Re: Dative
Mike & Ellen Adams (adtech@sprynet.com)
Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:10:49 -0700
>
> >. . . At some point early in the
> >learning of Greek one needs to become familiar with the Dative of
> >Possession: one can make a stopgap translation of EMOI ESTI BIBLION as
> >"there is to me a book." EMOI is unquestionably a "true" dative here,
but
> >it is not an indirect object and "there is to me a book" is not normal
> >English; one needs to learn that this means "I have a book."
>
> I would like to second Carl's comment about this possessive use of the
> dative. It is actually more common in the New Testament than many
students
> think. It is the standard way of asking someone's name and responding to
> such a question. In Mk 5:9 Jesus asks: TI ONOMA SOI; (What is your
name?),
> and the demon responds: LEGIWN ONOMA MOI (My name is Legion). The datives
> here are not unusual. They conform very naturally to the pattern of usage
> which Carl has described.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Micheal W. Palmer mwpalmer@earthlink.net
> Religion & Philosophy
> Meredith College
As a total amateur, may I throw in my two cents worth?
In trying to understand the basics of the case system, I came up with my
own definitions, which worked for me.
Nominative and Accusative: are directly involved in the action of the verb.
Genitive (Ablative), are descriptive: type, source, etc.
Dative (Locative, Instrumental) Indirect involvement with the action of the
verb:
advantage, means, etc.
I have managed to contort most examples to fit these very basic categories.
Like Micheal Palmer, I prefer a five case system. In the eight case system,
one can get rather frustrated when words don't neatly fit their pattern. We
end up with further splitting of hairs, dative of advantage, dative of
possession....etc.
Jonathan's goal here, as I understand it, is to present the cases in a
simple enough way for the beginner to grasp, while creating a foundation
solid enough to be built upon, and a foundation that would not haveto be
scrapped once the student progresses.
Would this work???
Ellen