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b-greek-digest V1 #755
b-greek-digest Saturday, 17 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 755
In this issue:
Re: "God's Word" - Acts 7:55
1 Co 16:13
RE:The Christ Hymn (Feinberg)
Re: 1 Co 16:13
RE:The Christ Hymn (Feinberg)
Made-up Greek sentences
Re: Made-up Greek sentences
thanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: LISATIA@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 02:03:54 -0400
Subject: Re: "God's Word" - Acts 7:55
dear George,
with regard to the translators' dilemma between a paraphrase (with
meaning supplied) and a "wooden" post, there is the third possibility of
maintaining a symbolic expression, but not exactly the symbolic expression of
the author.
best wishes
lisatia@aol.com(richard arthur, NH)
------------------------------
From: "L. Brown" <budman@sedona.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:05:45 700
Subject: 1 Co 16:13
What significance might there be to the fact that the four
imperatives in this verse move from active to passive? Specifically I
am interested in your understanding of the passive voice of
"krataiousthe"; might this be a veiled reference to one's need of
spiritual power from a source outside one's self?
And is there any reflexive nuance to the middle voice of
"andrizomai" in this verse? Or do you see this a deponent verb being
used in an active sense?
Any insight this group might lend would be appreciated. I should have
posted this question last Tuesday when it first came to me during the
preparation of my Father's Day sermon!
In His Service,
=====================================================
L. E. Brown budman@sedona.net
West Sedona Baptist Church
Sedona, Arizona 520-282-7478
- -----------------------------------------------------
Recursion: See Recursion
=====================================================
------------------------------
From: Yirah@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:18:41 -0400
Subject: RE:The Christ Hymn (Feinberg)
For my contribution to the discussion at hand, I offer the following
distilled essence of Feinberg's article on the hymn in Phil. 2. The
bibliographic details are:
Paul Feinburg, "The Kenosis and Christology: An Exegetical-Theological
Analysis of Phil. 2:6-11," _Trinity Journal_ (1980): 21-46
Of course, he says a lot more than what I can presently offer, but perhaps
the article will give a different slant on this passage than what others may
and will prompt others to get the article. BTW, in the orginal post on this,
Prof Conrad made mention of a book entitled _Carmen Cristi_ but did not know
the author--the author is Ralph Philip Martin.
In this summary, no doubt, there will be redundancies of what has already
appeared. I apologize in advance.
Although Feinberg spends some time on the Wisdom and Structual approaches to
this hymn, most of the space is dedicated to the most common approach among
modern scholars--the Adam/Christ or 1st Adam/2nd Adam typologies. Feinburg
summarizes the most common arguments for this position as such:
(1) The Adam/Christ imagery is in keeping with other Pauline texts, most
notibly Rom 5:12-21; 1 Cor 15:21-22; 45-49; 2 Cor 4:4 and Col 1:15.
(2) The phrase en morphe theou is an allusion to Gen 1:26-27. Both Adam and
Christ are said to be in the "image of God."
(3) The 1st Adam sought to seize equality with God (Gen 3:5-7) and for his
sin he found judgement. The 2nd Adam (Christ) did not think this equality was
something to be siezed or snatched. Rather, Jesus embraced humility and his
creatureliness by emptying himself of the aspirations to be God. Therefore,
he accepted his position as an obedient servant.
(4) What Adam lost by snatching, Christ gained by serving. In being the man
God wanted Jesus to be, God exalted him.
Feinburg's analysis of this is as follows:
(1) The meaning of morphe. Since the Jews were steeped in the OT, Feinberg
correctly states that the meaning of morphe should be gleaned from the LXX
and not classical or Hellenistic Greek literature. Morphe is found in the LXX
4 times, each time it translates a different word (Jdg 8:18; Job 4:16; Isa
44:13; Dan 3:19). Strimple (_Phil 2:5-11 in Recent Studies_) concluded that
in each case the idea is "visible form." In further support of this, Aquila's
translation used morphe to translate to)ar (appearance or form) in Isa 52:14;
53:2.
(2) Morphe, in Phil, needs to be translated in light of to einai isa theou
and morthen doulou. "Equality with God" is a *strong* statement of diety
especially if it is *already" possessed. If it is just an external
appearance, then it approaches docetism.
(3) The meaning of ouch harpagmon hegesato. Is harpagmos active (robbery,
usurpation) or passive (something to be seized) here? Feinberg spends a few
pages talking about the problems of both, and concludes that it is neither!
(4) Feinberg agrees with Lightfoot, Jaeger, Hoover and Glasson that the
expression ouch harpagmon hegesato is an idomatic expression, therefore it is
incorrect to focus in on the dictionary meaning of any one word in the
phrase. He gives the following in support of this position:
(a) when harpama occurs as a predicate accusative with the verbs nomizein,
hegeisthai, poieisthai and thithesthai, it is an idiomatic expression.
Feinberg agrees with the translation offered by Hoover--"he did not regard
being equal with God as something to take advantage of" or "as something to
use for his own advantage."
(b) When harpagma and harpagmos occur as predicate accusatives they have a
different sense than what is "normal" (Hoover _The Harpagmos Enigma_ 118)
(c) harpagma and harpagmos are used interchangably.
(d) This interpretation demands that to einai isa theo was something Jesus
*already possessed*, therefore Paul teaches an eternally existent Christ in
this passage. Hoover: "In every instance which I have examined this idiomatic
expression refers to something already present and at one's disposal."
(e) Feinberg deals with the objection that the above data comes from Greek
and Hellenistic literature and not the LXX. The answer, he says, is simple:
the idiomatic expression does not occur in the LXX.
What does the Christ Hymn in Phil mean?
(1) Feinberg offers that Adam is not in the background of this hymn but the
Servant Songs of Isa (43:13-53:12). Reasons: (a) The similarity of theme and
treatment--voluntary humility followed by exaltation which is a consequence
or recompense of that humiliation. (b) Feinberg lists 8 verbal similarities
between Phil and the Servant Songs. (c) The Phil hymn ends with a quote from
Isa 45:23.
(2) What does "He emptied Himself" mean? Ekenosen can be used in a
metaphorical (he made himself nothing) or metaphysical (he empied himself)
sense. Feinberg recognizes that it is difficult to determine with any
certitude which sense Paul meant, but he opts for the latter as more
preferable.
How did he empty himself? The two participial phrases that follow modify
ekenosen: (a) morphen doulou labon gives the manner of Christ's
self-emptying: He became a slave who was powerless, deprived of rights, whose
life was not His own. (b) en hommoiomati anthropon genomenos shows the manner
in which he did it--he became a man. (c) 2:7c and 8 shows the extent--to
death on a cross.
What is the nature of the exaltation--a reward or grace? Feinberg: "dio kai
demands that God's action is prompted by Christ's actions." Therefore, it is
a reward for his life being dependent on the Holy Spirit and especially in
his obedience of his voluntary sacrifice on the cross.
He is highly exalted. Feinberg sees that Jesus' exaltation came (will come)
in stages or aspects: God exalted Christ by raising Him from the grave; God
exalted Christ in the ascension; God is exalting Christ in the present by
giving Him a somewhat "hidden rule"; God will exalt Christ when He returns in
power and glory to set up the Eternal Kingdom.
There's a lot more, but Feingberg concludes with the following summary:
(1) Phil 2:6-11 precludes any variation of an adoptionalist christology. He
agrees with Fuller: "that the attempts which have been made to eliminate
pre-existence entirely from this passage...must be pronounced as a failure."
(2) The kenosis consisted in the surrender of Christ's position, not his
powers or perogatives.
(3) The kenosis involved the assumption of genuine humanity by Christ.
(4) The kenosis included the veiling of the pre-incarnate glory of the Son
(5) The kenosis involved the voluntary non-use of Jesus' divine attributes.
"The emptying of the savior consisted, not in subtraction, but in the
addition of true humanity."
(6) the kenosis required that Jesus depend on the Holy Spirit
(7) The kenosis resulted in the exaltation of Jesus to the superlative
position.
Hope it helps,
William Brooks
Pastor in waiting
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:16:45 CST
Subject: Re: 1 Co 16:13
On Fri, 16 Jun 1995, L. E. Brown wrote:
>What significance might there be to the fact that the four
>imperatives in this verse move from active to passive? Specifically I
>am interested in your understanding of the passive voice of
>"krataiousthe"; might this be a veiled reference to one's need of
>spiritual power from a source outside one's self?
Perhaps, although I can't tell from the form whether this is the passive "be
strengthened" or the middle "strengthen yourselves."
>And is there any reflexive nuance to the middle voice of
>"andrizomai" in this verse? Or do you see this a deponent verb being
>used in an active sense?
Probably deponent, although that does not mean that it doesn't have reflexive
nuance. I have noticed that a number of deponent verbs seem to have an
inherent reflexive sense.
>Any insight this group might lend would be appreciated. I should have
>posted this question last Tuesday when it first came to me during the
>preparation of my Father's Day sermon!
I would emphasize that all of these verbs are present tense, implying
continous action.
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Gregory Jordan (ENG)" <jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:50:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE:The Christ Hymn (Feinberg)
I'm stepping into the middle of a thread here, since I've been off the
list for a week (maybe I got bumped off for my last post on porneia).
Would anyone like to fill me in on what I missed, if it was directed to me?
In the meantime I just thought I'd comment aloud on this useful summary of
Feinberg's argument.
> (1) The meaning of morphe. Since the Jews were steeped in the OT, Feinberg
> correctly states that the meaning of morphe should be gleaned from the LXX
> and not classical or Hellenistic Greek literature. Morphe is found in the LXX
> 4 times, each time it translates a different word (Jdg 8:18; Job 4:16; Isa
> 44:13; Dan 3:19). Strimple (_Phil 2:5-11 in Recent Studies_) concluded that
> in each case the idea is "visible form." In further support of this, Aquila's
> translation used morphe to translate to)ar (appearance or form) in Isa 52:14;
> 53:2.
I think this is heading in the wrong direction. What is God's visible
form? And it strengthens the improbable Docetic reading, because one
would then be tempted to assume visible similarity for "en homoiOmati
anthrOpOn" etc. - did Jesus just "look like" a human? Paul's context
argues against this as well: he is talking about human attitudes ("touto
phroneite!") and Jesus's attitudes. I don't think a physico-essential
Christology would be probable here. It's not *what* Jesus was but *how*
he was that is at issue here, I think.
> (2) Morphe, in Phil, needs to be translated in light of to einai isa theou
> and morthen doulou. "Equality with God" is a *strong* statement of diety
> especially if it is *already" possessed. If it is just an external
> appearance, then it approaches docetism.
No, "theos On" would be a strong statement. To me the argument is
running as Jesus's rejection of divinity for himself, and the danger of
"snatching" God's unique divinity for any person. One can compare the
relevant "isos" passage in John's gospel.
> (2) What does "He emptied Himself" mean? Ekenosen can be used in a
> metaphorical (he made himself nothing) or metaphysical (he empied himself)
> sense. Feinberg recognizes that it is difficult to determine with any
> certitude which sense Paul meant, but he opts for the latter as more
> preferable.
Does Feinberg notice the pun on "kenodoksian" in 2:3? The "emptying," it
seems to me, is emptying of arrogance and audacity, the same feelings and
attitudes Paul's audience were in danger of displaying.
> How did he empty himself? The two participial phrases that follow modify
> ekenosen: (a) morphen doulou labon gives the manner of Christ's
> self-emptying: He became a slave who was powerless, deprived of rights, whose
> life was not His own. (b) en hommoiomati anthropon genomenos shows the manner
> in which he did it--he became a man. (c) 2:7c and 8 shows the extent--to
> death on a cross.
Again, (b) does not show Jesus becoming a man, but rather being in the
form of human beings - I would say that this is referring to humans'
natural position of servitude vis-a-vis God. The main reference is still
to attitude, not being. Genomenos does not usually refer to birth, so we
are not getting an incarnationist explanation here.
> (1) Phil 2:6-11 precludes any variation of an adoptionalist christology. He
> agrees with Fuller: "that the attempts which have been made to eliminate
> pre-existence entirely from this passage...must be pronounced as a failure."
I happen to believe Paul, in line with other NT writers, thought of Jesus
as pre-existing. But I don't think this passage is the place to find it.
> (5) The kenosis involved the voluntary non-use of Jesus' divine attributes.
> "The emptying of the savior consisted, not in subtraction, but in the
> addition of true humanity."
This is just plain contradictory. I suppose that's the "theological"
part of his exegesis.
What does everyone else think?
Greg Jordan
jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu
------------------------------
From: Bill Mounce <billm@teknia.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:11:16 -0700
Subject: Made-up Greek sentences
Zondervan has been getting lots of requests for me to include madeup
sentences in my workbook. They may even come out with a second edition of
the workbook before the second edition of the text.
I have got some, but the problem with one person doing these kinds of
sentences is that they all tend to sound the same. I heard someone once say
that Machen's sentences tend to have someone "going out to the desert with
the angels." And considering the fact (I think) that his sentences are
quite good compared to other grammars, it highlights the difficulty of
doing this kind of thing.
So my question is, have you or any of your colleagues made up a bunch of
sentences? I would like to collect all that are there, put them up on the
Internet, and then if I have permission to use them as well as my stuff in
the workbook.
Thanks.
Bill Mounce
- -------------------------------
Teknia Software, Inc.
1306 W. Bellwood Drive
Spokane, WA 99218-2911
Internet: billm@teknia.com
AOL: Teknia
CIS: 71540,2140
"It may be Greek to you, but it is life to me."
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 18:57:09 CST
Subject: Re: Made-up Greek sentences
On Fri, 16 Jun 1995, Bill Mounce wrote:
>Zondervan has been getting lots of requests for me to include madeup
>sentences in my workbook.
Bill--
Instead of making up sentences, why don't you take actual sentences from the
New Testament and simplify them where necessary to include only those
grammatical features to which the student has to date been introduced?
Weingreen does this for his Hebrew grammar; when I took Hebrew I appreciated
the fact that working with his sentences sounded like I was reading the Old
Testament. This would probably increase motivation for Greek students. The
main problem with first year Greek is the amount of material that has to be
learned before students begin to read the New Testament and thus appreciate
why they are having to learn the things they are studying.
- --Bruce
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: willard <WILLARD@univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 20:25:49 EDT
Subject: thanks
Last Wed. & Thur. I recieved no mail on this listserv, I knew this was not
right so I quickly resubscribed. Thanks to everyone who helped me out. As soon
as you read this I will unsubscribe. Gone for a week of working for Habitat for
Humanity. Thanks again!
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #755
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