Re: Permissive Subj. in Acts 7:34B

Jonathan Robie (jwrobie@mindspring.com)
Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:44:37 -0400

At 02:03 PM 10/14/97 +0000, Clayton Bartholomew wrote:
>Jonathan Wrote:
>>>>>>>
>The "Permissive Subjunctive" can generally be translated "let us",
>but it is a command, not a request.
>>>>>>>>
>
>If this is the case, then what can be made of the following quote
>from BDF 364(1)?

Can of worms alert! Watch out for what follows...

>> > BDF states ". . . in the first
>> >person singular . . . an invitation is extended to another to
>> >permit the speaker to do something."

Well, my BDR, which is the current German edition of the Blass grammar, says
this:

BDR 364(1): In etwas andere Weise auch in der 1. Sgl., indem an den anderen
die Aufforderung ergeht, den Redenden etwas tun zu lassen, klass. mit AGE,
FERE, auch DEURO (Pl. DEUTE), im NT nur mit AFES und DEURW, zB Mt 7,4 = Lk
6,42 AFES EKBALW TO KARFOS.

Now the interesting thing about this is that the word "invitation" in your
quote is the German word Aufforderung, which can mean an invitation, a
request, or a demand, depending on the context. For instance, you can get an
Aufforderung to show up in court, which is not really optional, or an
Aufforderung to dance with someone, which you could turn down without legal
consequences. So which meaning is intended? Or does this have the same range?

The first person singular hortatory subjunctive (remember that phrase for
word games!) only occurs five times in the Greek New Testament:

Matt 7:4 AFES EKBALW TO KARFOS EK TOU OFQALMOU SOU
Luke 6:42 ADELFE, AFES EKBALW TO KARFOS TO EN TW OFQALMW SOU

Most translations treat this as polite request: "Let me take that speck out
of your eye". No translation says, "Step aside, I'm gonna take that speck
out of your eye, buddy!"

Acts 7:34 KAI NUN DEURO APOSTEILW SE EIS AIGUPTON.

The translations say something like "Come, I will send you", which could be
either the declarative future Carl suggests or a first person singular
imperative, as Robertson says. In fact, I don't see a big semantic
difference between the two - is there really a difference?

Rev 17:1 DEURO, DEIXW SOI TO KRIMA THS PORNHS THS MEGALHS THS KAQHMENHS EPI
hUDATWN POLLWN.
Rev 21:9 DEURO, DEIXW SOI THN NUMFHN THN GUNAIKA TOU ARNIOU.

The translations say something like "Come, I will show you", which could be
either the declarative future Carl suggests or a first person singular
imperative, as Robertson says. Again, is there really a significant semantic
difference?

I wish we had more examples. Based on just these five examples, it would be
plausible to argue either that (1) the meaning when used with AFES is
different from the meaning with DEURO, or (2) AFES EKBALW in Matt 7:4 and
Luke 6:42 really isn't a polite request.

>I am all ears.

Me too.

Jonathan

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