Re: Dative in John 4:23
Lee R. Martin (lmartin@voyageronline.net)
Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:25:39 -0800
Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
> At 9:04 AM -0600 3/11/97, Mike Adams wrote:
> >
> >At 9:33 AM -0600 3/11/97, Eric Weiss wrote:
> >>Re: Dative in John 4:23
> >>
> >>I.e., does this immediately preceding and contextually-related usage of
> >>EN as a place or perhaps sphere where one is to worship influence the
> >>interpretation of the EN in EN PNEUMATI KAI ALHQEIA?
> >
> >I suppose you mean, Eric, the fact that the preposition EN is used with
> >those place names in 4:20. Quite frankly, I can't see how that is relevant
> >at all, since those are clearly Locative datives whereas EN PNEUMATI KAI
> >ALHQEIAi really MUST be an Instrumental dative.
> >
> >I think Eric has a good question. I think this may be a play on words.
> >Do we worhip EN (location)? She thinking in term of the outward form.
> >He answers we worship EN, (manner), the inward worship of the heart.
> >Couldn't he have used DIA or no preposition at all and to say what
> >he meant. I think he repeated the EN to emphasize the point
> >that it is a matter how not where.
>
> I think this is possible, but I wonder how probable it is; we always have
> these questions when we come to literary constructions like that: did the
> woman and Jesus actually say these things this way? Did they speak Greek?
> Or is this (assuming you're right) John the evangelist's way of saying,
> "it's not WHERE, but HOW you worship." It's just that EN + dative in an
> instrumental sense is common enough that one might well be wary of
> affirming positively that there's a literary device here. On the other
> hand, John does do that sort of thing at points where it appears
> deliberate, as in Jesus telling Nicodemus, EAN MH TIS GENNHQHi ANWQEN,
> where ANWQEN may mean "over again" or "from above"--and one suspects that
> the pun is intentional. So I think it would perhaps be wrong to dismiss the
> possibility out of hand that such a thing is going on with EN in the
> conversation with the Samaritan woman; yet I remain rather skeptical that
> such an intention is present--mildly skeptical!
Dear Friends,
I'm sure that Carl does not need my assistance here, but I think he
correctly identified "in spirit and truth" as instrumental. The
significance, however, would be easier to see if we change the
translation to "with spirit and with genuineness." The resulting
instrumental is very similar to an adverb.
Several other examples may help: Matt.22:16; Mark 12:14; 2Cor 7:14; Phil
1:18; Col 1:6; 1Thess 2:13; 1 John 3:18; 2 John v 1.
--
Lee R. Martin
Adjunct Faculty in Old Testament and Hebrew
Church of God School of Theology
Cleveland, TN 37311
Pastor, Prospect Church of God