(1) Looking at ELAKHSEN I also would have assumed it came from LAKEW, but
Liddle Scott Intermediate lists the Acts 1:18 occurence under LASKW, and
Wigram has LASCW - I assumed, (it appears incorrectly), that the difference
K or C was just one of those differences between c-greek and b-greek. Either
I'm misreading them or I ought to invest in more modern / more accurate
lexica? (Perhaps I should look at the FAQ and find one that isn't going to
lead me astray...)
(2) Not quite knowing what to make of the above, back to the original
question - is there any shred of an alternative to taking MESOS as
nominative noun and equivalent of KOILIA, with ELAKHSEN as a
physical/biological event? (I realise it doesn't have to read hO MESOS AUTOU
to mean *his* midriff, but it would be nice and clearcut if it did). The
straw I am clutching at is that it *could* be a hebraism (cf. "in the midst
of my bowels" Ps22.14) despite Luke being a Gentile.
(3) Not part of the original question but to explain why it was asked; if
the text was only PRHNHS GENOMENOS EXECUQE PANTA TA SPLAGCNA AUTOU wouldn't
there be good reason to at least consider the possibility that it was
referring to the events of Matt27:3 rather than Matt 27:5? Here too I may be
clutching at straws (like EKCEW in Rom5:5 and Jude 11...) but SPLAGCNA is
always figurative elsewhere in NT.
In short - is the literal/physical reading 101% certain?
Cheers
Steven
(PS) Ben - This final point isn't Greek language (so others close your
eyes!) but my intention was not to "debunk the Bible". I think the Matt and
Acts accounts are reconcilable without turning the greek inside out - but I
find the argument that the rope broke and the body was already rotten
(splat!), more convincing than Judas committing seppuku (one doesn't say
hara-kiri in polite company). The above is just asking whether Jerome
(crepuit medius, et diffusa sunt omnia viscera eius) might have just missed
an unusual idiom and a good opportunity for some dynamic equivalence?
At 23:24 97/07/06, Ben Crick wrote:
>On Sun 6 Jul 97 (19:29:32 +0800), Steven scox@ns1.chinaonline.com.cn.net
> wrote:
>>Êis LASCW MESOS in Acts 1:18
>>Ê (a) a medical term (cf "rupture")
>>Ê (b) an idiom (cf "break down")
>>Ê (c) equivalent to LASCW EN MESWi / EIS MESON
>>Ê by abbreviation from LASCW MESOS AUTWN
>
> Well, I'm not a doctor, and I'm not a professor of Greek. But first: it can't
> be LASCW (sic; you mean LASKW?) because ELAKHSEN is from LAKA/W, to burst
> apart, not LASKW, ELAKHSA, to crash.
>
> IMHO it can't be a medical hernia, which is typically caused by excessive
> coughing, or excessive straining at stools due to constipation, or excessive
> heavy manual labour such as lifting and manhandling heavy objects.
>
> I've been told that victims of judicial (or suicidal) hanging defecate
> themselves as their neck breaks. This may have been what befell Judas; is
> EKLASEN MESOS meant to be taken literally or figuratively?
>
> Could MESOS "midriff" be a polite euphemism for the anus or back passage?
> Or could Dr Luke the beloved physician mean that his KOILIA burst open in the
> region of the umbilicus? Children sometimes get a paraumbilical or an
> epigastric hernia; but not adults, who suffer inguinal or femoral hernias.
>
> MESOS is an adjective which agrees in gender, number and case with the noun
> it qualifies. It can stand on its own as an adjectival noun; maybe this is
> what we have here. hOUTOS is the subject of the verb EKTHSATO "acquired
> purchase of"; MESOS could be the subject of the verb ELAKHSEN, "[his] midriff
> burst". The personal pronoun is redundant with parts of the body; we're not
> talking about someone else's midriff.
>
> The neuter form MESON appears used an an adverb, notably in the Luke 23:45
> passage that you quote (the veil of the Temple torn "in the midst"). Here
> MESON could not be the subject of the verb ESCISQE.
>
> There is no MSS evidence for MESON as opposed to MESOS in the text of Acts
> 1:18. PRHNHS GENOMENOS means "having fallen forward"; not "falling headlong".
> Judas' MESOS, having distended forwards, burst open? Did the suicidal Judas
> commit hara kiri, and slash his abdomen before jumping? Matthew 27:5 simply
> says KAI APELQWN APHGXATO.
>
> The death of Judas is a well-known target of Bible debunkers.
>
> What do others think?
>--
>ÊRevd Ben Crick, BA Bristol, 1963 (hons in Theology)
>Ê<ben.crick@argonet.co.uk>
> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK)
>Ê
>
>
>
>