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b-greek-digest V1 #625
b-greek-digest Wednesday, 22 March 1995 Volume 01 : Number 625
In this issue:
Re: Faith of Christ.
Re: Faith of Christ.
Please Post
Re: Jesus and Pharisees
pistis jesou
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Micheal Palmer <mpalmes@email.unc.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:19:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Faith of Christ.
On Tue, 21 Mar 1995 JefferisP@aol.com wrote:
> RE:
> pistis jesou christou
>
> of Galatians 3:22 (cf. 2:16, 3:1-4:11)
>
> Richard B. Hays, The Faith of Jesus Christ. An investigation of the Narrative
> Structure of Galatians 3:1- 4:11, Scholars Press 1983.
>
> Hays argues that this phrase is a subjective genitive, meaning that it
> describes the faith(fulness) of Jesus Christ - not our faith in Jesus Christ-
> which justifies us and makes us whole.
>
> [MAJOR DELETION]
>
> How likely is this reading? Comments.
Hays' reading is consistent with Greek syntax. It has one distinct
advantage over the traditional reading: the only support for the
traditional reading (translating the genitive IHSOU CRISTOU as "in Christ
Jesus" rather than "of Christ Jesus") is the very passages in question. In
other words, the reasoning behind the traditional reading is completely
circular: --We know that CRISTOU can mean "in Christ" because it does in
this text, and we know that "in Christ" is a possible reading in this
text since we have decided that CRISTOU can mean "in Christ". Hays'
reading eliminates this circularity by handling the genitive in a much
more established way.
A few years ago there was a major debate about the same problem
(translation of PISTEWS IHSOU CHRISTOU) in Romans.
Micheal W. Palmer
Mellon Research Fellow
Department of Linguistics
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
------------------------------
From: Gary Meadors <gmeadors@epix.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:02:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Faith of Christ.
On Tue, 21 Mar 1995 JefferisP@aol.com wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> RE:
> pistis jesou christou
>
> of Galatians 3:22 (cf. 2:16, 3:1-4:11)
>
> Richard B. Hays, The Faith of Jesus Christ. An investigation of the Narrative
> Structure of Galatians 3:1- 4:11, Scholars Press 1983.
>
> Hays argues that this phrase is a subjective genitive, meaning that it
> describes the faith(fulness) of Jesus Christ - not our faith in Jesus Christ-
> which justifies us and makes us whole. His argument is essentially that
> Jesus Christ is a Champion, doing for us what we could not do for ourselves,
> which is believe and trust in his Father perfectly. His perfect faith and
> trust in the Father was something we could not achieve in our strength or
> natural ability. But as our representative, he did for us what we could not
> do for ourselves.
>
> Then, by acknowledging his righteousness and faithfulness, HIS faith is
> imparted to us as a gift. He also refers to Hab. 2:4 as a messianic text from
> the mindset of the day, the ho diakaios (the Righteous ONE) will live by his
> faithfulness. Therefore by his Faith, Jesus becomes the messiah.
>
> The advantage of this reading is that it makes Christ's work and faith the
> center of our Faith, and reduces the human tendency to try and justify
> ourselves through OUR faith, having enough faith, or more faith, etc. In
> other words, faith becomes Christocentric and not a humanistic focus.
>
> How likely is this reading? Comme>
> Jefferis Kent Peterson
> Center For Biblical Literacy
The Romans seminar at SBL provided a debate on the obj/subj IX. The
articles by Hays and Dunn are included in the 1991 SBL Seminar Papers
volume. Response articles by Achtemeier et. al. were also interesting
but were not published (to my knowledge).
------------------------------
From: Eric Dahlin <hcf1dahl@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 13:03:23 PST
Subject: Please Post
ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTERS AND THE HUMANITIES
ASSOCIATION FOR LITERARY AND LINGUISTIC COMPUTING
1995 JOINT INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ACH-ALLC 95
JULY 11-15, 1995
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT SANTA BARBARA, SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA
************************************************************************
IMPORTANT CONFERENCE INFORMATION *** IMPORTANT CONFERENCE INFORMATION
************************************************************************
Those of you who have submitted abstracts for this year's ACH/ALLC
Joint International Conference will be aware that the announced date
for notifying applicants was March 15, 1995. Due to unforeseen
circumstances, however, we are obliged to move the this date ahead to
APRIL 20, 1995.
The Association for Computers and the Humanities, as primary organizer
of this year's conference, apologizes for the delay. We understand
that some potential contributors to the conference program may need
to be notified earlier than April 20, in order to secure travel funds,
etc. If for such a reason you must know as soon as possible, we ask
that you contact hcf1dahl@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu so that we may expedite the
processing of your abstract. Please do not contact us unless
your need is serious.
We received a strong response to this year's call for papers, and we
have every expectation that the conference program will be
excellent. I look forward to seeing you in Santa Barbara this summer,
and thank you for your patience and understanding.
Nancy Ide, President
Association for Computers and the Humanities
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:10:31 CST
Subject: Re: Jesus and Pharisees
On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Carl W Conrad wrote in reponse to David Moore and Everett
R. Oakley:
>I think it would also be
>reasonable to understand MESOS HUMWN not so literally but more broadly
>(one tends to get into trouble when taking John's text overliterally,
>don't you think?): "here, in Judea, in Palestine, among the pilgrims who
>have come to John for baptism."
Carl--
I agree that we often try to make the Bible fit into a literal mold that we
would not want our own language forced into, and we protest mightily when
someone tries to make our statements say something that we had no intention of
saying.
On the other hand, John does present Jesus as being there the next day (v.
29).
This sent me back to BAG to look up MESOS. It looks to me like the expression
"X MESOS Y" is rarely used when X is a member of the set Y where X and Y are
human. Acts 1:15 where Peter stands up in the midst of the brothers is
perhaps an exception. But usually the one in the midst of the group does not
belong to the group. Perhaps that sheds some light on the original question
as to whether Jesus was a Pharisee.
- --Bruce
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: WINBROW@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:58:23 -0500
Subject: pistis jesou
Gary Meadors question concerning pistis jesou christou
Dear All,
of Galatians 3:22 (cf. 2:16, 3:1-4:11)
The thesis of Richard B. Hayes concerning the meaning of pistis jesou
christou is very interesting but not without some problems. Other texts that
are certain Pauline texts would appear to have christou and/or jesou as the
objective genitive. Romans 3:22 speaks of the righteiouness of God dia
pisteos jesou christou for every one who believes--believes what or in whom?
The act of believing for Paul seems to be more a commitment to the risen
Lord than a matter of believing in.
Romans 3:26 presents God as the one who is both just and the one who
justifies ton ek pisteos jesou, "one (who is) by faith of Jesus." That
structure seems best taken with Jesus as object. In Galatians 2:16 there is
the statement, "and that we have believed eis christon jesoun, in order that
we might be justified ek pisteos christou and not by works of law, for by
works of law no flesh will be justified." The clear statement using the
aorist verb, "we ourselves have believed unto Christ Jesus" does not seem to
leave room to interpret the following prepositional phrase as subjective
genitive. The contrast is between those who seek to be justified by works of
the law as over against the Pauline way of trusting in Christ.
The primary verse in Hayes' thesis (3:22) also is difficult to interpret that
way. The subject of what was given (dothei) is the promise not ek pisteos
jesou. and it is given to those who believe (in Christ the risen Lord). In
Paul this relationship seems much more the result of an unconditional
commitment to his lordship. The same would be true of Phil. 3:9 though the
righteousness by faith is also said to the "from God."
Carlton Winbery
Lousiana College
WINBROW@AOL.COM
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #625
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