, though. erk..I did read that, but preferred to speak of you as the collective you regarding the stance you wished to explain, that is vegan, even though you are now just vegetarian, a wise choice when it comes to eating, in my opinion. >Animals are not plants (though humans are >animals...) If you follow the logic that Well if the Eastern philosophies are to be believed, (and they're very old) it would seem even without the advantage of modern science to explain that all living things contain the same DNA, and have a common connection. (I'm sorry you missed our lively discussion on Prions a month or so back, Prions don't bother with DNA, they just use yours.) The Eastern thinkers believed long before DNA that we as humans were merely part of the whole picture, the big one, the universe and everything that holds it. We did not stand out as having dominion over all. Science has more or less proved that they were right, at least for what passes for living things within our understanding. Maybe rocks live, I don't know, but cabbages do. >we can't know if animals or plants have emotions/feelings I like to believe we can, and they do. If you had a nice dog for a pet instead of a cat, but even cats too, show emotion, well maybe not your cat, but some do and all dogs do and to say they don't have feelings just tells me you are in that 25 to 30 age bracket, a member of a more ruthless and uncaring bunch of youths that ever walked the planet. Well, I'm sure you're an exception. I was reading just yesterday in the November/December issue of "Tikkun" in the Environment section about eating fish, and down a bit to a sub section called: "compassion for animals" A Dr. Donald Bloom, professor of animal welfare at Cambridge University, reminds us that "the scientific literature is quite clear:" "Anatomically, physiologically, and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals." Dr. Tom Hopkins, professor of marine science at the University of Alabama, says that hooked fish struggle because of physical pain and fear. He also goes on to say that most of the trout, catfish, and many other species eaten in the United States are raised in modern "fish factories" where they are subject to the same intensive, crowded conditions as land farm animals. Modern aquaculture trends involve large-scale, highly mechanized fish production, much like the chicken industry. Like crowded broiler chickens, fish are crammed in enormous pools called "raceways," where they are pushed to gain weight far faster than is natural. Experiments aim to find the greatest number of fish that can be raised per cubic foot of water in order to maximize profits. Under these very crowded, unnatural conditions, fish suffer from stress, infections, parasites, oxygen depletion, and "gas bubble disease" akin to "the bends" in human beings. To prevent the spread of diseases among the fish, large amounts of antibiotics are used. And think on this: Egrets, hawks, and other birds who eat fish are often shot or poisoned to prevent them from eating fish at large open pools where fish are raised. In one documented case, a California company with a U.S. Fish and Wildlife permit to shoot 50 birds annually in the late 1980's was estimated to have killed 10,000 or 15,000 birds, including many species not listed on the permit. Anyway, the article contains a lot of interesting information on fish like they are the biggest source of PCB's. You remember them, used to be made by Monsanto, along with Agent Orange, but now they only do GM crops. PCB's are now banned from production in the U.S. but can be used. So PCB's must be made somewhere because their use is not outlawed here or other places; isn't that nice. You know another thing about PCB's they accumulate in body tissue and will be with you decades into the future. >I agree, but not for the same reasons I'm a vegetarian. I try to buy only >organic products, I don't shop at big chains, I support my local farmers >(including beekeepers) by buying at the farmers market. Good, you're doing the right thing. >Still, your average Joe Christian is a nice guy who wants to do good in the >world. Just because a few beaurocrats and greedy politicians use Christianity >as a front to grab more money/power does not mean most Christians are evil. I'm afraid you don't get it, but what you are saying then is your average joe christian may be a nice guy but he's also a tool. Nice guy maybe, but the evidence says (collapse of a caring social democracy in the U.S., expansion of the military industrial complex, and concentration of the wealth into a small percentage of the population) he's either more likely not to be, or he doesn't vote. You may rationalize their supposed goodness based on your background, but this evidence is out of date. At the moment, christianity is trendy, so it is hard to judge what effect it will have over a long period of time. I suspect a dropping off after the first of the year. As a society we're less caring and more greedy than we've ever been. We imprison more people as a growth industry than any country in the world; it should also be noted that as convicted felons they can never vote again and they cannot own a gun, at least legally, and most of them are black. We send messages to kids not to use illegal drugs while promoting the widespread use of prescription drugs. People who feel depressed are given psycho tropics like prosac to make them forget their grimy reality and live in a world of drug induced bliss where they're invited to believe they're living productive lives. Then we have this curious phenomenon of kids going nuts with guns and shooting up their school. I wonder why a christian caring god fearing country would produce events like that? Americans work more than any other industrialized nation, and yet we have the worst public health services for instance, while our welfare services have been "reformed" at the expense of our poorest citizens, and the tax laws enrich the already rich. The Mexican state of Tamalipas which can not even measure on a scale against the wealth of the state of texas nonetheless pays out more welfare payments to its needy citizens than the state of Texas. Decisions as to who is needy in texas and other states now has been recently changed to give this power to the caring concern of state governments and their compassionate christian members. I don't know as much about other states as texas but although texas does have a couple of concerned politicians, to be sure, for the most part they're all conservative republican or conservative democrat christians. They're voting records indicate they are bought and paid for by the companies who contribute to their financial needs. (the texas supreme court is so corrupt it's right out of a west african military dictatorship) and are to a man and woman, anti environmental completely. Their environmental voting is second only to those even more christian representatives in oklahoma who have never voted for the environment on any issue. (source: the league of conservation voters. www.lcv.org) These are not signs that joe christian is a good guy, or he would not have elected these demons to office. As I see it evil is in the ascendant. I don't expect you to accept that concept as such, but where do you think evil might do it's work, what would be the best vehicle to promote its designs? You know the devil drives down 5th avenue in his cadillac with the darkened windows, and his hair is perfect. He's on his way to an interview with Charlie Rose to promote his new book, and he looks marvelous. It's like I'm trying to say the issues you are on about and what we are discussing here are little truths hidden in the big lie. Americans of your socio economic level, do good by the things you've already suggested, like supporting your local food producers and you probably recycle. However if you fit the norm, you are completely un politicized and maybe you have a degree that certifies you are educated; but, by your privileged position within that economic group, (i.e. you will never have to work as a waitress for $2 an hour) you are insulated from the reality you and your contemporaries, perhaps of the digerati, (i'm guessing you work within the new technologies from something you said) as it were, are nevertheless unsophisticated and unable to see a larger more sinister event evolving. It's like this, when a country says it believes in god and supposedly follows the teachings of god's son, a large majority of it's citizens are saying they are guided by a religion that invites them to care about something other than themselves, but the reality (as Jesus said, do not look at the tree, but the fruit) is completely different, and all the higher values on paper are subjugated to profit perhaps or acquisition, i'm not sure; and, the society reacts like an abused child or an alcoholic; it collectively denies what is happening and what has happened, and does for itself the best it can, and thusly contributes to the wrong thing gaining in strength. This is America today; this was Germany in the 1930's. Charlie Kroeger Article 22047 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 114 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Nov 1999 08:20:59 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22047 I was gonna let this whole thing drop seein' as it's so off-topic and maybe boring to everyone but me n' Charlie, but I really can't restrain myself because of one line. >However if you fit the norm, you are completely un politicized and maybe >you have a degree that certifies you are educated; but, by your >privileged position within that economic group, (i.e. you will never >have to work as a waitress for $2 an hour) you are insulated from the >reality you and your I have to say I am ROTFLMAO. You remember what they say about assume? I *am* a waitress. Have been for ten years. Leaving home after dropping out of high school does not exactly put me in a position qualified for much else, no matter what kind of intellect I have. Working in the service industry gives one an interesting view of the world. Waitresses are at the bottom of the social ladder, below even garbage men in sociological studies. I happen to work in a neighborhood bar/restaurant that caters to an extrememly gentrified clientele: Perry's is frequented by politicians, newspaper men, stock brokers, and the socialites that want to catch them. I have a very intimate knowledge of the gap between rich (them) and not-so-rich (me). So there you go. If it's any consolation, I am now, at 29, in my sophmore year at a community college, working towards transfer to a university. So, since I'm here, I can't resist further comment~sigh~: >>we can't know if animals or plants have emotions/feelings > >I like to believe we can, and they do. If you had a nice dog for a pet >instead of a cat, but even cats too, show emotion, well maybe not your >cat, but some do and all dogs do and to say they don't have feelings >just tells me you are in that 25 to 30 age bracket, a member of a more >ruthless and uncaring bunch of youths that ever walked the planet. >Well, I'm sure you're an exception. I am, of course, an exception. ~BG~ It was a rhetorical remark. I have no doubt that animals have and express feelings. My cat definitely has emotions, and I have no doubt as to the pain response in other animals.. The point is that I can *believe* in the ability of animals to feel emotions/pain, but I can't prove it scientifically. For which matter, it can't be proven scientifically that other humans feel pain/emotions--after all, they can only tell us verbally--not exactly acceptable proof to a scientist. We each have the responsibility to live within our own consciences--I do not find it abhorrent that some people can know about how chickens are raised for food and still eat them. I *do* find it abhorrent when someone has an inkling of the conditions and refuses to learn more or believe more because then they won't want to eat chicken anymore. I know how honeybees are kept. My conscience does not twinge when I eat honey. It does when I eat meat. I have to thank you for posting such an interesting bit on fish-raising, though. My SO tends to think that fish is okay, even though he calls himself a vegetarian. I will not preach at him, but I think he will find the information compelling. If not, well...I guess he'll still eat fish sometimes, huh? What is Tikkun? Sounds interesting. Do they have a website? One final thing, >(I'm sorry you missed our lively discussion on Prions a month or so >back, Prions don't bother with DNA, they just use yours.) I was here. Been lurking for..oh...half a year or so. I found out about the SF Beekeeper's Association because of this ng. Might even get my own bees next summer. ~smile~ I don't always jump into these discussions because it takes me awhile to write responses, and I always should be doing something else. This subject and the response it engendered compelled me to respond. I followed the prion thing too, but mostly just scanned the posts. Made a note to myself to learn more about prions during winter break, though. > At the moment, christianity is trendy, so it >is hard to judge what effect it will have over a long period of time. I >suspect a dropping off after the first of the year. > I wasn't aware of the trend. (Sometimes I feel like I live in a walled city) I certainly hadn't thought about the affect of the Y2K hysteria on religious fervor. It's an astute observation. >As a society we're less caring and more greedy than we've ever been. This may be true, but we don't have to surrender to it. I feel the stubborn, contrary urge to do what is unexpected: to give every person the benefit of the doubt, to assume innocence, to be generous, to stand up against greed and corruption and intolerance. Just because the rest of society is moving towards evil, doesn't mean I have to live in fear. If I don't believe that most people are basically harmless, then I have to live in fear. I know things are different regarding Christians in the south--but anyone I've ever met who really lived a christian life was basically a good person. The problem isn't Christianity or Christians, per se. It's people who cannot think for themselves. I have respect for and am a little jealous of people who can think for themselves yet remain religious. I better cut it out now, or I'll go on forever. Thanks for an interesting conversation. Sincerely, Kelly Article 22048 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Nov 1999 22:09:17 GMT References: <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22048 > I have respect for and am a little jealous of people who >> can think for themselves yet remain religious. > >A very condescending statement but it mirrors our age. It means well but >contradicts itself. And gives superiority to the writer since, obviously >whatever they believe is right because they are a thinker who knows the >truth. >We are all religious, even if we believe in nothing it is a belief. >So any thinking person who believes is wrong, because to believe you must >not think. And those who do not think are wrong too, because they do not >think. Maybe I should have said "spiritual" instead of "religious". It takes more dedication to one's own happiness than I have to really try to understand a religious faith--that is to defy the current intellectual climate and embrace a spiritual life. It takes guts, intellect, and drive. I think that these people, to the contrary, are superior to me. To follow a religion blindly is easy. To really seek truth is hard. I recently saw a program on PBS about the Pope and I was struck with the humanness of him. He is a deeply intellectual man, and a deeply religious man. As is the Dalai Lama, as was Mahatma Ghandi. Religious faith reconciled with intellect/analytical thought. It is to be admired. Kelly Article 22049 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:46:47 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 23 Message-ID: <80i436$cil$3@news1.Radix.Net> References: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> <80e71k$b02$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <382B17E0.45EC5899@msx.upmc.edu> <80fami$297$1@news1.Radix.Net> <382B3ED5.17E1560A@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p17.a3.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22049 Silviu-Alin Bacanu wrote: >> Read some of Ayer's research also as he has studied bee >> planting for years. >Where can I find that? Is it on the web? Back issues of the beekeeping rags would be a good place to start. ABJ I think. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22050 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Nov 1999 22:55:14 GMT References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22050 can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22051 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news1.bewellnet.com!news.bewellnet.com!cos232.bewell.net From: "Shealy/Van Zandt" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bees and smoke Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:00:20 -0700 Organization: Bewell Net Lines: 33 Message-ID: <382cbcfb.0@news.bewellnet.com> References: <19991107114743.05023.00000283@ngol07.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.54.96.248 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news1.bewellnet.com 942455020 29596 209.54.96.248 (13 Nov 1999 01:03:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@bewellnet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 1999 01:03:40 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: cos232.bewell.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22051 The difference is the time that the smoke (fire) is applied. In the first example, the wild bees have "given up" to the fire and left the hive. They are full of honey and ready for a flight to the new hive. BTW this appears as a swarm. In the second, the beekeeper uses the smoke sparingly, but just enough to keep the bees convinced there is a fire coming, so they just keep eating honey and let him do his work, satiated and mellow. Mikey Jajwuth wrote in message news:19991107114743.05023.00000283@ngol07.aol.com... > In the third world countries where people gather/hunt wild honey applied smoke > and fire cause the bees to flee the nest. The comb is usually unprotected in a > tree or under a overhanging rock. > > Smoke used in modern beekeeping cause the bees to move inward and gouge > themselves with honey and makes them more passive. > > The above is my understanding correct me if i am wrong. > > Is the difference in behaviour caused by the amount of smoke or technique or > bee differences? > > al Article 22052 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!ratbert.tds.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382CC4E8.5642054D@tds.net> From: jbirt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 01:50:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.70.100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 942457812 208.170.70.100 (Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:50:12 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:50:12 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22052 a big amen to that, Big Hk1BeeMan wrote: > can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? > > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22053 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!WCG!news.nitco.com!not-for-mail From: Chad Howell Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: carolina beekeepers Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:20:57 -0600 Organization: NetNITCO Internet Services Lines: 5 Message-ID: <382CE729.38C3D1E@netnitco.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: valpo-quad-1-45.netnitco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hyperion.nitco.com 942467560 25024 216.176.149.45 (13 Nov 1999 04:32:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@netnitco.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 1999 04:32:40 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22053 How did you all fair regarding the hurricanes. We haven't heard much lately. I was wondering what happened with the county governments spraying pesticides in the middle of the day? Chad Article 22054 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382D70FC.58097F38@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:09:03 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942501872 24.24.11.73 (Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:04:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:04:32 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22054 Hk1BeeMan wrote: > can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? > > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC ...but for many of us the bee-work is all done for the year. We're bored! Got right down to ethics, politics AND religion pretty quick, eh? Article 22055 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <382D8C7D.911BF523@zzclinic.net> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:06:21 -0500 From: Bill Truesdell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <382D70FC.58097F38@twcny.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: d-p7-61.clinic.net X-Trace: 13 Nov 1999 11:11:31 -0500, d-p7-61.clinic.net Lines: 19 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.destek.net!d-p7-61.clinic.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22055 JGinNY wrote: > > Hk1BeeMan wrote: > > > can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? > > > > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > > ...but for many of us the bee-work is all done for the year. We're > bored! > > Got right down to ethics, politics AND religion pretty quick, eh? All that is required for this thread to follow normal newsgroup downward progression and meet its ultimate end is for "Hitler" to be mentioned. And since I just mentioned it, it is ended. Bill T -- If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly. Article 22056 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 10:42:31 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.195 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942511636 38.31.250.195 (Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:47:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:47:16 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22056 Bill T says: >So any thinking person who believes is wrong, not necessarily, you can think and still have faith. Some people want and need to be a member of a religion. I just want them to keep it to themselves. > because to believe you must not think. why is that? > And those who do not think are wrong too those who do not think probably can't. >because they do not think because they're stupid. I suggest further research on this subject by watching afternoon television chat shows on American network television. >We are all religious, even if we believe in nothing it is a belief. You've said a rather pointless thing which leads me to think you must be a philosophy professor. There is difference in religion and belief, but the outcome is the same and therefore pointless, rather like those philosophers who say a chair you can see is not "really" there. If you want to be religious, you need faith. Believing is actually knowing something tangible like: Pi (3.14159265358979323846...) which is The ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle. I believe Pi is really there. Take the story of moses and the red sea, now you can only believe this if you have faith that what you read in the bible is true. If I choose not to believe the story, you can't convince me, because you can't prove it really happened. On the other hand I can prove to you that Pi exist, because there is nothing about getting the right answer in math that requires faith. You can always choose to not believe the bleeding obvious, like "the flat earth society." The outcome is that we both believe we're right. The beginnings of war. Just don't call me "religious," that implies I'm a member of a brotherhood like the "Redemptrist Fathers," a religious order within the catholic church. Charlie Kroeger Article 22057 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 106 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 10:02:46 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.195 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942509252 38.31.250.195 (Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:07:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:07:32 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22057 Kelly said: >I have to say I am ROTFLMAO. My brain fizzled out on that one, it's still buzzing and popping..better translate. > You remember what they say about assume? Sure, but it's more deduction Watson, than assuming. I learned everything of that art from reading Sherlock Holmes. Now, I have to be Sherlock Holmes. I'm happy, one out of two not bad. >I *am* a waitress.Have been for ten years. >Leaving home after dropping out of high school does not exactly > put me in a position qualified for much else, no matter what kind > of intellect I have. Jeeze, Kelly I'm so thrilled to know you're not one of those digerati swells, or some trust funded zen student that's making a difference. But yeah varily I see that you're a thoughtful person who is fond of learning. Nothing wrong with going back to school, the community colleges are a great way to start your upward motion. However, you should always be thinking of starting your own business. At the turn of the century in this country, 98% of Americans were self employed doing something. It's not about getting rich, it's about feeling free, in the land of the free. Judging from your clientele, I would hope at least that you are getting some extravagant tips. And if not, you might just remind them what the old nun said: "some people have their paradise on earth." I must put you on to a very interesting article by Barbara Ehrenreich a hero of mine in the war; an important voice for the arm of the intellectual left. She went underground, as it were, in Florida and became a waitress and lived in a rented trailer. Her article was about that life. It was such a sad tale, I had to turn away at times. I don't think she worked in a place like you've described, but rather somewhere like a "Denny's." The article is titled: "Nickel-and-dimed, or (not) getting by in America" It made me sick and very fucking angry. The article is in Harpers's Magazine, January 1999 they have a web site and the story may be archived: www.harpers.org > Perry's is frequented by politicians, newspaper men, stock brokers, and > the socialites that want to catch them. I would love to be able to tell a few of those people you've described on the day, when they were feeling great and safe because they thought everyone that wasn't in the comfortable club, was now safely locked away and would maybe just have one last thought as the window of their lexus was smashed at a stop light and their throats were cut and as they lay dying they might just wonder if it was not a better thing that they were doing at that moment, than they had ever done. On a less grim note, and in the same magazine, (September 1998) there is a less provocative story called "The hum of bees, a civilization made of flowers, light. and wax." by Steven Johnson. If you are drawn to keeping bees it is because you are born that way, like a saint, i'm fond of saying. When you begin with your first hive, don't read too much into the commercial side of beekeeping or buy everything recommended by the suppliers. As beginnings go, after reading about beekeeping and thinking on it, one early summer morning you will be visited by a swarm of bees; they will be coming for you. You must treat your bees like someone you love, a good friend. The English say as well: it's important to tell your bees all your secrets. I was just today in fact, finishing up the last of my bottling for the year and was struck by the beauty and power of seeing this golden liquid in the morning sunlight, flowing into clear glass and thinking on all the millions of drops of nectar from all those flowers of the season represented by this gleaming presence. I become affected like this every year, a moment in which I always look forward. "like golden apples of the sun." >I am, of course, an exception. ~BG~ I see that you are. >What is Tikkun? Sounds interesting. Do they have a website? Tikkun means ...to heal, repair and transform the world. It is a bimonthly Jewish critique of politics, culture and society. Even though I'm not Jewish, it is the best magazine I know for clear thinking and analysis regarding the above subjects; and, yes they have a website: www.tikkun.org Charlie Kroeger - Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. Napoleon Article 22058 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: "Matthew Matlin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Cordovan Bees Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:14:35 -0500 References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-ELN-Date: 13 Nov 1999 20:15:03 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sat Nov 13 12:25:01 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Lines: 3 Reply-To: "Matthew Matlin" NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004fltampp180.dialsprint.net Message-ID: <80kgs7$opt$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22058 Does anyone know of a supplier of Cordovan Bees. Mat Article 22059 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "Ken & Margaret Lawrence" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:59:07 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 9 Message-ID: <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22059 > can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? I second that!!!!!!!!!! How did the honey crop in different parts do this year. I myself with 27 hives done a big belly flop. Here in southern Illinois, (Thompsonville) Nobody made a good crop of honey. Can always think it will be better next year. Ken Lawrence Article 22060 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Cordovan Bees Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 02:09:08 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: <80l4ab$j1p$1@news1.Radix.Net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <80kgs7$opt$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p7.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22060 "Matthew Matlin" wrote: >Does anyone know of a supplier of Cordovan Bees. Mat Look in the beekeeping rags. The Golden Redheads are cardovans. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22061 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-102.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 19:37:50 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.66 X-Server-Date: 14 Nov 1999 02:39:02 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22061 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > But yeah varily I see that you're a thoughtful person who is fond of > learning. Um... speaking of learning... um... it's "verily." ;) -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22062 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-102.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 19:51:04 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.66 X-Server-Date: 14 Nov 1999 02:52:18 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22062 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > > If you want to be religious, you need faith. Believing is actually > knowing something tangible like: > > Pi (3.14159265358979323846...) which is The ratio of the circumference > to the diameter of a circle. I believe Pi is really there. AHA! YOU've just proven that you DO have FAITH! As far as I know, Pi has never been calculated to it's final decimal place, even by a supercomputer... thus... If you believe Pi "is really there", then you have to have faith that the number you choose to represent Pi does indeed represent something that neither you nor anyone else has ever seen or calculated, ie. Pi at it's infinite value. An ole' sumbitch named Peter, a fisherman by trade, in a letter he wrote to some folks several hundred years ago, defined faith as being "certain of what we do not see." Sounds pretty close to your faith in Pi. More of Peter's writings can be found in the New Testament. Also, if I were asked, by thinking person like you, I would recommend any of several books by the the Oxford scholar CS Lewis... especially "Mere Christianity." It's quite stimulating. But since you didn't ask, I won't recommend them. ;) Now, on to other things... I had a GREAT time today, trying to grab drones in mid-air as they left the hive... 80 degrees here in COSprings today... ahhh... life's simple pleasures. -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22063 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 21:44:33 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 32 Message-ID: <382E3020.4D63@midwest.net> References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22063 Ken & Margaret Lawrence wrote: > > > can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? > I second that!!!!!!!!!! > How did the honey crop in different parts do this year. I myself with 27 > hives done a big belly flop. Here in southern Illinois, (Thompsonville) > Nobody made a good crop of honey. Can always think it will be better next > year. > Ken Lawrence Hey Ken, Ya oughta move over to the Dale/Walpole area, we had a bumper crop:) Not really, but I did pull around 50lb from two hives. It was much improved over last year's crop - actually sold some AND won a ribbon at the fair. If memory serves me right you were in attendance at the Fairfield meeting last year when I pass my honey sample around for opinions on the "aroma". I was able to send off enough samples to the far corners of th earth that I actually got rid of the stuff. This has been a tough year and even tougher fall. I would be enjoying the unseasonably warm weather if it wasn't for the shrinking water supply in my pond - we need rain desperately. After watching all the flood damage out east its apparent there isn't a shortage of water, just a lousy distribution system. BTW, the next Little Egypt Beekeeper's meeting is this Monday (15th) in case you haven't received a notice. AL Article 22064 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!news.megsinet.net.MISMATCH!news.corecomm.net!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:22:01 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <80lkdg$396$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.174 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22064 ---------- In article <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home>, "Ken & Margaret Lawrence" wrote: >> can we finally drop this vegan mess and get back to bees ??? > I second that!!!!!!!!!! > How did the honey crop in different parts do this year. I myself with 27 > hives done a big belly flop. Here in southern Illinois, (Thompsonville) > Nobody made a good crop of honey. Can always think it will be better next > year. > Ken Lawrence Hello Ken - Are you still upset about your bumper crop?! You must be talking about those hives we pulled supers off of that the bees were keeping the wax moths out of? I told you I'd bring down some honey for you so you can at least have your honey ice cream through the winter. I did okay up here in spite of the dry weather. I've got those suburban bees up here. They don't miss a day as they're all driving SUV's. They think nothing can slow them down. I'll bring some with me the next time I come down. Hope you're enjoying retirement. -Barry Article 22065 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: "workerbee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: carolina beekeepers Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 07:02:02 -0500 References: <382CE729.38C3D1E@netnitco.net> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-ELN-Date: 14 Nov 1999 12:05:57 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sun Nov 14 04:25:52 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust82.tnt3.rdu1.da.uu.net Message-ID: <80m8j5$bth$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22065 I didn't seem to loose any. I live in Rocky Mount, NC and have several hives in my back yard. All are alive and healthy. The airplane sprayed over my house several times and I never saw any indication of damage. I had 7 hives in the country and was told there was no activity at all in them. Brought them home yesterday and found all were well. One pretty weak. Looks like they didn't take the queen and requeened themselves. Don Chad Howell wrote in message news:382CE729.38C3D1E@netnitco.net... > How did you all fair regarding the hurricanes. We haven't heard much > lately. I was wondering what happened with the county governments > spraying pesticides in the middle of the day? > Chad > Article 22066 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382EDB84.BA746920@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: '99 honey crop (was: Incredibly stupid question) References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:56:02 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942594680 24.24.11.73 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:51:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:51:20 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22066 Ken Lawrence wrote: > How did the honey crop in different parts do this year Hi Ken & all, Here in central NY we had a remarkably heavy honey flow in late May and through June (black locust, honeysuckle, etc.). The bees were working so heavily that Spring swarming was practically nil. Most hives filled 4-5 medium supers by the end of June. Basswood at the beginning of July was not so hot. I didn't notice much of the basswood flavor in the early crop. Then the drought set in. July was pretty much a bust. Then all of August, too. Somewhere during that time I went out to harvest the heavy supers that had been beautifully filled and capped earlier, and found quite a few of them half empty or worse. The bees were living off the early crop, and hive weights continued to drop for weeks. Quite a disappointment. Sweet clover amounted to almost nothing, which tells you just how dry the conditions were. It seemed like the balance of the season would be just dismal, but finally we started getting some rain in Sept. after the goldenrods started blooming. There was plenty of good foraging weather right through the fall flow, so the entire span of goldenrod and aster blooms were available, and the bees were able to do a formidable job on them. In the end, we were able to harvest a total surplus of 4-6 full mediums from virtually all of the producing colonies (35), and leave them good and heavy for winter. This besides 20 nucs which were produced and sold, or developed into full colonies over the summer. They did fine, but buildup took *much* longer than usual. (The nucs generally don't receive any supplemental feeding.) So... even despite the drought, things turned out pretty well. If it weren't for the weather cooperating toward the end of the season it would have been a much different outcome! Often cool or wet weather here will make the fall crop a failure. We were fortunate. (The 43 cents a pound being offered around here is another story...) Article 22067 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 08:54:06 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <382ECD0E.3991@midwest.net> References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22067 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > ... I had a GREAT time today, trying to grab drones > in mid-air as they left the hive... 80 degrees here in COSprings today... > ahhh... life's simple pleasures. > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford Hey Stretch, You sound like a man with *way* too much time on yer hands... AL Article 22068 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Nov 1999 16:36:31 GMT References: <80lkdg$396$1@eve.enteract.com> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991114113631.02137.00000002@ngol03.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22068 I was wondering what the vegan would think of an electic fence to repel bears. It does provide quite a shock to the bear's mouth. Maybe he could put something in his web site about it. How is vegan pronounced ? Is it like the car (vega) or the first syllable of vegatable. Al Article 22069 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!typ11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Peter Amschel Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Message-ID: References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> <80lkdg$396$1@eve.enteract.com> Organization: All X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.20.1640 Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.100.16.35 X-Trace: typ11.nn.bcandid.com 942597787 216.100.16.35 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:43:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:43:07 EST Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 08:49:07 -0800 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22069 Is honey ice cream just ice cream with honey dripped over it, or is it something even more interesting? In article <80lkdg$396$1@eve.enteract.com>, barry@birkey.com says... > I told you I'd bring down some honey for you so you can at least > have your honey ice cream through the winter. > > > Article 22070 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!news.airnews.net!cabal10.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet From: "dewitt" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:40:00 -0600 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 32 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <80msmc$po5@library2.airnews.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun Nov 14 11:49:00 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !bVZ^1k-X)Vd\N7 (Encoded at Airnews!) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22070 Barry Birkey wrote in message news:80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com... > This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation > type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. My damage came from outside forces. My steer knocked over all my hives on the coldest day so for fortunately it was so cold that all the bees clustered in the brood box which was "just Upset". I got them upright again and started cleaning up the mess and found all the duraguilt had bulged from the frames and all the wired frames in good shape had some of the duaguilt buckle in the heat of the summer also, and more in the extractor so all in all I'm for wired comb from now on. I'm very lucky that the wife doesn't mind "temporary" messes so I can set a table up in the den and build frames and be with the family all winter. This might be one > plus for using Plasticell or Pierco type foundation. In the end, ALL types > of foundation will work and ALL types have their drawbacks. > > Unfortunately, this thread got off to a bad start when Jerry asked, "What is > the best foundation" of which the reply should have been, "there isn't a > best, just a lot of different kinds to choose from." Article 22071 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: honey ice cream (was:Incredibly stupid question) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:01:43 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <80mtdf$4kf$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <19991112170917.06551.00000436@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991112175514.05302.00000445@ng-ca1.aol.com> <01bf2e3b$e6ff4360$5010ebd0@home> <80lkdg$396$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.230 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22071 Peter - The stuff I'm talking about is where honey is used as an ingredient when making homemade ice cream. A honey lovers delight!! I'll see if I can get a recipe or two for it and post to my web site. -Barry ---------- In article , Peter Amschel wrote: > Is honey ice cream just ice cream with honey dripped over it, or > is it something even more interesting? Article 22072 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: nhmn Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:06:02 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <80mtli$4sk$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.230 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22072 For any one interested, I'm now posting the National Honey Market News report on my web site. http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/nhmn/index.html -Barry Article 22073 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: national geographic Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Nov 1999 20:07:35 GMT References: <3825AC11.C8B4B63F@xxxdolfijn.nl> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991114150735.25952.00000511@ngol03.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22073 does anybody know if you can buy pictures from National Geographic or the author of the article? I'm thinking of the articles in june/98 and nov/98 on honey hunting in nepal. The author is Eric Valli. Al Article 22074 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 13:58:18 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 14 Nov 1999 19:59:11 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sun Nov 14 12:05:02 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Lines: 18 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-001txdallp111.dialsprint.net Message-ID: Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22074 >news:80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com... >> This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation >> type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. And drone comb in a hive is fine for storing nectar, pollen or raising drones. I much prefer to see drone comb from old wired wax foundation instead of bare plastic from old Duragilt. In locations where foundation can be drawn out in stronger flows, the all-plastic foundations (Plasticell, Pierco or Dadant) seem to work well. However, it is hard to go wrong with crimp-wired wax foundation in weaker flows and for beginning beekeepers. -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ Article 22075 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382F1E06.BEB8363D@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation?/ Repairing damaged combs References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:40:07 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942611709 24.24.11.73 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:35:09 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:35:09 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22075 Interesting to hear about different experiences with the array of foundations. > >news:80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com... > >> This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation > >> type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. If you end up with the odd bare spots on old Duragilt, you can take a scrap of wax foundation cut to about the same size and shape, hold a lighter under one side it to melt it a little, and press it onto the plastic. The bees will usually (tho' IME, not ~always~) draw the foundation out and you can thereby make good use again of what was wasted space. It is quicker and cheaper than busting out the comb and entirely replacing it. Worth a try, anyway. (It might help to heat up the bare plastic surface some first, in the same way.) For otherwise good all-wax brood combs with empty spots near the bottom, you can tuck in a strip of wax foundation, warmed to make it pliable, and press it against the lower edge of the comb so it sticks there. Similarly, if you have lower-corner sections of drone comb, such as results from bee-or mice chewing, you can slice out the droney part with an exacto knife and stick a trimmed piece of wax foundation in there, pressing it into the edge of the adjacent comb. I have salvaged many an othewise good-quality brood comb this way. The important thing is to give the "patched" combs to the bees when a honey flow is on, or they are being fed. Otherwise they tend to chew away at the patches. I find that even if the patch sections are not 100% perfectly centered in the frame, the bees still draw them out and the queen will lay fine worker brood in them. Eventually you can barely tell where the patched sections are. Thought this stuff might come in handy for someone... 'later, Joel Article 22076 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382F21D1.12ED437@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation?/ Repairing damaged combs, p.s. References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> <382F1E06.BEB8363D@twcny.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:56:25 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942612685 24.24.11.73 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:51:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:51:25 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22076 ...These repairs are a convenient thing to do when one finds dead-outs during the winter or early Spring. Brush out the bulk of the dead bees, take the hives home, and scrape the brood frames down to free them of excess burr comb and propolis. Sort the combs according to quality, and then cull the worst or patch 'em as necessary. jwg Article 22077 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!harpo!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Thank You (was Keeping Honey Liquid) From: malioto@ctel.net (Mary) Message-ID: <09991014200204.OUI58.malioto@ctel.net> Organization: Pleasant Pond Orchard Reply-To: malioto@ctel.net X-Newsreader: OUI 1.8 Pro X-Priority: 3 Lines: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 01:20:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.222.102.182 X-Trace: harpo 942628800 209.222.102.182 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 20:20:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 20:20:00 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22077 Thanks to all posters regarding my question about keeping honey liquid in our apple orchard shop. We have built a warming box, which is working very well to re-liquify crystalized honey. And I finally had to break down and turn on the heat this weekend.... Thanks again.... Mary Alioto Article 22078 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ihug.co.nz!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news!not-for-mail From: "carmanz" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: gloves - thanks Date: 15 Nov 1999 03:15:20 GMT Organization: Wave Internet Services Lines: 7 Message-ID: <01bf2f15$1bc6df20$33c060cb@leo> NNTP-Posting-Host: p51.hn1.wave.co.nz X-Trace: news.wave.co.nz 942635720 29526 203.96.192.51 (15 Nov 1999 03:15:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wave.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 1999 03:15:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22078 Greetings many thanks to all those who came forward with the suggestion of using surgical gloves instead of leather gloves .. when entering the hives I trialled them yesterday and they work a treat .. a lot less bulky very helpful carman Article 22079 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!nott!crc-news.crc.ca!news.drenet.dnd.ca!gee From: gee@pcgee.dciem.dnd.ca (Tom Gee) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: 15 Nov 1999 16:09:35 GMT Organization: DCIEM Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: <19991112032059.07427.00000368@ng-cf1.aol.com> <382BFFB7.F278292B@zzclinic.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pcgee.dciem.dnd.ca X-Trace: news.drenet.dnd.ca 942682175 27126 131.136.69.202 (15 Nov 1999 16:09:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.drenet.dnd.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 1999 16:09:35 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22079 On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 19:51:04 -0600, Charles "Stretch" Ledford wrote: >In article , >ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: >> >> If you want to be religious, you need faith. Believing is actually >> knowing something tangible like: >> >> Pi (3.14159265358979323846...) which is The ratio of the circumference >> to the diameter of a circle. I believe Pi is really there. > >AHA! > >YOU've just proven that you DO have FAITH! > >As far as I know, Pi has never been calculated to it's final decimal >place, even by a supercomputer... thus... Oh, I just couldn't pass this one up. Pi is an irrational number that cannot be expressed as a ratio of two numbers. Which means that there is *no* final decimal place, but in fact the digits of Pi form an infinite, nonrepeating sequence. (I knew that math degree would come in handy someday.) >If you believe Pi "is really there", then you have to have faith that the >number you choose to represent Pi does indeed represent something that >neither you nor anyone else has ever seen or calculated, ie. Pi at it's >infinite value. Pi is defined as "the ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle". It is merely a geometric measure that happens to appear in a lot of different places. >More of Peter's writings can be found in the New Testament. Also, if I >were asked, by thinking person like you, I would recommend any of several >books by the the Oxford scholar CS Lewis... especially "Mere >Christianity." It's quite stimulating. But since you didn't ask, I won't >recommend them. ;) I agree. "Mere Christianity" is a great book. I'm also waiting for a chance to read "The Case for Christ" by former investigative journalist Lee Strobel. >Now, on to other things... I had a GREAT time today, trying to grab drones >in mid-air as they left the hive... 80 degrees here in COSprings today... >ahhh... life's simple pleasures. So, if you miss and get one of the girls instead?.. Ouch! Tom --- Tom.Gee@dciem.dnd.ca Article 22080 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.usit.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <38305667.CB082141@visi.net> From: Thom Bradley Organization: Thom's Honeybees X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: carolina beekeepers References: <382CE729.38C3D1E@netnitco.net> <80m8j5$bth$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:53:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp07.ts2-1.norfolk.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:53:11 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22080 I've got bees in NC and VA. In southeastern Virginia they sprayed with Dibrom and it turns out it was very lethal to the bees. I was only overflown once but the kill was quick and large. Others were overflown several times and may no longer be beekeepers. Part of the problem in Virginia was a complete lack of knowledge of schedule. It's obvious they had no concern re: label instructions but also what they were doing. For example: 1 beekeeper was told spraying would occur the next day where he had 20 colonies. The next morning he moved them to his home apiary. While he was still in the yard the plane sprayed overhead several times with harsh consequences as the flights were about 3:30 on a warm day with a good aster and goldenrod bloom. For the second prime example. A past pres. of the Virginia State Beekeeper's ass. was on the phone getting the spraying schedule and was being assured no spraying would occur over his farm when the plane began spraying, again @ 4 times with nasty results. North carolina used Anvil 10+10 and it is much less lethal. I had major surgery and have not been able to travel to check them but the landowner tells me activity is good. They are located along the Chowan River 15 miles south of Sunbury, NC Thom Bradley Tidewater Beekeeper's Association http://groups.hamptonroads.com/beekeepers workerbee wrote: > > I didn't seem to loose any. I live in Rocky Mount, NC and have several hives > in my back yard. All are alive and healthy. The airplane sprayed over my > house several times and I never saw any indication of damage. I had 7 hives > in the country and was told there was no activity at all in them. Brought > them home yesterday and found all were well. One pretty weak. Looks like > they didn't take the queen and requeened themselves. > > Don > Chad Howell wrote in message > news:382CE729.38C3D1E@netnitco.net... > > How did you all fair regarding the hurricanes. We haven't heard much > > lately. I was wondering what happened with the county governments > > spraying pesticides in the middle of the day? > > Chad > > Article 22081 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!hp-corv.cv.hp.com!news!news.cup.hp.com!fc.hp.com!news From: "steve hird" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Crystal Honey Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:40:12 -0700 Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site Lines: 5 Message-ID: <80pqr8$qca$1@fcnews.fc.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mtdsteve.lvld.hp.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22081 This year I used an extractor for the first time to extract honey. The problem is it crystalized very rapidly. Does anybody know what might have caused this? I do know that I can bring it back by heating it. Article 22082 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.cs.com!not-for-mail From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Crystal Honey Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.cs.com X-Admin: news@cs.com Date: 15 Nov 1999 23:08:13 GMT References: <80pqr8$qca$1@fcnews.fc.hp.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Message-ID: <19991115180813.15136.00001426@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22082 >This year I used an extractor for the first time to extract honey. >The problem is it crystalized very rapidly. Does anybody know what might >have caused this? I do know that I can bring it back by heating it. > > One... it depends on the type of Honey we are talking about as to the crystalization time. The reason honey crystalizes is the abundance of particles inside the honey. The crap you buy on the store shelves has been filtered to at least 20 microns to remove all such particles including pollen. That is why the shelf life is so long. The more particles your honey has in it the the more structures the honey has to cystalize on. Heating it will reliquefy it, but it will stay liquid for as long maybe a little more than it did the first time because the particles are still there. It just one of those things about honey. Be sure to keep honey out of the cold as 50 degrees and below is the optimum temperature at which honey forms crystals. Keeping it in a warm place will increase the shelf life. Robert Williamson Southeast Texas Honey Co. P.O. Box 176 Vidor, Tx. 77670 " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 22083 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.cs.com!not-for-mail From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.cs.com X-Admin: news@cs.com Date: 15 Nov 1999 23:13:13 GMT References: <19991112063914.02104.00000340@ng-fc1.aol.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Message-ID: <19991115181313.15136.00001429@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22083 >propolis tinchure is a very strong anti bacterial and is sold for @ 15.00 an >ounce > > >Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > > > > > > > well hell I've got tons of propolis...that is if my hive bodies don't fall apart if I scrape it off of 'em.;) How do I make such a tincture? Big J Robert Williamson Southeast Texas Honey Co. P.O. Box 176 Vidor, Tx. 77670 " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 22084 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: bugsyrt@aol.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: gloves - thanks Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:24:55 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <80qbp3$bn$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <01bf2f15$1bc6df20$33c060cb@leo> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.95.158.4 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Nov 16 01:24:55 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 GATEWAY, 1.0 x37.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 24.95.158.4 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDbugsyrt Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22084 In article <01bf2f15$1bc6df20$33c060cb@leo>, "carmanz" wrote: > Greetings > many thanks to all those who came forward with the suggestion of using > surgical gloves instead of leather gloves .. when entering the hives > I trialled them yesterday and they work a treat .. a lot less bulky > very helpful > > carman > Hello there! Sorry I missed the original posting so I hope this is not too redundant... :-P A glove you may want to look into in place of standard surgical gloves is a type of glove put out by Allegiance called "10 inch Nitrile Examination Gloves" I am a Respiratory therapist and these are the gloves we use on trauma patients in the ER they are latex free, and powder free as well. They are blue in color and are slightly tougher and thicker than standard gloves but retain a high amount of sensitivity (I draw arterial blood gasses with them on) they come in bulk boxes of either fifty or a hundred I can not recall at the moment so they are way cheaper than the individual pairs of sterile gloves :-D Any way I hope this helps! David, Corning NY Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. Article 22085 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!WCG!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet From: nospam@nospam.com (David C) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee sting Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:36:40 GMT Organization: Fastlane Communications (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <38315ca5.88248518@news.fastlane.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at fastlane.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue Nov 16 07:32:47 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !b!*"3I`04m$o30 (Encoded at Airnews!) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22085 I know we've all been stung and I'm a reletive newbie to the group but I got stung yesterday in my temple while feeding and didn't think much of it. I got in the house about 15 minutes later and noticed the stinger still hanging on. So I took my knife and scraped it off and by the end of the day, the whole side of my face is swollen and my eye was swollen shut. No change this morning. I started taking bendyrl last night but still no improvment. It's starting to concern me. Should I be worried? Article 22086 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: gloves - thanks Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:50:10 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01bf2f15$1bc6df20$33c060cb@leo> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 16 Nov 1999 13:51:01 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Tue Nov 16 05:55:03 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Lines: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-001txdallp295.dialsprint.net Message-ID: Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22086 "carmanz" wrote: >many thanks to all those who came forward with the suggestion of using >surgical gloves instead of leather gloves .. when entering the hives >I trialled them yesterday and they work a treat .. a lot less bulky >very helpful Surgical gloves in New Zealand must be stronger than those we have in North America. The surgical gloves I use when painting usually tear through the fingertips pretty quickly. They also don't allow sweat to evaporate. Leather, or canvas/leather gloves may not give the dexterity needed for fine work like marking queens, but they are strong and your hands don't swim in sweat like they do in rubber gloves. -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ Article 22087 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-215-117.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: WinterPollenGathering Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:23:08 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d7.75 X-Server-Date: 16 Nov 1999 14:24:33 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22087 Greetings all, from Colorado Springs... The girls have been bringing in pollen recently! White-ish stuff, it looks to me like... Where do you reckon they're getting it at this time o' year? -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22088 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp From: "Billy Y. Smart II" Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies X-Nntp-Posting-Host: rs496769.ks.boeing.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0A6C6CC54D7232AC7E5DD590" Message-ID: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Organization: Tooling Numerical Control Programming References: <7vuqc7$ncb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:09:28 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; AIX 4.3) Lines: 42 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22088 --------------0A6C6CC54D7232AC7E5DD590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Amschel wrote: > around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them. > Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke. So do you use cannibus as smoker fuel or beekeeper fuel? ;-) -- Billy Y. Smart II /* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the */ /* Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental. */ /* Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply */ --------------0A6C6CC54D7232AC7E5DD590 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Amschel wrote:

around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them.
Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke.

So do you use cannibus as smoker fuel or beekeeper fuel?   ;-)  

-- 
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */    
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */
  --------------0A6C6CC54D7232AC7E5DD590-- Article 22089 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!brick.direct.ca!brie.direct.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Michael Simics" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <19991112063914.02104.00000340@ng-fc1.aol.com> <19991115181313.15136.00001429@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Lines: 41 Organization: Apitronic Services X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:44:05 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.66.133.93 X-Complaints-To: abuse@direct.ca X-Trace: brie.direct.ca 942771042 216.66.133.93 (Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:50:42 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:50:42 PST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22089 Dear Robert, About 130-135 queen cells will give you 1 oz royal jelly. For production, buy and read: R.F. van Toor: Producing Royal Jelly, 1997, ISBN 0-473-04385-5 Propolis tincture preparation - read: Krell, R. (1996) Value-Added products from Beekeeping, ISBN 92-5-103819-8 Sincerely, Michael Simics Robert Williamson wrote in message <19991115181313.15136.00001429@ng-fn1.news.cs.com>... >>propolis tinchure is a very strong anti bacterial and is sold for @ 15.00 an >>ounce >> >> >>Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > > >well hell I've got tons of propolis...that is if my hive bodies don't fall >apart if I scrape it off of 'em.;) > >How do I make such a tincture? Big J > > >Robert Williamson >Southeast Texas Honey Co. >P.O. Box 176 >Vidor, Tx. 77670 >" A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 22090 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee sting Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 17:44:24 GMT References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991116124424.16993.00000099@ng-fi1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22090 From: nospam@nospam.com (David C) >I know we've all been stung and I'm a reletive newbie to the group but >I got stung yesterday in my temple while feeding and didn't think much >of it. I got in the house about 15 minutes later and noticed the >stinger still hanging on. So I took my knife and scraped it off and by >the end of the day, the whole side of my face is swollen and my eye >was swollen shut. No change this morning. I started taking bendyrl >last night but still no improvment. It's starting to concern me. >Should I be worried? I've been a beekeeper for years, and get stung thousands of times per year, and a "full load" right on the temple would probably shut my eye too. Anywhere near your eyes is a very sensitive place, no matter how much you are used to being stung. So I wouldn't place any unusual significance on this.....just so long as the effects remain localized. Benedryl doesn't seem to have much effect unless it is used immediately. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm Article 22091 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.mtu.edu!not-for-mail From: Timothy C. Eisele Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee sting Date: 16 Nov 1999 18:04:06 GMT Organization: Michigan Technological University Lines: 27 Message-ID: <80s6am$ihf$1@campus3.mtu.edu> References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: milkyway.mm.mtu.edu X-Trace: campus3.mtu.edu 942775446 18991 141.219.66.35 (16 Nov 1999 18:04:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mtu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 1999 18:04:06 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX IT-DCS binary version 970321; sun4u SunOS 5.6] Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22091 David C wrote: : I know we've all been stung and I'm a reletive newbie to the group but : I got stung yesterday in my temple while feeding and didn't think much : of it. I got in the house about 15 minutes later and noticed the : stinger still hanging on. So I took my knife and scraped it off and by : the end of the day, the whole side of my face is swollen and my eye : was swollen shut. No change this morning. I started taking bendyrl : last night but still no improvment. It's starting to concern me. : Should I be worried? Well, seeing as how we just discussed this at some length less than a month ago, I was going to send you a short email rather than dredging it up again in the newsgroup. But, your "spamblocker" address made that impossible. Anyway, short answer: No, not really. It's just a large local reaction that happens to just about everybody from time to time. Uncomfortable and unsightly, but not life-threatening. If you want a longer answer, I'd advise reading the last chapter of _The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee_, which discusses reactions to stings. Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu Article 22092 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.comBee (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 19:53:38 GMT References: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991116145338.08509.00000046@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22092 I bet it burns too hot for smoker fuel Tom There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com Article 22093 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 21:02:05 GMT References: <19991116145338.08509.00000046@ng-cr1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991116160205.10393.00000094@ng-cj1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22093 >I bet it burns too hot for smoker fuel > > >Tom cant be any hotter than pine straw on a 90 degree day ! Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22094 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 21:01:16 GMT References: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991116160116.10393.00000093@ng-cj1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22094 >> around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them. >> Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke. > so hows about sending me a sample to test..... Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22095 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 21:18:53 GMT References: <19991115181313.15136.00001429@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991116161853.10393.00000101@ng-cj1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22095 > >>propolis tinchure is a very strong anti bacterial and is sold for @ 15.00 an >>ounce > >well hell I've got tons of propolis...that is if my hive bodies don't fall >apart if I scrape it off of 'em.;) > >How do I make such a tincture? Big J > its a simple process scrape the propolis off frames, bodies etc.. put it into a mason jar, I use a 1/2 gallon when i can find one ( they stopped making them that size last year ). fill the jar a good half full of propolis, fill to about 3/4 full with ethyl alcohol. ( very pure corn if you can get it, make damn sure it'll burn blue.. Or if you don't have access to the homeade you can use Everclear from the local ABC Store. You're shooting for a " saturated solution " In other words the alcohol will not disolve anymore propolis. Now there will be particles of wax, looks almost like sand in the bottom ( sometimes had it a inch thick ) so look close cause the alcohol won't dissolve the wax and you don't want to " thin " it down any by thinking you still got propolis to disolve. Give her a shake every few days and leave it alone, If ya still got propolis after 2 weeks, fill the jar on up closer to the top with everclear. I usually let mine nest for around 3-4 months, steeps kinda like a good tea ya know. Strain it out and put into 1 ounce bottles ( ya local drug store can get em for ya ) Now it's a topical antiseptic that can be used internally ( like cold sores in the mouth) or on cuts etc.. Them health food stores get about 15.00 a ounce for it, peddlin i get bout 10.00. call me if ya got anymore questions 910-814-0540 Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22096 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: "workerbee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee sting Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:06:59 -0500 References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-ELN-Date: 16 Nov 1999 22:10:58 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Tue Nov 16 14:15:05 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust172.tnt11.tco2.da.uu.net Message-ID: <80skpi$65l$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22096 Well, lets see. You are still alive several hours after the sting, so I think you should not worry at this point. Read up on bee stings and allergic reactions. Two years ago I had two reactions and now keep my eppi-pen handy, when I remember it. Got the thing and have had no more reactions. Have been stung lots. I work mostly with out a suit and use a veil if the girls get testy. Happened Saturday. Don in NC David C wrote in message news:6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net... > I know we've all been stung and I'm a reletive newbie to the group but > I got stung yesterday in my temple while feeding and didn't think much > of it. I got in the house about 15 minutes later and noticed the > stinger still hanging on. So I took my knife and scraped it off and by > the end of the day, the whole side of my face is swollen and my eye > was swollen shut. No change this morning. I started taking bendyrl > last night but still no improvment. It's starting to concern me. > Should I be worried? Article 22100 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!vrn.edu.au!news.deakin.edu.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <383228AE.783EBA2E@deakin.edu.au> From: adrian dent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee sting References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:01:50 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.132.55.73 X-Trace: news.deakin.edu.au 942814838 139.132.55.73 (Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:00:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:00:38 EST Organization: Deakin University, Victoria, Australia Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22100 David C wrote: > > I got stung yesterday in my temple while feeding and didn't think much > It's starting to concern me. > Should I be worried? I dont think there is to much need for concern. If you normaly don't react badly you should be fine. Often head stings seem to swell up more than other areas, mostly because the bone is so close to the surface, so the swelling can only move outwards. I actually got stung on the jugular vein once, and this caused some interesting reactions, (disiness, rashes) possibly because it was next to such a major vein. I suppose temples could have a similar effect. Regards, Adrian. Article 22101 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed.usit.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp From: "Billy Y. Smart II" Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies X-Nntp-Posting-Host: rs496769.ks.boeing.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A2944ED0EBBF6D88AED87800" Message-ID: <3832A486.8289C8F5@nospam.boeing.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Organization: Tooling Numerical Control Programming References: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> <19991116160116.10393.00000093@ng-cj1.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:50:14 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; AIX 4.3) Lines: 49 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22101 --------------A2944ED0EBBF6D88AED87800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hk1BeeMan wrote: > >> around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them. > >> Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke. > > > > so hows about sending me a sample to test..... > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Sorry, I don't have any samples left. But I will sell you a "cannibus stick" for $5. ;-) -- Billy Y. Smart II /* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the */ /* Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental. */ /* Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply */ --------------A2944ED0EBBF6D88AED87800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hk1BeeMan wrote:
>> around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them.
>> Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke.
>

so hows about sending me a sample to test.....
Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC

 Sorry, I don't have any samples left. But I will sell you a "cannibus stick" for $5.         ;-) 
-- 
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */    
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */
  --------------A2944ED0EBBF6D88AED87800-- Article 22102 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:29:41 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <3832C9E5.595@midwest.net> References: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> <19991116160116.10393.00000093@ng-cj1.aol.com> <38320E54.AE9@midwest.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22102 Clearly it is nobody's business what "particular condition" you are referring to, but in the same sentence you say "hand to the beekeeper his medical recommendation" leading me to think you're talking about a treatment for bee stings. AL Peter Amschel wrote: > > He practices in Santa Monica. He charges $150 cash and if he > feels that cannabis would be appropriate for the particular > condition (Cal. law leaves this issue up to the patient and the > doctor) he will print out, sign and hand to the beekeeper his > medical recommendation letter in straightforward but discreet > medical terminology using his lap top computer and a desktop > color printer on his desk. No muss; no fuss; and the beekeeper > thereupon becomes exempt from California Health and Safety Code > section 11358 & 11359 (prohibitions on cultivation and possession > of marijuana). :0) > > In article <38320E54.AE9@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net says... > > Hk1BeeMan wrote: > > > > > > >> around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them. > > > >> Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke. > > > > > > > > > > so hows about sending me a sample to test..... > > > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > > > > > > Forget that - get the name of his doctor! > > > > AL > > Article 22103 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk!dave From: Dave Black Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Crystal Honey Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:28:07 +0000 Organization: Woodbridge Message-ID: <5H0t+DA3OvM4EwOV@woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk> References: <80pqr8$qca$1@fcnews.fc.hp.com> <19991115180813.15136.00001426@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 942863352 nnrp-14:27499 NO-IDENT woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Lines: 31 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22103 In article <19991115180813.15136.00001426@ng-fn1.news.cs.com>, Robert Williamson writes >>This year I used an extractor for the first time to extract honey. >>The problem is it crystalized very rapidly. Does anybody know what might >>have caused this? >The reason honey crystalizes is the abundance of particles inside the honey. >The crap you buy on the store shelves has been filtered to at least 20 microns This is so, but not all the story. Honey is a mix of sugars, the proportions vary with type. High fructose contents increase the solubility of glucose, which is relatively insoluble, but only at an optimum hive temperature (about 30C). If the temperature changes the glucose is liable to come out of solution and in any case it is the amount of glucose in proportion to water (White's ratio) that roughly determines granulation. A honey like rape (canola) has more glucose than fructose and crystalises rapidly, honeys like acacia or sourwood have more fructose than glucose and may never granulate. The onset of granulation can be aided (or not) by suspended particles. It is this peculiarity of fructose that makes honey so good, if the sugars were sucrose or glucose not nearly as much could be contained in solution and it would not be the concentrated energy source that it is. Obviously precisely what sugars end up in honey is determined by the types of sugars found in the original nectar. Dave Black Surrey, UK. http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive Article 22104 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!WCG!207.136.1.22!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet From: nospam@nospam.com (David C) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Bee sting Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:33:11 GMT Organization: Fastlane Communications (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 10 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <3832ad3a.64466258@news.fastlane.net> References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at fastlane.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Wed Nov 17 07:29:17 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !YkS`3I`/iR=&$' (Encoded at Airnews!) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22104 Thanks all for the advise. I apologize for not following the NG as closely as I should. These days time is a presious commodity and it seems like there's never enough. I suppose I did over react due to being stung countless times growing up and never having had one react to this degree. The swelling has finally begun to subside and I don't feel like the elephant man anymore. All is well and I do appreciate everyones response. I hope in time I can gain enough knowledge to be able to contribute to this NG as well. David Article 22105 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!typ11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Peter Amschel Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Storing hive bodies Message-ID: References: <38316597.3C5CDFAB@nospam.boeing.com> <19991116160116.10393.00000093@ng-cj1.aol.com> <38320E54.AE9@midwest.net> <3832C9E5.595@midwest.net> Organization: All X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.20.1640 Lines: 47 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.100.16.35 X-Trace: typ11.nn.bcandid.com 942889309 216.100.16.35 (Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:41:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:41:49 EST Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:47:51 -0800 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22105 That might qualify. The statute says "any other condition for which mj provides relief." In article <3832C9E5.595@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net says... > Clearly it is nobody's business what "particular condition" you are > referring to, but in the same sentence you say "hand to the beekeeper > his medical recommendation" leading me to think you're talking about a > treatment for bee stings. > > AL > > > > > > > Peter Amschel wrote: > > > > He practices in Santa Monica. He charges $150 cash and if he > > feels that cannabis would be appropriate for the particular > > condition (Cal. law leaves this issue up to the patient and the > > doctor) he will print out, sign and hand to the beekeeper his > > medical recommendation letter in straightforward but discreet > > medical terminology using his lap top computer and a desktop > > color printer on his desk. No muss; no fuss; and the beekeeper > > thereupon becomes exempt from California Health and Safety Code > > section 11358 & 11359 (prohibitions on cultivation and possession > > of marijuana). :0) > > > > In article <38320E54.AE9@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net says... > > > Hk1BeeMan wrote: > > > > > > > > >> around, their leg-bags full, as I blow marijuana smoke on them. > > > > >> Medicinal marijuana is my bees' favorite type of smoke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > so hows about sending me a sample to test..... > > > > Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > > > > > > > > > Forget that - get the name of his doctor! > > > > > > AL > > > > Article 22106 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: JKimbro Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Basic extraction questions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:11:33 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 59 Message-ID: <38336E53.A7A7645D@midtown.net> References: <7v4oq1$jdg$2@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22106 I'm pretty much in the same position as you, George, (in fact, live just up the hill from you in EDHills too). My little "Junior Bench" two frame extractor is just a bit too small for more than a hive or two. What I would like to try to find, (AND try to justify to the DW), is a 4 or 5 frame radial. Have you, by chance heard of such a thing? George Styer wrote: > The way the comb is finished is not necessarily related to how the > foundation was installed. I assume you are talking about peaks and valleys > on the capped frame. Seems to me that some colonies just build bad comb. I > had one this year that finished out the gawd-awful ugliest comb on Pierco > (plastic) frames that had previously been drawn by another colony and > extracted. When I put them on the looked text-book perfect. > > As for extractors, 2 supers is about all you'll want to do with a 2-frame > hand crank. Figure about 8 minutes a pair unless your arms look like > Popeye's. Ask yourself how many hives you want to have. Last year with 2 > hives my 2-frame (driven by a floor buffer motor) was a real bottleneck. > This year I had to do 4 hives (18 mediums) over 2 loooooooong days. I'll be > looking for a 6 - 9 frame radial for next year. Here is a summary of my > experience: > > 1 hive - 2-frame hank crank (decide at this point I need to add a motor) > 2 hives - same extractor but now had a motor (I can uncap a lot faster than > the frames are extracted but get it done in 1 day) > 4 hives - a long process, lots of cursing (I pass the time by rehersing in > my head how I will justify to the DW a new extractor) > > -- > Geo > Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley > "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" > gstyLer@worldnet.att.net > To respond via email, get the "L" out of there > > Dave Marple wrote in message > news:s1bltgisq8984@corp.supernews.com... > > I have a couple of shallow supers that are full and capped, sitting in my > > garage for a few days. I would like to buy an extractor, but I am not > sure > > it is worth it this year. When I put the foundation in, I probably didn't > > do it correctly and the comb in the frames are not straight (each frame > > bulges in and out). I assume it will be hard to uncap it. Is it worth it > > to try and reuse the comb after extraction, or should I just cut it all > out > > and start fresh with foundation next year? > > > > Also, I am looking at the smallest stainless hand-crank extractor at $199. > > Is that a good purchase, or does anyone have any other suggestions for > home > > extractors in the $200 range? Any comments on the plastic thing for under > > $100? > > > > Sorry to bug the group with basics (couldn't find my answers on deja), but > > any opinions and comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > > > Article 22107 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: JKimbro Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Basic extraction questions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:11:54 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 59 Message-ID: <38336E7A.A86AAC9F@midtown.net> References: <7v4oq1$jdg$2@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22107 I'm pretty much in the same position as you, George, (in fact, live just up the hill from you in EDHills too). My little "Junior Bench" two frame extractor is just a bit too small for more than a hive or two. What I would like to try to find, (AND try to justify to the DW), is a 4 or 5 frame radial. Have you, by chance heard of such a thing? George Styer wrote: > The way the comb is finished is not necessarily related to how the > foundation was installed. I assume you are talking about peaks and valleys > on the capped frame. Seems to me that some colonies just build bad comb. I > had one this year that finished out the gawd-awful ugliest comb on Pierco > (plastic) frames that had previously been drawn by another colony and > extracted. When I put them on the looked text-book perfect. > > As for extractors, 2 supers is about all you'll want to do with a 2-frame > hand crank. Figure about 8 minutes a pair unless your arms look like > Popeye's. Ask yourself how many hives you want to have. Last year with 2 > hives my 2-frame (driven by a floor buffer motor) was a real bottleneck. > This year I had to do 4 hives (18 mediums) over 2 loooooooong days. I'll be > looking for a 6 - 9 frame radial for next year. Here is a summary of my > experience: > > 1 hive - 2-frame hank crank (decide at this point I need to add a motor) > 2 hives - same extractor but now had a motor (I can uncap a lot faster than > the frames are extracted but get it done in 1 day) > 4 hives - a long process, lots of cursing (I pass the time by rehersing in > my head how I will justify to the DW a new extractor) > > -- > Geo > Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley > "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" > gstyLer@worldnet.att.net > To respond via email, get the "L" out of there > > Dave Marple wrote in message > news:s1bltgisq8984@corp.supernews.com... > > I have a couple of shallow supers that are full and capped, sitting in my > > garage for a few days. I would like to buy an extractor, but I am not > sure > > it is worth it this year. When I put the foundation in, I probably didn't > > do it correctly and the comb in the frames are not straight (each frame > > bulges in and out). I assume it will be hard to uncap it. Is it worth it > > to try and reuse the comb after extraction, or should I just cut it all > out > > and start fresh with foundation next year? > > > > Also, I am looking at the smallest stainless hand-crank extractor at $199. > > Is that a good purchase, or does anyone have any other suggestions for > home > > extractors in the $200 range? Any comments on the plastic thing for under > > $100? > > > > Sorry to bug the group with basics (couldn't find my answers on deja), but > > any opinions and comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > > > Article 22108 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: pete Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Crystal Honey Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 04:43:31 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <81005e$1fd$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <80pqr8$qca$1@fcnews.fc.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.152.6.81 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Nov 18 04:43:31 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD snapN45b1 (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.152.6.81 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhrogers000 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22108 "steve hird" wrote: > This year I used an extractor for the first time to extract honey. > The problem is it crystalized very rapidly. Does anybody know what >might have caused this? I do know that I can bring it back by heating >it. ****************************************************** Howdy Steve -- You have two good answere so I'll just give one example. In the summers of 1940 and '41 I worked for a commercial beekeeper in Texas. He kept about 150 hives in the area southwest of Uvalde to get the Huajillo honey. Best honey in the world, I think ! Very light color, but an excellent taste. Only trouble was that it crystallized very quickly. Any of you folks acquainted with this plant and honey ? Pete So much to learn - So little time ! ************************************************** Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. Article 22109 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!vrn.edu.au!news.deakin.edu.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <38337A6B.2AACA6B8@deakin.edu.au> From: adrian dent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: hive protection References: <38223DCB.4F007748@netnitco.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:02:51 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.132.55.68 X-Trace: news.deakin.edu.au 942901386 139.132.55.68 (Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:03:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:03:06 EST Organization: Deakin University, Victoria, Australia Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22109 Chad Howell wrote: > Is there a clear polyurethane that you can treat hive bodies with that > won't harm the bees? Here in Australia, we (at least the beekeepers I know) dip our hives in hot wax. If they look really bad they are also painted before the wax cools with an oil based paint. I think the wax penetrates the wood, thereby helping to waterproof and preserve it right through. Hope its a help. Adrian. Article 22110 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!vrn.edu.au!news.deakin.edu.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <38337B06.9EFD2877@deakin.edu.au> From: adrian dent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Basic extraction questions References: <7v4qei$oga$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <941196077.12733.0.nnrp-14.c2deff79@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:05:26 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.132.55.68 X-Trace: news.deakin.edu.au 942901540 139.132.55.68 (Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:05:40 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:05:40 EST Organization: Deakin University, Victoria, Australia Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22110 > > > The problem I had was, when using the hot knife to uncap the comb, the > wax > > > that the knife melted just ran back over the comb and re-capped it! > > > Anyone have suggestions as to avoiding this minor problem next year? > Do you stand the frame on one end and tilt it so that the wax falls away?? Adrian. Article 22111 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!alpha.sky.net!not-for-mail From: "John O'Brien" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <6ACFA09EF726A1DC.5B2A74EC55C3731F.6DB23936E15B4947@lp.airnews.net> <383228AE.783EBA2E@deakin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Bee sting Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:12:10 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.90.4.166 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sky.net X-Trace: alpha.sky.net 942901933 209.90.4.166 (Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:12:13 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:12:13 CDT Organization: SkyNET Corporation Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22111 adrian dent wrote in message > react badly you should be fine. Often head stings seem to swell up more > than other areas, mostly because the bone is so close to the surface, so On the plus side for head/face stings, they don't leave any marks I.e., when the swelling goes down there won't be a small dot which takes forever to go away. On another plus side, try "making" some sting you on some scar tissue on your body. Get a pleasant suprise. John Article 22112 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: humorous bee commercial on tv Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Nov 1999 14:10:14 GMT Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991118091014.02740.00000211@ngol07.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22112 There is a commercial on TV showing kids escaping attacking bees by entering a van where the doors are activated by a parent. The whole incident is suppose to be humorous. I know that it is a typical kid thing to do to fire rocks at a bees nests. I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack in mass. The car company doesn't show the kids escaping from a vicious pit bull dog. I'm not sure but it may be not be any less dangerous for the kids. Al Article 22113 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp From: "Billy Y. Smart II" Subject: The movie "Ever After" X-Nntp-Posting-Host: rs496769.ks.boeing.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DC4437FD71EE292B7D001D76" Message-ID: <383426FE.E8BC797A@nospam.boeing.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Organization: Tooling Numerical Control Programming Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:19:10 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; AIX 4.3) Lines: 56 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22113 --------------DC4437FD71EE292B7D001D76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello group, I was watching the movie "Ever After" the other day and to my suprise was presented with a scene in which they were collecting honey from what looks to be a skep hive. The movie is a cinderella story set, I believe, in medievil times. Just thought some of you bee historians might want to look for it, it's playing on the premium pays HBO, Showtime, etc. An added bonus is that it stars Drew Barrymore - What a honey! -- Billy Y. Smart II /* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the */ /* Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental. */ /* Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply */ --------------DC4437FD71EE292B7D001D76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hello group,



I was watching the movie "Ever After" the other day and to my suprise was presented



with a scene in which they were collecting honey from what looks to be a skep hive.



The movie is a cinderella story set, I believe, in medievil times. Just thought



some of you bee historians might want to look for it, it's playing on the premium pays HBO, Showtime,



etc. An added bonus is that it stars Drew Barrymore - What a honey!






-- 
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */    
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */

 

--------------DC4437FD71EE292B7D001D76--



Article 22114 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: bees &  van commercial
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There is a commercial on TV showing kids escaping attacking bees by entering a
van where the doors are activated by a parent. The whole incident is suppose to
be humorous.  I know that it is a typical kid thing to do to fire rocks at a
bees nests.

I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack
in mass.

The car company doesn't show the kids escaping from a vicious pit bull dog. I'm
not sure but it may be not be any less dangerous for the kids.
Al



Article 22115 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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	Unfortunately for the honeybees and beekeepers and people that watch
the commercial the portrayal of "bees" from paper nests chasing kids is
wrong. No bees live in paper hives, these would be wasps or hornets.
	Paper wasps or hornets are much more aggressive than honeybees and
under circumstances such as an attack on their colony have been known to
chase a further distance than most would feel comfortable.
Thom Bradley

Jajwuth wrote:
> 
> There is a commercial on TV showing kids escaping attacking bees by entering a
> van where the doors are activated by a parent. The whole incident is suppose to
> be humorous.  I know that it is a typical kid thing to do to fire rocks at a
> bees nests.
> 
> I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack
> in mass.
> 
> The car company doesn't show the kids escaping from a vicious pit bull dog. I'm
> not sure but it may be not be any less dangerous for the kids.
> Al


Article 22116 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:04:29 -0500
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preferred customer  wrote in message
news:01bf31ea$82fb9fa0$8f99d1d1@huey.kih.net...
> hello is anyone on this group?

HeHeHehe
HaHaHaHa
Sure there are people on this group. Kevin is here somewhere





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From: "workerbee" 
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I saw a copy of "Birds and Flowers" Dec/Jan 2000. There is a short article
about a young lady that started keeping bees as a 4H project and now has 10
hives and help from Mom and Dad.

I have also been introduced to the small hive beetle here in Rocky Mount,
NC. Up close and personal.

Don





Article 22118 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth)
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Subject: Re: national geographic
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In article <80sq2r$7n6$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Keith Lacy"
 writes:

>I have a beautiful A3 size soft back book published by Thames & Hudson of 30
>Bloomsbury Street, London WC1B 3QP called Honey Hunters of Nepal by Eric
>Valli and Diane Summers, full of the most amazing pictures.  But it was
>published in 1988 after an earlier expedition and could now be out of print.
>
>Keith Lacy

Yes it is out of print.
I believe the author won a prize for the pictures.
I saw it once at a remainder book sale and am kicking myself for not buying it.
My library doesn't even have it. 
I think the photographer could easily sell prints of the pictures.

thanks
Al



Article 22119 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: bobpursley@aol.com (Bob Pursley)
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Subject: Re: bees &  van commercial
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In article <19991118141117.02900.00000027@ngol06.aol.com>, jajwuth@aol.com
(Jajwuth) writes:

>
>I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack
>in mass.
>

Hornets, in fact most paper wasps, in the near vicinity of their nests, are
aggressive, and attack en mass.


Article 22120 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: Maren Purves 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: bees &  van commercial
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:04:07 -1000
Organization: Joint Astronomy Centre, Hilo, HI
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Bob Pursley wrote:
> In article <19991118141117.02900.00000027@ngol06.aol.com>, jajwuth@aol.com
> (Jajwuth) writes:
> >I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack
> >in mass.
> 
> Hornets, in fact most paper wasps, in the near vicinity of their nests, are
> aggressive, and attack en mass.

sorry, I'm new here (trying to learn something about bee keeping)
and wasn't going to post, but: we have had paper wasps on our
back porch under the roof for years and they've never attacked
anyone of us.

Maren, in Hilo, HI


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Subject: Re: hello
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>HeHeHehe
>HaHaHaHa
>Sure there are people on this group. Kevin is here somewhere
>
>
you rang ???????????
whats the deal with the bettle don ?
hope you called it in ..



Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC



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From: Scot Mc Pherson 
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Tom Gee wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 19:51:04 -0600, Charles "Stretch" Ledford
>  wrote:
> >In article ,
> >ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote:
> >>
> >> If you want to be religious, you need faith.  Believing is actually
> >> knowing something tangible like:
> >>
> >> Pi (3.14159265358979323846...) which is The ratio of the circumference
> >> to the diameter of a circle.  I believe Pi is really there.
> >
> >AHA!
> >
> >YOU've just proven that you DO have FAITH!
> >
> >As far as I know, Pi has never been calculated to it's final decimal
> >place, even by a supercomputer... thus...
> 
> Oh, I just couldn't pass this one up.  Pi is an irrational number
> that cannot be expressed as a ratio of two numbers.  Which means that
> there is *no* final decimal place, but in fact the digits of Pi form an
> infinite, nonrepeating sequence.

Ok, I realize I am being picky about something totally off topic, but
Math is a favourite topic of mine. So please take this as hearty
discussion, and not arguing. Thanx ahead of time for the fun..

Just because you can't express Pi in a decimal numbering system, does
not mean it can't be represented as a ratio....The only problem with Pi
is that it is incompatible with decimal. But it can be expressed thusly:

1:22/7 or 1:3&1/7

If the diameter of a circle is 7 than the circumference is exactly
22...Not being able to compute the decimal value of Pi is a function of
the fact the 7 doesn't devide into 1 very well, not because we can't
find the value of the circumference.



Scot
behomet@home.com

>> Tom
> ---
> Tom.Gee@dciem.dnd.ca


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John Caldeira wrote:
> 
> "carmanz"  wrote:
> >many thanks to all those who came forward with the suggestion of using
> >surgical gloves instead of leather gloves ..  when entering the hives
> >I trialled them yesterday and they work a treat .. a lot less bulky
> >very helpful
> 
> Surgical gloves in New Zealand must be stronger than those we have in
> North America.  The surgical gloves I use when painting usually tear
> through the fingertips pretty quickly.  They also don't allow sweat to
> evaporate.
> 
> Leather, or canvas/leather gloves may not give the dexterity needed
> for fine work like marking queens, but they are strong and your hands
> don't swim in sweat like they do in rubber gloves.
> 
> -John
> 
> John Caldeira
> Dallas, Texas
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/

Latex Gloves are very susceptable to petrochemicals, of which you find
loads in painting supplies. That's probably why you find the tips of
your gloves deteriorate so quickly.

Scot


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Dave Black wrote:
> 
> In article <19991115180813.15136.00001426@ng-fn1.news.cs.com>, Robert
> Williamson  writes
> >>This year I used an extractor for the first time to extract honey.
> >>The problem is it crystalized very rapidly.  Does anybody know what might
> >>have caused this?
> 
> >The reason honey crystalizes is the abundance of particles inside the honey.
> >The crap you buy on the store shelves has been filtered to at least 20 microns
> 
> This is so, but not all the story. Honey is a mix of sugars, the
> proportions vary with type. High fructose contents increase the
> solubility of glucose, which is relatively insoluble, but only at an
> optimum hive temperature (about 30C). If the temperature changes the
> glucose is liable to come out of solution and in any case it is the
> amount of glucose in proportion to water (White's ratio) that roughly
> determines granulation. A honey like  rape (canola) has more glucose
> than fructose and crystalises rapidly, honeys like acacia or sourwood
> have more fructose than glucose and may never granulate. The onset of
> granulation can be aided (or not) by suspended particles.
> 
> It is this peculiarity of fructose that makes honey so good, if the
> sugars were sucrose or glucose not nearly as much could be contained in
> solution and it would not be the concentrated energy source that it is.
> Obviously precisely what sugars end up in honey is determined by the
> types of sugars found in the original nectar.
> 
> Dave Black
> Surrey, UK.
> http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive


In addition, enzymes that the bees impart to the honey also help it
ability to stay liquified. Without the enzymes, the honey would be
considered supersaturated with sugar and thus it would precipitate out
of the sugar and cause a reaction which along with convection pulls more
solids out of the honey. As more water evaporates from the honey, the
solids must go somewhere and they build upon the crystal strucutes. Its
the same as making rock candy essentially, but the bee's enzymes
increase the saturation level of the honey.

And as stated above, fructose helps keep the glucose suspended in the
liquid, in the very same way that alcohol can be used to mix water and
gasoline. (Dry Gas)


Scot


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Yeah I have also noticed that most varieties of paper wasps aren't too
agressive, but they are very defensive and personal space sensitive.
Next time you get near one, notice how it becomes aggitated and seems to
pay more attention to you.

Hornets though are very aggressive.

Something weird and maybe just coincidence, but the brighter and more
brilliant the color of the wasp/hornet/yellowjacket, the more aggressive
they seem to be.

Scot


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Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question
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Scot enters the fray:

>If the diameter of a circle is 7 than the circumference is exactly
>22...Not being able to compute the decimal value of Pi is a function of
>the fact the 7 doesn't devide into 1 very well, not because we can't
>find the value of the circumference.

Good man Scot, like I said: 

>On the other hand I can prove to you that Pi exist, because there is
>nothing about getting the right answer in math that requires faith.

C.K.

p.s. Scot off topics are the essence of usenet.  Do you know there are
people out there that are so constipated they not only cannot devise a
filter for saving themselves the agonies of viewing off topic post, but
they can't even delete the offending text without writhing about on the
floor and frothing at the mouth.  You don't want to worry about them.



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giant honey bee as large as a queen (bee) of the italian race.
it builds single comb in daylight
the single comb can be 6 feet long and 3 feet wide
it has been hived using unorthodox methods according to one reference. no
further details were given. it would be interesting to know how it was hived
since they prefer to build their nest in daylight
Al


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I've also noticed my pit bull dog isn't the least bit vicious since I got one
from the pound more than a year ago. We're training it to do service work for
my disabled wife. That's not to say that there aren't vicious pit bulls out
there, just that their vicousness is probably the result of extensive human
behavior modification.
It's the same with pit bulls as with honey bees: People reach for an easy
stereotype that slurs a lot of decent, hard-working animals.


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>I was wondering if the bees in the paper type nests are of the type to attack
>in mass.

    Haven't seen the commercial yet, so don't know what you are referring
to....but.....a major clarification:  bees do not build paper nests.  The
creatures in paper nests are hornets, or paper wasps, not bees.

   And hornets, paper wasps, yellow jackets are much more likely to be
defensive than honeybees, in my experience.  White faced hornets are the big
ones in large gray paper nests, and they will chase you quite a ways, if you
toss a rock at their home.  OTOH, I have stood right next to their nest for a
half hour or more, and not a one showed the slightest interest in me.


Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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From: Maren Purves m.purves@jach.hawaii.edu 

>sorry, I'm new here (trying to learn something about bee keeping)
>and wasn't going to post, but: we have had paper wasps on our
>back porch under the roof for years and they've never attacked
>anyone of us.

   Solitary or semisocial wasps are quite mild mannered.  The large nests of
the fully social wasps can be another story.  I took out a nest in a porch
ceiling that almost entirely filled the spaces between three joists, and
consisted of several thousand individuals. They were VERY hot tempered.  The
most unusual thing is that the nest had survived one winter and continued the
next season. Usually they die when winter comes, but this was a very sheltered
location.


Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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Subject: Separating capping honey and wax.
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I'd like to hear from you beekeepers about how you separate the
capping wax from the excellent honey that comes with it.  This years
harvest is in and we used a solar "cooker" where a cheesecloth lined
sieve was put over a bucket and in front on one of our solar collector
windows.  This worked pretty well but seems like there is still a lot
of honey in there.

Any suggestions?  How do you do it?

Mikey  mailto:TouchtheEarth@bwn.net  if you like but prefer posts.



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	When people speak of ignorance we must allow the contradiction of their
own argument come through without comment lest people lump us in the
same group. 
(Even though we feel better when we do comment.)

Thom Bradley
Thom's Honeybees
Chesapeake, VA

To reply move the "trailer B's"

Hk1BeeMan wrote:
> 
> >who was on about fornicators spreading aids
> >with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper.
> 
> grrrrrrrrrr.........
> 
> Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC


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From: "workerbee" 
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Subject: Re: hello
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:48:08 -0500
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Yep, I sent it to the University. It are a beetle of the persuasion I did'
want around.
Hk1BeeMan  wrote in message
news:19991118175932.04448.00000010@ng-fn1.aol.com...
> >HeHeHehe
> >HaHaHaHa
> >Sure there are people on this group. Kevin is here somewhere
> >
> >
> you rang ???????????
> whats the deal with the bettle don ?
> hope you called it in ..
>
>
>
> Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC
>





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On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:26:23 -0600, Charlie Kroeger
 wrote:
>Scot enters the fray:
>
>>If the diameter of a circle is 7 than the circumference is exactly
>>22...Not being able to compute the decimal value of Pi is a function of
>>the fact the 7 doesn't devide into 1 very well, not because we can't
>>find the value of the circumference.
>
>p.s. Scot off topics are the essence of usenet.

Since Scot gives me permission, I'll make one last post about Pi on the
beekeeping newsgroup.  I promise this will be my last.  Bees are much
too interesting to have their newsgroup cluttered with irrelevant posts...

22/7 is an ok approximation of Pi, good to 2 decimal places (3.14).  But it
is not the precise value of Pi.  A circle with a diameter of 7 actually has
a circumference of...

	21.99114857512855266923850368295652018938018579562574074682461214615\
	471484400346299039624377739481942

...and a bit.

The decimal system can express any number that can be represented as a ratio,
but it has been *proven* that there is no such ratio for Pi.  The problem is
decimal notation, but the irrational nature of Pi.

A one page version of the proof of the irrationality of Pi can be found here:

	http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~malek/Mathlinks/Pi.html

The "Common Book of Pi" which is an interesting introduction to the value is
at:
	http://ernie.bgsu.edu/~carother/pi/Pi1.html

So, that's all from me.  Let's return to the fascinating task of
beekeeping!

Tom
---
Tom.Gee@dciem.dnd.ca


Article 22136 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth)
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Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question
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In article , gee@pcgee.dciem.dnd.ca (Tom
Gee) writes:

>Since Scot gives me permission, I'll make one last post about Pi on the
>beekeeping newsgroup.  I promise this will be my last.  Bees are much
>too interesting to have their newsgroup cluttered with irrelevant posts...
>
>22/7 is an ok approximation of Pi, good to 2 decimal places (3.14).  But it
>is not the precise value of Pi.  A circle with a diameter of 7 actually has
>a circumference of...
>
>	21.99114857512855266923850368295652018938018579562574074682461214615\
>	471484400346299039624377739481942
>
>...and a bit.

Seems like the circumference never ends but reaches an upper limit. Even though
it has a physical presence. 
Can you say anything mathematically about the hexagonal shape of the honey bees
comb. 
Would it be possible to identify the race of the honey bee by the size and
shape of the comb.
Al
  


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Subject: Re: Basic extraction questions
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adrian dent  wrote in message
news:38337B06.9EFD2877@deakin.edu.au...
>
>
> > > > The problem I had was, when using the hot knife to uncap the comb,
the
> > wax
> > > > that the knife melted just ran back over the comb and re-capped it!
> > > > Anyone have suggestions as to avoiding this minor problem next year?
---------------------------------

Use a cold knife - a ham knife is excellent.




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From: "Peter Edwards" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha)
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Silviu-Alin Bacanu  wrote in message
news:38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu...
> Hi guys!
>
> Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or
> /ha) for different plants.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the delay in responding.

See Eva Crane's book, 'Honey', which gives potential yields for 200 top bee
plants.




Article 22139 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
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Subject: menthol treatment
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:25:18 -0500
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Would someone please direct me to a site that gives instructions for using
the shop towel method of using menthol in the hive. I will start treating
for the small hive beetle next week when the medicine arrives. The inspector
went through 26 hives today in four locations. We found beetles in two hives
only and they are in my back yard. Needless to say, I'm quarrented for a
while Not funny.
Don in NC





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Hi "Stretch" ,
       My wife has MS and as a last ,but thankfully good ,resort we started
BVT (bee venom therapy).This helped her MS and Later my arthritis.As a
result of study and practice over 3 years we learned a few things.1st to
hold down swelling or to reduce it rum Preparation H on the affected
area(no this is not a joke). The advice to get more stings is correct.In bee
venom therapy we sting several times a couple of times a week.You need to
get a small mustard jar fill 2/3 full with mix 0f half rubbing alcohol and
water and freeze it.The jar will not brake and you use this to numb the spot
you want to sting.Take the stinger out right away.One sting twice a week for
two or three weeks will stop the swelling and rash for about 2 months then
you need to repeat.You will know when you reach the time to stop because you
will go through a day feeling like you are catching a cold.This is called in
a therapy circles as "the healing crisis".If you do not want to go through
the "crisis" again get 1 sting every 2 to 3 weeks.Allergy to bees is
respiratory your reaction was topical.You are not allergic unless you have
trouble breathing.

--
Ray & CC  Anthony
http://www.netex.quik.com/hopewell/
hopewell@netex.quik.com





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Subject: HELP
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 23:01:20 GMT
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Swain & Son▓s Apiaries
% Palm Beach Steamshipping Agency
M.V Duke
158 B East Porth RD
Riviera Beach Fla. 33404

Swain & Son▓s A family owned vegetable, banana, and honey farm [ and we was
just getting started to ] Was destroyed by hurricane floyed

	And we are in desperate need of donated items such as 2■-layflat
T-tape 3-1/2 to 5-hp propane powered water pump pressure treated lumber such
as, 2x4, 2/6, 2/10. 4/4, t & g plywood , tarpaper, felting Nails, back-pak
sprayer, shipping container or lawn shed for storage, Hive suppers, frame,
foundation, bee-suits, vials, gloves etra-large, and smoker Brush mower,
fertilizer, any help no matter how small will be greatly appriaceted

Monetary donation can be sent to account # 11052 Scotiabank branch #01085
Marsh Harbour Abaco Bahamas 242,367-2142

				Thanking you in advance, very much



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


Article 22142 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: Maren Purves 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: bees &  van commercial
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:12:02 -1000
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Dave Green wrote:
> From: Maren Purves m.purves@jach.hawaii.edu
> >sorry, I'm new here (trying to learn something about bee keeping)
> >and wasn't going to post, but: we have had paper wasps on our
> >back porch under the roof for years and they've never attacked
> >anyone of us.
> 
>    Solitary or semisocial wasps are quite mild mannered.  The large nests of
> the fully social wasps can be another story.  I took out a nest in a porch
> ceiling that almost entirely filled the spaces between three joists,

this may be the difference, the nest has been there for maybe 4 years
now (this is the second one, we never took the old one down, the paper
wasps in it just vanished), and it is maybe 6" in diameter. Not too
many paper wasps in that one.

> Usually they die when winter comes,

they certainly don't here :-)

Maren, in Hilo, HI


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John O'Brien wrote:

> On the plus side for head/face stings,  they don't leave any marks
> I.e., when the swelling goes down there won't be a small dot which
> takes forever to go away.
> 
> On another plus side, try "making" some sting you on some
> scar tissue on your body.  Get a pleasant suprise.

Yo John:

Do you still reckon it would be a "pleasant suprise" if the scar
tissue happened to be as a result of a vasectomy?  :-)

Skip

-- 
Skip and Christy Hensler
THE ROCK GARDEN
Newport, Wash.
http://www.povn.com/rock


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In article <19991118231416.08513.00000572@ng-cr1.aol.com>, jmitc1014@aol.com
(JMitc1014) writes:

>ve also noticed my pit bull dog isn't the least bit vicious since I got one
>from the pound more than a year ago. We're training it to do service work for
>my disabled wife. That's not to say that there aren't vicious pit bulls out
>there, just that their vicousness is probably the result of extensive human
>behavior modification.
>It's the same with pit bulls as with honey bees: People reach for an easy
>stereotype that slurs a lot of decent, hard-working animals.
>
>

Enjoy your dog I'm sure he/she is a good pet.
My brother has a stafforshire(sp) bull terrior which is good with people but
will fight other dogs.
I have a dog and a cat. The cat I got from the pound. The dog I had to get from
a pet shop since the pound only had big dogs. My dog is a coca-pooh (sp)
(poodle cocker spaniel mix). Like most dogs it has better social skills than a
lot people. My brother's dog would likely want my dog for lunch so the dogs
have never met.

In my posting maybe I should have said vicious police dog. Here in my neck of
the woods a police dog today bit an innocent lady jogger while the cops were
searching in the woods.It may not have been the dog's fault.  Police dogs do
some remarkable work so that wouldn't be appropriate either.   
Al


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Actually, the bees got the better of my pit bull. Often when I go to work my
bees, I take her. Once she tried to chomp a bee. One side of her snout swelled
up. Now she keeps a healthy distance now from the bee hives.


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From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:43:37 -0600
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In article , gee@pcgee.dciem.dnd.ca
(Tom Gee) wrote:


> 22/7 is an ok approximation of Pi, good to 2 decimal places (3.14).  But it
> is not the precise value of Pi.  A circle with a diameter of 7 actually has
> a circumference of...
> 
>         21.99114857512855266923850368295652018938018579562574074682461214615\
>         471484400346299039624377739481942
> 
> ...and a bit.
> 
> The decimal system can express any number that can be represented as a ratio,
> but it has been *proven* that there is no such ratio for Pi.  The problem is
> decimal notation, but the irrational nature of Pi.
> 


Exactly my armchair philosopher's point, now backed up by an armchair
mathametician.

If ya believe in Pi, ya gotta have faith.  You don't see it, never will,
but, based on the circumstantial evidence, it works.

-- 
Charles "Stretch" Ledford
STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY
"North America and the Entire World"
http://www.GoStretch.com


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From: AL 
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Charles Stretch Ledford wrote:
> 
> In article , gee@pcgee.dciem.dnd.ca
> (Tom Gee) wrote:
> 
> > 22/7 is an ok approximation of Pi, good to 2 decimal places (3.14).  But it
> > is not the precise value of Pi.  A circle with a diameter of 7 actually has
> > a circumference of...
> >
> >         21.99114857512855266923850368295652018938018579562574074682461214615\
> >         471484400346299039624377739481942
> >
> > ...and a bit.
> >
> > The decimal system can express any number that can be represented as a ratio,
> > but it has been *proven* that there is no such ratio for Pi.  The problem is
> > decimal notation, but the irrational nature of Pi.
> >
> 
> Exactly my armchair philosopher's point, now backed up by an armchair
> mathametician.
> 
> If ya believe in Pi, ya gotta have faith.  You don't see it, never will,
> but, based on the circumstantial evidence, it works.
> 
>


OK, I've been watching this thread disintegrate for some time, even
contributed to its demise myself. But, the equating of "belief in Pi"
with use of Pi (in decimal form) for mathematical convenience has
totally escaped me. If you have a circle with a circumference of 22 you
*will* have a diameter of 7 - where does "faith" enter in to that??? If
you insist on using 22/7 as the value of Pi in your calculations instead
of 3.14168 would you be labeled an "unbeliever"? Judging from this line
of discussion I'd have to "believe" Pi is not the only thing being
irrational.


AL


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 AL  writes:

>OK, I've been watching this thread disintegrate for some time, even
>contributed to its demise myself. But, the equating of "belief in Pi"
>with use of Pi (in decimal form) for mathematical convenience has
>totally escaped me. If you have a circle with a circumference of 22 you
>*will* have a diameter of 7 - where does "faith" enter in to that??? If
>you insist on using 22/7 as the value of Pi in your calculations instead
>of 3.14168 would you be labeled an "unbeliever"? Judging from this line
>of discussion I'd have to "believe" Pi is not the only thing being
>irrational.
>
>
>AL
>
>
>
Why don't you start with a circle of circumference 2. Then the diameter is
2/pi. Then you don't have to worry about 22/7 or the decimal expansion of pi.
Couldn't we get onto hexagons, thats what bees are all about.
Al



Article 22150 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Don,
	What town are your beetles in? I watch for beetle announcements as I
have a number of hives and do pollination work in NC.
Thom Bradley
Chesapeake, VA and Tyner, NC

workerbee wrote:
> 
> Would someone please direct me to a site that gives instructions for using
> the shop towel method of using menthol in the hive. I will start treating
> for the small hive beetle next week when the medicine arrives. The inspector
> went through 26 hives today in four locations. We found beetles in two hives
> only and they are in my back yard. Needless to say, I'm quarrented for a
> while Not funny.
> Don in NC


Article 22151 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "John O'Brien" 
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J.F.Hensler  wrote in message
> > On another plus side, try "making" some sting you on some
> > scar tissue on your body.  Get a pleasant suprise.
>
> Yo John:
> Do you still reckon it would be a "pleasant suprise" if the scar
> tissue happened to be as a result of a vasectomy?  :-)
> > Skip> Skip and Christy Hensler

I know that you and the rest of the men here (and probably the
women also) will find it hard to believe, but, yes.

As I told people here before, I have MS and I have the
chronic progressive type of which there is no medication
thus far which has any kind of positive effects.  Thus I
am using bee venom via actual bee stings from my hive
in the backyard to relieve some of my ailments.
This to good affects so far or I certainly would not be still
doing it, because it does hurt.

One of the effects of MS is ED or impotence.  One of
the remedies, of course, is Viagra which I use to good
effect.  However, I also use beestings in the groin area
and on the penis itself to increase blood flow and
sensitivity to those regions.   I am telling the absolute
truth, stings in those areas, frightening to think about
though they are, are no more painful than a sting on
the hand or arm or neck or where ever.  Also, no
more dangerous.

What I meant by the pleasant suprise, was that the
scar tissue will begin to take on a more normal skin-
like texture and that stings on a scared area are
much less painful, as the nerve tissues in that area
have been dulled or removed as a result of the scar.

The bee venom will help rebuild scarred areas.

John





Article 22152 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Dads quik news  wrote in message
> Hi "Stretch" ,
>        My wife has MS and as a last ,but thankfully good ,resort we
started
> BVT (bee venom therapy).This helped her MS and Later my arthritis.As
a
> hold down swelling or to reduce it rum Preparation H on the affected
........
> get a small mustard jar fill 2/3 full with mix 0f half rubbing
alcohol and
> water and freeze it.The jar will not brake and you use this to numb
the spot
> Ray & CC  Anthony

Ray, this, of course, is good advice for those not actually
performing Bee sting therapy, as you folks and I are doing.

However, for us it is bad advice.

You and CC would get even better effects from the
bee stings if you give up the rubbing ointment you
are talking about.  You need to subscribe to the
Apitherapy Mailing list and read the archives about
this subject or re-ask the question.
http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/apithera.htm

The alcohol (especially) and the prep. H are going to negate
the longterm good effects of the bee venom.  Yes,
you will still get the immediate effects but you will
get better effects by going without any numbing
agent prior to or even after the sting(s).

If you must use something, use ice only and wipe
of the melted water before giving the stings.

John




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From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: raccoon problems
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>Has anyone had any trouble with coons?  what did you
>do?
>

We've had coon problems in our warehouse. It seems they absolutely love Corn
syrup. Besides waiting and trying to shoot them we came up with an alternative
method. We leave an open top barrel about one-third full of syrup. The coons go
crazy over it and go inside. Once they fall inside the corn syrup weights them
and also makes then too slippery to claw their way out. Ours usually drown in
the syrup, but if not they are not going anywhere. We do this inside so I'm not
sure how you would adapt it for outside considering the fact that you would
have to have it out after dark and in before daylight. You might even trying
luring them into a nearby building with it.

Robert Williamson
Southeast Texas Honey Co.
P.O. Box 176
Vidor, Tx. 77670
" A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince"


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Try http://whipper.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll
 or http://www.bookfinder.com/
These are my favorite used bookseller search engines, and one of their
affiliated booksellers almost always has a copy of whatever I am looking
for... Not always at a price I can affored, But that is life....

Ellen



Jajwuth  wrote in message
news:19991118164537.01916.00000331@ngol02.aol.com...
> In article <80sq2r$7n6$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Keith Lacy"
>  writes:
>
> >I have a beautiful A3 size soft back book published by Thames & Hudson of
30
> >Bloomsbury Street, London WC1B 3QP called Honey Hunters of Nepal by Eric
> >Valli and Diane Summers, full of the most amazing pictures.  But it was
> >published in 1988 after an earlier expedition and could now be out of
print.
> >
> >Keith Lacy
>
> Yes it is out of print.
> I believe the author won a prize for the pictures.
> I saw it once at a remainder book sale and am kicking myself for not
buying it.
> My library doesn't even have it.
> I think the photographer could easily sell prints of the pictures.
>
> thanks
> Al
>




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Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
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Subject: Re: The movie "Ever After"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01BF3352.BAB93CE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Yeah- I was tickled by this scene, but laughing a little too- They were =
wearing veils, and surrounded by buzzing bees, but there were no bees in =
the skep that they were scooping the honey out of with a spoon, or on =
the honeycomb in the open dish they spooned it into.
They did have the skep right- It had a removeable eke style lid, and the =
comb inside was arranged correctly.  Just no bees protesting the comb =
removal.
    It was refreshing to see that the bees weren't being made out to be =
mean, etc. It wasis a very sweet (Fairy tale) portrayal of beekeeping =
and harvesting honey.

Ellen
  Billy Y. Smart II  wrote in message =
news:383426FE.E8BC797A@nospam.boeing.com...
Hello group,

I was watching the movie "Ever After" the other day and to my suprise =
was presented
with a scene in which they were collecting honey from what looks to be a =
skep hive.
The movie is a cinderella story set, I believe, in medievil times. Just =
thought
some of you bee historians might want to look for it, it's playing on =
the premium pays HBO, Showtime,
etc. An added bonus is that it stars Drew Barrymore - What a honey!

--=20
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */   =20
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */
   =20

------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01BF3352.BAB93CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Yeah- I was tickled by this scene, but laughing a =
little too-=20
They were wearing veils, and surrounded by buzzing bees, but there were =
no bees=20
in the skep that they were scooping the honey out of with a spoon, or on =
the=20
honeycomb in the open dish they spooned it into.


They did have the skep right- It had a removeable =
eke style=20
lid, and the comb inside was arranged correctly.  Just no bees =
protesting=20
the comb removal.


    It was refreshing to see that the =
bees=20
weren't being made out to be mean, etc. It wasis a =
very=20
sweet (Fairy tale) portrayal of beekeeping and harvesting =
honey.


 


Ellen


  
Billy Y. Smart II <Billy.Y.Smart@nospam.boei=
ng.com>=20
  wrote in message news:383426FE.E8BC797A@=
nospam.boeing.com...
Hello group,
I =
was watching the movie "Ever After" the other day and to my suprise was =
presented
with a scene in which they were collecting honey =
from what looks to be a skep hive.
The movie is a cinderella =
story set, I believe, in medievil times. Just thought
some of =
you bee historians might want to look for it, it's playing on the =
premium pays HBO, Showtime,
etc. An added bonus is that it =
stars Drew Barrymore - What a honey!
-- 
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely =
coincidental.    */    
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to =
reply        */
 =20


------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01BF3352.BAB93CE0--



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I live in the Chicagoland area in Illnois, and am looking for info. on
local bee keepers in the area. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance
dan



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kaspi@webtv.net (Lisa Heard) wrote:

>I live in the Chicagoland area in Illnois, and am looking for info. on
>local bee keepers in the area. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

>Thank you in advance
>dan

Call your state dept. of agriculture.  Ask for the apiary
inspection branch, they can help you.

Greg the beekeep



       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



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From: christopher.slade@zbee.com (Christopher Slade)
To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: national geographic
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 J> In article <80sq2r$7n6$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>,
 J> "Keith Lacy"  writes:

>>I have a beautiful A3 size soft back book published
>>by Thames & Hudson of 30 Bloomsbury Street, London
>>WC1B 3QP called Honey Hunters of Nepal by Eric Valli
>>and Diane Summers, full of the most amazing pictures.
>>But it was published in 1988 after an earlier
>>expedition and could now be out of print.
>>Keith Lacy

 J> Yes it is out of print.
 J> I believe the author won a prize for the pictures.
 J> I saw it once at a remainder book sale and am
 J> kicking myself for not buying it. My library
 J> doesn't even have it.
 J> I think the photographer could easily sell prints
 J> of the pictures.

 J> thanks
 J> Al
I saw copies of this book for sale at the London National Honey Show  on 12
November.  I can't remember whether Northern Bee Books or Bee Books Old & New
had it; possibly both
Chris Slade

---
 * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186)


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Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: unknown bee type
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:24:34 -0500
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Hi all,

I was out watching the girls today (@68 degrees and moist in NJ) and saw
a honey bee with a golden furry thorax and what appeared to be
completely black (maybe so dark brown it only seemed so) abdomen.  No
stripes.  I have also seen the occaisional bee with largely black bottom
abdomen and only a bit of lighter brown at the join to the thorax.  Any
one keep these type bees and what are they?  I have only seen them as
what seem to be attempted robbers. One or two at a time.  Could it be a
local wild hive?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.  Just curious ;-)
Shari


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From: jmitc1014@aol.com (JMitc1014)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: raccoon problems
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I had raccoon visitors to one of my sites in eastern Massachusetts.  I knew it
was raccoons by the wet paw prints and mud on the landing board (raccoons love
water), lack of skunk smell and lack of other indicators of skunk (scat with
bee husks, areas in front of hive where bees had been rolled, etc.). 
The worst was when I visited my hives at that site and found the cover had been
knocked off one hive.
I resolved the situation by placing asphalt roof shingles bristling with nails
around the front and sides of the 3 hives at that location. 
The shingles are better than boards because it is easier to drive nails through
the soft asphault. You can push them through with your fingers, which requires
less effort than hammering them through a board. The nails also yield if you 
accidentally step on one ≈ so the nails don't go through your boot.
This is a good solution for a hobbyist with a few hives, but impractical for a
commercial operator with 30+ hives at a site. 


Article 22161 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: menthol treatment
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:02:19 -0500
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I live in Rocky Mount with I95 on one side and US 301 on the other. Both
major corridors for bees moving from down South to up North for pollination.
There are also bees from Fla. used for pollination in the area all around
me. It should be noticed that the beetle was found in one hive that was
always in my back yard and the other one, we are not sure of but suspect it
had a frame moved to it from the other infected hive. No beetles were found
in any other of the 15 hives. No larva or damage was found. I have been told
to treat all hives and spray the ground around them. Seems like I any have
the adults and may have caught them before they reproduced. I'm not sure I
believe that though.
Good luck with yours
Don
Thom Bradley  wrote in message
news:3836A291.27350117@visi.net...
> Don,
> What town are your beetles in? I watch for beetle announcements as I
> have a number of hives and do pollination work in NC.
> Thom Bradley
> Chesapeake, VA and Tyner, NC
>
> workerbee wrote:
> >
> > Would someone please direct me to a site that gives instructions for
using
> > the shop towel method of using menthol in the hive. I will start
treating
> > for the small hive beetle next week when the medicine arrives. The
inspector
> > went through 26 hives today in four locations. We found beetles in two
hives
> > only and they are in my back yard. Needless to say, I'm quarrented for a
> > while Not funny.
> > Don in NC





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No beetles yet in the eastern NC but we are more careful. We reiterate
the differences between wax moth and beetle larva at every other meeting
or so.
Thanks for the info and hope you can get 'em before the larva stage.

Thom

workerbee wrote:
> 
> I live in Rocky Mount with I95 on one side and US 301 on the other. Both
> major corridors for bees moving from down South to up North for pollination.
> There are also bees from Fla. used for pollination in the area all around
> me. It should be noticed that the beetle was found in one hive that was
> always in my back yard and the other one, we are not sure of but suspect it
> had a frame moved to it from the other infected hive. No beetles were found
> in any other of the 15 hives. No larva or damage was found. I have been told
> to treat all hives and spray the ground around them. Seems like I any have
> the adults and may have caught them before they reproduced. I'm not sure I
> believe that though.
> Good luck with yours
> Don
> Thom Bradley  wrote in message
> news:3836A291.27350117@visi.net...
> > Don,
> > What town are your beetles in? I watch for beetle announcements as I
> > have a number of hives and do pollination work in NC.
> > Thom Bradley
> > Chesapeake, VA and Tyner, NC
> >
> > workerbee wrote:
> > >
> > > Would someone please direct me to a site that gives instructions for
> using
> > > the shop towel method of using menthol in the hive. I will start
> treating
> > > for the small hive beetle next week when the medicine arrives. The
> inspector
> > > went through 26 hives today in four locations. We found beetles in two
> hives
> > > only and they are in my back yard. Needless to say, I'm quarrented for a
> > > while Not funny.
> > > Don in NC


Article 22163 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: steven.turner@zbee.com (Steven Turner)
To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: The 1999 National Honey Show
Message-ID: <943192939@zbee.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:02:19 +0000
Distribution: world
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Hello all,
 At the 1999 National Honey Show
I took 106 digital pictures of show stands
and displays and people at the show.
Each picture file is approximately 450KB
the total collection is about 43.7MB
Some of the pictures would be useful to
beekeeping publications around the world
some of them can be viewed from the NHS
web site http://www.honeyshow.co.uk click on the link
"Live at the 1999 National Honey Show ".

This collecting of pictures is copy right free
and can be distributed. No PIcture listings
are available at the moment, so you would need to
spend time looking at the high quality jpg's.
with Windows explorer.

If you would like this collection on CDROM
contact me. The idea is to help publicise the
National Honey Show and therefore only my  cost
need be covered. 5UKP per cdrom, this includes postage.




--- 
STEVEN TURNER 
Beenet UK Host. 
http://www.kentbee.com/ 
Email: st@zbee.com

... Platinum Xpress, Wildcat 5, Mailtraq......What else!


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From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: honey in 4lb tins
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When did beekeepers sell honey in tins?
I have two 4lb tins. They were sold to beekeepers who would stamp the name of
their apiary and honey type. One tin has a picture of a skep hive and the other
is more plain with recipies using honey on the back.
Al


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From: "Dennis Crutchfield" 
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Subject: mites control
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I have a question for some of you, I have treated for mites with my apistan
strips. Today I went out to inspect them. And noticed some of the bees are
wingless and are full of mites again. I treated them in july. Cold weather
is going to start in 3or 4 days. These are new hives, taken from swarms.
Requeened this fall. I have went on and put in new strips. But this will
make the strips come out in the middle of winter. I live in Missouri. Is
there anyother thing I can do to kill the mites. Is there anyother thing to
try. I thought it worse to leave them till spring, so i put some more strips
in. This will mean they will come out in jan.
any suggestions
preacher




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From: Conrad 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Honey preparation without extractor - Newbie question.
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:06:44 +0000
Organization: Ceebees
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Hi

I am a newcomer both to this n/g and bee-keeping. I have acquired a
couple of hives from a neighbour whose bee-keeping husband has recently
died, one of which is occupied. Hopefully I have prepared the hive and
colony for the winter but am now left with a super full of honey. Is
there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor
which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small
amount?

I would be grateful for any advice on this.

Thanks
-- 
Conrad


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From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan)
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Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question
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> decimal notation, but the irrational nature of Pi.

Ya know folks say them Pi are square

But i can relieve your worries on this
Pi are definately round
And they's good eatin too !!!!


Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC



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test




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From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:04:15 -0500
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Thanks Peter!

I guess Eva Crane's book "Honey" is printed only in UK because here is what I
found at amazon, borders, etc
(does any of them rings any bell as the book to give potential honey yields) :

                    Here are your search results for Author is Crane, Eva

                    We found 5 matching titles.
                    1 - 5 are displayed below in bestselling order.
                    We also found 2 Out-of-Print and Used Titles

                    Re-sort my search in: Bestselling,  A to Z,  Date Published
order.

                      1.
                          From Where I Sit: Essays on Bees, Beekeeping, and
Science
                          In-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.
                          Mark L. Winston,Foreword by Eva Crane / Paperback /
Date Published: March 1998
                          Our Price: $29.95
                            Buy this book or read more about it
                      2.
                          From Where I Sit: Essays on Bees, Beekeeping, and
Science
                          In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days.
                          Mark L. Winston,Foreword by Eva Crane / Paperback /
Date Published: March 1998
                          Our Price: $14.95
                            Buy this book or read more about it
                      3.
                          The Archaeology of Beekeeping
                          In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days.
                          Eva Crane,A. J. Graham (Translator) / Hardcover /
Date Published: January 1984
                          Our Price: $55.00
                            Buy this book or read more about it
                      4.
                          Bees and Beekeeping: Science Practice and World
Resources
                          In-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.
                          Eva Crane / Hardcover / Date Published: May 1990
                          Our Price: $120.00
                            Buy this book or read more about it
                      5.
                          The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting
                          Available: Ships 1-2 weeks.
                          Eva Crane / Paperback / Date Published: September
1999
                          Our Price: $95.00
                            Buy this book or read more about it



Peter Edwards wrote:

> Silviu-Alin Bacanu  wrote in message
> news:38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu...
> > Hi guys!
> >
> > Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or
> > /ha) for different plants.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sorry for the delay in responding.
>
> See Eva Crane's book, 'Honey', which gives potential yields for 200 top bee
> plants.



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http://home.att.net/~troy.lilly/otwrldelec.htm
Please post this in your news group.
Visit our Free Website dedicated to free internet education and electronics and computer engineering. This free unique resource is maintained and consistantly updated by a group of 4.0 electronics & Computer engineering graduates and Certified electronic technicians as well as internet webmasters.     Enjoy your free education!!!
http://home.beseen.com/technology/twayne01/index.htm
mhopgycywyiuyl



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From: workerbee 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: menthol treatment
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:48:24 -0500
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Please explain Eastern NC. We are in Eastern NC and another beekeeper found a
beetle yesterday.
Please explain "we are more careful". The beetle comes before the larva and since
the beetle flies in undected i do not understand how we can be more careful.

Thom Bradley wrote:

> No beetles yet in the eastern NC but we are more careful. We reiterate
> the differences between wax moth and beetle larva at every other meeting
> or so.
> Thanks for the info and hope you can get 'em before the larva stage.
>
> Thom
>
> workerbee wrote:
> >
> > I live in Rocky Mount with I95 on one side and US 301 on the other. Both
> > major corridors for bees moving from down South to up North for pollination.
> > There are also bees from Fla. used for pollination in the area all around
> > me. It should be noticed that the beetle was found in one hive that was
> > always in my back yard and the other one, we are not sure of but suspect it
> > had a frame moved to it from the other infected hive. No beetles were found
> > in any other of the 15 hives. No larva or damage was found. I have been told
> > to treat all hives and spray the ground around them. Seems like I any have
> > the adults and may have caught them before they reproduced. I'm not sure I
> > believe that though.
> > Good luck with yours
> > Don
> > Thom Bradley  wrote in message
> > news:3836A291.27350117@visi.net...
> > > Don,
> > > What town are your beetles in? I watch for beetle announcements as I
> > > have a number of hives and do pollination work in NC.
> > > Thom Bradley
> > > Chesapeake, VA and Tyner, NC
> > >
> > > workerbee wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Would someone please direct me to a site that gives instructions for
> > using
> > > > the shop towel method of using menthol in the hive. I will start
> > treating
> > > > for the small hive beetle next week when the medicine arrives. The
> > inspector
> > > > went through 26 hives today in four locations. We found beetles in two
> > hives
> > > > only and they are in my back yard. Needless to say, I'm quarrented for a
> > > > while Not funny.
> > > > Don in NC




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From: workerbee 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Still looking
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:50:56 -0500
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I'm still looking for instructions to melt menthol and Crisco and apply
it to the hives on shop towels.

Thanks,
Don in NC




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From: "Ruary Rudd" <@tinet.ie>
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Contact required Beekeepers in California
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:41:34 -0000
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Hi there,

A friend of mine is visiting California in December and would like to meet
fellow bee keepers, specifically in the San Franciso Area and also the San
Diego / Carlsbad areas. I you are interested in meeting him please e-mail me
direct giving your address and phone number so that he may contact you.
he is an experienced bee-keeper at the hobbyist level running 10 hives.

Ruary Rudd rrudd@eircom.net




Article 22174 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Re: Old English Brown Bee
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:04:19 GMT
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In article <19991107183315.08811.00000204@ngol01.aol.com>,
  jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) wrote:
>  "Mary Fisher"  writes:
>
> >Who recorded that loss, of the whole race?
> >
>
> Brother Adam in "In Search of The Best Strains of Bees"
>
> I heard about it also from another source.
>
> Al
OK, Lets have a think about this. One or two people one of whom was a
monk who was somewhat limited in his movements given his vocation
decided that the British please note British Black bee was defunct. All
the bees died of acarine? Really. I remember an august member of BIBBA
comming to Scotland and being astonnished at the wing readings from the
samples presented. This given that he had lectured on the probability
of the northerly bee having these attributes. The native bee is alive
and well, it has a small brood nest compared to the world norm, but
does well in the Scottish climate. Beware of quoting other authors
without evidence.
Beeman.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


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workerbee  wrote:

>I'm still looking for instructions to melt menthol and Crisco and apply
>it to the hives on shop towels.

>Thanks,
>Don in NC

I mix the crisco with granulated sugar (1:1 by wt.) and let
it whip up till it's light and fluffy.  I have a HD
kitchenaid mixer.  Then I melt the mentol (1 oz.) in the
microwave in a pyrex measuring cup with a suranwrap cover.
The liquid is then mixed in.  The frosting is then put in 5
gal. buckets to be transported.  I use the select-a-size
paper towels and put a good spoonful on one piece and fold
it over and squash it.  The stuff tastes pretty good.  


Greg the beekeep



       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



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>I'm still looking for instructions to melt menthol and Crisco and apply
>it to the hives on shop towels.
>
>Thanks,
>Don in NC
>

Why would you want to do this? If you're treating for tracheal mites the best
way to appply menthol is in a small paper bag and place it between the first
and second brood boxes . I've seen menthol last for more than five months this
way.
Or are you treating for something else?
Robert Williamson
Southeast Texas Honey Co.
P.O. Box 176
Vidor, Tx. 77670
" A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince"


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>I mix the crisco with granulated sugar (1:1 by wt.) and let
>it whip up till it's light and fluffy.  I have a HD
>kitchenaid mixer.  Then I melt the mentol (1 oz.) in the
>microwave in a pyrex measuring cup with a suranwrap cover.
>The liquid is then mixed in.  The frosting is then put in 5
>gal. buckets to be transported.  I use the select-a-size
>paper towels and put a good spoonful on one piece and fold
>it over and squash it.  The stuff tastes pretty good.  
>
>
>Greg the beekee

WOAHHHHHHHHHHH

DONT EAT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pure menthol crystals will kill yo ass , specially if ya eat it !!!

Blu shop towels don from walmart
a full size coffee can
heat a 2 lb can a crisco in the coffee can,
add 1 lb of menthol crystals, when melted remove from camp stove ( do this
OUTSIDE ) cut the shop towel roll in half ( ends up being bout the size of a tp
roll )
drop the roll into the mixture, using a couple a forks, turn it over.
let it cool enough to put the plastic lid back on the coffee can, instant
storage and etc...

the bitch of it is that you'll need to replace the sheet of shop towel in the
hive about every 5 days to get the same 28 day strength of the menthol. The
good pt is that it works out much cheaper this way, Course the formic acid gell
packs will probably be the best, but i haven't heard a price yet.


Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC



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>but am now left with a super full of honey. Is
>there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor
>which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small
>amount?

The only other way I know of is to cut out the comb and wring it out with some
fine mesh cloth (t-shirt will work) The only problem is you must replace the
foundation.
Robert Williamson
Southeast Texas Honey Co.
P.O. Box 176
Vidor, Tx. 77670
" A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince"


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We only used the ointment the first 2 weeks after that it is not needed

--
Ray & CC  Anthony
http://www.netex.quik.com/hopewell/
hopewell@netex.quik.com





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You might want to read the article on this in the ABJ Feb 97 issue on pg 138.
This method works great.


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Conrad wrote:

>  Is
> there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor
> which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small
> amount?

 Perhaps you could find a beekeeper in your area that has the extraction
equipment and ask if they would allow you to extract that super of honey.
What of the late proprieter of the colonies? How did he extract his?

--
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */



--------------E4461F3B2623C2C197BF5069
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Conrad wrote:

 Is

there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor

which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small

amount?

 Perhaps you could find a beekeeper in your area that has the extraction
equipment and ask if they would allow you to extract that super of honey.
What of the late proprieter of the colonies? How did he extract his?

-- 
Billy Y. Smart II
/* If the opinions expressed herein reflect those of the  */
/*  Boeing Company, it would be entirely coincidental.    */    
/*   Remove the "NOSPAM" from the address to reply        */

 

--------------E4461F3B2623C2C197BF5069--



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In article <383A9707.A2F80C72@nospam.boeing.com>, "Billy Y. Smart II"
 writes:

>>  Is
>> there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor
>> which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small
>> amount?
>
> Perhaps you could find a beekeeper in your area that has the extraction
>equipment and ask if they would allow you to extract that super of honey.
>What of the late proprieter of the colonies? How did he extract his?
>

For one or two hives, cut comb honey is hard to beat.  And if someone insists,
you can mash it and strain it....nylon hose makes a good strainer.


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From: "Ernie Scofield" 
Subject: Re: Honey preparation without extractor - Newbie question.
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If you leave the top 2 or three lines of cells at the top, it has been my
experience the bees will build the comb back next year. I use this method
to produce some comb honey to include in " Chunk Packed " extracted honey.
-- 
Ernie Scofield
Virginia Beach, Virginia USA

> The only other way I know of is to cut out the comb and wring it out with
some
> fine mesh cloth (t-shirt will work) The only problem is you must replace
the
> foundation.



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hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) wrote:

>>I mix the crisco with granulated sugar (1:1 by wt.) and let
>>it whip up till it's light and fluffy.  I have a HD
>>kitchenaid mixer.  Then I melt the mentol (1 oz.) in the
>>microwave in a pyrex measuring cup with a suranwrap cover.
>>The liquid is then mixed in.  The frosting is then put in 5
>>gal. buckets to be transported.  I use the select-a-size
>>paper towels and put a good spoonful on one piece and fold
>>it over and squash it.  The stuff tastes pretty good.  
>>
>>
>>Greg the beekee

>WOAHHHHHHHHHHH

>DONT EAT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>Pure menthol crystals will kill yo ass , specially if ya eat it !!!

I doubt that you could eat pure mentol as it would burn the
hell out of you.  I was refering to the final mixture  which
is like peppermint.

>Blu shop towels don from walmart
>a full size coffee can
>heat a 2 lb can a crisco in the coffee can,
>add 1 lb of menthol crystals, when melted remove from camp stove ( do this
>OUTSIDE ) cut the shop towel roll in half ( ends up being bout the size of a tp
>roll )
>drop the roll into the mixture, using a couple a forks, turn it over.
>let it cool enough to put the plastic lid back on the coffee can, instant
>storage and etc...

>the bitch of it is that you'll need to replace the sheet of shop towel in the
>hive about every 5 days to get the same 28 day strength of the menthol. The
>good pt is that it works out much cheaper this way, Course the formic acid gell
>packs will probably be the best, but i haven't heard a price yet.

That's the advantage of the patties - they last for quite a
while.  The bees slowly remove the paper and get the grease
on them which helps confuse the T. mites.  My mite loses
have been minimal using the patties.  Of coarse I think the
bees have become more tolerant of them to over the years.

>Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC

I take it you haven't seen a hive of bees after the formic
acid gell packs have been in place.  All the experimental
ones that I have seen in Beltsville looked weaker than hell.
It will be interesting when they start to be used.  I think
1 week useage to help control T. mites might be all they are
used for.

Greg the beekeep




       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



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Charles "Stretch" Ledford councils about Texas:

>Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions
> it carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. 

Texas laws have always been draconian.

A brief history: It should be noted that while the Alamo and San Jacinto
are battles that now are historically revised to say they were battles
for independence, they were in fact battles against Santa Anna, who had
illegally taken over the government of Mexico of whom Stephen F. Austin
had negotiated his original charter.  (i.e. to start his settlement) In
other words, it was a Mexican civil war, with Texas being one of the
rebellious states of Mexico.

Those Mexican states not in agreement with the Santa Anna, regime, got a
visit from him and his army.

It so happened that Texas was one of those rebellious Mexican states.  

When Santa Anna came to Texas, he won two battles and lost one. That
doesn't sound too bad, but the one he lost was the important one, with
himself being captured. Sam Houston and his anglo mexican army, quick to
see an opportunity, used the outcome of this battle to declare
independence from Mexico, since there was no one in Mexico left to
oppose them, and created the Republic of Texas.

After Texas declared itself a Republic and until 1845 there was constant
fighting and bickering with the Mexicans that were trying to hold on to
their Spanish land grants, and considered the Texas Republic illegal.
Then there was always unpleasantness with the Indians out west, which
then meant about 40 miles west of Austin. 

In 1845 the Mexicans had something else to worry about;  The U.S. Army
attacked them in a kind of new variation on manifest destiny revisited.
The settlement of that war decided the boundaries we have now.

The point of saying this is, after 1836 there were the anglos who were
running things, their black slaves, the mexicans who were now second
class citizens, and the indians who were considered vermin.  This uneasy
situation was not exactly a very promising start to the new nation.

(it did however, hold the ingredients for some great music, in the
future.)

Consequently, there was a lot of injustice, a lot of small wars, a lot
of repression and hard feelings. Another thing in my opinion, the land
was a factor too, it was very beautiful and rugged and there was an
awful lot of it.   

After 1870 the Indian "problem" was eliminated 

(the Texas legislature actually tried to enact a law protecting the
Buffalo on the Texas prairies from extinction, but General Sheridan, of
Civil War fame, came to Texas on a special trip to argue in front of the
legislature in Austin, saying: "destroying the Indians' commissary; and
it is a well-known fact that an army losing its base of supplies is
placed at a great disadvantage.... Send them (hunters) powder and lead,
if you will, but for the sake of a lasting peace, let them kill, skin,
and sell until the buffaloes are exterminated.  Then your prairies can
be covered with speckled cattle, and the festive cowboy, who follows the
hunter as a second forerunner of advanced civilization"  consequently,
the bill to protect the buffalo did not pass; the buffalo was
exterminated and the Indians. By 1870. we had cows, barbed wire fences,
and the festive cowboy.

Before oil was discovered there were "land barons" who acted like
royalty and expected to be treated like it too.  They basically ran the
local governments and had a lot of influence at the state level. It was
just a few people sitting on all that space.  98% of all Texas land is
privately owned; this means that trespassing laws are excessively
enforced, and penalties severe. 

The consequence of those beginnings in a place that has a frontier
mentality is, you have a lot of crimes committed by a special home grown
criminal.  I for one have always admired Texas outlaws over the other
kinds of texans, like cowboys, oilmen, businessmen, judges, preachers,
and politicians.

To be an outlaw and survive at least a while, in Texas, you have to be
meaner and more ruthless than the legitimate order and that takes a lot
of cunning, and courage borne of a culture of basically being on your
own, and understanding your worth is only in terms of money. 

In 1966 a moratorium began on the death penalty in the U.S. that was
essentially "clarified" by a more conservative U.S. Supreme Court, by
1977, when executions resumed. Texas which held it's capital murder
criminals on death row for years, awaiting this decision,  began in
earnest to clear out the cells after 1977.  At least you can say this
about Texas death row inmates:  they're not tortured like in
Pennsylvania, or strung out in chain gangs on the road, like in Alabama.

The death penalty in Texas has always been there.  In fact, death as
such, doesn't cause the outrage of the general public like say writing a
large hot cheque, and skipping town.  People here just think: you were a
kid like everyone else, but something went wrong, or you were either
born bad and started getting in trouble at an early age, or you were
unlucky and became brutalized by the culture, or maybe your Grandmother,
or you raised a calf as a pet and had to see it slaughtered, and one day
you twisted off and murdered that kindly preacher and raped his wife, so
now you're sorry, and maybe you've even come to the lord, but you're
still going to die, and the preacher's family is coming to Huntsville to
watch you die. This kind of thing happens all the time, doesn't shock
anyone, nor does it decrease the supply of capital crimes.

The only thing you can say about the death penalty, is that sooner or
later they will kill "the wrong man," like that guy in Dallas accused of
killing a cop, but didn't; but the state executed him anyway.

Imagine what it feels like to go through that process and know you
didn't do it. ("I didn't do it") You can't even avail yourself of the
religious services that offer forgiveness if you only admit you did.
"But Reverend, I'm innocent; well son, that ain't what the state said."
So, it comes to this, if you can call yourself a Christian and live with
that standard, then you're ready to live in Texas and vote for George W.
Bush.

Chad Howell said about George:

>> An eye for an eye. George Bush rules!!!!! Besides it's better than what 

Humm an Old Testament man, must be Jewish.

Jesus tried to improve on a few things missing from the Old Testament
which was your basic history of tribal warfare.  He tried to get people
to understand the concept of forgiveness, to turn the other cheek, as it
were.

Jesus would be wasting his time with the conservative right:

Nationalistic:  amend the Constitution to prevent the burning of the
flag, have christian prayers in public schools, make abortions illegal
(like before) oppress immigrant workers and minorities, wreck the 1st
amendment of the U.S. Constitution and create a police state. (the
police are already armed like the Marines.)

Bloodthirsty: appropriating wartime levels of tax dollars to the
military and refusing to ratify the nuclear test ban treaty, a global
embarrassment.

Greedy:  removing meager handouts to poor families with "welfare reform"
and bills introduced in Congress to extend tax breaks to the rich, $700
billion most recently; the bill was actually vetoed by Bill Clinton,
which just goes to show, he can do something after all.

Anti Environmental: find me one of them in the 106th. Congress that has
voted for the environment on any related bill during their tenure in
Washington, and I'll show you a politician that isn't getting large
amounts of money from the big polluters or corporations that want to get
their hands on cheap federal land resources. Just name one, bet you
can't. 


Charles "Stretch" Ledford said:
 
>Ahhh... that's the problem with these off topic threads... ya just dunno
>WHERE they'll lead...

>Don't get me started about Dubya...

The Texas of today has a lot of laws to break and a lot of frustrated
people to break them.  Texas now is run by the conservative right who's
leader is the governor, George W. Bush who says he's a man for all the
people. Enough Mexican Americans in south Texas even believed that, or
maybe they were just wannabe Anglos, but they were instrumental in
getting George re-elected, while actually voting against a candidate
that was a real Texan, (just like them) not an out of state opportunist,
like the Bush family.

George's latest television slots in New Hampshire, have been inviting
all to believe he's a compassionate conservative; a term that is an
oxymoron.

Under George's leadership, of the compassionate conservatives running
the State of Texas, they're record of compassion, is singularly non
existent. Nonetheless, this new phrase exist to hide the big lie, which
is: they and he have no compassion and their record says as much.  For
the sake of brevity, I will spare you the record here, but if you're
interested let me know. 

C.K.

-
Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.

Friedrich Nietzsche



Article 22186 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "Normand" 
Subject: Re: Honey preparation without extractor - Newbie question.
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
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Hi!
you could keep the super in case they need it in the spring
but to answer your question you can uncap the comb and hang them 
upside down. with patience the honey will drip out and you will keep
your frames drawn.

Normand
Conrad  wrote in article
...
> Hi
> 
> I am a newcomer both to this n/g and bee-keeping. I have acquired a
> couple of hives from a neighbour whose bee-keeping husband has recently
> died, one of which is occupied. Hopefully I have prepared the hive and
> colony for the winter but am now left with a super full of honey. Is
> there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial extractor
> which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a small
> amount?
> 
> I would be grateful for any advice on this.
> 
> Thanks
> -- 
> Conrad
> 


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From: "Normand" 
Subject: Cosmetic beeswax products
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Hi ! 
I am interested in using my beeswax so, 
could somebody give me internet sites or addresses on 
how to make cosmetics?
I've read this newsgroup for a few weeks now and I'm glad I have this
internet gadget
Thanks ahead Normand


Article 22188 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Re: Old English Brown Bee
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beeman  writes:

>One or two people one of whom was a
>monk who was somewhat limited in his movements given his vocation
>decided that the British please note British Black bee was defunct.

You must be kidding.
Brother Adam travelled the world in search of better bee strains. He probably
had quite a network of beekeepers as well given his accomplishments. I think it
is unfair to characterize him as you have.

Could you clarify what you are saying about the member from whatever and the
British Black Bee and native bee. Is the Old English Brown Bee used for
beekeeping in Scotland.  
Al


Article 22189 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Still looking
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:00:43 -0500
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I'm still waiting on the formic acid. The bees will be dead before they(who
are they?) get off their ass and figure out how to ship it.
Don
Hk1BeeMan  wrote in message
news:19991122193654.10771.00001240@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> >I mix the crisco with granulated sugar (1:1 by wt.) and let
> >it whip up till it's light and fluffy.  I have a HD
> >kitchenaid mixer.  Then I melt the mentol (1 oz.) in the
> >microwave in a pyrex measuring cup with a suranwrap cover.
> >The liquid is then mixed in.  The frosting is then put in 5
> >gal. buckets to be transported.  I use the select-a-size
> >paper towels and put a good spoonful on one piece and fold
> >it over and squash it.  The stuff tastes pretty good.
> >
> >
> >Greg the beekee
>
> WOAHHHHHHHHHHH
>
> DONT EAT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Pure menthol crystals will kill yo ass , specially if ya eat it !!!
>
> Blu shop towels don from walmart
> a full size coffee can
> heat a 2 lb can a crisco in the coffee can,
> add 1 lb of menthol crystals, when melted remove from camp stove ( do this
> OUTSIDE ) cut the shop towel roll in half ( ends up being bout the size of
a tp
> roll )
> drop the roll into the mixture, using a couple a forks, turn it over.
> let it cool enough to put the plastic lid back on the coffee can, instant
> storage and etc...
>
> the bitch of it is that you'll need to replace the sheet of shop towel in
the
> hive about every 5 days to get the same 28 day strength of the menthol.
The
> good pt is that it works out much cheaper this way, Course the formic acid
gell
> packs will probably be the best, but i haven't heard a price yet.
>
>
> Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC
>





Article 22190 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Still looking
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:02:52 -0500
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I waited too long to treat with crystals, waiting on formic acid. This
method puts the menthol to work nor and you can treat double the hives this
way.
Don
Robert Williamson  wrote in message
news:19991122192950.12669.00000935@ng-fw1.news.cs.com...
> >I'm still looking for instructions to melt menthol and Crisco and apply
> >it to the hives on shop towels.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Don in NC
> >
>
> Why would you want to do this? If you're treating for tracheal mites the
best
> way to appply menthol is in a small paper bag and place it between the
first
> and second brood boxes . I've seen menthol last for more than five months
this
> way.
> Or are you treating for something else?
> Robert Williamson
> Southeast Texas Honey Co.
> P.O. Box 176
> Vidor, Tx. 77670
> " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any
prince"





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Subject: Menthol
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:04:55 -0500
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Thanks for all the replies for making the menthol mixture. It will go on
with the new stuff to treat the beetles with, later this week.

Don in NC





Article 22192 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "workerbee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Insectide free honey
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:13:05 -0500
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Someone posted a web site for someone in Asheville wanting natural honey. I
have some and want to find out how much they pay just for kicks. I had to
remove bees from a hollow log in my back yard this week that I had picked up
a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to wait until spring but the arrival of the
beetle necessitated they be removed for inspection. They have no signs of
disease or beetles or PMS but are meaner than devil ladies. Should have
killed them I guess, but they will make it and I'll requeen in the spring.
Don in NC





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Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Insectide free honey
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I believe the person that wanted wild or natural honey did not want the queen
replaced but i guess allowed to live out her natural life. I was trying to find
out why this would contribute to the quality of the honey or the hive.
The worker bee lives about 6 weeks and the queen can live 4 years. To  worker
bee  the queen must seem to be immortal. 
Al


Article 22194 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:27:19 -0500
From: Bill Truesdell 
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May have already been said on this thread, but insecticide free honey does
not depend on the beekeeper but on the bees and where they forage. They can
bring it back to the hive so you can have insecticide in hives- albeit in
parts per million- even if the beekeeper never treats. Plus bees bring back
lots of stuff. Many good articles on using bees to trace what is in an area
by what they bring back to the hive, including explosive residue. 
And if you are an organic grower and treat with several approved orgainic
pesticides, you could have them in your hive also. I believe one uses the
same ingredient as Apistan.
Bill T
-- 
If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly.


Article 22195 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: mreddy@glam.ac.uk (Mike Reddy)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: The movie "Ever After"
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>They did have the skep right- It had a removeable eke style lid, and the =
>comb inside was arranged correctly.  Just no bees protesting the comb =
>removal.

Not seen the film, but if it is set in Mediaeval times, there were no eke
lids. Skeps were whole and sometimes extended with a ring - called an eke,
as in "eke it out" or make it last longer - I think you are confusing the
term with nadir which was a skep with a hole in the top that was used in
the 18-19th centuries. This was about the time that a super (i.e. a skep
on the top) started as well.

So, they did not have the skep right from the description given.

>    It was refreshing to see that the bees weren't being made out to be =
>mean, etc. It wasis a very sweet (Fairy tale) portrayal of beekeeping =
>and harvesting honey.

I agree that it is nice that bees are not always portrayed as agressive.
However, the 'sweetness' of the harvesting method does not concur with the
reality, which was drowning the whole skep or poisoning the bees (and
sometimes the honey!) with sulphur smoke! this would have been done at the
end of the summer for the heaviest and lightest skeps (determined by
hefting); the lightest would not survive the winter, the heaviest gave the
best profit. The middle-weight skeps would be left to swarm the following
year.

Mike

-- 
Web: http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/
Snail: J228, School of Computing, University of Glamorgan, 
Pontypridd, Mid Glamorgan. CF37 1DL Wales, UK.
TEL: +44 (0)1443 482 240 Fax: +44 (0)1443 482 715


Article 22196 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Re: Cosmetic beeswax products
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From: "Normand" ngravel@direct.ca 

>I am interested in using my beeswax so, 
>could somebody give me internet sites or addresses on 
>how to make cosmetics?

Try Elaine White's website:
http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/formulas.html


Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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From: "misterguch" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Stings
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:27:37 -0500
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Hi,

How many stings would it take for a reasonably healthy man to die?  Figure
his weight is about 180 lbs.

I'm just kind of curious because I saw that Guinness book of world records
show on TV where the guy put a hundred bees in his mouth, and was wondering
if that would kill him if they all started stinging.

Thanks.




Article 22198 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: John Caldeira 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Lanolin & Carnauba Wax
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:26:52 -0600
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Where can pure lanolin and/or carnauba wax be purchased?  Many beeswax
recipes for furniture polish and skin care products list them as
ingredients, but I was not successful finding a good dealer with a
straight-forward WWW search.

North american dealers preferred, but any contacts would be
appreciated.  Any beeswax skin care or polish makers here?

Thanks!
John 

John Caldeira
Dallas, Texas      
http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/



Article 22199 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: Thom Bradley 
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Probably drones-no stingers.

Thom Bradley

http://groups.hamptonrods.com/beekeepers

misterguch wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> How many stings would it take for a reasonably healthy man to die?  Figure
> his weight is about 180 lbs.
> 
> I'm just kind of curious because I saw that Guinness book of world records
> show on TV where the guy put a hundred bees in his mouth, and was wondering
> if that would kill him if they all started stinging.
> 
> Thanks.


Article 22200 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
From: "Midnitebee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: bee books/stamps
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:03:44 -0500
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Greetings!
We have created a web site that pertains to buying/selling rare Bee Books
and stamps.
URL:http://www.delphi.com/BeebooksStamps/start/
We have several books which will bee added when time permits. The listings
are FREE and please note that this is NOT a site for buying selling bee
equipment. Any messages that do not pertain to bee books or bee stamps will
bee removed.
Herb/Norma
Holly-B Apiary
P.O. Box 26
Wells,Maine 04090-0026
http://www.delphi.com/BeebooksStamps/start/
http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee
"an educated consumer is YOUR best customer"

Herb/Norma
Holly-B Apiary
P.O. Box 26
Wells,Maine 04090-0026
http://www.delphi.com/BeebooksStamps/start/
http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee
"an educated consumer is YOUR best customer"





Article 22201 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: harrisonrw@aol.com (HarrisonRW)
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Subject: Re: Stings
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>How many stings would it take for a reasonably healthy man to die?

I remember reading somewhere that it would take in excess of 800 bee stings to
kill a healthy 165 lb. male.

Regards,
Ralph


Article 22202 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Re: Cosmetic beeswax products
From: "Charlie Kroeger" 
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Normand try this:

2 oz. cappings beeswax

8.5 oz. bottle of cold pressed avocado oil

3 gelatin capsules of 400 mg. Vit E oil

5 cc propolis tincture 1:2 mixture (standard mix)

1 (5cc) level tsp of your best honey

Melt the wax in a bottle you don't need to keep, like a mayonnaise jar, in
the oven at 200F(93C) until the wax is liquid.  When the wax cools to 140F
(60C) add the avocado oil and continue to maintain 140F until both oil and
wax are a clear liquid that can be mechanically mixed together without
introducing air bubbles.

When this liquid drops to 130F add the vit.E (squeeze the oil out of the
capsules, that is, don't add the gelatin capsules), honey, and propolis
ingredients.  Continue to stir mechanically until temp of liquid drops to
120F.  Pour into vessels diverse and wonderful and allow to stand until
cool.

What you will have is a beautiful ivory coloured delicately scented (from
the honey) "cakes" that are firm to the touch. There's a reason for this:
When the "cream" is firm it keeps out air and prevents the natural oils from
going rancid.  A mix like this can keep for a year in a coolish place.

It is preferable to use small shallow containers (glass or steel, I use the
small gerber baby bottles to good effect) that can be carried with you.
(those will need a top, and beware a top that does not seal in hot weather
or your coach bag will have a conspicuous spot) A small amount on the end of
your finger can be used as a lip balm. For larger quantities, break up and
smooth what you need in the palm of your hand until creamy. It is effective
in harsh conditions of heat and cold which both have the characteristic of
being dry.  The above mixture is also soothing to areas already damaged by
sun or wind burn.

I've used this mixture for some years and occasionally fiddle with the
ingredients when it suits me, but the above list is a pretty good standard
to go with for a safe and effective skin cream.

C.K.


Article 22203 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "Ellen Anglin" 
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Subject: Re: The movie "Ever After"
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    Hey, I am evaluating this as a fairy tale-I won't begin to go into the
inaccuracies in costume, props, etc.. (Chocolate as one example....)
As a medieval re-enactor I am pretty resigned to Hollywood messing up the
details of any vaguely historic film, so I am pleased when they get anything
right.
(I am so tired of seeing liquid honey dispensed by tap or scoop directly
from a hive or nest)
    I have seen pictures of a basketry ring placed on top of a round open
topped skep- they were Identified as eke's and the picture also showed them
placed below a dome type skep.  Is the proper term for a top extension a
nadir?

    I do have a photocopy of a 17 th century beekeeping book that talk of
driving the bees into a new skep rather than killing them- but I gather that
this was rather innovative thinking for the time...
    Can you recommend any books on skep beekeeping that are currently
available?  The old volumes I have seen have been beyond my price range....

Ellen


Mike Reddy  wrote in message
news:mreddy-2411991136460001@mreddy.comp.glam.ac.uk...
> >They did have the skep right- It had a removeable eke style lid, and the
=
> >comb inside was arranged correctly.  Just no bees protesting the comb =
> >removal.
>
> Not seen the film, but if it is set in Mediaeval times, there were no eke
> lids. Skeps were whole and sometimes extended with a ring - called an eke,
> as in "eke it out" or make it last longer - I think you are confusing the
> term with nadir which was a skep with a hole in the top that was used in
> the 18-19th centuries. This was about the time that a super (i.e. a skep
> on the top) started as well.
>
> So, they did not have the skep right from the description given.
>
> >    It was refreshing to see that the bees weren't being made out to be =
> >mean, etc. It wasis a very sweet (Fairy tale) portrayal of beekeeping =
> >and harvesting honey.
>
> I agree that it is nice that bees are not always portrayed as agressive.
> However, the 'sweetness' of the harvesting method does not concur with the
> reality, which was drowning the whole skep or poisoning the bees (and
> sometimes the honey!) with sulphur smoke! this would have been done at the
> end of the summer for the heaviest and lightest skeps (determined by
> hefting); the lightest would not survive the winter, the heaviest gave the
> best profit. The middle-weight skeps would be left to swarm the following
> year.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Web: http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/
> Snail: J228, School of Computing, University of Glamorgan,
> Pontypridd, Mid Glamorgan. CF37 1DL Wales, UK.
> TEL: +44 (0)1443 482 240 Fax: +44 (0)1443 482 715




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From: "Ellen Anglin" 
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The problem is, in the mouth and throat, only a few of stings could cause
enough swelling to cause breathing problems.
Dangerous stunt if he was using workers.
Ellen

misterguch  wrote in message
news:81hr1p$j6n$1@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> Hi,
>
> How many stings would it take for a reasonably healthy man to die?  Figure
> his weight is about 180 lbs.
>
> I'm just kind of curious because I saw that Guinness book of world records
> show on TV where the guy put a hundred bees in his mouth, and was
wondering
> if that would kill him if they all started stinging.
>
> Thanks.
>
>




Article 22205 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "John O'Brien" 
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Ellen Anglin  wrote in message
> The problem is, in the mouth and throat, only a few of stings could
cause
> enough swelling to cause breathing problems.

"Could" is the key word here.  Sure it could, but remember that
once one of them stings, then that mouth is going to open up
real fast the the other 99 are going to come shooting out
real fast.

> > I'm just kind of curious because I saw that Guinness book of world
records
> > show on TV where the guy put a hundred bees in his mouth, and was
> wondering if that would kill him if they all started stinging.
> >
As radical as I am about getting stings, I don't think I'd want to
be putting them in my mouth.  But then I've done it most every
where else.  Who knows?
John




Article 22206 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "John O'Brien" 
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References: 
Subject: Re: Lanolin & Carnauba Wax
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John Caldeira  wrote in message
> Where can pure lanolin and/or carnauba wax be purchased

Pure lanolin is a bit hard to get, especially in small quantities.
I did manage to get 2 kg from a friend in Romania but it
cost me about $80.  Try Australia; I found a few links to
sources there; but again, they want to sell in quantity.

John




Article 22207 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth)
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I think the guy with the bees in his mouth was a scientist (expert in
beehaviour) and the bees were trained to think of his mouth as a nectar source.
This may have lessened the risk. The bees were workers. I saw the segment on
tv.

In answering how many bee stings to kill a healthy human the safest answer
would be 1 to 200 ( i thought it was 200). Is somebody with allergies
considered to be unhealthy? Also as said before a sting in the back of the
mouth could be fatal. From what i understand multiple stinging (in the 100's)
in beekeeping might happen if a disastrous event takes place like tipping over
a hive,  

Al


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From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: HAPPY THANKSGIVING
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:23:37 -0600
Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY
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Thank you all for the wealth of information you've shared with your
insightful answers, thoughtful observations, and pertinent questions this
year.  I'm a better beekeeper because of you; my bees are happier, too! 
;)

Now if I can just get 'em to try that little piece of Turkey I put on the
landing board...

Peace-

-- 
Charles "Stretch" Ledford
STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY
"North America and the Entire World"
http://www.GoStretch.com


Article 22209 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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I  Ditto that Charles...
Thank you to for all the great reading, my bee's say: Thank you in there own
special way

Thanks
Happy Turkey Day!
Don.


Charles "Stretch" Ledford wrote in message ...
>Thank you all for the wealth of information you've shared with your
>insightful answers, thoughtful observations, and pertinent questions this
>year.  I'm a better beekeeper because of you; my bees are happier, too!
>;)
>
>Now if I can just get 'em to try that little piece of Turkey I put on the
>landing board...
>
>Peace-
>
>--
>Charles "Stretch" Ledford
>STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY
>"North America and the Entire World"
>http://www.GoStretch.com




Article 22210 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: beetools@aol.com (Beetools)
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Subject: Re: Stings
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The man you saw on TV was Dr. Norman Gary, a VERY experienced apiculturalist
who headed up the UC Davis research lab. He did get stung (in the lip) on the
first try and had to work very quickly on the second attemtp (the one you saw)
because his lip was swelling up. 

It would only take a few stings in the mouth to put your life in danger. This
"stunt" is not something that should be attempted by even an experienced
beekeeper. Dr. Gary (now retired from UC Davis) is the leading "bug wrangler"
in Hollywood and most of the insect "stunts" you see on TV and film are his
work. It takes years to learn how to train insects to respone and the training
of the bees and the technique he used for the record stunt is not for the
inexperienced.

Ron Bennett
Luckiamute Bee 


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 Ron writes:

>The man you saw on TV was Dr. Norman Gary, a VERY experienced apiculturalist
>who headed up the UC Davis research lab.

I am sure when Dr. Gary did the stunt he had another type of Doctor on standby
ready to do a trachonotomy (sp) if things went wrong.

What about the next guy who tries to beak his record.

Al


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From: "Michael Shealy" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Honey preparation without extractor - Newbie question.
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Hi Conrad,

You might find a local beekeeper or beekeeping group, who would
extract your honey super for you for a small fee.  This method allows
continued use and most of the wax drawn out is still useable by the
bees next year.

You could heat a knife and cut the capping wax off, then (if you don't
care about the comb for next year hive(s)), crush the combs in a warm
room (85-90 degrees F) into a metal strainer and or a cheesecloth to
strain the honey, destroying the built-up comb and foundation (not
that good a method).

For next year, if you haven't gotten your neighbors extractor from the
surviving wife, there are small extractor plans available for DIY from
a galvanized trash can and materials that are readily available, as an
example.  Go to the library and find some books on "hobbyist
beekeeping".  There are many good designs, as well as inexpensive
small extractors available on the market.  Find a beekeepers supply in
your area, you'll need it.  Also, he/she might extract your super for
a fee.

Good luck,
Mikey


Conrad  wrote in message
news:nrxL0DAELEO4EwP+@ceebees.demon.co.uk...
> Hi
>
> I am a newcomer both to this n/g and bee-keeping. I have acquired a
> couple of hives from a neighbour whose bee-keeping husband has
recently
> died, one of which is occupied. Hopefully I have prepared the hive
and
> colony for the winter but am now left with a super full of honey. Is
> there a way to extract this without the use of a commercial
extractor
> which is hardly practical to buy or hire at this time for such a
small
> amount?
>
> I would be grateful for any advice on this.
>
> Thanks
> --
> Conrad



Article 22213 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "STIG HANSSON" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
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Subject: SV: mites control
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Dennis!
Don't put in more Apistan strips!!! If the mites have survived the first
time they are maybe resistant to it. For a successful treatment with Apistan
the bees must bee relatively active too.
Try one of our methods from Sweden (not if temp. is below +5 degr. Celsius):
Mix lactic acid to the concentration of 15%. Spray directly on bees with a
flower sprayer 5 - 8 millilitres on each frame sidefull of bees. Not on open
brood!!! Remember to put acid carefully into water when you prepare it. Use
glasses and gloves to protect yourself.
Good luck!!
Doris from Gotland

Dennis Crutchfield  skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:8198l1$7ib$1@einstein.greenhills.net...
> I have a question for some of you, I have treated for mites with my
apistan
> strips. Today I went out to inspect them. And noticed some of the bees are
> wingless and are full of mites again. I treated them in july. Cold weather
> is going to start in 3or 4 days. These are new hives, taken from swarms.
> Requeened this fall. I have went on and put in new strips. But this will
> make the strips come out in the middle of winter. I live in Missouri. Is
> there anyother thing I can do to kill the mites. Is there anyother thing
to
> try. I thought it worse to leave them till spring, so i put some more
strips
> in. This will mean they will come out in jan.
> any suggestions
> preacher
>
>




Article 22214 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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OOPS!!
I forgot: Put something on the bottom of the hive before you start so that
you can collect dead mite. Count dead varroamite after 3 days. If you have
more than 50 mite you should repeat treatment.
Good luck!
Doris from Gotland

Dennis Crutchfield  skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:8198l1$7ib$1@einstein.greenhills.net...
> I have a question for some of you, I have treated for mites with my
apistan
> strips. Today I went out to inspect them. And noticed some of the bees are
> wingless and are full of mites again. I treated them in july. Cold weather
> is going to start in 3or 4 days. These are new hives, taken from swarms.
> Requeened this fall. I have went on and put in new strips. But this will
> make the strips come out in the middle of winter. I live in Missouri. Is
> there anyother thing I can do to kill the mites. Is there anyother thing
to
> try. I thought it worse to leave them till spring, so i put some more
strips
> in. This will mean they will come out in jan.
> any suggestions
> preacher
>
>




Article 22215 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Honey preparation without extractor - Newbie question.
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:02:24 GMT
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"Michael Shealy"  wrote:

>Hi Conrad,

>You might find a local beekeeper or beekeeping group, who would
>extract your honey super for you for a small fee.  This method allows
>continued use and most of the wax drawn out is still useable by the
>bees next year.

>You could heat a knife and cut the capping wax off, then (if you don't
>care about the comb for next year hive(s)), crush the combs in a warm
>room (85-90 degrees F) into a metal strainer and or a cheesecloth to
>strain the honey, destroying the built-up comb and foundation (not
>that good a method).

>For next year, if you haven't gotten your neighbors extractor from the
>surviving wife, there are small extractor plans available for DIY from
>a galvanized trash can and materials that are readily available, as an
>example.  Go to the library and find some books on "hobbyist
>beekeeping".  There are many good designs, as well as inexpensive
>small extractors available on the market.  Find a beekeepers supply in
>your area, you'll need it.  Also, he/she might extract your super for
>a fee.

>Good luck,
>Mikey


And there's also the wifes washing machine used on the spin
cycle!  8>0


Greg the beekeep



       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



Article 22216 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: "Peter Edwards" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Honey production/acre (/ha)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:04:04 -0000
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None of these!

'Honey - a comprehensive survey' was published by the then Bee Research
Association (now IBRA) in 1975.  Copies are available second-hand.

Silviu-Alin Bacanu  wrote in message
news:3839859F.797EC27@msx.upmc.edu...
> Thanks Peter!
>
> I guess Eva Crane's book "Honey" is printed only in UK because here is
what I
> found at amazon, borders, etc
> (does any of them rings any bell as the book to give potential honey
yields) :
>
>                     Here are your search results for Author is Crane, Eva
>
>                     We found 5 matching titles.
>                     1 - 5 are displayed below in bestselling order.
>                     We also found 2 Out-of-Print and Used Titles
>
>                     Re-sort my search in: Bestselling,  A to Z,  Date
Published
> order.
>
>                       1.
>                           From Where I Sit: Essays on Bees, Beekeeping,
and
> Science
>                           In-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.
>                           Mark L. Winston,Foreword by Eva Crane /
Paperback /
> Date Published: March 1998
>                           Our Price: $29.95
>                             Buy this book or read more about it
>                       2.
>                           From Where I Sit: Essays on Bees, Beekeeping,
and
> Science
>                           In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days.
>                           Mark L. Winston,Foreword by Eva Crane /
Paperback /
> Date Published: March 1998
>                           Our Price: $14.95
>                             Buy this book or read more about it
>                       3.
>                           The Archaeology of Beekeeping
>                           In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days.
>                           Eva Crane,A. J. Graham (Translator) / Hardcover
/
> Date Published: January 1984
>                           Our Price: $55.00
>                             Buy this book or read more about it
>                       4.
>                           Bees and Beekeeping: Science Practice and World
> Resources
>                           In-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.
>                           Eva Crane / Hardcover / Date Published: May 1990
>                           Our Price: $120.00
>                             Buy this book or read more about it
>                       5.
>                           The World History of Beekeeping and Honey
Hunting
>                           Available: Ships 1-2 weeks.
>                           Eva Crane / Paperback / Date Published:
September
> 1999
>                           Our Price: $95.00
>                             Buy this book or read more about it
>
>
>
> Peter Edwards wrote:
>
> > Silviu-Alin Bacanu  wrote in message
> > news:38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu...
> > > Hi guys!
> > >
> > > Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or
> > > /ha) for different plants.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in responding.
> >
> > See Eva Crane's book, 'Honey', which gives potential yields for 200 top
bee
> > plants.
>




Article 22217 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Re: Stings
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misterguch  wrote in message
news:81hr1p$j6n$1@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> Hi,
>
> How many stings would it take for a reasonably healthy man to die?  Figure
> his weight is about 180 lbs.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Stings can kill in two ways:

Allergy - 1 sting may be enough
Poisoning by the venom - depends on the individuals tolerance - maybe 100,
maybe 500




Article 22218 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: John Caldeira 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Lanolin & Carnauba Wax
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:43:38 -0600
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Several responses I received by email may interest readers.  They are
sources for lanolin and/or carnauba wax:

http://www.the-sage.com/catalog/fixed_oils.html#lanolin  (nice online
catalog of oils)
http://www.ritacorp.com/gpl.htm  (wholesale)
http://www.beeequipment.com/index.htm  (carnauba wax)

Thanks to those who helped!

-John

John Caldeira
Dallas, Texas      
http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/



Article 22219 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
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I want to place beehives in two rows, and I want them facing the same direction
because they're on a slope that faces south.
How far apart do I want to make the rows to avoid excessive drifting between
the front row and the back?


Article 22220 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Here is a huge list of conversion information posted by the
International Research Organization. It would be a great site to
bookmark. 

http://www.internationalresearch.org


Article 22221 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Varroamite - Apistan or acids?
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Hi everybody!
I live in Sweden where many beekepers use different sorts of acids to
control mite. I'd like to know how beekepers around the world handle this
problem.
Doris from Gotland




Article 22222 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Subject: Good web resource about Beekeeping
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http://www.hubat.com/servlets/search?query=beekeeping&cat=9.1&db=hubat&cmd=s


* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!



Article 22223 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Insectide free honey
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Bill said: 


I keep my bees on organic farms. I get special dispensation from the farmers
for using Apistan. They're understanding because they've tried themselves to
keep bees without it, and of course, varroa got them.
I try to be low-key when I install the strips because the farms are near public
areas and trails, and I don't want to hurt the farmers' organic rep. by letting
alot of people see me install strips. 
I had a bad encounter with one guy. I tried to explain about the
nonnative-species-jumping-recently-introduced varroa, but the guy just would
not listen. "Poison is a threat to all life. You're just lazy and ignorant,"
seemed to be his line of thinking. He was a member of the farm collective and
complained to the farmer, who said, "Yeah, I know. Tough." Some people just
refuse to be educated, so it's best to avoid the topic altogether. Beekeepers
must develop relationships with the people they partner with, like farmers and
retailers, to do our best to take care of each other and the reputation of each
other's products.

Can anyone provide more information about:
1) What is an "organic pesticide"? That term sounds like an oxymoron
(contradicts itself). Do you mean bio controls?
2) What is the name of the pesticide Bill refers to above?


Article 22224 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping:
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From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Queen banking .. how?
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I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
try this spring.  

However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.

Can someone explain step - by - step how they do this?

TYIA

Dave




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JMitc1014 wrote:

> 
> Can anyone provide more information about:
> 1) What is an "organic pesticide"? That term sounds like an oxymoron
> (contradicts itself). Do you mean bio controls?
> 2) What is the name of the pesticide Bill refers to above?


An organic pesticide is one derived from naturally occurring
sources... usually plants.
Pyrethrin (from an African marigold) is one of the better known
organic pesticides, used widely against sucking pests such as aphids. 

Bear in mind that organics can be as or more toxic than chemical
pesticides. Arsenic, water hemlock, tobacco are all organic, but I
certainly don't care to have them in my food supply. :-)

Christy Hensler

-- 
Skip and Christy Hensler
THE ROCK GARDEN
Newport, Wash.
http://www.povn.com/rock


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From: "busybee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: honey in 4lb tins
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Jajwuth wrote in message <19991121110811.03694.00000354@ngol05.aol.com>...
>When did beekeepers sell honey in tins?
>I have two 4lb tins. They were sold to beekeepers who would stamp the name
of
>their apiary and honey type. One tin has a picture of a skep hive and the
other
>is more plain with recipies using honey on the back.
>Al

Ohhh...I almost missed this post!  I have a nice collection of honey tins
(maybe 25 or so)...mostly from local beekeepers from days gone by and they
(tins) are as recent as maybe the early 1960's.

During our honey open house in August, I had a display of a few of my
favorites (mainly my husbands' dad, grandfather and great-grandfathers
tins).  We had more people comment that they remember using those tins...not
just for honey but to carry their lunch to school!

--Busybee, who remembers being a wee tot, riding in the grocery store cart
and begging my mom to buy the comb honey that  was neatly displayed on the
meat counter.  Little did I know I would someday marry that beekeepers'
son...




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Subject: Re: Queen banking .. how?
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Where are you located Dave?

--Busybee

Dave Hamilton wrote in message <383fe251.398850921@news.usenetserver.com>...
>I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
>try this spring.
>
>However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
>to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.
>
>Can someone explain step - by - step how they do this?
>
>TYIA
>
>Dave
>
>




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From: alvaro 
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I'm in Spain, I have few hives (newcomer), and I have a question to do.
In my country there are many orange trees, but I don't have many places
to put the hives. I would like to know the longest distance from the
orange trees I should put the hives to get a good crop of honey. Does
any body know the mathematical relation between the distance from the
flowers and the production? Any publication about that?
thanks



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Hola Alvaro,
a swedish book I've got says that (under normal circumstances) an area with
a radius of 1,5 kilometres from the hive is optimal, but bees fly up to 3 km
(and even longer) if the nectar source is good.
Doris from Gotland

alvaro  skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:384021F4.6C46D440@accesocero.es...
> I'm in Spain, I have few hives (newcomer), and I have a question to do.
> In my country there are many orange trees, but I don't have many places
> to put the hives. I would like to know the longest distance from the
> orange trees I should put the hives to get a good crop of honey. Does
> any body know the mathematical relation between the distance from the
> flowers and the production? Any publication about that?
> thanks
>




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Thanks for the idea.  I only have the one hive so this will work fine.  My
dogs also help keep unwanted critters away.  Thanks again!!
JMitc1014  wrote in message
news:19991121014343.03890.00000679@ng-fy1.aol.com...
> I had raccoon visitors to one of my sites in eastern Massachusetts.  I
knew it
> was raccoons by the wet paw prints and mud on the landing board (raccoons
love
> water), lack of skunk smell and lack of other indicators of skunk (scat
with
> bee husks, areas in front of hive where bees had been rolled, etc.).
> The worst was when I visited my hives at that site and found the cover had
been
> knocked off one hive.
> I resolved the situation by placing asphalt roof shingles bristling with
nails
> around the front and sides of the 3 hives at that location.
> The shingles are better than boards because it is easier to drive nails
through
> the soft asphault. You can push them through with your fingers, which
requires
> less effort than hammering them through a board. The nails also yield if
you
> accidentally step on one - so the nails don't go through your boot.
> This is a good solution for a hobbyist with a few hives, but impractical
for a
> commercial operator with 30+ hives at a site.




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From: pollinator@aol.comnospam (Dave Green)
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From: alvaro 

>>I'm in Spain, I have few hives (newcomer), and I have a question to do.
>In my country there are many orange trees, but I don't have many places
>to put the hives. I would like to know the longest distance from the
>orange trees I should put the hives to get a good crop of honey. Does
>any body know the mathematical relation between the distance from the
>flowers and the production? Any publication about that?
>thanks

    If the bees foraged randomly in the entire circle around the hive the
resource availability would be in inverse proportion to the square of the
distance.  But bees don't forage randomly; they forage in response to the
communication from the scouts.

   I've found a half mile to be about the maximum for consistant foraging with
large numbers of foragers (some practical observations for pollination).  Oops,
you're in Spain, Alvaro; say about a kilometer.....  ;o)

   You must be way down south.  I've been in Spain (Barcelona, Madrid), and
don't recall seeing orange trees.  Lots of wonderful grapes though...

    Espero que ayudale a usted. (Su ingles mucho mejor que mi espanol).




Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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From: "busybee" 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Queen banking .. how?
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Dave Hamilton wrote in message <383fe251.398850921@news.usenetserver.com>...
>I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
>try this spring.
>
>However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
>to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.
>
>Can someone explain step - by - step how they do this?
>
>TYIA
>
>Dave
>
>
1.  Make your queen bank like you would a finishing colony.
2.  Make your queen candy and let it set overnight.
3.  Fill your cages.
3.  Pick your queens.
4.  Put your picked queens in your finishing colony as you would   your
queen cells.

--Busybee (also took Marla Spivak's class 5 years ago)





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Subject: Re: Queen banking .. how?
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Oh forgot to add to your "how long"...

As long as their are bees on the queens and that the old queen doesn't get
up there.

--Busybee

Dave Hamilton wrote in message <383fe251.398850921@news.usenetserver.com>...
>I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
>try this spring.
>
>However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
>to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.
>
>Can someone explain step - by - step how they do this?
>
>TYIA
>
>Dave
>
>




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Subject: Re: Setting up the new apiary
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From: jmitc1014@aol.com (JMitc1014)

I want to place beehives in two rows, and I want them facing the
>same direction
>because they're on a slope that faces south.
>How far apart do I want to make the rows to avoid excessive drifting between
>the front row and the back?

   I'd say about ten feet; otherwise the front row will catch foragers destined
for the back.   Also paint the hives different colors, and leave a shrub here
and there as markers to help avoid drifting from side to side.  A lot of
beginners paint the hives all white (good way to attract vandals; earth tones
are better), and line them up in neat rows.  The bees wind up in the hives on
the ends of the rows. They swarm and the center ones die out, or are
unproductive.

   You can set two hives alongside each other; bees seem able to distinguish
left and right, but three make a row, and if placed close will lead to the
center one being weak, unless you give the bees some help to mark their own
hive.


Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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Greetings and Salutations,

We are happy to offer 1854 AMERICAN BEE KEEPER'S BOOK by MINER VG for
auction on eBay.  Please view it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=206861070

Thank you in advance.  Michael.
-- 
Thank you and best wishes,
A-ha! Books, Inc.
3 Cedar Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
Phone/FAX:  (607) 257-9200 
e-mail: sales@ahabooks.com
Please Visit Our Home Page and Browse through Our On-Line Catalogues at: http://www.ahabooks.com
We accept Discover, Visa or MasterCard


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From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs)
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Subject: Re: Queen banking .. how?
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hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) wrote:

>I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
>try this spring.  

>However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
>to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.

>Dave

If you are just starting out I would refrain from banking
queens for any lenght of time as they do not perform as well
as a queen that has been laying just before caging.  Your
reputation as a queen breeder will depend on how good your
queens are perceived to be.  A queen that takes a week to
get laying again will not be perceived to be as good as one
that lays up a nice pattern two days after being released.
She will not be accepted as easily either.

Their ain't a whole lot of us out here anymore and your
reputation is everything.  Go to any beekeeping club meeting
and listen to the skuttlebut.  Raise what you can sell and
"bank" your extras in indivigual nucs.  A happy customer
orders over and over and over.  They also tell others to
order from you too.

Greg the beekeep




       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



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Hi gang,
Am looking for a few comments from the peanut gallery 

have tried cheese cloth, paper towels, coffee filters etc..
how do some of you folks filter your last melting of wax ?
meaning after the wax is free of parts etc, just wax with fine particles left



Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC



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Dear David,
      
      Sorry to come in so late but I just found this place. You seem to have
received several good answers to your question about a bee sting on your
temple.  One name I recognize from Apither-L@sci.fi (Apitherapy-L) is John
O'Brien. His advice is excellent and I agree that the Apitherapy list is a
great place to learn many things.

     I am amazed that no one mentioned the number one priority action to take
if you want to minimize the effect of a bee sting. GET THE STINGER OUT!!!  We
all know we should scrape the stinger out with the edge of a knife or credit
card. But during the time it takes to find a scraper, the stinger, (even
without bee attached), is busy burrowing on into our skin and pumping venom
into us. Early this year I read about a test that showed the overwhelming
influencing factor is time. Even when the stingers were removing by pulling
instead of scraping, the effect was lessened if the stinger was removed
quickly. 

     Of course there are many reasons in apitherapy to leave the stinger in
awhile because we want the venom for the treatment (such as for scar tissue as
was mentioned). But for any sting near the eyes, I think the stinger should be
removed as quickly as possible by whatever means is immediately available. 

     Recently I received a sting on my right eyelid and a week later another
near my left eyebrow. Even though I removed both stingers quickly, both caused
swelling that nearly closed the eye and both hurt for a couple of days. These
were stings #148 and #167 for this year so I'm obviously not yet immune to bee
stings, even though most of them have little adverse effect on me.

     Both of those stings were from guard bees. There is a tremendous increase
in potency of their venom, or at least in the effect on us. I wonder if one
factor is that they unload their entire supply of venom in one shot? Common
sense tells us this might be true because it is their job to protect the hive.
Other workers have other primary jobs. Stinging (permanently) interferes with
their primary job so they are understandably reluctant to do it.  Also the
effect of any one sting is influenced by many, many other factors, mostly
uncontrolled factors.

     My advice is to read everything you can about bees, but temper all of it
with your first hand experience. Bee stings are a minor part of the package.
They don't lessen the overall joy and fascination of beekeeping.

          Sincerely,

                    Herb Campbell 



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From: Mark Jensen 
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Re: Filtering techniques for beeswax
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My bees tell me hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) wrote:

>have tried cheese cloth, paper towels, coffee filters etc..
>how do some of you folks filter your last melting of wax ?
>meaning after the wax is free of parts etc, just wax with fine particles left

Restaurant shortening filters made for filtering cooking oil. They are cone shaped and are
supported by specially made cone shaped metal holders.


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Paint filters for straining auto paint going into sprayers. disposable
and cheap anywhere auto enamel is sold.
Thom Bradley
Thom's Honeybees
Chesapeake, VA

Mark Jensen wrote:
> 
> My bees tell me hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) wrote:
> 
> >have tried cheese cloth, paper towels, coffee filters etc..
> >how do some of you folks filter your last melting of wax ?
> >meaning after the wax is free of parts etc, just wax with fine particles left
> 
> Restaurant shortening filters made for filtering cooking oil. They are cone shaped and are
> supported by specially made cone shaped metal holders.


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>how do some of you folks filter your last melting of wax ?

For SUPER clean wax I strain the wax through a piece of sweatshirt material
with the fuzzy side up.

I have tried a lot of different filters but sweatshirt material one is the
best.

Regards,
Ralph Harrison
Western CT Beekeepers Association


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From: hk1beeman@aol.com  (Hk1BeeMan)

>have tried cheese cloth, paper towels, coffee filters etc..
>how do some of you folks filter your last melting of wax ?
>meaning after the wax is free of parts etc, just wax with fine particles left

   We use organdy from a fabric shop for both honey and wax.


Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm


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JMitc1014  skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:19991127113517.21862.00000824@ng-fy1.aol.com...
> Can anyone provide more information about:
> 1) What is an "organic pesticide"? That term sounds like an oxymoron
> (contradicts itself).
Chemically "organic" means any molecules based on carbon. Do they mean
organic acids, such as lactic, oxalic or formic acid?
Doris

 Do you mean bio controls?
> 2) What is the name of the pesticide Bill refers to above?




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From: "optagro" 
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тел./факс (044) 216-7310, 216-3122


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Наш E-mail: optagro@mbox.com.ua

С уважением Андрей Александров





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Subject: Re: Queen banking .. how?
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Nebraska .. really no intention of selling queens just want to make
good increase this year.

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:24:34 -0600, "busybee" 
wrote:

>Where are you located Dave?
>
>--Busybee
>
>Dave Hamilton wrote in message <383fe251.398850921@news.usenetserver.com>...
>>I took Marla Spiviks Queen rearing course and I think I am ready to
>>try this spring.
>>
>>However I get a little foggy after the queens are reared and mated as
>>to how to bank them, for how long .. what to watch for etc.
>>
>>Can someone explain step - by - step how they do this?
>>
>>TYIA
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>
>





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I am looking for information about biologique - dynamique beekeeping. Do you
have some?
Bart Maes




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From: dalwood@prodigy.net (DAWood)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Natural Beekeeping?
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Is there anyone out there, anywhere in the world, that is able to
produce honey without the use of insecticides...'natural' or
otherwise?

It seems that from a quick perusal on Deja and on this group, that
Varroa gets them all in the end without some form of help...but does
anyone seem to be having any luck without medicating?

Are there any resistant strains available anywhere in the world?

This may have been discussed at length, but have patience with me as a
newcomer.  I've lost several hives over the last few years (I'm a
small time hobbyist), and would love to find a way to keep them
without the chemical help.

Anyone?

Doug


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From: fbates@ihug.co.nz (Bates)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
Subject: Observation Hives
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I am considering using red light to illuminate an observation hive. I
believe that bees are not able to 'see' in the red part of the
spectrum, so their behaviour should be less disturbed by red light
than it is currently by 'white' light.
Has anyone any experience or know references to information about what
type of light would be best to use for this? what level of
illumination I should use etc?
Cheers
frank


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DAWood  skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:38434171.3676418@news.prodigy.net...
>
> Is there anyone out there, anywhere in the world, that is able to
> produce honey without the use of insecticides...'natural' or
> otherwise?

One possibility:
Put in a frame without wax. The bees will use it to build drones wax. When
the drones are capped most varroa has gone into it, because they multiply
better there (since drones are capped a longer time than workers). Take out
the frame and 1. cut out the wax cells or
       2.put it in the freezer to kill mite (and drones), When put back the
workers will clean it and contuinue using it.
This is a method that swedish experts call "good but not sufficient". I
guess it means that the bees would survive, but don't produce maximum.
Have you read the article Jorn Johannesson translated from Denmark?
Formic acid mentioned there is a natural ingredient in honey (in small
amounts).
Doris from Gotland


> Are there any resistant strains available anywhere in the world?

I've heard about resistance (or tolerance) in some countries, where
beekeepers haven't interferred with the balance between mites and bees
After that most bees have died, surviving mite and bees find a balance -
which could mean that the bees are tolerant or the mites have become
"nicer" in the area. So it's not certain that you can buy "resistant bees"
from somewhere else, because the mite in your area may not be the same as
they've got.
Doris from Gotland








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Have you read Jorn Johanssens Danish report on this group Nov. 7
and my reply to Dennis Cruthfields (mites control) Nov.21?
There's a reply to DAWoods from Nov.30 too.
I'd be happy to send you more info if you like and I'm sure
Mr Johanssen will too, if you ask him.
Doris from Gotland

> I am looking for information about biologique - dynamique beekeeping. Do
you
> have some?
> Bart Maes







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Subject: Re: Natural Beekeeping?
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dalwood@prodigy.net (DAWood) wrote:


>Is there anyone out there, anywhere in the world, that is able to
>produce honey without the use of insecticides...'natural' or
>otherwise?

>It seems that from a quick perusal on Deja and on this group, that
>Varroa gets them all in the end without some form of help...but does
>anyone seem to be having any luck without medicating?

>Are there any resistant strains available anywhere in the world?

>This may have been discussed at length, but have patience with me as a
>newcomer.  I've lost several hives over the last few years (I'm a
>small time hobbyist), and would love to find a way to keep them
>without the chemical help.

>Anyone?

>Doug

You could move to Hawaii.

Greg the beekeep



       //          Bee Just & Just Bee!        
  =8{ })))-      Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA    
       \\          www.radix.net\~honeybs

              



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  fbates@ihug.co.nz (Bates) wrote:

> Has anyone any experience or know references to information about what
> type of light would be best to use for this? what level of
> illumination I should use etc?
> Cheers
> frank
****************************************
   Howdy Frank,

 I have never had trouble with house lighting for observation
hives. Just install it in a shaded area of the house and let
nature take its course.

         Pete
So much to learn - So little time !
**************************************************


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


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Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22253

Frank,

From twenty years of observation hive experience, we have found that regular
interior lighting  is not a problem at all for the bees. What you have to
worry about is direct sunlight, which will defiantly disrupt the bees and
cause them to propolis or wax up the glass.

Royal W. Draper
Draper's Super Bee Apiaries, Inc.
www.draperbee.com