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b-greek-digest V1 #805
b-greek-digest Sunday, 30 July 1995 Volume 01 : Number 805
In this issue:
Re: lang. of Jesus
Re: lang. of Jesus
Events of Resurrection Sunday
Moule's Idiom Book
Re: Moule's Idiom Book
Re: pais=homosexual lover?
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From: Shaughn Daniel <zxmli05@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 12:21:24 +0000
Subject: Re: lang. of Jesus
While not pertaining especially to the language(s) of Jesus, I think it may
be of interest to some to spark a thought from modern phenomenon. When I
came to Germany in 1992, and have lived here since in the theological
turmoil of dissertation writing, I am reminded of many cultural adaptations
that I had to take on because of the German language. One of those
adaptations was the way I thought about christianities in comparison with
the Germans. Without fail, I'm always asked here by Germans (and most of
them have never studied theology) whether I'm "Evangelisch" or
"Katholisch", as if these were the ONLY two options available (I would say
that this has happened more than 100 times since 1992). My American Baptist
background has very little chance to come to the forefront due to the
dominance of these TWO ways in Germany. So, I'm wondering, if I begin to
use the German religious distinction of EITHER "Evangelisch" (Lutheran) OR
"Katholisch", then have I taken up the cultural/linguistic traditions of
the Germans in this area? Further, what am I doing
culturally/linguistically when I tell someone this? -- "Meine Eltern sind
Baptisten. Mein Doktorvater hier in Tuebingen ist Evangelisch (Martin
Hengel). Mein Doktorvater in Schottland ist Methodist (I.Howard Marshall).
Meine Verlobte ist Katholisch. So, demzufolge, ich glaube, ich bin Christ."
There are probably many other areas which I've not thought about, but this
seems to persistently occur in my German experiences.
Sincerely,
Shaughn Daniel
Tuebingen, Germany
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
| Shaughn Daniel zxmli05@student.uni-tuebingen.de |\
| Tuebingen, Germany | |
| ~~~~~ | |
| I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally | |
| walk through into another dimension.---Steven Wright | |
*---------------------------------------------------------------* |
\_______________________________________________________________\|
------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 07:07:58 -0500
Subject: Re: lang. of Jesus
At 7:21 AM 7/29/95, Shaughn Daniel wrote:
>While not pertaining especially to the language(s) of Jesus, I think it may
>be of interest to some to spark a thought from modern phenomenon.
> ... My American Baptist
>background has very little chance to come to the forefront due to the
>dominance of these TWO ways in Germany. So, I'm wondering, if I begin to
>use the German religious distinction of EITHER "Evangelisch" (Lutheran) OR
>"Katholisch", then have I taken up the cultural/linguistic traditions of
>the Germans in this area? Further, what am I doing
>culturally/linguistically when I tell someone this? -- "Meine Eltern sind
>Baptisten. Mein Doktorvater hier in Tuebingen ist Evangelisch (Martin
>Hengel). Mein Doktorvater in Schottland ist Methodist (I.Howard Marshall).
>Meine Verlobte ist Katholisch. So, demzufolge, ich glaube, ich bin Christ."
>There are probably many other areas which I've not thought about, but this
>seems to persistently occur in my German experiences.
Wenn Sie aber Englisch sprechen, so duerfen Sie doch nicht--in den
Vereinigten Staaten, auf alle Faelle-- "I am Christ" sagen!
This reminds me of a joke I heard long ago that I make use of when talking
about the opening of 1 Corinthians:
A fellow drives into a small town in the southern U.S. on a Sunday morning
and stops to ask a man on the sidewalk where he can find a Church of Christ
in this town. The man on the sidewalk scratches his head as he ponders the
question for a long time, then says, "Well, now -- there's a Presbyterian
church at the red light two blocks straight ahead--that's Dave Johnson's
church; then there's Al Jones' church about a mile up the road, but I don't
think Christ has a church here!"
My apologies for continuing an off-list-subject-matter topic.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:26:25 CST
Subject: Events of Resurrection Sunday
I would appreciate comments and criticisms about the following attempt at
reconciling the four gospel accounts of resurrection Sunday, *assuming* the
historicity of those four accounts. Thanks!
EVENTS OF RESURRECTION SUNDAY
1. An angel comes & rolls back the stone from the tomb (Mt. 28:2).
2. Mary Magdalene comes before dawn while it is still dark (Jn. 20:1)
and finds the stone rolled away.
3. Other women come at or after sunrise (Mk. 16:2; Lk. 24:1).
4. Mary Magdalene leaves to tell the apostles (Jn. 20:2).
She apparently does not know about the angels.
4a. At some point Peter and John start for the tomb; Mary follows.
5. Angels (young men) appear to the other women (Mk. 16:5; Lk. 24:4).
6. The women leave (Mt. 28:8; Mk. 16:8; Lk. 24:9).
Some say nothing out of fear (Mk. 16:8).
7. Peter and John arrive at the tomb and find it empty (Lk. 24:12; Jn. 20:3-9).
8. Some women report the vision of angels to the disciples (Lk. 24:24).
9. Peter and John go home (Jn. 20:10) and report findings (Lk. 24:24).
10. Mary Magdalene stays and sees Jesus (Jn. 20:11-17; Mk. 16:9).
11. Cleopas and his companion leave (Lk. 24:13-14).
12. Jesus appears to women (apparently the ones who did not tell)(Mt. 28:9-10).
Women, including Mary Magdalene, go to tell the disciples about the risen
Lord (Mt. 28:11; Mk. 16:10-11; Jn. 20:18).
The order of thirteen and fourteen is uncertain.
13. Jesus appears to Peter, who reports it to the disciples (Lk. 24:34).
14. Jesus appears to Cleopas and companion (Lk. 24:15-32; Mk. 16:12)
15. They return to Jerusalem to report it to the disciples (Lk. 24:33) but are
not believed (Mk. 16:13).
16. Jesus appears to the disciples in a locked room that evening (Mk. 16:14-18;
Lk. 24:36-43; Jn. 20:19-23).
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Edward Hobbs <EHOBBS@wellesley.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:53:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Moule's Idiom Book
James Kuiper asks about Moule's Idiom Book. I published a review of it
when it first came out in 1953 (I've been teaching Greek since 1947), and
consulted it from time to time, especially while preparing my own
TRANSFORMATIONAL-GENERATIVE GRAMMAR OF HELLENISTIC GREEK back in the
1970's. But while it has good things in it, it is really much more
like what any seasoned Greek scholar might write without being too
systematic or exhaustive; it has his thoughts about those things he
has thought about (very sensible, too), but in no way covers the
field. It's an "extra" worth dipping into; but not a basic grammar.
(On the other hand, there are almost none of those worth using, when
it comes to Hellenistic Greek. Plenty of textbooks, of course, some
by contributors to this List, whose books are high quality indeed.)
What we need is a Hellenistic (or even just NT) equivalent
of Smyth-Messing. And just that is probably under way to being
prepared, by an outstanding group of young scholars, some of whom
(again!) are on this very List. But I suspect that is years away.
The problem with Blass-Debrunner of course is that is presumes you
already know Classical Greek, as the people it was written for did.
(And for people like me, who only studied Classical Greek, and
learned Hellenistic, then later NT, by reading thick, verbose
grammars (like Robertson), over-concise ones (like Debrunner),
and really bad ones (like Dana-Mantey), but above all by reading tons
of Greek texts. I suspect Carl did it the same way.
Edward Hobbs
------------------------------
From: Larry Swain <lswain@wln.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Moule's Idiom Book
THough I am no where near the neighborhood of Carl or Edward, I too
learned classical (thank heaven!) and really am disappointed at the
treatment Hellenistic Greek has received in the field. Sigh. Hopefully
that will soon be rectified.
Larry Swain
Parmly Billings LIbrary
lswain@wln.com
------------------------------
From: "Gregory Jordan (ENG)" <jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 23:27:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: pais=homosexual lover?
Greg Hahn,
You might try the unabridged Liddell and Scott, or Dover's _Greek
Homosexuality_. I understand that the term was certainly known by patristic
Greek authors.
Greg Jordan
jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #805
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